My takeaway from this is: Nixxiom, who loves wow, wants it to be more role-play centered because that's what he likes. Unfortunately that aspect of the game wasn't forgotten, it was abandoned a decade ago. Sadly having more abilities in wow doesn't give you that opportunity to be what you want, at maximum you can only be "a warrior" or "a paladin". In honesty, the game Nix wants is the reason why I started my game dev journey. It's just not wow anymore. The add-on discussion is a misfire. You don't want add-ons, you want a better game.
I agree, the add-on controversy/discussion is a waste of time. I actually don't think add-ons or no add-ons will matter in the grand picture of things. The whole 'add-ons should be removed' argument is losing steam lately massively.
Whats sad is that the last expansion that focused on any sort of rp was legion. Each class campaign was vastly different and it made you feel like the class you were playing. And as much as people complained at the time the weapon appearances were a fun thing to chase, and best of all they weren't tied to power just cosmetic.
@@greenfroggood2392 Me, who is not sponsored by addons, likes addons. Why? For me they fulfil the wish of my perfect customized and optimized UI with opportunity for funny stuff (Hadouken WA for Monk Abilitys for example. For other People it levels the skill requirement allows for a broader Skill brackets. That means top 600-500 Guilds are pretty close to each other skill wise and allows the choice of more Guilds your equal with in skill level.
I regularly play with a woman who is in her 70's and she always gets overwhelmed with addons. It's too much for her. She just gets on to collect items from old raids etc. The way I spend my time in WoW is usually figuring out how I can solo old raids for her to collect mogs/items. All because she has no idea what's going on in raids that are killing her.
Great to see. My daughter and my mother play together on Final Fantasy 14, though they don’t raid. My 68 year old mother and my 11 year old daughter taking screenshots of them in some random nice view.
What makes an mmo fun… 1) Combat System 2) Character Progression 3) Community Engagement What is not fun? 1) High barrier of entry for new players (add-ons, poorly designed and over punishing mechanics, class complexity) 2) Adverse of anything above
@@Phasma6969You're completely right but it wouldn't be profitable for Blizzard so they'd never do something like that despite how beneficial it'd be for the players.
As a RP player, it saddens me how there is almost no RP element in WoW. Lore ? Everything is incoherent or retcon. RP ? Heck, we don't even have class trainer
that's been the hardest part of wow for me to get into. i play a classic rp server but when i ask how to get into lore i'm just told to watch videos on youtube, but i don't get 30 minutes in before i'm listening to retconned lore that doesn't apply to my version of the game
This is a late reply but. Im also an RP player in 3 MMOs and DnD. From that perspective FF14 is so much more frustrating that WoW. They might retcon lore but at least it exists. You know what year FF14 currently is in? Neither do the devs! Its up to you! How much is Gil, the in game currency, worth and how much would a non-main character have? Neither do the devs! Its up to you! Timelines and currency function are some very basic world elements that 14 just glosses over making it nearly impossible to make a coherent RP world. Elder Scrolls unsurprisingly has the best world function despite also having dragonbreaks (retcons) but it does have a fleshed out world that gives you insight to how 'regular' people live.
Just like Limit wants their failed esport to dictate game design. Money. If they weren't getting paid for WoW, they would find some other niche esport to get sponsored by, because they suck at esports people actually care about in other countries. Their esport success also has a lot to do with weakauras scripts and Blizzard never banning the top guild who is sponsored by their partners for RL money trading etc. All the stories about how dirty Method was came out AFTER a publicity nightmare with Method Josh. Then Limit who were cheaters and banned constantly took over as the face of the esport.
This is so true. Playing the new plunderstorm, my biggest issue is the UI. I can’t believe they have giant NPC dialogue boxes pop up in the middle of your screen during a battle royale mode 😂
came back early df and played without any addons.... it was so fucking exhausting, just because you need 120% of your brainpower to see the green effects on green background and bullshit
I loved all the MoP buttons it was amazing. When you mastered it you actually got into flow states from managing so many things at once. Mistweaver in BGs..if you didnt play it man you missed something. Placing Healing Spheres on the ground for uber-heals instead of just watching raidframes but still staying aware of those for normal heals and dispels while juggling 5 CCs, 4 movement abilities, heal cd's, defensive cd's and looking for low enemies to help get the kill....boy that was mastery.
Well shyyyyt, here I thought my MoP holy paladin was an art and a science to operate like a maestro mastermind but your healing monk description makes my paladin sound like a simpleton! I stacked haste, haste, and haste and took the "wrong" talents and I still wowed people, topped meters, and routinely got invited to raid groups. Greg Street truly delivered on "Bring the player, not the class" with MoP. Some called it "button bloat" and "homogenization". I concede we did have a lot of buttons but "homogenization" is a straight lie or incredibly ignorant. The many abilities meant there were often multiple correct or valid spells available to choose from at any given moment but the nuanced differences between them allowed a more skilled experienced thoughtful strategic or crafty player to let his personal attributes bleed over or seep through his combat choices to have in-game effects. I've one other time read someone saying healer monk in MoP was VERY well designed but he didn't mention specifics like you did.
@@lawrencemccreery3451 the bubbles were just so good. The mechanic of getting away from raidframes directly onto the battlefield and spamming them just a little ahead of where people were walking was incredible. It was a little mana intensive but you could top people off that had 5 dps on them.
What you described is exactly why MoP's class design was bad. On top of having spells that have the same function, it was a ton of bloat and in PVP it was CC and Utility hell. I had fun with it for a while, but it's not really special, it's just a lot of buttons and a lot of memorization/muscle memory, the flow is horrible on most specs and ranged were better than melee. On top of that MoP had the same problem as TBC where due to poor scaling some specs got simpler rotations by the end of the expansion. Dragonflight and Shadowlands did having big rotations with a lot CC and Utility infinitely better than MoP. That's why WoD had to tune down from MoP and WoD actually got the class design great again. Sadly I think they over-pruned it for Legion and BFA.
@@ivankovachev8835 WoD was terrible. It was so slow and boring it felt like classes got a wheelchair. I will agree that CC was a Problem in MoP. I would however have liked to see more abilities that break CC instead. Wildstar was cool in that regard. You had to Spam a certain Button depending on what kind of cc you were in. Also killing someone was a little too hard. But still nothing compared to it for me since then.
@@mariooooo.o3404 WoD was between WotLK and MoP in terms of class design complexity(buttons to press), or maybe WotLK and Cata, beause Cata had more buttons to press. To say it's slow and bad is just not true. And iirc WoD still had a lot of spells off the GCD, so it was faster than even Cata due to that, just had 1-2 fewer buttons per spec than Cata. And yes built-in CC breakers or counters would have been great. And less mobility for classes in general in MoP.
Ive learned to listen to ques, voice lines and what not. Only 2 real add ons i use is dbm which i can live with out and details so i can improve on what im doin damage wise. Otherwise i dont clog my screen up of crap. Casual wise rare scanner for alerts and truestat. The stuff ive seen on mythic players screens is just to much.
IT's 100% bad raid designing even dungeon designs in general that Blizzard completely screwed up for years now. Just because some people use addons shouldn't = make the raid even harder.
Min-maxing is the death of fun. The feeling of accomplishment replaces the joy of simply playing, and with that change the game ceases to be a game. It becomes a hierarchy, with people investing far too much into it. As with all things in life, it's best to be first. If you're not, the door gets closed in your face and you end up playing a game rigged against you.
Min-maxing is the death of fun... _for you_ . Many people find enjoyment in chasing the best performance. The challenge of critically thinking about the decisions they're making, and finding the best options which others have missed. If you don't enjoy that, then competitive online multiplayer games probably aren't for you. Play something else.
@@ispear6337Min-maxxing is fun, without a doubt, as it kindof allows you to push the boundaries of the game. The issues is when the community gatekeeps content because someone hasn't min-maxxed to an acceptable amount despite either being able to do the content comfortably, or even have completed the content before. That was the issue I had with WoW. Felt like the people around me weren't having fun, and they would get mad at every little thing.
Min-maxing is fun, I don't wanna waste any more of my already wasted time in an MMO when I can min-max to help make it go faster, WHILE ALSO HAVING FUN WITH THE GUILD. I know, that's hard to grasp isn't it? lol...
You can play your own game style, find people who shares your same view, or even more play single player games. Telling people how to play online games and ask them to adapt on how you feel the game should play is so weird to me. Competitive multiplayer games are always going to be about pushing the game's limit.
I tried to get into WoW when Dragonflight was released, but I really couldn't and one of the reasons was that on top of figuring out the game I also had to figure out which addons to get and how to use them effectively
Addon's really aren't important until you break out of normal activities. When I say that, I mean, when you start the end game grind. You can have the entire experience of the expansion without ever leaving random raid finder. The rest is really just fluff. Chasing a carrot on a stick. Anything that's done in Mythic can be done on normal. Addon's become important when you start chasing things like mounts and achievements. Raid specific stuff like dps meters and DBM are only required once you go beyond that first tier of content. You're a victim of the youtube rabbit hole, unfortunately.
@@FlockofSmeagles my point is, the only appeal of world of Warcraft retail is the end game raiding, almost all of the other content is pointless unless you’re there just for the story. Pugging is boring, it just is. It’s also super fking easy. I guess if your enjoyment from world of Warcraft is to collect sht gear while never having a challenge fighting boring bosses then yes, you can get most of the experience from pugging, but if you want any level of fun, you should find a guild to do the norms with at the very least, and pref work up to heroic as they are very mildly challenging, mythic is where I could see a line drawn, mythic raiding is its own cesspool, just saying sitting in pug only has got to be one of the most boring ways to experience this game.
@@aidanproy1484 That's nice, but your point isn't addressing the fact that they were new and didn't know what to do. Pugging is boring. Shit, repetitively farming keys and weeklies for slight color variants and a stat boost is boring. My opinions, however, have no bearing on how a new player experiences the game. The fact is that Addon's aren't necessary for new players. The content that they experience is the same content that you experience beyond rdf. They've been fooled by UA-camrs who are suffering from the same bias that you are. New players don't know that they should find a guild for that specific purpose. They don't know if whether or not they like collecting mounts, mog, achievements, PvP, alt leveling, gold farming, etc... They don't know any of these things. Which is what I was saying. I made a mild suggestion that they should complete the content that's readily available to them. So, that they actually get something out of the money that they spent. Instead of worrying about all of the fluff. Because, in the end. That's what "pug casual mode" is there for.
Yeah kinda strange nixxiom is so RPG driven but advocates for adding that take ‘exploration’ away. I agree with Asmon it should be a core part of the game and the first time you’ve explored that resource node it should be available to all ur toons. I like both Nixxiom and Asmon, but there was a bit of hypocrisy with Nixxioms RPG take and push for addons. Heck, new players trying RPG are going to be lost without addons according to Nixxiom. 🤷
I think that’s fair…. Big problem I see is most wow lifers / add on enjoyers are making it seem like they want the add ons instead of wanting the devs actually work to have a good default UI. Let’s stop defending dev’s lazy work on their own game. They basically sat back and let their playerbase slave away and solve their own shortcomings
To be fair, I think in arguments we shouldn't assume that. But, I am fairly certain just about every single time Asmon has mentioned "remove addons" in this arguments he adds "and blizzard needs to add these QOL addons as well"
@@GX-105D Oh really? I missed the part where the default WoW UI gives you 20 different notifications about when your abilities are coming off cooldown and 10 different timers ticking down for boss mechanics while warning you when you're standing in something.. I think you people literally think that DBM and Weakauras are built into WoW now..
ESO is perfect example of class/gear balancing. Equal values across all gear with pro/cons that lean into play style preference. New content provides exciting new loot to get, but at the same time gear from 5 years ago is still viable.
One of the best times I've had raiding was in a no dbm/bigwigs guild. Everyone was actually more attentive and we had a lot of fun learning what the bosses do on the fly.
I don't think it was dbm, I think the issue is with wow designing fights to be too difficult to almost impossible without addons. WA make it so you don't even need to pay attention to what's going on
@@Cr3w96 I have played a long time even CE without heavy add-on use, but the amount of stuff to keep track of is getting ridiculous. We've been in this race for a while of blizzard trying to design fights to be difficult for add-on users, but it's just adding a lot of fatigue for normal people.
The gear used to reset every expansion. We were doing Naxx in MC & BWL gear. That felt like character progression. Having your gear reset every patch is just nonsensical and negates any feeling of progress you had/have.
i've never needed addons to not stand in fire in a raid, green is heal, npc walks means kill one npc to not wipe, green blob is poison, not a hard concenpt
im not sponsored by a payed addon and i dont want them gone either. If WoW got rid of its addons i would completely uninstall the game and never look back.
@Malix2238 Good riddance. Addons are cancer. You shouldn't need 3rd party code to tell you how to play a game. The devs build the game assuming people have that advantage and it becomes an arms race fewer and fewer people care to participate in.
Not to mention a 3 day, 4 hour raid schedule, but doing everything you need to do that week to even go to the raid. Farming consumes, mythic +, being caught up on quests, grinding things out, making sure your addons and weakauras are up to date. It burned me out so fast. It's a full time job.
Yeah, and i don't understand why do grown men even try do defend this shit. How you can have a full time job and really think that you have to get another one just to get loot from the raid bosses.
@@anywaylose3999 It's about doing something you want to do rather than something you have to do to get money and stay alive. Work isn't work if you're enjoying it.
27:10 "I want to have a bunch of spells and abilities that i can choose from..." - proceeds to look at icy veins on daily basis to see the best rotation for most damage
Elemental Shaman's main rotation in Legion was the goat. You had a dot (flame shock) to maintain, you had a spam spell (lightning bolt), you had a proc based on the dot (lava surge), you had a finishing spell that was based on damaging spells (Earth Shock), and you had two spells that you swapped out when you were in an AoE/Cleave situation (chain lightning, earthquake). There were oh shit buttons, there were fuck you buttons, there was flavour buttons around this but that core rotation made playing an ele a treat.
thats what ele shamans were like in wotlk and cata as well but then you also had a suite of totems that you placed down that would buff you and those around you with 1 button press and could also put them all away with 1 button press and i felt like a damn shaman not anything else. now they just feel like a nature mage with more armour and i dont feel like a shaman anymore =(
Frost DK was Simple and Satisfying (DPS) In WoTLK. Outlaw Rogue was Simple and Satisfying in Legion. Ret Pally in Dragonflight is nuts and super fun to play. But now Frost DK has Remorseless Winter and zero diseases to maintain which makes Frost DK boring now. Outlaw Rogue and the "Roll the Bones" Ability is trash now. I'd prefer to select my own abilities and buff said abilities through talents and such. Being forced to use an ability you don't like is what I find hard tbh.
That’s basically the same rotation as retail now minus like primordial wave/icefury… Storekeeper was also added in legion so, not that different really lol
The amount of comments regarding the content of a 50 minute video, 16 minutes after it came out, shows that people care more about their own opinion than hearing the entire argument before opening their mouths lmao
Who watches something live just to rewatch an edited version of it? I guess that special kind of person REALLY cares about their own opinion enough to watch the same content twice just to comment.
@@joschmo4497 he's not commenting on the video though, he's commenting on a number of comments you can see before watching the entire video, good luck thinking in the future tho
42:00 the old Lord of the Rings Online has features to combine all your bags into one panel or shrink 5 bags down to 4 or less, you can fully rearrange the UI, its not impossible, never let a dev tell you something is impossible.
My friend group and I, we didn't realize how lucky we were to get into Rift just before it went free-to-play and died a few years later. I miss the HL raids in Storm Legion, but it seemed so normal at the time. The litany of "user joined your channel" before we started, the way King Boss Mod lighted up a firework every time the boss pulled a heavy one, the adrenaline when you were among the 4 or 5 last standing in a party of 20... And if you wiped in Rift, one person spent their 1h cooldown "soul-walk" then mass-resurrected the whole party. Some had "fake death" skills and could reset without dying. Worst case scenario, the guild could plant a flag to summon you. It all seemed so normal to me, but really we were blessed. We lived through the last hours of a golden age.
Rift was a good game. It just never got the support and updates it needed to keep the game alive. Calling a new dungeon that's just a repaste of an old one is garbage. And selling a raid staf for 2k USD, I mean who did they think they were? Star Citizen?
@@Schwaka I tried it some months ago just to see if anyone playing and I saw 2 players ;(. Still it was really nostalgic and fun just lvling alone for some hours just to experience it again. But yeah kinda dead.
10 spells is perfect, 6 for general use 4 for situational. If the class gets a group buff it should be passive, like leader of the pack was. The Evoker is well designed in this manner, there are 6 things you do, 4 or 5 situational things to do and they can change depending on spec but you still have that 6/4 split. I am also talking rotational, obviously you have more than 10 spells on an Evoker.
My guild was doing Heroic and maybe a few Mythic bosses by the end of the raid tier. We had a relaxed schedule, played other games at the same time and were not good at WoW. It was the second most fun gaming experience for me after Souls games. Literally amazing. The only reason I don't play anymore is because my friends quit, and playing with random people is not as fun. I don't know, maybe the game is in fact designed around the top 1%, but it was certainly fun for us. I agree on other points, like add-ons and walkbacks.
Adding raid difficulties gutted the amount of content we received each expansion and you can see that trend by looking at the dungeon journal. After heroic difficulty was introduced, the next expansion had fewer dungeons and raids, and after they added mythic, there were even less. After people complained and asked for more content, they did the bare minimum to add more raids and dungeons, but it never really recovered to pre heroic numbers
Adding different difficulties also makes balancing harder. Which also causes people to be meta slaves. For example there are builds which only work if you have the stats which the top gear gives. But the majority of people don’t have that gear and would do better with a build around the gear lvl they have. But if anyone tries something different they get flamed for not being meta.
@@mabbook oh god yes... immedaite PTSD kicking in from BfA fire mages in the last tier. The specc was pure god meta, as long as you had the secondary stat breakpoints provided through mythic gear. In all other circumstances, frost was just waaaaay more comfortable. Easy rotation, great feeling due to tremendous million damage crits by your giant frost thingy, and overall not so reliant on secondary stats. But trying to get into a raid or m+ as frost? HAH FUCK YOU!
In Wildstar you had 8 slots to put your spells and skills in. Each class had a lot more than 8 spells and skills, but you could only choose 8 for your rota. I think that was a great system. There was a meta for most classes, obviously, but it still allowed customization and playing felt tight and engaging, compared to WoW's playing-a-piano level of skills to juggle.
So, going off of Nixxiom's video. Asmon Argument #1. I can agree with this. There's been a few times when I've come back to WoW just to check out what's new, see the new expansion, etc to only then have to go through the nightmare of having to read the 40 - 50+ spells just to remember what they do and where I need to put them on my hotbar. Then after that, make sure all of my keybinds are setup the way I like them and makes it easier for me to hit the spells when I need them. There's just way too much clutter and this is before I even get to the last argument. Asmon Argument #2 - Part 1. This one I'm on the fence about. 40 man raids would be awesome, but like Nixxiom said, it would be a nightmare to setup, get ready etc. Plus, I can still remember the amount of NOISE in voice comms during the raid. Too much noise is a huge sensory thing for me, personally. But, like you said, it's more of a vibe thing. Asmon Argument #2 - Part 2. Having only one raiding difficulty is fine with me. I was okay when they introduced Heroic, it wasn't a huge deal for me, however, once they introduced Mythic in MoP and fleshed it out more in WoD, I wasn't a huge fan. Having Normal and Heroic raids to me was like the equivalent of picking what difficulty you wanted to play a single player game on, you choose the experience you want to have. Once Mythic was introduced, it felt more like Blizzard forcing in more unnecessary gear grind for gear that would be irrelevant come next patch/expansion. Having one difficulty and similar experiences for everyone would feel better. Asmon Argument #3. I agree with this completely. Addons were one of a few reasons why I stopped playing WoW. The screen becomes way, way too cluttered with them and it did feel like the game was being played for me. I didn't have to be nearly as aware of anything when raiding or even doing something as simple as dungeons. I would zone out a lot of the times and just go through the motions. It made endgame content extremely boring for me. My biggest addon beef is with the parsing/damage meter addons. I really feel like raiding has been gatekept now because of them. "Oh, you're not doing (x amount) of dps, get out of here." I've had this experience a small handful of times when trying to get back into the game and trying to get back into raiding. I've been kicked from a few raids because of it, despite doing the mechanics almost perfectly. But, just like Asmon has his opinions, these are mine. I loved WoW - and a small part of me still does - but it really comes down to the game has changed so much that it just isn't for me anymore. I do want to see the game succeed and hope for the best for it. The players that are still involved with this game deserve it.
i think button bloat is an issue but if u have 10 buttons in a rotation and another 5 that are 2 min or 5 min CDs that contribute to changing ur rotation or being impactful that's fine. i think no retail player wants the game to become the snorefest classic is with 1 button rotations. it becomes an issue when u have multiple buttons u don't need or that do the same thing as something else.
@@AlmostMeantToBe And I agree, 1 button rotations would be a snooze fest and it would really hurt class identity. They would have to find a happy middle if they were to reduce the amount of spells each class has. It's just a little frustrating that the WoW UI has gotten so cluttered even without addons that it's getting close to almost needing a 2nd keyboard and a 14 button mouse just to do even the simplest of content in the game
I think the reason why he wants 40-man raid, other than it sounds cool, is that you can have spare slots for other players to join in, like extra healers, extra tanks, etc. If you lose some people on the way, its not gonna be an immediate wipe. And all around, Its just gonna be easier for people to join a raid.
If you are a real one you know that the idea of a 20man raid is more realistic because out of a 25man 20 people are ready to raid on time 9/10 times. A 40man is a nightmare to wait on people and to manage.
That's only if you need 40 players who can all handle mechanics with perfect teamwork. You can have some absolute passengers (and/or pugs) if not everyone needs to have a brain cell to clear the raid as long as the average is good enough.
Whenever I think of returning to the game the number one thing that blocks me is remembering I have to spend 1-2 sessions downloading and setting up my UI and addons. Then remembering I forgot an addon and having to disrupt my gameplay to download and set that addon up. Addon dependency is too high, and it's bloated the game. Blizzard over the years should have baked in these features.
To add on to the single difficulty conversation: Even with a 'solved' game Classic Ulduar hard modes were difficult enough for a typical guild to take multiple weeks gearing up before registering an Algalon or 0 light kill. I agree and think this is a good level of difficulty.
And thats fine, you can add some difficulty layers like hardmodes. They didnt offer the same gear with a higher ilvl, they offered different gear. Some classes wanted those items more than others, which made for a fun dynamic when looking for raid groups. But the whole 4-Difficulty-Setting we are currently in, is just stupid. Why would i want to run anything but mythic? Its not like i get different items depending on difficulty, i get the very same items just with a different ilvl. Thats ridicilous... and mythic is so stupidly inaccessable that i wont be able to get CE in my current life situation. I can afford to raid once per week, and that was enough for wotlk ICC 25 heroic back in the day...
@@laoch5658 had replay ability that no other expansion had, once you raid logged you could enjoy leveling another character you had not experienced yet and by 60 you had a grasp on it and at some level every level 60 was at least somewhat competent at their class. Nobody wanted to have to level to 60 again and then do Outland to 70 AGAIN, each expansion it got worse and worse however Vanilla wow was always populated at every level bracket all the time
As a gamer that played wow for one expansion. I agree 100% that add-ons ruin the game. For a start it probably took me 10+ hours to get them set up right as a healer. But things like DPS meters promote toxicity and add-ons generally mean players have a far different experience based on what they've done outside of the game which is wrong IMO
27:03 I would think the more RPGs you play, the more you’d realize that most systems do place lots of limits on the number of spells. For example, D&D always limits spells in some way. Even for “open spell casting” classes like Druid, which can theoretically use most of the Player’s Guide spell section, the Druid is limited to only the certain amount of spells they can prepare each night.
not everything needs to see the end bosses of mythic its a skill check and only a small increase in power, mythic isnt a give me or handed out like a participation medal not everyone needs to clear it or should
@itsmechrispy6083 You people are so insufferable.. can you imagine making Elden Ring so hard that 0.1% of players can beat the last boss and then saying, "Well, beating the last boss iSn'T fOr YoU". Get the f*** outta here with that BS. If Mythic raiding required me alone to do the fight mechanics and take down the boss, I'd go clear it right now. Getting 24 other people together on a job-like schedule and having it so EVERY one of them has to all dance perfectly with zero missteps and 20 add-ons to hold their hands is absolutely ridiculous gameplay design..
I'm at the 10 minute mark, and Asmon is speaking to something I was complaining about back when WotLK was in it's prime. The endgame is designed with addons in mind. My take back then was, make a customizable UI and ban addons. This would eliminate the need for boss fights to be more and more complex to counteract addons. It was a vicious loop then and it's only gotten worse.
Thing about 40 man raiding is that it can work, as long as required number to kill boss is less than that, but 40 is max you can have to make it easier. Soo let's say every raid boss was tuned with 20 ppl in mind, but every additional person can be counter as a "support" so bonus healing and dps that isn't REQUIRED to kill a boss, but would make killing the boss easier. Then 40 man would return with a vengeance and only try hards and world first raiders would have problem with it (also heroic and normal are already 30ppl max soo lol). Thing is that it would be easy to implement even now, since if you think about it, most bosses on wow are artificially difficult due to enrage time. Which is why you often wipe on mythic when single person die, because you can't dps boss down before enrage hits. If you remove it, i believe at least first few bosses on mythic would be 10'manable
used to be we had a few trash packs on route to boss, but they would introduce us to the boss' abilities. now, they are just like a parking lot full of road humps. their idea of making bosses more difficult apparently means to make so much go on that u have to move constantly, while at the same time making it possible for one person to wipe the raid.
@@polowy9126 who said they didnt? im obviously referring to the trend with latest xpacs in which trash became trash for the sake of having more trash. if ur implying i should be cool with that since the oldest raids had a "fuck ton" of trash, then u missed the fucking point.
@@polowy9126 there is a gigantic difference between trash that can be mass-pulled and shredded (ICC in wotlk comes to mind), and trash that needs to be pulled pack by pack unless you want to wipe.
Blizzard should create their own add on which tells you what mechanics are coming up and what to do etc then ban all of the addons. That way everyone has what they need and all players have access to them. It would help them design bosses better too because the data they get from people will be more reflective. It doesnt need to be an add on per se more of a game feature
Some players are in Blizzard's cave, and when they come to see other games outside the cave they just get blinded and scared, like how could WoW not be a perfetctly designed game, and run back to into cave to do some random reputation farm or smth.
i have played on and off since vanilla. swapping between retail and classic the last years. recently i been a multi class tank player on a decent "high level". after taking a break i lost all my addons and weakauras in a reinstall. I can not come back. the setup and personal customisation will take me most likely as much time as leveling a character 1-60 in classic. im not willing to invest that much time for no gain other then having a proper ui set up.
Having both 40 and 20 man raids is the way to go, but different raids. Just like we had MC/BWL/etc... and then ZG. 40 man is way funnier, cooler and improves the community aspect of the game, but, having those side raids of 20 gives the possibility for smaller guilds / groups of friends to play together off-hours.
Honestly, even if Asmon didn’t play a day of wow in his life his opinion would have validity to it. Why? Because WoW players vs other Gamers is so interestingly touched upon in this video. Staysafe also made a good point, a lot of players quit over the years. The solution starts with asking: What to do to draw players back to the game? Why do gamers who never touched wow say, “shit I could never get into that” or “WoW doesn’t look new player friendly.” As a current mythic raider, shit’s not that hard btw, harder dungeons and raids will not solely cut it while trivializing everything else.
I found the WoW vs other players part of this video interesting as well. What some WoW players complain about is what some of us older gamers loved about older games. Taking an hour after wiping to a raid boss? That's when we would joke around and have some fun. Building relationships with our fellow guildmates. That to me is why EQ has it's die hards that wont give it up. They are connected to the people they are with on a much deeper level. I miss all of my fellow raiders in EQ. Wish I could track them all down and visit with them. We all had so much fun for years fighting our way through content and it's those relationships that make a game hard to quit, or hard to leave. Thus creating it's sustainability over a long period of time. WoW certainly has it's own sustainability in a way that it was many peoples first mmo. Their first love of MMO gaming. It brought in so many new players to the MMO genre. So many of those people think that WoW was the first of it's kind and very basic, while it really was more advanced in many ways.
I've played plenty of games, and while WoW has it's pit falls, it's still a great game. It's different from every other game because of how rich it is, and this is coming from someone who quit raiding and running M+ all the time because that truly is boring. But in an rpg leveling up is important, but it loses it's importance when the only reason you are grinding for gear is to grind for gear. I spend the majority of my time questing, actually playing the game to completion, and it's way more enjoyable. It makes running the dungeons when it comes time to actually fun and memorable and the experience is enriching. I think a large problem with this game though is how it appeals to the modern gamer using paragraphs of text for every quest that you pick up. Unfortunately not many people like to read, and you can just do the quests without reading, but you miss out on a lot of context. Blizzard could probably address this with future expansions by adding dialogue to every quest giver, which would probably be expensive ad tedious to create, but a solution is a solution. You could even make the text to speech addon part of the game, and possible create tones of voice that mimic every race/gender. Beyond that, WoW needs to put more fun social activities into the game. We've seen that they are capable of adding mini games in through the various world quests, so why not make some that have high score, or reward special currencies, or have aspects of multiplayer or coop? WoW is still a wonderful adventure game to play, but it is missing out on so much potential that the corporate board probably doesn't allow for devs to explore.
Everytime a friend talks me into playing wow again, I think long and hard about how long downloading addons and setting up my ui is going to take and I'm like "nah I'm good".
I've gotten 3 CE with just Weakauras and cosmetic addons. Realistically, unless youre a top 100 guild, you don't NEED anything aside from DMG and Weakaura
Do addons help. Absolutely. Do you need them for the VAST MAJORITY of what players do? No. It's a self imposed crutch that the shit part of the community relies on, and chooses to do.
I'd love to see them make mythic and heroic raids drop the same ilvl gear. Give mythic a different cosmetic appearance or something to still set it apart.
I think raid designs should have been done as follows: You can raid them as many times as you want, they are very easy to clear; but you have to beat them faster (or in specific ways) to get additional drops. So a casual guild can go through the content, bring in alts to carry at will, ect ect; fun will be had by all. Then there should be additional challenges that they can engage with should they want to, or even challenges tailored to specific group compositions. I can imagine a fight designed to be completed with a party of over 50% healers, one that test their ability to pick the right target to tag (not necessarily burst down) or your typical don't stand in the fire fights. With enough creativity a single boss could be defeated in multiple fashions and each way you defeat it could offer different loot. Not "hard-modes" but alternative ones that takes focus away from DPS and HPS.
@@rahn45 The perfect balance of that was Ulduar imho. A casual raid was well able to clear the whole Raid without many issues, and if you wanted to get a few more items, you could turn on the hard mode. Progressively hard modes got easier the longer the content went on, because people were catching up with gear, leaving only 1-2 hardmodes really challenging (yogg+0, firefighter come to mind). And thats fine! If the difference between you and a top-tier player is a single item, it doesnt feel as bad as having a difference of 13 ilvl's across your entire gear.
Having done mythic raid it involves grinding the appropirate gear, learning the raid, becoming accepted into an appropriate raiding group, gathering the required gold and/or consumables. Then commiting time (above what you already commited). My eyesight isnt the best, I am impatient about keeping up with the grind but I've done it before and it isn't because i'm a top player. In the DF expansion the guild I'm in had a raid group and it split into a mythic group and a heroic group. There were people in the heroic group that finished heroic but the group trailed off. I think there ended up being too many distractions and it was not easy to casually move people in and out of the group as they had other commitments. Looking at how fast the race to world first is going on now compared to how long it took out way back when there were not only puzzles that had to be figured out but there wasn't a huge structure of support people getting the raiders the gear needed. I like hard options (pvp, things like visions in BFA, the maw in Shadowlands) and I like working with large groups (sometimes) but watching normal people break down tear their hair out & groups that like to play the game go insane because they are trying to raid is really stressful. On raid trash: it is very odd to has trash in a raid that wipes a group that isn't being wiped by the nearby bosses. Before our heroic group quit raiding we were having to invite pugs and every week our raid leader had to explain the raid again, and again, and on some bosses ask if people had a specific weakaura. My particular weakness in the end was the flying interlude on the last 2 bosses which just required practice, which you could not get without grinding high content (it was not just dragon flying but learing how to avoid certain lights and pick up other lights). And yet nobody wants to invite someone to play heroic raid another time that same week and reduce the loot chances for the group. So basically wow was weeding out guild groups where the group didn't make it to the end and most of the individuals in the group didn't run off and pug the same content to get the practice in. That is basically punishing the casual 90% of any fun guild.
Nah. Play mage in classic WoW and say that shit is anywhere near "fun". the fun in classic primarily comes with the community and people you play with, not the braindead mechanics and lack of anything to do
I am more in favor of 20 man raids, but if all the things Asmon suggests were implemented, easier raids, no combat add-ons meaning fights aren't designed around them, etc, 40 man probably wouldn't be as bad. Yeah you'd have to get a bunch of people together, but you wouldn't need all 40 of them to be top of the shelf mythic gods. Just roll up and go. An easier 40 man experience maybe with a little dash of chaos
Raiding in Classic was way more fun across the board than even WotLK. Doing BWL/AQ40 where you can afford to have some people fuck up and be idiots with only a handful of potential raid wipe mechanics is fun. Doing ICC where there are fights like Heroic Lich King (before the buff) where if ONE person makes a single mistake the fight is just over is not fun.
I think thats something that a lot of people dont realize. If you take the current raiding climate, 40-man would be a straight up impossible nightmare to deal with. But with easier raids, where you can compensate mistakes? And actually enjoy a chill experience? That would be awesome.
I've played wow off and on since vanilla. Played EQ before that and UO before that. Asmon absolutely nailed the problems with this game. Mainly that it is too damn hard. So many people are afraid to say that because they get labeled as bad or a noob. Yea, whatever. I shouldn't need to take a typing class to play a game. I shouldn't need 10 hotkeys and then 10 more with shift modifiers and 10 more with control modifiers. I shouldn't need 20 addons and 40 weak auras. It's ridiculous.
Actually true. All you need to do in mythic raiding by yourself is just step out of fire, kill mobs, if boss summoning them, and do the dmg/heal. The only difficulty is finding another people that can do the same
so why is it then that there are under 700 guilds that killed Fyrakk mythic? Fight addons are shit and too hard content is also shit, but its not like the content is trivialized by these addons.
I think 2 difficulties are the best for WoW. For raids a difficulty that is as hard as Ulduar 25 man would be Normal and another one that is as hard as Cata/MoP Heroic would be the Hard difficulty. For dungeons you just have leveling dungeons, then you scale all non-max level dungeons to max level once you ding max level. At max level you have Normal difficulty and you have one more that is Hard difficulty. Now another thing WoW should consider is horizontal progression. They should scale all non-current Raids to Normal Raid difficulty in terms of tuning and ilvl(or slightly below 6-8ilvls below), this way every new tier all previous raids are relevant content. And you can do 1 non-current raid + 1 current raid per week. Then you can upgrade the non-current raid gear with Valor points(or some other currency).
I loved wrath. Played prot war, armor pen was hilarious. Played fire mage. Demo lock. Enhance shaman. Frost and blood death knight. Prot pally. When I came back in bfa I hated almost every class I tried. Pretty much just played fury war and bm hunter. Fire mage was one of the most infuriating. Hot streak was a fun proc in wrath, in bfa it was something you has to actively create with consecutive crits. They literally changed fun into work. work.
i get how u feel, but bc u want a slow lazy roation doesnt mean everyone does. i think retail is good bc they have slow lazy rotations like warrior or hunter and fun dynamic proc classes, or builder spenders, or burst window classes. there's a variety of playstyles instead of just the press things off cd 5 button classes.
@@AlmostMeantToBe Bm was indeed one of the slowest and easiest specs but fury was the highest apm spec in bfa. I got no problem with a fast paced rotation, I have a problem with a very complex rotation that needs you to pay very close attention to buffs/debuffs and react perfectly.
@@darylsdog9521 Its been so long that I honestly didn't recall how it worked in wrath. But my original point, that it was just a fun thing that happened in wrath but is work in retail, is still valid since retail has guaranteed crit abilities that are ment to be used for actively generating hot streaks and wrath did not.
Hard versions of the game are fun for some people. I could see a compromise where the Heroic and Mythic gear has the same Ilvl but the Mythic gear has different models titles and mount rewards for the end boss.
Thinking about the loot point, I think about the Shadowmourne quest chain in ICC; it actually led to more people raiding because A) they were beating Arras, B) they were Earning stuff for the axe, and C) they needed people until it could be solo.
I stopped raiding after Throne of Thunder after being a avid raider for years, I dabbled a bit in Warlords of Draenor as well, because I got into a guild filled with a very nice friendly group of people who happened to raid mythic. But the mechanics in Mythic is just difficult for the same of being difficult. Most of the fights aren't enjoyable most of the time, nor do they have a nice sense of rhythm to them. I've said it for years now. Last time I truly enjoyed the raiding aspect was the hardmode ICC and Ulduar. The extra mechanics that were introduced made the fight feel complete. It was a challenge to get things organised with the people you played with, but they weren't really difficult. But it was a fun challenge. Now you need to keep track of everything between 3-7 abilities per phase per boss and at the end you got about 28 abilities to keep track of. It becomes so much for no reason than to make it convoluted and forces everyone to use addons and trackers in order to deal with the fights. Some of my friends still raid mythic and 80% of their screen is addons that assist them with the fights. They barely see their characters anymore. The game would benefit immensely if the game was playable without addons, especially having to sim gear in order to tell if it's good or not. It just shafts the new players especially as many don't know where to get addons, nor do they know what stats are good. I hope they make the raiding content enjoyable, not just difficult for the same of being difficult. Before that happens, I won't step into raiding again. I've gone 2 expansions now without any raiding and I couldn't be happier with the way I enjoy the game now.
@@georges4266tbh we were on top guilds and felt too much like beta testers that we stopped fast. The end game donjon with the boss that just don’t die, the guild vs guild were you had to farm for days to create defense not appearing on battle and you just lose. The first raid being just a handful of monsters that gives 0 loots, etc… The game was great with the tutorial but after. It was awful. It was fixed after but it was too late for us.
19:07 This is partly why strike missions became so popular in Guild Wars 2. It's literally one boss in an arena, no trash. You enter instance, kill the boss, get the loot, leave, go next. Granted, 80% of the strike missions are piss easy.
Is kind of why I quit GW2. Too much mindless zerging. Grind became shallow at max level. I did it at original GW2 of course. The whole allure of challenging zones despite level wasn't a thing. You could just clap anything you wanted what was lower level.
Personally, I feel the raid should provide gear at the same level for everyone with higher settings giving transmog. Raids are an ending to the xpac story they should want most of the player base, making it through the raid.
poopsocker In reference to players of MMORPG's that instead of taking a break to go to the bathroom, they take off their sock, defecate in it, and throw it aside for later disposal. Refers to someone who stays up all day and all night to play an MMORPG.
It also is ridiculous that the raid encounters are so difficult that it takes people that are considered the best warcraft raiders in the world hundreds of attempts to kill one boss.
nah thats how it should be! last boss of a mmo should not be killed by everyone. i dont get where this logic come from that everyone should be able to do everything in every game. when i was a kid and we played nes. we didint get to the last boss in most game. did we cry that it was too hard and we should be able to kill it? hell nah. saying everything is too hard is whats ruining gamin g atm lol
@@phatal4573Think again, what makes a player happy? Winning and get rewards for it. Doesnt matter how hard it is. Its always satisfying for a gamer. If you build a game around the
@@polowy9126it brings people to the game only for them to realise they wouldn’t be able to replicate what they saw on stream in any foreseeable future. After that they quit.
@@phatal4573 Last boss of a mmo should not be killed by everyone? Despite the fact that literally everyone can because of LFR? Also, who decided that? Sounds like maybe you were just bad at NES games when you were younger, which is fair because most kids, myself included, literally didn't have the years of experience playing games that we do now. Plus the term 'Nintendo difficulty' is real for older, shitty games that were on the NES.
You can show Asmon a picture of an item and wow and he will name it for you. Not only will he name it but he will tell you where to get it if it was from a quest, or raid, or world drop. He is wow
Nixxiom has become just a pandering yes man. He gives the safest opinions that are going to please the most people in a bid to save his dying channel and relevance.
In expansion to Asmon's take on addons. I think the point that he is trying to drive home is that ever feature that you are receiving from addons should be given to you from Blizzard. In the short term it may require more resources to develop those features in house but then Blizzard can completely cater the game around the vision that they intended in their development versus having to accommodate 3rd party devs which weren't a part of the discussion about the larger vision for the game
NO! Just remove add-ons and make the game playable without them. What's the point of removing them only to add them back in?? NO OTHER MMO has add-ons. They just make their dungeons and raids so you don't need them. WoW used to as well, until the 1% started gatekeeping the entire game because they could setup and install more add-ons than everyone else.
12:03 thats my exact problem with FF14 raiding too, you get BiS and then the next patch is out for the new tier and crafted gear is better than my BiS....
My beef: Your time spent playing WoW builds toward NOTHING. Read, and you build knowledge. Exercise, and you build towards fitness. Play Wow, and you build toward an i-level reset and an expansion level-squish. Mounts carry over, but that's an insufficient justification of your life-investment. Instead, invest in things that have a meaningful and long-lasting impact.
I dunno why I never watched Asmongold. You have really reasonable takes on video games. Regarding your various takes on MMOs, which I agree with generally even though I'm a "gamer" and souls player and not a MMO player, I'll pull from my boomer experience as an Ultima Online PVP player. BACK IN THE DAY (lol), Ultima Online was fun as a social experience for the non-pvp areas. It didn't have to be super duper difficult. Just work the economy, enjoy the social aspect, engage in group raids to do the harder areas for gold so you could pad your bank account. If you wanted true difficulty, you played the pvp servers. And that shit was actually fucking really difficult. People got absolutely SHIT on. And I think that's fair. PvP should be punishing, and PvE should provide a reasonable amount of difficulty, a LOT of gear, and feed the power fantasy.
@@meanseason3056its not pretty casual in the least, not even considering wow degens, its 4 years of online time, its literally playing 10 hours a day for 10 years straight, and you need to consider asmon doesnt play much wow since at least 4 years ago
I sincerely tried playing this game twice, had some friends and family CRAZY about it. The graphics and slow pace always made me just not though. But I finally did and hot a Rogue to lvl 60 in the Shadows expansion and was able to start doing mythics. I was not ready for it, and EVERYONE kept telling me to do add ons. NO! I dont want them. The game should be played and made in a way without them even if I am new to the game. Then Dragonflight came out had a Dragonborn lvl 70 and was much more fun, the game felt so much better, but then the add on bs came about and even though I finally had great dps and mechanics, everyone still cried and wanted me to do this bc I would be even better…NO! Like why should I have to to make the crappy UI better? And then it doesnt look good it looks like hell and clutter.
Oooh of ALL creators, I'm so glad to hear YOU saying 'get rid of all addons". Thank you!! It's not that I hate addons, any more than I hate mods for single player games... what I hate with a raging flaming passion is that we shouldn't NEED addons. If we need to fix the game, that's a fucking problem *with the game* !! It should be FIXED, not patched and modded and added on by PLAYERS. Also, I can't even say how many raids and events I've been excluded from because I didn't have that particular type of damage counter or whatever, that the raid leader wanted. And don't get me started on damage or healing meters. I'm a bubble healer from way, waaaay back so I fucking despise meters. They are elitist BS that should never be needed or allowed. My hot take though, is keybinding. I REALLY hate that. I've played alongside players that have such comprehensive keybinds that they literally don't have to press more than one key in 5 or 6 rotations. That's poison and is worse than most addons. 🤷
If you mythic raided in season 1 of Dragonflight then stopped playing you would not even be able to queue for random heroics today if you started playing again. That seems like an obvious problem.
Last good xpac was WOTLK, cata was the tipping point... COULD have been a good xpac, it was just the downfall of WoW every xpac after has been absolute shit. NOW THEY EXPECT US TO PLAY FRIENDLY WITH THE OTHER FACTION??!!! FUCK NA... FOR THE HORDE!
I completely agree with you about the "addons" subject. I'm very picky with games because I think if other studios are making it, is because it is possible to think about it and also, the current technology that we are handling, allows it. What I mean is, it's ok to have addons, but it would be better if blizzard took that as an opportunity to peak on what the community of players WANT for the game to be comfy to be played. I downloaded a bag addon in 2009 for WOTLK why shoud I have to download an addon for my bags in 2024? Isn't it OBVIOUS that we want to manage our F. bags? be able to MOVE that bag to other place where is LESS annoying? I strongly dislike (I have to do it anyways) downloading 3rd party applications in order to SOLVE issues with the game itself, or te be able to see data that SHOULD be shown in the game in the first place. Like raidstats... how hard is to add that to your own profile so you can right click that paladin cuz you need to know if that 3 keys mondongo dude is atleast good with the paladin as it is really hard to truly know since the class almost plays itself. And what makes everything worse is that you're paying for the game in a monthly basis + you have to buy the expansion, I mean, I would've expect this from a free indie game but from BLIZZARD. And this is a 1 trick company for me, I love starcraft, i dont like diablo but I believe that blizard's biggest success is wow, I may be wrong but is MY opinion and I'm human, let me be. How can BLIZZARD be SO diligent with their favorite son? If we multiply the expansion purchase money, + every monthly payment + micro-transactions inside the game... from the very beginning of this WORLD OF WARCRAFT movement... That ammount, just taking the numbers, could be compared to the real value of π . And I understand that it's a company, it's a money factory... but damn, please? .
i came back to wow so often... and every time it was: - install WoW - search for all the Addons and UI stuff i "needed" - set up my UI and spells for about an hour - closing the game because i was annoyed of all that setup stuff... Removing ALL addons would make this game better.... absolutely
There are ways to fix this and still balance the hardest modes for the 1%. Make the benefit of all the hardest tier loot be PURELY COSMETIC. Make it really cool. Like if you are wearing a piece from the current expansion the character gets a mild glow that is obvious. And if they are wearing a full set they get an obvious glow that they can set the color of. Make it really stand out and showcase the player visually. But the stats are exactly the same as the next lower tier of loot.
Depleting keys is functionally the same as EverQuest 1 *removing* XP per character death (with resurrection spells in game restoring *most* of the lost XP). It was an artifact from D&D table-top rules where resurrection spells would bring characters back to life but at 1 level lower than right before the character’s death.
On the point for the difficulty scaling, this could be hard but it could still be possible. So like say a raid is taking place in an enemy fort, you split the raid up into 3 different sections, which effectively act as normal, heroic, and mythic. Yea it would be hard and probably would result in shorter raids, but overall, I think its a good middle ground for both camps.
Honestly. I have agreed with you every step of the way Asmon. As a gamer, I know exactly what you meant with your words, but never felt any rage towards you. Just the devs. They were trying to put too much into an already awesome system to try and make a game more awesome, along with nerfing stuff that didn't need to be nerfed. Like, who the fuck are you making the patches for? The gamers that you want to play the game, or the beta-testers that are clearly playing steps of content ahead of everybody else? Also, a 40 person raid would definitely be interesting to have again. I can't remember the last time I was in a 40 person raid learning and getting to know everyone that was going to be in the raid. It most certainly builds a level of trust and communalization amongst gamers. In fact, it feels like a lifetime ago when I was playing Vanilla for the first time on dialup. There were friends that I made in-game that I worked on my characters with along with helping them work on theirs. I even made friends with some level 60 people in-case I was getting unreasonably griefed by people.
I agree with you a 100%. I feel like with retail version of the game you just finally get gear to start either pvping or farming what ever it is and guess what NEW GEAR COMES ALONG and you gotta do it all over again. So in short you don’t really get to enjoy the gear you got. Sure i understand there are ppl playing this for hours per day and they might get bored with it but 90% of your players are limited with time.
I play a melee hunter in Classic SoD, and that's nearly impossible to do without a basic weak aura that displays when Flanking Strike and Raptor Strike are off cooldown. The problem is that Raptor Strike can reset it's own cooldown on each use, and also reset the cooldown of Flanking Strike. Well, you can either look at the mobs you're fighting, or look at your action bar to know when each ability is off cooldown, which can be any time at random. Setting up a weak aura that displays a small icon next to my character, in combat, gives me that cooldown info and allows me to continue playing like normal. I'm not sure if this would ever be a default UI option.
i knew raiding had an issue when i got to stone legion generals in CN on mythic and as a guild we went "were not gonna butt our heads against this wall, were going to wait for the nerfs before continuing prog" like what?
The biggest deathblow to raiding was the advent of LFR. It created a community of people who decided they didn't need guilds anymore, and they didn't need to commit to a group of other people. M+ is far more popular because it only requires 5 people, 45 minutes, and doesn't require a commitment beyond that. It's WAY easier to organize than a raid, and doesn't require ANY of the organizational or administrative requirements that running a successful guild does. And, yes, the reward is actually better too.
MoP is an absolute low point for class design. I'd say Cata, WoD, Shadowlands and Dragonflight are the peak class design. If I had to rank expansions by class design: Dragonflight > Cata = Shadowlands > WoD > Legion = BFA = WotLK > TBC > MoP > Vanilla.
I think a way to help with button bloat would be this. 2 generator spells, 2 spender spells, 1 ult spell, and 1 or 2 aoe spells. You can have as many spells as you want but that doesn't mean they should be in the main core rotation to play any class. Plus they can add combos to spells to make them feel better. For demo warlock, why not make it to were grimore of sacrifice turns you into a demon after so many of your demons dying. 6 or 7 spells for class and make them satisfying to press. There are so many cool things you can do. Unholy mini game after hitting a target use the parts you hit off to make a undead.
Haha, cheers for watching our video, hope you enjoyed it :D
Thanks for all your work brother! Best wow channel available 👑
Next youl have the response to the response video to work on lol 🎉
There really is no better wow channel than yours
good content 👍👍👍
My takeaway from this is: Nixxiom, who loves wow, wants it to be more role-play centered because that's what he likes. Unfortunately that aspect of the game wasn't forgotten, it was abandoned a decade ago. Sadly having more abilities in wow doesn't give you that opportunity to be what you want, at maximum you can only be "a warrior" or "a paladin". In honesty, the game Nix wants is the reason why I started my game dev journey. It's just not wow anymore. The add-on discussion is a misfire. You don't want add-ons, you want a better game.
I agree, the add-on controversy/discussion is a waste of time. I actually don't think add-ons or no add-ons will matter in the grand picture of things. The whole 'add-ons should be removed' argument is losing steam lately massively.
Whats sad is that the last expansion that focused on any sort of rp was legion. Each class campaign was vastly different and it made you feel like the class you were playing. And as much as people complained at the time the weapon appearances were a fun thing to chase, and best of all they weren't tied to power just cosmetic.
My takeaway: nixiom, who is sponsored by addons, likes addons. Don't really need to say more.
Nixiom would probably like Ascension Wow where you start classless and build your own abilities & talent trees.
@@greenfroggood2392 Me, who is not sponsored by addons, likes addons. Why? For me they fulfil the wish of my perfect customized and optimized UI with opportunity for funny stuff (Hadouken WA for Monk Abilitys for example. For other People it levels the skill requirement allows for a broader Skill brackets. That means top 600-500 Guilds are pretty close to each other skill wise and allows the choice of more Guilds your equal with in skill level.
The biggest reason my friends won’t play is “I don’t want to learn 15 years worth of information to play a game that charges me every month”
ive never played wow but i just subbed and am getting sucked into the game, ive always thought it was very interesting.
@@StevenP726 Which server?
i couldn't get into retail, but classic private servers have been a good way to get me into the game without committing
@@RealWaffles im actually bored of it now, too much shit. lmao
@@StevenP726 lmao
you may as well stick with one expansion route until you reach the current one
I regularly play with a woman who is in her 70's and she always gets overwhelmed with addons. It's too much for her. She just gets on to collect items from old raids etc. The way I spend my time in WoW is usually figuring out how I can solo old raids for her to collect mogs/items. All because she has no idea what's going on in raids that are killing her.
That's really sweet of you, dude. Hope you and that old lady friend of yours are doing great.
Great to see. My daughter and my mother play together on Final Fantasy 14, though they don’t raid. My 68 year old mother and my 11 year old daughter taking screenshots of them in some random nice view.
“Get good granny” -Mike Ybarra
I'd raid her L70 dungeon with a webster duster.
I know I may get my turn of being 70 and not understanding online Vidya of the mid 21st Century. Good looking out for her, my dude.
What makes an mmo fun…
1) Combat System
2) Character Progression
3) Community Engagement
What is not fun?
1) High barrier of entry for new players (add-ons, poorly designed and over punishing mechanics, class complexity)
2) Adverse of anything above
They could hire the addon devs and pay them well. It's an investment.
Cool looking gear is fun too (when its not behind a paywall)
Barrier of entry due to addons does not exist. It’s part of the progression
@@Phasma6969You're completely right but it wouldn't be profitable for Blizzard so they'd never do something like that despite how beneficial it'd be for the players.
I feel like you cant have too much community engagement but yeah
As a RP player, it saddens me how there is almost no RP element in WoW. Lore ? Everything is incoherent or retcon. RP ? Heck, we don't even have class trainer
that's been the hardest part of wow for me to get into. i play a classic rp server but when i ask how to get into lore i'm just told to watch videos on youtube, but i don't get 30 minutes in before i'm listening to retconned lore that doesn't apply to my version of the game
This is a late reply but.
Im also an RP player in 3 MMOs and DnD. From that perspective FF14 is so much more frustrating that WoW.
They might retcon lore but at least it exists. You know what year FF14 currently is in? Neither do the devs! Its up to you! How much is Gil, the in game currency, worth and how much would a non-main character have? Neither do the devs! Its up to you!
Timelines and currency function are some very basic world elements that 14 just glosses over making it nearly impossible to make a coherent RP world.
Elder Scrolls unsurprisingly has the best world function despite also having dragonbreaks (retcons) but it does have a fleshed out world that gives you insight to how 'regular' people live.
i miss when they had specific class content >.< those quests were always the best
nixion literally partners with zygors, ofc he does not want add ons to be deleted xDD
Bingo
Just like Limit wants their failed esport to dictate game design. Money. If they weren't getting paid for WoW, they would find some other niche esport to get sponsored by, because they suck at esports people actually care about in other countries. Their esport success also has a lot to do with weakauras scripts and Blizzard never banning the top guild who is sponsored by their partners for RL money trading etc. All the stories about how dirty Method was came out AFTER a publicity nightmare with Method Josh. Then Limit who were cheaters and banned constantly took over as the face of the esport.
who needs to learn a fight when the machine can tell them what to do..
@@hackintosh3899 more ppl watched the awc this year than mdi. prolly cause who wants to watch ppl in bis doing low 20s without a healer.
@@hackintosh3899 tbh, ion alreadycostus is reason for this bs.
The biggest problem with remove all addons is that blizzard is laughably incompetent at ui design.
This is so true. Playing the new plunderstorm, my biggest issue is the UI. I can’t believe they have giant NPC dialogue boxes pop up in the middle of your screen during a battle royale mode 😂
I'm legally blind so if add-ons were taken out I'd have to quit, I know there are thousands in this similar situation.
They should allow for more UI customization and that would at least allow people to make the UI more bearable
They don't have to bother because other people do their work for them.
came back early df and played without any addons.... it was so fucking exhausting, just because you need 120% of your brainpower to see the green effects on green background and bullshit
I loved all the MoP buttons it was amazing. When you mastered it you actually got into flow states from managing so many things at once. Mistweaver in BGs..if you didnt play it man you missed something. Placing Healing Spheres on the ground for uber-heals instead of just watching raidframes but still staying aware of those for normal heals and dispels while juggling 5 CCs, 4 movement abilities, heal cd's, defensive cd's and looking for low enemies to help get the kill....boy that was mastery.
Well shyyyyt, here I thought my MoP holy paladin was an art and a science to operate like a maestro mastermind but your healing monk description makes my paladin sound like a simpleton! I stacked haste, haste, and haste and took the "wrong" talents and I still wowed people, topped meters, and routinely got invited to raid groups. Greg Street truly delivered on "Bring the player, not the class" with MoP. Some called it "button bloat" and "homogenization". I concede we did have a lot of buttons but "homogenization" is a straight lie or incredibly ignorant. The many abilities meant there were often multiple correct or valid spells available to choose from at any given moment but the nuanced differences between them allowed a more skilled experienced thoughtful strategic or crafty player to let his personal attributes bleed over or seep through his combat choices to have in-game effects. I've one other time read someone saying healer monk in MoP was VERY well designed but he didn't mention specifics like you did.
@@lawrencemccreery3451 the bubbles were just so good. The mechanic of getting away from raidframes directly onto the battlefield and spamming them just a little ahead of where people were walking was incredible. It was a little mana intensive but you could top people off that had 5 dps on them.
What you described is exactly why MoP's class design was bad. On top of having spells that have the same function, it was a ton of bloat and in PVP it was CC and Utility hell. I had fun with it for a while, but it's not really special, it's just a lot of buttons and a lot of memorization/muscle memory, the flow is horrible on most specs and ranged were better than melee. On top of that MoP had the same problem as TBC where due to poor scaling some specs got simpler rotations by the end of the expansion.
Dragonflight and Shadowlands did having big rotations with a lot CC and Utility infinitely better than MoP. That's why WoD had to tune down from MoP and WoD actually got the class design great again. Sadly I think they over-pruned it for Legion and BFA.
@@ivankovachev8835 WoD was terrible. It was so slow and boring it felt like classes got a wheelchair. I will agree that CC was a Problem in MoP. I would however have liked to see more abilities that break CC instead. Wildstar was cool in that regard. You had to Spam a certain Button depending on what kind of cc you were in. Also killing someone was a little too hard. But still nothing compared to it for me since then.
@@mariooooo.o3404 WoD was between WotLK and MoP in terms of class design complexity(buttons to press), or maybe WotLK and Cata, beause Cata had more buttons to press. To say it's slow and bad is just not true.
And iirc WoD still had a lot of spells off the GCD, so it was faster than even Cata due to that, just had 1-2 fewer buttons per spec than Cata.
And yes built-in CC breakers or counters would have been great. And less mobility for classes in general in MoP.
Destroy addons and watch mythic raiding crumble. You shouldnt need a glossary of addons to make raiding/certain fights possible. Thats bad design.
Ive learned to listen to ques, voice lines and what not. Only 2 real add ons i use is dbm which i can live with out and details so i can improve on what im doin damage wise. Otherwise i dont clog my screen up of crap. Casual wise rare scanner for alerts and truestat. The stuff ive seen on mythic players screens is just to much.
yeah, totally agree.
IT's 100% bad raid designing even dungeon designs in general that Blizzard completely screwed up for years now. Just because some people use addons shouldn't = make the raid even harder.
That's why you don't play Mythic raids and high M+ keys, it's not fun.
@@ninjatvlv6101 "cues" is the word you're looking for.
Min-maxing is the death of fun. The feeling of accomplishment replaces the joy of simply playing, and with that change the game ceases to be a game. It becomes a hierarchy, with people investing far too much into it.
As with all things in life, it's best to be first. If you're not, the door gets closed in your face and you end up playing a game rigged against you.
Min-maxing is the death of fun... _for you_ . Many people find enjoyment in chasing the best performance. The challenge of critically thinking about the decisions they're making, and finding the best options which others have missed. If you don't enjoy that, then competitive online multiplayer games probably aren't for you. Play something else.
Thats how the games are working currently. You allowed to have fun for like 2 weeks from release and then sweatlords take over
@@ispear6337Min-maxxing is fun, without a doubt, as it kindof allows you to push the boundaries of the game. The issues is when the community gatekeeps content because someone hasn't min-maxxed to an acceptable amount despite either being able to do the content comfortably, or even have completed the content before. That was the issue I had with WoW. Felt like the people around me weren't having fun, and they would get mad at every little thing.
Min-maxing is fun, I don't wanna waste any more of my already wasted time in an MMO when I can min-max to help make it go faster, WHILE ALSO HAVING FUN WITH THE GUILD. I know, that's hard to grasp isn't it? lol...
You can play your own game style, find people who shares your same view, or even more play single player games. Telling people how to play online games and ask them to adapt on how you feel the game should play is so weird to me. Competitive multiplayer games are always going to be about pushing the game's limit.
I tried to get into WoW when Dragonflight was released, but I really couldn't and one of the reasons was that on top of figuring out the game I also had to figure out which addons to get and how to use them effectively
Addon's really aren't important until you break out of normal activities. When I say that, I mean, when you start the end game grind. You can have the entire experience of the expansion without ever leaving random raid finder. The rest is really just fluff. Chasing a carrot on a stick. Anything that's done in Mythic can be done on normal. Addon's become important when you start chasing things like mounts and achievements. Raid specific stuff like dps meters and DBM are only required once you go beyond that first tier of content.
You're a victim of the youtube rabbit hole, unfortunately.
@@FlockofSmeagleslmao not everyone wants to be a perma pug casual dude
@aidanproy1484 Yeah, and your point is? They felt lost playing the game and quit.
@@FlockofSmeagles my point is, the only appeal of world of Warcraft retail is the end game raiding, almost all of the other content is pointless unless you’re there just for the story. Pugging is boring, it just is. It’s also super fking easy. I guess if your enjoyment from world of Warcraft is to collect sht gear while never having a challenge fighting boring bosses then yes, you can get most of the experience from pugging, but if you want any level of fun, you should find a guild to do the norms with at the very least, and pref work up to heroic as they are very mildly challenging, mythic is where I could see a line drawn, mythic raiding is its own cesspool, just saying sitting in pug only has got to be one of the most boring ways to experience this game.
@@aidanproy1484 That's nice, but your point isn't addressing the fact that they were new and didn't know what to do. Pugging is boring. Shit, repetitively farming keys and weeklies for slight color variants and a stat boost is boring. My opinions, however, have no bearing on how a new player experiences the game. The fact is that Addon's aren't necessary for new players. The content that they experience is the same content that you experience beyond rdf. They've been fooled by UA-camrs who are suffering from the same bias that you are. New players don't know that they should find a guild for that specific purpose. They don't know if whether or not they like collecting mounts, mog, achievements, PvP, alt leveling, gold farming, etc... They don't know any of these things.
Which is what I was saying. I made a mild suggestion that they should complete the content that's readily available to them. So, that they actually get something out of the money that they spent. Instead of worrying about all of the fluff. Because, in the end. That's what "pug casual mode" is there for.
Oh wow, the guy who has a vested interest in an add-ons success doesn't want them to go away, big surprise.
Yeah kinda strange nixxiom is so RPG driven but advocates for adding that take ‘exploration’ away.
I agree with Asmon it should be a core part of the game and the first time you’ve explored that resource node it should be available to all ur toons.
I like both Nixxiom and Asmon, but there was a bit of hypocrisy with Nixxioms RPG take and push for addons. Heck, new players trying RPG are going to be lost without addons according to Nixxiom. 🤷
“No addons” obviously includes saying that blizzard should add all the convenient stuff that you fear losing if you lost all your addons.
Add some yea and loose some mechanics from the bosses.
All players should have the same "game".
I think that’s fair…. Big problem I see is most wow lifers / add on enjoyers are making it seem like they want the add ons instead of wanting the devs actually work to have a good default UI. Let’s stop defending dev’s lazy work on their own game. They basically sat back and let their playerbase slave away and solve their own shortcomings
To be fair, I think in arguments we shouldn't assume that. But, I am fairly certain just about every single time Asmon has mentioned "remove addons" in this arguments he adds "and blizzard needs to add these QOL addons as well"
they already have though
@@GX-105D Oh really? I missed the part where the default WoW UI gives you 20 different notifications about when your abilities are coming off cooldown and 10 different timers ticking down for boss mechanics while warning you when you're standing in something.. I think you people literally think that DBM and Weakauras are built into WoW now..
ESO is perfect example of class/gear balancing. Equal values across all gear with pro/cons that lean into play style preference. New content provides exciting new loot to get, but at the same time gear from 5 years ago is still viable.
One of the best times I've had raiding was in a no dbm/bigwigs guild. Everyone was actually more attentive and we had a lot of fun learning what the bosses do on the fly.
I don't think it was dbm, I think the issue is with wow designing fights to be too difficult to almost impossible without addons. WA make it so you don't even need to pay attention to what's going on
@@Cr3w96 I have played a long time even CE without heavy add-on use, but the amount of stuff to keep track of is getting ridiculous. We've been in this race for a while of blizzard trying to design fights to be difficult for add-on users, but it's just adding a lot of fatigue for normal people.
Best time I've had in wow since vanilla was raiding in classic with a green gear/no addons or wbuffs guild. It was almost a true vanilla experience :)
Imagine if a boss in a raid had the ability/spell to turn off all of the add ons for the rest of the raid lol see how many ppl can clear it
The gear used to reset every expansion. We were doing Naxx in MC & BWL gear. That felt like character progression. Having your gear reset every patch is just nonsensical and negates any feeling of progress you had/have.
the guy sponsored by a paywalled addon doesn't want addons removed. big surprise
Imagine payed a add-on..
i've never needed addons to not stand in fire in a raid, green is heal, npc walks means kill one npc to not wipe, green blob is poison, not a hard concenpt
im not sponsored by a payed addon and i dont want them gone either. If WoW got rid of its addons i would completely uninstall the game and never look back.
cringe internet shut in neckbeard conspiracy theory, typical
@Malix2238
Good riddance.
Addons are cancer. You shouldn't need 3rd party code to tell you how to play a game.
The devs build the game assuming people have that advantage and it becomes an arms race fewer and fewer people care to participate in.
Not to mention a 3 day, 4 hour raid schedule, but doing everything you need to do that week to even go to the raid. Farming consumes, mythic +, being caught up on quests, grinding things out, making sure your addons and weakauras are up to date. It burned me out so fast. It's a full time job.
Yeah, and i don't understand why do grown men even try do defend this shit. How you can have a full time job and really think that you have to get another one just to get loot from the raid bosses.
@@anywaylose3999 It's about doing something you want to do rather than something you have to do to get money and stay alive. Work isn't work if you're enjoying it.
@@saphironkindrisyou have that the wrong way round
Do something you love and it's not like work:)
@@stephencollins9062 "Work isn't work if you're enjoying it" ?
@@saphironkindrisabsolutely NOT true. I do what I love for a living, still feels like work and I won’t do it for free.
27:10 "I want to have a bunch of spells and abilities that i can choose from..." - proceeds to look at icy veins on daily basis to see the best rotation for most damage
lmao
Basically the ascension wow meta.
Elemental Shaman's main rotation in Legion was the goat. You had a dot (flame shock) to maintain, you had a spam spell (lightning bolt), you had a proc based on the dot (lava surge), you had a finishing spell that was based on damaging spells (Earth Shock), and you had two spells that you swapped out when you were in an AoE/Cleave situation (chain lightning, earthquake). There were oh shit buttons, there were fuck you buttons, there was flavour buttons around this but that core rotation made playing an ele a treat.
Elemental shaman was my go to since launch and yes in legion you felt like a literal god and when lightning lasso was a thing holy shit PvP was so fun
thats what ele shamans were like in wotlk and cata as well but then you also had a suite of totems that you placed down that would buff you and those around you with 1 button press and could also put them all away with 1 button press and i felt like a damn shaman not anything else. now they just feel like a nature mage with more armour and i dont feel like a shaman anymore =(
Frost DK was Simple and Satisfying (DPS) In WoTLK.
Outlaw Rogue was Simple and Satisfying in Legion.
Ret Pally in Dragonflight is nuts and super fun to play.
But now Frost DK has Remorseless Winter and zero diseases to maintain which makes Frost DK boring now.
Outlaw Rogue and the "Roll the Bones" Ability is trash now.
I'd prefer to select my own abilities and buff said abilities through talents and such.
Being forced to use an ability you don't like is what I find hard tbh.
That’s basically the same rotation as retail now minus like primordial wave/icefury…
Storekeeper was also added in legion so, not that different really lol
ele shaman had the exact same rotation in cata, you retail andies are somethin else man
The amount of comments regarding the content of a 50 minute video, 16 minutes after it came out, shows that people care more about their own opinion than hearing the entire argument before opening their mouths lmao
So true
You included.
...bro they probably watched it live 😭 😭 😭
Who watches something live just to rewatch an edited version of it? I guess that special kind of person REALLY cares about their own opinion enough to watch the same content twice just to comment.
@@joschmo4497 he's not commenting on the video though, he's commenting on a number of comments you can see before watching the entire video, good luck thinking in the future tho
42:00 the old Lord of the Rings Online has features to combine all your bags into one panel or shrink 5 bags down to 4 or less, you can fully rearrange the UI, its not impossible, never let a dev tell you something is impossible.
Same with final fantasy XIV, y can rearange everything and do 1 bag, no addons needed...
Same in gw2
Imagine needing 5 different mods just to beat elden ring bosses
That's pretty odd.
don't stand in fire in 3...2...1
@@GX-105D i can hear the train horn
imagine needing addons to raid in wow
@@gabagoolx B E W A R E
My friend group and I, we didn't realize how lucky we were to get into Rift just before it went free-to-play and died a few years later.
I miss the HL raids in Storm Legion, but it seemed so normal at the time. The litany of "user joined your channel" before we started, the way King Boss Mod lighted up a firework every time the boss pulled a heavy one, the adrenaline when you were among the 4 or 5 last standing in a party of 20...
And if you wiped in Rift, one person spent their 1h cooldown "soul-walk" then mass-resurrected the whole party. Some had "fake death" skills and could reset without dying. Worst case scenario, the guild could plant a flag to summon you. It all seemed so normal to me, but really we were blessed. We lived through the last hours of a golden age.
Rift was so SICK. EXTREMELY underrated.
Rift was a good game. It just never got the support and updates it needed to keep the game alive. Calling a new dungeon that's just a repaste of an old one is garbage. And selling a raid staf for 2k USD, I mean who did they think they were? Star Citizen?
Rift the MMO!? If it received more support it could have been greater.
I played rift on launch, and it was awesome at the time. It's sad to see what's become of it now.
@@Schwaka I tried it some months ago just to see if anyone playing and I saw 2 players ;(. Still it was really nostalgic and fun just lvling alone for some hours just to experience it again. But yeah kinda dead.
10 spells is perfect, 6 for general use 4 for situational. If the class gets a group buff it should be passive, like leader of the pack was. The Evoker is well designed in this manner, there are 6 things you do, 4 or 5 situational things to do and they can change depending on spec but you still have that 6/4 split. I am also talking rotational, obviously you have more than 10 spells on an Evoker.
My guild was doing Heroic and maybe a few Mythic bosses by the end of the raid tier. We had a relaxed schedule, played other games at the same time and were not good at WoW.
It was the second most fun gaming experience for me after Souls games. Literally amazing. The only reason I don't play anymore is because my friends quit, and playing with random people is not as fun.
I don't know, maybe the game is in fact designed around the top 1%, but it was certainly fun for us.
I agree on other points, like add-ons and walkbacks.
Adding raid difficulties gutted the amount of content we received each expansion and you can see that trend by looking at the dungeon journal.
After heroic difficulty was introduced, the next expansion had fewer dungeons and raids, and after they added mythic, there were even less. After people complained and asked for more content, they did the bare minimum to add more raids and dungeons, but it never really recovered to pre heroic numbers
Adding different difficulties also makes balancing harder. Which also causes people to be meta slaves. For example there are builds which only work if you have the stats which the top gear gives. But the majority of people don’t have that gear and would do better with a build around the gear lvl they have. But if anyone tries something different they get flamed for not being meta.
Yeah and now WE are only getting 8 Boring Dungeons and 3 boring raids
Sl Had way better Dungeons and raids
@@mabbook oh god yes... immedaite PTSD kicking in from BfA fire mages in the last tier. The specc was pure god meta, as long as you had the secondary stat breakpoints provided through mythic gear. In all other circumstances, frost was just waaaaay more comfortable. Easy rotation, great feeling due to tremendous million damage crits by your giant frost thingy, and overall not so reliant on secondary stats. But trying to get into a raid or m+ as frost? HAH FUCK YOU!
In Wildstar you had 8 slots to put your spells and skills in. Each class had a lot more than 8 spells and skills, but you could only choose 8 for your rota. I think that was a great system. There was a meta for most classes, obviously, but it still allowed customization and playing felt tight and engaging, compared to WoW's playing-a-piano level of skills to juggle.
Like guild wars
wildstar was so good! It dies too soon, and I'm still not sure why, maybe I'll see if someone did a breakdown of How it failed.
So, going off of Nixxiom's video.
Asmon Argument #1. I can agree with this. There's been a few times when I've come back to WoW just to check out what's new, see the new expansion, etc to only then have to go through the nightmare of having to read the 40 - 50+ spells just to remember what they do and where I need to put them on my hotbar. Then after that, make sure all of my keybinds are setup the way I like them and makes it easier for me to hit the spells when I need them. There's just way too much clutter and this is before I even get to the last argument.
Asmon Argument #2 - Part 1. This one I'm on the fence about. 40 man raids would be awesome, but like Nixxiom said, it would be a nightmare to setup, get ready etc. Plus, I can still remember the amount of NOISE in voice comms during the raid. Too much noise is a huge sensory thing for me, personally. But, like you said, it's more of a vibe thing.
Asmon Argument #2 - Part 2. Having only one raiding difficulty is fine with me. I was okay when they introduced Heroic, it wasn't a huge deal for me, however, once they introduced Mythic in MoP and fleshed it out more in WoD, I wasn't a huge fan. Having Normal and Heroic raids to me was like the equivalent of picking what difficulty you wanted to play a single player game on, you choose the experience you want to have. Once Mythic was introduced, it felt more like Blizzard forcing in more unnecessary gear grind for gear that would be irrelevant come next patch/expansion. Having one difficulty and similar experiences for everyone would feel better.
Asmon Argument #3. I agree with this completely. Addons were one of a few reasons why I stopped playing WoW. The screen becomes way, way too cluttered with them and it did feel like the game was being played for me. I didn't have to be nearly as aware of anything when raiding or even doing something as simple as dungeons. I would zone out a lot of the times and just go through the motions. It made endgame content extremely boring for me. My biggest addon beef is with the parsing/damage meter addons. I really feel like raiding has been gatekept now because of them. "Oh, you're not doing (x amount) of dps, get out of here." I've had this experience a small handful of times when trying to get back into the game and trying to get back into raiding. I've been kicked from a few raids because of it, despite doing the mechanics almost perfectly.
But, just like Asmon has his opinions, these are mine. I loved WoW - and a small part of me still does - but it really comes down to the game has changed so much that it just isn't for me anymore. I do want to see the game succeed and hope for the best for it. The players that are still involved with this game deserve it.
i think button bloat is an issue but if u have 10 buttons in a rotation and another 5 that are 2 min or 5 min CDs that contribute to changing ur rotation or being impactful that's fine. i think no retail player wants the game to become the snorefest classic is with 1 button rotations. it becomes an issue when u have multiple buttons u don't need or that do the same thing as something else.
@@AlmostMeantToBe And I agree, 1 button rotations would be a snooze fest and it would really hurt class identity. They would have to find a happy middle if they were to reduce the amount of spells each class has. It's just a little frustrating that the WoW UI has gotten so cluttered even without addons that it's getting close to almost needing a 2nd keyboard and a 14 button mouse just to do even the simplest of content in the game
Agreed. There’s a design principle that I love that blizzard has lost sight of and that’s “meaningful change, not change for changes sake”
I think the reason why he wants 40-man raid, other than it sounds cool, is that you can have spare slots for other players to join in, like extra healers, extra tanks, etc. If you lose some people on the way, its not gonna be an immediate wipe. And all around, Its just gonna be easier for people to join a raid.
If you are a real one you know that the idea of a 20man raid is more realistic because out of a 25man 20 people are ready to raid on time 9/10 times. A 40man is a nightmare to wait on people and to manage.
That's only if you need 40 players who can all handle mechanics with perfect teamwork. You can have some absolute passengers (and/or pugs) if not everyone needs to have a brain cell to clear the raid as long as the average is good enough.
Whenever I think of returning to the game the number one thing that blocks me is remembering I have to spend 1-2 sessions downloading and setting up my UI and addons. Then remembering I forgot an addon and having to disrupt my gameplay to download and set that addon up. Addon dependency is too high, and it's bloated the game. Blizzard over the years should have baked in these features.
Couldn't agree more with this comment 👏
To add on to the single difficulty conversation: Even with a 'solved' game Classic Ulduar hard modes were difficult enough for a typical guild to take multiple weeks gearing up before registering an Algalon or 0 light kill. I agree and think this is a good level of difficulty.
And thats fine, you can add some difficulty layers like hardmodes. They didnt offer the same gear with a higher ilvl, they offered different gear. Some classes wanted those items more than others, which made for a fun dynamic when looking for raid groups. But the whole 4-Difficulty-Setting we are currently in, is just stupid. Why would i want to run anything but mythic? Its not like i get different items depending on difficulty, i get the very same items just with a different ilvl. Thats ridicilous... and mythic is so stupidly inaccessable that i wont be able to get CE in my current life situation. I can afford to raid once per week, and that was enough for wotlk ICC 25 heroic back in the day...
Vanilla WoW was the best template for any MMO hands down. It needed some adjustment, but it's design had way more going for it.
vanilla wow is the worst time of the game, best template? XD get off that nostalgia gas.
@@ShiirowAverage Azerite enjoyer opinion
Holy smokes the retail andys are so cringe
All vanilla wow had was raiding. Raid or die is terrible end game content
@@laoch5658 had replay ability that no other expansion had, once you raid logged you could enjoy leveling another character you had not experienced yet and by 60 you had a grasp on it and at some level every level 60 was at least somewhat competent at their class.
Nobody wanted to have to level to 60 again and then do Outland to 70 AGAIN, each expansion it got worse and worse however Vanilla wow was always populated at every level bracket all the time
As a gamer that played wow for one expansion. I agree 100% that add-ons ruin the game. For a start it probably took me 10+ hours to get them set up right as a healer. But things like DPS meters promote toxicity and add-ons generally mean players have a far different experience based on what they've done outside of the game which is wrong IMO
27:03 I would think the more RPGs you play, the more you’d realize that most systems do place lots of limits on the number of spells. For example, D&D always limits spells in some way. Even for “open spell casting” classes like Druid, which can theoretically use most of the Player’s Guide spell section, the Druid is limited to only the certain amount of spells they can prepare each night.
Good times, when a single guild denies the entire server from achieving end game in mmo..till 2 expansion later
not everything needs to see the end bosses of mythic its a skill check and only a small increase in power, mythic isnt a give me or handed out like a participation medal not everyone needs to clear it or should
@@itsmechrispy6083 Why tho? What purpose does it serve? Please the .01%?
@@heathensein6582 "Anything that doesn't cater to my desires has no right to exist"
@@zym6687 That's literally the argument you're trying to make with the only difference is that raids being that hard is the desire of .01%
@itsmechrispy6083 You people are so insufferable.. can you imagine making Elden Ring so hard that 0.1% of players can beat the last boss and then saying, "Well, beating the last boss iSn'T fOr YoU". Get the f*** outta here with that BS. If Mythic raiding required me alone to do the fight mechanics and take down the boss, I'd go clear it right now. Getting 24 other people together on a job-like schedule and having it so EVERY one of them has to all dance perfectly with zero missteps and 20 add-ons to hold their hands is absolutely ridiculous gameplay design..
I'm at the 10 minute mark, and Asmon is speaking to something I was complaining about back when WotLK was in it's prime. The endgame is designed with addons in mind. My take back then was, make a customizable UI and ban addons. This would eliminate the need for boss fights to be more and more complex to counteract addons. It was a vicious loop then and it's only gotten worse.
Thing about 40 man raiding is that it can work, as long as required number to kill boss is less than that, but 40 is max you can have to make it easier. Soo let's say every raid boss was tuned with 20 ppl in mind, but every additional person can be counter as a "support" so bonus healing and dps that isn't REQUIRED to kill a boss, but would make killing the boss easier. Then 40 man would return with a vengeance and only try hards and world first raiders would have problem with it (also heroic and normal are already 30ppl max soo lol).
Thing is that it would be easy to implement even now, since if you think about it, most bosses on wow are artificially difficult due to enrage time. Which is why you often wipe on mythic when single person die, because you can't dps boss down before enrage hits. If you remove it, i believe at least first few bosses on mythic would be 10'manable
used to be we had a few trash packs on route to boss, but they would introduce us to the boss' abilities. now, they are just like a parking lot full of road humps. their idea of making bosses more difficult apparently means to make so much go on that u have to move constantly, while at the same time making it possible for one person to wipe the raid.
?...... raids in classic had a fuck ton of trash lmao
@@polowy9126 who said they didnt? im obviously referring to the trend with latest xpacs in which trash became trash for the sake of having more trash. if ur implying i should be cool with that since the oldest raids had a "fuck ton" of trash, then u missed the fucking point.
@@Poesjewel Except 90% of trash can be easily skipped lmao. In modern WoW theres lots of way to skip compared to Classic.
@@polowy9126 there is a gigantic difference between trash that can be mass-pulled and shredded (ICC in wotlk comes to mind), and trash that needs to be pulled pack by pack unless you want to wipe.
@@polowy9126 except when that one person runs into a skippable pack and dies, delaying the raid.
Blizzard should create their own add on which tells you what mechanics are coming up and what to do etc then ban all of the addons. That way everyone has what they need and all players have access to them. It would help them design bosses better too because the data they get from people will be more reflective. It doesnt need to be an add on per se more of a game feature
Some players are in Blizzard's cave, and when they come to see other games outside the cave they just get blinded and scared, like how could WoW not be a perfetctly designed game, and run back to into cave to do some random reputation farm or smth.
"I didn't see the light until I was already a 30-year man and by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!" --old Ultima Online or EverQuest neckbeard
i have played on and off since vanilla. swapping between retail and classic the last years. recently i been a multi class tank player on a decent "high level". after taking a break i lost all my addons and weakauras in a reinstall. I can not come back. the setup and personal customisation will take me most likely as much time as leveling a character 1-60 in classic. im not willing to invest that much time for no gain other then having a proper ui set up.
Having both 40 and 20 man raids is the way to go, but different raids. Just like we had MC/BWL/etc... and then ZG. 40 man is way funnier, cooler and improves the community aspect of the game, but, having those side raids of 20 gives the possibility for smaller guilds / groups of friends to play together off-hours.
Honestly, even if Asmon didn’t play a day of wow in his life his opinion would have validity to it.
Why? Because WoW players vs other Gamers is so interestingly touched upon in this video.
Staysafe also made a good point, a lot of players quit over the years.
The solution starts with asking: What to do to draw players back to the game? Why do gamers who never touched wow say, “shit I could never get into that” or “WoW doesn’t look new player friendly.”
As a current mythic raider, shit’s not that hard btw, harder dungeons and raids will not solely cut it while trivializing everything else.
I found the WoW vs other players part of this video interesting as well. What some WoW players complain about is what some of us older gamers loved about older games. Taking an hour after wiping to a raid boss? That's when we would joke around and have some fun. Building relationships with our fellow guildmates. That to me is why EQ has it's die hards that wont give it up. They are connected to the people they are with on a much deeper level. I miss all of my fellow raiders in EQ. Wish I could track them all down and visit with them. We all had so much fun for years fighting our way through content and it's those relationships that make a game hard to quit, or hard to leave. Thus creating it's sustainability over a long period of time.
WoW certainly has it's own sustainability in a way that it was many peoples first mmo. Their first love of MMO gaming. It brought in so many new players to the MMO genre. So many of those people think that WoW was the first of it's kind and very basic, while it really was more advanced in many ways.
THE ROACH LIVES FOREVER!!!!
How do you kill that which has no life?
@@id2k.You end your own.
By giving it life so that life can be taken away.
It's in the walls
The roach hasn’t met the chancla yet
I've played plenty of games, and while WoW has it's pit falls, it's still a great game. It's different from every other game because of how rich it is, and this is coming from someone who quit raiding and running M+ all the time because that truly is boring. But in an rpg leveling up is important, but it loses it's importance when the only reason you are grinding for gear is to grind for gear. I spend the majority of my time questing, actually playing the game to completion, and it's way more enjoyable. It makes running the dungeons when it comes time to actually fun and memorable and the experience is enriching. I think a large problem with this game though is how it appeals to the modern gamer using paragraphs of text for every quest that you pick up. Unfortunately not many people like to read, and you can just do the quests without reading, but you miss out on a lot of context. Blizzard could probably address this with future expansions by adding dialogue to every quest giver, which would probably be expensive ad tedious to create, but a solution is a solution. You could even make the text to speech addon part of the game, and possible create tones of voice that mimic every race/gender. Beyond that, WoW needs to put more fun social activities into the game. We've seen that they are capable of adding mini games in through the various world quests, so why not make some that have high score, or reward special currencies, or have aspects of multiplayer or coop? WoW is still a wonderful adventure game to play, but it is missing out on so much potential that the corporate board probably doesn't allow for devs to explore.
Everytime a friend talks me into playing wow again, I think long and hard about how long downloading addons and setting up my ui is going to take and I'm like "nah I'm good".
I've gotten 3 CE with just Weakauras and cosmetic addons.
Realistically, unless youre a top 100 guild, you don't NEED anything aside from DMG and Weakaura
Do addons help. Absolutely. Do you need them for the VAST MAJORITY of what players do? No. It's a self imposed crutch that the shit part of the community relies on, and chooses to do.
I just use ElvUI and it's a super fast UI setup
I'd love to see them make mythic and heroic raids drop the same ilvl gear. Give mythic a different cosmetic appearance or something to still set it apart.
I think raid designs should have been done as follows:
You can raid them as many times as you want, they are very easy to clear; but you have to beat them faster (or in specific ways) to get additional drops.
So a casual guild can go through the content, bring in alts to carry at will, ect ect; fun will be had by all. Then there should be additional challenges that they can engage with should they want to, or even challenges tailored to specific group compositions.
I can imagine a fight designed to be completed with a party of over 50% healers, one that test their ability to pick the right target to tag (not necessarily burst down) or your typical don't stand in the fire fights. With enough creativity a single boss could be defeated in multiple fashions and each way you defeat it could offer different loot.
Not "hard-modes" but alternative ones that takes focus away from DPS and HPS.
😂😂
I never understood why they had to add mythic dif.. perfect for me was normal and HC and challenge mode wich only rewards cosmetics
@@rahn45 The perfect balance of that was Ulduar imho. A casual raid was well able to clear the whole Raid without many issues, and if you wanted to get a few more items, you could turn on the hard mode. Progressively hard modes got easier the longer the content went on, because people were catching up with gear, leaving only 1-2 hardmodes really challenging (yogg+0, firefighter come to mind). And thats fine! If the difference between you and a top-tier player is a single item, it doesnt feel as bad as having a difference of 13 ilvl's across your entire gear.
Having done mythic raid it involves grinding the appropirate gear, learning the raid, becoming accepted into an appropriate raiding group, gathering the required gold and/or consumables. Then commiting time (above what you already commited). My eyesight isnt the best, I am impatient about keeping up with the grind but I've done it before and it isn't because i'm a top player. In the DF expansion the guild I'm in had a raid group and it split into a mythic group and a heroic group. There were people in the heroic group that finished heroic but the group trailed off. I think there ended up being too many distractions and it was not easy to casually move people in and out of the group as they had other commitments. Looking at how fast the race to world first is going on now compared to how long it took out way back when there were not only puzzles that had to be figured out but there wasn't a huge structure of support people getting the raiders the gear needed. I like hard options (pvp, things like visions in BFA, the maw in Shadowlands) and I like working with large groups (sometimes) but watching normal people break down tear their hair out & groups that like to play the game go insane because they are trying to raid is really stressful. On raid trash: it is very odd to has trash in a raid that wipes a group that isn't being wiped by the nearby bosses. Before our heroic group quit raiding we were having to invite pugs and every week our raid leader had to explain the raid again, and again, and on some bosses ask if people had a specific weakaura. My particular weakness in the end was the flying interlude on the last 2 bosses which just required practice, which you could not get without grinding high content (it was not just dragon flying but learing how to avoid certain lights and pick up other lights). And yet nobody wants to invite someone to play heroic raid another time that same week and reduce the loot chances for the group. So basically wow was weeding out guild groups where the group didn't make it to the end and most of the individuals in the group didn't run off and pug the same content to get the practice in. That is basically punishing the casual 90% of any fun guild.
Classic vanilla was so fun cause u only only like a 4 spell rotation. I think i used 2 different ranks of flash heal, renew and bubble on my priest
Nah. Play mage in classic WoW and say that shit is anywhere near "fun". the fun in classic primarily comes with the community and people you play with, not the braindead mechanics and lack of anything to do
I am more in favor of 20 man raids, but if all the things Asmon suggests were implemented, easier raids, no combat add-ons meaning fights aren't designed around them, etc, 40 man probably wouldn't be as bad. Yeah you'd have to get a bunch of people together, but you wouldn't need all 40 of them to be top of the shelf mythic gods. Just roll up and go. An easier 40 man experience maybe with a little dash of chaos
Raiding in Classic was way more fun across the board than even WotLK. Doing BWL/AQ40 where you can afford to have some people fuck up and be idiots with only a handful of potential raid wipe mechanics is fun. Doing ICC where there are fights like Heroic Lich King (before the buff) where if ONE person makes a single mistake the fight is just over is not fun.
Classic was more about managing people than anything else. Made it fun.
I think thats something that a lot of people dont realize. If you take the current raiding climate, 40-man would be a straight up impossible nightmare to deal with. But with easier raids, where you can compensate mistakes? And actually enjoy a chill experience? That would be awesome.
I've played wow off and on since vanilla. Played EQ before that and UO before that. Asmon absolutely nailed the problems with this game. Mainly that it is too damn hard. So many people are afraid to say that because they get labeled as bad or a noob. Yea, whatever. I shouldn't need to take a typing class to play a game. I shouldn't need 10 hotkeys and then 10 more with shift modifiers and 10 more with control modifiers. I shouldn't need 20 addons and 40 weak auras. It's ridiculous.
Hire this dude as an mmo consultant fr
the difficulty in mythic raiding comes from finding 19 other players who aren't brain dead, then it's just repetition
Actually true. All you need to do in mythic raiding by yourself is just step out of fire, kill mobs, if boss summoning them, and do the dmg/heal. The only difficulty is finding another people that can do the same
that's cute and all, but the addons do most if not all of the job for you.
so why is it then that there are under 700 guilds that killed Fyrakk mythic? Fight addons are shit and too hard content is also shit, but its not like the content is trivialized by these addons.
I think 2 difficulties are the best for WoW. For raids a difficulty that is as hard as Ulduar 25 man would be Normal and another one that is as hard as Cata/MoP Heroic would be the Hard difficulty.
For dungeons you just have leveling dungeons, then you scale all non-max level dungeons to max level once you ding max level. At max level you have Normal difficulty and you have one more that is Hard difficulty.
Now another thing WoW should consider is horizontal progression. They should scale all non-current Raids to Normal Raid difficulty in terms of tuning and ilvl(or slightly below 6-8ilvls below), this way every new tier all previous raids are relevant content. And you can do 1 non-current raid + 1 current raid per week. Then you can upgrade the non-current raid gear with Valor points(or some other currency).
I loved wrath.
Played prot war, armor pen was hilarious.
Played fire mage.
Demo lock.
Enhance shaman.
Frost and blood death knight.
Prot pally.
When I came back in bfa I hated almost every class I tried. Pretty much just played fury war and bm hunter.
Fire mage was one of the most infuriating. Hot streak was a fun proc in wrath, in bfa it was something you has to actively create with consecutive crits. They literally changed fun into work.
work.
i get how u feel, but bc u want a slow lazy roation doesnt mean everyone does. i think retail is good bc they have slow lazy rotations like warrior or hunter and fun dynamic proc classes, or builder spenders, or burst window classes. there's a variety of playstyles instead of just the press things off cd 5 button classes.
@@AlmostMeantToBe Bm was indeed one of the slowest and easiest specs but fury was the highest apm spec in bfa.
I got no problem with a fast paced rotation, I have a problem with a very complex rotation that needs you to pay very close attention to buffs/debuffs and react perfectly.
Wotlk hot streak worked the same it was 2 crits in a row
@@darylsdog9521 Its been so long that I honestly didn't recall how it worked in wrath. But my original point, that it was just a fun thing that happened in wrath but is work in retail, is still valid since retail has guaranteed crit abilities that are ment to be used for actively generating hot streaks and wrath did not.
16:54 1000%
Look at halo skulls. Imagine if there were similar modifiers you could add to raids for different/additional rewards.
The worst part is Blizz had some great Esports games but chose to ignore them like HoTS.
Hard versions of the game are fun for some people. I could see a compromise where the Heroic and Mythic gear has the same Ilvl but the Mythic gear has different models titles and mount rewards for the end boss.
So glad Ybarra is gone tbh, couldn't stand the guy
Too bad, now how am I going to make mole?
Same
The add ons are exactly why I’m not starting WoW.. that’s just too time consuming to learn about all of that just to start playing the game.
Thinking about the loot point, I think about the Shadowmourne quest chain in ICC; it actually led to more people raiding because A) they were beating Arras, B) they were Earning stuff for the axe, and C) they needed people until it could be solo.
Sneed's feed and seed
Formerly Bob's.
Lmao Formerly Chucks would be such a good guild name.
EDIT: I immediately checked and there is such a guild looool
I stopped raiding after Throne of Thunder after being a avid raider for years, I dabbled a bit in Warlords of Draenor as well, because I got into a guild filled with a very nice friendly group of people who happened to raid mythic. But the mechanics in Mythic is just difficult for the same of being difficult. Most of the fights aren't enjoyable most of the time, nor do they have a nice sense of rhythm to them. I've said it for years now. Last time I truly enjoyed the raiding aspect was the hardmode ICC and Ulduar. The extra mechanics that were introduced made the fight feel complete. It was a challenge to get things organised with the people you played with, but they weren't really difficult. But it was a fun challenge.
Now you need to keep track of everything between 3-7 abilities per phase per boss and at the end you got about 28 abilities to keep track of. It becomes so much for no reason than to make it convoluted and forces everyone to use addons and trackers in order to deal with the fights. Some of my friends still raid mythic and 80% of their screen is addons that assist them with the fights. They barely see their characters anymore. The game would benefit immensely if the game was playable without addons, especially having to sim gear in order to tell if it's good or not. It just shafts the new players especially as many don't know where to get addons, nor do they know what stats are good.
I hope they make the raiding content enjoyable, not just difficult for the same of being difficult. Before that happens, I won't step into raiding again. I've gone 2 expansions now without any raiding and I couldn't be happier with the way I enjoy the game now.
I remember playing Age of Conan and we had a guy literally timing stuff with a stopwatch on bosses and making calls, those were the days.
I did that ! Sadly it was on the first version of the first raid and....
We got no loot at the end because it was bugged.
@@XMAlek Yea Funcom sucks but that game was so fun until we ran out of PvE content, such a shame.
@@georges4266tbh we were on top guilds and felt too much like beta testers that we stopped fast.
The end game donjon with the boss that just don’t die, the guild vs guild were you had to farm for days to create defense not appearing on battle and you just lose. The first raid being just a handful of monsters that gives 0 loots, etc…
The game was great with the tutorial but after. It was awful. It was fixed after but it was too late for us.
19:07
This is partly why strike missions became so popular in Guild Wars 2. It's literally one boss in an arena, no trash. You enter instance, kill the boss, get the loot, leave, go next.
Granted, 80% of the strike missions are piss easy.
Is kind of why I quit GW2. Too much mindless zerging. Grind became shallow at max level. I did it at original GW2 of course. The whole allure of challenging zones despite level wasn't a thing. You could just clap anything you wanted what was lower level.
@@HHalcyon Was talking about instanced PvE, but sure.
Personally, I feel the raid should provide gear at the same level for everyone with higher settings giving transmog. Raids are an ending to the xpac story they should want most of the player base, making it through the raid.
poopsocker
In reference to players of MMORPG's that instead of taking a break to go to the bathroom, they take off their sock, defecate in it, and throw it aside for later disposal. Refers to someone who stays up all day and all night to play an MMORPG.
That is wild
It also is ridiculous that the raid encounters are so difficult that it takes people that are considered the best warcraft raiders in the world hundreds of attempts to kill one boss.
nah thats how it should be! last boss of a mmo should not be killed by everyone. i dont get where this logic come from that everyone should be able to do everything in every game. when i was a kid and we played nes. we didint get to the last boss in most game. did we cry that it was too hard and we should be able to kill it? hell nah. saying everything is too hard is whats ruining gamin g atm lol
@@phatal4573Think again, what makes a player happy? Winning and get rewards for it. Doesnt matter how hard it is. Its always satisfying for a gamer. If you build a game around the
That resulted in MILLIONS watching on twitch which brings people to the game (Sub numbers showed a steady growth since the race)
@@polowy9126it brings people to the game only for them to realise they wouldn’t be able to replicate what they saw on stream in any foreseeable future. After that they quit.
@@phatal4573 Last boss of a mmo should not be killed by everyone? Despite the fact that literally everyone can because of LFR? Also, who decided that? Sounds like maybe you were just bad at NES games when you were younger, which is fair because most kids, myself included, literally didn't have the years of experience playing games that we do now. Plus the term 'Nintendo difficulty' is real for older, shitty games that were on the NES.
You can show Asmon a picture of an item and wow and he will name it for you. Not only will he name it but he will tell you where to get it if it was from a quest, or raid, or world drop. He is wow
Nixxiom has become just a pandering yes man. He gives the safest opinions that are going to please the most people in a bid to save his dying channel and relevance.
He should of stuck with his animations I think thats where he shines but I get he might be tired of it
@@DirtyDooney22 asmons reaction to when he picked him up from that rock was priceless
In expansion to Asmon's take on addons. I think the point that he is trying to drive home is that ever feature that you are receiving from addons should be given to you from Blizzard. In the short term it may require more resources to develop those features in house but then Blizzard can completely cater the game around the vision that they intended in their development versus having to accommodate 3rd party devs which weren't a part of the discussion about the larger vision for the game
NO! Just remove add-ons and make the game playable without them. What's the point of removing them only to add them back in?? NO OTHER MMO has add-ons. They just make their dungeons and raids so you don't need them.
WoW used to as well, until the 1% started gatekeeping the entire game because they could setup and install more add-ons than everyone else.
My biggest problem with wow was it got to be far more of a job than a game.
12:03 thats my exact problem with FF14 raiding too, you get BiS and then the next patch is out for the new tier and crafted gear is better than my BiS....
My beef: Your time spent playing WoW builds toward NOTHING. Read, and you build knowledge. Exercise, and you build towards fitness. Play Wow, and you build toward an i-level reset and an expansion level-squish. Mounts carry over, but that's an insufficient justification of your life-investment. Instead, invest in things that have a meaningful and long-lasting impact.
I dunno why I never watched Asmongold. You have really reasonable takes on video games. Regarding your various takes on MMOs, which I agree with generally even though I'm a "gamer" and souls player and not a MMO player, I'll pull from my boomer experience as an Ultima Online PVP player. BACK IN THE DAY (lol), Ultima Online was fun as a social experience for the non-pvp areas. It didn't have to be super duper difficult. Just work the economy, enjoy the social aspect, engage in group raids to do the harder areas for gold so you could pad your bank account. If you wanted true difficulty, you played the pvp servers. And that shit was actually fucking really difficult. People got absolutely SHIT on. And I think that's fair. PvP should be punishing, and PvE should provide a reasonable amount of difficulty, a LOT of gear, and feed the power fantasy.
6:33 35,000 hours? ok time for sum quick math.
(35,000 ÷ 24 ÷ 365 = 3.995433789954338)
this MF has ben playing wow for 4 YEARS OF HIS LIFE!!!!!
Not bad
Pretty casual for some of the average wow degen lifers / 1 game Andy’s who ONLY play wow …. They don’t even know what another video game is.
@@meanseason3056its not pretty casual in the least, not even considering wow degens, its 4 years of online time, its literally playing 10 hours a day for 10 years straight, and you need to consider asmon doesnt play much wow since at least 4 years ago
I guess its even more
@@mr.gamingz he hardly plays wow anymore
Make just heroic difficulty raids for gear and mythic only for cosmetics and achievements
I sincerely tried playing this game twice, had some friends and family CRAZY about it. The graphics and slow pace always made me just not though.
But I finally did and hot a Rogue to lvl 60 in the Shadows expansion and was able to start doing mythics. I was not ready for it, and EVERYONE kept telling me to do add ons. NO! I dont want them. The game should be played and made in a way without them even if I am new to the game.
Then Dragonflight came out had a Dragonborn lvl 70 and was much more fun, the game felt so much better, but then the add on bs came about and even though I finally had great dps and mechanics, everyone still cried and wanted me to do this bc I would be even better…NO! Like why should I have to to make the crappy UI better? And then it doesnt look good it looks like hell and clutter.
Unpopular opinion here. Add-ons are cheats.
The problem is that people are still playing WoW after 30 years. There's no solution other than the game dies / play something else.
Full reset.
Oooh of ALL creators, I'm so glad to hear YOU saying 'get rid of all addons". Thank you!! It's not that I hate addons, any more than I hate mods for single player games... what I hate with a raging flaming passion is that we shouldn't NEED addons. If we need to fix the game, that's a fucking problem *with the game* !! It should be FIXED, not patched and modded and added on by PLAYERS.
Also, I can't even say how many raids and events I've been excluded from because I didn't have that particular type of damage counter or whatever, that the raid leader wanted.
And don't get me started on damage or healing meters. I'm a bubble healer from way, waaaay back so I fucking despise meters. They are elitist BS that should never be needed or allowed.
My hot take though, is keybinding. I REALLY hate that. I've played alongside players that have such comprehensive keybinds that they literally don't have to press more than one key in 5 or 6 rotations. That's poison and is worse than most addons. 🤷
If you mythic raided in season 1 of Dragonflight then stopped playing you would not even be able to queue for random heroics today if you started playing again. That seems like an obvious problem.
Last good xpac was WOTLK, cata was the tipping point... COULD have been a good xpac, it was just the downfall of WoW every xpac after has been absolute shit. NOW THEY EXPECT US TO PLAY FRIENDLY WITH THE OTHER FACTION??!!! FUCK NA... FOR THE HORDE!
I completely agree with you about the "addons" subject. I'm very picky with games because I think if other studios are making it, is because it is possible to think about it and also, the current technology that we are handling, allows it. What I mean is, it's ok to have addons, but it would be better if blizzard took that as an opportunity to peak on what the community of players WANT for the game to be comfy to be played. I downloaded a bag addon in 2009 for WOTLK why shoud I have to download an addon for my bags in 2024? Isn't it OBVIOUS that we want to manage our F. bags? be able to MOVE that bag to other place where is LESS annoying? I strongly dislike (I have to do it anyways) downloading 3rd party applications in order to SOLVE issues with the game itself, or te be able to see data that SHOULD be shown in the game in the first place. Like raidstats... how hard is to add that to your own profile so you can right click that paladin cuz you need to know if that 3 keys mondongo dude is atleast good with the paladin as it is really hard to truly know since the class almost plays itself.
And what makes everything worse is that you're paying for the game in a monthly basis + you have to buy the expansion, I mean, I would've expect this from a free indie game but from BLIZZARD. And this is a 1 trick company for me, I love starcraft, i dont like diablo but I believe that blizard's biggest success is wow, I may be wrong but is MY opinion and I'm human, let me be. How can BLIZZARD be SO diligent with their favorite son? If we multiply the expansion purchase money, + every monthly payment + micro-transactions inside the game... from the very beginning of this WORLD OF WARCRAFT movement... That ammount, just taking the numbers, could be compared to the real value of π .
And I understand that it's a company, it's a money factory... but damn, please? .
i came back to wow so often... and every time it was:
- install WoW
- search for all the Addons and UI stuff i "needed"
- set up my UI and spells for about an hour
- closing the game because i was annoyed of all that setup stuff...
Removing ALL addons would make this game better.... absolutely
As a Druid Healer during Cataclysm I needed 36 keybinds in PvP,
and there were STILL abilities that I had to macro together.
That's too fucking much.
About the "running back to the boss", I remember progressing 4 horsemen @ Vanilla Naxx. I mean it took ages.
There are ways to fix this and still balance the hardest modes for the 1%. Make the benefit of all the hardest tier loot be PURELY COSMETIC. Make it really cool. Like if you are wearing a piece from the current expansion the character gets a mild glow that is obvious. And if they are wearing a full set they get an obvious glow that they can set the color of. Make it really stand out and showcase the player visually. But the stats are exactly the same as the next lower tier of loot.
Depleting keys is functionally the same as EverQuest 1 *removing* XP per character death (with resurrection spells in game restoring *most* of the lost XP). It was an artifact from D&D table-top rules where resurrection spells would bring characters back to life but at 1 level lower than right before the character’s death.
On the point for the difficulty scaling, this could be hard but it could still be possible. So like say a raid is taking place in an enemy fort, you split the raid up into 3 different sections, which effectively act as normal, heroic, and mythic. Yea it would be hard and probably would result in shorter raids, but overall, I think its a good middle ground for both camps.
Honestly. I have agreed with you every step of the way Asmon. As a gamer, I know exactly what you meant with your words, but never felt any rage towards you. Just the devs. They were trying to put too much into an already awesome system to try and make a game more awesome, along with nerfing stuff that didn't need to be nerfed. Like, who the fuck are you making the patches for? The gamers that you want to play the game, or the beta-testers that are clearly playing steps of content ahead of everybody else? Also, a 40 person raid would definitely be interesting to have again. I can't remember the last time I was in a 40 person raid learning and getting to know everyone that was going to be in the raid. It most certainly builds a level of trust and communalization amongst gamers. In fact, it feels like a lifetime ago when I was playing Vanilla for the first time on dialup. There were friends that I made in-game that I worked on my characters with along with helping them work on theirs. I even made friends with some level 60 people in-case I was getting unreasonably griefed by people.
I agree with you a 100%. I feel like with retail version of the game you just finally get gear to start either pvping or farming what ever it is and guess what NEW GEAR COMES ALONG and you gotta do it all over again. So in short you don’t really get to enjoy the gear you got. Sure i understand there are ppl playing this for hours per day and they might get bored with it but 90% of your players are limited with time.
I play a melee hunter in Classic SoD, and that's nearly impossible to do without a basic weak aura that displays when Flanking Strike and Raptor Strike are off cooldown.
The problem is that Raptor Strike can reset it's own cooldown on each use, and also reset the cooldown of Flanking Strike.
Well, you can either look at the mobs you're fighting, or look at your action bar to know when each ability is off cooldown, which can be any time at random.
Setting up a weak aura that displays a small icon next to my character, in combat, gives me that cooldown info and allows me to continue playing like normal.
I'm not sure if this would ever be a default UI option.
In retail they light up homie
Yep the flanking strike weak aura and for mages the hot streak weak aura are the only ones that I actually need.
i knew raiding had an issue when i got to stone legion generals in CN on mythic and as a guild we went "were not gonna butt our heads against this wall, were going to wait for the nerfs before continuing prog" like what?
The biggest deathblow to raiding was the advent of LFR. It created a community of people who decided they didn't need guilds anymore, and they didn't need to commit to a group of other people. M+ is far more popular because it only requires 5 people, 45 minutes, and doesn't require a commitment beyond that. It's WAY easier to organize than a raid, and doesn't require ANY of the organizational or administrative requirements that running a successful guild does. And, yes, the reward is actually better too.
It's simply not fun. It's a gruelling experience
MoP is an absolute low point for class design. I'd say Cata, WoD, Shadowlands and Dragonflight are the peak class design. If I had to rank expansions by class design: Dragonflight > Cata = Shadowlands > WoD > Legion = BFA = WotLK > TBC > MoP > Vanilla.
I think a way to help with button bloat would be this. 2 generator spells, 2 spender spells, 1 ult spell, and 1 or 2 aoe spells. You can have as many spells as you want but that doesn't mean they should be in the main core rotation to play any class. Plus they can add combos to spells to make them feel better. For demo warlock, why not make it to were grimore of sacrifice turns you into a demon after so many of your demons dying. 6 or 7 spells for class and make them satisfying to press. There are so many cool things you can do. Unholy mini game after hitting a target use the parts you hit off to make a undead.
GW2 and thats why I play it over wow.