Bonded vs Floating neutral. portable generator as power back up
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- In this video I want to share what I have learned so far about the differences between bonded and floating neutral and why using a bonded neutral portable generator as emergency generator to power up a house (bricks and sticks house) back feeding a breaker using an interlock may be in conflict with NEC regulations, if proper measures are not taken.
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This is by far the best and most simple Explanation of the Floating Neutral Concept Ever.
BRAVO 👏🏻
I have read my eyeballs 👀 red figuring it out the hard way. Your drawing ✍️ makes it so easy!
Hi Mike, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad it helped you.
Absolutely agree. I thought the same exact thing! I’ve watched multiple videos, but that simple whiteboard illustration made it perfectly understandable.
Agreed... my headache is now going away. Thumbs Up on the video... Much Appreciated !!
Very accurate information. If you connect the generator to an RV, put the jumper back in. RV s are not bonded. In the terms I use as an electrical designer to clarify what NEC says is “Separately Derived System”. Or “Non Separately Derived System”. If you have a transfer switch and it only transfers the hots, then Non. If the transfer switch transfers the neutral and hots, then Separately.
Best description on the internet. Thank you!
Great video! Fast, easy to understand, simple and to the point. Thank you.
Glad it helped!
I agree with the many other comments that your video perfectly explained the topic in a most understandable manner. Thanks a bunch!👍
You're very welcome!
Good job explaining the bonded and floating neutrals.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much for your information, my circuit breaker on my generator kept tricking, and I couldn’t understand why you explain it to me. Thank you so much.
Thank you for checking the video
Thank you for this information. The most simple, brief and straightforward explanation I have found .
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, great video and explanation. I've been delving into this topic recently because when I plugged our new travel trailer into my generators, it indicated an open ground and I was a little perplexed. My generators can be operated in parallel with a parallel cable kit and this explains why generators that can be paralleled are not neutral bonded; because if they were, you would have two bonding points, one in each generator. The solution is a neutral bonding plug that is plugged into one generator only. You can buy them for about $15 but I'm a tinkerer so I built my own for about $5. BTW, RV's are not neutral bonded so it's done at the generator, or shore power if the campground provides power.
Stevemark2183 I'm glad this video helped you.
Great video. Only thing I would add is that you're suppose to place a label on the generator indicating that it has been converted to a floating neutral generator. Like you my generator is used just for connecting to house electrical panel (with interlocked breakers). I have the Hughes grounded neutral plug available in case I ever need to use the generator as a stand alone power source.
Very good observation. I did but not shown, like here in my Honda generator, min 6:05 ua-cam.com/video/VCUxATuC3d8/v-deo.html. Thank you for the feedback Dane, very much appreciated.
That was the best explanation I've seen. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
It would be nice if they made a locking switch or breaker on the generator to switch from bonded to floating to make it easier.
Agree, thankfully that is a cheap and quick DIY install.
Re: if they made a switch from bonded to floating to make it easier
Better believe it; I agree; they don't but you can!
diy a toggle switch that will bypass from bonded to a floating neutral as needed.
But caution: Only problem is SAFETY; should someone come along and attempt to us the Gen for say power tools
or with an extension cord not knowing the Gen is no longer a neutral bond then they get electrocuted.
So this is doable alright but may cause injury or death.
Yet when using an interlock device with a portable Gen it is necessary to convert the neutral bond to a Floating Neutral
in order to safely connect to the home breaker panel.
Who knew?
You can use a ground plug and just pop it into one of the 120v outlets on the generator, and voila, it's bonded.
Something as important as this should always require tools to change to stop your drunk neighbour just flipping a switch on something he doesn’t even understand or couldn’t be bothered reading the instructions on.
Excellent Video! Thanks for getting to the point and making it easy to understand! Well done Sir!
Thank you for your comment.
I've had questions you answered them Thank you, i put a 60 amp sub panel in my basement and left the ground and neutral bars separate that gets fed from my generator to a 30 amp breaker
Good video. Technically you don't have to remove the jumper. You can just put electrical tape around the side that was bonded with ground and tuck it back in.
Good point, even better. Thanks for the comment.
@@BUTTEWORKS Thank you for your video and info ✌️❤️
Excellent vid brother! I had already performed this mod on my Champion by watching some VERY long and mind numbing videos. Wish I would have found this perfect explanation first! Thanks man.
Glad it helped!
Very good video. Our portable genset is wired into plug box for house worked ok with only light 120vac circuits during break-in period. Today notched it up to include a 240 circut when my deep well pump kicked in it threw the breaker that is located on the portable genset. Everything was as usual, with voltage switch set to 120-240 vac. Guess will look into the dyamo cover to determine if genset is bonded. Great easy to understand video explanation. Will leave the ground connected just remove from neutral post and reconnect back to ground screw so its there in case it's needed ....
😁👍
Good luck with your troubleshooting. make sure you 240 breaker is scaled for the amperage demanded by the well pump. Some motors have a longer start, enough to trip the breaker with the inrush current.
@@BUTTEWORKS the panel where the plug box feeds into has a 35 A breaker. This is a remote panel which feeds into the main house panel via 8 /4 feeding thru a 50 A breaker. If your wondering this circuit used to be for a hot tub. The 35 A breaker which snapped is the breaker on the generator itself.
Genset is 4850 surge, 3850 run which is fine for the 1 h.p. deep well pump according to charts perused. Appreciate your reply.
Will let ya know what we find in the dynamo...thanx.
@@hokehinson5987 I doubt your issue was with the bonded neutral on the generator. Well pumps pull a lot of amps. You likely went over the rated amperage on the breaker when the well kicked on. Turn off every breaker in your main except the well and see if the pump still kicks off the breaker.
Great video. The first video I have seen that simplifies the concept of floating neutral. I did not understand this before. Now I need to see if my Costco tri-fuel generator needs any tweaking. Thanks..
Thank you for your feedback, glad it was helpful.
curious if you floated the neutral on the Firman T07571? I'm considering this and using an interlock to my house panel. Thoughts?
Yes, I have the same generator and it’s bonded not a floating neutral.
Excellent, thanks. This is what I have been trying to understand.
Thank you Edward, I'm glad it helped you.
I agree with your statement that we should all try to help each other.✌
Thank you so much!!!
I had been looking for this info for a long time, and now I understand that concept!
Glad it was helpful!
Nicely done, short and to the point! Thanks for sharing
I’m glad you liked it. Thank you.
I'll echo other comments in that this is a great, simple explanation. My WEN GN875i inverter gen comes factory with a floating neutral which since I am using it for whole house backup (via backfeed with interlock) needs no modification. I thought this is correct but your video confirms it. I need to make a plug with neutral and ground connected to plug in should I ever use it as a standalone.
The Voigts, thank you for your feedback. I'm glad that the video helped you.
Finally! Thank you! Information i needed that i can understand!
I’m glad you found it useful. Thank you for checking the video.
Your the best artist ever! Thanks for the explanation, I found this out later than sooner
LOL, I'm sure some of my fellow countrymen such as Pablo Picasso, Francisco Goya, or Diego Velazquez... would be "facepalming" themselves. Well, maybe Picasso not so much :).
Thank You. Straight to the point. Well Done.
Thank you for checking the video.
Very good job on your video!! Greatly appreciate. You explained very well. Thank you
Jesse Harvey, I'm glad it helped you. Thank you for the positive feedback.
Some generators may have a dedicated floating neutral terminal, while the others are all designated as bonded. The larger WEN gensets seem to all have this on an L14-30R plug, which most transfer switches use.
Thanks for sharing this. I was looking to buy a Honda EB10000 generator, but the manual specifically says that the generator cannot be hooked up the a house electrical system because of the bonded neutral situation.
Now you know the trick, Glad it helped you.
I have a Honda EB6500x about 15 years old. I removed the bonding wire from the generator head and now use 4wire lead back to my sub panel, that is not bonded. It works flawlessly!
Great video explaining this subject , awesome job
Thank you, I'm glad you like it.
Best explanation of this topic on the internet by far. Thank you.
What I’m still trying to understand is….if I keep the Gen as a bonded neutral, while powering the home via an interlock setup, what’s the worst that can happen? Fire? Death? Damage to main panel and/or Gen? I’ve yet to hear an explanation of what could happen if not NEC compliant in this situation nor have I seen or heard of anyone having a problem in this situation. Thanks again!
Hi jayortiz8617, most likely nothing if all your the consumers in your house and the electrical system are in good order. Accidents will happen depending on how bad your electrical system is, or how bad a certain device is damaged, ground failure, damage wire isolations etc. So the extend of the damage depends. of many factors.
Sometimes nothing happens. Other times the neutral current returns to the generator on the ground wire instead of the dedicated neutral wire because a parallel path (2 bonds) is created. The GFCI's of the generator may trip causing power of the 240V outlet to the house to be disconnected making it un usable for home backup power.
Thank you !! Your explanation is very thorough!!!
Glad it was helpful!
I put a 30 amp switch on my neutral wire. and placed it on my control panel. That way if i need to hook my generator up to my house, I turn it "off" which gives me a floating ground so only one bonded in my power panel. If I turn it "on" then I can use it as a normal generator , not hooked up to my home.
So if i have the 50 amp plug going to my breaker panel for whole house scenario, and it has been changed to a floating system, how do i use the other outlets for other single items.
@@robertmclean8746 When you change over your generator to a floating system, the other outlets on your generator will be using the neutral and ground from your house as long as the 50 amp cord is plugged in to the generator and connected to your breaker box. If you have GFI outlets on your generator and you do not switch your generator over to a floating system, you'll notice that they pop all the time. That's because they are trying to use the generator neutral and the house neutral. That leads to fluctuating current at the GFI outlet and they pop...they're just doing their job.
Can you put an on/off toggle switch in line with that bond wire, and lengthen it so that it is easily accessible, to toggle bonding on and off so that you can switch the generator from backfeeding scenarios and standalone scenarios easily?
Yes, many people do it that way.
Well it's easier than that to explain really. Electrical codes aside.... You only want the ground and the neutral bonded at the place it's grounded to the Earth. In your house this is at your service panel or your primary disconnect.
The reason for this is simple ..... If they were connected anywhere else it's possible to carry part of your neutral current on the ground wire... All the time, which could energize everything that's on that ground wire and shock people. You can have a small voltage on your neutral wire because of the voltage drop on that wire due to resistance.
So when you connected to a house you want the neutral and the ground to be bonded only at the house of service panel, along with the house.
When you have your neutral and ground bonded at the generator then the generator can be grounded at it. The gfci feature on receptacles wont work unless bonded. It has to be capable of carrying current on the ground wire in order for it to trip. This is really the main reason generators come with a bonded neutral today. They used to not.
When your connected to things not grounded...insulated Power tools.....it doesnt matter much really. In fact....if the neutral is not grounded to earth.... Then a hot wire will not shock YOU...if you touch it. There's no way the path can be completed if the neutral isn't bonded to ground, and the generator grounded. (Just sitting on the ground is enough to ground it). Makes you say why did they even think they needed the gfci in the first place? I'm not sure a Gfci add anything to a generator use when you have the possibility of not bonding the neutral .
For other things you might plug in that do get grounded to Earth by sitting on it or such, then having the generator grounded and bonded is a safety feature, and the GFCI can be worth something safety-wise too.
Best demonstration and explanation! Thank you. If my generator is bonded is that why all my gfci receptacles are blinking red and not working?
Thank you for your comment. No, they should not blink for that. Without being and expert, I understand that if neutral is bonded to the ground in the generator, that means that the current in the CFGI returning from the neutral could leak through the ground since you have two parallel neutral-ground connection. Definitely install a switch in the neutral to ground bond or make it floating all together if you are planning to use the generator to power up your house only.
50 amp are not GFI protected o need to unbond
Very well done, appreciate the simplicity.
Thank you Mark Leaver, very much appreciated.
Thank you so much for your Easy to Understand video 👍❤️
Save me a BiG headache 😂👍
Just Subscribed
Thanks for the sub!
Excellent video and explanations. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Very nice. Well done!
Thank you very much!
great explanation. thanks for taking the time
My pleasure Thomas G
Great explanation - thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
An interesting situation was discovered by another UA-cam channel. If you have a bonded neutral generator and your extension cord losses its neutral wire, your ground wire will act as the neutral and all is fine. If you then unbond your generator, you can set your house on fire because without the neutral the voltage can spike to 240v on your 120v circuits. Somehow you must inspect your extension cords to ensure they are working properly. Just because you follow the code does not mean your house will not catch fire. The NEC does not cover extension cords that can degrade over time. Invest in a multimeter and learn how to check your extension cords before using them.
What is happening is the power is feeding over from the other hot leg and on to the neutral in the house.
Thank you for the comment. Extension cords and the outdoor wall sockets worth checking once in a while.
Yes, I saw that also and it is a concern. Now I wish someone would post a video on how to mitigate this potential fire hazard even if such a failure did occur in an extension cable.
@@randydicotti3975 I don’t think anybody knows how to test a 240 volt extension cord short of using a multimeter. There are ways to test 120 volt outlets with an outlet tester. I guess you could rig up a Y cable to 240 v outlet and use an outlet tester. I think as of right now, the average Joe is out of luck. His house will burn. Invent a device and have the Consumer Product Safety Commission require them on new generators.
It depends how the panel is wired. If the bonding takes place there, then OK. In most of Europe bonding is done at the meter. Then you put your changeover switch and choose utility or generator. No need to remove the bonding then.
Most of the generators I have seen ( and the 2 i own) have an external ground connection on the panel here in the UK. They are not internally bonded.
Problem is if you are using an unbonded generator with a transfer switch in places like the UK, the earth is NOT IN THE BOX ( consumer unit) but on the tails coming into the meter, say like say with central heating which nowadays have a computer... IT knows this and will not work as it needs an earth or it will not t work as a safety design. So the Generator has to remain bonded.
If your using a transfer switch in which the circuits to be powered have been moved into the transfer switch from the main panel, when running in generator mode there is no longer a connection to the main panel bonded neutral for the circuits being powered. This means that the generator would be your primary point of disconnect when running those circuits in generator mode and the neutral should remain bonded in the generator. If you do not use a transfer switch but directly back feed to the main panel then the generator should be modified to a floating neutral. Not a electrician but proper neutral configuration would depend on the mechanism by which the generator is connected the circuits being powered.
so it would be best to just add a longer bonding wire with a switch that you can turn bonding on/off as needed. but good vid thanks for the info.
Agree, that would be the way to do it if you are planning using the generator in different applications.
yep, i agree, even I understand what took place, but the one thing I still haven't seen or heard is what does it hurt to have two bonded instead of onel? Honest question on my part since I don't know why, but I know how now anyway.
Imagine you have a short to ground, that means neutral is hot, that means the neutral in your generator would be hot but since it is floating, the current will go to the ground on the panel. Is you neutral is bonded, now your generator frame is hot. No bueno. Thank you for checking the video.
Thank you brother
Great explanation but what if you ran a wire from the generators grounding lug to the same ground rod your panel uses, does this still require a floating neutral?
I actually run the ground from the generator to the ground bar in the panel as well as the neutral. Just make sure they are floating in the generator side. You need both ground and neutral from the generator connected to the ground neutral on the panel.
Great information, thank you. I am installing a 240 volt 30-Amp inlet to my house and wiring it to a 30-Amp breaker on my main panel, I now know what I need to do to make my system safe. If I disconnect the ground bonding strap on the generator, will it affect the GFCI operation of 110-volt receptacles? the 30-Amp receptacle is not GFCI. Thanks.
Yes, floating neutral are safe to use only to power a house. If you are planning to use the sockets in the generator in other applications not related to powering a house you need to make it bonded again. or you can install a switch to open or close the neutral in the generator.
Great video. Thank you!
Thank for your comment Hubercats
Excellent and simple explanation. I have watched SEVERAL videos and this is easiest to understand. A question for you. Have you ever opened up a Black Max generator? I have the 7K version. When I take the cover off, it looks like all I have to do to convert from Bonded to Floating is the same process you showed but the wires are different color. I believe the Yellow/Green wire would stay in place but the White jumper wire from the bolt on the casing (with the Yellow/Green wire) to the bolt for the White wires would be removed. Can you add any comments?
Thank you for your comment, yes, you just need to remove the neutral (white), ground (yellow-green) can stay connected.
Thank you
You're welcome, thank you for checking the video and commenting.
Great video. I have a Honda EU7000 inverter generator. It has a floating neutral. I'll be attaching it to my electrical panel through an interlock switch. My question is... 1. With this set-up do I need to ground the frame of the generator to a ground rod? 2. If I use the generator to power extension cords for power tools, etc... do I need to connect the generator frame to a ground rod? Thanks!
To feed up the house you don't need to ground the generator since the house is grounded already. If you use the generator to power extension cords you would need to bond it again. No rod needed.
If you have a bonded generator with a transfer switch that breaks/transfers the neutral conductor as well as the hot wires do you leave the bonding wire on the generator?
I'm not familiar how transfer switches work.
Would you still need to convert to a neutral if you have something like an interlock or transfer switch since you are turning off the main house breaker?
Floating neutral, yes, the fact that main breaker is shut does not changes the configuration, the bond it is still present in the main panel. So only one bond needed.
Thanks for this video. I've been trying to understand neutrals a little better but there's one thing I'm confused on. I have a line of 10/3 (no neutral) that runs from my garage to power an EVSE car charger to my panel on a 40 amp circuit. Were I to theoretically backfeed the system, would a bonded generator be needed, since there's no double bonding occuring at both the panel and the generator?
I don't know how would that work without understanding your set up better. In such a case I would ask a certified electrician for advice. Thank you for you comment.
Most of the generators I have seen ( and the 2 i own) have an external ground connection on the panel here in the UK. They are not internally bonded.
Problem is if you are using an unbonded generator with a transfer switch in places like the UK, the earth is NOT IN THE BOX ( consumer unit) but on the tails coming into the meter, say like say with central heating which nowadays have a computer... IT knows this and will not work as it needs an earth or it will not t work as a safety design. So the Generator has to remain bonded.
To make my generator be able to run my central heating in the event of a power failure work i had to install an earth within the transfer switch back to the generators exterior connection and earth the transfer switch connection.
I'm not familiar with UK electrical system but the US since neutral and earth are bonded in the main panel you just need to carry the earth though the transfer switch.
@@BUTTEWORKS Here in the UK the Earth and neutral are bonded at the main incomer (Before the Meter) BEFORE they even get to the consumer unit.
Live and neutral are fed the box 25mm tails ( consumer unit) and a separate earth which comes of the earth / neutral block.
Nice Video!
Glad you enjoyed it
If you are not connecting a transfer switch to the main panel but to a sub panel where neutrals and grounds are on separate bars , do you still require that this alteration to your generator be made?
Check with a multimeter if both neutral and ground are bonded in the subpanel. they may be in different bars but if they are bonded in they main panel, they are considered bonded so the generator should be floating so once it is connected its neutral bond with the neutral via the main panel
So to test with your meter you put it on continuity mode then the neutral side ( left ) and also into ground slot if continuity ( beeping ) is found you have the bonded style generator, do I have that correctly? thanks for any help you can give with this
That is correct.
You only need to unbond generator if the 30 & 50 amp are GFi protected
Suppose you want to use the generator to power your house and also when not using it for the house for other things like powering power tools pumps and the like. Now you need the generator bonded. How about cutting the neutral wire in the middle and connecting an on off switch to each end of the generator neutral so you can disconnect and connect the neutral as needed depending on the use of the generator at the time.
Yes, that is a way to do it but I only use the generator to power my house as stand by generator.
So I have a portable generator for which I use extension cords, it is not hooked up to my electrical panel. I have learned that it is not bonded, but rather the floating neutral type. Isn't it supposed to be bonded for the way I am using it? It seems like if a device has a fault, if my generator is not bonded, the breaker will not trip and everything is energized leading to the possibility of an electrical shock. Isn't that correct? So should I go in there and add a wire to the neutral and ground lugs to bond them?
You are correct, if you use it with extension cords for tools etc, it should be bonded. You can find out easy with a multimeter. In continuity mode check if neutral in a plug and the frame are shorted (bonded).
@@BUTTEWORKS does the generator have to be running when this test is performed?
@@BUTTEWORKS My generator is only 3,400 watts continuous and is 120 volt only. So it cannot be connected to a panel. So I'm wondering why this generator doesn't come from the factory bonded. Any explanation?
@@BillSmith-rx9rm Most generators are bonded for the most part. Did you buy it new?. maybe somebody changed it. If not who know the reason. Now if it is floating neutral it should have a label somewhere saying that.
Hello, if wanting to use the generator as a stand alone unit - not connected to the as opposed to the house panel - instead of reinstalling the bonding jumper (what you saved with the zip ties), could you instead just plug in something like a Hughes Autoformers Ground Neutral Plug? I think, but am not sure, this would return the generator to a bonded neutral configuration. You would lose access to one of the outlets as a result. However, this would eliminate having to take the cover off and reinstalling the jumper, saving time, and requiring no tools.
Mark you are 100% right, and some people just add a switch in the front panel to switch from floating to neutral. Since this generator will be used only and exclusively to power up a house in my case this was the easiest way. If I would use it to power up tools on a i.e. job site, I would definitely have added a switch.
@@BUTTEWORKS Except when you periodically start it for maintenance purposes. Unless it's always plugged into the inlet connected to a breaker, it will not be bonded.
@@allenjones3998 That is a really good point. Definitelly a reason to install a switch. Thank you for the comment.
Do I need to ground the generator to the ground rod
The generator is grounded already via the breaker panel into the ground rod so no need.
If you are backfeeding your main panel through a two pole circuit breaker, with the main breaker off, why is the backfeed breaker not now considered the main? Why would the system not be compliant? Neutral and ground from the generator are landed on the main panel buss bars, just like the main service line. So your first point of disconnect would become the backfeed breaker.
I can see this becoming important if you have a transfer switch in the system...
No if ground and neutral are bonded in the generator. You would have two locations where neutral and ground are bonded, breaker panel and generator and according to code you must have just one. You don't want to have a short to neutral anywhere in the house while powered with the generator, which it means short to ground in panel (neutral al ground are bonded there) while having the neutral bonded to ground in the generator because the frame of the generator (connected to ground) would be hot. Hope that clarify the point. Thank you Thomabb for checking the video.
I'm currently trying to backfeed to my panel through my dryer outlet but it's not working...im taking all necessary precautions. Is this something that might help?
I turn my main off, im getting power at the plug...the dryer breaker is on, but I get nothing. I'm genuinely curious if this would be the answer im looking for
I know some people do it that way but I can't but recommend an interlock or transfer switch. Specially the first is very affordable and safe.
That’s a really bad idea using your dryer back fead ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
I just purchased an inverter generator and plan on backfeeding power to my house by an unused dryer plug in the utility room. I plan on doing this mod to my generator. my question is 2 parts 1st my generator has a 4 wire 50 amp plug and my house has a old 3 wire recepticle what is the best way to make up this cord? and my second question is once I convert my generator to a floating neutral are there any risks if I was to use this generator out somewhere else like camping or up north or with extension cords running power tools etc...
If you use the generator in camping applications it will work but for safety, in some conditions may give be unsafe, damaged tools or appliances, you should bond it again or install a switch to toggle between floating and bonded. About the dryer back feed, I'm not a fan of it and I do not recommend it. Just the cable to the plug with the prongs exposes give me the chills. Your receptable have three wires because the neutral and ground and already bonded in the panel. I can but recommend an inexpensive interlock system, way safer. I think of any family member having to connect the generator by themselves if I'm not home. If they turn on the generator with the cable connected to it and the breaker on, the end side of the cable with exposed prongs, the one going into the dryer, will be energized. Huge hazard.
Your dryer receptacle is a 3 prong, which means you do not have a way to connect your house ground to your generator through the cord.
Bad idea using dryer plug
Would it be legal to install a switch that would interrupt the neutral bond?
I don't know but a lot of folks do it that way. Makes sense so you have both option with the toggle of a switch.
From someone who knows very little about electrical but pondering a portable generator with an inlet box and interlock kit to power my house during power outages, what are the possible ramifications of not doing this and leaving the wires as is? Thanks in advance!
If there would a short in any of your appliances small enough not to trip the breaker, the frame of the generator would be hot. If your touch it you would get shocked.
@@BUTTEWORKS OK. Great to know. Thank you!
If we unbond the neutral to power the home as described, can you continue to use the other outlets on the generator while it's connected to the home safely?
As far as you run all 4 cables from the generator to the panel where they are bonded I don't see why not.
@@BUTTEWORKS I ask because I have a fan I run off a 120v outlet while using the generator to also power my house. Will the fan outlet be good since it's on the generator
@@JonnyWhitlatch I'm not electrician so I can't give you a solid answer. That is a good question though. I think it is safe as far as the generator is connected to the main panel where ground and neutral are bonded. Definitely not safe to use it if the floating neutral generator is not connected to the panel. Meaning with not safe, that it will work but if the appliance would fail it may lead to an unsafe electrical system.
The GFI plug must be neutral bond to work
If I was hooking up a generator directly to my gas furnace (not through the breaker panel), I would need the generator to be neutral bonded?
Should be bonded. Any device you plug directly to the generator, keep it bonded.
What if your connecting the generator to a manual transfer switch like a reliance controls ? I was told it was safe to do that without messing with the generators wires
In that case you don't need to mess with the generator neutral but as you can see it is not that complicated. the installation is also simpler. With a transfer switch you will have only limited circuits to power up unless you get a full pannel transfer switch. Both are alight to me.
@@BUTTEWORKS So, just to be clear - a manual "transfer switch" will unbound the neutral ground from a portable generator and utilize a single neutral ground (in the panel). True? And the corallary - an "interlock" on the panel WILL require you to unbound the portable generator neutral ground (elimanate two neutral grounds). Also, true?
@@mikebever2546 The way I understand a transfer switch yes, it is true. Transfer switch transfer the neutral as well. Said that, this is my own research, I'm no electrician so double check with one.
The newer reliance manual transfer switches do not switch the neutral. They require floating neutral generator setups. Not sure about the older ones gotta find a manual.
Is this a must do? I just bought a predator 9000 and planning a system to run it into my panel .
For safety reasons I would do it if all you want to do with the generator is run the house via an interlock.
@@BUTTEWORKS ok great thanks!!
Question: If you convert to a floating neutral and are plugged into your house using an interlock kit. Can you still plug extension cords into the generator to power something else?
You can and it will work but it will not "code" safe. many people install a switch in the neutral to ground to switch between floating to bonded neutral.
The type of interlock switch will determine the configuration of your generator.
Bravo !! Well Done !!! However.....ALTHOUGH......BUT..... this is one of many different connections based on what could be used for every different scenario....... so please ask a licensed electrician like myself for best SAFEST PRACTICES !!! People DIE from simple mistakes......... If you ever seen a "Lineman" take an axe to smash the meter off the house because of back feeding.......Need I say more ???? "Bonding""Grounding""Isolated Grounding""Grounded""Separately derived Supply""Single Phase,Three Phase""Marine/Boats/Trailers"... All make large and different connections............and where the Heck is the Ground rod & H20 pipe connections(watch out for Phone & Cable services as well)......this is why we charge our fair rates......Minium of 8,000hours to test....I have in excess of 93K hours......I understand very well, but humbled enough to know, I can make mistakes too/still....ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK YOUR WORK !!!!
Hi John, thank you for your comment. Agree with you about the safety. Regarding the line man and the axe, I understand what you say and that is why having an interlock device is so important. Every time I use the interlock in my panel and open the main breaker, I make sure with a multimeter that the breaker is open and not suck close even thought the lever moves to open... just not to have a lineman knocking my door with an axe.
Why do they make/sell small portable inverter generators that are floating neutral and only have normal household outlets and would only be used seperately?
I guess they are to power up a few appliances, TV, fridge etc...directly to them.
@@BUTTEWORKS but shouldn't they have a bonded neutral in that case?
@@xHICKORYx I'm not familiar with inverter generators. I will check in Harbour Freight next time their small inverters and see if theirs are floating.
@@xHICKORYx that's what I am trying to find out the answer to as well "why arent the small ones not bonded"
funny how someone can use "stick man" for illustration's and be just as effective as the high dollar software is.
Effective is not always the prettiest but works.. Thanks for your comment.
So the question is what can happen if I leave the generator bonded as it comes from the factory to feed the house? So in this case I have 2 bonded points in the generator and in the electric panel. I am just curious to know the possible outcome of this.. thanks
If all what you connect to you house is in good order electrically speaking, nothing, but if there would be an issue with a short to ground or neutral or something like that the generator could become an electrical hazard for the operator.
Also if you have a faut in the house the breaker will not trip on your gen.
Can u add a switch Togo between floating and bonded ?
Yes, absolutelly
Im surprised, it sounds like a lot of portable generators are bonded N but my Westinghouse is floating which means I dont have to do anything to it.
You are right, actually Westinghouse market their generators for power back up for houses, so already come floating. Westinghouse are great generators btw.
@@BUTTEWORKS ohh okay, I got the Wgen3600C on Amazon on sale for $267. That was the only reason I went with that brand but it seems well built and that explains why they would do floating N.
After making the generator a floating neutral do you have to ground it?
No, the main panel is grounded already and both neutral and ground are bonded there.
Thank you..
What is the generator you have? Look like champion??
Question? If I connect my generator to my house it need to remove the neutral wire??
That one is a Champion
You should remove the bond neutral to ground.
Thank you brother 👍
why are you modifying a Champion generator that already comes from the factory with a floating neutral?
Not this one.
Why? What does it matter if it's bonded?
It's due to safety reasons as stated by code. As I explained in the video you can incur on a electrical safety violation by having neutral bonded to ground in two different points in a certain system (i.e. you house-generator)
@@BUTTEWORKS
What difference does it make if a wire is grounded only on one end or both ends?
How does that interfere with the GFCI?
@@originaLkomatoast neutral currents would be shared by your ground conductors (called an EGC or Equipment Grounding Conductor), which creates some hazardous conditions.
I bonded my generator as I primarily use extension cords however I heard bonding a portable generator creates power spikes that could be damaging to sensitive equipment/appliances anyone experience that?
Hi StrongManMattt, I don't think bonding a generator, which is they way they are wired for the most part, creates power spikes. You can look at the harmonic distortion of your generator which it is a parameter that shows, how spiky is you generator. THD Total Harmonic Distortion of 6% or bellow is ideal. Most none inverter generators are around 10%. What I do is I have three Cyberpower UPS where I connect my computers, router, modem, TV, stereo, and other electronics. That is a great filter and power back up. Check in the description of the video where I have an affiliate link to the UPS. Never had an issue and I have run the generator in my house for days.
@@BUTTEWORKS Good to know thanks for the response.
@@BUTTEWORKS That may be (no harm), but spike damage may not be instantaneous and degrade either the appliance or the surge protector over time, until it/they fail. That's why surge protector has a light indicating whether the protector is still active/alive or has died after too many spikes over a long period.
@@raywu7933 I didn't though of that, good point though. Thank you for the info.
Content might be good, but TURN OFF THE MUSIC.
Great video
Thank you very much, I'm glad you liked it.
Why don't they just have a switch?
I believe it is safety, since you use the generator in one way or another, if you forget to flip the switch and are using the generator in the wrong configuration it could be dangerous. This is more for "advance" users.
@@BUTTEWORKS I just fixed my Dads old building site generator. It has a 220v and a 110 socket. It is a floating neutral. I am not sure whether to of how to bond the neutral as the 220v is basically a transformer winding that is centre tapped at halfway to give 110v.
Antidote21984. I’m no expert in this subject. You may have to ask a pro. I would bridge neutral to ground in the transformer if your goal is turn it into a bonded generator