R&D, marketing, warehouse costs, employee manufacturing costs, rent, power, water. People forget all the aspects of a business. Plus high end audio is a niche market
Please Paul find a way to make the cabinets in the USA & I will buy these speakers!! Love the design and engineering!!! Will live with my American Made Maggies for now until you figure out how to make these in the USA… 🤪
Speaker cabinets. A labor of Love and beauty. There are some really beautiful speaker cabinets out there in the Wild I have seen over the decades. If you have the necessary tools you can make your own WOW !! Speaker cabinets.
Answer is a resounding yes. Larger loud speakers, proper amplifiers, of course good source material will allow you the best sound and also protect hearing. Distortion is the enemy. Just because you have so much power on tap does not mean you abuse. In fact opposite.
large speaker and keeping the quality scales the price way to fast. but if you want a single set of stereo speaker it has to be like that. you can improve the problem with adding subwoofers and having smaller speakers. I say that you can fix the problem entirely with 4 channel dsp and parametric eq. now you can have some small 2 way speaker and cross them over at 180hz then have dual stereo passive subwoofers which has no delay and you get access to delay to your mains if needed. This way you get to place main speakers where they sound the best and plass the bass where they sound best with perfect integration. and it looks quite small, no huge boxes.
That’s what I’ve done. Small subs in the corners behind small speakers crossed over at 95hz. To get the best possible listening position, I move the chair, which is much easier. As you say, DSP delay does not matter in 2 channel. Not perfect and probably not the same as large speakers, but everybody else can use the room and did not have to break the bank.
@@sudd3660 I have two huge dips. One at 40hz and one at 95hz. I handle the 40hz by the listening position. The 95hz is handled by putting the crossover actually around it (they don't sum up). I've tried and speakers and subs alone can't cover the region. Other ways would be to move the subs and break the symmetry (family) or break it by delaying the other sub by few ms. I don't know why I've never had success with the delay tactic. Might be because of a staircase (hole in the floor).
@@bobnot24 in my room i do not have any dips, having passive subwoofers let me cross over at any point. and sure some things a room does that can not be fixed unless you you build huge bass traps. if you have powered subwoofers it is the main speakers you usually delay, but a phase flip (180 degrees) can also help. i got all sealed system, makes things a lot easier, plugging ports can also help.
Hello Paul, one of the things I have noticed is how so many sound enthusiasts will pick a speaker that does not suit the room they put it in . If not to begin a discussion that goes nowhere there is nothing like picking beautifully designed equipment to suit your end goal . How do you feel about my thoughts .? Your products are rather special I must say .
They’re you have it conclusive evidence that Paul says you need a subwoofer and you don’t need a subwoofer. That’s why many of us have a Hi-Fi and then we usually also have an audiohiliac approved system and then a PS Audio approved setup just so we can all have an extra happy wife happy life and or the other way around depending on your arrangement
IMHO there is no replacement for displacement. Big speakers better reproduce the scale of real music. You will never reproduce the scale of a grand piano or a kettle drum but you come a lot closer with some space. Sure it's not possible in most home settings, but if you have the space it is the way to go. Cost is a different topic. High end audio is a tiny market. Small production means a need for large gross margin. It is not purely the cost of materials. My bet is most high end speaker companies need a 90% margin to stay in business. It took years for PS Audio to finish their design. It will take a lot of profit on each speaker to ever pay that back. MDF is CNC cut, so it is not an artisan wood working job. It is just very small volume.
The cabinets are a fraction of the price when produced in China:-) look at Polk Audios reference Tower speakers. Paul, why are your speakers five times the price?
My Carver ' Silver edt is boxess .. it dropped down to 16hz at 76db at 80db..at 24hz 85db My other speaker the SM 155 with 15" woofer 78db that s Infinity model..most speaker are lucky to reach 72db at 24hz, On the Bose 901 they walk in 76db with active EQ.. raise your speaking about about 1" to 4".. you get better Bass
Paul should be wearing a hard hat in the warehouse! ... An Italian man was recently killed, when a warehouse shelf collapsed, and he was buried under an avalanche of Italian Cheese! ... We wouldn't want Paul to be buried under an avalanche of Hi-Fi gear!
I think you missed a trick really and would have made your cost cheaper as well. If you separated the mid-range and tweeter just make them in a separate box for all the models the same, that can be a standard box that fits any model. I don't see why the box should be that expensive to make? It's not. labor's cheap in China and standard HDF is not a lot because it's widely used in the building industry and you're buying in bulk. I'd say about 15 to $20 a sheet. And would have been cheaper if you made the 10 the same size using the same box as the 20. Don't see why you need to make it smaller for only if you want it to look different in customers eyes, and justifying the price hike, How much does it really cost to make a box complete and finished about $30 considering the labour in China and materials and that's probably on the high side. Looks about half a sheet of 8x6 to make the medium to small, it's about $40 a sheet at Western prices retail. I can't believe you can't find a company in America who manufactures kitchens or bathroom units to manufacture the speakers for you, at least you don't have the shipping costs. You've got room there, I don't know why you can't manufacture in-house? It doesn't need to be that big of a place, you don't have to have a CNC machine or anything like that, all you need is a router table and jig setup with preset jigs guides. You don't need to be skilled to cut them out either. And can be cut vertically to save on space. And if storage is an issue you can use old shipping containers outside to store the material. A skilled cabinet maker and two or three apprentices shouldn't cost you more than $230 to $260 labour costs per day. You don't need to spray it either it's time consuming and need a booth like a container, and doesn't offer a great finish then doing it like coach work, plus actually veneering would be a quicker process with real wood look better considering the price or plastic vinyl what can look just like sprayed finish. You can powder coat wood as well but you have to cover it in a electric charge chemical first. I don't see much outlay costs to set up a shop, really I mean a router table jigs can be made by a competent carpenter, same for a table saw vertical or horizontal. The biggest outlay would be in the extraction dust extraction system but shouldn't be too expensive. Stop manufacturing in China reduce your profit margin and you'll be ok. A 600% profit margin or even 400 or 300 profit margin is not acceptable. There Is something wrong in the way you're running a business if you need to have such a high profit margin. I would set up business AI system to look at your expenses how the business is run, could save you a lot of money
"There Is something wrong in the way you're running a business if you need to have such a high profit margin. " - Paul has run a successful high-end business for decades. You? Yeah, that's right, you have not.
You mean there are still audiophiles naive enough to actually think that equipment prices are based on how much it costs to make? The prices are based more on the perceived merit; as judged by the company making the equipment. If they think their speakers beat other speakers that cost $25,000; their speakers are going to get priced at $35,000.
@@sidesup8286 you don't need the hi fi equation on how you're selling your product, its very dangerous for the hobby as we see decade after decade of decline in high quality audio systems out pricing themselves out of the market, is what I mean.
@@TheDanEdwards well you're wrong actually because Paul had to sell the business because he wasn't making money and investors bought it and turned it around he's not making the decision on that front anymore.
Does being first involve anything like split second timing or split second wasting of time? C'mon already, somebody give this man some kind of trophy or prize. Remember the REAL MEN OF GENIUS Commercials? Here's to you Mr. First Commenter. The early bird gets the worm, some get the last word, but it's you that gets the first word. While others see No Comments Yet, you see opportunity; the opportunity to make known your existence, even if you don't have any opinions to offer....So raise a cold one...and here's to you Mr. Quick Responder, Mr. Fast Fingers who imagines there is someone out there competing with you; when just about everyone's asleep. I bet you're the first one to cross the street, when others are standing alongside waiting for a leader to make that first move off the sidewalk. Here's to you Mr. First Commenter. If we had a heart attack, we'd be confident knowing you are on duty..., Mr. First Responder, this Bee is for you.
R&D, marketing, warehouse costs, employee manufacturing costs, rent, power, water. People forget all the aspects of a business. Plus high end audio is a niche market
Please Paul find a way to make the cabinets in the USA & I will buy these speakers!! Love the design and engineering!!! Will live with my American Made Maggies for now until you figure out how to make these in the USA… 🤪
That's will cost the double for a US product. Will you able to buy it. Maggie can keep the price low because there's practically no cabinets.
Speaker cabinets.
A labor of Love and beauty.
There are some really beautiful speaker cabinets out there in the Wild I have seen over the decades.
If you have the necessary tools you can make your own WOW !! Speaker cabinets.
Mona Lisa finish: the Mona Lisa is famous for having few if any visible brush strokes
Love to see the inside of that box.
Answer is a resounding yes. Larger loud speakers, proper amplifiers, of course good source material will allow you the best sound and also protect hearing. Distortion is the enemy. Just because you have so much power on tap does not mean you abuse. In fact opposite.
large speaker and keeping the quality scales the price way to fast.
but if you want a single set of stereo speaker it has to be like that.
you can improve the problem with adding subwoofers and having smaller speakers.
I say that you can fix the problem entirely with 4 channel dsp and parametric eq.
now you can have some small 2 way speaker and cross them over at 180hz then have dual stereo passive subwoofers which has no delay and you get access to delay to your mains if needed.
This way you get to place main speakers where they sound the best and plass the bass where they sound best with perfect integration. and it looks quite small, no huge boxes.
That’s what I’ve done. Small subs in the corners behind small speakers crossed over at 95hz. To get the best possible listening position, I move the chair, which is much easier. As you say, DSP delay does not matter in 2 channel. Not perfect and probably not the same as large speakers, but everybody else can use the room and did not have to break the bank.
@@bobnot24
when you cross over higher than 120hz you start to get that large speaker feel, need stereo subwoofers for that.
@@sudd3660 I have two huge dips. One at 40hz and one at 95hz. I handle the 40hz by the listening position. The 95hz is handled by putting the crossover actually around it (they don't sum up). I've tried and speakers and subs alone can't cover the region. Other ways would be to move the subs and break the symmetry (family) or break it by delaying the other sub by few ms. I don't know why I've never had success with the delay tactic. Might be because of a staircase (hole in the floor).
@@bobnot24 in my room i do not have any dips, having passive subwoofers let me cross over at any point.
and sure some things a room does that can not be fixed unless you you build huge bass traps.
if you have powered subwoofers it is the main speakers you usually delay, but a phase flip (180 degrees) can also help.
i got all sealed system, makes things a lot easier, plugging ports can also help.
Hello Paul, one of the things I have noticed is how so many sound enthusiasts will pick a speaker that does not suit the room they put it in . If not to begin a discussion that goes nowhere there is nothing like picking beautifully designed equipment to suit your end goal . How do you feel about my thoughts .? Your products are rather special I must say .
There is always got to be a better way.
That’s life..👍😎
ua-cam.com/video/0hysswDpoGM/v-deo.html
Yeah my kitchen cabinets were very expensive and they don't make a sound. They look nice, but but just store kitchen ware in style .🤷♂️
They’re you have it conclusive evidence that Paul says you need a subwoofer and you don’t need a subwoofer. That’s why many of us have a Hi-Fi and then we usually also have an audiohiliac approved system and then a PS Audio approved setup just so we can all have an extra happy wife happy life and or the other way around depending on your arrangement
There is a name for it.
It’s call “Salt” 😀👍
they are you have it
IMHO there is no replacement for displacement. Big speakers better reproduce the scale of real music. You will never reproduce the scale of a grand piano or a kettle drum but you come a lot closer with some space. Sure it's not possible in most home settings, but if you have the space it is the way to go.
Cost is a different topic. High end audio is a tiny market. Small production means a need for large gross margin. It is not purely the cost of materials. My bet is most high end speaker companies need a 90% margin to stay in business. It took years for PS Audio to finish their design. It will take a lot of profit on each speaker to ever pay that back. MDF is CNC cut, so it is not an artisan wood working job. It is just very small volume.
The bigger and fatter they are, the more air they push out into the room. My engineer friend Ernie weighs 350 pounds. He should know
Am a bit surprised that even in this category of speakers the drivers are less expensive than the box.
Often the case. Skimping on crossovers is a big money saver. Hey? Have to please the wife too.
Yes
The cabinets are a fraction of the price when produced in China:-) look at Polk Audios reference Tower speakers. Paul, why are your speakers five times the price?
My Carver ' Silver edt is boxess .. it dropped down to 16hz at 76db at 80db..at 24hz 85db
My other speaker the SM 155 with 15" woofer 78db that s Infinity model..most speaker are lucky to reach 72db at 24hz, On the Bose 901 they walk in 76db with active EQ.. raise your speaking about about 1" to 4".. you get better Bass
Paul should be wearing a hard hat in the warehouse! ... An Italian man was recently killed, when a warehouse shelf collapsed, and he was buried under an avalanche of Italian Cheese! ... We wouldn't want Paul to be buried under an avalanche of Hi-Fi gear!
😂
Why spend so much money on the FINISH!??
My girlfriend thinks so....
You’re really starting to flag almost moronic questions lol
That speaker would sound better, if you lowered it to the floor.
No if you are using conventional
Bigger is far better............................................ for the retailer !
Less distortion, better dynamic range, amplifier doesnt have to work as hard, so dont need massive monoblocks to run big speakers.
Unless you ship for free
I think you missed a trick really and would have made your cost cheaper as well.
If you separated the mid-range and tweeter just make them in a separate box for all the models the same, that can be a standard box that fits any model. I don't see why the box should be that expensive to make? It's not. labor's cheap in China and standard HDF is not a lot because it's widely used in the building industry and you're buying in bulk. I'd say about 15 to $20 a sheet. And would have been cheaper if you made the 10 the same size using the same box as the 20. Don't see why you need to make it smaller for only if you want it to look different in customers eyes, and justifying the price hike, How much does it really cost to make a box complete and finished about $30 considering the labour in China and materials and that's probably on the high side. Looks about half a sheet of 8x6 to make the medium to small, it's about $40 a sheet at Western prices retail. I can't believe you can't find a company in America who manufactures kitchens or bathroom units to manufacture the speakers for you, at least you don't have the shipping costs.
You've got room there, I don't know why you can't manufacture in-house? It doesn't need to be that big of a place, you don't have to have a CNC machine or anything like that, all you need is a router table and jig setup with preset jigs guides. You don't need to be skilled to cut them out either. And can be cut vertically to save on space.
And if storage is an issue you can use old shipping containers outside to store the material. A skilled cabinet maker and two or three apprentices shouldn't cost you more than $230 to $260 labour costs per day. You don't need to spray it either it's time consuming and need a booth like a container, and doesn't offer a great finish then doing it like coach work, plus actually veneering would be a quicker process with real wood look better considering the price or plastic vinyl what can look just like sprayed finish. You can powder coat wood as well but you have to cover it in a electric charge chemical first.
I don't see much outlay costs to set up a shop, really I mean a router table jigs can be made by a competent carpenter, same for a table saw vertical or horizontal. The biggest outlay would be in the extraction dust extraction system but shouldn't be too expensive.
Stop manufacturing in China reduce your profit margin and you'll be ok.
A 600% profit margin or even 400 or 300 profit margin is not acceptable.
There Is something wrong in the way you're running a business if you need to have such a high profit margin. I would set up business AI system to look at your expenses how the business is run, could save you a lot of money
"There Is something wrong in the way you're running a business if you need to have such a high profit margin. " - Paul has run a successful high-end business for decades. You? Yeah, that's right, you have not.
You mean there are still audiophiles naive enough to actually think that equipment prices are based on how much it costs to make?
The prices are based more on the perceived merit; as judged by the company making the equipment. If they think their speakers beat other speakers that cost $25,000; their speakers are going to get priced at $35,000.
Let Paul run his business the way he wants, successful and for decades, I dont agree with everything he does neither, but I do support him a 100%
@@sidesup8286 you don't need the hi fi equation on how you're selling your product, its very dangerous for the hobby as we see decade after decade of decline in high quality audio systems out pricing themselves out of the market, is what I mean.
@@TheDanEdwards well you're wrong actually because Paul had to sell the business because he wasn't making money and investors bought it and turned it around he's not making the decision on that front anymore.
1 st :-)
Ok 🙄, plus upvoting yourself
@@tacofortgens3471 Supporting this channel by leaving a comment.
Does being first involve anything like split second timing or split second wasting of time? C'mon already, somebody give this man some kind of trophy or prize. Remember the REAL MEN OF GENIUS Commercials?
Here's to you Mr. First Commenter. The early bird gets the worm, some get the last word, but it's you that gets the first word. While others see No Comments Yet, you see opportunity; the opportunity to make known your existence, even if you don't have any opinions to offer....So raise a cold one...and here's to you Mr. Quick Responder, Mr. Fast Fingers who imagines there is someone out there competing with you; when just about everyone's asleep. I bet you're the first one to cross the street, when others are standing alongside waiting for a leader to make that first move off the sidewalk. Here's to you Mr. First Commenter. If we had a heart attack, we'd be confident knowing you are on duty..., Mr. First Responder, this Bee is for you.