Hey everyone! I can’t believe I didn’t even mention this in the video, but the flywheel, clutch, and the pressure plate were bought on eBay! I will put a link in the description for you to buy one! If the off chance that link someday disappears. The set up is for a 3.8 V6 (4th gen) Camaro stage three. I went with a stage three because I am not pushing stock Camaro power. So you want a heavier duty clutch!
Yes, it definitely needs to be balance matched. Years ago, a friend of mine bought a 77 Firebird at a car lot. They said it had a 350 Chevy in it. The day he bought it, he and his girl came by to show me. He took me for a ride. I thought it had a strange vibration. You could feel it through the floor, in your feet. The used car salesman told him it was just because of the headers. Months later, the low oil pressure light kept illuminating. Long story short. The engine was a Chevy 400, and someone installed a 350 flex plate on it. That vibration damaged the main bearings. I ended up helping him take the engine apart, install a rebuilt crankshaft, new main & rod bearings, timing chain, and a smaller Isky fireball cam. Idk what Cam It had in it,but it was a dog. It was too big. We also installed an MSD box and a B&M 2500 stall converter. It went pretty good after that. I re jetted the Edelbrock carb.
Great project man! I had to do something similar when I put 4 spped behind pontiac 301. I found a guy who did the same thing to 400 flywheels so they would work on the externally balanced 301. Can't wait to hear the 3800 run!
I took a 6cylinder engine out of a 70's Ford pickup w a manual trans (neutral balanced flywheel) to install a 302 (externally balanced flywheel). Because of some situation (this was 40 years ago, I don't remember the details), I had to use the 6cyl flywheel on the 302 (the crank bolt patterns are the same). I took the neutral balanced flywheel to an engine balancing shop and they added the proper weight (actually, they drilled it 180degrees away) and it became balanced for the 302.
I had a Chevy small block 400 that came with a flexplate. I took the weight off it and welded it to a 350 flywheel in the same orientation and distance from center and it worked just fine.
First time seeing your channel. Pretty cool build you got going on. Hope that clutch disk with no dampening springs works out for you. I used one on the street years ago and I really had to slip the clutch a lot to get underway. Had a lot of people thinking I was just learning how to drive a manual transmission.
@@1996slamster thanks for the comment! I’ve driven the car once so far and in and out of my garage a few times and I don’t mind the clutch. If I didn’t know it was a 6 puck, I probably wouldn’t even have noticed!
Years ago in a shop I did a junkyard engine swap in old 2.8 v6 Blazer. I think I used non rusty flywheel instead of what was on engine. On test drive I noticed massive vibration in engine. I put back on lift and removed flywheel cover and air chiseled the welded weight off of flex plate. Problem solved, boy did I get lucky.
This may sound different and cool in the US, but it was factory option in a Holden commodore in Australia. VR/VS commodore. 3800, supercharged, manual, rear wheel drive.They made about 4psi which was about 15hp more than the N/A variant. Fairly lame really.
@@nathanhansford76 oh I’m well aware of what the Aussies got. Here in the states though I’m not sure what psi they were pushing but if I’m not mistaken it was around 50 more horsepower
@@pissedoffpistongarage I feel there is no need to search and ‘make’ parts fit when you could just purchase the GM made commodore parts from Aus. Freight isn’t that bad.
@@nathanhansford76 except it is. And every part I could possibly need I can already get here really cheap. I understand what you are saying. But trust me, it doesn’t make sense financially.
The Camaro flywheel was just bolt on for the 3800 swap in a Fiero. Had to cut the flywheel down a bit to fit between the engine and transmission, but didn't alter the balance at all and it ran fine.
@@pissedoffpistongarage I've got a 3.8 sc in my 97 GTP with a 3.4 pulley that I'm planning on using... Just got to get all this stuff together and get it done one of these days!
Hey Pissed Off Piston Garage, 23:44 did you put a new bearing race the shiny “something there” in the new input shaft bearing retainer. I didn’t see one installed
@@connortyler4149 man you had me stressing! I watched the footage and sure enough. I did not see the bearing race on the new piece. And I started freaking out thinking I didn’t install it. Keep in mind the car is now running and driving so doing all that Work just have to take it apart would drive me crazy. But then I remembered a little bit later in the video when I show the old piece the bearing race is no longer there. I remembered I got the bearing race out and put it on the bearing of the input shaft off camera to keep the bearings from falling out. So we are good to go! Good catch!
25:00 , use a hose clamp around that part as a straight edge guide, get one that you have to clamp to get on, not the screw on type...The end has made me subscribe...I wanna see it go.
Hey dude when your unsure of bolt torque use a torque chart. Different bolt diameters and course/ fine thread pitch are listed. Just use that. Unless your using torque to yield. Throw them away and buy real bolts then torque to the chart values.
I think that bolt hole with flat sides on the hub of the flywheel is used for alignment like the bolts on a converter/flexplate. Are you 100% sure that it can only go on one way? just wondering. Awesome project
Supercharged 3.8l in a RWD car is a common swap. Oddly I have a friend that has 3 mid- 60s Novas that have this engine. 2 are mated to a GM 5sp and the other a tremec 6 sp. He did get a balance matched flywheel as he is running a mildly built motor in each car.
I am curious about what flywheel & clutch you are using, are they 2000 era Camaro or Firebird? I really enjoy your videos and find them very helpful for a SC 3800 RWD motor swap project I am working on. I have watched a lot of these FWD to RWD swap videos, and you are the first one to mention the need for balancing. I am thinking you might have just saved me a very large headache!
I can’t believe I didn’t even mention what clutch set up I am using😂 how can I forget that. 4th gen Camaro or firebird. The flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch were purchased as a kit from eBay. I think right around $250? However, I would only buy the pressure plate and clutch and then buy the flywheel balanced from Fiero Roger. Yes. You have to balance match your flywheel! Or else that is how you will quite literally destroy your engine. Let me know if you have any other questions!
trackmaster balance out of evansville indiana i used to take 95 to 2004 v6 mustang 5 speeds bolt it straight up to 5.0 after he put a 50oz balance on the factory flywheel
@@IowaBudgetRCBashers exactly. Plus I’m pushing stock horsepower. The day comes that I decide to go “balls to the wall“ all of that will have to get changed anyway.
The fact that your weight is still on the flex plate my guess is he removes weight from the opposite side of the flywheel. At least that's how its done on externally balanced big block mopars and small block 360s
Ive seen it done different ways but the most rudimentary way that seemed to work was stacking the flexplate and flywheel and aligning 180° oppisite each other on a bubble balancer and removing metal till it balanced.
What if you put the Supercharged top end and blower on an F-body RWD 3800 SII bottom end with a flywheel? I know the pistons will be flat top and not dished and compression ratio will be higher, however one could lower the boost or use E85...
Holden Commodore (VT to VY) 3.8 L67* engine clutch pressure plate torque = 20 to 30 Nm - from manual. These were V6 rear wheel drive - with supercharged option. Manual Getrag 5 speed or (more commonly) 4L60-E 4-speed Automatic Transmission. Is the L76 the same as the engine you are using? If so rear wheel drive parts were standard. *supercharged , L36 for NA.
@@marknilsson5782 you totally could do that but where are you going to get a quarter inch spacer? And if there is one available is it cheaper than cutting the existing part? Or, if you make one, I ask again, is it easier than just cutting the existing part?
@@kooldoozer funny enough I have and old school wheel balancer and I filmed putting the fly wheel and the flex plate on to show the difference of the too. I’m sure you could use that in a pinch.
Your, Thinking Too Much, Just Bolt your Manual flywheel on you will be fine, Did the flywheel come off a internally balanced engine or externally balanced engine
@@brianbloom1799 no you’re not thinking enough. Do not do that you will destroy your engine. The neutrally balanced flywheel I bought brand new from eBay. Like I said if you want to just bolt and flywheel up to your engine go ahead no one stopping you. But you will destroy your engine.
@@pissedoffpistongarage Young Man I have been Building Motors 50 Years, Please Don't act like you Know what you're talking about, I have forgotten More than you will learn by your Death bed
Is that the stock 5 speed trans for the S10? If so then that engine is too much power for it. It will not last long and neither will the driveshaft. The rearend should be enough to handle up to 325hp.
@@Friedbrain11 the transmission is from a 95 S-10. However yes it is stock. But the transmissions are rated up to 310 foot pounds of torque. The engine currently produces below that. So I will be good for the meantime. However the day comes I decide to put more power down, the transmission will have to be upgraded.
@pissedoffpistongarage The trans will be ok if you dont shock it with clutch dumps or hard launches. The s10 t5 is rated at around 300lbs but I wouldnt tax it too much. Too much curb weight wont help either. Nice job with the fab work. Cheers
So I blew my 2.2 up finally wasn’t really wanting it to go just necessarily yet the big thing I’m wondering does the naturally aspirated have this problem of needing that flywheel balance matched to it?
@@pissedoffpistongarage OK thank you now I look forward to seeing the engine mount video and then the wiring cause I know for sure I’m going to suffer on wiring that is not my biggest strength when it comes to automotive repair and modification for sure but luckily a couple guys from my shop that I work at or also throw in and help me on this project
I have actually done a 2.5 to 3.8 super charged s 10 swap your impatient attitude is going to cost a lot of extra time and possibly some extra money slow down take your time and you will achieve perfection. Personally I wouldn't trust you to do an oil change on my lawnmower by what I have seen. F.Y.I. I started my career in a transmission shop in 1986.
@@mick00000000002 Australia didn’t get these engines till the 90s. American has had them since a lot longer than that. The 3800 is a GM American engine.
@@pissedoffpistongarage correct! The 3800 was the Buick 231 that went back in form or another to the late 60's - all traced back to the original 1962 215 Buick aluminum V8 that was sold to Rover Group in UK (using it as the 3.5liter for decades) which was the basis of the 'odd-fire' V6 (sold to JEEP in late 60's). They figured out the 'even fire' architecture and developed that family. The 231 was rebranded mid 1980's to 3.8 litre and then eventually the 3800. This V6 along with the Chrysler Slant 6 are two of the most durable engines built.
Hey everyone! I can’t believe I didn’t even mention this in the video, but the flywheel, clutch, and the pressure plate were bought on eBay! I will put a link in the description for you to buy one! If the off chance that link someday disappears. The set up is for a 3.8 V6 (4th gen) Camaro stage three. I went with a stage three because I am not pushing stock Camaro power. So you want a heavier duty clutch!
Yes, it definitely needs to be balance matched. Years ago, a friend of mine bought a 77 Firebird at a car lot. They said it had a 350 Chevy in it. The day he bought it, he and his girl came by to show me. He took me for a ride. I thought it had a strange vibration. You could feel it through the floor, in your feet. The used car salesman told him it was just because of the headers. Months later, the low oil pressure light kept illuminating. Long story short. The engine was a Chevy 400, and someone installed a 350 flex plate on it. That vibration damaged the main bearings. I ended up helping him take the engine apart, install a rebuilt crankshaft, new main & rod bearings, timing chain, and a smaller Isky fireball cam. Idk what Cam It had in it,but it was a dog. It was too big. We also installed an MSD box and a B&M 2500 stall converter. It went pretty good after that. I re jetted the Edelbrock carb.
Great project man! I had to do something similar when I put 4 spped behind pontiac 301. I found a guy who did the same thing to 400 flywheels so they would work on the externally balanced 301. Can't wait to hear the 3800 run!
Roger balanced it the same way my pawpaw balances lawnmower blades..... a nail in a tree 😂
Doing a great job, I’ve been there with oddball builds and you really got to slow down a triple check your work
I took a 6cylinder engine out of a 70's Ford pickup w a manual trans (neutral balanced flywheel) to install a 302 (externally balanced flywheel). Because of some situation (this was 40 years ago, I don't remember the details), I had to use the 6cyl flywheel on the 302 (the crank bolt patterns are the same). I took the neutral balanced flywheel to an engine balancing shop and they added the proper weight (actually, they drilled it 180degrees away) and it became balanced for the 302.
The correct torque for all fasteners is, pull on them it till it brecks and then back them off 1/8 of a turn.
Ha ha ha ha. Then find a machine shop with an EDM machine to get out the easy out you broke off trying to get out the bolt you broke off! Ha ha ha ha
That transmission is definitely ford/studebaker bolt pattern. Might have to find one of these for my studebaker.
I still daily drive my 95 Bonneville SSEI be so much better with rear wheel and 5 speed.. Great Channel !
Interesting swap considering that this engine was available RWD in Australia in Holden cars.
I had a Chevy small block 400 that came with a flexplate. I took the weight off it and welded it to a 350 flywheel in the same orientation and distance from center and it worked just fine.
I know this guys thinking about it too hard, 60% balance is close enough for most engines and you wont even feel the vibration at 60% balance
@@kaleb8518 I’d rather think about it too hard than not enough!
6:42 “Don’t ask me how I did I just did it it was hard”😂🔥
First time seeing your channel. Pretty cool build you got going on. Hope that clutch disk with no dampening springs works out for you. I used one on the street years ago and I really had to slip the clutch a lot to get underway. Had a lot of people thinking I was just learning how to drive a manual transmission.
@@1996slamster thanks for the comment! I’ve driven the car once so far and in and out of my garage a few times and I don’t mind the clutch. If I didn’t know it was a 6 puck, I probably wouldn’t even have noticed!
I love this project
This was a great notification to wake up to 😀
Years ago in a shop I did a junkyard engine swap in old 2.8 v6 Blazer. I think I used non rusty flywheel instead of what was on engine. On test drive I noticed massive vibration in engine. I put back on lift and removed flywheel cover and air chiseled the welded weight off of flex plate. Problem solved, boy did I get lucky.
@@old_school_guy good thing you stopped driving when you did! That could have ended badly!
Just torque the clutch hat bolts to 45 pounds. I used to do that on my 504hp 396 in my Chevelle. Never had a bolt failure.
sweet work
This may sound different and cool in the US, but it was factory option in a Holden commodore in Australia. VR/VS commodore. 3800, supercharged, manual, rear wheel drive.They made about 4psi which was about 15hp more than the N/A variant. Fairly lame really.
@@nathanhansford76 if i remember correctly the last iteration with the 5th gen SC made around 260hp here in the states in the fwd cars.
Kiwi here, came to say the same thing
@@nathanhansford76 oh I’m well aware of what the Aussies got. Here in the states though I’m not sure what psi they were pushing but if I’m not mistaken it was around 50 more horsepower
@@pissedoffpistongarage I feel there is no need to search and ‘make’ parts fit when you could just purchase the GM made commodore parts from Aus. Freight isn’t that bad.
@@nathanhansford76 except it is. And every part I could possibly need I can already get here really cheap. I understand what you are saying. But trust me, it doesn’t make sense financially.
I'm here to say thank you for FH5 wideo ❤🎉
The Camaro flywheel was just bolt on for the 3800 swap in a Fiero. Had to cut the flywheel down a bit to fit between the engine and transmission, but didn't alter the balance at all and it ran fine.
I've got an 84 vette that I've been wanting to do this to! Gain power over the factory 350 and drop a couple hundred pounds from the front end!
@@DavidDarnell-ep4be do it!
@@pissedoffpistongarage I've got a 3.8 sc in my 97 GTP with a 3.4 pulley that I'm planning on using... Just got to get all this stuff together and get it done one of these days!
The project I never got to finish. Sold that rusty turd
@@JBM802 dang, that is unfortunate. Maybe I can motivate you to start a new one!
I did this on a rock crawler worked great
@@boonejames balance the fly wheel or installed a 3800 lol
Clutch bolts torque specs 1st pass 20ft/ pound -- 2nd pass 45 ft/ pound . -- 3rd pass 70 ft/pound..👍.
@@trevor02150 I feel like that might be way overkill? But I could be mistaken
It’s really hard on the crank if you use an internal balanced flywheel on an external balanced motor
yup been there done that about 20 years ago
Hey Pissed Off Piston Garage, 23:44 did you put a new bearing race the shiny “something there” in the new input shaft bearing retainer. I didn’t see one installed
@@connortyler4149 man you had me stressing! I watched the footage and sure enough. I did not see the bearing race on the new piece. And I started freaking out thinking I didn’t install it. Keep in mind the car is now running and driving so doing all that Work just have to take it apart would drive me crazy. But then I remembered a little bit later in the video when I show the old piece the bearing race is no longer there. I remembered I got the bearing race out and put it on the bearing of the input shaft off camera to keep the bearings from falling out. So we are good to go! Good catch!
not a gm guy but, i do like the 3800 dut to the grand nationals kiking a$$ on the strip.
Thats cool man
25:00 , use a hose clamp around that part as a straight edge guide, get one that you have to clamp to get on, not the screw on type...The end has made me subscribe...I wanna see it go.
Someone finally did it. I can rest in peace ✌️🕊️😌🙂↕️
Hey dude when your unsure of bolt torque use a torque chart. Different bolt diameters and course/ fine thread pitch are listed. Just use that. Unless your using torque to yield. Throw them away and buy real bolts then torque to the chart values.
We have thousands of factory rwd 3800s in Australia. Most are however automatic.
I think that bolt hole with flat sides on the hub of the flywheel is used for alignment like the bolts on a converter/flexplate. Are you 100% sure that it can only go on one way? just wondering. Awesome project
Supercharged 3.8l in a RWD car is a common swap. Oddly I have a friend that has 3 mid- 60s Novas that have this engine. 2 are mated to a GM 5sp and the other a tremec 6 sp. He did get a balance matched flywheel as he is running a mildly built motor in each car.
I am curious about what flywheel & clutch you are using, are they 2000 era Camaro or Firebird? I really enjoy your videos and find them very helpful for a SC 3800 RWD motor swap project I am working on. I have watched a lot of these FWD to RWD swap videos, and you are the first one to mention the need for balancing. I am thinking you might have just saved me a very large headache!
I can’t believe I didn’t even mention what clutch set up I am using😂 how can I forget that. 4th gen Camaro or firebird. The flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch were purchased as a kit from eBay. I think right around $250? However, I would only buy the pressure plate and clutch and then buy the flywheel balanced from Fiero Roger. Yes. You have to balance match your flywheel! Or else that is how you will quite literally destroy your engine. Let me know if you have any other questions!
@@pissedoffpistongarage Thanks for the quick reply and yes, I will be reaching to Fiero Roger!
@@mlpnya1 awesome!
trackmaster balance out of evansville indiana i used to take 95 to 2004 v6 mustang 5 speeds bolt it straight up to 5.0 after he put a 50oz balance on the factory flywheel
65 inch pounds on the clutch bolts, but impact will be ok
@@IowaBudgetRCBashers I think I ended up just going really snug on those. I can’t remember.
@@pissedoffpistongarage tight with loctite is all it really needs.
@@IowaBudgetRCBashers exactly. Plus I’m pushing stock horsepower. The day comes that I decide to go “balls to the wall“ all of that will have to get changed anyway.
ARP studs I was talking about, sorry I didn't mention it 😁👍.... standard bolts 45. - 50ft/lbs...
use bolt chart to give you idea of the torque
The fact that your weight is still on the flex plate my guess is he removes weight from the opposite side of the flywheel. At least that's how its done on externally balanced big block mopars and small block 360s
Ive seen it done different ways but the most rudimentary way that seemed to work was stacking the flexplate and flywheel and aligning 180° oppisite each other on a bubble balancer and removing metal till it balanced.
Tbh i thing home boy would have been better off sticking the stock flywheel he had back on and sending it atleast the new stock flywheel rather
What if you put the Supercharged top end and blower on an F-body RWD 3800 SII bottom end with a flywheel? I know the pistons will be flat top and not dished and compression ratio will be higher, however one could lower the boost or use E85...
@@hendo337 i’ll keep it real with you. I have no idea what would happen. That’s a little bit out of my range of knowledge.
Holden Commodore (VT to VY) 3.8 L67* engine clutch pressure plate torque = 20 to 30 Nm - from manual. These were V6 rear wheel drive - with supercharged option. Manual Getrag 5 speed or (more commonly) 4L60-E 4-speed Automatic Transmission. Is the L76 the same as the engine you are using? If so rear wheel drive parts were standard. *supercharged , L36 for NA.
L67 never came with manual transmission. But you can put one off the ecotec/3800 on it.
I'm a little curious here the Buick Grand National had the 3.8 V6 wouldn't a flywheel work for this? I'm not up on the GM 3.8's
@@patrickradcliffe3837 those were only automatic so they never came with a flywheel.
@@pissedoffpistongarage I wasn't sure whether they offered manual for the GN either.
woo! :o
@@gabbyherbold damn cutie what you doing in my UA-cam comments
Hey. At 25 minutes, instead of cutting that sleeve, why not just use a 1/4” spacer between bell housing and tail shave?
Throw out sleeve. The one you cut off. . Sorry spell check got me!
@@marknilsson5782 you totally could do that but where are you going to get a quarter inch spacer? And if there is one available is it cheaper than cutting the existing part? Or, if you make one, I ask again, is it easier than just cutting the existing part?
Hunter Tire Balancer should work. Else stack the offset flexplate and neutral flywheel together. Take off one ring gear. ---Doozer
@@kooldoozer funny enough I have and old school wheel balancer and I filmed putting the fly wheel and the flex plate on to show the difference of the too. I’m sure you could use that in a pinch.
Can u do it?
Why?
Your, Thinking Too Much, Just Bolt your Manual flywheel on you will be fine, Did the flywheel come off a internally balanced engine or externally balanced engine
@@brianbloom1799 no you’re not thinking enough. Do not do that you will destroy your engine. The neutrally balanced flywheel I bought brand new from eBay. Like I said if you want to just bolt and flywheel up to your engine go ahead no one stopping you. But you will destroy your engine.
@@pissedoffpistongarage Young Man I have been Building Motors 50 Years, Please Don't act like you Know what you're talking about, I have forgotten More than you will learn by your Death bed
@@brianbloom1799 sure Brian
Is that the stock 5 speed trans for the S10? If so then that engine is too much power for it. It will not last long and neither will the driveshaft. The rearend should be enough to handle up to 325hp.
@@Friedbrain11 the transmission is from a 95 S-10. However yes it is stock. But the transmissions are rated up to 310 foot pounds of torque. The engine currently produces below that. So I will be good for the meantime. However the day comes I decide to put more power down, the transmission will have to be upgraded.
@pissedoffpistongarage The trans will be ok if you dont shock it with clutch dumps or hard launches. The s10 t5 is rated at around 300lbs but I wouldnt tax it too much. Too much curb weight wont help either. Nice job with the fab work. Cheers
@@MarcBchannel 95 would probably be the nv3500
@stevenbelue5496 It's a t5. The nv3500 case looks different and the bellhousing fits the GM 4.3 V6 or Chevy V8's
So I blew my 2.2 up finally wasn’t really wanting it to go just necessarily yet the big thing I’m wondering does the naturally aspirated have this problem of needing that flywheel balance matched to it?
@@trentmulford9832 nope. You can run a neutrally balanced flywheel
@@pissedoffpistongarage OK thank you now I look forward to seeing the engine mount video and then the wiring cause I know for sure I’m going to suffer on wiring that is not my biggest strength when it comes to automotive repair and modification for sure but luckily a couple guys from my shop that I work at or also throw in and help me on this project
22 ft. Pounds is gm o e spec.
Gonzalez Eric Perez Larry Lewis Barbara
I have actually done a 2.5 to 3.8 super charged s 10 swap your impatient attitude is going to cost a lot of extra time and possibly some extra money slow down take your time and you will achieve perfection. Personally I wouldn't trust you to do an oil change on my lawnmower by what I have seen. F.Y.I. I started my career in a transmission shop in 1986.
okay boomer
Statement. 3800. Is a v6 holden engine. Fail .
@@mick00000000002 Australia didn’t get these engines till the 90s. American has had them since a lot longer than that. The 3800 is a GM American engine.
@@pissedoffpistongarage correct! The 3800 was the Buick 231 that went back in form or another to the late 60's - all traced back to the original 1962 215 Buick aluminum V8 that was sold to Rover Group in UK (using it as the 3.5liter for decades) which was the basis of the 'odd-fire' V6 (sold to JEEP in late 60's). They figured out the 'even fire' architecture and developed that family. The 231 was rebranded mid 1980's to 3.8 litre and then eventually the 3800. This V6 along with the Chrysler Slant 6 are two of the most durable engines built.