Surface Grinding Thin Parts on a Jones and Shipman 540 Surface Grinder (Machine Vice/Vise Jaws)
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Surface Grinding Thin Parts on a Jones and Shipman 540 Surface Grinder has proven to be quite a challenge for a Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinding beginner such as myself. In this video I take you through the trials and tribulations of surface grinding a thin milling machine vice/vise jaw on a Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinder. This is my first proper attempt at surface grinding with a machine I was given and have only just gotten up and running. The Jones and Shipman 540 is regarded as a very good machine and should be able to produce work to a higher standard than I have been able to. I'll show you some of the problems I ran into, including the effects of the magnetic chuck deforming the milling machine vice/vise jaw that I was trying to get flat. It is still very early days in my venture into surface grinding with the Jones and Shipman 540 so i'm sure there will be lots more videos to come as my skills improve and I get to grips with surface grinding in general and the quirks of my Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinder.
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Handmade Extreme -
Disclaimer: This video is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is in no way meant to be a set of instructions and therefore no attempt should be made by any party to recreate what has been seen in this video. Any attempt to do so is done completely at your own risk.
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What's remarkable is that you stuck at it and learned so much along the way. Great video.
You got there in the end, I found it’s a big learning curve with a surface grinder, if it were me and I’m no expert, I would take the mag chuck of and clean and stone both surfaces, you could also grind the base flat the chuck sits on, also clamp the chuck on upside down and skim that as well, clean and stone again then bolt it back on, draw sharpie lines across the chuck, both directions, I used a 46 grit J to do mine, dress the wheel measure the thickness of a piece of paper and put it under the wheel when it snatches the paper out you know have far you’ve left to go down, turn on the chuck bring the wheel down till you see the faintest spark, move to the back and add a couple of tenths, coolant on and let it do it’s thing, check your marks and repeat till all the lines have gone, dress the wheel regularly, when ready for the last past put only a couple on tenths on let it come all the way across and the don’t send it back grinding, move it back to the start don’t add any more cut just let it spark out if it needs it twice then do it, it takes a long time to do but it’s worth it to know your chucks flat then any issues you have you know it’s not the chuck, that’s what I do anyway, hope it helps.
Alan.
Hi Alan, Great to hear from you again. Thanks for taking the time to write that out. Absolutely fantastic advice!!!
i'm planning on doing a few more jobs with the machine as is to get a bit more confidence and experience. However they will be more cosmetic than dimensional. I''ll then do the chuck. i'm reluctant to jump straight to it as you rightly say "it's a big learning curve".
The chuck looks like it's been done a few times over it's life so I want to make sure I get it right first time and don't do more harm than good.
Thanks again for watching and i'm glad you are enjoying the videos. 👍👍
“It’s not too bad to be honest... It’s a shame it took 4 days” 😂😂😂 Enjoyed that
Haha, cheers Danny! Glad you enjoyed it. I watched I back and was thinking to myself this is drier than Gandhi's flip flop..
Love the videos. I respect anyone who can jump into UA-cam while learning a new skill! That type of indicator is a dial indicator, dial test indicators have a pivot arm to take the reading. They are typically for more precise work. Dial indicators have a much larger range of travel and are great for, for instance, centering stock in a 4 jaw chuck. You might use a DTI on the surface plate for testing against a gauge block stack or finding the center of a bore on the mill. Might help if you’re looking for tools later!
Thanks Mike. I'm glad you are enjoying them.
Great information on the indicators. I'll be sure to remember that, thanks very much. 👍👍👍
Chocolate vice jaws 😅
Very interesting and informative video, thank you. I have just had similar problems trying to re-finish the blades from an old bench shear. Best regards, Jon
can't you just grind the mag chuck? pretty sure I saw keith rucker do that once..
I think that might be exactly what is required!
I'm reluctant to do it at the moment though as i'm very much a beginner with the machine. I'd like to do a few jobs with it that are less critical to gain a bit more experience and confidence. The chuck is looking like it's 'been done a few times' and does not have a huge amount left on it so I'd like to make sure I get it right first time. Thanks for watching 👍👍
me crispin will probably help you out with any future machining querys, he has an excellent channel and is UK based
Just checked it out. Thanks for the suggestion, it looks good.
Very informative stuff. Really enjoyed the learning experience here.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. An experience, it was indeed.. not one I fancy repeating to be honest..
Thanks for watching. 👍
nice work, you should be rewarded for having so much patience :)
Very interesting. So the source of the error was the fact that the magnetic chuck was bowed and this was bowing the part when the magnet was switched on fully, have I got that right? How would you correct that for future use? Presumably by surface grinding the top of the magnetic chuck?
Hi Carl. Great to hear from you again. I hope you are getting closer to home!
I think so yes, that and a combination of the part not being initially flat itself. The magnetisation with the chuck on was enough to deform the part. So I'd grind it then it sprung back. Then I found the chuck wasn't flat which compounded the problem. Yes I think the solution will be to grind the chuck. I'm reluctant to do this though until I have a bit more experience with the machine. I'll probably try a few more jobs on it that are less dimension-ally critical then do the chuck once I have a bit more confidence with the machine.
Thanks again for watching. 👍👍
@@Handmadeextreme I have been at home for a week but I volunteered to go back out on another job. I'm in a hotel in isolation prior to being tested for the virus on Thursday. If I'm well I can join the ship. I don't have any experience of surface grinding so that was really interesting. Seems there are a huge number of ways it can go wrong.
@@Handmadeextreme what can help is to have a piece of thin steel, well thinner than what you are grinding, to act as a stop and only partly engage the magnet. Thinking about that , if you are tempted to grind valve clearance shims you will need to have stops to stop the shim flying. Ideally thin steel with a hole for the shim to increase the area of the grip. Ask me how i know.😢
Hi Have you removed the mag chuck to check for corrosion between it and the table.. Interesting video..
Nope, that's a great idea!! The machine had been stood for about a year before last week when I got it going in the first video. It's looking like i'm going to have to take it off and clean it all up and re surface the chuck so i'll be sure to check. Thanks for the idea and thanks for watching. I'm glad you enjoyed it. 👍
Looks like you need to dust the chuck off, it's very common thing to do, check out soild Rock machine shop, guy is a master when it comes to surface grinding, great video!!
Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to check them out. I'm still learning with the grinder (as you can tell haha) Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching 👍
@@Handmadeextreme we're all learning and looks like your going about it the right way! I did the mag chuck on my capco grinder and the 2 kinda pointers I would give are:
Map it out the same way you did on your part, use the dial gauge and re-measure after every pass, thing I found was that the wheel had worn away slightly or gotten clogged by the time I got to the end, this left the mag chuck sloping back towards the head if you get me?
The other thing I'd say is it might be worth taking the mag chuck apart due to your magnetism issue, the whole magnetic "pack" may not be moving to the "off" position if the cam or pin that activates the cam is worn, that was the case on my eclipse mag chuck anyway!
I'm by no means and expert at it but if I can help in anyway let me know, keep up the awesome work 👍👍
Great tips, thanks very much. I did wonder about taking the chuck apart and reducing the height of the magnet if the strength persists to be a problem. I hadn't considered that it might be that it's just not switching off.. doh..
I'm sure it will crop up in some upcoming videos again soon.
Thanks again. 👍👍
@@Handmadeextreme might not be a good idea to take it apart unless you really really have to. They are not meant to be home shop serviced, if you believe the manufacturers.
Very informative video !
Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍 !
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Obtain a precision straight edge. Remove the vice (vise in USA). Remove the table. Check and if necessary grind the ways flat, first those on the machine, then those under the table. Replace the table. Check and if necessary grind the top of table flat. Clamp vice back on table and grind top of vice flat.
instead of placing the work longways, place the work as diagonally as possible and use a specific coolant for surface grinding.
Excellent advice, Thank you.
specific coolants for grinding can be expensive but are well worth the extra. If your budget won't stretch that far you can use a lower concentration down to just 3% which will still give the machine the rust protection it needs and will help stop the wheel loading too quickly. A grinding wheel only really needs cooling rather than lubrication....
Accumulative error is a bugger.
Never assume your machinery is dialed in perfectly. It took me quite a while to get my grinder dialed to acceptable tolerance.
Maybe worth dressing the mag chuck... Good way of dealing with lockdown...!
Yep, I think you are right. I'v been holding off doing it as i'm still learning how to use the machine and don't want to mess it up. Thanks for the tip and thanks for watching. 👍👍
@@Handmadeextreme check out Alec steele, think he did a surface grinder rebuilt.
Ah yes, I seem to recall him getting one a while back. I'v been watching his power hammer restoration series recently. I'll check it out, thanks. 👍
looks like you are using a 46 grit wheel which is good. Dress it more open, it sounds glazed. Perhaps your diamond is too worn.
Yes the chuck needs a regrind.
De-magnetize part. Block it in at the front. Slowly turn the chuck on until you feel the slightest friction on the part. If you turn it on fully it won't matter if you turn it off - it'll still be bowed.
No shim. Work both sides equally.
part maybe heating up when being ground, and then when it cools it's too small?
Definitely a problem I had as well. Lets just say there were 'a few more' iterations than made it into the video haha. I'd have felt really bad if i'd asked you to endure any more. I saw an intersting video by This old tony a while back were he went into detail about this. How the ends stay fixed and it bows up in the middle, you grind it, then it cools and you get a low spot.
It's a steep learning curve this surface grinding lark.
Thanks for watching. 👍👍
@@Handmadeextreme I watch him too. This is definitely something I could see someone going crazy on xD
Yeah, his channel is great, so well put together.
hi got a set of splash guards for a 540 you can have steve
Why don't you make a thick base that goes onto the magnets, since it's thick it doesn't get deformed (and ifit does it's fine because it's always the same deformation)
Then you surface that thick base and use this as a reference... that way your reference is always flat.
Then you can make a vise out of this thick base to hold the parts while grind-surfacing them.
Nice idea. I'll give that a try, Thanks for the support.
You need to watch Solid Rock Machine Shop
Just taken a look. I'll be sure to watch some of their videos. Looks like some great videos, thanks very much. 👍
Nice video. I often use superglue on the first side as it doesnt impart any clamping force and is easy to remove with acetone. Once you have one flat side, the other side is easier
Great tip, hadn't considered that, i'll have to give it a go. Thanks very much!! 👍👍
The first thing I think when I see this, is to put a piece of 3mm steel the size of the magplate, on the magplate, and run the surface grinder across the whole thing, New level surface to work on.
No idea if it would help, but it's the first solution that comes to mind.
You realize that putting the part on the mag chuck at a diagonal will help a lot of these problems, right? By placing the part on the mag chuck so that it's, uh...well square for lack of a better term, you are introducing errors into the grind. Put the part on it caddywhompus and then flip it for every pass. It'll take a lot longer but it'll remover a bunch of error from that mag chuck.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. As you can probably tell I'm quite new to surface grinding.
@@Handmadeextreme Also if you spin it (not turn it upside down) so that a different corner is pointing towards the "knee" (the part that the spindle attached to) you'll cancel out any mag chuck errors. Hop that makes sense. Hard to describe some of these procedures in text. Go watch This Old Tony do some work on his surface grinder. You'll see what I'm saying.
Also, don't clamp every part to the same spot over and over again. That's how the mag chuck got those low spots. Use different areas on it as much as possible. I know you can't do that 100% of the time, but when you can...
@@WmSrite-pi8ck @Wm. Srite Awesome advice, thanks very much. I Enjoy his videos a lot. I'll have to toddle on over and take a look. Cheers.
шлифнул бы губки боковым торцем камня не разбирая тиски
If you can't rely on the mag chuck to be flat, it's useless. Maybe give it a grind to fix it.
I think you are right! As a beginner with the surface grinder i'v been holding off doing it until I have a bit more experience with the machine. Thanks for the advice and thanks for watching. 👍
@@Handmadeextreme with any luck you will be able to dust it off a couple of thou only. That should last you quite some time in home use, if you dont keep sliding the work off the chuck that is. 😉
Thinks, it might be an idea to start looking for a demagnetiser, it is surprising how the part you are grinding picks up magnetism from the chuck, they also help with other tools that get magnetic over time.
You using a wrong coolant! Balser cut is only for miling, drilling and lath machine not for grinding!
Thr gindet surface ist still horrible!