Permaculture Keyline Water Systems: Tom Ward @ Wolf Gulch Farm
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- Permaculture Elder Tom Ward takes us on a 10 minute animated tour of Wolf Gulch Farm in Southern Oregon, USA. It was designed using Permaculture principles and laid out using Keyline patterning. Tom's narrated journey explores water supply and storage, soil building, wind and air drainage, cropping, and an enlightened perspective on the watershed and the future of farming in harmony with natural forces. This video was produced by Andrew Millison as part of the course content for his online Permaculture Design Course and Advanced Design Practicum, taught through the Horticulture department at Oregon State University.
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Tom explained that the reason is there was an exceptional drought and they needed to go to the extreme measure of lining the pond to conserve every drop of water to irrigate the farm. It is not ideal to line the ponds, but was a survival necessity for Wolf Gulch Farm.
It is better leave the water to percolate into and replenish the local aquifer, and to minimise evaporation.
Yeah. I was thinking the same. There shouldn't be a liner, it seems that would impact the hydrology of the area. I would think with subsoil percolation it would increase the moisture level downstream which in turn would affect also the surrounding area forests which would in turn modify the microclimate of the area.
@@dietrevich In the ideal situation on a hydrologic pattern level, I agree with you. But on the level of having an economically viable farm, the liner enables them to have enough water to grow crops and support their operation financially. So I think it is a necessary sacrifice for the viability of their operation.
bullshit (: let it go into the soil, and get it back later
@@em-jd4do The geology does not allow for that on this farm. If it soaks down into the subsoil, it does not become available here by a shallow well lower down in the watershed. It is either line the pond or lose the water in their case. So they could do the more ecologically and hydrologically friendly thing and just soak the water into the landscape, but then they would not have a farm and income, which would mean moving to some other place where land is more expensive. So it's really easy for everyone on this comment thread to say what these people should do, but letting the water soak into the ground instead of using a liner basically means the displacement of these people from this land, making them economic refugees, where they are currently making an income from farming in a very marginal landscape.
I love these videos because of the birds eye pictures you insert. It really helps to understand the layout and purpose of every feature.
I love how enthusiastic he is! This is so exciting and the overhead mapping really helped me to really grasp the concept of keyline design!
Thank you Mr. Liu. I have been following your work and have utmost respect for you and the vision of worldwide reforestation and watershed restoration that you articulate. I have another Keyline video that I created about a site in S. Oregon with unlined ponds: Permaculture Keyline Water Systems: Seven Seeds Farm with Don Tipping . I would love for you to see that one as well. Thanks for the expansive inspiration you provide.
Thanks Pillbug. One part of the footage that I edited out is Tom talking about the longevity of the liner. He said that it is 40 millimeter plastic, and the rule of thumb is 1 year per mil as far as UV degradation, so Tom was estimating that the liner should last 30-40 yrs. I believe it's been in for 10-12 years already.
Andrew
I wonder how that liner is holding up.
looks amazing, one thing to take into account is shading for your ponds. that'll help keep less evaporation happening.
Tree roots damage your pond bottom, increasing leakage.
Depends on the tree species. There are safe options for most climates. Also depends on the position relatively to the dam of the pond.
I love just drifting through youtube videos randomly. You can come across the most amazing videos at times and this video is amazing! I had no idea this was done, and it makes so much sense! Thanks very much for sharing it. I'm very happy to have found it and learned something worthwhile today.
Thanks for the sensational information 😀I am also doing this on my land in the Uintah Mountains. You can see my channel "off grid living"
Great job Tom. The way you speak is very understandable and enthusiastic. Keep it up.
What a beautiful land. I wish I live there!
This is LIFE! This awsome example of growth, plants, water, sunlight gives the world hope. Sol, tierra, luna needs more people like you. Asante
this is beyond amazing. you are heavensent. Mr Millison.
Wonderful!!! This is so informative, and so well explained 💚💛🧡❤️🍐🍋🍊🍎🎵 Thank you so much
I was happy to see this permaculture expert unabashedly using pond liners. He seems thrilled about those ponds.
I've seen Sepp Holtzer's alternative to pond lining in Portugal which takes very fine clay and rolls it with a heavy roller adding layer after layer until it is basically impermeable. This is a pretty labor intensive method but that is only during the construction phase. The resultant ponds are lovely and have reeds surrounding the edges and lots of living things. I'd guess that the oxygen levels are very different in the unlined ponds.
I agree John - the ponds in this video don't look very alive like Sepp's ponds do.
Since I’ve been studying Regenerative Agriculture, this system looks like it’s vegan
I have worked with both Tom Ward and Sepp Holzer. Challenges ought be explored as learning opportunty. Sites are sites, clients are clients. Having been to Wolf Gulch Ranch in person, and worked with Ward on the projects, and working with Holzer on two projects including my own, id suggest that anyone with dissenting opine and conflicting design theology get off there tall horsey and talk face time. Drop shit or compost. These folks, Holzer and Ward, arent at odds, yall are just video blind and need more access to sites and solution processes.
@@MrFlatTaxi wtf does that mean? Wards cabin at wolf gulch was roosted by great horned owls who raised fledge when I was studying there two decades ago. have you built a home that supported raptor fledge? no=STFU. otherwise, tell us the story!
@@destonlee2838 I was looking for an informed recent comment on this good old video . Could you please help me with some recommended books, websites , I can study on harvesting water for organic agriculture ? Or what is the best method to plan it out for maximum succes with a specialist ? My land has lots of clay and maybe the Zepp Holzer method might be better for me. How do I make those rolls out of clay , how do I place them ? My land is in central Romania
Swales and ponds help slow down water as it moves down on slope, after rain, or after flood, water is still left over absorbing into soil. This puts water underground and can be used later.
This is awesome. What a wonderful place!
Great points, and Tom would agree with you that lining the ponds was not ideal. I intentionally included Tom's explanations about why they resorted to the pond liners, the first one being the extreme drought and acute water shortage for irrigation, and the second being the hitting of leaky bedrock on the larger pond during excavation. Watch it again a bit more carefully and you will hear the explanations for the liners. It became an issue of farm survival for them. Thanks for your feedback.
been to that farm and yeah, what a rankle. curious to know how its survived. our property is so FLAT. less than 10' on 120ac. on glacial outwash. what a water management wowie!
Good point! There are actually a lot more trees planted then is evident, they are just slow growing in that arid environment. However there are a lot of annual fields in vicinity of the ponds. The tree planting is focussed on the shelter belts highlighted in the video.
its a dry site. I recall under 20 inches a year. lots of alkaline soil margins. i ought gio back, its been since 2003 I think. le sigh, roadtripo time! im here getting vids together for some swale/keyline dialogue with our veteran farm program :D
Thank you and love from Egypt.
www.sekem.com/en/about/friends-partners-networks/
I sure hope the Salmon return. That would be absolutely marvellous.
Bravo. Beautiful and Smart! The future!
As a person that is about to head into permaculture farming on a "small" scale farm, me and my girlfriend are gone take 8 months in a permaculture school/farm then we are taking over her parents farm, this video really got me in a good mood :D
fantastic farm yiu have, the school is also hill/mountain based, in Sweden (we are Sweds)
we get 100 squere meters to grow each off us, then a seperet larges fields for potatoes and such we will grow all together, 23 students and 4 teachers
Gorgeous piece of property
Love the Shri Ganesha :)
Thank you for this video. The explanation of the keyline system is very useful. Congratulations on your excellent work.
Awesome work... We've also had to line a pond with poly and built other ones - but we always cover them with soil to make them last longer and look nicer (and not get punctured!). Great video and site!
Wow! I am so proud of you! Great job! I live in Portland, am a certified Permaculture Trainee and am doing small scale natural farming and learning about Keyline and I want to DO some Keyline!
Really interesting question. I don't believe there was Indian esoteric design systems mixed in, but Tom Ward is a pretty amazing and dynamic guy, so there's no telling what the depth and diversity of his core influences are ;-)
"universal eclectic ecosavant" is perhaps a bit of pigeonhole, but I offer it nonetheless
WoW what a great visual video! Keep it up.
We need more of this in the USA--it could save the entire SW
Dear Wolf Gulch family, I am an aspiring permaculture practitioner on my land in Siskiyou County. My background is in plant biology with an enthusiasm for sustainable land management. The steps you have taken on your ranch make so much sense so thank you for sharing. My land unfortunately is mostly flat and our large pond is situated at the lowest part of our land. For these reasons I'm thinking of utilizing a solar pump to guide our water to the areas that it is needed. Specifically our native seed production areas. We have also utilized Llamas in helping to restore our native grasses while eliminating invasive weeds like star thistle. I agree restoring the land is so rewarding. Thank you for all of your efforts. Be well.
Nice one Tom.What an excellent video.
You have great knowledge and willing to share,so thank you.
Sincerely
JF ( UK )
Thank you Sensei 🙏♥️🌱
Nice to meet you too
Great job❤
I love this guy.
Amazing video!
it is beautiful!
Imagine If the 1st nation came and said that's our land and kicked you off? So much work and so beautiful. That happened to a good good friend of mine.
Pond liner manufacturers recommend burying the pond liner under soil to protect it from uv degredation. Otherwise the liner will degrade in about 10 years and you will have to replace it. It takes a lot more work so most people don't do it but will be less work in the long run and looks better. If buried the liner will last until punctured. The slopes of the pond have to be shallow enough to hold the soil 1:3.
Awesome video!
Lord ganesh at the starting of video shows Indian tradition
How is that possible in USA
Hi. I don't think Tom is monitoring this comment section, but I know that he has plans for further expansion of the system. They've already surveyed and staked it out in his Advanced Permaculture Course in Optical Surveying. Thanks for the kind words.
I would like to learn more about how you effect the cold temperature through the hedges? Pretty neat idea. We are looking at buying a small farm in Central Portugal and want the farm in the correct way, through using what we have and with little damage to the earth. I have been learning and using the no dig method and it really does work. I have hardly any weeds at home right now on my veg plot. I also treated myself to Richard Perkins book on Regenerative agriculture, so I have a much better idea on where to start. I will learn the land for the first couple of years, where the water is and where it collects and what the hottest parts of the farm is and where the shade (if any is). I will be watching all your films as I have been watching about Keyline and how it works. If it can work in Africa I am sure it will work in Central Portugal. All the best and hope you have a great growing year this year.
Tracy, thanks for the kind words.
Cold air flows down from the mountains and straight down the valley. The way that the hedgerows deflect cold air drainage is that they are placed at an angle which intercepts that cold air flow and diverts it to the side away from the crops in the valley. That same angle of hedgerow also blocks warm dry air that blows up the valley during the day.
Best regards,
Andrew
Man that background on the mountain is cool and becutful
Great stuff!
I think you have done an amazing job. I live in your area closer to the border so I know the climate. It seems (what do I know) you have room for more unlined perhaps overflow ponds that do get the extra clay lining treatment and will allow for the ground recharging and slow absorption benefits. Yours is just a lovely and thoughtful design..maybe I'll get to come see it someday.
"we're having fun" :D ahah awesome work
One day I will hire a guy like this to design and deploy a solution like that on my land 😁😁😁
Graphics really help, ty
Good on you🙏🏾
I prefer Sepp's ponds. Not only are they alive as you say, but the main point of them is precisely that they are not sealed, which he considers a mistake. The surrounding earth is used to slow and hold the water, and the hydrological cycle is allowed to flow naturally.
Love the Ganesha statue in the start!
It's a shame that there weren't more swales, orchards, productive systems, mulching and habitat creation within the area. I would have tried to capture as much water with swales and batters to slow down overland flow closer to the source rather than channelling it where you'd think to use it from. Just filling out the perimeter with fruit/native trees/ornamentals could have had a huge net positive increase in thermal reflection and soil fertility/permeability. Some food for thought, but other than that it's a decent site. Hopefully it's trending on the up with time.
This channel has some great content. I am surprised your subscriber count is so low. Keep up the good work, the info and entertainment value is high.
I especially like the way you present the property digitally.
Very good, very well
One of many beest videos on the subject, also see Richard Perkins on Ridgedale Farms. 59 Degrees North Permaculture GURU!
If you want to conserve every drop in that lined pond you might consider shading it via trees or other means and wind protecting it.
Agreed. I have to wonder how something like a dew pond would have worked on this land. Granted it would have been much more time consuming than the liner to put in place.
Who would have thunk that permaculture was so expensive!
It depends on the return on investment will be. It could pay for itself in 5 years. What was the property worth before the work and what's it worth after?
This is video is now 11 years old. Maybe its time for another visit?
Nice information sir
Claro permacultura con plástico muy ecológico todo
We also had to line ours when it leaked for the same reason.
Good job
Awesome video, you guys are great! Have you considered using an aquaponic irrigation system in addition to the graviity fed system? The fish waste is a very valuble and effective fertiliser and the fish them selves are a great source of food :). Anyway keep it up!
There was fish in the ponds.
It is really amazing and I like it as well appreciate the way you do everything. I should apply the same in Ethiopia.
Beekaa. T(Yalemsew)
hahahaa
iam there too :P :) 🔱
iam pleased by your service tom :D
What about of using a concrete reservoir instead of a plastic liner? And then grow trees like weeping willow along the banks to reduce exposure to the sun thus reducing evaporation. How long does that plastic liner last?
Im just comparing the systems of ancient civilizations since most of them where self sufficient on site and we can learn more from them, vastu shastra was the vedic science for planing ancient cities and temples. I found this video can look up in youtube "Tao Garden Introduction by Master Mantak Chia" that the guy using feng shui principles pretty much designed by permaculture way a settlement which is interesting, just to keep adding what it works to permaculture :P, and adapt to modern times.
Would love to see an update - how does this system look now?
We are borrowing the water - take care of it.
I think about 2000'.
Oh awesome video, just one question do you guys are using vastuu shastra in the planning as well? that Indian statue caught my attention ;). Also im shareing this video in my facebook :) thanks.
The water quality looks good with the pond liner. I'm wondering how long the liner lasts ?
Tom said that the rule of thumb for pond liners is 1 year of life span per millimeter. So if that's 40 mil plastic, about 40 years, give or take.
Andrew Millison Thanks for the fascinating video. Re your "40 mil plastic" please note that the "mil" you're talking about is American English for "one thousandth of an inch". If the liner was 40 mm thick, that would mean a little over an inch and a half- that's not what you have in that liner ;-)
John Lawson That's a really good point! I didn't catch that. 40 millimeters would be like a rubber mat. Thanks so much for clarifying that John.
L
Or how much of which chemicals and/or heavy metals it is transferring to the water. All plastics do this. ALL of them.
I wonder if these principles could be put in place to help combat the wildfires on the west coast
This is my dream but now ia mtoo old to satrt this
great information. what's the distance between the keylines?
What are your thoughts about using old carpeting as a pad under the liner to increase it's longevity and protect it from rocky soil?
I don't know what Tom would say, but I think that although old carpeting can be toxic, it stays inert under a pond liner and can add to the life span of the pond significantly if it protects the liner from leaks.
all for it in *many* cases. were using it at the glaciers edge. with clay imbedded. top it with clay and soil and its likely well on its way to highest and best use.
I built ponds in this specific area for 30 years, not a fan of the used carpets. The plentiful local material here is D.G. (Decomposed Granite), kind of a coarse sand but packs, using that to shape, mold, smooth the contours, can even be hand rolled, but mainly just hand tamped or with vibra-plate. Then I prefer the 16-20 oz. heavy felt underlayment, like what is used under road gravels. directly under the liner. The pond is sited well above those cottonwoods down in the seasonal creek, they would pose the biggest threat to liner, besides deer hooves. EPDM 45 mil rubber is best when deer are present (if you need liner), if they are using 30 mil PVC then ouch!
Why do you use foil and isolate the water from the ground among the ponds?
3:27 Didn't the ancient Egyptians turn the Fertile Crescent into a desert?
No a major drought did that. Though that drought wasn't the most severe within the last 100,000 years, it's considered more severe than anything we've experience today.
Theres also the bronze age collapse.
At some point the major civilizations (that made the fertile crescent fertile by meticulous, centrally engineered irrigation) collapsed, thus leading to desertification of their former fields.
The people who lived in the once-but-no-longer Fertile Crescent did turn the place into a desert. All the famous 'cedars of Lebanon' mentioned in the Bible and elsewhere were cut down long, long ago- except for one small patch on a hillside. Nomadic herders who managed their herds and the grasslands and savanna (grassland dotted with trees) as nature did were encouraged to settle in place. And/or till the soil. And/or produce enough for their families AND to pay tribute/taxes. Instead of using crop residue to feed animals and or as mulch - either will build soil organic matter, which holds rain when it does fall - the tradition developed to burn off the stalks left after harvest.
Obviously there were other factors, but these things all had impacts.
The northern end of the African continent that once received much more rainfall is not the area known as the Fertile Crescent. Even with major shifts in weather patterns that are out of our control, human activity in itself creates droughts and floods - often in the same place.
keeping OREGON green
🙏
💓
Ganpati bappa morya 😍😍
Im surprised there is nothing in the pond plant wise. Poor fish/
fish can eat algae, and in the bottom will be a bit of mud where worms can live, and many bugs fall in when they come to drink
not bad.. Would rather not use pond liners though. No clay on site?
My farm not need water management. Lots already
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Very true. Beavers have done the work for you! :)
You could look at putting in swales on contour, and connect the ponds, so they will overflow into one another, and gravity feed agro-forestry systems
Yes like the beavers.
But how much swales cost to connect.
What is economic benefit?
Tim Baxter on mountains when it rains hard a lot of the clay can be washed out.
I love this guys infrastructure - highly resilient
Good
Coool
Wow
wait what 0.22 loard ganesh (one of indian god) how?
How high in the mountain above the sea level are you located?
He stated this early in the video - about 2600 ft above sea level.
Lord ganesha statue 💐💐
oh how I miss 2012 youtube
Hey that's Ganesh statue
You people dont understand soil. Keys to soil health: Limit disturabance, living root in the soil all year around, keep it covered all year a round, use biodiversity, and if you can use livestock on it.
I'm new to this, but what I'm learning so far about permaculture does lean more toward what you're saying than what is in this video. However, I find this video useful for the water (and possibly wind) management illustration.
Michael Teter
Water should go into the soil and not run off, if it does, your soil is not optimal. Wind erosion is because bare soil, never bare soil.
That's it! Gustav, you nailed it. So this means that only mulching a soil and leaving it to 'rest' is still not optimal; but a play of some hardy cover crops is the most fertilizing way (see e.g. 'Under Cover Farmers'). And building a Food Forest seems to be nature's richest way; no complicated earth works there ... see Life in Syntropy ua-cam.com/video/gSPNRu4ZPvE/v-deo.html
Yeah this video seems very hard work and against nature, they strip out all the trees and ground cover and then wonder why the rain water never sticks around and the aquifer starts to dry up 😔
Yeah, you honor the crap out of the Egyptians, alright!. I love the practicality of everything, but is it designed to look like "Ra", or "Isis"? I can't decide
Naming it a permaculture keyline water system is not giving credit to P A Yeomans who was the originator of the keyline system. It should be titled- Yeomans Keyline Water System in Permaculture.
Actually, I learned later from Darren Doherty that this should not be called Keyline at all, as it really doesn't follow the strict design methods laid out by P.A. Yeomans. I since made a whole series outlining the Keyline Design system and crediting P.A.Yeomans more accurately: ua-cam.com/play/PL2fCGQa2PY7AjkepQNbwatKWUkiY3FwXL.html
Same kind of people pronounces 'pond' as 'phand', who says dhaalar (Dollar) and jhaab (Job)
+Val-schaeffer everbeen to new england, Fenway park Has a famous feature, called the Green Monstah, turnsignals are called blinkahs, and the town of Leominster Ma, is call lemonster. You gotta problem wi dat?
👏👍😀