Eminence/Alessandro G10-SC59 Speaker Install and Sound Check
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- In this video, I show you how to install guitar amp speakers and check to be sure they are connected correctly. At the end, I do a quick sound check comparing the original Jensen P10R's that have been reconed and the new Alessandro G10-SC59's.
I do miss a little of the sparkle of the old reconed Jensens. The Alessandros have a little more mid and bass to my ears. They seem to be a little louder but that could be because they are all working together as one speaker and maybe the recones don't match up quite as well. Speaker sensitivity is definitely a factor and I am not sure what that measurement is for the Jensens. The Alessandros are 97 dB. The higher the measurement, the louder the speaker.
Soundcheck - 17:56
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Jensens sound so much better. Much warmer with originals. Maybe after break in period they’ll improve.
The Jensens sparkle so much better!
Those Jensen’s sound great!
@14:26 flux it's where it's at :}. and enough heat reserve in the soldering tip. by the way it looked, the soldering might go easier if one tins the speaker terminals..
great sound and playing, thanks for sharing
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for whoever is interested:
although it doesn;t look like a lot of metal, those terminals are considerably bigger (thermal mass) than the electronic components meant to be soldered by a regular soldering gun/station. the best approach is to have as hot and as heavy of a soldering tip as one can, heat up the terminals fast (3-4 sec) then add solder that was dipped in flux starting at the contact point between the tip and the terminal.
some solder on the tip of the iron helps transfer heat MUCH faster to the working piece as it maximize the contact surface. if it takes longer than 5 sec, the iron tip is not hot enough or too small of a thermal mass..
the danger of a too cold/small of a tip is counterintuitively the over-heating of the terminal. when it takes too long, the metal surface oxidizes (the flux is burned and can't do its job), it doesn't take solder, and we apply heat to the point where the braided wire behind the terminal sucks up solder and loses it's flexibility to a degree.
*speakers are very inefficient motors. most speakers transform less of 1% of the electric energy into acoustic energy. that connection has no acoustic impact, as long as the electrical contact is proper. the contact the jack makes in the amp is way "weaker" than any speaker terminal contact... also, the electrical signal travels thru a super long and super thin wire, sometimes 40AWG and thinner, the speaker's coil.
Great tip. Since this video, I did purchase a very nice, heavy duty Weller soldering iron for soldering ground wires to potentiometers very quickly without damaging them. I bet it works great on these terminals.
@@millstap that's nice, nothing beats the proper soldering iron for the proper job. :}
yeah, soldering the ground on pots is when the abuse takes place. i've seen pots covered in solder. it's very likely that too much heat shortens their life..
tinning and flux helps a lot.
also, one can cool the pot w/ a damp paper towel/sponge, etc, after soldering.. it only takes a few seconds.
3 years later a GA10 sc64 lives in a Champ and played at 7 and above every night!
they sound just like the jensens. they knocked it out of the park.
good comparison video. Helps me decide on whether not to recone orgignals or buy new. Would like to hear these new speakers after they have broken in.
There is definitely a break-in period. They are starting to sound a little better. I think it may be another couple of weeks. I'm torn right now between these and the 1028P's. They look identical to me except the voice coil cap.
@@millstap When Warehouse Speakers was a smaller company they offered a service where they break in your speakers. They had a simple hookup that played a tone though the amps constantly and soundless, but in 24 hours your speaker is ready to go. They charged $20. I would pay $20 extra to have Eminence to do the same, these speakers are really good and recommended by the top guys if you want that great American sound.
Those old Jensens have an amazing top end, crisp chime to them. The Alessandro's are a bit darker but also smoother. But, I'm listening through headphones on an iPhone, not in the room.lol. Are you happy with the new speakers or do they need some time to be broken in? Happy New year and God bless!
They definitely need some break-in. I think they are a little brighter after a few days. We'll see.
jensens were very bright it seems, and the new ones sound very nice
A little trick I heard about Hook a radio up to it and let it run while your at work or whatnot Never tried it but some spks are hard to break like my Marshall JTM cab w alnico 25 watters
I wanted to like the eminence more, but those old jensens are magical
Get yourself a 40+ watt soldering iron with a chisel tip to properly solder those speaker connections. The Iron in your video is great for PCB stuff but not for big connections like your speakers.
I’ve got one now but haven’t had to mess with speakers in years. I also use it on the ground on the volume pot of the Strat and chassis grounds.
Phase doesn't matter as long as all 3 speakers are in phase, or in other words, all 3 speakers do the same thing when connected to the battery.
Yep. People forget that audio is an alternating current sine wave, so there really isn’t a polarity to the sound. Just make sure they’re all in phase and let’er rip.
They sound great to me in person, and shouldn’t need an extensive break-in period. A few hours of normal volume use should do it.
Felt dust caps make for a better full range speaker imo. Domed caps sound very spikey and unpleasant to me, unless they’re behind a dense grille cloth.
Thanks Matt. They are definitely good speakers but I am torn between them and the 1028P's. Have you heard of those VOR speakers?
millstap Yes, I have heard of the VOR speakers but I haven’t personally heard them. They look like they use the same frame and magnet as the Jensen reissue speaker with a different motor, cone and dust cap. The 25 watt rating gives it away as a nomex or kapton former though. But hey, they’re cheap enough to try out and it’ll probably be just as good as a Jensen reissue, which aren’t the worst speaker in the world.
As long as they are going in the same direction is important. A good question for the Dr. Dr Z Q&A.
Very important for sure. I played this amp for several months, maybe even years before I realized that one was going to opposite direction. I only discovered it once I got one of them recones and checked them all again. It throws the sound off to the side like budget surround sound, lol.
The "Hafler" process is similar, a way of getting a 3D sound effect in Cinemas in the 40s by wiring a 3rd speaker to the 2 + or - terminals of the other 2( can't remember exacly) . Early form of surround sound.
Sir, how do you record audio? what gear do you use? You are one of the only guys out there getting a real vintage tone on YT. Cheers and happy new year
Leo, sorry I never responded. I use a cheap Flip UltraHD camera but it seems to capture the room sound fairly well.
Even reckoned, the Jensens sound brittle. Alessandro all the way!
Time will tell, but I dont think you’ll ever get them to sound, or look like the originals. More testing with originals, cleaned, and installed correctly might be in order?
I'm glad the originals even with the mix of recones still sound good so they are always there ready to go. I may eventually try these in a Super Reverb but that will be a long way off. I have a couple of 1028K's in one of them I think so maybe I will put two of these in there too.
Like and prefer old jensen, alessendro sound good much clarty than jensen.
Check out Gerald Weber’s books, he mentions some early Jensens working in the opposite sense.
Yes, Gerald is where I first learned about the Bassman amp. Actually some amps go in reverse so you have to wire the speakers the opposite way. It is also important when you play two or more amps together at the same time. They ALL need to be working together. That is why they put "phase" switches on amp switchers like my Framptone 3 Banger.
@@millstap I found the passage... "The Fender 5F6A electronics plays backwards. That is, the electrical signal comes out 180 degrees out of phase or upside down from the input signal. (bit about the JTM45...) In the case of the Bassman, the Jensen speakers also play backwards. That is if you observe the marked polarity, the speaker cone moves backwards - just the reverse of standard speaker polarity. The net result is that the amp reverses the signal and sends it to a speaker that reverses the signal again, righting it, putting the output back in phase with the input." So although your Jensens moved backwards on your first test that is "Correct" in the loose sense of the word, at least is original. It might be fun to see if the Allesssandros sound different if you flip the phase back to as it was from the factory. Love your videos and the channel, keep it up!
crap sorry! Remembered the bandmaster has an extra gain stage as it uses a different phase inverter. Ignore me!
Will have to see after they break in
Yes, I should be able to do another comparison in about a month to see if we notice any difference.
When they are broken in, Allesandro's will be a different speaker. Just like any reconed Jensen would be.
Prefer the Jensen. What amp tubes are you using?
Actually, I'm starting to warm up to the Alessandros. I will use them until I get bored and want the originals back in. They good thing about this expensive experiment was that my Jensens were in good shape and I thought they were starting to crap out or something. I have all NOS tubes. That is all I have ever used. I'm not exactly sure about the preamp tubes (I'm too lazy to pull them out to look) but they are probably a GE 5 Star 6072 and then either RCA, Mullard, or Amperex 12AX7's. Power tubes are vintage Tung-Sol 5881's. Actually, I do remember seeing a 7025 in V2 that was pulled from one of the vintage amps when I got it. I really need to check them on my tube tester. I have not checked them in years but they are sounding pretty good still.
millstap either speaker sounds good but I really like the sparkle coming out from Jensen. Your reverb sounds great too. Very surfy sounding. Id like to change the the reverb driver tube in my 65 drri with NOS. I hope I can get what tubes you are using in your reverb driver. Thanks sir
@@heinzb74 I've got all NOS tubes in my reverb unit. I found it is very hard to duplicate that surf sound with a built-in Super Reverb reverb. It's hard to beat those old Fender reverb units. That is what Dick Dale and all the surf guys used. They can be a real pain on a flexible stage though. They will bang around and drive you nuts. That is why Dick Dale always hung his up in the air from the rafters.
The new speaker cone had a much greater response to the polarity check.
I notice that too and it bugs me because when I see a speaker barely move with the battery check, it makes me feel like the cone is too stiff or something else isn't exactly right.
This the amp that Pete Townsend played quadraphenia and who's Next. It was given to him by Neal Young.
Yes, I always wanted the Gretsch that Pete used too. It would sound identical.
@@millstap Have you ever looked for a 59 or tweed bandmaster? They are next to impossible to find and when they list them on Reverb they start at around $5000 for it. It far exceeds the price of a 5E3 Deluxe which is available.
Is that amp yours? Have you had it for a long time or did you have to pay huge money for it?
@@tjnugent62 I didn't know how rare they were when I bought it back in 2009. I did pay a lot of money for it because it was completely original except for reconed original P10R's. I've seen them for $15,000 if you can ever find one.
No. It was given to him by joe Walsh.
Curious? Where has it been said or proven that soldered connections are more solid than spade clips when changing or trying new speakers.You may just end up putting the jensens back in correct? I just installed 4 new speakers in a 1965 super reverb with brass clips and results were barnburning,are you saying that if I had soldered like the original cts were I would get even better results? Thanks
I am not sure when I will put the originals back in. I still have to break these in. They are sounding pretty good. It really depends on your personal tone tastes. Some people don't like the sparkly highs that Jensens can have. I like it. I experienced the solder vs. clip-on myself but then I was not using high quality spade connectors. Most of the old Fenders were always soldered. If you have great results, I wouldn't mess with it because it is a pain to do but personally, I like the fact that there is no possibility of any vibration at the connection and it is the best connection. Spades are definitely more convenient especially if you are swapping out speakers for a comparison or something. I just love solder. I just this minute finished switching the lead wires back to positive to negative and visa versa on this amp (the way it was originally wired) because I am pretty sure the phase of the amp is reverse like the Bassman is. It doesn't make a whole bunch of difference but I like it like the original. That is the test I did using clip-ons. I was trying to prove that it did not make any difference in sound but when I finally solder the wires, they sounded much better. I would probably at least solder the wire to the spade connector instead of crimping it.
@@millstap Thanks for the reply,They sound fine and in time better no doubt.You have me thinking now bout pulling the clips and soldering the replacements in hard.
@@richardcowles8607 What speakers did you put in the Super Reverb?
@@millstap Fat Jimmys rated at 25 ceramic. In other words wgs. I will rehab the original.
On my laptop speakers, the new speakers sound good and a bit aggressive compared to the jensens, as is, now right out of the box. SO they should sound even better as they break in but definitely a difference between them and the jensens and I think it adds to the character of the amp as the end result. It will be interesting to see what the bandmaster sounds like when paired with the bassman's again after all this work. I didn't realize that when you lived in California you were in one of those surf bands & mastering the art....and hanging 10 & riding the curl. So what's your opinion since you are used to the amp with the Jensen's and you were there live in the room for the reveal ???
Good old surf music. Everyone liked that when we played live plus no one that I know has that vintage reverb sound around here. I'm happy with them. I will do another comparison in a few weeks to see if we can hear a difference. I will put these two clips together like they are now and add a third one with the broken-in speakers. That should be interesting.
WAIT.....are you leading in for.....Introducing a new guitar rig ????? Breaking out the Dick Dale Blonde Showman & JBL Cabinet ???? Putting the eye hook in the ceiling so you can suspend the reverb unit......
Hello Millstap, may I ask some things?
First, is this 3 speakers configuration the original one? because i know Bassmans are supposed to be a 4x10" amp.
Second, how thick is that baffle you are using, and or the original ones. Is that plywood rigth?
I ask because I am doing an replica for myself, and heard that plywood is the way to go for baffles. Just to finish, do you recomend the original P10r, the P10q, or the Eminence Legends 1028 for a 4x10" configuration? Hardly will I find those Alessandro here in Brazil... thanks anyway..
Leonardo H. Tweed bandmasters are 3x10
In this video he is not using a Fender Bassman, but instead a Fender Bandmaster 3 x10. Also if you can buy Eminence speakers in Brazil, for sure you can get those Alessandro's (because Eminence makes them), just ask Eminence distributors in Brazil.
facebook.com/eminencebr/
www.eminence.com/dealer-locator/international/?country=Brazil
I can't remember the thickness. I think it is a standard 1/4". Very thin. It is best to have that thickness because they resonate better. That is all original 1959 Bandmaster. It is a very collectible Fender amp. I like the P10R's better than the Q's. See if you can find the Alessandros in Brazil. They will be great or maybe try the less expensive VOR speakers which I hear are good and they were shipped to France to maybe Brazil too.
Thank You for the information guys, I will post some videos as my bassman project evolves, the cabinet is almost done. Now I have to find the speakers and decide if it will be a Combo or a Head+Cabinet setup..
Jensens have more treblely chime but as those emminence break in??
They broke in nicely. It takes several months in my opinion. I’ve been playing them every night for a while now.
Yeah they sound good but need some hours to season a bit like all new spks I have a JTM re ish cab that took forever to break in
I agree. Now that the holidays are over, I can torture these for a few weeks. I will try to do another comparison in a few weeks or so.
The SRV lick sounding good. What Roto vibe are you using?
Actually, there was no vibe at all. I think that was clean amp at first and then I kicked in the OCD in the middle. I prefer the clean amp sound. Oh, I see. Yes, on the Hendrix song Jungle. That is the Sabbadius 68 Funky-Vibe. I will be getting a new updated version soon to demo.
How do they sound broken in? ;)
They sound great. I'm torn between the custom order 1028P's and these. They seem to be the same speaker with different voice coil caps but I play the 1028P's more since they are in the Bassman. They definitely have a little more bass and midrange than the original Jensens although all of my Jensens are reconed.
What is the song at 22:30???? Someone help!
That is SRV's version of Testify which he covered the Isley Brothers 1964 version when Jimi Hendrix played with them.
millstap thank you! Love your channel
Which Jensens are those?
1959 P10R’s.
After a couple of weeks, how are you liking the new speakers? The offer still stands if you don’t like them, I need to order 4 of them for another Bassman clone.
My secret sauce is really just copying your 1960 and using linear 1M pots. I can’t thank you enough for those videos you did a while back.
Hey Matt, they are sounding fine so I will keep them. I need to do another comparison using the first comparison and adding a third "broken-in" clip. Hopefully I do that within the next week. I did my cap job today and it was a wash. Well, now I know I will never change the caps again until maybe 20 years unless I his the road and play live every day. I'm glad your clones are sounding good. My amps sound like new amps now so there really is no good reason to buy an old one unless you just want to spend a lot of time and money updating it which will end up sounding like a new Bassman. If you like the old, leaky cap tone (which is actually pretty cool at times), then buy an old amp.
millstap I just ordered a set of those VOR 10’s. They’re the only speakers I haven’t heard in person yet. They look very similar to the Weber 10A125 on paper, I don’t imagine they’ll be awful. I hope they’re at least as good as the Weber, but at a much reduced price. I’ll report back when I get the amp built.
@@matthewf1979 Good deal. I'm curious. You can't beat the price.
@@matthewf1979 I asked the guy in France if he still like them and he said yes although I think he has a combo of the VOR's and Jupiters in his amp. Those Jupiters are $239.
I forgot to say that your comment about the 1M linear pots is interesting. I've been trying to tell my Texas amp builder that they sound different but he refused to listen. None of the amps had Audio pots (maybe up until a certain date) so I'm wondering why they ever put them on the schematic.
They’re a bit stiff. Definitely need some break in time.
Definitely.
Jensen sound way better...theyre more open n clear. The alessandros are muddy in the mids n rather stiff
People must be listening on their cellphone speaker. The Jensen's sound horrible! They're very harsh and have too much of the mids scooped out. Get yourself a good set of headphones or studio monitors and relisten.
Agreed, the Jensen's sound too trebley and harsh,. The Strat played with the bridge pickup, sounds a lot more pleasant with the Alessandro's.
love the way the jensen's sound
You should’ve taken some sandpaper and lightly sanded the cones save you about 2000 hours of break in town that’s what I would’ve done with the recalls they keep messing with all this equipment pulling tubes of stuff to get more game I don’t know why you just don’t buy a Marshall if you want to sound like Jimi Hendrix
THE ALESSANDRO SPEAKERS
PRODUCE, THEN OPEN UP
I LIKE HOW THEY SOUND MORE THAN THE JENSEN
I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THEM
DEFINITELY LOOKING INTO IT
THANKS FOR THIS POST ✔️
CARLOS GUITARLOS 90942
Thank you Carlos. They are a new speaker from Eminence, January of 2019.