Hey Paulo, you're right it is Heading (which direction you're pointing with 0 being due North). Bearing would be used to say which direction something else is at, such as 'enemy ship bearing 320 degrees'.
Just an FYI. the Giant Playing Mat is $33 to buy, but FREE FOR Kickstarter Backers. You can also upgrade the playmat from latex to 2mm thick eco leather.
I backed the computer game version by the same people which I think has many of the same mini games and challenges, but with much of the rules and checking done by the computer. This looks like each player has a lot to do in a 4 player game, with fewer I think each player would be overloaded with tasks with the clock always running.
Tried this at UKGE. I didn't get to do a whole lot but it seemed promising. Something I don't understand though: when you change shift, why is it not a given that the person being relieved gets to rest? That doesn't make any sense. If a sailor is repairing something, why is it that when his colleague relieves him and takes over the repair, the first sailor cannot rest and recover his actions. Perhaps I misunderstood, but that was what you seemed to say.
every time a shift changes, you remove one token from the guy on the old shift, so he is resting (he's got one more action slot for the shift). that removed disc is either a standard work disc which comes off the board completely, or it's a 'continuing work' disc that goes to the new shift guy. but either way, the old guy has one fewer disc.
6:24 "oficcer"? EDIT: it looked amazing until the smartphone app part... I would have much preferred a system of rules for how the enemy works. I still wish them good luck with the kickstarter
The number of variables to manage here would be a bit much for a human simulating it, I think (I'm thinking of how boring it would be to simulate even a simple set of rules like Alchemists). Or else you could make the game competitive and have two crew - but then I guess Captain Sonar captures that type of play. This is one of those places where the app isn't some additional way of telling you the rules or how X will work (think Mansions of Madness), but actually integrates as part of play because it is generating rules for the AI in real time. The integration of the app is, in my opinion, quite seamless. But each to their own!
apps are forever, which is i can still play the videogames of my childhood from the 70's. with emulators, apps never go away. that said, the developers have pledged that if they ever go out of business, they'll release the apps source code publicly so it can be maintained by fans. it's simply not an issue.
who cares? if it works today, there'll be ways to make it work 30 years from now. software never goes away. there's a miniature tabletop war game that came out a few years ago that was super heavily app integrated, and the game developer went out of business, and the fans of the game took over and found a way to continue to make the app work, so it's still available now. this is what will always happen... i can play emulated versions of atari 2600 games from my childhood (over 30 years ago) right now if i want. and 30 years from now, it won't be the software availability that prevents you from playing uboot, it will be mold or missing pieces of your physical game.
Yeh I thinks he means Ur voice, ! It's kinda fast and excited, which sadly doesn't fit the subject, justice saying, ps I've fully enjoyed all your thoughts/reviews, m8 👍😎🌿
I was going to pledge to this game as it looked good, but as an ex submariner, listening to guy who has absolutely no idea how a boat is run just put me off, or the people who designed the game have no idea about the chain of command, and the watchkeepig sytem on boats, standard is four hour watches, 6 hr watches are an American thing. Uboats spent most of their time on the surface, they only dived to attack, they didn't have the battery power to spend more than a couple of hours under surface at a time. A good idea FUBARed by lack of research
Well, I'm afraid it is more about you not taking the time to study the game more closely ;) All the things that you speak of are, in fact, a part of the game and they are modeled after proven sources. The VIIC indeed traveled mostly on the surface, as diving cut its speed by about a half. And yes, it had batteries that allowed it to stay submerged for a maximum of 18 hours. As for the chain of command, then formulating a clear argument would help understand what you think is wrong about it :) I will be glad to learn. Regardless, I understand it is easier to bash the game without conducting an in-depth study :) To give you a better view of how things really are, I recommend taking a look at the tactical guide included with it. It is still WIP, but I believe it addressses at least some of the issues you were so kind to raise: www.dropbox.com/s/ixf0nl5s1ctxbvi/Uboot-TacticalGuide-PRV-290118-SP.pdf?dl=0 If you have anything more to add on the subject, I am more than willing to discuss any and all aspects of the game :) Cheers!
Gald to read the reply, if the Captain were the only one to give orders on a boat he would never sleep, there are such things as daily routines that do not require orders, Chefs know when to cook food, and how much to cook, Engineers ( coloquially Stokers and Artificers) know when something needs a repair, in fact the Engineering officer is more likely to tell the Captain of repairs that are needed, rather than the other way round, it would be reported to the Engineers by the person in charge of the torpedo room. When running on the surface, or below water, there would only be one person in the engine room, the ballast would not require two people, in fact they would get in each others way, U boats were small, space was limited, you can't have crowds of people in the control room, and not having the Captain be able to operate the scope is laughable, what happens when he is dived and attacking a ship, it is the Captain of the boat who 'ranges the attack' not a 'sailor' ! As I said this is American in it's way of thinking and setting out, it needs tweaking to the German perspective, perhaps watching the 'Das Boot' series would be a good starting point.
Right, as I have said, it would have helped if you knew the game better. First of all, the 'Captain' player has two watches under his command. One has the captain, and the other one doesn't. So yes, the captain also goes to sleep on every other watch. As for the 'everyone knows his job' argument, then well... You would never have to do any decision in a wargame, right? Why would you even have to decide where to send your guys since their team/platoon leader has received the orders and he whould know what to do? C'mon, let's be reasonable for a while ;) The next thing you mention is ballast... Well, if you think that a single operator could do it all, then I suggest you do a little reading: www.uboatarchive.net/Manual/Manual.htm There were all sorts of valves for the ballast tanks, actually in each compartment of the VIIC. We had to somehow simplify things and confine those to the Zentral (where there were most of these). And, following your advice, please have a look at the crash dive scene in Das Boot and tell me how many people you see operating valves of all sorts. With just one person handling all that, their dive time would be 30 minutes, not 30 seconds. As far as recommendations regarding 'watchnig Das Boot' are concerned, then yeah... It is accurate to a certain degree, but there are much better sources than that. And, as I think you do realize, there has to be border between realism and game experience. I, for one, would like 100% realism everywhere as I don't like simplifications. Therefore, while our game simplifies and streamlines certain phenomena, then I believe that calling it FUBARed and saying that the designers 'have no idea' is going way too far. But that's only my opinion. Oh, and as regards recommendations for research, then I suggest you do some more reading, as watches on German U-boats were much more complicated, as there were three different shifts and some crew members had longer watches than others. But again, that would only clutter the game and when it comes to realism vs gameplay, then gameplay always has to come first. And that is, I guess, the underlying issue with your approach to the subject.
First, a crash dive situation is totally different to a standard dive operation, in a crash dive it's 'all hands to the pumps' so to speak. As for a normal dive, a ballast tank only has two valves one is to open the vents, the other is to allow compressed air into the tanks to allow the boat to surface. the tanks are actually open to the sea via gratings, the vents are opened to allow air out and sea water in, causing the boat to submerge, to surface the vents are closed and compressed air forced into the tanks. Loss of fresh water and therefore changes to the trim of the boat are done through the compensating tanks, discharge of torpedoes is done automatically by the torpedo compensating tanks, (the water in the flooded tube is pushed into the tanks by the air used to eject the torpedo) Oh and no boat can dive in 30seconds, a dive, ( even a crash dive, has to be controlled), what you actually see on films is done for 'dramatic effect' ( Even on Das Boat) doing that way can result in a uncontrolled dive,m and no ammount of effort from the fwd and aft planesmen can cope with that. On to the subject of watches, standard watches are split into Dogs, Middle, Forenoon, and Afternoon, First, Morning, to aid all the crew to get fed in the evening, the Dog watches were split into two hour watches, this is a three watch system, not six hour watches, as you would do Dogs, Middle Forenoon, then a complete rest period until the next afternoon, depending on your part of ship, in the time you were off you would take rest, and perform routine tasks, clean the boat, maintenance etc. Manuals are all well and good, and they are written for an ideal world, unfortunately being underwater is not an ideal world, having a man go sick ( which frequently happened on patrols) means everyone else has to get on with it, and work that little bit harder. As for 'everyone nows his job' well yes they do, every sailor surface or submariner has a 'part of ship' (POS) that is his normal workplace, he also has a POS for Action Stations, Entering and leaving harbour etc, he knows what times he can eat, drink and sleep, without being ordered to. It's called 'Daily Running. My underlying issue with the game is that I am a submariner, I have served on diesel boats, the U boat equivalent, and on modern nuclear boats, so I feel I have a better understanding of how they work than someone who has to rely on 'research'. As I said, having lived worked and been at sea for months on end on in these type of boats, the game bears no resemblance at all to what is or has been portrayed on screen, ( Das Boat is recognised as being the 'best' of the bunch by all submariners).
I'm sorry but Rahdo's videos annoy me because he needs to steady the camera and have some kind of outline to follow. Most of his gameplay explanations are so scatterbrained that it's almost impossible for people to follow if you don't already know the game. So it's useless for people new to the games.
Watching das boot in the original language is a must for playing this game.
Hey Paulo, you're right it is Heading (which direction you're pointing with 0 being due North). Bearing would be used to say which direction something else is at, such as 'enemy ship bearing 320 degrees'.
Just an FYI. the Giant Playing Mat is $33 to buy, but FREE FOR Kickstarter Backers. You can also upgrade the playmat from latex to 2mm thick eco leather.
Does the instructions tell you which university you have to go to, to learn how to play this game?
a naval academy of your choice :)
I backed the computer game version by the same people which I think has many of the same mini games and challenges, but with much of the rules and checking done by the computer.
This looks like each player has a lot to do in a 4 player game, with fewer I think each player would be overloaded with tasks with the clock always running.
Life is already complicated as it is, and you need to play a game like this too. ROFL!
That is so funny Zero. Also I love the premise of the game but where would I find people to play this?
The captain miniature is a pentagon, not a hexagon
Stop the video! Search for the soundtrack/theme song of "Das Boot"! Play it in the background! Continue this video!
There should be kickstarter goal to make the app talking with Jürgen's Prochnow voice.
Type VIIc U-boat
thank you! :)
Tried this at UKGE. I didn't get to do a whole lot but it seemed promising. Something I don't understand though: when you change shift, why is it not a given that the person being relieved gets to rest? That doesn't make any sense. If a sailor is repairing something, why is it that when his colleague relieves him and takes over the repair, the first sailor cannot rest and recover his actions.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but that was what you seemed to say.
every time a shift changes, you remove one token from the guy on the old shift, so he is resting (he's got one more action slot for the shift). that removed disc is either a standard work disc which comes off the board completely, or it's a 'continuing work' disc that goes to the new shift guy. but either way, the old guy has one fewer disc.
Get well soon, beagle-boy!
6:24 "oficcer"?
EDIT: it looked amazing until the smartphone app part... I would have much preferred a system of rules for how the enemy works. I still wish them good luck with the kickstarter
The number of variables to manage here would be a bit much for a human simulating it, I think (I'm thinking of how boring it would be to simulate even a simple set of rules like Alchemists). Or else you could make the game competitive and have two crew - but then I guess Captain Sonar captures that type of play. This is one of those places where the app isn't some additional way of telling you the rules or how X will work (think Mansions of Madness), but actually integrates as part of play because it is generating rules for the AI in real time. The integration of the app is, in my opinion, quite seamless. But each to their own!
I believe when the shift changes, u also have to reset the captains orders.... i think
every other shift change, that happens (on the 3 bells)
oh...ok
Hey everybody! :D
Live on kickstarter now. Raised £175,000 in the first hour!
Someone needs to actually find a submarine crew to play this just for the lols of how easy it would be for them.
If life gives you lemons... you have to cook them :D
it's all about the bier. Prost!
Do the developers address how long until the app will be supported?
apps are forever, which is i can still play the videogames of my childhood from the 70's. with emulators, apps never go away.
that said, the developers have pledged that if they ever go out of business, they'll release the apps source code publicly so it can be maintained by fans.
it's simply not an issue.
rahdo fair enough, thank you for the review and information
but how long will they support and update the app?
who cares? if it works today, there'll be ways to make it work 30 years from now. software never goes away. there's a miniature tabletop war game that came out a few years ago that was super heavily app integrated, and the game developer went out of business, and the fans of the game took over and found a way to continue to make the app work, so it's still available now.
this is what will always happen... i can play emulated versions of atari 2600 games from my childhood (over 30 years ago) right now if i want. and 30 years from now, it won't be the software availability that prevents you from playing uboot, it will be mold or missing pieces of your physical game.
I always watch Rahdo, but videos like this just nauseates me
if you check the show notes of almost all my videos, you'll find links to a static camera version of the same runthrough...
Yeh I thinks he means Ur voice, ! It's kinda fast and excited, which sadly doesn't fit the subject, justice saying, ps I've fully enjoyed all your thoughts/reviews, m8 👍😎🌿
they are called Hydrophones.
You should turn on the subtitles on the "Klingon" channel as he says in the beginning. He corrects that mistake there.
ooops my bad. :)
I was going to pledge to this game as it looked good, but as an ex submariner, listening to guy who has absolutely no idea how a boat is run just put me off, or the people who designed the game have no idea about the chain of command, and the watchkeepig sytem on boats, standard is four hour watches, 6 hr watches are an American thing. Uboats spent most of their time on the surface, they only dived to attack, they didn't have the battery power to spend more than a couple of hours under surface at a time. A good idea FUBARed by lack of research
Well, I'm afraid it is more about you not taking the time to study the game more closely ;) All the things that you speak of are, in fact, a part of the game and they are modeled after proven sources. The VIIC indeed traveled mostly on the surface, as diving cut its speed by about a half. And yes, it had batteries that allowed it to stay submerged for a maximum of 18 hours. As for the chain of command, then formulating a clear argument would help understand what you think is wrong about it :) I will be glad to learn.
Regardless, I understand it is easier to bash the game without conducting an in-depth study :) To give you a better view of how things really are, I recommend taking a look at the tactical guide included with it. It is still WIP, but I believe it addressses at least some of the issues you were so kind to raise:
www.dropbox.com/s/ixf0nl5s1ctxbvi/Uboot-TacticalGuide-PRV-290118-SP.pdf?dl=0
If you have anything more to add on the subject, I am more than willing to discuss any and all aspects of the game :)
Cheers!
Gald to read the reply, if the Captain were the only one to give orders on a boat he would never sleep, there are such things as daily routines that do not require orders, Chefs know when to cook food, and how much to cook, Engineers ( coloquially Stokers and Artificers) know when something needs a repair, in fact the Engineering officer is more likely to tell the Captain of repairs that are needed, rather than the other way round, it would be reported to the Engineers by the person in charge of the torpedo room. When running on the surface, or below water, there would only be one person in the engine room, the ballast would not require two people, in fact they would get in each others way, U boats were small, space was limited, you can't have crowds of people in the control room, and not having the Captain be able to operate the scope is laughable, what happens when he is dived and attacking a ship, it is the Captain of the boat who 'ranges the attack' not a 'sailor' ! As I said this is American in it's way of thinking and setting out, it needs tweaking to the German perspective, perhaps watching the 'Das Boot' series would be a good starting point.
Right, as I have said, it would have helped if you knew the game better. First of all, the 'Captain' player has two watches under his command. One has the captain, and the other one doesn't. So yes, the captain also goes to sleep on every other watch.
As for the 'everyone knows his job' argument, then well... You would never have to do any decision in a wargame, right? Why would you even have to decide where to send your guys since their team/platoon leader has received the orders and he whould know what to do? C'mon, let's be reasonable for a while ;)
The next thing you mention is ballast... Well, if you think that a single operator could do it all, then I suggest you do a little reading:
www.uboatarchive.net/Manual/Manual.htm
There were all sorts of valves for the ballast tanks, actually in each compartment of the VIIC. We had to somehow simplify things and confine those to the Zentral (where there were most of these). And, following your advice, please have a look at the crash dive scene in Das Boot and tell me how many people you see operating valves of all sorts. With just one person handling all that, their dive time would be 30 minutes, not 30 seconds.
As far as recommendations regarding 'watchnig Das Boot' are concerned, then yeah... It is accurate to a certain degree, but there are much better sources than that. And, as I think you do realize, there has to be border between realism and game experience. I, for one, would like 100% realism everywhere as I don't like simplifications.
Therefore, while our game simplifies and streamlines certain phenomena, then I believe that calling it FUBARed and saying that the designers 'have no idea' is going way too far. But that's only my opinion.
Oh, and as regards recommendations for research, then I suggest you do some more reading, as watches on German U-boats were much more complicated, as there were three different shifts and some crew members had longer watches than others. But again, that would only clutter the game and when it comes to realism vs gameplay, then gameplay always has to come first.
And that is, I guess, the underlying issue with your approach to the subject.
First, a crash dive situation is totally different to a standard dive operation, in a crash dive it's 'all hands to the pumps' so to speak. As for a normal dive, a ballast tank only has two valves one is to open the vents, the other is to allow compressed air into the tanks to allow the boat to surface. the tanks are actually open to the sea via gratings, the vents are opened to allow air out and sea water in, causing the boat to submerge, to surface the vents are closed and compressed air forced into the tanks. Loss of fresh water and therefore changes to the trim of the boat are done through the compensating tanks, discharge of torpedoes is done automatically by the torpedo compensating tanks, (the water in the flooded tube is pushed into the tanks by the air used to eject the torpedo) Oh and no boat can dive in 30seconds, a dive, ( even a crash dive, has to be controlled), what you actually see on films is done for 'dramatic effect' ( Even on Das Boat) doing that way can result in a uncontrolled dive,m and no ammount of effort from the fwd and aft planesmen can cope with that. On to the subject of watches, standard watches are split into Dogs, Middle, Forenoon, and Afternoon, First, Morning, to aid all the crew to get fed in the evening, the Dog watches were split into two hour watches, this is a three watch system, not six hour watches, as you would do Dogs, Middle Forenoon, then a complete rest period until the next afternoon, depending on your part of ship, in the time you were off you would take rest, and perform routine tasks, clean the boat, maintenance etc. Manuals are all well and good, and they are written for an ideal world, unfortunately being underwater is not an ideal world, having a man go sick ( which frequently happened on patrols) means everyone else has to get on with it, and work that little bit harder. As for 'everyone nows his job' well yes they do, every sailor surface or submariner has a 'part of ship' (POS) that is his normal workplace, he also has a POS for Action Stations, Entering and leaving harbour etc, he knows what times he can eat, drink and sleep, without being ordered to. It's called 'Daily Running. My underlying issue with the game is that I am a submariner, I have served on diesel boats, the U boat equivalent, and on modern nuclear boats, so I feel I have a better understanding of how they work than someone who has to rely on 'research'. As I said, having lived worked and been at sea for months on end on in these type of boats, the game bears no resemblance at all to what is or has been portrayed on screen, ( Das Boat is recognised as being the 'best' of the bunch by all submariners).
This is an excellent conversation , thanks 👍
how's the dog?
on the mend, no longer wearing the cone of shame :)
Is this about the bismark?
Welp, u gon lose
8:40
I see what you did there...
I'm sorry but Rahdo's videos annoy me because he needs to steady the camera and have some kind of outline to follow. Most of his gameplay explanations are so scatterbrained that it's almost impossible for people to follow if you don't already know the game. So it's useless for people new to the games.
Kinda 👍😎
Lol, 'engeener'
I would rather play Silent Hunter 3 on PC.
Especially SH III for sure.
Not for my group. Ambitious, but nope. Also, torpedo-ing allies? Not on this side of the pond.