From an INFJ POV, I loved your presentation. I thought that you were spot on to our two similar but different personalities. I love working and socializing with my INTJ cousin.
Great presentation! I've thought for awhile that I'd like to eventually work closely with an INTJ in my company (I'm INFJ) This has sunk the idea. I dig the way your minds work. I'd make you head of Finance
I love this video so much , i will probably watch it a hell lot and learn from the patterns you saw in INFJs , im 22 i have gone through harsh conditions that made me more appreciate the reality of life as it is , and not be so focused on being agreable all the time as I was before , so i think i experienced life from the point of view of an INTJ ,I mean I thought as an INTJ would from a long time , but there was always that problem of me having that ideal idea about smart people being quick and think on the spot that hold my growth for years , because as you know im the opposite of that so i dropped the elite school i was in just because of that , since i thought my whole life im smart and to see that image of me shatter , i took it badly but after some years of being average , i changed that view and started believing in hard work , and after just a month and half i became so good at all of the subjects and started seeing how the professors think , especially my intj professor that was intrested in me a lot , criticizing my questions even tho i felt they are core for me and the class to understand hahaha or saying stuff like of course it is that way , i was always frustrated at how he gives us a whole bunch of ways and tools that do the same thing when i really needed to spend a long time just understanding one to perfection , and there i saw his Te compared to my weak ass Ti hahah i mean it's not weak but quite slow and needs time , i lost where i was going with this , i think that i wanted to clearly see my weaknesses and work on them since i want to build a company in the future but im afraid becuase of my Te blind spot , but a detailed compairison between an INFJ and INTJ would make things really clear , and you did such a perfect job .
Thanks for the kind words. Like I said in the beginning, typology shouldn't be taken too seriously. You are after all, an individual. Please take care!
As an INFJ I disagree with ur assessment of our loyalty to a company who's engaging in unethical practices. This alone would be more than enough to justify me walking out immediately after becoming aware of it. I do love the idea behind this video tho, and appreciate your time and effort put into it's creation. -also....... If I could mix cognitive functions between these 2 types in order to create a more efficient "type", I would trade some of my Introverted thinking for some of the INTJ's Introverted feeling lol
The fact that i am really reluctant (INTJ side) for implementing most of the tips probably means i should really work on them :): 1) "Don't rock the boat too hard": Well there is a reason why i am doing it and rocking it a bit less did not work so... Solution: i guess mayby there are more options that i did not consider - fair enough. 2) "Respect some unspoken rules and social dynamics": no! Just... no. If something is "unspoken" how am i suposed to know that the rule even exists? Is there a list of all the "unspoken" rules so i could go and read it mayby? Otherwise anyone can make up any rules on the fly and say it is "unspoken". This one is ridiculous :). I understand the concept but it makes no sense. Solution: If there is situation where someone (probably me) has broken those "unspoken" rules - just let me know for example in this way: "we do not do that here." - i will either not accept it and leave or respect that because it is not "unspoken" anymore. 3) "Avoid giving unsolicited feedback": i have already learned this. This is actually true. Not everyone wants help - some people just want to complain and feel better by doing that. Thats why for some time i always ask: "Do you want advice/solution to your problem or just want to be heard and comforted?" This works :). 4) "Make room for 'impractical' ideation": Sure but only when the topic is interesting - otherwise no... i will not waste time. Good example is ENTP type - they have new idea every minute - 99% of them are crazy and impractical but the 1% is worth listening to and understanding all of them. And also they present the ideas in interesting and funny way. Solution: if it is "thinking" impractical idea - go ahead and my mind is yours to bounce off of. If it is "feeling" impractical idea - i will pass, go look for someone else. 5) "Be generous with positive feedback and affirmations": This on is tricky. If i will be giving feedback just because it is necessary - at some point it will not be genuine anymore. But that is true - often i just forget to thank someone or appreciate work/effort - will work on that. 6) "Respect emotional transactions": No. Gift (either materialistic or not) is a gift. If someone is expecting something in return it was NOT a gift in the first place and i should have been informed about that before. Sure when someone is giving me something i will sooner or later try and do something in gratitude - but this can not be expected by the other side (again because then it will not be a gift but form of re-pay). Any form of this type of "expected transactions" in any type of relations (romantic, friendship, business, etc.) is toxic and i try to avoid it at all costs and always state it clear at some point when new relation is beeing created. If the other side feels that is giving more than receiving - then simply communicate the fact - you will receive one of possible two answers: - "ok i was not aware of that - i will work on that" (then observe if i am keeping my word) - "i am sorry you feel that way - you should stop then because now all the gifts feel uncomfortable."
what are your thoughts on infps at work, i knew one who was always sitting alone at break time, was just doing his work (but really slow and inefficient), got criticised a lot, looked always sad, he didn't do much, eventually he got fired.
I believe elon is intp. I have noticed a trend where any successful (by societal standard) intp is typed as either entj or intj. Its like people expect them to be failures or something.
Typing famous people is hard, we get to see only the personae they project. To counter your point about success, Bill Gates is commonly typed as INTP and he is considered very successful. My reasons for typing Elon as Ni dom have to do with his single-lane future projection and focus. He fixates on perceived crises in the future (AI, climate, disease, etc...) and seeks to avert them. Compare his publicly indefensible convictions with someone like Bill Gates, who deals with statistically justifiable crises (eradicating disease, global equality, energy, etc...) Behaviorally, Elon exhibits INTPish behaviors with his speaking style, online trolling, emphasis on higher-order thinking, etc... But if you watch a serious interview with him (not a PR stunt), you will see heavy use of Te over Ti. He will dismiss philosophical explorations of "what if?" ideas in favor of what is most likely. A great example is this interview, where he disregards the problem of consciousness in the most Te way. ua-cam.com/video/smK9dgdTl40/v-deo.html If I had to squeeze him in to MBTI buckets, it would be this order: INTJ, ISTP, ENTJ, INTP
There also seems to be more emphasis on Se over Si. His episodes of binge consumption and stimulation definitely indicates some Se polarization. He describes his inner world as chaotic (Ni), not orderly and harmonious (Si). I don't see any Si-Ne axis qualities at all, especially when it comes to the "Why" behind his actions. Absolute minimalism in his lifestyle, very little attachment to groups / objects, impatience towards Si conventions/routines (work hours, regulations, etc..), extreme focus on result over process indicate Se-Ni.
Interesting points you bring up. Its refreshing to see you actually put some thought into this before coming to a conclusion. That is pretty rare in the typology community. Yeah, I agree that typing famous people is hard but that point could be used for or against any side for example, I could also argue that the interview you linked is a pr stunt and dismiss it. This problem can't be totally eliminated but we can mitigated it by using multiple sources to cancel out the noise and a robust analysis. With elon musk, the thing that stands out the most to me is his focus on first principles reasoning. He has mentioned that multiple times in his interviews. He want to get the root of any problem his is working on to truly understand it. That seems like a Ti approach. You can also sense his ti in his views about education, his views on mba ceos etc. of course an intj could also come to the same conclusions with Ni, but this is typically associated with Ti. Also, his approach to his goals is all over the place. He has multiple company's that aren't really tied to one vision. Open Ai, Tesla, space X, Boring company etc. They are tie by a loss theme of helping humanity somehow (solving the problem of Fe with ti). I imagine that an INTJ would be more focused on one vision and even if he/she has multiple companies they would all tie to one vision. Also, he mentioned in an interview with joe rogan that he noticed from a young age he always has a constant explosion of ideas and that he doesn't like making plans. I associate those statements with Ne. You can also tell his an intp by his detailed understanding of the products he works on. He has a very detailed understand of rockets and rocket science for instance. Am not saying a intj can't understand things like that, but they are more likely to be interested in understanding/ running the organization and not be as interested in the details of the product. One point for intj would be his work ethic as he claims to work for 100+ hours every week, but I think it is possible of an intp to have a very strong work ethic as long as they are passionate about what they are doing. The problem with intps is maintaining the work ethic for a long period of time. I think elon musk solves this problem in two ways. One way he does it is by working on multiple projects at the same time. That way, if he gets bored of one, he can focus on another one. The other is by keeping himself accountable with the Fe contracts he makes. He makes very ambitious promises to society that activates his fe to work hard. On your point on his single lane future projects, they don't seem like single lane projections to me, unless I am missing something. His projections seem scattered and unrelated to each other. From the way I understand Ni, it likes to make connected projects that relate to one another. I think he see multiple possibilities with his Ne and uses his ti deduce the most logical action. Also for bill gates, I also think his an intp, but alot of people actually type him as entj as well. I think as people are beginning to understand the cognitive functions, more people are realizing that he is an intp. That said, at the end of the day, this isn't math or logic where you can be 100% sure of a conclusion, so there is always a possibility that I am wrong.
@@oluchukwuokafor7729 You raise good points. Unless we take a super-essentialist view of typology, no person will actually fit any of the 16 archetypes. I am planning on making a series about INTPs, at least how they appear from an Ni point of view. One of my observations is that INTPs prefer a JIC (just in case) over JIT (just in time) mode of learning. Personally, I hated having to learn things, knowledge for knowledge sakes, and preferred a more applied / practical mode of learning. You can see that Elon is doing this for his kids, not teaching them generic mental tools (math, algorithms, etc..) but problem solving. Going back to the Bill Gates example, you can see that he is a sincere intellectual who values knowledge for knowledge-sake. He maintains a giant library, a public reading list, regularly retreats into hermit mode to do deep reading. His stance on education is very different. RE: Ni It is a singular vision with plural manifestations. For example, solving energy can manifest as several products. Saving energy is a derivative of a higher goal of saving mankind, and so on and on...
@@senzavadik3136 That is the approach, I generally like to take, but it's difficult to take that approach in the arts and humanities. I guess that is why I am more drawn to the sciences. I find your observations true for the most part, but I think intps also want what they learn to be applied, the difference between them and intjs is that they generally want to find the best possible solution while the intj is satisfied with something that works, so intps will tend to spend more time perfecting solutions that is why intjs generally accomplish more in the same time frame. I see traits of this in Elon musk tho not as extreme as the average intp. It is generally agreed that the most effective approach for self driving cars is the Lidar approach with pre recorded maps, but Elon chose to go with less pragmatic, more complex but arguably better solution of neural networks and image processing solution. Another Example is when Elon was recently forced to scrap his attempt to automate his entire production line, because tho the idea works in theory, it is currently not practical. On your example with Elon kids. I think I can see a ti user doing that. He might reason, math and algorithm are the end not the means for problem solving so I would rather teach my kids the means and they would produce the end themselves. A lot of schools (especially below college) are taught in a very Te way. Here are the facts, don't question them you stubborn child. That is why alot of intps and ti users in general struggle in school. This could also a apply to Ni users, but for a different reason. I look forward to your video.
From an INFJ POV, I loved your presentation. I thought that you were spot on to our two similar but different personalities. I love working and socializing with my INTJ cousin.
Thanks!
Great presentation! I've thought for awhile that I'd like to eventually work closely with an INTJ in my company (I'm INFJ) This has sunk the idea. I dig the way your minds work. I'd make you head of Finance
I love this video so much , i will probably watch it a hell lot and learn from the patterns you saw in INFJs , im 22 i have gone through harsh conditions that made me more appreciate the reality of life as it is , and not be so focused on being agreable all the time as I was before , so i think i experienced life from the point of view of an INTJ ,I mean I thought as an INTJ would from a long time , but there was always that problem of me having that ideal idea about smart people being quick and think on the spot that hold my growth for years , because as you know im the opposite of that so i dropped the elite school i was in just because of that , since i thought my whole life im smart and to see that image of me shatter , i took it badly but after some years of being average , i changed that view and started believing in hard work , and after just a month and half i became so good at all of the subjects and started seeing how the professors think , especially my intj professor that was intrested in me a lot , criticizing my questions even tho i felt they are core for me and the class to understand hahaha or saying stuff like of course it is that way , i was always frustrated at how he gives us a whole bunch of ways and tools that do the same thing when i really needed to spend a long time just understanding one to perfection , and there i saw his Te compared to my weak ass Ti hahah i mean it's not weak but quite slow and needs time , i lost where i was going with this , i think that i wanted to clearly see my weaknesses and work on them since i want to build a company in the future but im afraid becuase of my Te blind spot , but a detailed compairison between an INFJ and INTJ would make things really clear , and you did such a perfect job .
Thanks for the kind words. Like I said in the beginning, typology shouldn't be taken too seriously. You are after all, an individual. Please take care!
@@senzavadik3136 thanks for the advice
As an INFJ I disagree with ur assessment of our loyalty to a company who's engaging in unethical practices. This alone would be more than enough to justify me walking out immediately after becoming aware of it. I do love the idea behind this video tho, and appreciate your time and effort put into it's creation.
-also....... If I could mix cognitive functions between these 2 types in order to create a more efficient "type", I would trade some of my Introverted thinking for some of the INTJ's Introverted feeling lol
They're like the animus and the anima. Two concepts Carl Jung actually popularized.
Thank you very much
You are welcome
What if the same individual has almost equal strengths as both INTJ and INFJ?
The fact that i am really reluctant (INTJ side) for implementing most of the tips probably means i should really work on them :):
1) "Don't rock the boat too hard":
Well there is a reason why i am doing it and rocking it a bit less did not work so...
Solution:
i guess mayby there are more options that i did not consider - fair enough.
2) "Respect some unspoken rules and social dynamics":
no! Just... no.
If something is "unspoken" how am i suposed to know that the rule even exists?
Is there a list of all the "unspoken" rules so i could go and read it mayby? Otherwise anyone can make up any rules on the fly and say it is "unspoken".
This one is ridiculous :). I understand the concept but it makes no sense.
Solution:
If there is situation where someone (probably me) has broken those "unspoken" rules - just let me know for example in this way: "we do not do that here." - i will either not accept it and leave or respect that because it is not "unspoken" anymore.
3) "Avoid giving unsolicited feedback":
i have already learned this. This is actually true. Not everyone wants help - some people just want to complain and feel better by doing that.
Thats why for some time i always ask: "Do you want advice/solution to your problem or just want to be heard and comforted?"
This works :).
4) "Make room for 'impractical' ideation":
Sure but only when the topic is interesting - otherwise no... i will not waste time.
Good example is ENTP type - they have new idea every minute - 99% of them are crazy and impractical but the 1% is worth listening to and understanding all of them. And also they present the ideas in interesting and funny way.
Solution:
if it is "thinking" impractical idea - go ahead and my mind is yours to bounce off of. If it is "feeling" impractical idea - i will pass, go look for someone else.
5) "Be generous with positive feedback and affirmations":
This on is tricky. If i will be giving feedback just because it is necessary - at some point it will not be genuine anymore.
But that is true - often i just forget to thank someone or appreciate work/effort - will work on that.
6) "Respect emotional transactions":
No.
Gift (either materialistic or not) is a gift. If someone is expecting something in return it was NOT a gift in the first place and i should have been informed about that before.
Sure when someone is giving me something i will sooner or later try and do something in gratitude - but this can not be expected by the other side (again because then it will not be a gift but form of re-pay).
Any form of this type of "expected transactions" in any type of relations (romantic, friendship, business, etc.) is toxic and i try to avoid it at all costs and always state it clear at some point when new relation is beeing created. If the other side feels that is giving more than receiving - then simply communicate the fact - you will receive one of possible two answers:
- "ok i was not aware of that - i will work on that" (then observe if i am keeping my word)
- "i am sorry you feel that way - you should stop then because now all the gifts feel uncomfortable."
Really need this.
Good content
Could you make a video on INTJ working with ENFP?
what are your thoughts on infps at work, i knew one who was always sitting alone at break time, was just doing his work (but really slow and inefficient), got criticised a lot, looked always sad, he didn't do much, eventually he got fired.
They probably struggle with the quantity over quality mindset of most businesses.
I believe elon is intp. I have noticed a trend where any successful (by societal standard) intp is typed as either entj or intj. Its like people expect them to be failures or something.
Typing famous people is hard, we get to see only the personae they project.
To counter your point about success, Bill Gates is commonly typed as INTP and he is considered very successful.
My reasons for typing Elon as Ni dom have to do with his single-lane future projection and focus. He fixates on perceived crises in the future (AI, climate, disease, etc...) and seeks to avert them. Compare his publicly indefensible convictions with someone like Bill Gates, who deals with statistically justifiable crises (eradicating disease, global equality, energy, etc...)
Behaviorally, Elon exhibits INTPish behaviors with his speaking style, online trolling, emphasis on higher-order thinking, etc... But if you watch a serious interview with him (not a PR stunt), you will see heavy use of Te over Ti. He will dismiss philosophical explorations of "what if?" ideas in favor of what is most likely.
A great example is this interview, where he disregards the problem of consciousness in the most Te way. ua-cam.com/video/smK9dgdTl40/v-deo.html
If I had to squeeze him in to MBTI buckets, it would be this order: INTJ, ISTP, ENTJ, INTP
There also seems to be more emphasis on Se over Si. His episodes of binge consumption and stimulation definitely indicates some Se polarization. He describes his inner world as chaotic (Ni), not orderly and harmonious (Si).
I don't see any Si-Ne axis qualities at all, especially when it comes to the "Why" behind his actions. Absolute minimalism in his lifestyle, very little attachment to groups / objects, impatience towards Si conventions/routines (work hours, regulations, etc..), extreme focus on result over process indicate Se-Ni.
Interesting points you bring up. Its refreshing to see you actually put some thought into this before coming to a conclusion. That is pretty rare in the typology community. Yeah, I agree that typing famous people is hard but that point could be used for or against any side for example, I could also argue that the interview you linked is a pr stunt and dismiss it. This problem can't be totally eliminated but we can mitigated it by using multiple sources to cancel out the noise and a robust analysis.
With elon musk, the thing that stands out the most to me is his focus on first principles reasoning. He has mentioned that multiple times in his interviews. He want to get the root of any problem his is working on to truly understand it. That seems like a Ti approach. You can also sense his ti in his views about education, his views on mba ceos etc. of course an intj could also come to the same conclusions with Ni, but this is typically associated with Ti.
Also, his approach to his goals is all over the place. He has multiple company's that aren't really tied to one vision. Open Ai, Tesla, space X, Boring company etc. They are tie by a loss theme of helping humanity somehow (solving the problem of Fe with ti). I imagine that an INTJ would be more focused on one vision and even if he/she has multiple companies they would all tie to one vision. Also, he mentioned in an interview with joe rogan that he noticed from a young age he always has a constant explosion of ideas and that he doesn't like making plans. I associate those statements with Ne.
You can also tell his an intp by his detailed understanding of the products he works on. He has a very detailed understand of rockets and rocket science for instance. Am not saying a intj can't understand things like that, but they are more likely to be interested in understanding/ running the organization and not be as interested in the details of the product.
One point for intj would be his work ethic as he claims to work for 100+ hours every week, but I think it is possible of an intp to have a very strong work ethic as long as they are passionate about what they are doing. The problem with intps is maintaining the work ethic for a long period of time. I think elon musk solves this problem in two ways. One way he does it is by working on multiple projects at the same time. That way, if he gets bored of one, he can focus on another one. The other is by keeping himself accountable with the Fe contracts he makes. He makes very ambitious promises to society that activates his fe to work hard.
On your point on his single lane future projects, they don't seem like single lane projections to me, unless I am missing something. His projections seem scattered and unrelated to each other. From the way I understand Ni, it likes to make connected projects that relate to one another. I think he see multiple possibilities with his Ne and uses his ti deduce the most logical action.
Also for bill gates, I also think his an intp, but alot of people actually type him as entj as well. I think as people are beginning to understand the cognitive functions, more people are realizing that he is an intp.
That said, at the end of the day, this isn't math or logic where you can be 100% sure of a conclusion, so there is always a possibility that I am wrong.
@@oluchukwuokafor7729 You raise good points. Unless we take a super-essentialist view of typology, no person will actually fit any of the 16 archetypes.
I am planning on making a series about INTPs, at least how they appear from an Ni point of view.
One of my observations is that INTPs prefer a JIC (just in case) over JIT (just in time) mode of learning. Personally, I hated having to learn things, knowledge for knowledge sakes, and preferred a more applied / practical mode of learning. You can see that Elon is doing this for his kids, not teaching them generic mental tools (math, algorithms, etc..) but problem solving.
Going back to the Bill Gates example, you can see that he is a sincere intellectual who values knowledge for knowledge-sake. He maintains a giant library, a public reading list, regularly retreats into hermit mode to do deep reading. His stance on education is very different.
RE: Ni
It is a singular vision with plural manifestations. For example, solving energy can manifest as several products. Saving energy is a derivative of a higher goal of saving mankind, and so on and on...
@@senzavadik3136 That is the approach, I generally like to take, but it's difficult to take that approach in the arts and humanities. I guess that is why I am more drawn to the sciences.
I find your observations true for the most part, but I think intps also want what they learn to be applied, the difference between them and intjs is that they generally want to find the best possible solution while the intj is satisfied with something that works, so intps will tend to spend more time perfecting solutions that is why intjs generally accomplish more in the same time frame.
I see traits of this in Elon musk tho not as extreme as the average intp.
It is generally agreed that the most effective approach for self driving cars is the Lidar approach with pre recorded maps, but Elon chose to go with less pragmatic, more complex but arguably better solution of neural networks and image processing solution. Another Example is when Elon was recently forced to scrap his attempt to automate his entire production line, because tho the idea works in theory, it is currently not practical.
On your example with Elon kids. I think I can see a ti user doing that. He might reason, math and algorithm are the end not the means for problem solving so I would rather teach my kids the means and they would produce the end themselves. A lot of schools (especially below college) are taught in a very Te way. Here are the facts, don't question them you stubborn child. That is why alot of intps and ti users in general struggle in school. This could also a apply to Ni users, but for a different reason.
I look forward to your video.