the size is so compact they could redesign as a thumb drive if the figure out a way to run most of them via type c or thunderbolt. Really looking forward to it.
You'd still need a video input, I understand some devices put out in type C video too, but unless it works natively in bios it neutralizes the point of a KVM.
I made a DIY pikvm v2 using a pi zero 2w and total project cost was around $45. It has been such a life saver using it to setup my recent opnsense firewall and also managing a few of my thin client PCs.
@@DavidAlsh Google "Pikvm V2", Pikvm has all the documentation on their site. Requires a bit of tinkering but not difficult and very worth it if you have the use for one. I also printed a case from printables that allows for an oled screen to be added.
@@settlece Depending upon how your motherboard's power button is setup, you can potentially insert the zero to intercept the button presses so that the zero is the thing that actually closes the circuit and the button just tells the zero to close the circuit, which freezes things up to allow the pi to pretend that the power button is being pressed even when it's not because you're not there. On my system, that would require a custom connector, but I've had computers that I built where the power switch was literally just a switch with a couple female leads that would be plugged into a motherboard header. A motherboard like that could definitely be set up so that you could remotely power the system down and turn it back on remotely. I can't figure out a way of interacting during the boot process, which is probably not that big of a deal, given that if it's stuck there, you may not even have network access anyways.
On the more expensive devices, you're not paying for the hardware and packaging, you're paying for access to the guts. As anyone who has ever bought a Pi over a "Pi killer" knows, the key is in support, community, full software access, and excellent documentation. Glad to see a new entrant and I hope they do well enough to feel comfortable open sourcing their work in the near term.
True. Pi 5 with Ubuntu is rock rock solid. I leave it on 24/7 and it's faultless. Makes me want to switch to Ubuntu full time. Next time I need to reinstall Windows I'm going to Ubuntu instead. Looks better. Runs smoother. Makes more sense. Less spying. And now that games seem to work great on Linux. Maybe I'll start with my laptop and see how it goes.
Also paying for the developers working on PiKVM which is usually the base (or at least some of its components) for many of these devices. I'm always willing to spend a bit more to ensure the health of the open source foundations for these products (to a point!), and if a company bases their hardware on an open source software project, I usually ask if they are willing to also provide monetary support back to the project they're basically profiting off of.
@@dominick253 main issue with Ubuntu are snaps (which rely on a single built-in proprietary server). Either use a de-Canonical Ubuntu (e.g Mint and Pop!_OS), Debian, or an official Fedora/OpenSUSE distro (perhaps the atomic ones like Kionite).
Holding source code hostage until an arbitrary number of stars on GitHub is reached is wild. I fully expect to see, "Oh we reached 2k stars a while ago but now we've got 'stretch goals.'"
why a red flag? Even if it stays closed source it remains orders of magnitude better than most other offerings. There is like PiKVM and PiPilot I think and that's it, everything else is absolute garbage
@@elly3713 Opensource means zero income. And how is that a great business model??? When was the last time you tried to pay for food and living by *selling* open-source code?
The point about it being open source is bang on. I trust open-source solutions more but am completely OK with closed-source ones as well, which depends on who made it and what kind of track record they have. I’d prefer NOT to be exploited for my data in the first place, but advertisers getting a hold on my data is FAR better than it ending up in the hands of state-owned or state-linked businesses of authoritarian superpowers like China. In my order of trust, I’d put open source over closed source, and that above Chinese or Russian closed source.
After recent events in the Middle East I went and re-read a paper written by Ken Thomson of UNIX and C fame that was written in 1984. It's called: Reflections on Trusting Trust, well worth a read. I recently bought a Risc-V board that has a custom OS that is used to download actual images to install on it. What else does that custom OS do? Why does it even exist? Why is my Samsung cooker relentlessly trying to connect to wifi in my home? Why does the app for the battery management system in my solar system need to know my GPS coordinates before starting? These and other questions are yet to be answered.
Your BMS is probably configured differently when started in EU. According to local EU law there are certain restrictions apply to batteries, such as temperature, for example. I've got an action camera, which won't allow the hardware to heat up above certain point if the location is within EU, however if you change the location to US when on vacation, i'll allow more aggressive heating. Everything is suspicious, however not everything is dangerous.
@@vitaliisumin64 :Your BMS is probably configured ..." How do you know what is in my system or how it's configured or setup? Or even where its located? The problem with people that dismiss what other people say is you haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about, never ask for clarification, then proceed to pontificate about your own myopic world view.
@@vitaliisumin64 all information required should be provided on installation by the technician. a BMS of a solar installation is not a portable device, and it's also handling large amounts of power. It's wildly dangerous to have it guess its location (and therefore power/safety limits) by asking a phone's GPS data.
@@vincei4252 Sorry somebody answered your solar question and you weren't happy with the answer, I guess? Your concerns are real, but if you're not open to replies, why even comment?
I ordered mine when Wendell's video dropped, still waiting for it but I'm excited. I'll stick it onto the Thin Client I use as an OPNsense router, which is the only feature missing to me :)
People out there calling pikvm expensive? Guys, when pikvm dropped it was SEVERAL TIMES cheaper than almost all other options at the time not to mention that all the other options were closed source.
It's also like the Apple comparison he made. It's about trust. With this being RISC-V it would be nice for open source software as it means it is entirely open source.
Yeah, not a fan of gamifying repo stars. It's a strange metric to care about, as it should at most be seen as a general gauge of interest... not anything to do with project health and should definitely not be tied to any kind of KPIs!
and i will star their repo with my whole bot network (like 8 nodes, but shhhhh ;p) just to get the source faster and manifest that attention != quality. How many cool projects aren't starred because they aren't built with (name newest JS framework this week). Fuck starts (with riscv strap-on:P)
this is finally small enough form-factor to implement my KVM idea - would be a slightly bigger box but have a C13 on one end and a C14 on the other, so could give itself power and also have a "hard-reset" relay inside. Then attach it to the server/PC with a short C13-C14 power cable. I'll still wait until they port PiKVM or Open Source their OS though...
Thanks! Was going to mention something about the baby in this video but just didn't think about it until now haha. Baby's doing great, sleep is about 60% recovered so far, and it's been "fun" being the full-time kid-shuttle while my wife was recovering.
I just wish status displays for always on devices would stop using OLED panels and go back to LCD or anything else that won't burn out or fade withing a year or two
It's interesting-some devices seem to ensure the screen refreshes enough it's not a problem, others tend to burn in. This one changes out the bottom portion of the display at least, but I could see the 'NanoKVM' logo burning in over long periods.
At work they use eink displays, so that you can always see the latest update even if the power is removed, or the device breaks, or anything else happens
I just finished stuffing my new server shelf - and this video drops. Awesome, I looked at the PiKVM and the price was kinda crazy. Besides, with some short wires, just hanging the NanoKVM off the back of a server is super doable. Really like the idea and method behind this - let's see if they do open source it though.
I'm no lawyer, but I'm 85% sure there's no such thing as "their proprietary OS" (it contradicts the fact that it's very cheap) and it has a LOT of GPL code in it and possibly violating a few of these licenses. The only thing proprietary about it is I guess the RISC-V code optimizations (the ISA is open so no idea what's the deal there) and maybe peripheral IPs (like an HDMI input, hw encoding, USB controller Link & ULPI, ethernet MAC, etc) they may have bought or developed.
This looks like it's got so much potential. If they iron out the bugs, I'd get one. Just need to get _another_ firewall so I can hang it off the back of the firewall.... 🙄
These things are great, I've got a Lite one and some others on the way. Performance hasn't been ideal in my testing but the price difference is crazy. I got mine for £16 before the price increased so it's just so inexpensive. You can also add all the missing features of the Lite to it manually, I just got some optoisolators and resistors and added the power button control to it. In terms of security it would be ideal if it was open source but to be fair you can just block it from having an outgoing connection to the internet and most of the risk is mitigated.
Yep; many people who would pick one up might not know how to set up an isolated management VLAN, but honestly, for any BMCs that's a good idea (even if you fully trust them!). They have total control over your server!
"At $40, a lot of people will buy one without thinking." 100% me (though the preorder was $50 for some reason.) I just preordered the "full" one. The price is just way too low to not buy one.
The price was lower during earlier preorder rounds, they've raised it up to $50 which I believe is their normal MSRP now... hopefully :D I started writing the script when it was lower, and forgot to fix a couple mentions when I recorded the final version of the script, d'oh!
I have a Pi4 running some critical infrastructure. So I hacked together a solution with a Pi Zero W and an ESPHome-powered smart plug. Configured the Pi4 to use a serial console, and connected that to the Zero W. This gives me console access to the Pi 4 via the Zero W. If I need to power-cycle the Pi 4, I toggle the smart plug from the Zero W. I don't have true keyboard or mouse access... but with a serial console on the Pi 4, I don't really need that. (And actually, I could hack up keyboard/mouse emulation with the Pi Zero W's micro-USB port, but without video it doesn't make much sense.)
How's that? They made the software open-source, which allowed me to build my own PiKVM without paying them a dime. I'd say that's pretty damn reasonable of them, and it makes sense to me that they want to have a high profit margin on their pre-built options.
PiKVM is worth every of it's asking dollar. Not only they've opensourced everything, they were pioneers bringing affordable OOBMs to homelabbers like myself. Heck i can also mail this little sucker whereever it's needed and serve remote administration services (which i did a couple of times). So yeah, go get some priopietary big brand name BMC, ah yeah, they're not selling them outside of their devices ;p
In what way unreasonable? Selling hardware means a legal requirement for warranty and support. That can cost quite a bit of money. Are you willing to offer a cheaper product? Where can I buy it?
this reminded me i ordered one last month. Or I thought I did. Can’t find an email confirmation anywhere. Really started to doubt my own memory until I found the extremely sketchy feature on their website that lets you look up an order just by entering the associated email address. And yes, I have an order from August 2nd and it’s paid for. Good. Given the complete lack of updates I’m a little concerned tho. I guess it’s not a lot of money.
Considered picking up one of these things.... If/when I do it'll definititely be locked behind its own VLAN and firewalling/WireGuard. For now I'm going to keep holding off.
im fine with the condition of open source they have put, 95% of people saying that it's a red flag have probably never contributed or audited any code, and the devs need to make back the R&D cost, its upto them what they think the cost of making it open source is
Welcome back Jeff. Baby routine back on menu again lol. I wouldn't put my bet on open sourcing of the OS. Biggest red flag is they demand stars and number of sales to open source it. Who can guaranteed they will do that when they hit the target? If anything, sounds like MO for scam tbh.
Exactly! It's all down to trust-and after everything that's happened in the past 50 years with various software companies... that's a precious commodity that's hard to come by :)
I checked to see how long they would take to get it here. They don't sell it to the US except direct. Kinda weird. Aliexpress sells it to anywhere except USA and China.
Usually they get it to more distributors as time goes on, but yeah, it's direct shipment which takes a bit longer and is more expensive. I hope if they can solve the issues and get the thing off the ground, they'll get it on Amazon, or at least Aliexpress US.
The whole "we're only going to open source the code if you give us money and attention teehee" thing is an incredibly massive red flag and I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10ft pole.
That's my guess as to why they didn't start off completely open source, and have a sales target. They probably want to make back the R&D cost on it before 5 other clones are built by other Chinese companies... sadly that's the way of things with many cool bits of gear that just require a PCB + enclosure + some chip inside.
@@owlmostdead9492 PiKVM is vastly more powerful and extensible/flexible (i.e. you can integrate it with any VPN or modem or other device to make a single independent package). This hardware is bare minium and comparable to Raspberry Zero W. Even with open source it's not competing in the same weight class because it's sacrificing flexibility and power for low price.
couldn't you significantly improve security by putting it on your management vlan, not giving that vlan any direct internet access, and only allowing particular machines to access that vlan (externally using a vpn for access)? - if it doesn't have access to the internet, it shouldn't pose an external threat.
Hey Jeff - when plugging into windows, how does this device announce itself? Is there anyway to override its device type so it looks like a standard keyboard and mouse vs some proprietary machine?
Yes; using the little ATX adapter board, you plug that into your motherboard's front panel header, then plug the front panel connectors onto the little adapter board. Then you can still use the case buttons, but also have access to power over the remote UI.
@JeffGeerling How practical would this be as a remote support interface? I.e. "Sorry to hear you're having problems with the Chromebook, but I'm across the country right now. Just take the device out from where we left it; plug the cables in, just like in the photo I sent you; and I'll take a look from here" ....
It would be great for that-in fact, it can be powered off the USB port itself, so you could just plug in USB + HDMI using a couple short cables, and network, then that'd be adequate for temporary remote debugging.
@@marcogenovesi8570 There's a use-case difference between the persistently connected, server-related IPKVM, and an infrequently connected device, booted only when it's used for assisting less technical folks - e.g. once a year, on demand 🙂 Jeff's video was definitely aimed at the former category, and I'm asking about the latter!
I'm not sure I could trust someone less than Apple, but still wouldn't trust a random Chinese company either. At least it's good to have options out there.
I recently needed a KVM for work and was surprised I couldn't find a IP KVM that supported dual monitors for under like $3000. If anyone on here has any suggestions, I would love it.
IP KVMs are not meant for remote work but only for management. For actual work it is usually better to use remote desktop software like NoMachine or Parsec
@@nomen.nescio lol yeah I'm sure all their bad security practices and sending data to chinese cloud services is "widely regarded" by the people "of the industry" as just a mistake, no company could possibly be making "mistakes" on purpose, three letters and cccp have never added "mistakes" into other firewall software
Yes; only need HDMI plugged in for remote viewing, then HID USB for remote control. You can add on ATX power controls / pwr/act LED if you want but that's not necessary.
IP KVM work even if PC has issues or can be used to reinstall windows. It's useful if you have a server in a remote location. If all you have is a PC in your room you don't need this
Yeah, that's the big difference between either a PC located nearby, or a server stashed away somewhere remote. Don't really need the control on the one nearby (especially if you turn it off when you're not near it!).
It's $50 (plus shipping), and right now they're working on a new hardware batch with the fixes for the things I mentioned in this video. Check the link in the description, they don't have the easiest website to navigate (IMO).
@@iv6123 - Jeff said that it's "pretty dangerous to just let one of these things live online, right?" but that was in reference to the software not being open source. I contend that open source or not, your ip-kvm should not be directly internet accessible. He also later touched on the "backdoor" concern.
Blind trust in ANY company is not warranted for several reasons including hiding security issues until after they are fixed, massive data collection, backdoors or future backdoors, etc. I only trust companies where I know and trust every person. Open source is critical for security related devices. Operate at your own risk.
the standard procedure for IP KVM is to put them on their own management network and have them accessible only through VPN. It's not like Dell, HP or Lenovo's server management IP KVMs are much more trustworthy
This type of stuff gets my paranoia going... I refuse to buy the cheaper and more plentiful wifi IoT devices exactly for this reason. I don't trust these Chinese companies that seem to sell the same products under 100 different brand names. I'm not buying it without a security layer between it and my network...
Yeah... hard, hard, *hard* pass on this one. I'd almost trust them more if they were just keeping it closed and not making weird promises. I can kind of understand the business argument if a software firm wants to get some sales in before they reveal source. But a _network hardware_ firm being noncommittal about source code? Nope. Way too weird.
the size is so compact they could redesign as a thumb drive if the figure out a way to run most of them via type c or thunderbolt. Really looking forward to it.
You'd still need a video input, I understand some devices put out in type C video too, but unless it works natively in bios it neutralizes the point of a KVM.
The security concerns are not a hard pass from me, but the hardware issues make it a "wait and see" for me
I made a DIY pikvm v2 using a pi zero 2w and total project cost was around $45. It has been such a life saver using it to setup my recent opnsense firewall and also managing a few of my thin client PCs.
Instructions pls
now that what i will use my zero for
@@DavidAlsh Google "Pikvm V2", Pikvm has all the documentation on their site. Requires a bit of tinkering but not difficult and very worth it if you have the use for one. I also printed a case from printables that allows for an oled screen to be added.
@@settlece Depending upon how your motherboard's power button is setup, you can potentially insert the zero to intercept the button presses so that the zero is the thing that actually closes the circuit and the button just tells the zero to close the circuit, which freezes things up to allow the pi to pretend that the power button is being pressed even when it's not because you're not there. On my system, that would require a custom connector, but I've had computers that I built where the power switch was literally just a switch with a couple female leads that would be plugged into a motherboard header. A motherboard like that could definitely be set up so that you could remotely power the system down and turn it back on remotely.
I can't figure out a way of interacting during the boot process, which is probably not that big of a deal, given that if it's stuck there, you may not even have network access anyways.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade plenty of HDMI to CSI adapters about or the Pi can do display in via GPIO
On the more expensive devices, you're not paying for the hardware and packaging, you're paying for access to the guts. As anyone who has ever bought a Pi over a "Pi killer" knows, the key is in support, community, full software access, and excellent documentation.
Glad to see a new entrant and I hope they do well enough to feel comfortable open sourcing their work in the near term.
True. Pi 5 with Ubuntu is rock rock solid.
I leave it on 24/7 and it's faultless. Makes me want to switch to Ubuntu full time.
Next time I need to reinstall Windows I'm going to Ubuntu instead.
Looks better. Runs smoother. Makes more sense. Less spying.
And now that games seem to work great on Linux. Maybe I'll start with my laptop and see how it goes.
Also paying for the developers working on PiKVM which is usually the base (or at least some of its components) for many of these devices.
I'm always willing to spend a bit more to ensure the health of the open source foundations for these products (to a point!), and if a company bases their hardware on an open source software project, I usually ask if they are willing to also provide monetary support back to the project they're basically profiting off of.
@@dominick253 main issue with Ubuntu are snaps (which rely on a single built-in proprietary server). Either use a de-Canonical Ubuntu (e.g Mint and Pop!_OS), Debian, or an official Fedora/OpenSUSE distro (perhaps the atomic ones like Kionite).
We need a revision of this ASAP.
I'll buy 100 Lites if they add POE and get pikvm running.
Please keep us posted on this Jeff!!
Bloopers at the end?
Nice touch!
great now my pc can wear pasties and go out at night thanks Sipeed!
Closed source until certain number of units sold?
Yeah, immediate red flag for me.
Holding source code hostage until an arbitrary number of stars on GitHub is reached is wild. I fully expect to see, "Oh we reached 2k stars a while ago but now we've got 'stretch goals.'"
I guess they just want the development to get paid before people start building them all by themselves for free
why a red flag? Even if it stays closed source it remains orders of magnitude better than most other offerings. There is like PiKVM and PiPilot I think and that's it, everything else is absolute garbage
This, opensource or GTFO
@@elly3713 Opensource means zero income. And how is that a great business model???
When was the last time you tried to pay for food and living by *selling* open-source code?
The point about it being open source is bang on. I trust open-source solutions more but am completely OK with closed-source ones as well, which depends on who made it and what kind of track record they have. I’d prefer NOT to be exploited for my data in the first place, but advertisers getting a hold on my data is FAR better than it ending up in the hands of state-owned or state-linked businesses of authoritarian superpowers like China.
In my order of trust, I’d put open source over closed source, and that above Chinese or Russian closed source.
But why do you care if China has your data?
They can do something only if you are there.
giving an IP KVM internet access is foolish, these devices are always better placed in a dedicated network accessible through VPN if you are offsite
1:14 You are using the velcro strap to hold it down so I guess in your case this is a risc-v strap-on ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
After recent events in the Middle East I went and re-read a paper written by Ken Thomson of UNIX and C fame that was written in 1984. It's called: Reflections on Trusting Trust, well worth a read.
I recently bought a Risc-V board that has a custom OS that is used to download actual images to install on it. What else does that custom OS do? Why does it even exist? Why is my Samsung cooker relentlessly trying to connect to wifi in my home? Why does the app for the battery management system in my solar system need to know my GPS coordinates before starting? These and other questions are yet to be answered.
Your BMS is probably configured differently when started in EU.
According to local EU law there are certain restrictions apply to batteries, such as temperature, for example.
I've got an action camera, which won't allow the hardware to heat up above certain point if the location is within EU, however if you change the location to US when on vacation, i'll allow more aggressive heating.
Everything is suspicious, however not everything is dangerous.
@@vitaliisumin64and the cooker wanting wifi is for marketing. It's not hard to work most of this stuff out.
@@vitaliisumin64 :Your BMS is probably configured ..."
How do you know what is in my system or how it's configured or setup? Or even where its located? The problem with people that dismiss what other people say is you haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about, never ask for clarification, then proceed to pontificate about your own myopic world view.
@@vitaliisumin64 all information required should be provided on installation by the technician. a BMS of a solar installation is not a portable device, and it's also handling large amounts of power. It's wildly dangerous to have it guess its location (and therefore power/safety limits) by asking a phone's GPS data.
@@vincei4252 Sorry somebody answered your solar question and you weren't happy with the answer, I guess? Your concerns are real, but if you're not open to replies, why even comment?
I ordered mine when Wendell's video dropped, still waiting for it but I'm excited.
I'll stick it onto the Thin Client I use as an OPNsense router, which is the only feature missing to me :)
I will wait until it is fully open source
If there isn't a way of ensuring that any firmware on the board isn't also secure, there's not much point in that.
People out there calling pikvm expensive? Guys, when pikvm dropped it was SEVERAL TIMES cheaper than almost all other options at the time not to mention that all the other options were closed source.
Ah amazing timing, I was only looking at these on AliExpress the other day. Great review, Jeff.
Def like the idea of a PoE micro kvm I could attach to my homelab servers. Hope they build one.
Just a reminder that Raspberry Pi hardware is highly proprietary
Just a reminder that ALL hardware is highly proprietary
I don't believe I've ever said otherwise :)
There is precious little hardware (even RISC-V chip designs) that is not.
It's also like the Apple comparison he made. It's about trust. With this being RISC-V it would be nice for open source software as it means it is entirely open source.
Outtakes! Woohoo!
ew, the stars on the repo req. i kinda understand the sales part maybe kinda
Yeah, not a fan of gamifying repo stars. It's a strange metric to care about, as it should at most be seen as a general gauge of interest... not anything to do with project health and should definitely not be tied to any kind of KPIs!
and i will star their repo with my whole bot network (like 8 nodes, but shhhhh ;p) just to get the source faster and manifest that attention != quality. How many cool projects aren't starred because they aren't built with (name newest JS framework this week). Fuck starts (with riscv strap-on:P)
@@lis6502 maybe that is what they are hoping for
now i just need a kvm for when my nanokvm locks up
Gonna adopt a wait and see on this one. Too many questions and potential red flags to grab one just yet.
this is finally small enough form-factor to implement my KVM idea - would be a slightly bigger box but have a C13 on one end and a C14 on the other, so could give itself power and also have a "hard-reset" relay inside. Then attach it to the server/PC with a short C13-C14 power cable. I'll still wait until they port PiKVM or Open Source their OS though...
Welcome back Jeff!!!
🎉 ❤🥳🎈
Thanks! Was going to mention something about the baby in this video but just didn't think about it until now haha. Baby's doing great, sleep is about 60% recovered so far, and it's been "fun" being the full-time kid-shuttle while my wife was recovering.
@@JeffGeerling Contratulations for your baby!!! Hugs and smiles for your family =))
I just wish status displays for always on devices would stop using OLED panels and go back to LCD or anything else that won't burn out or fade withing a year or two
It's interesting-some devices seem to ensure the screen refreshes enough it's not a problem, others tend to burn in. This one changes out the bottom portion of the display at least, but I could see the 'NanoKVM' logo burning in over long periods.
At work they use eink displays, so that you can always see the latest update even if the power is removed, or the device breaks, or anything else happens
@@olestrohmissue is those cost around $10 vs $1.50 for OLED.
@@olestrohm eink 4tw
I just finished stuffing my new server shelf - and this video drops. Awesome, I looked at the PiKVM and the price was kinda crazy. Besides, with some short wires, just hanging the NanoKVM off the back of a server is super doable. Really like the idea and method behind this - let's see if they do open source it though.
Yeah, a lot of people are in that same boat; just toss this on like a dongle on any server you want control over, but waiting on the software...
I’ll probably pick up a few of these if they ever go fully open source.
Oh my! Maybe I can now tell Teamviewer to go play with themselves!
No Worries Guys, if Made in US, NSA never put a back door, You can trust Uncle Sammy 😂
If the choice is between USA and China .. anyone right in their mind would choose USA.
nobody said that made in US is better, they ask for opensource
@@marcogenovesi8570 "Chinese software may have malicious software", US is Full of bullshit.
this looks plain spooky. I would like to make sure it isnt phoning home
I'm no lawyer, but I'm 85% sure there's no such thing as "their proprietary OS" (it contradicts the fact that it's very cheap) and it has a LOT of GPL code in it and possibly violating a few of these licenses. The only thing proprietary about it is I guess the RISC-V code optimizations (the ISA is open so no idea what's the deal there) and maybe peripheral IPs (like an HDMI input, hw encoding, USB controller Link & ULPI, ethernet MAC, etc) they may have bought or developed.
This looks like it's got so much potential. If they iron out the bugs, I'd get one. Just need to get _another_ firewall so I can hang it off the back of the firewall.... 🙄
These things are great, I've got a Lite one and some others on the way. Performance hasn't been ideal in my testing but the price difference is crazy. I got mine for £16 before the price increased so it's just so inexpensive. You can also add all the missing features of the Lite to it manually, I just got some optoisolators and resistors and added the power button control to it.
In terms of security it would be ideal if it was open source but to be fair you can just block it from having an outgoing connection to the internet and most of the risk is mitigated.
Yep; many people who would pick one up might not know how to set up an isolated management VLAN, but honestly, for any BMCs that's a good idea (even if you fully trust them!). They have total control over your server!
"At $40, a lot of people will buy one without thinking."
100% me (though the preorder was $50 for some reason.)
I just preordered the "full" one.
The price is just way too low to not buy one.
The price was lower during earlier preorder rounds, they've raised it up to $50 which I believe is their normal MSRP now... hopefully :D
I started writing the script when it was lower, and forgot to fix a couple mentions when I recorded the final version of the script, d'oh!
I have a Pi4 running some critical infrastructure. So I hacked together a solution with a Pi Zero W and an ESPHome-powered smart plug. Configured the Pi4 to use a serial console, and connected that to the Zero W. This gives me console access to the Pi 4 via the Zero W. If I need to power-cycle the Pi 4, I toggle the smart plug from the Zero W.
I don't have true keyboard or mouse access... but with a serial console on the Pi 4, I don't really need that. (And actually, I could hack up keyboard/mouse emulation with the Pi Zero W's micro-USB port, but without video it doesn't make much sense.)
I'd be happy to plug this in as needed to make it easier to fix headless boxes that I manage to break!
The PIKVM guys were being pretty unreasonable with their pricing.
Idk. Their price is for a custom PCB for a project you could DIY for like $30. Its not terrible
How's that? They made the software open-source, which allowed me to build my own PiKVM without paying them a dime. I'd say that's pretty damn reasonable of them, and it makes sense to me that they want to have a high profit margin on their pre-built options.
PiKVM is worth every of it's asking dollar. Not only they've opensourced everything, they were pioneers bringing affordable OOBMs to homelabbers like myself. Heck i can also mail this little sucker whereever it's needed and serve remote administration services (which i did a couple of times). So yeah, go get some priopietary big brand name BMC, ah yeah, they're not selling them outside of their devices ;p
unreasonable? Have you seen the prices of any other IP KVM?
In what way unreasonable?
Selling hardware means a legal requirement for warranty and support. That can cost quite a bit of money.
Are you willing to offer a cheaper product? Where can I buy it?
holding back source code behind a sales target or "like"/star count irks me the wrong way.
Im sure you could monitor outgoing traffic using wireshark and block it
new jeff video 👀
Back in action!
@@JeffGeerling glad to see it!
Never been to a video before any other comments been posted.
Guess today wasn't that day either... lol
Haha you were *so* close-just a few seconds off :D
very good explained. Thank You!
this reminded me i ordered one last month. Or I thought I did. Can’t find an email confirmation anywhere. Really started to doubt my own memory until I found the extremely sketchy feature on their website that lets you look up an order just by entering the associated email address. And yes, I have an order from August 2nd and it’s paid for. Good. Given the complete lack of updates I’m a little concerned tho. I guess it’s not a lot of money.
Wait for this.
Thanks a lot man
I have been waiting on mine for a bit now. Really want them to ship.
Please let us know when they come out with the PoE version and have open sourced the code, then Im sold! :D
Considered picking up one of these things.... If/when I do it'll definititely be locked behind its own VLAN and firewalling/WireGuard. For now I'm going to keep holding off.
im fine with the condition of open source they have put, 95% of people saying that it's a red flag have probably never contributed or audited any code, and the devs need to make back the R&D cost, its upto them what they think the cost of making it open source is
Sounds promising.
Jeff, I think you told something useful for the first time in your life. 😁
This is very promising.
Welcome back Jeff. Baby routine back on menu again lol.
I wouldn't put my bet on open sourcing of the OS. Biggest red flag is they demand stars and number of sales to open source it. Who can guaranteed they will do that when they hit the target? If anything, sounds like MO for scam tbh.
nice.. cost on kvm is important for home users
proprietary OS? jeff, you betrayed us. I close video now.
I still have my ancient lantronix spider kvm. I wish there was custom firmware for that and support for HDMI. Its vga only.
TIL, OpenBMC is a thing. Would love to see a video about it.
Monitor its network usage.
3:29 as if we trust that! xP
Lol fair
Exactly! It's all down to trust-and after everything that's happened in the past 50 years with various software companies... that's a precious commodity that's hard to come by :)
Keyless Vehicle Module?
using nanokvm with hak5 mitm devices could be pretty cool together for red shirt jeff
Very interesting.
I ordered my 5pk and I am just waiting for my order to be fulfilled and shipped..
Sounds Great! Remote CCP control of your computer no matter what............
I checked to see how long they would take to get it here. They don't sell it to the US except direct. Kinda weird. Aliexpress sells it to anywhere except USA and China.
Usually they get it to more distributors as time goes on, but yeah, it's direct shipment which takes a bit longer and is more expensive. I hope if they can solve the issues and get the thing off the ground, they'll get it on Amazon, or at least Aliexpress US.
Im curious when this will ship. I preorderd a while ago.
The whole "we're only going to open source the code if you give us money and attention teehee" thing is an incredibly massive red flag and I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10ft pole.
the moment they opensource it will be cloned for 1/10th of the price on aliexpress as is for Pikvm
That's my guess as to why they didn't start off completely open source, and have a sales target. They probably want to make back the R&D cost on it before 5 other clones are built by other Chinese companies... sadly that's the way of things with many cool bits of gear that just require a PCB + enclosure + some chip inside.
Too late, I've already ordered one.
I wonder when I'll receive it, it's been a month already.
This + open source software = PiKVM collapse
lol not even close
@@marcogenovesi8570 For 90% of all people buying a PiKVM, it is true
@@marcogenovesi8570 A PiKVM is overkill and too expensive for most people
@@marcogenovesi8570 A PiKVM is overkill for most people, the 50$ price point is a no brainer. The software just needs to be open source and vetted.
@@owlmostdead9492 PiKVM is vastly more powerful and extensible/flexible (i.e. you can integrate it with any VPN or modem or other device to make a single independent package). This hardware is bare minium and comparable to Raspberry Zero W. Even with open source it's not competing in the same weight class because it's sacrificing flexibility and power for low price.
couldn't you significantly improve security by putting it on your management vlan, not giving that vlan any direct internet access, and only allowing particular machines to access that vlan (externally using a vpn for access)? - if it doesn't have access to the internet, it shouldn't pose an external threat.
Yep; that's honestly the best way to go for *any* out of band management-since they have total control, they should be very well isolated.
that's how everybody and their dog uses IP KVM devices, which are all proprietary and mostly unsafe garbage that is rarely if ever updated.
Rogahn Grove
Yes!!!!!!!
a closed source Chinese IP KVM, what could possibly go wrong lmao.
Hey Jeff - when plugging into windows, how does this device announce itself? Is there anyway to override its device type so it looks like a standard keyboard and mouse vs some proprietary machine?
This is going to be great till the day that someone gets hacked
I wish they ported OpenBMC to the device?
lots of red flags ... if PiKVM could run on it i might buy one
wait, how come mine was just sent today and yours just arrived? :C
Can you turn on your pc remotely also?
Yes; using the little ATX adapter board, you plug that into your motherboard's front panel header, then plug the front panel connectors onto the little adapter board. Then you can still use the case buttons, but also have access to power over the remote UI.
I use PIKVM
@JeffGeerling How practical would this be as a remote support interface? I.e. "Sorry to hear you're having problems with the Chromebook, but I'm across the country right now. Just take the device out from where we left it; plug the cables in, just like in the photo I sent you; and I'll take a look from here" ....
It would be great for that-in fact, it can be powered off the USB port itself, so you could just plug in USB + HDMI using a couple short cables, and network, then that'd be adequate for temporary remote debugging.
yes that's what IP KVMs are for, remote assistance/remote control
@@marcogenovesi8570 There's a use-case difference between the persistently connected, server-related IPKVM, and an infrequently connected device, booted only when it's used for assisting less technical folks - e.g. once a year, on demand 🙂 Jeff's video was definitely aimed at the former category, and I'm asking about the latter!
@@jonathanmatthews6427 all IP KVM devices let you do IP KVM things.
I'm not sure I could trust someone less than Apple, but still wouldn't trust a random Chinese company either. At least it's good to have options out there.
I recently needed a KVM for work and was surprised I couldn't find a IP KVM that supported dual monitors for under like $3000. If anyone on here has any suggestions, I would love it.
IP KVMs are not meant for remote work but only for management. For actual work it is usually better to use remote desktop software like NoMachine or Parsec
Made in the USA gives a lot more certainty over made in China. We *suspect* that China puts backdoors in devices, but we *know* the USA does.
(laughing in Hikvision cameras)
@@marcogenovesi8570 QED. The Hikvision "backdoor" is widely regarded as an unintended security mistake. Pelco (American) on the other hand....
@@nomen.nescio lol yeah I'm sure all their bad security practices and sending data to chinese cloud services is "widely regarded" by the people "of the industry" as just a mistake, no company could possibly be making "mistakes" on purpose, three letters and cccp have never added "mistakes" into other firewall software
Does it work without connecting the headers mentioned at 4:08?
Yes; only need HDMI plugged in for remote viewing, then HID USB for remote control. You can add on ATX power controls / pwr/act LED if you want but that's not necessary.
Geekworm kvms based on pi cm4 and pi2 zero look good but i havent tried them for now...
Looking at 60-70 euro i think
they are hardware to run PiKVM software, and they are fine
they use gnu os?
Looks very nice, but I guess you could just let your pc running
IP KVM work even if PC has issues or can be used to reinstall windows. It's useful if you have a server in a remote location. If all you have is a PC in your room you don't need this
Yeah, that's the big difference between either a PC located nearby, or a server stashed away somewhere remote. Don't really need the control on the one nearby (especially if you turn it off when you're not near it!).
Where to buy? Can’t find for $40
It's $50 (plus shipping), and right now they're working on a new hardware batch with the fixes for the things I mentioned in this video. Check the link in the description, they don't have the easiest website to navigate (IMO).
I like the features, but the proprietary OS from a Chinese company is a hard no.
Microsoft's Remote Desktop Is not free anymore.
Not 50 bucks.
If you're exposing your ip-kvm to the internet, your the security vulnerability, not the ip-kvm 🤦
I'd assume people are accessing it through a VPN...
The concert is more that this device is acting as a backdoor to your internal network...
@@iv6123 - Jeff said that it's "pretty dangerous to just let one of these things live online, right?" but that was in reference to the software not being open source. I contend that open source or not, your ip-kvm should not be directly internet accessible. He also later touched on the "backdoor" concern.
Blind trust in ANY company is not warranted for several reasons including hiding security issues until after they are fixed, massive data collection, backdoors or future backdoors, etc. I only trust companies where I know and trust every person.
Open source is critical for security related devices.
Operate at your own risk.
A proprietary chinese gadget that can control any computer everywhere in the world? Yeah, what could possibly go wrong.
NSA backdoors should be allowed for anyone in the world to implement lol
the standard procedure for IP KVM is to put them on their own management network and have them accessible only through VPN. It's not like Dell, HP or Lenovo's server management IP KVMs are much more trustworthy
This type of stuff gets my paranoia going... I refuse to buy the cheaper and more plentiful wifi IoT devices exactly for this reason. I don't trust these Chinese companies that seem to sell the same products under 100 different brand names. I'm not buying it without a security layer between it and my network...
Made by chinese and closed source. I'll pass.
Jeff can you help me build a camera based calculator
Yeah... hard, hard, *hard* pass on this one. I'd almost trust them more if they were just keeping it closed and not making weird promises.
I can kind of understand the business argument if a software firm wants to get some sales in before they reveal source. But a _network hardware_ firm being noncommittal about source code? Nope. Way too weird.
It not easy job. Required a lot of users... to get some feedback plus cheap is not job...
Trusting ios?? Funny...
Never said I trusted them, just that it's a matter of trust ;)
Made in the USA, which will soon be run by a fascist, what could possibly go wrong?
Closed source, exposes my system to the web, and made in China? Hard pass.