Grey dealers selling a piece designed to stop grey dealers. Absolutely hilarious! You hit the nail right in the head there Austin about "Once a pre-owned, always a pre-owned?" The entire watch market needs a paradigm shift as it currently is no place for true enthusiasts like us.
Hi Austin, remember its all about Condition Condition Condition buying the piece and seller are important but the watch is the most important thing your buying!!!!!
My advice: Just check the watch BEFORE you buy (if possible). Tourneau/Bucherer is notorious for polishing the hell out of their CPOs and leaving a rounded off, overly shiny turd for you to enjoy.
It depends on what they offer for trade in Bucherer in US gives market value (You can get a quote from other grey market and they will match) + they give you 20% on top of that price when trading towards a new piece. This helps to bridge the gap. When you buy CPO you also get offered more new models due to your increased spend history so some people would rather do this than diamonds or lower end watches that don't hold value anyway. Its really a game of chicken with the grey market and I believe that Grey will increase prices because they can and with CPO pulling trade ins off the market there will be less supply for grey dealers making them need to get more per timepiece.
Here in Miami, Florida, USA they have a similar pre-Owned section at a Rolex authorized dealer, Watches of Switzerland, and according to a salesperson there, they are not really moving because prices are too high compared to grey market prices.
Interesting stuff Austin thanks... 43% is nuts though. I suspect it will drag up other neo-vintage prices and settle at about 15-20% between CPO and specialist used/vintage dealer . Vintage and Neo Vintage Rolex prices are holding well imho....although we all know some more contemporaneous pieces have gone down over 50% though last 12 months eg gold 'neo' Paul Newman's, daft priced Coloured OP's There are now 2 distinct markets - Pre 2007 (roughly pre-ceramic/chunkcases) and post 2008 flashier stuff (that is most susceptible to getting its pants pulled down and given a good slap imho). I think they will continue to fall and rare vintage stuff (that enjoyed only half the % growth of modern trinketry pieces last 3 yrs) will continue a slow growth due to rarity v demand. Rgds Paul
My AD in MERICA tried to sell the green dial gmt full set from 2004 with engraved rehuat to me for 55k us. This is 15k more than similar pieces I found elsewhere.
Update with my AD, though the CPO Program is not up and running in the states, he plans on initially having all the servicing done outside by Rolex, even though they have an in-house Rolex service center with three Rolex techs. Second, he will be setting the sale price and plans on being competitive with grey market prices. Questioning him further, Re his cost on Rolex servicing and certifying the watch, something the Grey market dealers do not have pay for, how can he compete (?). He said he will. We shall see.
The CPO program makes sense to me for Rolex. The gray market helps build a massive new Rolex customer base, then Rolex filters out the flippers, gray dealers, fakes ect... Leaving them with the (money is no object) clientel.
Ultimately watch buyers will determine CPO program success. Dealers will charge what people will pay. Of course, for investors/flippers the value prop is not there. An enthusiast who lost patience with the AD can go grey, save thousands over CPO and still get a 2 year warranty. Anyone who pays an inflated CPO price is going to get a reality check if they try to sell in the near-mid term. Similar to people who bought new cars with crazy markups during COVID/chip shortage. You cannot recoup the markup when you sell or trade. Just curious - when the CPO dealer gives their customer the insurance appraisal letter with the retail replacement cost, how do they square the circle? We bought our Rolexes from ADs at MSRP so the letters’ appraisals and retail replacement costs are identical to what we paid at MSRP. Everything lines up. With this CPO thing, it doesn’t.
CPO Premium equals peace of mind in a dangerous market ? The flippers won't be making profits from buying these. Cheers Austin, keep up the great content 🇬🇧
CPO piece will be over list as long as cases are empty (or display only piece). Sport Rolexes only in vault, this point forward, never in case, only to top customers? Nefarious
You observation that a CPO can be flipped just lijj oh e a new watch, and thus offers no safety, is correct. The CPO is all about gouging the small inexperienced buyer. Those watches will be bundled in sales of new popular models to flippers just like less popular new Rolex models.
Judging on the behavior of the "flagship" CPO retailers like Bucherer, can we assume that Rolex indeed uses CPO as a lever to drive secondary market prices up? What a disgrace!
There’s enough fake models out there that make the CPO proposition worth it for a small fraction of buyers. To your point, Austin, someone is paying for these to drive an increase in price. Do you remember when some folks were saying the CPO program was going to kill the grey market… those folks were way off. There’s a place in the market for both the traditional grey dealers and the new CPO program… Rolex just carved out another pricing segment. The way I see it is that there are now the following tiers: naked private, naked dealer, box dealer, box and papers dealer, Rolex CPO.
CPO should stand for Comedy Program Offer. I’d rather just buy a naked piece, send it to Rolex for servicing, get a service card, and call it a day. Those prices are a joke! What a slap in the face. I hope people are not buying these. Speak with your wallets so these bastards change their tune.
For sale is not the same as sold at. The CPO was always a price gouging scheme. To think otherwise is extremely naive. The problem with Rolex fan boys is they fixate on the logo. That makes them the perfect sucker.
The recent highly publicised on UA-cam shady dealing by certain grey dealers has been an absolute blessing for the CPO program. It seems with "The Cartel" everyone vouches for everyone until compensation is required and then they don't!! I said from the beginning that grey dealers would charge a premium for CPOs if they got got their hands on them. It didn't take long. 😂😂
If CPO prices were a good deal, dealers would be back at square 1 with empty cases even with the pre owned pieces. This cpo program is all about ADs having stuff to sell all the time and high prices will keep those pre owned cases do just that.
The Rolex customer wants the Rolex experience, of course one pays more. IT'S ROLEX! - IT'S CERTIFIED! - IT'S GUARANTEED! - THE PACKAGING! And the buyers are establishing an account with the AD.
You can put any price to a watch (CPO) ….. but do they also sell at these prices? I bet very few will ….. think about what can Rolex do to stop the secondary market prices to slide…… more and more models are offered even below list ….. mark CPO prices up alone won’t help …… there are still too many flippers …… Houston …we have a problem….
Rolex are a disgrace. I hope it blows up in its face. All those exhibition watches at Rolex ADs are part of future CPO inventory.Many great watches like Omega, Vacheron even Breitling are better alternative at much better prices and availability.
@@samuelburton5576 I am not hating on Watch Prices. I gave my opinion on the direction of the market, which you are also entitled to, as is anyone. And, I hated on horders, aka, grey dealers who are commonly (not all, not all) quite shady, and many (not all, not all) take advantage of the less knowledgeable consumer.
I don’t see the CPO prices as being sustainable. Cars,housing, and luxury goods are all way overpriced-I’m saving my money 💰 for fire sales to come.😎
Grey dealers selling a piece designed to stop grey dealers. Absolutely hilarious!
You hit the nail right in the head there Austin about "Once a pre-owned, always a pre-owned?"
The entire watch market needs a paradigm shift as it currently is no place for true enthusiasts like us.
Hi Austin, remember its all about Condition Condition Condition buying the piece and seller are important but the watch is the most important thing your buying!!!!!
I think Rolex is suprised how well they are doing in terms of value and they want to keep this status.
My advice: Just check the watch BEFORE you buy (if possible). Tourneau/Bucherer is notorious for polishing the hell out of their CPOs and leaving a rounded off, overly shiny turd for you to enjoy.
Danny - can you please attach the Morgan Stanley report that is referenced in this video? Thank you!
It depends on what they offer for trade in Bucherer in US gives market value (You can get a quote from other grey market and they will match) + they give you 20% on top of that price when trading towards a new piece. This helps to bridge the gap. When you buy CPO you also get offered more new models due to your increased spend history so some people would rather do this than diamonds or lower end watches that don't hold value anyway. Its really a game of chicken with the grey market and I believe that Grey will increase prices because they can and with CPO pulling trade ins off the market there will be less supply for grey dealers making them need to get more per timepiece.
The watch world has gone completely insane. Especially pre-owned Rolies. Good grief.
Do you have the link for the Morgan Stanley report?
Here in Miami, Florida, USA they have a similar pre-Owned section at a Rolex authorized dealer, Watches of Switzerland, and according to a salesperson there, they are not really moving because prices are too high compared to grey market prices.
They can afford to sit on them. Remember that
Interesting stuff Austin thanks... 43% is nuts though.
I suspect it will drag up other neo-vintage prices and settle at about 15-20% between CPO and specialist used/vintage dealer .
Vintage and Neo Vintage Rolex prices are holding well imho....although we all know some more contemporaneous pieces have gone down over 50% though last 12 months eg gold 'neo' Paul Newman's, daft priced Coloured OP's
There are now 2 distinct markets - Pre 2007 (roughly pre-ceramic/chunkcases) and post 2008 flashier stuff (that is most susceptible to getting its pants pulled down and given a good slap imho). I think they will continue to fall and rare vintage stuff (that enjoyed only half the % growth of modern trinketry pieces last 3 yrs) will continue a slow growth due to rarity v demand. Rgds Paul
Thanks for another episode, Austin.
Great video, great summary, Austin! Well done!
Thanks Danny!
Paying more for used than it costs new. Completely mad.
225570 Polars are almost 17k in the CPO.
My AD in MERICA tried to sell the green dial gmt full set from 2004 with engraved rehuat to me for 55k us. This is 15k more than similar pieces I found elsewhere.
Update with my AD, though the CPO Program is not up and running in the states, he plans on initially having all the servicing done outside by Rolex, even though they have an in-house Rolex service center with three Rolex techs. Second, he will be setting the sale price and plans on being competitive with grey market prices. Questioning him further, Re his cost on Rolex servicing and certifying the watch, something the Grey market dealers do not have pay for, how can he compete (?). He said he will. We shall see.
The CPO program makes sense to me for Rolex. The gray market helps build a massive new Rolex customer base, then Rolex filters out the flippers, gray dealers, fakes ect... Leaving them with the (money is no object) clientel.
Except Rolex ain't selling them. Their approved ADs are and are making up their own prices.
Exactly 💯% the AD's know exactly who Rolex wants as there customer base!!
Great program.
Ultimately watch buyers will determine CPO program success. Dealers will charge what people will pay. Of course, for investors/flippers the value prop is not there. An enthusiast who lost patience with the AD can go grey, save thousands over CPO and still get a 2 year warranty. Anyone who pays an inflated CPO price is going to get a reality check if they try to sell in the near-mid term. Similar to people who bought new cars with crazy markups during COVID/chip shortage. You cannot recoup the markup when you sell or trade. Just curious - when the CPO dealer gives their customer the insurance appraisal letter with the retail replacement cost, how do they square the circle? We bought our Rolexes from ADs at MSRP so the letters’ appraisals and retail replacement costs are identical to what we paid at MSRP. Everything lines up. With this CPO thing, it doesn’t.
CPO Premium equals peace of mind in a dangerous market ? The flippers won't be making profits from buying these. Cheers Austin, keep up the great content 🇬🇧
CPO piece will be over list as long as cases are empty (or display only piece). Sport Rolexes only in vault, this point forward, never in case, only to top customers? Nefarious
You observation that a CPO can be flipped just lijj oh e a new watch, and thus offers no safety, is correct. The CPO is all about gouging the small inexperienced buyer. Those watches will be bundled in sales of new popular models to flippers just like less popular new Rolex models.
Rolex is unstoppable.
Judging on the behavior of the "flagship" CPO retailers like Bucherer, can we assume that Rolex indeed uses CPO as a lever to drive secondary market prices up? What a disgrace!
Good for them. Not a disgrace at all
There’s enough fake models out there that make the CPO proposition worth it for a small fraction of buyers. To your point, Austin, someone is paying for these to drive an increase in price. Do you remember when some folks were saying the CPO program was going to kill the grey market… those folks were way off. There’s a place in the market for both the traditional grey dealers and the new CPO program… Rolex just carved out another pricing segment. The way I see it is that there are now the following tiers: naked private, naked dealer, box dealer, box and papers dealer, Rolex CPO.
Doesn’t the cpo premium reflect the cost of getting on the wait list?
CPO should stand for Comedy Program Offer. I’d rather just buy a naked piece, send it to Rolex for servicing, get a service card, and call it a day. Those prices are a joke! What a slap in the face. I hope people are not buying these. Speak with your wallets so these bastards change their tune.
I thought the official CPO doesn’t launch until April or May?
It's already started at certain locations in Switzerland and Europe, like Bucherer.
@@watchsymposium gotcha
Likely people are willing to pay more for assurance it’s authentic. Too many fakes out there.
Damn, that outro was enigmatic??
Rolex and AD Greed has been unleashed with the CPO program.
AD - you are going to the ROLEX AD - , you have some $$$ - & they are available - which piece ( or 2 ) are you pinning for ? ~ JDS/CT
For sale is not the same as sold at. The CPO was always a price gouging scheme. To think otherwise is extremely naive. The problem with Rolex fan boys is they fixate on the logo. That makes them the perfect sucker.
CPO IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE MORE AS IT WAS COMPLETELY REFINISHED AND CERTIFIED LIKE NEW FROM ROLEX WORTH IT
The recent highly publicised on UA-cam shady dealing by certain grey dealers has been an absolute blessing for the CPO program. It seems with "The Cartel" everyone vouches for everyone until compensation is required and then they don't!! I said from the beginning that grey dealers would charge a premium for CPOs if they got got their hands on them. It didn't take long. 😂😂
If CPO prices were a good deal, dealers would be back at square 1 with empty cases even with the pre owned pieces. This cpo program is all about ADs having stuff to sell all the time and high prices will keep those pre owned cases do just that.
First 😃
Quick on the click, Aron - thanks for watching!
Rolex are close to insane if they think that people will pay these ridiculous prices . Anyone who does pay these prices are certifiable.
Not really
The Rolex customer wants the Rolex experience, of course one pays more.
IT'S ROLEX! - IT'S CERTIFIED! - IT'S GUARANTEED! - THE PACKAGING!
And the buyers are establishing an account with the AD.
You can put any price to a watch (CPO) ….. but do they also sell at these prices? I bet very few will ….. think about what can Rolex do to stop the secondary market prices to slide…… more and more models are offered even below list ….. mark CPO prices up alone won’t help …… there are still too many flippers …… Houston …we have a problem….
Do you cut your own hair? Looks like it.
Are you a cunt? Sounds like it.
This is a CWSC. That is, a Certified Watch Symposium Cut, which are up 55% in 2023. And yes, they are investments!
@@watchsymposium Looks good on you.
Thought it might have happened in Bangkok at one of those salon / bar combo places.
Rolex are a disgrace. I hope it blows up in its face. All those exhibition watches at Rolex ADs are part of future CPO inventory.Many great watches like Omega, Vacheron even Breitling are better alternative at much better prices and availability.
Bye
I guess , CPO card also faked these days
Rolly Rolly Rolly.
Prices are crashing. Horders will be exposed. Cannot wait.
Keep dreamin
@@samuelburton5576 dreaming of what? I have all I want.
@@AcmeRocket then stop hating on watch prices and hoping for a collapse in prices
@@samuelburton5576 I am not hating on Watch Prices. I gave my opinion on the direction of the market, which you are also entitled to, as is anyone. And, I hated on horders, aka, grey dealers who are commonly (not all, not all) quite shady, and many (not all, not all) take advantage of the less knowledgeable consumer.
Buy!