DragBoss Garage: Pick Up 30 Ft. Lbs. Of Torque Filling The Port Floors Of 351 Cleveland 4 BBL Heads
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- This video goes over the modification on how to pick up 30+ Ft. Lbs of Torque, with your Ford 351 Cleveland Heads. The results can be more or less depending on the combination of the engine. The information was given to me from Darin Morgan, so you know it is right on the money. This modification makes the port size similar to the 3v size, of say CHI, and other aftermarket heads.
This is achieved by filling the port floor with epoxy, such as Splash Zone, or by filling the port floor with aluminum port tongues. The pros with aluminum fillers, are less work, but still need some epoxy to fill in any gaps, also uniform shape of each aluminum filler. With epoxy, no gaps to worry about. Cons being cost of aluminum fillers, over $167-200 bucks. (Price Motorsports has a kit, as does Total Performance in Australia.) Also aluminum need to be drilled, tapped, and screwed to secure them from underside of port. With epoxy, is the overall time it takes, to mix, and form in the 8 ports, then they need finish shaping them. Also some feel epoxy, needs to be secured with self tapping type screws, with some epoxy over them to prevent loosening, and falling into lifter valley. Something to consider to bring more power to the table, as I heard Cleveland's make power. Always seeing and learning something new at DragBoss Garage.
Im very happy to be the first person to get some DragBoss stickers, I appreciate it very much.
Now for some rambling from me, when we are looking at cylinder heads and sizes the very first thing that needs to be considered is the cfm demand of the engine at the desired rpm point, now people will look at that 6 cylinder head with 4V ports and think its silly to use a port thats considered too big even for a 351 V8, yet a 351 has 43.875 cubic inches per pot but that 300 6cylinder has 50 cubic inches per pot.
The 351 has an intake port cfm demand at 6500rpm of 279cfm, the 300 6cylinder cfm demand is 318cfm at the same 6500rpm point, all cfm numbers are at 28" test pressure.
Once you have your cfm demand target then you can calculate a minimum cross sectional area to make sure its physically possible to flow the amount of air you need as efficently as possible. So take that cfm demand number and divide it by 146, 146cfm is the maximum amount of air per square inch of area that can be moved at 28" test pressure.
The 351 minimum cross sectional area at 100% efficency is 1.91"squared, the 300 6cylinder needs 2.18"squared. My personal process is to aim for a 95% efficency so I multiply that area number by 1.05 to get my minimum cross sectional area numbers.
The entry of a 4V port is absolutely too big and should be filled in every circumstance in my personal opinion, there isnt enough material further down the port at the short turn or bowl that could be removed to ever warrant the stock port entry size.
Sean your welcome. I appreciate you taking the time to explain to us the mathematical logistics. This is something not many know and you break it down well thank you. 2 things, first is when you say max is 146 cfm at 28 inches. Can you extrapolate. What lift, is lift even a consideration? Second. When we look at this process or theory, to me it’s a dry theory, it’s not a dynamic environment. Even with wet flow, I think it is a guideline, but in a running engine there are many variables that you cannot reproduce on the bench. Including, heat, molecule size, degree of atomization, pressure, both atmospheric and combustion. The list goes on. Thoughts there and relationship to bench flow Sean. Thanks
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I will do 2 replies to try break it apart.
146cfm per square inch of area at 28" comes from the point of the pressure differential itself, air moves from high pressure to low pressure, when we are testing an intake port/intake tract we create a lower pressure on the bore side of the valve head using vac motors, so air from our environment will be the high pressure side of the valve head, now it doesnt matter at what altitude you do this because its the pressure differential number that determines the average airspeed, in turn that determines the max amount of air that can be moved, 28" of water column pressure differential is 1.011psi, 1.011psi pressure differntial results in a maximum average airspeed of 350fps, air moving at 350fps through a 1"squared area calculates out to 146cfm at 100% efficeny.
When looking at lift the valve curtain area, which is the area created between the valve seat and the valve head will for a period of time be the minimum cross sectional area absolutely, once a valve is at 1/4 of the vale heads diameter in lift, for example a 2" valve at .500" lift has now reached a point that the curtain area is the same area as the entire valve head itself, now given that a throat of any port is always smaller than the valve head itself we can now say that the valve/curtain area can no longer be the minimum cross sectional area, the throat may be now the minimum or any other section of the port itself, commonly the pushrod pinch. With all that going back to the original cfm demand numbers we were working out a target for airflow through the head to support a cylinder at the max rpm point as well as the point of max piston speed during that one cycle, max piston speed occurs generally around thew 72/75 degree after TDC point.
I will end this one here and go into a bit more detail on the next reply.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland A flowbench is just a tool and you are spot on that it cant replicate dynamic actions that occur in an engine at speed. What we can do tho is develop stable airflow paths at every lift point and have a way to not only measure the cfm but more importantly the airspeeds of precise areas within a port and work out the efficency of the areas involved. You can hear if a port is stable or not, you can put flags in the port to "see" the airflows behaviour, pinpoint the dead areas like you spoke about in this very video.
Now a pressure differential is the base "energy" to airflow, on a flowbench this is created by vac motors and we control those to give a stable pressure differntial to be able to reference test to test, in an engine a pressure differntial is also the base "energy" for airflow, now it starts in the overlap period when the exhaust gasses are still exiting or even may have already exited if good scaveging is happening, this leaves a low pressure situation in the chamber even as the piston is still approaching TDC, as the intake valve cracks off the seat air/fuel moves towards the low pressure area, this is the start of the momentum of the intake charge even when the piston is at TDC and not moving back down the bore yet. Reversion happens when the pressure in the chamber during overlap is higher than atmospheric and exhaust gas moves into the intake tract instead, wasting a good start to cylinder filling.
After the overlap the piston decending down the bore is now the source of creating the pressure differential, the piston starts off slow just after TDC and increases its speed until about 72/75 degrees after TDC, then it starts to decelerate as it approaches BDC, now this next bit will be very important to understand.
To maintain good energy to promote airflow you have to maintain a good pressure differntial, the pressure differntial is created not just by the piston decending but also by the restriction of the intake valve/port and tract, the piston has to pull against something to create a pressure differential, then the other side of the coin is that you dont want too much of a pressure differntial as that creates airspeeds either past the valve seat or in the port itself that are too high and not controlled, they will seperate and choke the port making the situation even worse, its a sub-sonic choke, you will see this on a dyno when all of a sudden the power just falls off.
We want to keep airspeed to around the 0.55mach number, that equates to a pressure differntial of 3.17psi, so how do we do that? Camshaft and knowing the full lift range flow numbers, knowing how much flow an intake tract has all the lift points we can then design a cam profile that can have the valve lifted to a certain height at a certain time in the cycle to maintain a good pressure differential which is our "energy" to get momentum happening in the intake charge.
After peak piston speed we are now relying on some pressure differential still to maintain airspeeds and momentum but once that piston is close to BDC we are now relying purely on that momentum energy to keep filling the cylinder even as the piston starts to come back up the bore for the compression stroke.
This is why in my opinion a flowbench is a critical tool for engine development, we need a way to calculate and measure to see if a cylinder head package can deliver whats required and to be stable and efficent doing it. Cheers
@@DragBoss351Cleveland So reply number 3, sorry but I did warn you I can talk alot hahaha.
Heat effects the airs density, on a bench we are testing generally at a lower air temp than what the engine will see through its intake tract, so therefore on the bench the air is at its heaviest when looking at N/A engines, so any density instabilty issues will most likely be seen on the bench, especially an experienced user who will look at localised airspeeds and determine that an increase in density may cause seperation from a short turn for example.
Atomisation in my opinion is related to airflow and also seperate from airflow, good even airspeed with some peaks of airspeed in certain areas will 100% promote better atomisation, dead areas will do the opposite and fuel will drop out of suspension and even in some cases travel back up the inlet tract and cause all sorts of air/fuel ratio issues even in other cylinders. In saying that you can have the perfect port/runners, then have a carb that dosent have great signal or is poorly tuned, then that becomes the reason for poor atomisation that is not created in any way by the ports. The same goes with injection, there are injectors that are just poorly designed or wrong placement within the inlet tract that will have horrible atomisation, the other thing with injection is that people think that inlet runners can be smooth from the injector back, people have to understand that an injector is spraying in a lot of cases while the intake valve is closed, fuel vaporises on the back of the valve head and at the same time you have a pulse running up and down the entire inlet tract from the last valve closing event, this moves that fuel up and down the entire inlet tract with it, so texture all the way up to the runner entry is required in my opinion to minimise fuel clinging to smooth runner walls, a boundary layer is still required but thats another subject for another day.
Again thanks for your time and interest in what I have to sharw Tim, I appreciate it mate.
Wow. I have heard Darin explaining this and it one of those things I have to read a few times to make sense and get a grasp of the context. I have heard him also max piston speed is 76 after tdc. So helps to hear this again. I am posting this on the cleveland FB page. And going to set up a head flow playlist. Saw you wrote more. Will ck this out Sean. Thanks mate
If UA-cam only aloud me one channel, this would be it!!!
Thanks for the compliment Bruce. Glad you approve and enjoy. Try and teach and show you things you just don’t see on other channels.
Also, being a heart patient myself who struggles with AFIB i appreciate the last part of the video as well. Thank you my friend, blessings to you and your family.
Your most welcome. Worst about a fib other than fast and irregular heart rate, is being on anti coagulation. We appreciate the blessings Mav
Tim I gotta say this is a great video as always, always good information and I enjoy your delivery and enthusiasm thank you so much 😊
Your welcome Terry, glad your here, you can relate for sure.
Really like your that you are getting all the old racer to tell their story
Thanks Gerald, yes cool stuff we need to preserve, just like your story. I will text /call you tomorrow, we can plan better. Appreciate you my friend
Tim Halstead, they may need you to port and polish the aortic valve. lol
the Cleveland 4v ports were big enough for a 500 cubic inch engine. you can add 50 ft. lb. with 50 cubic inches more displacement on the same port. seriously, you can either raise the floor of the port, or you can just make the engine bigger to better match the bigger port to begin with. how bout a 500 cubic inch Cleveland with the same 4v head. or a 600 cubic inch engine. of course it can't be done but seriously, at some point more cubic inches makes the existing port just right, or too small. I've had 351C, 400M, 4v, 2v heads and after a quick look at them, the best approach is build the tall deck 400M bored/stroked to maximize cubic inches. if you want torque, just use the 2v heads and port those, which is what the old Holley carb engineer said in his video when you interviewed him- that was done decades ago in the 1970-80's and the engine was 5 SECONDS quicker lap times. the 2v head already has a higher floor.
smaller 2v heads running much better than 4v heads example from Holley carb engineer, from your previous video. 2v heads were 5 seconds faster lap times. instead of filling in a bigger port, why not use the small port head to begin with. a picture emerges with the Cleveland heads. either put more cubic inches under the 4v heads, or use the 2v heads under the stock displacement engines.
ua-cam.com/users/clipUgkxcvcwScqy1NPsg1Hp1CobNkm2LqdjFB21
My father did this to a cleve he ran in short circle track racing in the 90s and was untouchable vs the sbc junk out there lol
Heck yeah, another voice of experience.
Love your tech advice from experience, the history of many of the tuners from the glory days, and of course your Ford passion Tim. Fantastic UA-cam posts.👍
Thanks so much. Sound advice needs to come from track experience not something you read. Yes trying to get a historical racing channel where you can hear it from the horses mouth. Appreciate you stumper 🏁
I'm gunna need an Aortic valve replacement if nothing else kills me, cheers. Need a bloody hip first.
Tom it’s a bitch getting old. Glad you were able to see the last part of the video. We will keep you on our prayers. 🙏be strong. Ps have assisted in 1000s of hip and knee replacements.
Were you from Brooklyn or Queens Tim? you sound like you have an accent from that area!
Upstate NY Chuck ☺️
I was that person who asked for your email. For some reason I was only able to see half of your email address. I was the first to view that video and comment. I am setting up online banking account next week so I can purchase that sticker along with some merchandise...Dragboss Garage for the WIN (even though I didn't win, my bad.) Yhose cylinder head section cutaways are A1 quality mancave bling!
Thanks Mark, I saw you were but did not see an answer. My email is thpa351@gmail.com. Send me an email. I love those cutaways really opens up the understanding.
I remember hearin at a shop I was at that a guy put 4v heads on a Lima block 429??
That I don’t know about, not sure if they bolt on also deck height is different. But who knows, maybe someone will chime in Fred
Animal Jim ran those air vanes 40 + years ago that I know of. seen him with the manifold off in the pits at KCIR. Maybe some of Kasses old school stuff?? Filling the floor makes sense with tunnel ram applications, none of the potential energy column volume is lost with the ram making up more supply of readied fuel and air in the addition of column mass. No matter what... it's all about the combination.
So true the combo is key, gapp and Roush made them first I believe. Animal told me he bought them and a aluminum cleveland block from Jack. Column mass, with 14.7 lbs of atmospheric pressure at sea level, and some scavenging helps a lot
Tim, I run these stuffers in my 372. They do hurt flow a little when I tested them on a super flow 600 compared to unstuffed heads. I have run these with a Terry Parker funnel web intake and a CHI dual plane air gap. With either intake it had more low end than a full 4V and a strip,dominator. For track day, the CHI air gap was better off the corners. I suspect I am losing a little upper end HP to the Parker intake. Installing the stuffers is easy really. Use Zspar epoxy. Work it into shape with wet hands, let it dry and then Clean up with cross buffs.
Cool deal to know. So your running circle track? Does splash zone work similarly with water for shaping? Thanks for the real life experience
Take a look at a guy named Bob Huttman he has been racing 6 cyl Ford stuff for about 30 years or more. He and CJ Batten have been working with the boss 6 cylinder heads for 3 decades. I think He still is racing the 6 cylinders today. I also think he was the first to have a Boss 6 cylinder head cast from aluminum Bob was Dyno tech for Ford Motor Co.
I will see if I can find him. Never knew people still raced them. Have heard of CJ Batten, thought he did olds heads too.
Frank and Bruce Allen Crash may pop up, sure be interesting to hear Frank's side of that experience. Fortunately it ended well.
dig up a little knowledge on the Cuadra family pro stock racers .. it`s my understanding that Christain has an Elite Motors( Erica Enders) Chevy engine in his mustang and Ferando Jr and SR have Sonny Lennard Ford power .. not sure about the 4th car ..
I will have to Wille, sounds like they got it going on for sure. Thanks for the heads up
Thanks Tim! Please cover a tunnel ram ( for a 4V) that’s street friendly up to 7K as well as the normal super cool drag stuff. v/r wh
Sounds good William will do. I think the weiand is better intake for the street as opposed to the UR -19. Love the super cool drag stuff
I learned about those water jackets years ago, bought a 5.0 thunderbird for the block and someone had welded the motor mounts so i tried grinding those welds out and got into the block just a little bit! And antifreeze started trickling out block ruined!
Yikes, that sucks, but a lesson learned for sure Brandon
Great video and information, thank you!
Thank you glad you enjoy it Enigma
I like what your talking about being a backyard racer in late 70s - early 80s I used to attach my rizers to the intake because I hade one come lose and was easier to Match it to the intake having welded and grinding to flow great incite on old school machine work
Right on Rodney. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Glad you enjoy the old school presentation
Man it would be great if you could get David vizard to do a chat with you he has a wealth of information
He is my buddy Andy’s friend. I try not to step on others. He sure is written many books David
Im peggys hubby, and have built several ford engines for customers from 289s to 428 Cobra jets, and stock clevelands. This is great info!
Thanks Peggy’s husband, glad this can help you too. Which engine do you prefer building.
Keep up the good work Tim!!
Trying hard to manage all aspects of life. Glad your watching. Stay tuned Marc
This is some GOOD stuff DB! Very interesting.....bigger is not always better. Love the channel!
Thanks Rust, you get it. In the past I always thought bigger is better, some things maybe, like trucks, parts collection lol
Excellent episode, this channel is really coming alive!
Thanks James, just me in DragBoss Garage. Glad your here with me.
Awesome love all this Cleveland stuff
Thanks Ross, something you don’t see everyday
great info.
Another excellent video, as usual Tim. Many thanks, Greg
The thanks go to you for watching and enjoying Greg. Appreciate you
Cool idea, I wish there were similar port fillers for FE’s when using low riser heads with a medium riser intake.
I would love to fill my LS1 ports. I can stick my finger on the floor when it's on a flow bench and not feel any air movement. I would fill it level to the top of the short turn. You gain torque everywhere. It's also beneficial to have at least a 5/16" radius in the corners
That cleveland exhaust port is horrendous. Exhaust gases move MUCH faster than intake air, and can't navigate corners at all. I'd raise the floor to make it parallel with the roof. David Vizard puts an angle plate in the header to prevent reversion.
You should try it and see what happens. Be a great test. Never heard of the angled plate in header. Let us know if try filling in the port.
Does anyone make a intake to match raised runners
Now there's a guy ask'n the right question...
Yes the Ford Motorsport intakes are raised, also many of the aftermarket are as well. Chi, tfc, .etc.
Chi makes one for port filled 4v heads. The edelbrock air gap can also have epoxy in the floor to match AND there is enough material to open the top to match
Thanks John good info to know. Thanks for sharing with us
The heart lesson is interesting because I'm in the middle of heart issues.
I worked in cardiac surgery for 13 years David. See it all. We will keep you in our prayers. 🙏
Hey Tim and family. Funny how things happen, this is the first time I've been able to check in for a long time, as I have been through yet another heart attack, and still having a big time with AFIB. I think the doctors have me pretty well on a better path now, but it will take a long recovery this time. It's great to see what's been happening with you, but there's only one thing missing, some track time in that cat!!! Let's get some rubber down brother!!! lol
Hey Elmer, wondering where you have been. But now I know. Hopefully they were able to stent the culprit, but if not sounds like they medically managed you. A Fib can be a pain in the as* especially if have issues with rate control. We will add you to our prayer list. Hopefully made plenty of vids for your recovery. Any questions let me know. Thanks much for being here
@@DragBoss351Cleveland They found two new blockages, and stented them right up. I feel better now, than I have since April 2022 with my triple bypass. We seem to think they were not completely noticeable and were at least developing back then. When they got these in, I immediately started doing better, by a noticeable amount. They have been working on my AFIB since my BP, and they have it close enough to use medicine to manage it for now, at least. They shocked me so many rounds in the last year, I lost count lol. Thanks for the prayers and thoughts, sir.
Your welcome on the prayers. Not sure of which vessels they bypassed. Always get the Lad, left anterior descending, then cx circumflex and maybe rca right coronary artery. What did they stent? Sound like your getting there slow but sure. 🙏
I would be interested in that they did some work on my neck and I never thought about it then but now I wish I had a video of him doing the work
I have assisted in many neck surgeries from cancer, carotids, to disc herniation. What surgery did you have?
@@DragBoss351Clevelandthey took out 2 disks and put a plate in the front and shims and bone marrow in the back.
Love hearing about those Cleveland's! Always interesting!!
Thought you would appreciate it Mike. A different perspective and info anyone can use
Wonder if the port raising would apply to my Windsor iron heads? I know the trick flow high ports aluminum heads work well with 351w and 302 but i run 69 351w heads, milled 100 thousandths 1.94 intake 1.6 exhaust and the intake sides are gasket matched, the exhaust ported and matched to the old Headman headers oval port header flange. They also have bowl work done. Just can't afford nice aluminum heads right now. What is your opinion Tim? You think it would be worth researching?
Yes any raising of the intake port helps straighten the path. But also, need the rest of the combo to match. Small cam and low compression won’t see much benefit. Low rpm the same. Depends on car too. Good set of gears may pick up more, better Convertor.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I'm old school on the converter too. It's a pinto converter I use a cobra jet flywheel!! Old school but, gives me 3500 stall. 😁
Great story again Tim … can’t wait to hear Ben Alameda Live
Thanks you Perry. I have so much going on as usual so need to get a video he made for me and post before we do a live chat.
Tim, you rock brother, knowing a little of your past really opens ones eyes. I'll say this, attention to detail is something people are finely doing but Knowing your background now? Attention to the small details is going to make you that much better. Please keep the knowledge following, I love it.
Thanks Gary I truly appreciate the comments. Yes I did heart and lung surgery assisted and managed patients for 13 years, now work I. Emergency medicine for the last 10 years. Attention to detail, makes a difference between life and death and similarly racing and engines if you see my analogy. I sure will, make sure you subscribe to the grumpy pa, I will get that channel growing too
@@DragBoss351Cleveland … Watching a professional engine builder as he methodically goes through the process of precision assembly is very similar to watching a professional surgeon do their work with great skill. I’m proud to say that I was trained in the engine assembly process by the best Ford builder during the sixties…Gene Wilson 🏁🇺🇸
Yes sir, both have to think the same and work effectively and efficiently. I surgery with a great team, can work with little words and just have the tunes cranking, preferably classic rock and some metal thrown in for good measure.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland …. What an awesome plan, my friend. Not only keeping the Classic Pro Stock alive for future generations to enjoy but also keeping the best music blasting away to enhance the pure enjoyment of classic Drag Racing. Sign me up for this awesome cruise ship tour into the abyss , please 🌝🌚🎸🎯🎼
Your All ready on board. Set the mainsail and full speed ahead
I think the epoxy back then was this stuff called "plastic mastic" I used to buy it from Landy...
Never heard of it. Cool story. I should get his son on for a live chat.
Appreciate you take the time to explain how to get the most out of the Iron heads.,
Your most welcome. Lot of work, but more time than money.
Price engineering has these port filler available
Yes they do, don’t forget to secure in place Anthony.
Maybe Ford thought bigger holes mean less cost for the metal = dollars saved !!
That sounds like the plan, save money lol
Woh! I'll keep this simple, THANK YOU for producing this.
Your welcome Bobby, lot of work, but can reap great benefit
Same holds true with the the 429-460 exhaust ports .c8-D3's . That darn low spot.
Cool deal, have heard that before about those heads, as is oiling issues with them.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland MPG Head used to manufacture brass bolt on exhaust port plates for the 429-460 and BBC . They cited about a 25 Hp gain and 25-30 lb ft of torque gain. They also made stainless steel intake port plates for the Cleveland heads.
Yea they did, but thought they were bronze for Cleveland as well
@@DragBoss351Cleveland that's right. They had them for the exhaust side in bronze, stainless for the intake
Did you ever flow the clevo heads with the exaust port plates? Ive seen many versions of them. Most have square ports, yours are round and im keen to see what they flow.
I have never flowed them. I do have a couple sets at BES and plan was finish TrackBoss 427 and the. Start with heads and intake there.
I have seen guys fill ports with epoxy, what is it and where do you get it?
Splash Zone, Amazon do an I internet search. Easy to find.
Great advice Tim, another way that i did was to use 2V heads which have smaller ports, i went to a lot of expense to find some 4V heads only to lose power,
Thanks George. Do what works for you. If your not spinning that engine over 7200 might not make the power you thought. But also combo has to match. Nothing wrong with 2v.
2v with a small chamber laid back around the intake and exhaust . I used the aussie 302c heads . hand port the ports . picking up cheap compression & doing your best to improve flow.
I like those heads too
@@DragBoss351Cleveland The only thing with the 302 Cleveland heads is the compression is too high for a street engine on a 351, the combustion chambers need to be openened up a little for pump gas, and like you said keep the revs under 7000. otherwise they are a better option for a street engine.
@@georgejohns7966 Thanks, I have always ran race gas on the street, needed it and enjoy the smell😀
I always enjoy watching your videos to learn from.. the more i learn the more respect i have for the Cleveland engine . I assume it was good enough that the guys who ran Chev and i do also went to the BigBock to be able to compete. Or thats what i was told . I always wondered how Bob came up with the combination chamber size , shape ect .. The more i learn the more i realize how little i knew . Can you expand on the yates cylinder heads some time . Thanks for all you do
Your welcome Jim, appreciate it much. The old cleveland can hold its own that is for sure. Bob knew airflow and flow dynamics, and experiment like crazy. Like Rusty told me, he would spends weeks developing one port. Trying everything and every shape. I have pics of Robert Yates head, he used to weld up and design the Yates. You should see that. Stay tuned
Great info thank you
The more you know, the more you know
30ft-lb is a big deal...
Yes it is. Need to try it.
Tim I had no idea you specialized in cardiology ..very impressive to say the least.. You do a great job with your drag boss garage channel really enjoy it keep up the good work ..looking forward to more ..
Thanks Clark, I worked 13 years in Cardiothoracic surgery, different specialty. The surgical aspect of cardiology so to speak. Heart bypass, or cabg, valve replacements, also all lung surgeries. But now have been in Emergency Medicine for 10 years. Thanks for watching my channel. Glad you enjoy and learn something from DragBoss Garage
@DragBoss Garage hello,love watching your videos,didnt know you worked with heart surgery, what's the best medicine you think is for Afib
Hey hope all is well. That question has a lot of answers, the goal treatment for a fib is rate control and the dreaded anti coagulation. What answer are you looking for. Meds, mortality, exacerbation, treatment with ablation?
@DragBoss Garage what you think best meds is
Tough question. For rate control. Probably beta blocker, can use cardizem too. For anticoagulant Coumadin as it is very cheap. But sometimes hard to manage inr. Best med for?
Great video Tim. Remember a few months ago when I asked you about the Chris Parker funnel web intake? This intake is designed for the intake runner stuffers. My first intake on a Cleveland was the Eldebrock and it worked okay. But when I came across the funnel web and got it set up, my Cleveland came alive. On nitrous it was a rocket ship. Low 9’s on a 175 shot in the 1/4. I was running a flat top forged pistons, factory forged rod length, and a factory crankshaft. Camshaft was a custom ground mechanical roller, Crower lifters, rocker arms, Manton pushrods. The intake was the key to this engine making the power that it did. Love the videos and the information that you’re willing to share with us Cleveland fans. Thanks.
Yea I remember you mentioning it, don’t remember low 9s though. What did it run without spray? Terry Parker, I have on also I will test against my ported strip dominator. Be a cool comparison. With flat tops not hug compression, unless heads cut down. Thanks for watching Cowboy
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Car went a best of 9.80 on motor. 29 degrees on nitrous and 34-36 degrees on motor. This was 15 years ago in my 81 Capri. I still have the whole engine from carburetor to oil pan. I’ve got a 86 mustang that I’ve built in the last 10 years . I’m running a Windsor right now, but I’m eventually going to be going back to Cleveland power. Windsor runs good though. I’ve gone a best of 10.60 on a 100 shot. I’ve got everything for a long rod Cleveland build. 3.5” stroke and 6” SBC rods. I’ve got a Ford Performance Cleveland block, AFD aluminum heads that will work with the funnel web intake. The mustang is a night and day difference from the Capri. All aftermarket TeamZ suspension, Viking coil overs, Autorod controls electronics, there’s really no comparison. Mustang is a little heavier than the Capri, but the upgraded everything will make up for it. I need to go buy some GoPros and start getting into making some videos for UA-cam. I meant to tell you that I had a 69 XR7. Car was Cleveland powered, factory light green with the black stripe on the sides. Had the spoiler with the magnum 500 wheels. I sent the wheels off and had the back wheels widened to 10 inches and the front wheels narrowed to 4 inches. It looked so cool. I totaled it street racing in 1999. I loved the sequential taillights. The hideaway headlights and the front skinnies looked so badass. It was my favorite muscle car that I ever owned. Even my friends and family say that they thought that was the coolest car that I’ve owned.
Cowboy, quite a racing history. I appreciate you sharing it with myself and friends on this channel. Wicked performance. I had a set of afd ported by Darin Morgan, close to 400cfm intake. Had him do a tfc, too but sold them. Wanted nothing to do with them but long story. Part of the reason I started to build this channel. Send me some pics and vids and I can make a video. I like all 3 of your rides. And the cougar oh yeah, nothing beats their looks. For sure. Biased opinion here 😉💯🏁
@@DragBoss351Cleveland it’s been fun. I can’t complain. Yeah I’ll have to get some videos going of my Cleveland build. I’ve been working on getting setup in my shop building cylinder heads. I purchased an in perfect shape valve grinder, head surfacer, and a Bridgeport. I worked in a machine shop when I was in high school and college. I started out parts washing and worked my way up in the company. I graduated with an engineering degree in Metallurgy-Welding. I do all my own work. I built my car from the ground up. I did my own machine work on the engine accept for balancing the rotating assembly and transmission. I do appreciate the information and knowledge that you share with us on your channel. God bless.
Thanks so much Cowboy. Enjoy learning about you and your abilities. Thanks for sharing with us. Sounds like you garage is well equipped with everything needed, well almost. Always some tool we need. Glad your here. Appreciate the comments and cars
Hello Tim, GOOD Stuff!! The ports in the Cleveland were definitely designed for power at high rpm. The CHI heads finally have arrived at Lykins motorsports, so progress! Now waiting for the block. To be honest, that deal you showed with the 400 block making over 700 hp, has me thinking. Keep up the great work, DBG the only place too be! Take care!
Wondering how you have been John. Wow long awaited but worth it. My buddy jay Baker worked at machine shop in Syracuse. He had gone through my 377c for me. Can’t think of the name. Who does your machine work? Yes the 400 could be killer bad, what sucks is the bell housing size. Yes sir DBG all the way, ☺️💯🏁
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I've been watching and liking, but no comments. Brent Lykins, has done some for us , and local, is Brian Osborne, at Syracuse Crankshaft. Brian just got a new cnc Rottler for boring and honing.
Yes that’s it vw here Jay works for probably at 25 years. My other buddies dad worked at reliable machine for probably longer did all the crank work.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland yes, Reliable machine, on North Salina,
Yep that’s the place. I remember the big windows you could see the machines and guys working always. Dick Mcnish was his name
SWEET!😉
Just more from DragBoss Garage 😉
So, do the 2V heads also suffer from "dead space" in the ports? I have heard for some time that the Aussie closed chamber 2V heads were the way to go, especially for the street. I turned a 2V Cleveland into a four bolt main 4V back in the mid eighties in a Torino I owned. Bought 4V closed chamber heads and intake for $250. Now I can't find any reasonably priced. Aluminum heads are pricey. I have a 2V engine in a '73 Mach 1 I just cruise on the street and take to car shows. I know Edelbrock made a 4V intake for the 2V heads at one time, just wondering if I can get away with a mild cam and intake on my 2V heads. Maybe I'm just thinking too much lol.
Actually they do not suffer as much, since the ports are smaller, their issues is an open chamber, low compression. The Aussie head has the small combustion chamber like the 4v. There are plenty of 4v heads on FB cleveland site. With the Mach, make sure gears are at least 3.89. Suspect it is a 4 speed. Yes they made a good intake for your application, in fact I have one like brand new sitting in DragBoss Garage, email me
NC Guy, good call by DragBoss on the desirable small “quench” combustion chambers found on the Aussie 2-V Cleveland heads. All 2-V heads produced in the States have much larger combustion chamber volumes which makes it a little harder to get the compression up enough to easily make more power. But that’s certainly no reason to throw away your 2-V components. The biggest problem with the two barrel heads is the bad word of mouth that they receive online.
They share a canted valve design with the more desirable and expensive 4-V quench heads and they have fairly large valves and ports as produced from the factory. In stock trim they have the capacity to make more power than standard Windsor heads and definitely more than inline valve SBC stuff.
Just like most engines, all they need is a bump in compression, a better flowing intake manifold and carburetor along with unrestricted exhaust and a camshaft designed specifically for the 2-V Cleveland heads.
I also used to think that Cleveland 2 barrel heads were junk back in the seventies. But I became a believer after my friend upgraded his 2-V , ‘ 72 Mach 1. It was amazingly powerful.
You’ll need to get new pistons to increase the compression. A cam from one of the grinders that specializes in Fords. Headers and low restriction dual exhaust. A Holley 4-V with vacuum secondaries although mechanical secondaries would work fine depending upon the cam and final differential gear ratio. The main thing is you have to have a plan so the combination will work well together. You asked about a four barrel intake for 2-V heads and you have a few options that would work. Edelbrock still makes one in a dual plane design for milder builds. If you go for a more radical build, the Weiand X-Celerator #7516 is a single plane design for 2-V heads with a suggested rpm range of 1500-7000.
Yes indeed you can get away with a lot with a radical 2 barrel build. Maybe I think too much instead of you but every time you hammer it, you’ll be totally satisfied with your build 🏁.
Lots of great info Daniel Wilson. Thanks. Appreciate it
@@DragBoss351Cleveland … Professor DragBoss, you have so many people asking valid questions and I don’t know how you find the time to answer them all. I hope I didn’t step on any toes by replying to a pretty good 👍 inquiry. I wanted to discuss the procedure he mentioned about preparing a common 2-bolt main block to accept stock or the aftermarket 4-bolt main bearing caps that are currently available. But everything I post ends up being way too long and putting people into a deep sleep 💤. I’m talking comatose and nobody needs that. There’s enough zombies around here 😵💫.
The 2v heads worked well on our late model 67 fairlane. We ran 12.5 compression on open chamber 2v heads. Then a friend got the 2v Aussie heads, from Ford , that ended that! The Chevy guys got all cleveland stuff "Outlawed", so my friend built a 331 with those OZ heads for street and strip.
Is it possible to braze intake port up to increase velocity
Yes, but way more work than epoxy or aluminum port fillers.
Thanks, worried epoxy come loose. Thinking about port stuffers, drill holes in intake runners to attaching was told easy to chip or brake the stuffers. I gonna stuffer route first. Thanks again.
@@anthonycombs1623 That sounds like a solid plan Anthony, your welcome
It's been said and written the legendary Smokey Yunick would work for days even weeks to gain 1 horsepower. For me, I like the stories about what he did with oil pumps, freeing up hidden horses most never even thought of. Smokey even acquired a GM reverse engine dynamometer that allowed him to measure the cost expenditure of every working part and parasitic drag source. That's what winners do. Big Daddy now has GM/Smokey's dyno down in Ocala.
Yes Smokey was quite the innovator and legend. Never heard any oil pump stories. Sounds like him with that dyno.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 😆😆😆Yep, he even liked to start with the cheapest discount oil pumps he could find down at the local parts houses, after he revamped them they often went into 100,000-dollar engines. And Hey Man, I should have figured you a Doctor/Surgeon. Human Being mechanics make dynamite gearheads and/or vice versa. hahaha but nolol For me, the only difference between people and machinery is...one is alive.
Good history. He never missed a chance to make a Buck. You got that right. People much simpler only a few moving parts no clearance adjustments other than wear lol. Great minds think alike 👍👍
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 😆😆😆
Right on☺️💯🏁
The discussion on valve replacement!
Meaning?
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Aortic valve
@dennisrobinson8008 usually they become sclerotic and build up calcium deposits. One of the most contributing factors is a bicuspid valve that only has two leaflets instead of tricuspid/three.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Sounds like heavy carb deposits on an intake valve!
You have a flow bench to test it or you had somebody tell you all this oh you got Morgan testing you all his tricks
Yes he is, he is a great teacher.
@DragBoss351Cleveland your a lucky man it took me 35 years of working on heads & flow testing & still learn something new every time I turn on flow bench
@@jackwillson8099 I am blessed, and give thanks twice a day. Its guys like Darin, that make all the difference. I appreciate you being here. I am working with Larry Meaux, and just finishing up a video, I think you will like it. So you a head porter then?
I subbed maybe a year ago , great work. Then ‘ I was a cardio thoracic surgeon’ for 13 years. Bloody hell , respect. You’ve no doubt saved hundreds of lives. Thank you
Thank you. I am a physician assistant, have worked in orthopedics for 2 years, ct surgery for 13 years and now Emergency medicine for 10 years. Appreciate you
There used to be bronze spacers that went on the exhaust ports with a toungue to fill in the dip on that thing and the headers kept in in place! Are they still available?
Yeah I think mpg in Colorado has them.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland maybe@ Ive been drag racing here in South Carolina for decades. I'm 63 now and my wife's health has gone down hill. The guys left the 9.2 deck blocks because technically the blocks were the weak link! Curiously enough, the Eldebrock Victor Jr heads almost the same 274cfm of airflow!!? The Cleveland block aren't up to the stress nitrous puts on them! The Windsor blocks with a crank web hold up pretty well! But, most of that are numbers based on nitrous, a sledge hammer! But now the availability of high flowing heads on a Windsor platform are awesome!! I'm looking for a package for my 94F150 flareside, the 460 platform is started to become a financially affordable platform!! Let's face it, I'm not going road racing in a 94F150!! A 500hp 460 with a 100 shot of gas! Last forever, or until it kills you!! You gotta die from something, let the coroner earn his money wiping that grin off ur face, or not?!@
When you speak of 9.2 blocks I suspect your talking cleveland. I agree not strongest blocks. Yeah anything with nitrous make so much more cylinder pressure and those blocks were not a designed for that. Not a fan of edlebrock heads. But use what works for you. Truck with bbf will be fun. And a little spray will make a fun day
great vid, the int port inserts shown are the same as the ones from Price Motorsport Engineering (PME) which are modeled after the 1969 Ford T/A port inserts, these inserts should NOT be install as is and MUST be shaped/ground to port opening shape of no less than 2-1/8" to (2-1/4" BEST) tall port opening, the short turn needs to be ground/re shaping laying back & raising the short turn similar to some of the factory T/A race head designs turning the int ports into more of a venturi shape. Also slight regrinding & clean up of int port roof of (1/8" MAX) higher will help with better T/A venturi shape
Yes I figured that they need some good work over. I was thinking of doing a set and trying my luck to see how so could do. In my spare time lol. Have done a few of these installs Porco?
yes we have done a few (1/4" thick finished) PME versions and even 1/4" thick steel tongue versions that also bolted in from underside. FYI, Some of the aussie port stuffers (Parker/TFC tongues ) out are too thick and end up restricting/hurting top end flow
That’s is something you don’t think about thicknesses. One set of pro stock Heads I have are about 1/8 to 1/4 inch. Not much.
I tried to post a link to some of my old 1/4" filled P/S boss heads and it got deleted again. There was an articall online i think from motortrend showing pics of boss 302 build/dyno, the guy used the aussi parker/tfc "port stuffer" by the time he was done with grinding them where they did NOT hurt upper end power they basically looked similar to a finished set of the american PME/FORD T/A "port insert" design originally from 1969. The restrictor port aussi "port stuffers" screw up the factory short turn design hurting top end power. Again the factory 4V port openings should not be shorter than a 2-1/4" opening curving up and over the short turn.
@@393boss must be you tube that deleted. Just email me at thpa351@gmail.com. Never seen any articles like that
Great video Tim! That exhaust cut away really illustrates how much they turn down in stock form.
It sure does Brian. I forgot to show behind the bowls crazy to see that too. Maybe make a short on that. Thanks much
I saw a guy who was doing a high HP turbo build on a 428 tunnelport, and he actually had to weld up the ports and reprofile them there was too much internal volume to get them to flow good for the drag application he was in. They are like the Hemi and 429 - designed to make power at 7000rpm+ but not great elsewhere
It’s a happy medium between volume and velocity. Wanted the best of both simultaneously