Welcome back! With the restrictions on outdoor activities lifting Scotty finally gets a chance to take Dave's EVO for a spin and explain all the different boost control options available to you on an aftermarket ECU. With the car on a dyno we then get to see how to correctly set up the "Boost by Gear" function and how it works in real life. NOTE: This is a long, technical video, if you want to jump into a particular section, use the shortcuts below: 00:00 - intro 00:00 - why you need boost control 03:10 - different types of boost control 04:40 - setting up boost by gear 11:30 - setting up target boost levels 18:00 - setting up long term trim tables 22:50 - data logging setup for the dyno runs 24:00 - dyno runs 32:00 - wrap-up Here are the videos Scott references: How to Control Your Horsepower: ua-cam.com/video/9cU6jXUROT4/v-deo.html How Transient Fuel Enrichment Works: ua-cam.com/video/DMT9kVO7fUU/v-deo.html How Dyno Tuning Works: ua-cam.com/video/rkcYDrwaJBg/v-deo.html
Only watching this now as I binge a bunch of the haltech videos while setting up my Elite 2500, but I think Scott explained the PID very well. I also feel like Haltech do a great job of providing good information, never be afraid of getting 'too technical' because it helps massively with understanding and I think most people using Haltech products are into it.
I’ve had run ins with PID control before but never understood it as much as I do after this video. Thank you, can’t wait for the dedicated vid on that topic.
PID is a black art, I have been tuning for over 10 years (automation) I am still trying different tuning methods. A clean signal is one of the most important things (especially for derivative)
@@unchartedgroupielove funny you say automation..;) that’s exactly where I had my taste. Looking back, still amazes me how similar controlling an air handler is to controlling the engine ;))) inputs, outputs, logic in between
@@laser69beam that's exactly what I do, HVAC automation engineer. AHUs, chillers, pumps etc and a lot of energy SQL reporting stuff these days. It's an interesting industry. We use PIDs a lot, but plant reaction time is a magnitude or two slower than engine control. That in it's self presents different control issues.
I asked my ecu manufacturer to add the long term trim functionality but they didn't seem too excited about it. I think it's rad that you implemented it.
Awesome video Scott, amazing work mate, absolutely everything you need to know right here to tune the boost control using Haltech NSP. Helped me out so much mate
Just picked up a 2003 airtrek thinking of front mount and turbo elite and injectors, thanks the way you explain things is great thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Amazing video, started off understanding it then it switched to going straight over my head. Hard to find tuners who fully know how to set up all Haltech features. Need to get my VW polo boosting 😆😆 Definitely need boost by gear for fwd
Are you guys able to make a video about i-Vtec on something like a k24 engine, and how you can adjust different intake cam angles throughout the curve?
We do have more VTEC content coming up but meanwhile check out these two vids that have a fair bit of VTEC tech in them: ua-cam.com/video/nJ3tlKsPfLg/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/RLwBISXlJ1Q/v-deo.html
You mentioned this car has an Elite 2500 and i see you're using the NSP software. Does this mean future versions of NSP will support the Elite series ECU's? I just downloaded it and tried with my 1500 and it didn't work...
Super super cool video! (Thanks for posting such great quality content!) If this doesn't make up your mind about buying a Haltech ECU then nothing will. I've learned about PID tuning flying FPV quads (drones.) In the flight controller program called Betaflight, you learn to tune these parameters by flying the thing. It's strangely similar tho. Once you 1st tune the P, then you tune the I and finalize it with D tuning. PID tuning feels like very basic AI if you ask me. Again, SUPER cool! On a side note, if one were to wire a switch to a Haltech ECU, are we simply providing the Elite ECU a ground or power signal? I am assuming ground.
I think your formula for duty cycle is to divide your desired target by minimum psi you can make by wategate spring, for example : 24/18 is equal 1.33 so 33 is your duty cycle.
Can you please do a video on closed loop boost control, but more of a "worked" example - starting from the situation where most users would, rather than an already well tuned one? Great video as always.
It's pretty much self explanatory - You tune and start with a base boost pressure and then you guestimate the amount of duty required to hit a desired boost pressure and the PID values you put in, will give you an idea if your base duty cycle is accurate or not, based on the amount of changes to the base duty in the logs. You fiddle with the duty in the closed loop base output table for each boost pressure that you work out for your tuning setup and then check the logging for efficacy. The settings you choose for your own setup will be unique to your specific turbo and engine setup.
Hi, Shouldn't a good boost control keep the solenoid stayed closed until just before the boost target for earlier spoolup? Keeping the solenoid at 33% when boost is building doesn't make sense, and keeping it closed at boost onset would probably get 24psi at 4000rpm instead of 4500 ... ?
Since I have no wheel speed sensors, I purchased the Haltech GPS CAN sensor. Is this even useful in boost by gear or do I need to come up with a driveshaft speed sensor? Thanks guys!
is the pid control setup going to be different for the e2500 for cam control in v3 / nsp compared to 2.45.x / esp ? or will the numbers transfer across? :) and are you going to have v3 out in days, weeks or months? (im not giving you guys a years option :P)
I honestly thought you may have canned the NSP interphase upgrade to the Elite in favour of developing an Elite replacement. You will earn insane brownie points if you manage to NSP the elite while developing future ecus. Forced obsolescence is a modern day evil IMO but understand the capitalist motivation.
Welcome back!
With the restrictions on outdoor activities lifting Scotty finally gets a chance to take Dave's EVO for a spin and explain all the different boost control options available to you on an aftermarket ECU. With the car on a dyno we then get to see how to correctly set up the "Boost by Gear" function and how it works in real life.
NOTE: This is a long, technical video, if you want to jump into a particular section, use the shortcuts below:
00:00 - intro
00:00 - why you need boost control
03:10 - different types of boost control
04:40 - setting up boost by gear
11:30 - setting up target boost levels
18:00 - setting up long term trim tables
22:50 - data logging setup for the dyno runs
24:00 - dyno runs
32:00 - wrap-up
Here are the videos Scott references:
How to Control Your Horsepower: ua-cam.com/video/9cU6jXUROT4/v-deo.html
How Transient Fuel Enrichment Works: ua-cam.com/video/DMT9kVO7fUU/v-deo.html
How Dyno Tuning Works: ua-cam.com/video/rkcYDrwaJBg/v-deo.html
I had a dream I owned an evo JUST like that one…
Why’d you sell it?
As someone who's flown freestyle Drones, the PID controller totally makes sense applied to automotive tuning.
Only watching this now as I binge a bunch of the haltech videos while setting up my Elite 2500, but I think Scott explained the PID very well. I also feel like Haltech do a great job of providing good information, never be afraid of getting 'too technical' because it helps massively with understanding and I think most people using Haltech products are into it.
I’ve had run ins with PID control before but never understood it as much as I do after this video. Thank you, can’t wait for the dedicated vid on that topic.
PID is a black art, I have been tuning for over 10 years (automation) I am still trying different tuning methods. A clean signal is one of the most important things (especially for derivative)
@@unchartedgroupielove funny you say automation..;) that’s exactly where I had my taste. Looking back, still amazes me how similar controlling an air handler is to controlling the engine ;))) inputs, outputs, logic in between
@@laser69beam that's exactly what I do, HVAC automation engineer. AHUs, chillers, pumps etc and a lot of energy SQL reporting stuff these days. It's an interesting industry. We use PIDs a lot, but plant reaction time is a magnitude or two slower than engine control. That in it's self presents different control issues.
I asked my ecu manufacturer to add the long term trim functionality but they didn't seem too excited about it. I think it's rad that you implemented it.
Very good instruction and explanation.
Awesome video Scott, amazing work mate, absolutely everything you need to know right here to tune the boost control using Haltech NSP. Helped me out so much mate
Loving the evo tuning videos !!
Just picked up a 2003 airtrek thinking of front mount and turbo elite and injectors, thanks the way you explain things is great thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Amazing video, started off understanding it then it switched to going straight over my head. Hard to find tuners who fully know how to set up all Haltech features. Need to get my VW polo boosting 😆😆 Definitely need boost by gear for fwd
4:45 "...that's as much boost as the engine will take... or maybe even a little bit more." *let's party smirk*
Tickled me that comment 😁
Really liked the PID explanation, would love to see a more in-depth video about it
I see Evo IX, I press like :)
great stuff!!!
Are you guys able to make a video about i-Vtec on something like a k24 engine, and how you can adjust different intake cam angles throughout the curve?
We do have more VTEC content coming up but meanwhile check out these two vids that have a fair bit of VTEC tech in them:
ua-cam.com/video/nJ3tlKsPfLg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/RLwBISXlJ1Q/v-deo.html
You mentioned this car has an Elite 2500 and i see you're using the NSP software. Does this mean future versions of NSP will support the Elite series ECU's? I just downloaded it and tried with my 1500 and it didn't work...
I'm curious about that too! Looks like there's some awesome stuff coming for us in the future
stay tuned...
Was thinking the same thing! Looks to be a pretty intuitive program
Super super cool video! (Thanks for posting such great quality content!) If this doesn't make up your mind about buying a Haltech ECU then nothing will. I've learned about PID tuning flying FPV quads (drones.) In the flight controller program called Betaflight, you learn to tune these parameters by flying the thing. It's strangely similar tho. Once you 1st tune the P, then you tune the I and finalize it with D tuning. PID tuning feels like very basic AI if you ask me. Again, SUPER cool!
On a side note, if one were to wire a switch to a Haltech ECU, are we simply providing the Elite ECU a ground or power signal? I am assuming ground.
I think your formula for duty cycle is to divide your desired target by minimum psi you can make by wategate spring, for example : 24/18 is equal 1.33 so 33 is your duty cycle.
FYI, Classical example for PID controller ir ship`s steering.
In fact that's where PID controller theory comes from :)
Can you please do a video on closed loop boost control, but more of a "worked" example - starting from the situation where most users would, rather than an already well tuned one?
Great video as always.
It's pretty much self explanatory - You tune and start with a base boost pressure and then you guestimate the amount of duty required to hit a desired boost pressure and the PID values you put in, will give you an idea if your base duty cycle is accurate or not, based on the amount of changes to the base duty in the logs. You fiddle with the duty in the closed loop base output table for each boost pressure that you work out for your tuning setup and then check the logging for efficacy.
The settings you choose for your own setup will be unique to your specific turbo and engine setup.
When you set up gear ratios what is the cruising speed? Just any or idling speed in each gear?
Can you do a video on gear by speed, like if you want the dash to display gear but don’t have a fancy sequential with gear outout
PID, think of it like fuel trim, short and long term.
Can I use the GPS module as the speed indicator for the boost by gear ?
Hi, Shouldn't a good boost control keep the solenoid stayed closed until just before the boost target for earlier spoolup? Keeping the solenoid at 33% when boost is building doesn't make sense, and keeping it closed at boost onset would probably get 24psi at 4000rpm instead of 4500 ... ?
I didn't realise you could tune an Elite ECU in the NSP software
YOU can't.... not yet ;)
Since I have no wheel speed sensors, I purchased the Haltech GPS CAN sensor. Is this even useful in boost by gear or do I need to come up with a driveshaft speed sensor? Thanks guys!
Is this a hint the new software is coming for elites? ;) looks like a v3 firmware
nice spotting there, eagle eye:)
@@haltech every day when I go back to an elite over the nexus I cry so this makes me very happy
is the pid control setup going to be different for the e2500 for cam control in v3 / nsp compared to 2.45.x / esp ? or will the numbers transfer across? :) and are you going to have v3 out in days, weeks or months? (im not giving you guys a years option :P)
@ a video on Toyota vvti or dual vvti would be nice as well...😊
Apart from managing boost on turbo setups, can the gear sencing be used for otherwise NA setup, to manage VTEC/VVL/VVT?
It sure can. You can have it mapped against a range of things.
I honestly thought you may have canned the NSP interphase upgrade to the Elite in favour of developing an Elite replacement. You will earn insane brownie points if you manage to NSP the elite while developing future ecus.
Forced obsolescence is a modern day evil IMO but understand the capitalist motivation.
Great video. I really like these technical videos. Keep them coming. P.s. Time for Scott to embrace bald life and shave that dome.
Is that martys old evo??
@9:00 Scotty says yes, then they sold it to Dave at Haltech.
@@phuzz00 thank you, clearly I was listening 😅😅
I think Scotty is asking for 4-hub dyno.
anyone else see it leaning out up top?
This screams old school gran turismo gear ratio tuning 😅😅
Moist
barron
Ok never mind….i will run boost without gear…🥴
Let's cut the crap... When can I pretend I can afford a nexus and use NSP on my Elite 2500
Soon ;-)