DragBoss Garage: Ford 351 Cleveland, Most Outlawed Engine In Racing History, It's All In The Head
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- This video has a a title that will bring up a lot of discussion and controversy. I got the quote from Tim Meyer's T shirt, for his TrackBoss Performance Products business. Although his shirt says Most outlawed Engine in history, I added Racing in History, more pertinent to what we are discussing. In this video I discuss what made the 351 Cleveland the most Outlawed Engine, specifically the 4 V cylinder heads. The iron 4V heads came from the Boss 302, that they ran and developed for the Trans Am racing series. The Ford Mustang, and Cougar were Fords flagships. Ford won the 1970 Trans Am season with driver Parnelli Jones running a Mustang. I have heard and read that the Boss 302 heads were developed back in late 67 early 68. The Cleveland started development around the same time, as I have the first Cleveland Block, with a date code of 1968. In fact that the Cleveland 4V heads I show, are really Boss 302 heads, with the water passages brazed closed.
I made the statement in the title, because the Cleveland has been penalized in every type of racing, and even the Engine Masters series. During the Pro Stock years, the Cleveland was penalized with the most weight per cubic inch, of any other engine combination. It had to carry more weight than the Hemi. The key to success in pro Stock, was not only the drivers, but the Ford 351 Cleveland's canted valve cylinder heads. They are a canted valve head, with the BBC being the closest in similarity. The valves are canted, and open away from the cylinder wall, and decreasing the effects of valve shrouding immensely. The ports are huge in comparison to other small cubic inch displacement engines of the time. the Boss 302 in 1969, initially ran 2.23 inch intake valves, in 1969, they were changed in 1970 to 2.19 inches. The standard intake valve size for the 4V heads. The exhaust were 1.71 inches for both Boss 302, and Cleveland 4v. They flow like gangbusters from the factory. They had screw in studs for adjustable valve train, as Boss 302, ran a solid lifter cam. Intake port was made to work above 4000 rpm, lower rpm, caused the air flow to have decreased velocity, and not the best low end torque. As seen in video they make intake port fillers to effectively raise the intake port track. Increasing the velocity and airflow. Darin Morgan told me the port fillers can add 30 ft lbs of torque, the fin that you see in the intake, is a band aid, as per Darin Morgan. he did say the fin placed in the port, does allow for pick up of 15 ft lbs. of torque.
In this video you will I will explore their main design flaw, the somewhat shortened and cramped exhaust port, that was made to fit shock tower cars, specifically the Mustang and Cougar. What the Pro Stock racers did, or have done was cut off the exhaust port, and add an aluminum plate that mounted on what was left of the bottom of the exhaust port, and secured with head bolts. This effectively raised the exhaust ports 1 3/4 of an inch. The aluminum port had many different shaped ports, from square to oblong, and round being the most popular shape . The plate was ported, and the short turn could be modified extensively. From reports, they say the plate added 20-25hp, I bet it added more like 40-50hp. Not sure who did this first, but did have a subscriber, wished I could find his info. He said Wayne Gapp, came to him, when he was working for Ford in 1970, with instructions and blue prints of cutting off the exhaust port. Not sure how true this is, but have heard nothing to dispute this.
The Ford 351 Cleveland is the most outlawed engine in history, If you find this quote, or where there this came from, let me know, and I will hook you up. I know that quite a few will dispute this, but that is what starts discussion. I would like to know who was the first to cut off the exhaust port and perform this modification.
The simple reason the Cleveland was outlawed is that it rained on Chevy's parade on a regular basis. When thousands of Chevy racers get beat by a handful of Ford racers they complain to the promotors.
That ain't the first time I have heard that. I say run what you brung...
My Dad used to run Clevelands in the early 70s up to the early 80s,there was him and maybe 2 other guys that were running Fords at drag strips,everybody was running General Motors.
All season long the Bow-Tie guys were crying about the Clevelands and even a couple 351Ws.
dropping bombs on the GM guys,So they would whine to the track techs and rule makers..without fail my dad would get handed a list of cylinder heads,camshafts,intakes,carbs that he could..or could not run at certain strips..usually they made him add up to 175lbs of weight as well...all in an effort to try and make it impossible for him and other Cleveland guys to run competitively and stop the GM guys from crying about their big blocks or heavily modified smallblocks getting spanked by Clevelands,eventually the restrictions,last minute rules at the track on race day and all the other games,My Dad had enough and just stopped racing,he was no big time racer,no sponsors etc he didnt have the time or money to play hardball
My Dad,Me and my brothers really loved watching Bob Glidden show up and smack GM all over the track,and later his son Billy put the Hurt on people with 302s
What do you expect from garbage motors. Cleveland was winning WITHOUT factory support from Ford. Same thing going on now mod motors are walking all over that overhyped LS & LT. 500ci rule was implemented to ruin the total Cleveland domination. Cheby and henchman nhra didn’t realize Boss 429 was even scarier monster. cheby never ended up beating Ford after the 500ci rule. Current pro stock DRCE engine is nothing more than Cleveland headed Oldsmobile block engine. It’s not a bbc. In the end Glidden did not agree to share new Boss Head technology with anyone else that wanted it. Not even Rickie Smith that was tearing up IHRA Prostock. 80’s were total Boss 429 domination. In IHRA 385ci Big Blocks reigned supreme still do. No other big block can be stroked to that cubic inch stock.
@@HioSSilver1999 That's a stupid comment since the Cleveland head is a small block head. Yes the stock Windsor heads were laughable against the sbc heads that's why they built the Cleveland head. The GM sb head is laughable against the Cleveland. that's why GM built the SB2 head AKA Cleveland head for GM crybabies.
@@CoyoteFTW As a Coyote owner NA I laugh at the LS.
I love this video! I am a CLEVELAND guy and have been for years! I can personally attest to all of the mods you described and tricks. My uncles cousing taught my Dad and I to build them by showing us his Courier with a BOSS 302. You are the first guy I've seen in years to talk about the "PORT Plate." My auto shop teacher taught us that trick back in the early 80's and I met the legendary Pat Gainal many years ago! (I think that was his name). When we were really low on budget, we would just weld the floors up and port match it. I used every trick just like you described for porting, port matching and we even relocated the valves. I eventually threw every cylinder head I had away and finally bought a set of Aussie 2V heads from Powerheads Performance. Years later I ran out of money from cancer; I sold the engine minus carb and headers. I even built it on the Dyno2000 platform and estimated 520+HP. It lives on in a 67 Mustang these days and makes an astounding 560+ HP. I don't build Cleveland's anymore; at least I haven't built any in the last 15+ years, but rather than hear people bash and trash this platform, I was ear to ear smiles watching your video. Long Live King Cleveland!
Thanks, Phil Racer, I know the book you’re talking about. I have it right now, Pat Ganahl. It was like my Bible as a kid. I’m glad you can relate to this. Enjoy the video. Cause the Cleveland is King 👑 believe it or not I use the same engine dyno program and drag Dyno 2000. I design my cams from these. And whenI put the the information in for the drag program for the engines I have built, usually only about a 10th off.. I’m glad you’re here. Hope you’re doing well and surviving that cancer. Please subscribe and share with your buddies and help me build his channel. If you like this, go back and look at all the videos, you’ll see even more. I have all the engine shop with early and check it out. And stay tuned DBG.
@DragBoss351Cleveland for sure! I would love to consult if you ever need it. I'm soon to be retired from engine development thanks to Ford Racing!
@@philracer7397 sounds good. Email at thpa351@gmail.com. Like to see what you were and are into. Thank you my friend.
That's funny bc they don't dominate the f.a.s.t class.....Seen them lose to 340s....
@boostjunkie2320 your funny too, ha ha, ha.
Sent my '70 Cleveland 4V out to get it bored and balanced . Installed hardened push rods and roller rockers on it , added headers and side pipes . Installed it on my kit Cobra and created a 2,400 pound rocket . Love that engine .
That would be dam scary to drive Robert. Very cool. Thanks for enjoying that Cleveland brother
I did the same thing and it gets some gone but the Cleveland I'm putting together now should make it get some gone even more 😅
In discussions with my Ford engineer friends about 50 years ago, they said they were inspired by the unshrouding of the valves in the SOHC 427 and BOSS 429 and developed the Cleveland to try to achieve similar results. I venture to say they succeeded.
Yes they got it right. Sure want a a Boss 429.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have a big Cleveland problem & you are a great Cleveland source.
it seems my aftermarket block has no oil drain from the heads and when I look up the same block other people have I don't see holes in the their block either.
this can't be normal
Edit : im not looking close enough, apparently its just on the rear of the block , is that good because im sure stock blocks have holes front & back.
Appreciate the positivity, but tell truth, I don’t know anything about aftermarket blocks. I would think it would have holes in the forward aspect, but if other peoples don’t have them, I guess they were meant to be there.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland im assuming it might be for oil control to keep draining oil from the front side of the crankcase to improve windage .
& its not like the rockers have a lot of oil to drain especially with blocks that are priority main oiling. I was just noticing my chi heads have a hole in the front & the back but the mme titus block ( that I've already had problems with ) has no holes in the front .
Im being paranoid im thinking
Yeah, I can’t say anything about the titus block, I’ve heard of some issues with them, but again there may be only a couple made. Call MME with these questions, he would be more than happy to help you.
Love your videos! I don't think anyone could get more hp out of the 351C than the late great,Bob Glidden! After all these years being gone,it still hurts! Keep the great & informative videos coming! How I miss the days of my youth,racing my 289 hi po Mustang!
Thanks Robert. Always great to hear for me. Oh I love the 289 hypo specially like in a 66 mustang fastback. Yes Glenn was the king when it came to Cleveland. And one of the points of this channel, our goal is to build a couple pro stock Cleveland and see how much horsepower we can make, I will Dyno these engines, and put them in the cougar and go Racin, maybe the mustang to have to see how it works out. Stay tuned
Yes sir. 🤘🏼
@@jerryp1776 Great story in history my friend. That’s some serious flow numbers. There’s no doubt Bob was ahead of his time in all aspects of racing. Amazing the work they put into cylinder heads. Here’s a quick link cherry on my heads that were done by Darin Morgan you may have seen this. If not check it out, my current A3 heads i run have similar numbers. Here’s the link
DragBoss Garage: Secret A3 head Flow Numbers, The Top loader 4 Speed/Inline Shifter, Update Cougar
ua-cam.com/video/k-cqW1536GA/v-deo.html
Didn't he get caught cheating?
No. Watch the Rusty Glidden. live. Chat on my channel.
Don’t get “back pressure” and exhaust port velocity confused! It’s the latter that’s important! Ex port velocity helps scavenging via the intake exhaust over lap. Back pressure is just a function of restriction and ex port efficiency. The ultimate goal is velocity and ideally at the lowest back pressure possible with a given port geometry. Exhaust port velocity is so important that a gain in velocity even when increasing back pressure will still result in a net gain of flow for a given architecture.
Good clarifying. I have heard Darin say that it is not that important, it’s not the flow numbers, to a degree or in general, it’s the port velocity that is key.
@claystudtman agreed 👍
You are absolutely spot on correct
Love this. Bob Glidden was THE MAN. his mustang was my FAVORITE car of all time. I have an autographed picture of the car he signed in the staging lanes while leaning on his car at the US NATIONALS. he asked me where I got it from. I said a guy in the pits was selling old car pictures. He said okay. I said I don’t have a pen and he pulled one out of his racing jacket. He wrote TO JERRY. THANKS BOB GLIDDEN. it’s the coolest thing ever in my 62 years.
He was the man and very humble to a point, when he dropped the clutch, it was take no prisoners. Love my pics too. Keep on rocking and rolling
I got to meet him in englishtown along with his son rusty what a class act he was so much more down to earth than warren Johnson was if you were too tall warren refused to have his pic taken with you he let my aunt take one but when my uncle asked he said umm mmm sorry sir .
@@stevenbean9706 Warren was a Giant DICK! So was Grumpy. The Coolest dude now is CLAY MILLICAN. love him.
@@stevenbean9706 I even have Etta’s autograph. Bob’s wife. From beech bend in 77 I believe. Billy and Rusty were little kids running around the pits. Great memories.
Well I agree the family of drag racing. If I get to interview Warren Johnson I will tell you what he said to me, stay tuned Steven
In Australia we used 2V closed chambers and found for street racing they were competitive, nothing like a good strong clevo 👍🏻😎
Hell Yeah Jeff! I know those 2v heads work well, with right combo.
I totally agree and have used those heads! There were only a couple of places back when I built them that could supply them and they weren't cheap! My set $1600 bare and unmachined. When I finished prepping them, I was almost $10K deep just in the heads!
That’s a lot of money for cast-iron to be had. They do work though, especially the Aussie 2V. And that price you can almost get a set of complete Billet heads. Thanks for watching Phil
302 heads on a 351.
I remember a Street Machine article about the head work of a potent street/strip XE Falcon. Instead of doing the usual 2V head with 4V valves combo, they kept the 2V 2.04" intake valves and put in 4V 1.71" exhaust valves. I always wanted to try that.
I bought a set of filled 4v heads in 1987. Damn! That engine had so much low/mid it was frightening. That's what I liked about 2v heads for the street. Best of both worlds if you're not turning 5500.
You are right. They work like a charm with right components. I will have to test these high ports.
I knew a few people who had Cleveland's. I knew they were good. But I didn't realize they were this good. Thank you for the history lesson DB G. Oh if I could go back again. Take care.
they are the best engines made , Gm never came close .
Jungle Jim, your most welcome. Just wait until I get these fire breathing monsters back, oh if I could go back….
Good bye Big Baby
Great video Tim. The Clevelands were definitely ahead of the curve. Imagine had that engine came out with 400-427 cubes from factory. History would definitely be different.
So true. It will be cool to how much power I get out of the TrackBoss 427 I am building. Goal is 850hp
Its called the 400m with some machine work its a factory stroker Cleveland
@@jasonhooey5677 right ! A very under used motor with good potential & availability.
They did...400M.
@@jasonhooey5677 The 400M in its day made more low end torque than the 460 BB of that time. I remember one of my dad's friends had a 400m in one of his pickup trucks and that thing made so much low end torque he was constantly replacing U-joints and rear ends in it lol.
I've shut down soooo many ignorance filled arguments with that jpeg showing the weight breaks in prostock the year before the 500 in³ rule. I love it Tim, shut down the haters ! 😆
I just show what is out there, if they do not want to hear or believe, no big deal, Cleveland to the front Chad..
Hi Tim, great video. I recall an article in a magazine back in the early 70's about the exhaust port plates. The article claimed that Budd Moore engineering developed the exhaust port modification for the Trans Am Boss 302 engine and that it was worth an extra 30 HP.
Cheers, from down under.
Thanks Ross. It is supposed to be Bob wendland from Ford Engineering, you did it first. Have a couple of guys from dept back there and they are digging up original drawing. May have them on a live chat. Stay tuned for more
Always loved those Cleveland's! Still have one in my 71Mach1 Mustang! Always strong!!
Love 71 Stangs Mike. Stick car?
It's just amazing.... They started building the 351 Cleveland back in 1969, 55 years ago... today they are still building and using this engine for racing and still winning races.... That should tell you who is BOSS !
Right on Thomas. I have the first cleveland block. It is from 1968. The Boss, that’s what I’m talking about 💯
@@DragBoss351Cleveland :-) !
@Thomasp671 The First 351 Cleveland Block SK6877
ua-cam.com/video/zirDZ-Sd7AU/v-deo.html
Hi Tim, its good to see someone that's into Cleveland's as much as I am, I race a ford Cleveland power probe over here in Australia it's a restricted class called G/Gas we have over 30 years R&D into our engine, we have to run 4v heads without any material added no plates or tongues cast alloy single 4150 manifold no welding or cutting allowed and a 750 holley with no body modifications must retain the choke horn, it runs 8.00 167 mph @ 2350 pounds not to bad with 50 year old cylinder heads , cheers Jason.
Cheers Jason. I have been racing Cleveland’s for 40 years. Looks like you got it down. That is faster than Glidden went in 81 with Fairmount. 8.28 at 165. What type of hp are you making. Be fun to feature your build, no secret stuff in general. Congratulations on those numbers and your combo. Glad you found DBG Mate
Really cool finding this channel now, my Dad was always really into old racing engine tech and he was mostly a 429/460 guy but he had a disassembled 351 Cobra Jet with the 4 barrel heads and 4 bolt main caps waiting to find a project. He passed away in December, so I inherited the Cleveland. I really wish I could build it with him and see him enjoy it, but I'm still excited to build it. I don't know what it'll be powering yet.
Jimbo. Thanks for being here. My dad help me build my first cleveland in 81, I was 16. He was not a Motörhead, but knew a lot about everything. Could take anything apart and fix it. He never saw me race, but did see some videos. Good luck with your project, it will come to you.
Well done, my friend! Oh my, mention of those shock towers again... Chrysler Hemi advocates may disagree about the Cleveland being he most regulated race engine back in the day but it is certainly one of the top two. We who competed in that era can well relate. B.T.W. To those haters that insist the closed chamber Cleveland cylinder head was simply a knock-off of the big block Chevrolet they are just wrong. There are consequential differences. Chief among them, port - runner spacing and design, valve angles and combustion chamber design. Both engine cylinder heads have strengths as well as design flaws individually and as compared. Over time, engine experts, aftermarket component manufacturers and suppliers, tuners and racers enhanced strengths and made improvements in order to correct inherent weaknesses. The result for both engines was much success in various forms of motorsports. Keep up the good work Tim and best to the family!
So true Bill, thanks for replying. You’re probably right the hemi was outlawed as well as the SOCH motor. it just seems that the Cleveland and cleveland style heads, .ie ran in so many other sanctions. Including boats, circle track and Scca and trans am. It has been outlawed, or ruled to death. You are so right they are not the same head, but people think they are, they don’t understand about ports and symmetry, is a big block Chevy a symmetrical head? there’s so many differences how are Chevy people, who say it’s a copy, just don’t understand. I should make a video just showing the comparisons between the two heads BBC and Cleveland. Thank you for your insight, and experience, I appreciate it. The family is doing well, as Is Zeus Stay tuned I got a lot more in store. Thank you appreciate you Bill
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I'm happy to contribute my two cents, Tim. Your subscribers obviously appreciate your review and renewal of Ford Cleveland engine history and all related to it. I think delving deeper into the Rat Engine to Cleveland cylinder head comparison would be a tremendous idea. I've worked with both and there are certainly distinct differences. Maybe you could have someone like Darin Morgan as a guest interview to address the (perhaps controversial) subject. Keep up with the quest!
@@billfioretti3013 another bonus idea. That would be perfect. Yes everyone loves the pro stock stuff, me included. I keep moving forward torch in hand. Stay tuned
4V irons for the win🏁
500-750hp+ potential in that head that no other oldschool oem has.
Filled, Hi-Port or not….they’re BadAss🏁
Thanks yanks, appreciate, yeah over 50 years out, and the their hold their own. thanks for watching...
@@DragBoss351Cleveland sure is an oldie, great vid👍🏼🏁 the weight breaks on that chart, Wow even the Hemi got some slack over the Cleveland’s lol, just goes to show nuthn was stopping that 4V🏁
i wonder if many did the “de-strokers” eg:340ci in them early days to counter them rules & then spin them Cleveland’s sky high in rpm with them high flowing 4Vs on top🤷🏻♂️ 340ci@7lb 2380lb race ready (1081kg) Badass
After having my first 4v Cleveland, I was ready to get rid of every thing else, again if u don't like them, its because you've never had one.
That is way to put it, well said Doug.
Goodbye
Why good bye 😅
I don’t tolerate bs, don’t have time to waste.
Awesome Video !!We had a 73/74 Gran Torino sport . 351 Cleveland,C6 transmission !! Loved that car !! oh yeah ,my mom had a lead foot .gas prices were around 25 to 30 cent's a gallon 😁
Thanks so much for the story. Love it. I had a 75. Red and white top.
I have started helping an old friend with his vintage class dirt car. He is running 351C's and it is a blast! A Couple track championships and many wins. The old iron is still one tough piece!! Love the channel buddy!
Thanks my friend. Always good to hear the ol girl is kicking a** and taking names
I’m getting ready to stroke a 351c out of my 70 cougar. So I’ve been down the Cleveland rabbit hole for a hot minute and this was very educational. Puts a solid visual image on the tech talk from the forums and articles.
Mine came with the 2v heads, I’m looking at the CHI 3V heads, but damn! They ‘spensive!!
Thanks for watching. Remember it cost money to go fast, but the best parts you can afford. Don’t be cheap, it will come back to bite you in the tail. Thanks
Always look forward to you sharing your knowledge and love of the Cleveland
Thanks Ben, glad your into it, stay tuned for more.
Enjoyed the video. Been a Ford guy since 1980. Always liked the FE, 335, and 385 series. Built both Clevelands and 385’s but never modified the exhaust side. Knew about the hi port plates. The 385 series DOOE-R heads are the Cleveland’s big brother heads and have monstrous ports and valves. The exhaust has the same restrictive design. I share your excitement for these engines.
Thanks so much for watching, and enjoying. I love the BBF, have never had an FE. Did you see that they high ported the Super Cobra jet heads too?
Yes, there’s a company near me that makes the 385 series high ports plates but the DOOE-R heads are becoming so rare that looking more at the Jon Kaase heads if adding more performance. Lots of choices out there.
@jimw255 yes Kaase p51 and sr 71 blow those heads out of the water. And so much lighter. My dream is a 600 ci, sitting in my 40 ford coupe.
I recently picked up a 1968 F-100 short bed with a 4 bolt main 351 Cleveland in it and 1971 quench chamber 4V heads on it. I’m really looking forward to fixing this truck up, yes I’m aware that Ford never put a 351 Cleveland into any truck.
Should be a killer machine. I love those trucks. Glad your here. Go back and look at my earlier vids on rebuilding and tech playlist. Thanks for being here James.
Actually they did!
Ford used 302 and 351 Clevelands only in 'tdentside F'series 100, 250 and 350 trucks in Australia..
They were the only V8 option from 1974 - 1982 here until fuel injected l Windsor's replaced them in the later trucks.
@rossawood5075 thanks for the history
Had a Torino GT in 1970 with the 4v Cleveland and a top loader 4 speed. Loved that car!
Thanks Gary, for sharing with me. I bet is was a hell of a ride
awesome video Tim, there is a lot of work put into that boss head to make it really flow. just amazed by what they did back then
I know it. they were the innovators for what we have today. Just think how many hours they spent on them.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland so true, but also as you said who came up with the idea to cut off the exhaust port and bolt on a new one. big call and really inovative thinking to do that
@@craigtuck1741 They knew that unwanted, designed in restriction in the exhaust port needed to go, if it was to realize its true potential !!
Always wanted a car with a Cleveland. Love to see them getting the respect.
You have to earn respect and I think they did. Appreciated
Excellent videos. I grew up Windsor and finally see why the Cleveland architecture was so respected. The CHI heads carry it forward and are a key in many 600-1000HP N/A builds.
Hell yeah Dennis thanks. Have to go back and see what there is. Try to stick with cars and racing but, I may make a vid about anything I do in the garage. Thanks for subscribing
The blocks are weak. I'm a Ford guy! When nitrous oxide really came into the go-to for cheap hp we started seeing blocks break. The 351w is a stronger block, but that heavy crankshaft with 3" mains! However, you could build a cheap stroker using the 400m crankshaft, stock rods and 302 boss pistons with cheap second hand aluminum heads! But, aftermarket heads came along and that was the end of that!
@@markmccarty9793 The block without hard block should hold 700HP. So for a naturally aspirated powerhouse it should be fine. Of course nitrous ontop of that will eventually damage it. I'm not sure how Cleveland blocks Break but we all know Thinwalll 5.0 blocks can split in half, tear the mains out or crack thr lifter valley. :-)
@dennisrobinson8008 ok, so let's say you get a stroked Cleavlands say 393ci, then you pop 250-300 on it! You're past that against the studder box! I'm 64, know guys that ran those things! And just because the block will hold 700hp doesn't mean the reat will! The only place you see those things are in stock elimator or classes like that! 20 years ago I mentioned preping one of those things to a guy nearly my age then! He stepped over to his truck, pulled a mangled rod out, and said, "Be prepared for this!" Another old guy ran stroker Cleavlands, watched him go thru 3 in one season! Those things should be used for restoration projects. No offense, they're worth a lot more for that. Everyone is running aftermarket blocks, cranks, rods, and pistons now!! Cars run faster off the showroom floor than the average weekend warriors 30 years ago. Just go have fun.
@@markmccarty9793 That all sounds about right.
I don't know why this video popped up, but fun to listen to it at and read all the comments.
Best thing to do when taking a break.
Thanks for watching. Check out my channel live chats. There is so much to learn.
I had a set of boss 302 heads cut in Indianapolis and aluminum high ports were added at that time. That was about 25 years ago and I still run that Cleveland in a 1986 mustang.
Very cool to hear. I can’t wait to build a motor with the high ports, Dyno it and test it. Be fun to test some things with it. Love the 4 eye.
We had chevies, mopars and Fords in the 70’s. My two friends and I chose a 72 Mach One with a balanced, blueprint 351 Cleveland for street racing with a 391 limited slip posi and a Ford 4 speed. It pulled fkn wheelies and never, ever lost all over Michigan as we raced for fishing and camping money roaming the state every summer.
Sounds like a great choice and you built it right. Looks like good time you will never forget. Appreciate you
Mopar magazine did an article comparing the "X" head to the"J" head. They found the " J " flowed better on balance because the "J" head had a slightly smaller intake valve and the exhaust port couldn't be opened enough to compensate for for the 2.02 intake valve.
Rubbish, the X and the J are the Same heads. Only difference is the 2.02 intake valve.
I love my Cleveland engine more than any other. It's a small block with big block attitude
I do two chrome. I whipped many a big block, With a little Cleveland. Also nothing sounds like a cleveland at high rpm. Thanks for watching
@@DragBoss351Cleveland is it correct nomenclature to call a cleveland a small block ?
@@cammontreuil7509 not really correct, from Ford's own description. that was the point. Call it what you may, let the engine do the talking Cam,.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland so true. Ford literature called it a medium block belonging to the 335 family.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I've built at least 70 Clevelands. I know what walk they talk. Engine needs plenty of valve spring.
Cool info love the nostalgia, as an engine builder and head Porter for 31 years I can appreciate their Innovative minds
They were way ahead of their times that is for sure. And this is where The basis for high-performance started, that we have today.
Tim, us backyard Cleveland racers in DFW, back in the day, would do our cheap build-ups by filling the "dead" space on the 4V exhaust port, to straighten it out. Helped with the low end torque, leaving the line!
Hell yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. I can’t wait to try I feel port on iron head and see how it works. Very cool thank you
They still sell 'port plates' to do that...
@@BuzzLOLOL Yes, Price Motorsports sells exhaust plates.
I had a 1970 Boss 302 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351 Cleveland 4V engine and a 1969 Mach 1 with a 351 Windsor. My Cleveland was a rocket, I was clocked at 150 mph on the New England Thruway back in 1975/76. Best engine ever with no mods, just headers, dual point distributor and locker. It had a 4 speed manual tranny.
Hey Jim, now you’re talking. I wonder how the boss 302 compared to the cleveland? 150 miles an hour ain’t no joke, hope you’re hanging the hell on. Stay tuned sorry for the delay, try not to forget the comments.
Always enjoy your videos, Tim. The mighty 335, is all I can say! Cheers, have fun.
Thank you, no more needs to be said, let the engine do the talking is how I say it. Glad you’re here mate
Dude 4V big port head were first used on 1970 XW GT Falcons then in the legendary XY GHO Falcons,then XA GT 's and finished production by 11/73 in the XB GT falcons. Late November of 1973 the Australian designed and built 2V Heads were fitted . Ford Australia didn't use their own locally cast blocks until in 1980/81 ish.Hope this helps,cheers mate
I thought the patterns were sent to ford I. 74 after our production ended? Cheers
Correct
For guys that don't know, there was a 9.2" deck 351 "W"indsor # XE 93532 race block made back in 1966 way before a "C"leveland block was even on the drawing board & this 351w XE 93532 9.2" deck Windsor race block got as big a 391+ ci back in 1967 for Can-Am racing. 👍
also 302 & 351 windsor XE race blocks were tested with canted valve head prototypes in 1968
& there were plans WAY BACK in 1964-65 for a 7L aluminum Windsor race eng for Can Am racing.
There is so much history to dig around and find and present it’s amazing. Do you have a wealth of knowledge I appreciate you contributing. It’s fun to talk all race parts. I One guy offered me an engine , It was an Xe Block with Xe boss 302 heads, it was raced in Trans Am racing if I’m not mistaken. I thought he said it was from the number 9 Mustang. I think that was George Folmer. I have a pic somewhere it’s crazy looking I think he want to 10 grand for it. Maybe he would take less if I walked up there with cash. Because I do a video on this I’m a keep going with this and get some pictures and see what I can find about the Can-Am stuff appreciate your input as always.
1982 drag Racing at Cecil County Raceway in my 1971 Torino GT 351C 4V 4speed with 4.56 Trac loc. miss the memories, Fantastic engine. Cut my teeth on the 335 series engines. One of my Favorites. Love seeing the old school stuff talked about.
Your most welcome. Thank you for taking the time to share the memories. That’s when I was racing my first Cleveland too.
Sorry about this, I have to wait until tomorrow to get all the neighbors in the house so we can all enjoy your newest video news by the DBG Productive! Hopefully you are going to have time to get one done with your work and Andy and David's MUBoss. That I will have to bet that you are real deal with the Drag world of the Common man today. I can't wait to see the new Motor that Andy has been assembled and hear your voice on what you think of the Motor and what it is going to perform and hold up. It is one of the most interesting 🤔 ones that I have been able to get to see for a good long time.
Sure will Jan, John Wilburn asked me to be a guest on his live chat but I’m working so I have to be another time. But yeah I can’t wait to see how Andy’s mixed up Boss runs at the track. I wonder how close he is. Tell all your family and friends hi from DragBoss and his family and Zeus. He is an amazing dog with to see a video on him.
My step dad would've liked you, he was the best ford man i ever knew, an absolute wizzard at fords, he died in 2014 from Cancer and it crushed me, i wish he was still here, im about to start building my 302 in a 88 mustang and i just dont have the knowledge itll be my 1st build and im 45.
Rip to him. There is plenty of help on the net and you tube. Really have to have a goal and build from there. Love those fox bodies. Glad your here Brandon. Look through my play list of engine building and see what you think.
Tim We had the Cleveland in Australia from late 69 in the XW Falcon the first run of the XW had a Winsor the later ones had the Cleveland 351 and the Cleveland ran All the way to the XE Falcon in 84 we had a great run of these you still can't beat them we blue a Z28 Camaro away in fourth gear he was kiking it back but we just let him come up beside us a then just left him for dead still in fourth all the way at 140 mph you can't beat that Cleveland power
Hell Yeah Christian, Rock that cleveland Mate. Thanks so much
Back in the day, I did some tuning work on a (1972 ?) Mustang for a body shop that just wanted the Cleveland V8 engine to run and get it delivered. It was making some noises under the valve covers so opened it up and found it was from the push rods, worn badly as they passed thru the head. Popped the rods out, flipped them around so that the good part of the rod area passed thru the head solving the noise issue.
After some tuning the engine sounded really good so the shops tech took it out on the street, stomped on it and that stang laid rubber half way down the street (was on a commercial street.) I was impressed and did note at the time that the valves were “splayed”, a design first found on the “427 mystery engine” from GM in the early 1960’s which evolved into the BBC. As for the BOSS-302 vs DZ 302, Ford definitely had the better head design vs the straight SBC head design.
Rock on Gary. Sounds like you gave that cleveland just what it needed. Wonder how that stuff happened. I think the earliest cantedvalve was the Mopar, and Chevy, and ford has canted valves to, but that’s where the similarity ends when you talk in Cleveland and big block Chevy. Thanks for watching my channel I really appreciate it Gary stay tuned I got way more in store, don’t forget to like and share please
Hi Tim, the XE Falcon in Australia came with the 351 and 302 Cleveland engines officially until November 1982. Its elleged that there were still some XE falcons produced with Clevelands after that date but in October 1984 the production of XE falcons ended with the new XF falcon only coming in 6cyl.
Thanks for the exact date Randle. I was just going from memory, Always learning something new. Stay tuned, way more in store.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that ford OZ kept building them for a while after they stopped going into our local cars . De tomaso had them in panteras up till something like 1988?
My Aussie delivered 1985 Ford F100 had a factory 351C. It was the last year they came with the 351C in the F100. The next year they switched to the 5.0 Windsor motor.
@@LS1Cobra Thanks, appreciate the heads up
@@watsisbuttndo829 No, The DeTomaso "Longchamp" of the early 80s used the Australian Cleveland. Panteras used the US Cleveland.
Teenager in the late seventies, bought a 70 cougar with a buddy. I took the engine for my 56 ford Victoria. 351cleveland 2v. Four barrel aluminum intake and a Holley 600. Most fun I ever had.
I bet it was rippin and tearing Shaggy, thanks for story, had a 2bbl Cleveland that would rip too.
Was amazed how good the 351C 2BBL ran, in a 1970 Ranchero, I worked on 6 years ago. Original engine with almost 100k??
HD timing chain, electronic ignition and a full tuneup. Afterwards asked myself why more Street Machines don’t use this engine?? Definitely feared back when I was in HS.
Love those cutaways
JT: Orlando FLA
Main issue is availability, and also their oiling system is not understood well, and there’s so much parts for the Windsors, and Windsors can make so much power with Current blocks and heads, people rather take the easier route. Thanks for watching
100K miles would be simply well broken in...
@@BuzzLOLOL I agree, my best raced Cleveland, the block had 160k on before building it.
I had a 70 Ranchero GT with a 351C 2V and it ran really good,just a gear swap and a big Holley 2V with headers and it was way stronger than people gave it credit for. I had a 70 1/2 Falcon with the 4V Cleveland and I hated to sell it. I wish I had it now. A 780 3310 Holley and some really voluptuous exhaust manifolds. People swore it was a 429. It ran toe to toe with a 68 428 CJ Torino.
I really wish they had made the head in 4.63 bore space to fit an FE. Man! The 4 V head is the best head you can make, and I wish they had done that for the FE.
FYI. I have a December 1983 build Bronco here in Western Australia with a factory 351 Cleveland. Unfortunately it had been fitted with a rebuilt motor before I got it. From factory it probably had the 4 bolt Nascar block. Waddel Wilson wrote a book that I read many years ago that detailed the pinning of the cylinder heads for Nascar application in order to stop the deck flexing and support head gasket sealing. If you can find it, it's quite detailed. Right down to bolt size, placement including angles, and even tap drill sizes. I might have a copy somewhere. Regards Greg
It would be cool to see Greg. I found out from another subscriber, that it may have been to prevent blowing the head gasket. I was always told that it was to prevent deformation of the intake valve seat, causing Poor seal. If you have the book can you find it hook me up to be cool to see I’ll take care of you let me know and stay tuned
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have Waddell's book. Another potential loner to DBG???
@@DragBoss351Cleveland sent you some photos of some of the relevant pages out of the book. Some of the information is very different to what others say, particularly with oiling systems.
I ran a 1970 Ford 400 M racing engine on the street. Using 351 4bbl quench heads from a Cyclone, hand made spacer plates, comp cams 305, 750 vac secondary Holley, Edelbrock intake, Doug Thorley headers and more. My 73 LTD ran in the 13's! Through a TreeMaster built C6 and a State Police 4:11 posi rear! Still have it in my garage with all the drive train. A modern build from Hot Rod in 2018 had my engine pushing 600HP without boost. I was ahead of my time. Pat Ganhal (sp) wrote a book on 1960/70 Ford engines. A bible in my opinion.
Sounds good Peter, the 400 is an overlooked engine for sure. Now imagine stroking that another easy 34 in.³ for 434 that would be even more of a torque monster. Wow. Thanks for watching I love the book too.
Tim great stuff, as I understand the ring lands on the Clevo’s are lower than the other Engines with out Canted valves a small amount of fuel was lost there and they could never get them running clean enough for the US, so lucky us in Australia love My 408ci Cleveland great engine in My book cheers Mick Australia.
Cheers Mick, I cannot say I don’t know the specs of the ring lambs locations top of my head. That’s possible but I can tell you when you stroke a cleveland, your into the pin area usually.
Sweet! Loved your informative video! I had a Red 72 Gran Torino Sport with a 351 Cleveland Loved it & miss It now... Lord bless you and Godspeed from The Yakima Valley in Washington State 🙌🏽🙏🏽🕊️
Hell yeah David, appreciate you being here. All my favorite years is 72, I love the front end and the factor hood scoop really sets it off if it had that. I had a 75, with a 302 beat the living hell out of it, until I hit a dumpster. RIP Torino, stay tuned
The canted valve design was tried by Chrysler on the poly head and Chevrolet on the Rat engine.
The 351 Cleveland should have been the engine in the Fox Mustang.
Bob Glidden had the ability to make ANY engine competitive , remember his 340 Arrow ?
Yes sir. Another championship in 79. Be a different story with the cleveland there.
That Mopar had a big weight break, and the amount of mods Glidden did to make it competitive was insane! He even had to change the lifter bore angle.
@@paulegan1296 and different rocker arms for certain cylinders.
Great Video Tim...Really Shows the guts of the 4V Head...I went in the 9s with my Port Plate Cleveland back in 1990... The plate conversion Showed about 40hp in a Drag Race Combo....One other thing to Touch on...The "Load Bolt'...Modification wasn't for the intake Seat...It was to Support the Combustion Chamber at the end of the head...where the large open water jacket was...This open spot would cause head Gasket Failure ..as the chamber would push away from the fire Ring....Installing the Load bolt...then milling the head...would guarantee the Chamber couldn't deform...Great job Tim...Keep em Coming..👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💪😎🏁🏁🏁🏁
Hell yeah Frankie, that’s rockin without a doubt. I’ve later learned that was the reason, appreciate you give me the heads up again. But I also thought I read that somewhere and when I look at it physically, it looks like it does support that too who knows, that’s what it took to figure that out in the first place it blows me away I’m glad you enjoy the channel try to keep it real, cause I’m just a guy in his garage doing what I normally do, keep Cleveland alive, teach my kids about life, and you’re always learning something new at DBG. You keep cooking those crazy recipes they always look good in the pictures, later my friend
Such amazing intuition back in "the day".
I especially like Glidden's Inline 6 with the Cleveland heads. Awesome
edit.... I've gotta say that your vid was excellent....E.W''s was good but......
dont think glidden ever ran a 6 cyl
Thanks Neil. Appreciate it. I never Glidden ran any six cylinders with cleveland heads. Bruce Sizemore did and Sherman Sligh. You can hear how Sherman made his head, o one of my live chats. Thanks
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Yes I stand corrected.... it was Sherman Sligh
@@neal6418 no worries, but that 6 cylinder cleveland headed monster was wicked as hell. Any way you look at it. Thanks
I am still using the Clevland and have several sets of stock DOAE 4. heads in my hangar. (the airport closed) it makes a great storage shed! I am down to my last stock 4 bolt block but run a 2 bolt currently. I am one year younger than Tommy Nickerson, I knew who he was because his shop was in my hometown. I am 73 so don't think I will get to another project after I finish my 50 F1 project. I am in the finishing 95% done with all the time consuming easy stuff to finish. Like wireing, glass, bleed brakes etc. It surprises me how long it takes to crawl under and get back up after 55 years of hotrodding. Great info!
Tell me about it. I did it all the time although not 73, sure hope I can do it at that age or have a lift. 2 bolts as good as 4 so keep on keeping on get your projects done and enjoy them. Marty
Yes at 71 years, I also find the crawl under a lot more difficult, however the Cleveland is one of the prettiest engines to look at when dressed up in an open rod or hood up display and at our age a front mounted distributor has its advantages!
I also have a considerable amount of Australian Cleveland parts including a few pairs of the closed chamber 58cc 302 heads, 2 bolt blocks have always stood up to what is thrown at them IMO.
Hi LOVE your videos but I need to correct you on possible other makers canted valve small block heads. The poly heads on mopar small block are one brand that comes to mind production started 1956 approx 12 years before the Cleve heads. great videos keep it up.
Thanks man. I was not considering stuff from the 50s my fault. And never even knew much of the poly. Thinking time period of racing. Appreciate it
Hey brother Mikey from California. I told you many times I was raised by ford guys so I love the brand but I'm a Oldsmobile guy myself and I have a set of rocket racing heads and the manifold that comes with them is too low and crap. So my buddy at a New York bill travato happen to have a Billy Glidden 2865 manifold that I'm going to cut in three pieces and adapted to my heads. If you're interested in the build I will send you pictures through my journey much respect and love the channel keep putting great stuff out
Sounds good Mike PS, Warren Johnson agreed to be on DBG and a live chat, so hopefully we can get that scheduled in the near future. It’s something you want to listen to and watch
Well done Tim as always, keep up the good work!!
Trying to keep the cleveland alive, and dig through the pro stock history. Appreciate it Marc
I have a 72 Cougar xr7 Ive had since high school Over the last three years I have completely redone the entire care and IM almost done, its running a built 351c i just added a set of 225 Cylinder Heads from trickflow and all Im waiting on is my new Davis Unified Ignition for it and it will be back on the street, You just cant beat a well running Cleveland
Nice deal. I had a 71 xr7. One of the best cars I ever had. Only paid 20 bucks for it. Would not start, owner did not want it. Had stuck points. Yours should be a powerhouse on the street.
Great video Tim … thanks again 👍
Thanks Perry, Hope it made you smile.
My Uncle owns (2) 302 boss mustangs.In the late 80’s I remember he decided to go all out on one of them.He had said all the power is in these heads and he pulled them off and him and his buddies went to work on them at his shop.His buddy had spent 3 weeks straight porting the heads and also the manifold.They spent time on the springs and valve’s and when they were done OMG the car sounded way different.I remember people would come and knock on his door late at night asking him for A race.This is how it was back then and he would go out and race them.I remember this happening A few times because he was very well known in the valley.He would always come back with A big smile on his face.That car was so fast at the time.It RPM’ed in A blink and it felt like A sumo wrestler on your chest.I called him up A few weeks ago to help me finish building my 406 sbc with AFR 195’s.He giggled and brought up how his old 302 Cleveland heads are still better.Lol
Joshua. Those are the stories that are awesome they bring back all the memories, you can smell the race feel like that. Thanks for sharing that. Hope to be able to have the same results as your uncle although people won’t come to my door and ask to race. Doberman on Guard. Stay tuned
Ford Australia introduced the 351C in October 1970 in the XY and discontinued in late 1982 with the XE but there was a surplus of engines and they were made available up to early 1984 in the falcon on special orders and we're available in F trucks up til 1985...My cousin drag raced clevelands and purchased 2 surplus crate engines in 1984 for $3000 one of them stayed in the plastic until 1992...in hindsight he should have bought 10 of then.
Thanks Dave for laying the details. I thought 72, man always wanted a factory engine like that. Cool. Cheers
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I think he's referring to when the US sourced engines were used in Aus (1970), not when the tooling was sent over. (72 ?)
Ok. Wonder what engines they were, specs
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I think we got the hi comp 4v and std 2v to start with, then we got the open chamber 4v towards the end, we then started making the 2v's ( 351/302 -both with 4bbl manifolds later on) here.
You guys had it going on from the start with Cleveland’s. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoy the channel mate
Nice vid. I owned a 351 Clevo in an Aussie 1979 ZJ Fairlane. Was my fathers car, he bought new it at our local car show as the top of the range car as a present to himself when he retired. I inherited it after he died. I think it had a 4 barrel Holley carb. It was our family car and had three kids in the back seat until 1991. With great regret I sold it and got a Land Cruiser. I have tried to find it to buy it back but I am told that the Clevo and trans and diff would have been cloned into a replica Falcon GT which is more desirable in Aus.
Appreciate the history, my friend. Thank you so much things work out the way they are supposed to John something will show up.
That Cleveland was not given the respect it deserves it'll outrun most anything if they simply would have just put a bigger cam in it that's all it needed.
And for needs to bring it back just aluminum block aluminum heads push rod lifters but with coyote induction and they will back Chevy in a corner just like they did in 1970
I agree Rono. They hold their own against anything out there. Rock on
I don't know what I stumbled onto? But this is packed with the best information. Wow. Subscribed! Very good explanations for the modifications.
Thanks Bruce. Lots of cam vids too, the whole 409 cleveland build is documented. Stay tuned
🥝✔️ ❤️ Because air flow is a science, and our learning is in constant lag, our descriptive terms change and are behind the evolution since Jim Macara did the first ports and water jackets in late 1967. So lazy ports and exhaust requiring back pressure, they are just convenient terms. Like "Nature Abours a Vacuum" was in 350 B.C. when Aristotle pegged it. Love the real life cut-aways, love this whole video.
Thanks Dean, I made it a few times, not perfect, but tired of editing, and said let it roll.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Everything you said was perfect. Time is gonna be friendly to you. Excellent, World Class Content that Stands up on its own. 🌎🇺🇲
Thank you Dean. I just want to show everyone that missed it what the pro stock years were about, and we’re all the high-performance modifications, maybe not all but a lot were developed. And I can’t wait to get one of these call pro stock engines running that is my goal. I am slow but sure, I roll on my own drum if you know what I mean
Fantastic video! I've subscribed to follow you and I'm anxious to see the dyno pull! Back in the 70's I helped a friend who had a '63 Falcon with a 351 Cleveland, tunnel ram with two hollies, we dominated the 11.00 class bracket racing at Famoso, she would run 11.01-5's consistently, we ran our fastest pass at Lyon's the weekend before the last Drag Race, 10.67 with a 33,000 pound car, we dynoed the car on a wheel dyno but it only went up to 600 HP and we pegged it. That inspired this young man to start building a Gapp & Roush clone with a Boss 302 bracket car, at the '74 Winternationals at Pomona I measured everything on the G&P Pinto. I bought a wrecked '72 Pinto and stripped it down to a body in white, started building my frame and when I tried to fit the body on the frame when I had the rear end at the right height the front wasn't correct, when I had the front end at the correct height the rear end wasn't correct, ...I was so frustrated! I was building the car in my garage after work, finally I looked up the telephone number for G&P Racing in Livonia, Michigan and called them, I explained to the man who answered the phone who I was and what my problem was, I heard him call out, "Hey Jack, it's the kid from Pomona that measured the car, he can't get the car to be the right heights front and back!" I heard this reply, "Tell him that car was built in a wind tunnel!" Sadly life got in the way, my second daughter was born and I sold the car before it was finished, ...thanks for the memories.
So cool to hear your memories. I can’t wait to build my own and get it done. I can’t wait to Dyno, And test the engine. Man you grew up in a great time that’s for sure. Sorry about the Pinot deal but no time better than the present to start building another one. Stay tuned a lot more in store explore the channel and see what kind of stuff you will find. Stay tuned
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks, I'm looking forward to you posts, as for me it's a little to late, I'm a Calvary Chapel missionary to Tahiti, been here 31 years, nothing but white sand beaches, coconut trees and the blue lagoon. What caused me to give up the Pinto is I lived about 10 minutes from the home of James Coburn of the Rain for Rent Special AA Fuel Dragster, a friend took me to visit him and Roger was their working on a motor, at first I was mesmerized, but then I started looking around, the dragster was in the trailer parked in the street by the curb in front of the house, the tow vehicle was parked in the driveway, there were thousands of dollars in blocks, heads, pistons, rods cams and everything else necessary and all I could see was dollar signs, there was more money in the dragster many times over than the cost of the house. When went back home my first daughter came running up to greet me, I new at that moment I needed to make an decision, ...race car or family. No regrets bro...
@@Katifda you had your moment in the sun, and now enjoy the sun even more. Glad you have the memories to reflect on. Yes I seen the money in blocks and heads and cars, but I try and balance it all and get family involved. Glad here and be nice to roll out there and enjoy it with the family too.
Yep, that's the year Ford transitioned from the FE family to the 385 family and then got squashed by EPA regulations regarding emissions. That's why most of the family was stunted. Ford had to change focus from high performance to emissions (enter the vacuum hose spiders).
Ford made a D3 4v head. Same intake port but smaller valve.
Some Pantera owner channels say it's the better head.
Personally, I have found that head to make great torque with a flat top.
Great video Tim!
Rock on Pete, thanks. I am glad you like it
In the late 90s...i rebuilt a cleveland(nothing fancey or crazey)triple checking all the clearances,and ring gaps...mine had the 2v heads...my cam shaft was a unknown..slightly larger than stock installed straight up..after the cam break in,i installed it in a 1977 granada,useing the 6cly torque converter that came with the c-4 trans...i installed a 9in rear from a.granada w/4whl disc brakes...with a 3:55 gear...it was a.beast...and it lookd like a factory install...
Art, Man that sounds like a wicked machine. It’s innovation like that that really brings home the point of working with what you got. Like me I do what works for me. I do love those old Granadas, and sure want to build a pro stock Fairmont, I wanna add it on the list. I’m glad you’re here and appreciate your input, and your telling us about your Cleveland powered monster. Stay tuned my friend
Thanks guys for helping me to get to 12k, Subscribers, thank you, let’s keep rocking, Pro Stocks Cams on deck. By the end I of the video you will know exactly what they mean and how it works. I mention this 408 cleveland and the Custom by myself and Mark at Bullet Cams , the ole roller going on 10 years 🤔 maybe I need a new cam 😉273/284 @.050, .744/.727, 109 in at 105. 752hp at 7600 here is the 408 Cleveland best of 9.66@ 137+
DragBoss On The Street 4
ua-cam.com/video/e67LsyCD38E/v-deo.html
I’ve build a few 4V clevo’s with intake port tongues , mild bowl work, 434 cube (arrow block) 11.1 compression standard TFC intake manifold, mild street solid roller 260@ .050. Made an easy 672 hp, 582 ft/pounds all on pump fuel for a weekend cruise. A Bit more cam, port intake and it’ll easy make 700+hp/ 600 ft pounds. Clevo’s are an awesome engine. I love BB Chevys too.
Sounds pretty good for small cam, and pump fuel Michael. How much did you have to machine the Arrow block? I like BB chevy too, but Cleveland is not a copy, as many chevy guys think.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I agree DB , not a copy of Big block Chevy etc…arrow block got all the regular machining a clevo usually receives. . Good quality block. Getting hard to buy here in Australia. Limited production and they’re all getting snapped up quickly or they’re already pre-sold.
Not sure why so hard to get. I would love to have one. But I’m happy with my all aluminum TrackBoss 427, now hopefully get that done, with parts issues taken care of.
Open and closed chamber heads. Best small block ever made!
Open and closed case, Cleveland..
Great video, MPG made port plates for the 351C woke it up on the low end...
Don’t know much about them, have seen them back in the day
Good to see those details instead of hearsay thank you !
Right on, a picture is worth 1000 words, and sometimes videos even better. This is the stuff we wanna investigate and test, see what others hidden secrets are out there in the pro stock world, stay tune
I rebuild a set of Holman & Moody 429 Boss heads years ago. The heads had 2 plugs per camber and the floor of the ports was filled with epoxy!
Sounds like secret stuff. Love the work they did back in the day.
Yeah very cool stuff! I took pictures if I can find them ill try to share them with you.@@DragBoss351Cleveland
@bobg3034 yes email them to me.
1965 Falcon Sedan Delivery was Mine and I slipped in a 4BBL 351Cleveland from the junkyard, bought it off a pallet of engines headed for Mexico in El paso , ran the drags almost every weekend for a year and won many matches, 372 gears in the rear and Ford toploader 4spd, I miss the car and those engines, I worked in a machineshop in Alamogordo .. New Subscriber for you.
Thanks David I appreciate the sub. I also appreciate hearing history. That’s a very unique vehicle, how hard was it to put a Cleveland in it and what headers did you use? I think you’re gonna enjoy it here, way more in store.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I installed the engine when I was at Holloman AFB. pulled the 200 six at the auto hobby shop and with a sledge hammer massaged the shock towers until my Ford "Wedge" motor would fit and ran the stock manifolds, never did find headers that would even come close to fitting, also I put in a stock 9" rear from a Ranch wagon , had a Torsen differential in it by chance, also mustang five lug front drums and went racing stock intake and all.. 650cfm Holly. Best time was 10:56 would run 11's all day long and I drove it to and from the races every time, never let me down.
My Boss at "Morris" Machine shop in Alamogordo was Morris Calkins the AHRA Tech Director at the time. I did the heads and all Valve work at the shop. Only 212 of the Delivery rigs were made, I know where the car is to this day.
See David, that’s what’s up is channels about. Discussing your experience, your pitfalls, and your successes. It’s an example for others. When I read this, it makes me smile, I’m not sure what time frame we’re talking about but obviously it’s in the 70s I would say. I always like the Sedan delivery for a tow vehicle, thank you for sharing this memory with me, and the subscribers and read the comments. I’m not sure if subscribers do read the comments some comment on others but I don’t really know what you guys think about the comments thank you.
One of my cousins had a '71 Mercury Cyclone with the 351 C. Big car and he rarely got out run. As i recall it was a big block killer.
That is good to hear Don, that is a big ol gurl.
Nice vid mate. Here in Oz, we do what we can with what we have, and due to 4Vs being relatively scarce, it was pretty common to mod a 2V head for a decent street combo, starting with a 302 closed chamber, porting and fitting 4V intake valves while relieving the chambers to suit.
Currently, a company in Melbourne called Pavtek does a really sweet CNC 2V iron package that flows around what a stock 4V does, and the workmanship looks superb. Flow potential is around mid-500s in hp.
I’ve seen those heads beautiful chambers and CNC job. I was thinking the flow potential is more in the 600to 700 range. I would think the 4v heads had to be all over the place down there, but I guess not.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland unfortunately, the only 4Vs here came on complete import motors up until the first series of XBGT. From 74 onwards, all engines were 2Vs but the performance versions like the GTs got local 4-barrel manifolds in spread, square and Motorcraft carb patterns.
We only ever cast 2V open and closed heads, which form the vast majority of clevo heads in Oz.
A bare or rebuildable set of 4V open chambers will go for around 2K, closed more like 3. A built set might fetch 5K. This is all due to the classic resto market here.
@@gergatron7000 Blows me away, can but a set cheap for 250-500 bucks. Thanks for telling us all that. I did not know that they only casted 2v heads after 74. Cheers mate
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Sadly not.
Crazy stuff.
Hi Tim, thanks for the info. Love your passion for the Cleveland engine, the best that Ford ever built..
Cheers, from down under.
P.S. Keep up the good work
Thanks Ross, I agree with you 💯. Glad you enjoy the channel, lot to explore. Cheers Mate 🇦🇺
Shii... My Pantera came with one stock! "330" HP. She's spiced up a little bit now, Had a Roush sticker in the valve cover, and a cut out in the trunk tub for a ...TURBO!
Love those cars. Be cool to drive on the autobahn. Turn up the boost.
I was fortunate to have owned a Cleveland in a 71 TorinoGT my buddy had a SS 454 Chevelle 4sp . He had rode with me a few times before he got his Chevelle and no matter how much I said I would spot him I could never talk him into a stoplight to stoplight race it had the C6 auto and I can still remember the difference when I put that 750 spread bore on the top it was hard to keep the front wheels on the ground. Man I miss that car I got my very first ticket in that car . The amount of speed over as the officer wrote unestamated
Right on James. Hammer time. I bet that car rocked. And it was no lightweight either. I would love to see that race.
Bro I love your show , I’ve got a 79 F100 with Australian 351 Cleveland early 70’s as it was a swap ! The extremely rare ‘71 Mustang Shelby Cobra 🐍 GT500 was also a 351 Cleveland, All the best from Adelaide South Australia 🇦🇺
Cheers Mate. Thanks for watching. Cleveland to the front. Appreciate all the Cleveland’s built in 🇦🇺
Thank you for posting this! A long time back I first got into big block mopars, eventually worked with a Pontiac guy which led me to respect the Pontiac big block. Always disliked the Chevy boys, neutral on fords until now! I’ve learned much about the Cleveland from your vid! Had a buddy that ran a wheel standing falcon with a Cleveland back then! Now I understand!!!
I don’t dislike anybody for what they like. When they spew bs them I loose respect for them. Shows they do understand the concepts that there is more to engines, than parts. Once you get that things change. Every manufacturer had some bad way ahead of their time parts. I am glad that I could teach you something. A win win situation thanks
Pontiac never had a big block
Yep same block, olds the same
I always knew the valve arrangement and operating angles used together, as a poly-angle setup, in reference to the literal definition being "A product of angles". The canted valve arrangement, along with the opposing angles of the operation, gave the little giant some fantastic potential right out of the box. In the 4 short years that Ford made them, in the start of the OPEC and emissions wars to boot, it has been the grandfather of what tech has been developed since then. I hope you and yours are doing well sir, I've been trying to rehab hard for my heart lately, and haven't been on much.
Hell yeah Elmer. You got that right, also add insurance companies to the OPEC. Yes my family is doing well, thank you for asking. Rehab hard for your heart, did you have bypass? Or stenting. Let me know we will keep you in our prayers🙏
Yes, Ford copied the Chrysler "Poly Head" Semi Hemi as it was called, small block from the late 1950s. The Poly Mopar is a canted valve V8 engine. They switched to the inline upright wedge heads to fit the A body Valiants etc. Note, the Aussie Hemi 6 is also a canted valve semi hemi.
@@kramrollin69 Not sure about copied, but all good, thanks for watching.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 😄Them damn Mopar guys who also own Fords, always flappin their gums...Mopar this Mopar that....☺
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Triple bypass. Right now, only 35%, but it isn't going to get me just yet, lol. Thank you for the thoughts and prayers.
Excellent video! My most favorite car I owned was my '70 Mach 1 (351C4V) It was FAST!
Very cool! Thanks for sharing. Love those cars
Have Cleveland for sale, completely worked, came out of a 71 Ford Cougar. Approx 5k miles, wrecked car in ice storm, side swiping guardrails..
Maybe get 1/2 of what you have in it.
Glad to hear U bring up our Australian clevo
Hell yeah! You guys kept the cleveland alive 🇦🇺
I was lucky enough to have a ride in a boss 302 powered 66 mustang with 4 speed and i tell you it was a ride i will never forget because the driver wasn't shy about pounding the snot out of it.
Wide open throttle shifts just about put me in the back seat.
And yes the tires were crying for their mom.
And they say those engines are dogs at low speeds, sounds like this was not.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland
The factory rated them at 290hp but they were actually 350hp and the race engine was 440-450 hp
With such big ports they come alive above 3000 rpm
I saw a video that may explain why the caps get too little oil. It shows that the drainage holes are way too high to cool the spings in racing envirements. With the heads being the priority, the heads will hold 1-1/2 litres each side at high rev's. With so much oil trapped in the heads, there isn't enough to feed the mains. Please look into this theory, as it makes a reasonable arguments. Just check out the springs on an old engine, it speaks volumes. Thanks.
Chris that may be contributing but is not the only reason. Don’t you think not being priority main oil is an issue, I run a 9qt pan and don’t worry about drain back component.
I've never been so confused in my entire life! This man obviously knows what he is talking about, but I am lost. My only suggestion would be to paint the various chambers in colors to show the paths of flow to make it easier to follow. Having said that, it is still difficult to follow this narrative. Maybe different colors would help in this tutorial. And perhaps a side by side view would help as well. Regardless, this presentation is very difficult to follow when everything is rust colored. I'm sure everything is well thought out, but it just doesn't show very well. Thanks anyway!...
Thanks for watching, sorry your confused. Great suggestions
Excellent explanation. Greetings from Argentina.
You’re most welcome. Greetings from Ohio
I ve done FE heads at 2.19/16 exhaust. Exhaust is under positive pressure and it will surprise you how much more you gain with the 2.19 and a 1.6. I think that a big exhaust will be better, but surprisingly less than you would think. Especially considering what the 2.19 intakes alone will do. This is on a 65 FE head .
Exhaust not that important in the scheme of things
My parents had a 1971 Ford Torino station wagon with a 351 Cleveland.
12 years later it would still bark tires in all 3 gears. 👍🤓🍻
Hell Yeah al. That’s rocking. Now get down to the grocery store and pick up a few things.
There all good,. My mistake, awesome episode and I am watching the preview for tomorrow. Great evening to you all and your family!
I still have a complete 4V 351 Cleveland. Haven't found the right project for it yet!
It will turn up at the right time.