How useful Cultivate is depends on when you want to ramp. A 5 mana commander? Heck yes, very reliable and always welcome. However in my Goreclaw deck which costs 4, I cut it in favor of 1-2 mana ramp spells.
So true. In my jinnie fay deck (3 cmc) I started using wild growth and utopia sprawl for the first time. Also prefer harrow over cultivate/kodamas but I include them to get me to my 7 cmc game enders
Building the right ramp package really is an art. You need to really understand what mana breakpoints you're going to care the most about. Sometimes, that means you want to curve bird-cultivate-5 mana commander. But that's not most decks. Cultivate/Kodamas really is only worth their spots if your deck frequently goes 1-3-5 AND does not have reliable card draw/enough lands so that you need the land for land drops. And if you really care about those land drops, I think I'd rather play You Happen on a Glade. Or even better, just play more MDFC lands to reach 40 or more lands without losing spells.
I've got another alternative to Aetherize, it's Polymorphist's Jest. It can often fog an attack by turning all the attackers into vanilla 1/1s. It usually lets you block and kill their best creatures. And it often can be used proactively to turn off key creatures and stop a value engine for a turn.
I feel lumping in ponder with opt and preordain is a bit misleading. For one mana what's essentially scry 3 draw a card is almost impossible to beat at that rate and can fix your draws for the first chunk of the game, making it a great pick for slower decks that need to assemble an engine carefully early or play for the later game and need their ramp and lands to keep coming. It's perhaps the only cantrip I'd ever recommend in a vacuum and the ability to shuffle as well has a multitude of benefits
I'd also like to mention Connecting the Dots for red card draw. 2 mana for a Bomat Courier style effect triggering on any creature. If you're aggro at all in a red deck (likely) you can accrue an insane amount of cards in just a turn or two. Then either dump your hand or just wheel it away - this has regularly gotten me 7-10 cards over just 2 turns in Mr. House.
I feel like indestructible protection is very good in combat metas. It will offer unfavourable trades. It also keeps creatures on the board which has its own utility. It can force bad trades, protect an alpha strike, and avoid trample damage.
I really think that alpha strike protection is the important part. Field-wide indestructible plus vigilance plus a buff doesn't sound like board-wipe protection to me, it sounds like a Dolmen Gate effect that lets you crash your entire field forward and avoid every downside of doing so. Your creatures can't get destroyed in combat, you don't lose any blockers, and in a crowded board-state where nobody can attack safely (or in a deck that's power-heavy but toughness-light), that might be the exact effect that breaks parity and lets you start pushing for a win.
@@Quincunx_5 Absolutely. It's more proactive protection. It's still good in a bind maybe not as good as the fogs, flickerers, and phasers but they are almost always reactive only (Obscuring Haze being an exception). It is costly but I also think people under value Indestructible at the moment. It means you can fire off one sided board wipes by going in on ones that destroy. So your opponents might keep some pieces but you have your whole board and they're indestructible. Which means you don't then have to wait a turn to capitalise on the one-sidedness.
With all due respect, there's just a lot of terrible advice or just suggestions without context. A ton of cards are played because they are budget options. Saying that people should play Teferi's Protection or Clever Concealment over Unbreakable Formation is a no-brainer. But both of those cards are considerably more expensive; Teferi's is ~$45 and Clever Conceal is $13 as opposed to $0.50 for Unbreakable Formation. Consider is not strictly better than Opt, in many decks it is, but not strictly better. I also think there's a lot of time you overvalue the difference in 1 mana. Like for example; with the discussion surrounding Krosan Grip, you note that 'users only noticed that split second was relevant 10% of the time' - okay fair enough; how often is the difference between 2 cmc artifact/enchant removal relevant over 3 cmc? I would probably guess it's not as prevalent. It seems negligent to not even acknowledge that. And don't even get me started on "convoke is a huge discount" - yes, but what's the downside? Oh right, you just tapped two of your creatures as potential threats and/or blockers. Again, it just feels like this video cherry-picks a lot of examples
On the mana cost front: 1MV vs 2MV vs 3MV matters a lot. I've been downplaying a lot of flexible 3MV removal because while it's flexible, and instant, that is a lot of mana to keep open across opponent's turns. I've been favoring 1-2 MV removal spells a lot for interaction with less hit to my mana. Why for G I can Nature's Claim a threat away while still developing my board. This has also lead to more Lightning Axe for R and a card, or Heartless Act for 1B.
A card isn’t bad only because it doesn’t protect against Deluge + Rift + Farewell, but if I can pay the same amount of mana for a spell AND have it protect me from them, I will definitely do that instead almost every time
All of the “downsides” of village rites are the same “downsides” of skullclamp. If skullclamp is good, a 1 time skullclamp is good. Midnight reaper and grim haruspex don’t do anything in decks that are sacrificing tokens
I’m guessing people think split second “locks down the stack” because they’ve seen people protect their mana ability infinite combo with it. So, ironically, if *you’re* the one doing the Ashnod’s Altar loop, you can hold priority and Krosan Grip to stop players from responding with spells or activated abilities until you’re done.
@@spitfyre8661in the case of using Krosan grip to make it where only very specific things can interact when you have a phyrexian alter/ashbods alter loop, yes, it does.
Thats pretty interesting. Never thought of using split second that way. Since ahsnods altar ability is a mana ability in can be activated and triggered abilities can still happen.
One of the best things you are missing about Village Rites is that it reactively gives you something out of something that was going to die anyhow. Get cards from the chump blocker that was going to die or the attacking creature they blocked with something huge or with a deathtoucher. They aim spot removal, you kill your own thing and get cards, plus if they aimed Path or some other exile removal, the creature instead goes to your graveyard, which is always relevant in black. If your board is getting wiped, at least you gey cards as stuff dies. That is a lot of added versatility for one mana.
I had a moment once where on turn 6-ish, a player started playing like 6+ 0-cost mana rocks onto the board. Nobody responded at the start of this, so I think they felt safe from removal and went all-in with them. Then, they went to drop their Mana Vault. With that on the stack, I cast Heliod's Intervention and blew them all up hehe I play this card a lot since then :D
17:00 I agree with the general idea that surveil is better than scry, but there is one situation where you would rather Scry than Surveil: River Song decks. Scrying gives you brand new access to cards from your deck that surveil wouldn't.
About Krosan Grip. When the opponent casts Omniscience with counterspells in hand, you are gonna be glad you have that Krosan Grip instead of any "normal" enchantment removal.
While I 100 percent agree with your assessment regarding Opt (and if you mention Brainstorm later), I disagree with the assessments regarding Ponder and Preordain. These cards find answers. Scenario: You are playing Jeskai control (with perfect mana fixing) and have access to five mana at the beginning of the turn, and an elf deck came out of the gates swinging - they alone have eight creatures- and need a board wipe or way to prevent a lot of damage that deals at least 3 damage to each creature, because they have two 2/2 lords (so the lords are only giving the other +1/+1). Your deck runs seven cards that will help: Supreme Verdict, Fiery Confluence, Vanquish the Horde, Blasphemous Act, Brotherhood’s End, Ghostly Prison, and Propaganda. You: Cast Consider. Right now, you can bin the top card. You have a 15.5 percent chance of drawing one of those seven cards. *** But instead of drawing one of those seven cards, you draw Preordain. You cast it, but now you’re down to only three mana. Only five of the cards will now save you. Preodrain (if you bottom both cards, allows you to see three new cards). This gives you another 16.8 percent chance to have found a card that gets you out of the situation. But instead, you draw Ponder (and are down to two mana). Ponder, including the shuffle (assuming the card now on top was not a card you bottomed or shuffled away that turn). This gives you another 9.69 percent chance of finding an answer. *** Because you looked at so many cards, you had basically a 40 percent chance of getting out of that situation. Adding Git Prob adds even another card, increasing your chances. But Thought Scour and Mental Note draw blindly. *** And if anyone here says, “But Brainstorm looks at three cards, too! I don’t understand how it’s different than Ponder or Preprdain,” remember that if you put cards on top of your library, you are then looking at them again with Ponder and Preordain, therefore not seeing as many new cards.
People complaining about teferis protection because its lame or boring or overplayed is so wild. Oh no, how dare the player protect their board state against your wipes or removal by playing teferis pro or heroic intervention, etc. How dare they keep their board state in tact through your attempts to dismantle it so they can win because YOU wanted to win instead. It isn't teferis that wins the game, its the board that it protects. It isn't the game winning card anymore than casting counterspell is the game winning card against their wipe or removal, its just protection, its everything else that wins the game. But sure, blame the defensive protection spells for your salty loss lol..
Totally agree with you on reliquary tower, I also love it in green stompy decks (a lot of them) where you’re drawing BIG bursts of cards with your souls majesty kind of effects… great video as always, keep up the great work
I currently have 8 decks that have black in them… and 7 of those decks contain infernal grasp !!! 😆 Just put in an order to my local game store picked up 2 curtains call, and 4 lethal scheme. Not sure I’ll replace infernal grasp but those cards are definitely finding homes
As a mono white player, Flawless Maneuver has won me several games. I board wiped and holding priority cast it for free. One of the consistent ways white is able to win games.
At 16:34 you said people realized how strong the survail lands are compared to the scry temple’s but a major point of that power is the survail lands having their land types like forest island and being able to fetch them.
Barrier Breach is the same cost as Krosan Grip and exiles 3 enchantments at instant speed with cycling tacked on. It can be devastating. Downside is it doesn't hit artifacts.
tormenting voice and faithless looting are great for decks that use flashback or madness. because you want them in the graveyard so you can have access to more cards at once. using your graveyard as a second hand is the strategy . but if you are not benefiting from that, you are just putting cards you want into the graveyard and lessening your hand size. edit: Beezy i want to know your opinion on Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator and Ghostaway.
not only budget reasons, but teferi's pro is just so lame. idk how many times i've seen games decided by it whether in person or watching youtube. its SO BORING
I only see Tef Pro as auto include in mono white and maybe five color boardstate matters decks other than that I’d rather slot card draw or mass recursion personally
The blue cantrips are basically MDFC or modal cards which you seem to love, except instead of choosing between two below rate effects, you choose between the top few cards of your library
This doesn't work, because you are not looking at two (or more) specific cards, but random cards. In 60 cards format with 4x of each card, this logic holds. But looking at 2 random cards in your deck of 90 cards is essentially the same as drawing a random card. You are also paying above rate for these cards, as you need to count the cost of the cantrip. Inspiration is a lot worse than Quick Study, Cancel is a lot worse than Counterspell, Force of Will is basically unplayable if it costs U.
Curious where Smuggler’s Surprise and Final Showdown fit into the alternatives for Teferi's Protection. I like that these are similar to charms and you are getting the choice of indestructible but also using these instants which serve as other functions. Heroic Intervention is just playable, so why not have a modal version of this. Mass flickering or mass phasing is a cute party trick. Yet maybe its ok their exiling board wipe does beat out one of your charm’s modes.
I run heroic intervention and unbreakable formation, flawless maneuver in every deck that can run those colors. Those have saved my board so friggen much. Heroic Intervention has saved my single target permanents from spot removal even when i need them or against board wipes. Those are insurance policy cards really. I've foiled a lot of removal chances.
idk if theyre talking about cedh or what...ive been playin since 94, have cultivate in 29 of my decks with no plans to take them out. If i fall behind because i ramped on turn 3 then im in the wrong room.
@@moedark4390cultivate is ok. But there are better things to use. You can only play so much ramp. And we have things like harrow or entish restoration at 3 mana.
@@NitpickingNerds hell yeah man, literally I swear every video from yall I have a new revelation on how to look at cards, like the indestructible thing, you guys are so right there are soo many ways to get around that, Indestructible has gotten a bit worse haha, thanks as always for being the most enjoyable magic content on the internet!!
Unbreakable formation combos with vanquish the horde/ blasphemous act. 4-5 mana to one sided boardwipe and swing out extra hard with your go wide deck.
I use Unbreakable Formation almost always offensively in my ren and Siri deck, usually end game with a board wipe. With its price I’ll still always use it.
If you're looking for another way to save your creatures (especially tokens) and maybe don't like Cyclonic Rift? Guardian of Faith is amazing. It phases out your creatures, then returns to your hand in the case of mass bounce board wipes.
I think Lapse of Certainty and Reprieve are great ways to stave off boardwipes too. Then use your newfound allies to gang up on the wiper to prevent them from recasting it next turn! 😂
@@NitpickingNerds y'all should consider greater good for your ghalta deck, I think it might be budget enough again and that surge of cards is just amazing
I love how the Moxfield "bit" at the start has got so random. 🤣 Regular viewers know exactly what you mean. New viewers are like "Why is she calling me a liar? I can't guess what? What is going on?" 😯
what I find important about protection spells is that it also protects my non-creature permanents, Does anybody know more budget alternatives to clever concealment and flair of fortitude? I am fine paying mana for the effect.
I use unbreakable formation in go wide token decks where the vigilance and +1 counters are valuable too. Either a board wipe goes off and i protect my board (and then don't need the vigilance cuz there wont be any boards to protect against) Or i hit the swing point and the offensive mode is important And the alternative cards you listed all kill tokens right? Can tokens phase out or do they srop existing?
Opponents typically don't play stuff that you can respond to with removal during your main phase. They play it during combat or end steps. It seems like a pipedream to play Return to Dust as your opponent flashes in Dictate of Erebos in response to your sorcery speed creature removal.
I feel like I always take the wrong lesson from these videos but I had only considered the protection of unbreakable formation before but I do have a deck that would like the versatility of indestructible and vigilance as options in one card and I think I will try it offensively.
with all of the multicolor creatures in commander nowadays, I don't know if I could get behind taking out Infernal Grasp for Snuff Out.. I would want both
Clever concealment question: if you phase out your creatures (it doesn’t let you phase out or be protected), aren’t you left open to attack until your next turn if you e phased out your creatures?
Yes, creatures phase back in at the beginning of your untap step. Since you're the one making the decisions on what to phase, you can just phase less to keep up blockers. Really the biggest strength of CC and Teferi's Protection, is that you're turning your opponents board wipes into psuedo cyclonic rifts.
the idea is that you’re responding to a board wipe, so the board will be empty. This COULD be dicey if you think someone will then counter the board wipe, but you’re also in full control of what you phase out, so you can leave things in play to block still. Concealment is awesome!
@@NitpickingNerds I'd say in EDH it's not close to a Teferis. Nor is the price. Say you are 4:th in turn, player one has a lot of creatures and plays Cyclonic Rift overloaded in M1. You phase out your creatures. Unless there is a bigger threat on the table, you are in for an alpha strike. Everyone else has to rebuild and maybe discard some cards. So you're likely the threat on the table.
I think gitaxian probe is in a different class than ponder and preordain and the recommendation doesn't make sense in context. Git probe is good for deck thinning (not relevant in Commander), storm count, triggering magecraft, and checking for information before comboing. Ponder/preordain are card selection, which helps you find specific pieces by digging up to 3 cards deep. If you're keeping a 2 land hand with preordain you're not worried about finding your third land, but with gitprobe it's still a gamble since you only see 1 extra look instead of 3.
33:50 I bet a lot of people coming from Yu-Gi-Oh are thinking this. In Yu-Gi-Oh, you can't add to the stack once it starts resolving, and there are also cards with the equivalent of split second.
I run reliquary tower in *most* of my decks because regardless of strategy (barring graveyard strats) my philosophy is draw my deck = win? So like on average i draw like 50 cards a game minimum. Ive won on my upkeep with 0 cards left in my library and having all those cards to use is huge
When using unbreakable formation to protect against blasphemous act - you may be down mana against the red player but you could be way up on mana by protecting a board with 3+ mana invested into it
PSA: You probably don't need Reliquary Tower in your deck at all. 7 cards is probably enough and being able to hold more in case you draw them is probably not worth sacrificing the consistency of your mana base for.
yeah... thrill of possibility. I had that conversation - you pay 2 mana to exchange 2 cards, that sucks - yea but I can get rid of bad cards -yea but why not put a good card in place of thrill of p. in the 1st place -yea but but... eee ps. great idea for a video. I would watch part 2 for sure :)
I tried flawless maneuver for so long after pulling it. Literally never encountered a situation where it was "great" never stopped a boardwipe and had to get creative just to make it "okay" Real over it, and prefer cheap instants that just give a single creature hexoroof+indest above it now
I usually play Unbreakable Formation offensively. It's not really a great defensive card in my opinion... I play it, then after it resolves I attempt to play a Boardwipe myself.
Teferi's protection doesn't help against Voltron decks if their commander is the Voltron because it specifically says your life total doesn't change so the commander damage still applies it's full commander damage even if your life total doesn't change because it still dealt you the damage it deals as commander damage. At least it won't help if they are about to finish you off WITH commander damage that is.
Krosan Grip is a meta card, it's not accurate to just say "it only matters 10% of the time". For your playgroup, yes, but in another playgroup where combos are more prevalent it suddenly gets better. Or a meta where people play lots of counterspells, since split-second effectively reads "can't be countered". That was the main reason I've ever added Krosan Grip to my decks, not so much to stop loops. Also, surveil is NOT strictly better than scry, I wish you'd stop banging on about that. If you have recursion for the card type you pitched AND none of your opponents bog your GY, then yes surveil can be better, but that's hardly ALWAYS. What if you want the card to stay in your deck but don't want it in hand so you can pull it later with some effect? What if you don't want to let the other players know what the card you got rid of was? What if you're playing Grenzo?
Krosan Grip is only good because people do not understand split-second. I was told literally last night it shuts down my Norin's triggered ability when it clearly states it does not deal with triggers.
Correction Split second does see cEDH play, primarily in Angel's grace both as a way to just, not be restricted by life when ad nausing And to stop thassas wins
The reason the surveil lands are better than temples is not because scry is better than surveil, that is a very contextual thing. The reason they are better is because you can fetch them. If you could fetch temples they would see just as much play as the surveil lands. While there may be slightly more situations where surveil is better, there are lots of situations where it is worse as well. There are lots of cards in lots of decks that you do *not* want to put in your yard, if that is the card on top then surveil just sucked! That said, I do very much agree that the 'cheap blue cantrip' slot has a bunch of options and should definitely be customized to your deck. Have lots of creatures? Meeting of the MInds is awesome. Mill yourself or others alot...forget mental note...Visions of beyond might be basically ancestral recall for you, same thing with Treasure Cruise. Discard cards alot? Obsessive search doubles down for you. Can you use artifact tokens well? Deduce works! The list literally goes on and on and on. This is not even mentioning the true cantrips, where the spell has some small base effect not related to card drawing with draw a card stapled on. Leap, shadow rift, etc. Making the right choice on these sort of things is what makes some decks just better than others. While the blue cantrip example is a pretty easy one to illustrate because of the depth of options...this is something that you should be doing over and over again while building your decks!!!
The only decks i say cultivate is good in temur storm builds focusing on copying spells as there's so many ways to play multiple lands each turn in those builds. However still not the best version of this effect especially when there are better option on lower budget as well.
Flawless Maneuver is still good. I think You over think it a little - its not just the boardwipe protection, its a Combat Trick, and Target Remuval protecion. If you are playing deck that really need to have his commander in play, flawless is still good to have. Sure it will not protect from everytying, but target remuval is still a lot of destroy/dmg - more then board-wipes. On top of that Flawless is one of the easiest to pull of "in respond" to Yours board wipe and make it 1-side. I agree that Tefery Protection and Clever Concealment are better still, but for me Flawless is 3rd "mass protection" but it still a better card for "singel protection". On top of that we have now Flare of Fortitude that You didn mention (ant i think its the one that can replace Flawless maneuver - its still free even if cost You a creature, but the effect is much better and can be use as FOG if needed) ;) Galadriels Dismisal is amazing as offence trick that can be use as defence if really need - but most of time i really keep it to "kill" the most probelmatic player (at last in decks that likes to attack) - the option to use it as 1 mana remuval make it soooo good (even if it will only work for 1 turn, most of time if you play it proper - its more then enough to deal with problematic player). With the black removal i still dont get why people do not play more Dismember. Its a 1 mana kill spell that can kill 90% of creatures - I think ther is more times where something have indestrucible then 6/6 is the biggest problem on the board... If you mention snuff out - why not to mention Slaughter Pact , sure its weaker then Snuff Off, but its still a remuval that you can cast with 0 mana open - i think its better then all 2 mana black remuvals ;)
It's better them teffari protection in a lot of ways, sure it won't protect your face entierly buy if all your creatures are indestructible your able to protect your face from the real threats most times out 10, while not costing any mana, or a solid 3 mana if it comes to worst case scenario which is the same as tefari protection, meaning it's normally about the same card, except it can be retrieved from the graveyard, and played for free
Ponder, preordain etc are good in generic decks because they help you hit the Land drops. You don't want to be the guy who plays a turn 3 signet and no land.
How useful Cultivate is depends on when you want to ramp. A 5 mana commander? Heck yes, very reliable and always welcome. However in my Goreclaw deck which costs 4, I cut it in favor of 1-2 mana ramp spells.
That is definitely a factor as well! I feel like this video was so long but there’s still so much to cover 😂
So true. In my jinnie fay deck (3 cmc) I started using wild growth and utopia sprawl for the first time. Also prefer harrow over cultivate/kodamas but I include them to get me to my 7 cmc game enders
Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are SO good, criminally underplayed if you ask us!
@@NitpickingNerdswho cares make em long I listen to these as podcasts at work 😂
Building the right ramp package really is an art. You need to really understand what mana breakpoints you're going to care the most about. Sometimes, that means you want to curve bird-cultivate-5 mana commander. But that's not most decks.
Cultivate/Kodamas really is only worth their spots if your deck frequently goes 1-3-5 AND does not have reliable card draw/enough lands so that you need the land for land drops.
And if you really care about those land drops, I think I'd rather play You Happen on a Glade. Or even better, just play more MDFC lands to reach 40 or more lands without losing spells.
I would love to see you guys on Shuffle Up and Play. Is that something you two would be interested in??
Definitely! Love prof and his show 😄
@@NitpickingNerds Reach out y'all. I'm sure he would get you on in a heartbeat.
@@NitpickingNerds I would order a case of Grave Titans to see you guys on the Prof's show!
@@NitpickingNerdsi would burn all my copies of Grave Titan for this
I've got another alternative to Aetherize, it's Polymorphist's Jest. It can often fog an attack by turning all the attackers into vanilla 1/1s. It usually lets you block and kill their best creatures. And it often can be used proactively to turn off key creatures and stop a value engine for a turn.
"Loses all abilities" is such a good tool to have in commander
Love that card
Izzet Staticaster
since all creatures are **named** "Frog", you'll do a one-sided board wipe.
I feel lumping in ponder with opt and preordain is a bit misleading. For one mana what's essentially scry 3 draw a card is almost impossible to beat at that rate and can fix your draws for the first chunk of the game, making it a great pick for slower decks that need to assemble an engine carefully early or play for the later game and need their ramp and lands to keep coming. It's perhaps the only cantrip I'd ever recommend in a vacuum and the ability to shuffle as well has a multitude of benefits
It’s worse than scry 3
@@hanschristopherson8056 It's a side grade if not better for the shuffle
@@hanschristopherson8056how is it worse scry 3? It's literally scry 3 and if you don't like any of them just shuffle up
@@ghastlyghostiesshuffling isn't scry 3, scry implies you can choose if anything is worth keeping on top.
I'd also like to mention Connecting the Dots for red card draw. 2 mana for a Bomat Courier style effect triggering on any creature. If you're aggro at all in a red deck (likely) you can accrue an insane amount of cards in just a turn or two. Then either dump your hand or just wheel it away - this has regularly gotten me 7-10 cards over just 2 turns in Mr. House.
I think that card is pretty solid!
I feel like indestructible protection is very good in combat metas. It will offer unfavourable trades. It also keeps creatures on the board which has its own utility. It can force bad trades, protect an alpha strike, and avoid trample damage.
I really think that alpha strike protection is the important part. Field-wide indestructible plus vigilance plus a buff doesn't sound like board-wipe protection to me, it sounds like a Dolmen Gate effect that lets you crash your entire field forward and avoid every downside of doing so. Your creatures can't get destroyed in combat, you don't lose any blockers, and in a crowded board-state where nobody can attack safely (or in a deck that's power-heavy but toughness-light), that might be the exact effect that breaks parity and lets you start pushing for a win.
@@Quincunx_5 Absolutely. It's more proactive protection. It's still good in a bind maybe not as good as the fogs, flickerers, and phasers but they are almost always reactive only (Obscuring Haze being an exception).
It is costly but I also think people under value Indestructible at the moment. It means you can fire off one sided board wipes by going in on ones that destroy. So your opponents might keep some pieces but you have your whole board and they're indestructible. Which means you don't then have to wait a turn to capitalise on the one-sidedness.
Lae'Zels Acrobatics is actually a Non-bo in Mr. House decks, because it says "exile, *THEN* roll the d20.
Mr. House doesn't see the roll
Good alternatives to Reliquary Tower are the following: Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, or Forest
Surprised you didnt mention some of the best mono-red card draw. Like Mind’s Eye and The One Ring 😂
With all due respect, there's just a lot of terrible advice or just suggestions without context. A ton of cards are played because they are budget options. Saying that people should play Teferi's Protection or Clever Concealment over Unbreakable Formation is a no-brainer. But both of those cards are considerably more expensive; Teferi's is ~$45 and Clever Conceal is $13 as opposed to $0.50 for Unbreakable Formation. Consider is not strictly better than Opt, in many decks it is, but not strictly better. I also think there's a lot of time you overvalue the difference in 1 mana. Like for example; with the discussion surrounding Krosan Grip, you note that 'users only noticed that split second was relevant 10% of the time' - okay fair enough; how often is the difference between 2 cmc artifact/enchant removal relevant over 3 cmc? I would probably guess it's not as prevalent. It seems negligent to not even acknowledge that. And don't even get me started on "convoke is a huge discount" - yes, but what's the downside? Oh right, you just tapped two of your creatures as potential threats and/or blockers. Again, it just feels like this video cherry-picks a lot of examples
On the mana cost front: 1MV vs 2MV vs 3MV matters a lot. I've been downplaying a lot of flexible 3MV removal because while it's flexible, and instant, that is a lot of mana to keep open across opponent's turns. I've been favoring 1-2 MV removal spells a lot for interaction with less hit to my mana. Why for G I can Nature's Claim a threat away while still developing my board. This has also lead to more Lightning Axe for R and a card, or Heartless Act for 1B.
they started the entire video saying that budget is obviously a factor. did you just skip the intro or something?
Man the Nitpicking Nerds' "Dies to Doom Blade" is just "Doesn't protect against farewell". Swear it comes up in every video.
A card isn’t bad only because it doesn’t protect against Deluge + Rift + Farewell, but if I can pay the same amount of mana for a spell AND have it protect me from them, I will definitely do that instead almost every time
All of the “downsides” of village rites are the same “downsides” of skullclamp. If skullclamp is good, a 1 time skullclamp is good. Midnight reaper and grim haruspex don’t do anything in decks that are sacrificing tokens
I’m guessing people think split second “locks down the stack” because they’ve seen people protect their mana ability infinite combo with it. So, ironically, if *you’re* the one doing the Ashnod’s Altar loop, you can hold priority and Krosan Grip to stop players from responding with spells or activated abilities until you’re done.
It doesnt work that way though 😂
@@spitfyre8661in the case of using Krosan grip to make it where only very specific things can interact when you have a phyrexian alter/ashbods alter loop, yes, it does.
Thats pretty interesting. Never thought of using split second that way. Since ahsnods altar ability is a mana ability in can be activated and triggered abilities can still happen.
@@spitfyre8661in the case he is putting it, it does work that way.
Your chemistry is first rate! Keep crushing it and thanks for the advice.
One of the best things you are missing about Village Rites is that it reactively gives you something out of something that was going to die anyhow. Get cards from the chump blocker that was going to die or the attacking creature they blocked with something huge or with a deathtoucher. They aim spot removal, you kill your own thing and get cards, plus if they aimed Path or some other exile removal, the creature instead goes to your graveyard, which is always relevant in black. If your board is getting wiped, at least you gey cards as stuff dies. That is a lot of added versatility for one mana.
I had a moment once where on turn 6-ish, a player started playing like 6+ 0-cost mana rocks onto the board. Nobody responded at the start of this, so I think they felt safe from removal and went all-in with them. Then, they went to drop their Mana Vault. With that on the stack, I cast Heliod's Intervention and blew them all up hehe
I play this card a lot since then :D
17:00 I agree with the general idea that surveil is better than scry, but there is one situation where you would rather Scry than Surveil: River Song decks. Scrying gives you brand new access to cards from your deck that surveil wouldn't.
About Krosan Grip. When the opponent casts Omniscience with counterspells in hand, you are gonna be glad you have that Krosan Grip instead of any "normal" enchantment removal.
While I 100 percent agree with your assessment regarding Opt (and if you mention Brainstorm later), I disagree with the assessments regarding Ponder and Preordain. These cards find answers.
Scenario: You are playing Jeskai control (with perfect mana fixing) and have access to five mana at the beginning of the turn, and an elf deck came out of the gates swinging - they alone have eight creatures- and need a board wipe or way to prevent a lot of damage that deals at least 3 damage to each creature, because they have two 2/2 lords (so the lords are only giving the other +1/+1). Your deck runs seven cards that will help: Supreme Verdict, Fiery Confluence, Vanquish the Horde, Blasphemous Act, Brotherhood’s End, Ghostly Prison, and Propaganda.
You: Cast Consider. Right now, you can bin the top card. You have a 15.5 percent chance of drawing one of those seven cards.
***
But instead of drawing one of those seven cards, you draw Preordain. You cast it, but now you’re down to only three mana. Only five of the cards will now save you. Preodrain (if you bottom both cards, allows you to see three new cards). This gives you another 16.8 percent chance to have found a card that gets you out of the situation.
But instead, you draw Ponder (and are down to two mana). Ponder, including the shuffle (assuming the card now on top was not a card you bottomed or shuffled away that turn). This gives you another 9.69 percent chance of finding an answer.
***
Because you looked at so many cards, you had basically a 40 percent chance of getting out of that situation. Adding Git Prob adds even another card, increasing your chances. But Thought Scour and Mental Note draw blindly.
***
And if anyone here says, “But Brainstorm looks at three cards, too! I don’t understand how it’s different than Ponder or Preprdain,” remember that if you put cards on top of your library, you are then looking at them again with Ponder and Preordain, therefore not seeing as many new cards.
People complaining about teferis protection because its lame or boring or overplayed is so wild. Oh no, how dare the player protect their board state against your wipes or removal by playing teferis pro or heroic intervention, etc. How dare they keep their board state in tact through your attempts to dismantle it so they can win because YOU wanted to win instead. It isn't teferis that wins the game, its the board that it protects. It isn't the game winning card anymore than casting counterspell is the game winning card against their wipe or removal, its just protection, its everything else that wins the game. But sure, blame the defensive protection spells for your salty loss lol..
Totally agree with you on reliquary tower, I also love it in green stompy decks (a lot of them) where you’re drawing BIG bursts of cards with your souls majesty kind of effects… great video as always, keep up the great work
I currently have 8 decks that have black in them… and 7 of those decks contain infernal grasp !!! 😆
Just put in an order to my local game store picked up 2 curtains call, and 4 lethal scheme. Not sure I’ll replace infernal grasp but those cards are definitely finding homes
As a mono white player, Flawless Maneuver has won me several games. I board wiped and holding priority cast it for free. One of the consistent ways white is able to win games.
Village Rites is super strong with Clavileno vampire deck. Get to attack with a creature and get to draw 3 with clav out and an 4/3 flying demon
At 16:34 you said people realized how strong the survail lands are compared to the scry temple’s but a major point of that power is the survail lands having their land types like forest island and being able to fetch them.
Barrier Breach is the same cost as Krosan Grip and exiles 3 enchantments at instant speed with cycling tacked on. It can be devastating. Downside is it doesn't hit artifacts.
I think that card is pretty cool, I had it in the commander cube for a while!
tormenting voice and faithless looting are great for decks that use flashback or madness. because you want them in the graveyard so you can have access to more cards at once. using your graveyard as a second hand is the strategy . but if you are not benefiting from that, you are just putting cards you want into the graveyard and lessening your hand size. edit: Beezy i want to know your opinion on Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator and Ghostaway.
0.5 seconds! That’s the answer to how fast split second is!! 😂
Is it not 0.1 seconds? 👀
@@NitpickingNerds it's sp l it
@@NitpickingNerdsIf you split a second in half, that’s 0.5! But in a literal sense yeah it would be lol 😂
What happens if you cast a split second spell while you control Obeka, Splitter of Seconds though? How many times does she split it?
Brilliant video! Improved 5 cards in 2 decks for me. Love this type of videos
@@grahamoliver257 super glad it was helpful for you!
Beezy walking on so many eggshells to not call cultivate trash like it should be kek
not only budget reasons, but teferi's pro is just so lame. idk how many times i've seen games decided by it whether in person or watching youtube. its SO BORING
Agreed. I've seen it so many times on Game Knights and the person who casts it usually wins. It's super boring
whether or not a card is lame is a huge deciding factor for me to include a card, but it seems that not many people think this way
I don’t think there should ever be perfect protection or a perfect answer (farewell)
@@hanschristopherson8056farewell is fine in my opinion, but there never should be something even close to the power level of tp ever again
I only see Tef Pro as auto include in mono white and maybe five color boardstate matters decks other than that I’d rather slot card draw or mass recursion personally
Lae'zel's acrobatics is a nonbo with Mr House because it exiles everything first. He never sees the dice roll so he never triggers.
The blue cantrips are basically MDFC or modal cards which you seem to love, except instead of choosing between two below rate effects, you choose between the top few cards of your library
This is an incredible way to look so those cards.
This doesn't work, because you are not looking at two (or more) specific cards, but random cards. In 60 cards format with 4x of each card, this logic holds. But looking at 2 random cards in your deck of 90 cards is essentially the same as drawing a random card.
You are also paying above rate for these cards, as you need to count the cost of the cantrip. Inspiration is a lot worse than Quick Study, Cancel is a lot worse than Counterspell, Force of Will is basically unplayable if it costs U.
You're kind of just wrong. That logic would work on a tutor, not a cantrip.
Curious where Smuggler’s Surprise and Final Showdown fit into the alternatives for Teferi's Protection. I like that these are similar to charms and you are getting the choice of indestructible but also using these instants which serve as other functions. Heroic Intervention is just playable, so why not have a modal version of this.
Mass flickering or mass phasing is a cute party trick. Yet maybe its ok their exiling board wipe does beat out one of your charm’s modes.
I run heroic intervention and unbreakable formation, flawless maneuver in every deck that can run those colors. Those have saved my board so friggen much. Heroic Intervention has saved my single target permanents from spot removal even when i need them or against board wipes. Those are insurance policy cards really. I've foiled a lot of removal chances.
My best Joe Cherries impression🍒 “Buuuuut” cultivate is like 10 cents
but it's not, every printing is at least 50 cents on average, somehow...
not exactly expansive, but fucking how?!
idk if theyre talking about cedh or what...ive been playin since 94, have cultivate in 29 of my decks with no plans to take them out. If i fall behind because i ramped on turn 3 then im in the wrong room.
@@moedark4390cultivate is ok. But there are better things to use. You can only play so much ramp. And we have things like harrow or entish restoration at 3 mana.
How tf is harrow better unless you can play lands from a graveyard@@diegoperezsommariva2509
didn't know abouut Clifftop Lookout. that's certainly a card i'm gonna start to play
This is good content. More like this please
This is a killer idea, super excited to binge this video lolol
We go after some highly played stuff 😅
@@NitpickingNerds hell yeah man, literally I swear every video from yall I have a new revelation on how to look at cards, like the indestructible thing, you guys are so right there are soo many ways to get around that, Indestructible has gotten a bit worse haha, thanks as always for being the most enjoyable magic content on the internet!!
Unbreakable formation combos with vanquish the horde/ blasphemous act. 4-5 mana to one sided boardwipe and swing out extra hard with your go wide deck.
I use Unbreakable Formation almost always offensively in my ren and Siri deck, usually end game with a board wipe. With its price I’ll still always use it.
If you're looking for another way to save your creatures (especially tokens) and maybe don't like Cyclonic Rift? Guardian of Faith is amazing. It phases out your creatures, then returns to your hand in the case of mass bounce board wipes.
I think Lapse of Certainty and Reprieve are great ways to stave off boardwipes too. Then use your newfound allies to gang up on the wiper to prevent them from recasting it next turn! 😂
My favorite work around to Teferi's protection is to just attack my opponent that's blinked out with Lord Xander.
Laezels acrobatic goes absolutely bonkers in my genku brawl deck
You forgot about guardian of faith on the phase out protection. It is the cheaper (in terms of $$$) phase out protection we have atm
I think you missed bitter triumph for the removal spell option. It will also kill walkers.
I run reliquary tower in one deck, my ghalta primal hunger deck. I draw twelve cards or more every single turn.
Definitely makes sense with all the green power matters stuff, plus mono colored decks can play extra utility lands!
@@NitpickingNerds y'all should consider greater good for your ghalta deck, I think it might be budget enough again and that surge of cards is just amazing
I cast unbreaking formation offensively like 80% of the time. It's really super good in my human tokens deck.
Wait, you can respond to spells in the stack as they’re resolving even if they’ve already been responded too?! I had no idea it worked that way
Thrill is good in reanimator strategies.
I love how the Moxfield "bit" at the start has got so random. 🤣
Regular viewers know exactly what you mean.
New viewers are like "Why is she calling me a liar? I can't guess what? What is going on?" 😯
There is a player in my play group the LOVES aetherflux storm so split second is VERY worth the extra mana
Casting Aetherize for 1 blue with Mizzix out is a very good feeling 😊
i use semester's end and unbreakable formation aggressively in my shallai and hallar deck (it is super good if i have the Ozolith out)
Questing beast as a commander can kills you even with Teferi's protection casted.
what I find important about protection spells is that it also protects my non-creature permanents,
Does anybody know more budget alternatives to clever concealment and flair of fortitude? I am fine paying mana for the effect.
You left out Portent from the 1 blue cantrips. It is ponder, but you can choose whose library you manipulate.
I use unbreakable formation in go wide token decks where the vigilance and +1 counters are valuable too.
Either a board wipe goes off and i protect my board (and then don't need the vigilance cuz there wont be any boards to protect against)
Or i hit the swing point and the offensive mode is important
And the alternative cards you listed all kill tokens right? Can tokens phase out or do they srop existing?
Tokens can phase out, they don't actually leave the battlefield
Nice video guys. With Curtain's call, if one of the targets dies(/leaves the bf) before resolution, doesn't the spell fizzle? The "Decimate" problem?
This is a really handy video i plan to go back to multiple times
Beezy did you get married? **looking at ring on finger**
Beezy and Mia are engaged
It’s true, we are engaged!
@@NitpickingNerds well congrats 🎉.
I don't play Return to Dust but isn't there an opportunity that you play it in response during your main phase making it still instant speed?
Opponents typically don't play stuff that you can respond to with removal during your main phase. They play it during combat or end steps. It seems like a pipedream to play Return to Dust as your opponent flashes in Dictate of Erebos in response to your sorcery speed creature removal.
Aetherize has the advantage of not targeting anything. Gets around all protection for players and creatures.
I feel like I always take the wrong lesson from these videos but I had only considered the protection of unbreakable formation before but I do have a deck that would like the versatility of indestructible and vigilance as options in one card and I think I will try it offensively.
good finds in the Black Removal dept
with all of the multicolor creatures in commander nowadays, I don't know if I could get behind taking out Infernal Grasp for Snuff Out.. I would want both
Clever concealment is BEYOND goated lmao
So glad I snatched a few copies up because I'm pretty much a white mage in commander
Clever concealment question: if you phase out your creatures (it doesn’t let you phase out or be protected), aren’t you left open to attack until your next turn if you e phased out your creatures?
I think it's until the next endstep, so your creatures phase in before your next turn.
Yes, creatures phase back in at the beginning of your untap step. Since you're the one making the decisions on what to phase, you can just phase less to keep up blockers. Really the biggest strength of CC and Teferi's Protection, is that you're turning your opponents board wipes into psuedo cyclonic rifts.
the idea is that you’re responding to a board wipe, so the board will be empty. This COULD be dicey if you think someone will then counter the board wipe, but you’re also in full control of what you phase out, so you can leave things in play to block still. Concealment is awesome!
@@NitpickingNerds I'd say in EDH it's not close to a Teferis. Nor is the price. Say you are 4:th in turn, player one has a lot of creatures and plays Cyclonic Rift overloaded in M1. You phase out your creatures.
Unless there is a bigger threat on the table, you are in for an alpha strike. Everyone else has to rebuild and maybe discard some cards. So you're likely the threat on the table.
With krozen grip you can use it in the decks that use the mana abilities to go off without anyone responding
You can also do that with angels grace for 1 mana, and is a card that ACTUALLY ruins opponents wins
@@V2ULTRAKill so run both for redundancy
I think gitaxian probe is in a different class than ponder and preordain and the recommendation doesn't make sense in context. Git probe is good for deck thinning (not relevant in Commander), storm count, triggering magecraft, and checking for information before comboing. Ponder/preordain are card selection, which helps you find specific pieces by digging up to 3 cards deep. If you're keeping a 2 land hand with preordain you're not worried about finding your third land, but with gitprobe it's still a gamble since you only see 1 extra look instead of 3.
33:50 I bet a lot of people coming from Yu-Gi-Oh are thinking this. In Yu-Gi-Oh, you can't add to the stack once it starts resolving, and there are also cards with the equivalent of split second.
10:12 Lae'zel doesn't work in Mr house decks!! it exile's the creatures before rolling any dice so Mr House doesn't see it
Flawless maneuver is cracked like rock
I run reliquary tower in *most* of my decks because regardless of strategy (barring graveyard strats) my philosophy is draw my deck = win? So like on average i draw like 50 cards a game minimum. Ive won on my upkeep with 0 cards left in my library and having all those cards to use is huge
When using unbreakable formation to protect against blasphemous act - you may be down mana against the red player but you could be way up on mana by protecting a board with 3+ mana invested into it
PSA: You probably don't need Reliquary Tower in your deck at all. 7 cards is probably enough and being able to hold more in case you draw them is probably not worth sacrificing the consistency of your mana base for.
yeah... thrill of possibility. I had that conversation
- you pay 2 mana to exchange 2 cards, that sucks
- yea but I can get rid of bad cards
-yea but why not put a good card in place of thrill of p. in the 1st place
-yea but but... eee
ps. great idea for a video. I would watch part 2 for sure :)
I'm wondering what you guys think about this. Which is stronger, hexproof or indestructible? Personally I think hexproof
Thrill of possibility and tormenting voice are great targets to copy!
I think at that point I’d love to just be doing Unexpected Windfall and Big Score too
I actually mostly use Unbreakable Formation for the supposedly final attack!
i mean i know its not the best, but when 3 people in your play group all play underworld breach combos krosen grip is kind of a must
I think you could try things like Manglehorn and Dauntless Dismantler against that instead, totally shuts down dockside or LEDs or other loops
ill think about the mangle horn, the issue is most the answers you suggested are... white... the one color i absolutely despise and almost never play
Indestructible deserves more respect! Clever Concealment is fire though.
I tried flawless maneuver for so long after pulling it. Literally never encountered a situation where it was "great" never stopped a boardwipe and had to get creative just to make it "okay"
Real over it, and prefer cheap instants that just give a single creature hexoroof+indest above it now
26:17, this kind of makes your point that it isn't actual card draw pointless.
I usually play Unbreakable Formation offensively. It's not really a great defensive card in my opinion... I play it, then after it resolves I attempt to play a Boardwipe myself.
Teferi's protection doesn't help against Voltron decks if their commander is the Voltron because it specifically says your life total doesn't change so the commander damage still applies it's full commander damage even if your life total doesn't change because it still dealt you the damage it deals as commander damage. At least it won't help if they are about to finish you off WITH commander damage that is.
i have a hard time explaining that too people. glad someone said it
Krosan Grip is a meta card, it's not accurate to just say "it only matters 10% of the time". For your playgroup, yes, but in another playgroup where combos are more prevalent it suddenly gets better. Or a meta where people play lots of counterspells, since split-second effectively reads "can't be countered". That was the main reason I've ever added Krosan Grip to my decks, not so much to stop loops.
Also, surveil is NOT strictly better than scry, I wish you'd stop banging on about that. If you have recursion for the card type you pitched AND none of your opponents bog your GY, then yes surveil can be better, but that's hardly ALWAYS. What if you want the card to stay in your deck but don't want it in hand so you can pull it later with some effect? What if you don't want to let the other players know what the card you got rid of was? What if you're playing Grenzo?
8:20 Teferi's protection is not very good against Voltron decks. It doesn't stop commander damage.
Only if the damage can't be prevented
I don’t think the damage actually goes through since you have protection from creatures
The funniest unforeseen interaction with Teferi's protection is when someone else has Sands of Time out.
Krosan Grip is only good because people do not understand split-second. I was told literally last night it shuts down my Norin's triggered ability when it clearly states it does not deal with triggers.
This is weird, but, I've never seen Sundering Vitae before... 🤔 Gonna have to buy a few copies
Correction
Split second does see cEDH play, primarily in Angel's grace both as a way to just, not be restricted by life when ad nausing
And to stop thassas wins
The reason the surveil lands are better than temples is not because scry is better than surveil, that is a very contextual thing. The reason they are better is because you can fetch them. If you could fetch temples they would see just as much play as the surveil lands. While there may be slightly more situations where surveil is better, there are lots of situations where it is worse as well. There are lots of cards in lots of decks that you do *not* want to put in your yard, if that is the card on top then surveil just sucked!
That said, I do very much agree that the 'cheap blue cantrip' slot has a bunch of options and should definitely be customized to your deck. Have lots of creatures? Meeting of the MInds is awesome. Mill yourself or others alot...forget mental note...Visions of beyond might be basically ancestral recall for you, same thing with Treasure Cruise. Discard cards alot? Obsessive search doubles down for you. Can you use artifact tokens well? Deduce works! The list literally goes on and on and on. This is not even mentioning the true cantrips, where the spell has some small base effect not related to card drawing with draw a card stapled on. Leap, shadow rift, etc. Making the right choice on these sort of things is what makes some decks just better than others. While the blue cantrip example is a pretty easy one to illustrate because of the depth of options...this is something that you should be doing over and over again while building your decks!!!
Unbreakable is played because it's the cheapest
The only decks i say cultivate is good in temur storm builds focusing on copying spells as there's so many ways to play multiple lands each turn in those builds. However still not the best version of this effect especially when there are better option on lower budget as well.
Is Shadow coming back?
Flawless Maneuver is still good. I think You over think it a little - its not just the boardwipe protection, its a Combat Trick, and Target Remuval protecion. If you are playing deck that really need to have his commander in play, flawless is still good to have. Sure it will not protect from everytying, but target remuval is still a lot of destroy/dmg - more then board-wipes. On top of that Flawless is one of the easiest to pull of "in respond" to Yours board wipe and make it 1-side. I agree that Tefery Protection and Clever Concealment are better still, but for me Flawless is 3rd "mass protection" but it still a better card for "singel protection". On top of that we have now Flare of Fortitude that You didn mention (ant i think its the one that can replace Flawless maneuver - its still free even if cost You a creature, but the effect is much better and can be use as FOG if needed) ;) Galadriels Dismisal is amazing as offence trick that can be use as defence if really need - but most of time i really keep it to "kill" the most probelmatic player (at last in decks that likes to attack) - the option to use it as 1 mana remuval make it soooo good (even if it will only work for 1 turn, most of time if you play it proper - its more then enough to deal with problematic player).
With the black removal i still dont get why people do not play more Dismember. Its a 1 mana kill spell that can kill 90% of creatures - I think ther is more times where something have indestrucible then 6/6 is the biggest problem on the board... If you mention snuff out - why not to mention Slaughter Pact , sure its weaker then Snuff Off, but its still a remuval that you can cast with 0 mana open - i think its better then all 2 mana black remuvals ;)
It's better them teffari protection in a lot of ways, sure it won't protect your face entierly buy if all your creatures are indestructible your able to protect your face from the real threats most times out 10, while not costing any mana, or a solid 3 mana if it comes to worst case scenario which is the same as tefari protection, meaning it's normally about the same card, except it can be retrieved from the graveyard, and played for free
I'm surprised you didn't mention Ghostway as a substitute for Unbreakable Formation.
That’s fair, it’s another great substitute!
@@NitpickingNerds And Guardian of Faith!
Ponder, preordain etc are good in generic decks because they help you hit the Land drops. You don't want to be the guy who plays a turn 3 signet and no land.
That's why you make everyone sacrifice their creatures
If my cards don't eat at 4 mana I don't cook them. Words to live by.