Illegal serves are significant issues that greatly impact players who follow the rules. Furthermore, due to these illegal serves, table tennis can become a less enjoyable game. The winners often end up being those who use illegal serves
Time for video monitoring. A game as fast as TT needs AI to monitor serves. I don’t blame the umpires. They are sitting at the worst angle to call out illegal serves except for toss violations.
No need for AI. If the umpire is not 100% sure the serve is legal, he MUST call fault. It is the responsibility of the player, that the umpire can clearly identify the legality of the serve. If there are doubts, it is a fault. The umpires are doing a bad job. They are intimidated by these aggressive players. They need the backing of senior referees and international and national federations. If the player is showing no respect to the referee about his decision, this should result instantly to a yellow card, following by a red card in the end with temporary bans from tournaments. Unfortunately, the national and international federations are missing such dedication to enforce their own rules.
@@sebastianhocht6286 Why no ai? It makes the game more enjoyable, the referees are useless in tt and why making decision in competetive needs to be from a human thats not even in the position to tell if its fault or not. U beg on responsibility of the players in a competetive game? The referees are in the worst possible angle, the referee needs to be in the same angle the reciever stands to get the same view possibility otherwise the angle changes everytime, if you are to far to the left its fault serve if you are to the right its not, how can this be consistent? The serving rules are also trash and can be abused
Or the player does not try to hide the ball by doing a normal serve with the backhand, or a normal serve with the forehand in front of his body. It is very easy to do legal serves which are very easy to detect as such from one single referee.
Esse Pingsunday não sabe de nada, muito menos Andes Linds. Dois falidos. Pingsunday tem inveja do nosso astro Hugo calderano só porque o Brasil está se saindo melhor que muitos jogadores asiáticos. Kakakakakaka
@@sebastianhocht6286 its easy but not as good as one that's harder to detect. There is a spot at your body where its the best to control the ball on serve, but its also likely to be mistaken as being blocked by head or if its blocked by head, we will not notice it. And from the angle umpire is sitting, its pretty much impossible. And with the speed of the ball, it's very hard to tell clearly whether it got blocked or not even from server's angle, that's why we need monitors. And the angle is really hard to tell as well from human's eye especially with the varying height people are throwing.
I remember an umpire calling Ma Long for illegal serve who had bad return in the social media. Never heard of that again. So it is the TT fans who want their homie serving illegal and the other player serving legal.
That's basically why I don't really care about how others serve at me, if the guys 25 years ago could deal with worse stuff, I should be able to as well.
When I was young, this kindnof serve was legal and you had to get a strong instinct and very quick reaction time to guess what was the effect and length. It just became to its origin, especially with these balls bigger than before too... top players where the best anticipating and hiding during the game if you know how to take the initiative
Ovtcharov tosses the ball from left to right across the width of the table for his FH tomahawk serve and it's considered good by umpires. Others make a slight deviation from front to back and it's called a fault! Where in the rules does it say it's OK to toss from left to right but not front to back???
For me this starts at the bottom. I'm just a local league level player in England. People serve illegally all the time. However if you call it out you're the villain. 'It's just local league, who cares' etc. It's such a stupid mentality, it can lose you a game even if your the better player
I was once national level TT ref. I had huge problems with other refs because they did nothing. Players complained over inconsistent judges. If football judges were like TT refs the game would die.
In his particular case, this may be purr speculation, i don't know if the serves are illegal. There are two players in my league who have health and body conditions in their hands and they have official permission to serve in a way that normally would be considered illegal. I don't know if his condition affects the serve ability or not.
I have mentioned, for years now, that the majority of players serve illegally, but to no avail. I've even posted the rules in the comments section. I post every timestamp where the illegal serves are to people who ask me. What do I get? I get called a whiner, a liar, a pretender, an ignoramus, and various other nasty labels. It's a serious problem that needs addressing. The rules need to change to help umpires more clearly see the ball and its position relative to the receiving opponent. I have made numerous suggestions, but I doubt they will ever go anywhere.
I wonder if eagle eye tech still in use. Cause umpires normally seat at the side of the table. From umpire stand point as long as it is toss up and it is seen upon struck it is not called. But in opponent stand point if it is toss but struck after the head, shoulder or body block the view is hard to guess it is a topspin /underspin / no spin / side left or right. So the only way to deal with this is after the struck when the first bounce and also the sound of the struck plus the path of the curve only determine if it is top, under or no spin serve. If it is a quick and long serve pretty hard to judge. only applicable to short and slow serves. Mostly is reverse pendulum serve. Another one is the jab or punch serve. Service required to have good timing after toss. Is best that it could help as a momentum to generate enough spin and speed or in the case of low spinny and short serve. So no matter what it needs to be around the belly area is the most energy that can be generated. So example if you place your palm at the middle line of the table. Toss a short height towards your (stomach area) for sure the degree is wide and this considered fault. But if the same palm placement at the middle of the table. Throw up higher than the height of your head (high toss serve at least one meter) and then it lands towards your stomach area it can considered not fault cause the degree is less cause it travel up high before the contact at your racket. Provided you stand up straight like samsonov serve. Another thing to note that is if it past and being block by shoulder or head (most player do sometimes even the toss is high enough) so there is actually some grey area. Most of the umpire seat the side. From the side it is seen as valid. But at the player side it will be seen as fault cause some block by shoulder or head or even late opening of the free hand after the serve. It must be seen at all time by the opponent before the ball is struck.
it does shock me more than a little. one thing I have always said that sets TT apart from just about all sports is its sportsmanship. Example holding your hand up when getting a point from a net or edge, or acknowledging an edge ball when your opponent may not have noticed. So the blocked view serves, the less than 6 inch toss, and he sideways toss all go against my "sportsmanship" statement. I have seen a few videos on this subject and correcting the issue may not be so simple, but it seems it has to start with umpires calling out serves that break the rules.
@@usermk99 players have been complaining at many ITTF tournaments about illegal serves to mostly fall on deaf ears. can you imagine trying to return the serve of a top 100 player and you can't even see the ball contact? it would make no difference to me as I could not return one no matter what, but there are plenty of illegal serves and plenty of complaints about them.
@@usermk99 because they all know serves don't help to win. They know there are practically no perfect servcers anyway. Because they understand the one who is complaining is just a weak phychology bad character guys anyway, etc.
Not only the ball shall not be hidden, but also the free arm shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net. I think that is the same thing but in the rules it leaves no space for doubt: you can't put your arm in between the ball and the viewer. The ITTF 2022 Handbook states: "2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net. The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and its indefinite upward extension." I think it's very unfair that referees don't apply the rules and people at all levels are taking unfair advantage by practicing illegal serves, while others like me just train legal serves. Since recently I always tell the ref when my opponent hides the ball with its arm so as that for a moment after it is tossed I am not able to see it, for the first and the second time he does it. I try to do it in a descriptive and objective way like "It has put his arm in front of the ball so I can't see it" and even then the opponent's team often gets annoyed and sometimes aggressive, like if telling what I see was a threat to them. All times the referee does nothing and if there is some discussion he/she gives an excuse like he/she's seeing the ball, the arm can't be removed that much, "it is perfectly legal" or things like that. Then I accept it and focus on the match because otherwise it's useless. I think the main problem is that referees aren't taking responsibility for their authority and they don't have consequences for their mistakes.
Most annoying thing in table tennis, but it does not change as long as the rules don't get more clear or the umpires interfere more. The coaches i know learn their players to serve this way so they have a chance in competing because everybody serves this way. It isn't about being the most all around and best player anymore, it almost all about serve and receive in the game today i.m.o.
Empecé a jugar en 1994, el sevicio se podia esconder con el brazo, habia mas intuicion, mejores restadores y menos quejas, se cambio la regla no por la queja de los jugadores si no por las retransmisiones televisivas, igual q el aumento de tamaño de la pelota. Deje de jugar mas de 20 años y solo hemos ido hacia atras, quejas constantes de restadores, los materiales mas caros q cuando se usaba el pegamento rapido, la calidad de las gomas es mucho peor y mas costosa.. el tema de las faltas de saque es imposible de remediar a no ser que la regla deje de ser tan estricta, como explica Andreas segun el angulo muchos servicios parecen legales, la gran mayoria de profesionales hacen falta se saque todo el rato asique los partidos no podrian pararse todo el rato cuando se busca que sea un deporte dinámico. En mi opinion la regla tendria q ser bastante menos estricta ya se ha jugado con mas dificultad escondiendo el servicio y ganaba el q jugaba mejor no el mejor sacador
@@chrisnguyen6346 it's weird to assume that if he didn't waste his energy screaming he would be better than the Chinese, Japan is good only till juniors and then some chinese will take over eventually.
Here in the USA, the USATT does less than nothing to discourage illegal serving. You go to a rated tournament, and more than half the players are knowingly serving illegally, especially at 10-9, 10-10, etc. USA trainers almost never tell their clients how to serve legally. If you call another player on it, some handle it well, others hate you for life. And the kids coming up copy the cheating of the pros, just like kids do in every sport. It's no wonder pickleball has become so popular!
All famous players have ever made or make illegal services. I have played some games where depending on the referee you have it becomes impossible. When a player is known, everything is allowed...
@@cexygrandmaster I’m left handed and in my perspective the majority of right handed players serve like this. To see the ball contact to the blade I need to stay in the center of the table (like Timo Boll does) or I’m my forehand side.
If the umpire is not 100% sure that the serve is illegal, he must call a fault... Serving in an obstructive manner was at his peak height this olympics and these issue will just get even worse.
First of all, there's no single mentioning of any degree of toss in the official rules. Secondly, if we say, that the ball can be tossed +- 30 degrees upwards, then a 1 meter toss, can land ~58 cm from the start point. 30 cm is mathematically incorrect, since it is a relation of two opposite sites (ctg, tg of 30 degrees). That difference is important, because the ball can go twice as further as Anders believes - 30 cm vs 58 cm.
Every player need have illegal serve too...if your opponent start dirty serve you do it same...then if your opponent protest you can do the same thing...
Something needs to be done - rules and enforcement to be changed. This is ruining the game. That hidden ball rule - hidden from the recieving player - who can possibly judge that apart from the recieving player?
that's why the whole thing is completely idiotic, just killing the creativity and quality. I guess they don't even realize that training to get high quality "illegal" serve is much more difficult as fas ar stability and quality compared to the "legal" one))
So if this is really illegal why the umpire never intrupts ? It doesn't make sense if there was just one umpire ignoring we could have said the issue is only with this empire but nobody is stopping so maybe its fine after all?
Most people will drive too fast if there were never any consequences. Or drink and drive. Pay less in tax than the law stipulates. Etc. Unreasonable laws? Without enforcement no law works. I was TT ref, and I think they are a sad bunch, turning score sheets only, and saying net.
@@sormu16 you seem like the perfect rule follwer in life. the problem is that to many rules destroy the sport, not too little rule following is the problem. When i started playing TT there was no service rules. It was a very enjoyable game. Nobody argued about serves. The refs simply counted the points.
Thanks for the video coach! The illegals serves are really a pain, I am not playing tournaments (they are not so important) now because of the illegals serves, its really annoying to see the umpire to not take any action.
Yup this is a pathetic sport. No need competition. Anyway there is only that same few players playing among themselves. People lie us just use it for cardio and mind relaxing exercise. Good enough.
I stopped pointing out illegal serves a long time ago. If you point out an illegal serve, you might be regarded as a bad or a difficult person among players. I hope the ITTF will change the rule to require players to toss the ball above their heads. This change could help prevent illegal serves and unnecessary arguments, even if it doesn’t completely solve the problem.
When you see the ball when it's being hit, you also see the rubber at that moment. But in my opinion the rubber should always be visible, starting with the toss and ending with the hit.
Imagine you having a match and yout opponent serves illegally. You complain about it to the umpire, but nothing changes. Next to the return of said serves, alone these circumstances would get me out of my focus. A little bit of anger and stress and the ball will be off by a few centimeters. I would cost me at least a set to be able to focus again.
Genau DAS ist der Grund weshalb Tischtennis nicht meine Nr 1 Sportart ist. Es nervt total. Ich frage für was dieser Schiedsrichter überhaupt da sitzt...
because of the serves?..lol..TT is an absolute greatest sport and serve is just a 1st step though important one. I assume you don't watch football because of the offside and penalties
When different umpires do not say they are illegal serves, you could not say they are illegal. Some amount of non vertical ball throwing is accepted by all umpires and most of players use it
i am a returning player. As far as i see, the illegal serve is used worldwide, so it is unoffficially legal. That's why, i will i hide the ball a little bit. İf my opponent uses too, i will hide more without feeling guilty.
Ilegal serves always hapening and hapend befor _ if u are a tt player u must use to it already 🤷♂️ _ and focus on your play and dont ruin your mind _ and dont cry when someone do it 😅
내가보기엔 괜찬은데.. 저정도 가리는건 선수들이 다해서.. 공이 맞는 시점에서 가리는건 아닌데.. 손이 엄청 빨라서 서비스가 어려워 보임.. 미즈타니준처럼 완전히 보이게하고 미리 손빼고 하는 선수도 있지만 대부분 가리다가 맞는 포인트에서 보여주면 된다고 생각한다.. 그리고 상대가 오른손이냐 왼손이냐에 따라 보이는 포인트가 다른데 규정자체가 원래 모호함.. 왕하오는 서비스 맨날 뒤로 거의 45도 각도로 토스했는데..
If I was a pro I'd develop an illegal serve too. If the umpire never calls my opponent then I will keep serving illegally too. If you can't beat them join them.......
You say the guy only plays backhand cause he has neurological problems. Please give us a source on that. Cause an iranian friend of mine who plays table tennis as well says thats false and basically accuses you of spreading false information. He says its just his playing style and has nothing to do with medical conditions.
This makes no sense. He played “regularly” at a very high level before, with his forehand being an important part of his game. When you watch him play in 2015 and compare it to 2023, there is a HUGE difference in his playstyle. You can clearly see he has some discomfort when playing forehands, and even changed his whole grip. Someone who makes a living out if playing doesn’t just “forget” how to play forehands.
Also, Noshad said in an interview given to the Straits Times “But a neurological disorder seven years ago forced him to change his approach. World No. 53 Alamiyan revealed: “I have a problem with the nerves in my left hand. It happens to one in 1,000 people. I must play with my backhand because when I hold the bat, I cannot feel my forehand.”
The problem is, when the worse player wins by using illegal methods. This is not a real war with guerilla tactics, it should be a fair competition between two professional athletes, but it's not.
It's kind of weird that there's plenty of video proof that this guy serves illegally and neither the player nor the umpires have to face any consequences. People will draw their personal conclusions, which is training illegal services. What a drag!
Dude is international competition and is truly backhand dominant. That has to be something amazing. Aside from the serves that is. Some of it is barely legal.
oh, no...this time it's a wrong choice. Not Alamyan, bro. Only those complain about his serves who are weaker. His serves are top level as quality but even that doesn't help him reach top 30. So, let's enjoy the guy and his talant. There are many more with bad serves and no fun in the game
C'est clairement un problème mais vraiment pas facile pour les arbitres la le soucis c'est de la pro a et personne ne lui fait part de ce que tout le monde voit .pas simple vive le ping
Does TT suffer from a lack of qualified umpires? If people report obvious illegal serves, and the umpires fail to do anything about it, maybe the umpires should be penalized or lose their certification. Perhaps a penalty would help the umpires do a better job of enforcing the rules.
if u can't see enemy serve. it means u stand on the wrong side. there's no rule about where u should stand. so illegal serve? i think pratice more skill is better than complaining.
Are we trained enough to receive any service? NO, the complaint starts from there. I see hate for him because that guy really got strong backhand skill
The pros he plays against are able to return any serve, that is visible with extremely high rate. There is no excuse if amateurs are incapable to receive serves. If pros missjudge the opponents serve as often, as you van see in this clip, you can be 100% sure, that there was a fishy serve.
Lot and lot of videos for illegal serves... Wih current rules for serves it is impossible to survey all.. more umpire, more cameras just for high international ? are you serious ? lot of people advice these solutions... i think it is simply stupid... To my mind rules must be changed. one simple way : Just serve with the ball on blade in front of you and just one umpire can easily survey it !!! But professionnals don't want of it, because they worked hard to hide ball "quickly" with any part of body 🙄🙄🙄 To my mind we should continue to complain about it for years but not real solution.. i'm sad about it for this sport that i like so much 😮💨
That's a possibility, but we would have even less rallies than we already have. The sport will be absolutely unwatchable due to the ball size/weight change and the insanely factory boosted rubbers. We would have: Serve, miss. Or Serve, return, Attack, miss.
Most good players get the serves. Its not realy a big problem if you train a lot. If your eyes not good enough anymore than play as good as you can. I play table tennis for 27 years now. Nowadays the serves with the bigger ball is not a problem anymore. Free mind and train a lot. You will see. Get the serves goes better and better. Greetings from Germany
I almost play all racket sports. Now i completely give up table tennis because almost everyone serve illegally and they all very pride of it. What a shit sport. Now almost play tennis only it's much more gentleman sport.
Title of Video: "Why Illegal Serves Used in Paris Olympics 2024" Answer: I didn't get one, just a run down of rules and footage of illegal serving from somewhere else. Sad excuse for a video!
This serve is NOT illegal as long as ITTF allows it. Umpires can tell him once and he won't do that again. Noshad is a brilliant player, even with difficulty he has risen to this level.
Most china team use illegal serv..As long ittf dont change serve ruls ...or judges will not enforce the rules...this kinde od players will win ..for me all his serve illegal..The player should stand facing the player while serving..I don't know any other sport where rules are broken and, worst of all, it is accepted by the judges. look how var change foodbol..
It's the rule that are ridiculous. Angle throw? Open palm? Wtf man, those are too specific. Badminton also have similar problem with height and forward movement on serve but it's there for a reason (spinny serve are almost impossible to return). In TT just make it simple, like don't touch the table, maybe make serve must be to opposite box?
artificial rules and limitations for TT serves are stupid. They simplify the game a lot. Masters will always beat the best trick illegal server in the world unless he is perfect in all other components. If he is he'd become world # 1 and hats down. Those who lose because they can't receive and don't see the spin , they are weak and need to learn more to become Masters. As simple as that.
sorry emratThich but you are not very honest about illegal serves. you never mentioned your "precious" chines players who do very much illegal serves also including ma long, wang chuqin, xu xin, and many more. actually and unfortunately almost all pro players do illegal serves, Anders Lind mentioned about it in his video including himself. first off all the rule is not much appliable, because pro players never stands like a stick, always bend on their knees and use their body for better flexible position, second because they are using their body for flexible position, at the same time they use their body to hide ball so we're waiting from you "chinese pro players who are using illegal serves" video
Illegal serves are significant issues that greatly impact players who follow the rules. Furthermore, due to these illegal serves, table tennis can become a less enjoyable game. The winners often end up being those who use illegal serves
100% correct.
so just dont follow yourself, easy
Time for video monitoring. A game as fast as TT needs AI to monitor serves. I don’t blame the umpires. They are sitting at the worst angle to call out illegal serves except for toss violations.
No need for AI.
If the umpire is not 100% sure the serve is legal, he MUST call fault.
It is the responsibility of the player, that the umpire can clearly identify the legality of the serve. If there are doubts, it is a fault.
The umpires are doing a bad job. They are intimidated by these aggressive players. They need the backing of senior referees and international and national federations. If the player is showing no respect to the referee about his decision, this should result instantly to a yellow card, following by a red card in the end with temporary bans from tournaments.
Unfortunately, the national and international federations are missing such dedication to enforce their own rules.
@@sebastianhocht6286
Why no ai? It makes the game more enjoyable, the referees are useless in tt and why making decision in competetive needs to be from a human thats not even in the position to tell if its fault or not.
U beg on responsibility of the players in a competetive game?
The referees are in the worst possible angle, the referee needs to be in the same angle the reciever stands to get the same view possibility otherwise the angle changes everytime, if you are to far to the left its fault serve if you are to the right its not, how can this be consistent?
The serving rules are also trash and can be abused
Or the player does not try to hide the ball by doing a normal serve with the backhand, or a normal serve with the forehand in front of his body.
It is very easy to do legal serves which are very easy to detect as such from one single referee.
Esse Pingsunday não sabe de nada, muito menos Andes Linds.
Dois falidos.
Pingsunday tem inveja do nosso astro Hugo calderano só porque o Brasil está se saindo melhor que muitos jogadores asiáticos. Kakakakakaka
@@sebastianhocht6286 its easy but not as good as one that's harder to detect. There is a spot at your body where its the best to control the ball on serve, but its also likely to be mistaken as being blocked by head or if its blocked by head, we will not notice it. And from the angle umpire is sitting, its pretty much impossible. And with the speed of the ball, it's very hard to tell clearly whether it got blocked or not even from server's angle, that's why we need monitors. And the angle is really hard to tell as well from human's eye especially with the varying height people are throwing.
I remember an umpire calling Ma Long for illegal serve who had bad return in the social media. Never heard of that again. So it is the TT fans who want their homie serving illegal and the other player serving legal.
the rule is the problem created by the ittf. there was no service rule in past times and the game was fine.
I agree. Both Guo Yuehua and Jan-Ove Waldner were celebtated for their wizardy services.
@@krissalkond times when TT was a great sport
@@silversurfer6821 they added the rule to nerf Waldner who was too dominant at that time.
That's basically why I don't really care about how others serve at me, if the guys 25 years ago could deal with worse stuff, I should be able to as well.
When I was young, this kindnof serve was legal and you had to get a strong instinct and very quick reaction time to guess what was the effect and length. It just became to its origin, especially with these balls bigger than before too... top players where the best anticipating and hiding during the game if you know how to take the initiative
Ovtcharov tosses the ball from left to right across the width of the table for his FH tomahawk serve and it's considered good by umpires. Others make a slight deviation from front to back and it's called a fault! Where in the rules does it say it's OK to toss from left to right but not front to back???
For me this starts at the bottom. I'm just a local league level player in England.
People serve illegally all the time. However if you call it out you're the villain. 'It's just local league, who cares' etc. It's such a stupid mentality, it can lose you a game even if your the better player
Same everywhere worldwide.
very bad for the sport
@@pingsundayIndeed. It's exactly the same in France.
I was once national level TT ref. I had huge problems with other refs because they did nothing. Players complained over inconsistent judges. If football judges were like TT refs the game would die.
Thank you for your service.
dude's serves are dirtier than my internet search history
Still Cleaner than WCQ😅
@@citylidamj8898 filthy dirty.
In his particular case, this may be purr speculation, i don't know if the serves are illegal. There are two players in my league who have health and body conditions in their hands and they have official permission to serve in a way that normally would be considered illegal. I don't know if his condition affects the serve ability or not.
I have mentioned, for years now, that the majority of players serve illegally, but to no avail. I've even posted the rules in the comments section.
I post every timestamp where the illegal serves are to people who ask me. What do I get? I get called a whiner, a liar, a pretender, an ignoramus, and various other nasty labels. It's a serious problem that needs addressing.
The rules need to change to help umpires more clearly see the ball and its position relative to the receiving opponent.
I have made numerous suggestions, but I doubt they will ever go anywhere.
I wonder if eagle eye tech still in use. Cause umpires normally seat at the side of the table. From umpire stand point as long as it is toss up and it is seen upon struck it is not called. But in opponent stand point if it is toss but struck after the head, shoulder or body block the view is hard to guess it is a topspin /underspin / no spin / side left or right.
So the only way to deal with this is after the struck when the first bounce and also the sound of the struck plus the path of the curve only determine if it is top, under or no spin serve. If it is a quick and long serve pretty hard to judge. only applicable to short and slow serves.
Mostly is reverse pendulum serve. Another one is the jab or punch serve. Service required to have good timing after toss. Is best that it could help as a momentum to generate enough spin and speed or in the case of low spinny and short serve. So no matter what it needs to be around the belly area is the most energy that can be generated. So example if you place your palm at the middle line of the table. Toss a short height towards your (stomach area) for sure the degree is wide and this considered fault. But if the same palm placement at the middle of the table. Throw up higher than the height of your head (high toss serve at least one meter) and then it lands towards your stomach area it can considered not fault cause the degree is less cause it travel up high before the contact at your racket. Provided you stand up straight like samsonov serve. Another thing to note that is if it past and being block by shoulder or head (most player do sometimes even the toss is high enough) so there is actually some grey area. Most of the umpire seat the side. From the side it is seen as valid. But at the player side it will be seen as fault cause some block by shoulder or head or even late opening of the free hand after the serve. It must be seen at all time by the opponent before the ball is struck.
When you show the ball "hidden" its from a completely different perspective than the player, who it seems can indeed see it
it does shock me more than a little. one thing I have always said that sets TT apart from just about all sports is its sportsmanship. Example holding your hand up when getting a point from a net or edge, or acknowledging an edge ball when your opponent may not have noticed. So the blocked view serves, the less than 6 inch toss, and he sideways toss all go against my "sportsmanship" statement. I have seen a few videos on this subject and correcting the issue may not be so simple, but it seems it has to start with umpires calling out serves that break the rules.
The opponent has no issues. Umpires has no issues, perhaps ITTF is okay with this kind of serves
@@usermk99 players have been complaining at many ITTF tournaments about illegal serves to mostly fall on deaf ears. can you imagine trying to return the serve of a top 100 player and you can't even see the ball contact? it would make no difference to me as I could not return one no matter what, but there are plenty of illegal serves and plenty of complaints about them.
In doubles I apologise for the net/edge balls of my partner 😂. I'm a weirdo I know.
@@usermk99 because they all know serves don't help to win. They know there are practically no perfect servcers anyway. Because they understand the one who is complaining is just a weak phychology bad character guys anyway, etc.
Not only the ball shall not be hidden, but also the free arm shall be removed from the space between the ball and the net. I think that is the same thing but in the rules it leaves no space for doubt: you can't put your arm in between the ball and the viewer.
The ITTF 2022 Handbook states:
"2.6.5 As soon as the ball has been projected, the server’s free arm and hand shall
be removed from the space between the ball and the net.
The space between the ball and the net is defined by the ball, the net and
its indefinite upward extension."
I think it's very unfair that referees don't apply the rules and people at all levels are taking unfair advantage by practicing illegal serves, while others like me just train legal serves.
Since recently I always tell the ref when my opponent hides the ball with its arm so as that for a moment after it is tossed I am not able to see it, for the first and the second time he does it. I try to do it in a descriptive and objective way like "It has put his arm in front of the ball so I can't see it" and even then the opponent's team often gets annoyed and sometimes aggressive, like if telling what I see was a threat to them. All times the referee does nothing and if there is some discussion he/she gives an excuse like he/she's seeing the ball, the arm can't be removed that much, "it is perfectly legal" or things like that. Then I accept it and focus on the match because otherwise it's useless. I think the main problem is that referees aren't taking responsibility for their authority and they don't have consequences for their mistakes.
Most annoying thing in table tennis, but it does not change as long as the rules don't get more clear or the umpires interfere more. The coaches i know learn their players to serve this way so they have a chance in competing because everybody serves this way. It isn't about being the most all around and best player anymore, it almost all about serve and receive in the game today i.m.o.
Empecé a jugar en 1994, el sevicio se podia esconder con el brazo, habia mas intuicion, mejores restadores y menos quejas, se cambio la regla no por la queja de los jugadores si no por las retransmisiones televisivas, igual q el aumento de tamaño de la pelota. Deje de jugar mas de 20 años y solo hemos ido hacia atras, quejas constantes de restadores, los materiales mas caros q cuando se usaba el pegamento rapido, la calidad de las gomas es mucho peor y mas costosa.. el tema de las faltas de saque es imposible de remediar a no ser que la regla deje de ser tan estricta, como explica Andreas segun el angulo muchos servicios parecen legales, la gran mayoria de profesionales hacen falta se saque todo el rato asique los partidos no podrian pararse todo el rato cuando se busca que sea un deporte dinámico. En mi opinion la regla tendria q ser bastante menos estricta ya se ha jugado con mas dificultad escondiendo el servicio y ganaba el q jugaba mejor no el mejor sacador
noshad must be in the top 5 most annoying players to watch
Harimoto, with his lack of sportsmanship, is simply unbearable
@@BiscoWho wrong
@@BiscoWhohe might scream n is annoying but he is not disrespectful or unsportsmanlike at all.
@@BiscoWhoHe improved his habit a little.
@@chrisnguyen6346 it's weird to assume that if he didn't waste his energy screaming he would be better than the Chinese, Japan is good only till juniors and then some chinese will take over eventually.
lol. "He only plays backhand"! His first shot was a forehand return, and so was the third!😂
Here in the USA, the USATT does less than nothing to discourage illegal serving. You go to a rated tournament, and more than half the players are knowingly serving illegally, especially at 10-9, 10-10, etc. USA trainers almost never tell their clients how to serve legally. If you call another player on it, some handle it well, others hate you for life. And the kids coming up copy the cheating of the pros, just like kids do in every sport. It's no wonder pickleball has become so popular!
All famous players have ever made or make illegal services. I have played some games where depending on the referee you have it becomes impossible. When a player is known, everything is allowed...
There are many players whose serve are illegal including wang chuquin tossing
Lin shidong hook serve
Ping Pong with hidden serves allowed, is a completely different game from Ping Pong with hidden serves not allowed.
first of all Ping Pong is different game from Table Tennis :D
left hander always serves like this...wcq & lgy also has certain throw back and hidden serves
I'm left handed and don't serve like that.
@@cexygrandmaster I’m left handed and in my perspective the majority of right handed players serve like this. To see the ball contact to the blade I need to stay in the center of the table (like Timo Boll does) or I’m my forehand side.
If the umpire is not 100% sure that the serve is illegal, he must call a fault... Serving in an obstructive manner was at his peak height this olympics and these issue will just get even worse.
First of all, there's no single mentioning of any degree of toss in the official rules.
Secondly, if we say, that the ball can be tossed +- 30 degrees upwards, then a 1 meter toss, can land ~58 cm from the start point. 30 cm is mathematically incorrect, since it is a relation of two opposite sites (ctg, tg of 30 degrees).
That difference is important, because the ball can go twice as further as Anders believes - 30 cm vs 58 cm.
Every player need have illegal serve too...if your opponent start dirty serve you do it same...then if your opponent protest you can do the same thing...
Something needs to be done - rules and enforcement to be changed. This is ruining the game.
That hidden ball rule - hidden from the recieving player - who can possibly judge that apart from the recieving player?
that's why the whole thing is completely idiotic, just killing the creativity and quality. I guess they don't even realize that training to get high quality "illegal" serve is much more difficult as fas ar stability and quality compared to the "legal" one))
rule is telling very clearly show the ball at first not all of the ball way until shooting moment.
Its a problem with the umpiring not the server and should be called out. Players will always push boundaries and seek advantage.
players will always prefer to train the TT not train following stupid rules
Pathetic way to score points. Thanks so much for bringing up the subject again.
So if this is really illegal why the umpire never intrupts ? It doesn't make sense if there was just one umpire ignoring we could have said the issue is only with this empire but nobody is stopping so maybe its fine after all?
This is NOT player's fault, it's ITTF 's fault and shame on ITTF officers and those umpires in game.
According to your logic a criminal is not at fault if the police can't catch him. 😂
You mean the player does not have to know the rules and comply with them? Is it that what you are saying?
@@esmolol4091 no, it's a fault of politicians who wrote those rules at all
@@alexandervarna8085 Let me guess, you are an anarchist.
@@esmolol4091 no, just call me a smart guy who can see the core of the problem
i've seen anders lind talked 'bout this problem, and i see that umpires may need improvements or else the game would be ripped off
I was so hesitant by the whistles from the audience...
I can’t imagine how him opponent can withstand this tension😔
Yugi: I sacrifice my forehand to activate "Illegal Serves"
Kaiba: "Illegal Serves" are Illegals!
Yugi: "Screw the rule the umpire won't say s**t"
If you’re going to comment on Noshad you have to mention Wang Chuqin’s ridiculously illegal serve as well
yes. you can find the video on my channel. wang chuquin server is hidden serve
@@pingsunday thanks, Coach 👍
Makes me think of Pär Garell too, who also hides the serve. Basically, lefties can get away with it!
Agreed. The game is infected by this. Suppose this was at tennis. Would the supporters at Wimbledon complain?
if most players do illegal service, then perhaps the rule itself is unreasonable
If most people are criminals than the laws must be unreasonable too I guess according to your logic.
Indeed. The current rule provide a lot of room to illegal servers to argue.
Most people will drive too fast if there were never any consequences. Or drink and drive.
Pay less in tax than the law stipulates. Etc. Unreasonable laws?
Without enforcement no law works.
I was TT ref, and I think they are a sad bunch, turning score sheets only, and saying net.
@@sormu16 You are right.
@@sormu16 you seem like the perfect rule follwer in life. the problem is that to many rules destroy the sport, not too little rule following is the problem. When i started playing TT there was no service rules. It was a very enjoyable game. Nobody argued about serves. The refs simply counted the points.
Thanks for the video coach!
The illegals serves are really a pain, I am not playing tournaments (they are not so important) now because of the illegals serves, its really annoying to see the umpire to not take any action.
Yup this is a pathetic sport. No need competition. Anyway there is only that same few players playing among themselves. People lie us just use it for cardio and mind relaxing exercise. Good enough.
I stopped pointing out illegal serves a long time ago.
If you point out an illegal serve, you might be regarded as a bad or a difficult person among players.
I hope the ITTF will change the rule to require players to toss the ball above their heads. This change could help prevent illegal serves and unnecessary arguments, even if it doesn’t completely solve the problem.
They should make it a rule that the rubber is visible when hitting the ball, not just the ball
When you see the ball when it's being hit, you also see the rubber at that moment. But in my opinion the rubber should always be visible, starting with the toss and ending with the hit.
Clearly he has advantages due to his serve
Imagine you having a match and yout opponent serves illegally. You complain about it to the umpire, but nothing changes.
Next to the return of said serves, alone these circumstances would get me out of my focus.
A little bit of anger and stress and the ball will be off by a few centimeters.
I would cost me at least a set to be able to focus again.
don't complain. Concentrate and win
The rule must be changed. The umpire must see the ball while serving. The player has to serve in such a way, the umpire can see the ball .
Genau DAS ist der Grund weshalb Tischtennis nicht meine Nr 1 Sportart ist. Es nervt total. Ich frage für was dieser Schiedsrichter überhaupt da sitzt...
because of the serves?..lol..TT is an absolute greatest sport and serve is just a 1st step though important one. I assume you don't watch football because of the offside and penalties
The umpire can't even see the serve, let along the receiving player
Incompetent umpires are to blame!! The rules are there. They just don't have the balls to call it!!
When different umpires do not say they are illegal serves, you could not say they are illegal.
Some amount of non vertical ball throwing is accepted by all umpires and most of players use it
they are illegal because they clearly violate the rules as written.
We just need to get back the closed serves. We've been playing like this for half our lives and it's fine.
i am a returning player. As far as i see, the illegal serve is used worldwide, so it is unoffficially legal. That's why, i will i hide the ball a little bit. İf my opponent uses too, i will hide more without feeling guilty.
Ilegal serves always hapening and hapend befor _ if u are a tt player u must use to it already 🤷♂️ _ and focus on your play and dont ruin your mind _ and dont cry when someone do it 😅
내가보기엔 괜찬은데.. 저정도 가리는건 선수들이 다해서.. 공이 맞는 시점에서 가리는건 아닌데.. 손이 엄청 빨라서 서비스가 어려워 보임.. 미즈타니준처럼 완전히 보이게하고 미리 손빼고 하는 선수도 있지만 대부분 가리다가 맞는 포인트에서 보여주면 된다고 생각한다..
그리고 상대가 오른손이냐 왼손이냐에 따라 보이는 포인트가 다른데 규정자체가 원래 모호함..
왕하오는 서비스 맨날 뒤로 거의 45도 각도로 토스했는데..
all of these serves are nor illegal . all of them are on the rules
If I was a pro I'd develop an illegal serve too. If the umpire never calls my opponent then I will keep serving illegally too. If you can't beat them join them.......
If they won't police illegal serve, then make it legal to hide serves.
Only backhand serves should be allowed in T T.
serve in front of your body and stand facing your opponent
What a disgusting match 😡😡😡
You say the guy only plays backhand cause he has neurological problems. Please give us a source on that. Cause an iranian friend of mine who plays table tennis as well says thats false and basically accuses you of spreading false information. He says its just his playing style and has nothing to do with medical conditions.
For real? 😮
So could be a neurological problem, but not when he is playing his serve..... that's a little odd isn't it ???
This makes no sense. He played “regularly” at a very high level before, with his forehand being an important part of his game. When you watch him play in 2015 and compare it to 2023, there is a HUGE difference in his playstyle. You can clearly see he has some discomfort when playing forehands, and even changed his whole grip. Someone who makes a living out if playing doesn’t just “forget” how to play forehands.
Also, Noshad said in an interview given to the Straits Times “But a neurological disorder seven years ago forced him to change his approach.
World No. 53 Alamiyan revealed: “I have a problem with the nerves in my left hand. It happens to one in 1,000 people. I must play with my backhand because when I hold the bat, I cannot feel my forehand.”
Dicen... pero eso es falso!!!
Problem needs to be address starting from the top. If we can get penalties more often to CNT then this problem would start fading away.
It turned out that the greatest problem in table tennis is when the other player appears to be better than the other😊
Breaking the rules doesn’t mean being better
The problem is, when the worse player wins by using illegal methods.
This is not a real war with guerilla tactics, it should be a fair competition between two professional athletes, but it's not.
It's kind of weird that there's plenty of video proof that this guy serves illegally and neither the player nor the umpires have to face any consequences. People will draw their personal conclusions, which is training illegal services. What a drag!
Dude is international competition and is truly backhand dominant. That has to be something amazing. Aside from the serves that is. Some of it is barely legal.
Most of that something amazing come from the illegal serves otherwise the opponents would not give the chance.
@@NewsChainYou nailed it. His backhand dominant play stems from the preparation with illegal serves.
What is illegal here!?
@@dragonkick71 can’t see the contact
oh, no...this time it's a wrong choice. Not Alamyan, bro. Only those complain about his serves who are weaker. His serves are top level as quality but even that doesn't help him reach top 30. So, let's enjoy the guy and his talant. There are many more with bad serves and no fun in the game
C'est clairement un problème mais vraiment pas facile pour les arbitres la le soucis c'est de la pro a et personne ne lui fait part de ce que tout le monde voit .pas simple vive le ping
Darko jorgic is also such a plague.
Yeah
we must introduce video monitoring.
Does TT suffer from a lack of qualified umpires? If people report obvious illegal serves, and the umpires fail to do anything about it, maybe the umpires should be penalized or lose their certification. Perhaps a penalty would help the umpires do a better job of enforcing the rules.
yes. you are right
I like his service
It was legal before
he is one if the best in the world
noshad one of the most annoying and enjoyable (at the same time) players to watch in recent years
if u can't see enemy serve. it means u stand on the wrong side. there's no rule about where u should stand. so illegal serve? i think pratice more skill is better than complaining.
Are we trained enough to receive any service? NO, the complaint starts from there. I see hate for him because that guy really got strong backhand skill
The pros he plays against are able to return any serve, that is visible with extremely high rate. There is no excuse if amateurs are incapable to receive serves.
If pros missjudge the opponents serve as often, as you van see in this clip, you can be 100% sure, that there was a fishy serve.
Lot and lot of videos for illegal serves...
Wih current rules for serves it is impossible to survey all..
more umpire, more cameras just for high international ?
are you serious ? lot of people advice these solutions...
i think it is simply stupid...
To my mind rules must be changed.
one simple way :
Just serve with the ball on blade in front of you and just one umpire can easily survey it !!!
But professionnals don't want of it, because they worked hard to hide ball "quickly" with any part of body 🙄🙄🙄
To my mind we should continue to complain about it for years but not real solution..
i'm sad about it for this sport that i like so much 😮💨
noshad is great
I say it once again, he has no neurological problems. Iam in contact with the Iranian team. You should improve your research!
Noshad definitely has a neurological problem... inside his head.
Pure Chuqin e Ma Long nascondono la pallina nel servizio...
Ilegal… Haid the ball all the times
Why make rules thats not enforced? Remove the rule and let everyone enjoy an illegal serve. Simple.
That's a possibility, but we would have even less rallies than we already have.
The sport will be absolutely unwatchable due to the ball size/weight change and the insanely factory boosted rubbers.
We would have:
Serve, miss.
Or
Serve, return, Attack, miss.
Most good players get the serves. Its not realy a big problem if you train a lot. If your eyes not good enough anymore than play as good as you can. I play table tennis for 27 years now. Nowadays the serves with the bigger ball is not a problem anymore. Free mind and train a lot. You will see. Get the serves goes better and better. Greetings from Germany
I guess Timo Boll was an amateur because he couldn't return many of yoshimuras serves... 😂
so does ma long...
I almost play all racket sports. Now i completely give up table tennis because almost everyone serve illegally and they all very pride of it. What a shit sport. Now almost play tennis only it's much more gentleman sport.
go back to the old time allow covering serves
Some (inter)national referees have guts.
Some don't.
Title of Video: "Why Illegal Serves Used in Paris Olympics 2024" Answer: I didn't get one, just a run down of rules and footage of illegal serving from somewhere else. Sad excuse for a video!
It's not his fault like if no ref is doing anything then it's fair game to do whatever.
Nah, IMHO, thats not against the rule, its just a technique.
This serve is NOT illegal as long as ITTF allows it. Umpires can tell him once and he won't do that again. Noshad is a brilliant player, even with difficulty he has risen to this level.
shame on you ITTF 🎉
Good job Noshad. If Andreas cannot return the service, it does not make it illegal. Andreas should try harder.
Humans 😂 everything i cant counter should be illegal
The best way to counter illegal serve is to prepare your own illegal serve
Most china team use illegal serv..As long ittf dont change serve ruls ...or judges will not enforce the rules...this kinde od players will win ..for me all his serve illegal..The player should stand facing the player while serving..I don't know any other sport where rules are broken and, worst of all, it is accepted by the judges. look how var change foodbol..
Noshad is a disgrace for the sport
Sorry, I only see his legal serves. The only rule is that his opponent has to see the ball the whole time, not both umpires.
Then *you* cannot claim to see only legal serves, because you, like the umpire, don't have the persective off the opponent.
It's the rule that are ridiculous. Angle throw? Open palm? Wtf man, those are too specific. Badminton also have similar problem with height and forward movement on serve but it's there for a reason (spinny serve are almost impossible to return). In TT just make it simple, like don't touch the table, maybe make serve must be to opposite box?
artificial rules and limitations for TT serves are stupid. They simplify the game a lot. Masters will always beat the best trick illegal server in the world unless he is perfect in all other components. If he is he'd become world # 1 and hats down. Those who lose because they can't receive and don't see the spin , they are weak and need to learn more to become Masters. As simple as that.
C if u doing the same "illegal" serve like them, can you play as good as them. If not, dont criticised them.
But it’s against the rules.
what is this argument lol
@@chopblock123rules are for weaking
sorry emratThich but you are not very honest about illegal serves. you never mentioned your "precious" chines players who do very much illegal serves also including ma long, wang chuqin, xu xin, and many more.
actually and unfortunately almost all pro players do illegal serves, Anders Lind mentioned about it in his video including himself.
first off all the rule is not much appliable, because pro players never stands like a stick, always bend on their knees and use their body for better flexible position, second because they are using their body for flexible position, at the same time they use their body to hide ball
so we're waiting from you "chinese pro players who are using illegal serves" video
he even showed wang chuqin in the video so you can not blame him for not blaming them btw everyone does it
He is french