I agree with all of them but the Shadow should have been on the list as well. It's a CR 1/2 and it can easily TPK a party of any level with its strength drain ability. It also makes another shadow if it kills the non-evil humanoid. It's very deadly.
Yeah I was reading through curse of straid and there's a early lvl dungeon like lvl 1 early. And if the party does something which there obviously going to do it spawns 3 shadows it's a guaranteed TPK in my opinion.
@@chunchunmaru123i began playing curse of strahd 4 months ago, in two seperate parties at the same time. With the first party, The party was made op of lvl 1s A sorcerer A monk A barbarian And two rogues. We had a very easy time dealing with the shadows. With the second party, I already knew what will happen in that one room, but that did not change anything. That party was made up of lvl 3s A sorcerer A ranger A paladin And a wizard. This time, because we began at a higher level, We had to fight five shadows. And in all honesty, it was easy this time as well.
Nah, only CR cheats are ability score drainers because that isnt a DPR/EHP question. If anything, all but the roper and bodak (or a EXTREMELY unlucky person facing a beholder) are the only cases where the CR rating is the cause of something being deadly instead of raw build probability. ID and mind flayers are dangerous because people often face them without prot scrolls and int save prof respectively. Night hags are more plot coupon monsters than threats and at best used as a level 4 villain turned level 5 fakeout boss to show off the power bump at 5. Ghost combines the two and is both a plot coupon for a quest AND a danger when faced by people without prot def (or a cleric). If anything the aging part is the danger here to kill a old character via old age instead of the possession. Hobgob is a wiff-whirlwind (like most sub +3 score and above 15 AC cr 1/2s) teaching positioning (they hit 40% of the time and 1/8th of it is a crit, so much like low level two weapon fighting enemies or multi-attackers, the real threat there is the same as with all low level enemies only more likely overall within session of a crit at levels 1-2), also shield can technically by raw be taken away by a party member to reduce the survival of these extra squishy 1/2s even further. FnW become a problem if given the 1CR GS mount without counting the mount as a creature for CR calc as some people do with mounts for some reason, otherwise extremely low end in CR bracket, average for when likely encountered (and depend on hot water to live through the day). And dragons are just dragons. They are what the cap of each CR bracket should be (and why you can give a dragon class levels appropriate to party/CR without it actually changing their CR).
@@ANDELE3025 meanest thing I ever did to a 20th level party was give an ancient blue dragon a level in tempest cleric, then 19 levels in fighter, I mean the dragon got two rounded, but man it had scary burst damage. 180 points of lightning damage and an action surge on the first turn
@@ADT1995 Im not sure if it can be meanest unless you went flyby-burrow runs with the blue as its technically still just a Hard fight of exactly the right CR (22-23s are expected to do 150-190 damage a round sustained or over 3 rounds a dpr of around 170ish). Still hope twas nice/fun for the table.
Yes, I never understood how they came up with such poor CR rules, and then WotC doesn't even follow its own rules. They should have learned from 3/3.5/4th edition when making 5e.
Gotta love that intellect devourer that killed me in the first chapter of waterdeep dragon heist. Thankfully, my DM was generous enough to homebrew a way to bring my brain back to normal, but my god were they nasty for an encounter designed for lvl 1 characters
Early-level D&D is super deadly no matter what edition you're playing. Commoners have 4hp and adventurers barely have more than that. If you can't kill the goblins in 1-4 rounds, better hope they miss a lot, because you're getting a potential 4d6+8 damage between four shortsword/shortbow attacks, possibly at advantage because they rolled high on Stealth every Bonus Action.
@@BeaglzRok1 you’re right. I learned that the hard way after that encounter. Personally, it’s not a design intent that I’m a fan of but I guess it helps to make the encounters more engaging when you’re starting off the campaign with little to no actions to make use of
@@ExciteFGC I don’t think it’s an intent to make the encounters more interesting rather than a philosophy that an adventurer at a lower level is literally inexperienced so things can be tough for them. This is why a lot of DMs start there players at level 3 than 1. 2 levels up from 1 and your character is just learning the basics and gotten some basics of their class. 2 up from three and they’ve become adept at their class and abilities and are more prepared to expect the unexpected.
Many encounters at level 1 can be deadly. Even simple goblins. I restarted a Mines of Phandelver module with some friends a few months ago. All of them have some, to a lot, of experience with DnD. First real combat encounter is an ambush by 4 goblins on the trail. Being good roleplayers, they played it so they fell for the ambush, even though their players all knew about it. But more than that, they were overconfident they would win, because it's 'just goblins' and the encounter is designed for level 1 players. One surprise round of arrows later, the wizard is unconscious and the rogue is looking rough. Then the goblins proceeded to harry them, taking potshots and running into the bushes to use their bonus action to hide, making counterattacks very difficult, forcing the party to choose between chasing them or tending to their fallen players first. They eventually won, but the wizard never got to participate in the fight, the cleric was one bad death roll away from permanent death and the rogue was dangling at 2 HP. Only the barbarian was in relatively good shape after that first encounter. And that was only because as the DM, I didn't wanna fuck them up too badly on a first fight, so I made the goblins run around in a frenzied state of panic after 2 of them died and one of the remaining 2 got heavily wounded. Point being, if you're cocky and underestimate an encounter, anything can be deadly, even a lowly group of goblins. I had to pull my punches a little bit, or it was very possible that they would have suffered 3 KO's and one potential perma death.
Kobolds are pretty bad at level 1. You're supposed to fight 8 of them, and they give each other Advantage on attacks. Yeah, they are squishy, but they can easily overwhelm a party of 4 1st level characters. The first encounter in Hoard of the Dragon Queen is 6 Kobolds. I have yet to run it without dropping a PC, unless I pull punches and have them run away. (I also didn't realize they get Pack Tactics back then.) Bugbears are another one. They deal 2d8+2 with a +4 to hit as a CR1 with an AC of 16 and 27hp. They can also "snipe" a wizard with a 2d6+2 javelin.
people really undervalue the action economy with these "weaklings". "oh they are weak, let's just use 2 or 3 of them for each pc. math works fine" and then people start dropping...
The 2d6+2 is only if the bugbear is using the javelin in melee, using it ranged they don't get the brute bonus, though if the bugbear surprises the party and yeets a javelin at the surprised wizard in the first round it would actually do 3d6+2
@@974cerebrate Joke is about cr 0 crabs beating a level 1 party, cause when one crits you you die even as a barbarian or something like that not sure anymore^^ more legend than facts, there is a channel who tells storys about bad dnd games who has the same name
yo i know u from ur WoW channel, i clicked on ur video and was like "ayo i know this voice". I started my first dnd campaign this year, lovely having you making dnd content man, cheers
10:46 my first ever DND character was unalived by an intellect devourer. The Devourer took over my character and made him run off to serve another purpose elsewhere. RIP Vondal, Morgrim avenged you.
A note for Beholders, they just straight up lose to the darkness spell. They need to see their target to hit it with it's rays and the only way they can get rid of it is with the anti-magic cone. Also the shadow is stupidly tacky for cr 1/2 16 hp and resistance to a ton of things. unless you can deal radiant damage, they essentially have 32 hp, deal an average of 9 damage per turn, and the tank classes that can survive that at level 1 still suffer badly because they get their strength reduced.
You stay bunched up when you fight a beholder. If he blocks the spellcasters with his main eye then he can't use his rays. If he drops his main ray, he gets hammered by the spellcasters as well.
@@gustaafargoan I don't see why a beholder wouldn't spin like a top and fire eye beams while the eye is turned away while rotating back when it's done.
@@vxicepickxv That's not how turns work in DnD. Sure he can spin, but turns are almost simultaneously, one gets the slightest drop on the other. All attacks take place within a 6 second period. Action, bonus action, reaction is one 6 second period. When a sorcerer finishes his spell, is the Beholder facing him or is his back turned? If he was spinning would he fire his eye rays at disadvantage or extreme disadvantage? I would allow him to spin giving spells cast against him a 15% chance of occurring (finiishing) within the eye beam. I would make the Beholder roll 6d20 and take the lowest roll for his attack.
Playing in a campaign where we had to storm a Mind Flayer stronghold. Thankfully, there were only ~12 Mind Flayers total, before you start counting the Orog guards, the multiple Scaladar, the Elder Brain, the Neolithid that they locked in front of their side entrance with a giant Wall of Force, or the Thoon Hulk that was homebrew converted. With a DM ruling that, because Mind Flayers can use Detect Thoughts/telepathy to sense that we were on the other side of an illusory door, they didn't need to make an Investigation check to discern that the Major Image was fake, we got hit with no fewer than four consecutive Mind Blasts in one round. Four INT saves. Which Stun for ten whole rounds of combat if you can't make a DC 15 INT save at the end of each of your turns. In a 60ft cone AoE. That recharges 33% of the time at the start of the Mind Flayer's Turn. And Stuns. The Stunned condition inflicts the Incapacitated condition, and makes you unable to move. The Incapacitated condition makes you unable to Concentrate on spells, such as Major Image, or take Actions or Reactions. Among several other things, but that's the one that sticks out a lot. We were a Level 13 party with an entire Young Red Dragon, Githyanki Gish, and several Githyanki Knights/Warriors, and we still nearly TPK'd at the gate. The only things that really saved us were that 1. the next five Mind Flayers trickled in one at a time (each with a fresh Mind Blast of course), 2. the remaining three stayed behind to guard the Elder Brain, 3. we had an entire Large Dragon between us and 4d12+8 damage Multiattack Thoon Hulk, and 4. a Wildfire Druid that could sink an entire Heal spell into the dragon so it wouldn't be at 0 for its brain to get eaten, and use her Wildfire Spirit to mass-half-Misty-Step stunned people out of the front line on a separate Initiative count. And now that we're Level 16, we STILL have to deal with at least one unaffiliated Mind Flayer and his at-least-trio of Grey Slaads, without ANY help!
The shadow is an incredibly deadly undead low CR monster. Between it's incorporeal form and the fact that it's a tax can permanently drop strength I find that they easily can kill parties and have had a couple situations where a couple shadows just thrown into a dungeon as filler monsters ended up taking a PC down or killing them.
It’s attacks don’t permanently drop strength, at least not in 5e unless your DM is evil lol. The reduction should only last until the next short or long rest.
thing to bear in mind with the hobgoblin is it can't use both hands on a longsword and it's shield, it also takes a full action to remove or put on a shield so you can either have the higher ac or the higher damage per attack but not both.
@@SirStanleytheStumbler They are proficient in Chain Mail, which is a Heavy armor, so it save to assume they would proficient in any heavy armor. Though their 13 Str would reduce their speed by 10 ft, the additional AC often worth the reduced speed
I like monsters like these as they remind me of a time when D&D had very little concern for the welfare of the player. I wouldn’t want all the hardcore difficulty back, but some legit mechanically scary monsters are refreshing.
Thanks much my friend. I for one, very much appreciate it when vid Hosts put focus on the lower level critters in the game, as it provides great fuel to us DMs when determining early level random challenges or even selecting appropriate supportive goons for BBEGs. Time now to view your others vids and determine if subscribing is worthwhile. I have a hunch... it will be! :)
I feel parts of this list are great but not the whole list I personally feel most Dragons are too weak in 5e for example. Beholders and Intellect devours deserve this list. Also I need to add shadows, Shadows are crazy deadly!
At high-level play, dragons are dominant right now through sheer tankiness. After zariel getting nerfed in monsters of the multiverse, Ancient red and golds have way more hit points then anything but a tarrasque, and Greatwyrms/Aspects with mythic traits can have upwards of 1k hit points to burn through. The argument of " I killed the dragon in 1-2 rounds" can be applied to other monsters in the game, much more easily.
@@davidstumpf7811 The strength isn't extra lethal for their CR. It makes them scary in numbers to higher level characters but if you get strength drained to 0 on a level 1 character then the shadow has to hit you at least 3 times. That's gonna kill you anyhow and any level 1 character dies in 3 hits.
@@TwoToneShoes Shadows can kill 20th level characters unlike other CR 1/2's! If they get to act first 20 Shadows could potentially kill at least 1 member of a party of 4 20th level characters! I defy any other CR 1/2 to do the same. What about even any CR5 or less!? ( maybe a few like intellect devourer...) If you have tactical players with decent magic items MOST official monsters in 5e are WAY too weak. I often power them up a lot. BUT it depends on the circumstance: size of Party, level, current resource's used, tactical level of the players, gear and terrain effects. As well as logical tactics of the enemies. Dragons DESERVE their CR they are not for me 'STRONG' for their CR in general. Unless you have foolish players with crappy gear and that for some unknown reason lack the basic tactics to ALWAYS have and use RANGED FIRST and switch to melee as a last resort/when tactics dictate. And take cover, use magic items, use tactical/control and defensive spells. People who understand their spells and abilities.... Then yes any flying enemy with ranged becomes "OP". For me they punch at not above the CR. Shadows are DEADLY at ALL levels. I can guarantee you 100 Shadows is MORE dangerous than 100 of anything else in the game of CR1 or below VS a Party of 4; 20th level characters! EVEN if that party has a Cleric! The Tarrasque is also pathetically weak and undeserving of CR30 its at best CR24 as is from the book. I use my upgraded version rather than the book one. Heck one Shapechange into a clay golem. Or any Flight + unlimited ammo+ magic ranged weapon = victory... Always power up MOST base monsters! Some key things to add Magic weapons (Tarrasque and dragons claws and bite aren't magical? You realize golems and lycantropes instantly beat them if they lack Breath weapon or the swallowing acid. (hence why clay golem beats the tarrasque) For me its crazy an ancient dragons/ or the Tarrasques claws are not magical in base 5e! Bonus actions (such as a special ranged ability), Reactions (such as a parry) Immutable form/ or can't be shapeshifted against their will. Magic resistance And more than Max HP (I call this Boss HP) Why doesn't the Tarrasque have at least 1000 HP? It's the Tarrasque?! A CR 30 'world destroyer' Well until a cities clay golem tarrasque defence squad shows up to defeat the 'obliterates everything in its path' ... Can't even hurt a Golem or Lycanthrope unless it Swallows them! Speed of 40 ft. War Horses speed60 ft. ... 1 mounted archer With a magic bow on a regular Warhorse can outrun it and kill it. Just stay a bit a head of it turn around and fire arrows. No ranged, no magic weapons, stupid (so bad tactics), etc. Also am making a 3rd party book myself right now AND I use other 3rd party and base game content. I mostly have to strengthen monsters. A lot. Not shadows, there already OP! As a member of a 17th level party of 5 players with at least 1 party member with a magical longbow (or other ranged weapon) I'd rather face 1 Tarrasque than 20 shadows on a dark night!
5e dragons are only weak if you both dont use dragon tactics AND dont use the full MM rules for them. Give them both the innate spellcasting and generic monster modified with class levels rules, optionally without the hit dice (that would both pointlessly drag up the defensive cr without much effect AND make the fight about as much time as just maxing out the hp except for 1-3 die rolls). And IDs only belong on lists if one assumes weaknesses placed on a statblock arent assumed to be options for the party (ID vs 0 cleric 0 scroll party, even one of higher level if used as mooks, than as a above daily budget "deadly" encounter on which the party spent 200g prior to steamroll through.
A few stories: Night Hag- As a DM, I have one of these as a recurring villain because she escaped the party. Their real danger is in lore, because they can accumulate other difficult monsters like banderhobbs and banshees, which wreaked having on the party. Hobgoblin- As a DM, had one as an NPC helping the party in a fight. Did not expect him to hit for so much. Also did not expect him to prove to be a glass cannon when he was taken out in a single hit by an enemy. The party healed him, and I've since given him the Hobgoblin Captain stat block instead. Fire newt- As a player in a level 3 party, we came upon a group of these and destroyed them. I think we had my monk, a scout rogue, a star druid, and another character I can't remember (it was a one-shot). Thematically it was a great time, especially when my lizard folk monk ran up and ripped the neck out of the fire newt's mount. Maybe because we were level three, but they did not pose much of a threat at all. Ghost- As a DM, I've run ghosts twice. The second time, it immediately possessed a paladin (level 4 party). However, the Wild Magic sorcerer went next, then hit the paladin with a chaos bolt followed by a Wild Magic Surge... which let her strike the paladin with lightning. That's how the possession and the paladin were ended in one turn. In the other game I ran, the half-elf sorcerer was aged up but wasn't too affected, but the human immediately turned 60. They were later healed by NPC's though. Bodak- As a DM, ran this in a level 10 one-shot. The paladin took one step around a corner, failed his save against the bodak bad, and immediately crumbled. The following fight was cool, with a lot of hit and run tactics. I ran a bodak again against the same players but a different campaign, but the bodak there was chained up and used more as a security system/trap by the above Night Hag. They got by this second bodak a lot easier. Mind Flayer- As a DM, I reskinned the mind flayer as some unknown aberration conjured by a beholder's dream. But I didn't thoroughly read the stat block, so when it grappled and stunned the level 5 half-elf sorcerer and I realized I could basically one-shot him, I had to hold back because that would have been an unfair kill. The other players freed the sorcerer, who has since developed an intense hatred for calamari. Bonus round: banshees and catoblepas deserve a mention for similar reasons. Haven't run the catoblepas in game, but they can fully kill a player with their death glare. And banshees are a lot like bodaks: while they can only do their wail once per day, they have a fly speed, a fear effect, and can move through objects. Plus good resistances and immunities. The same player who fell to the bodak failed their save against a banshee and dropped to zero (and got gobbled by a banderhobb). Also, that was the same player who got aged by a ghost and grappled by the mind flayer (and he was nearly eaten by a mimic). He comes up a lot in my stories haha
This is exactly why I don’t trust challenge rating. If I’m going to preplan an encounter I will test it out myself keeping in mind how my party’s characters would act most likely and how the creature there fighting would most likely act.
Top 10 Polymorph Options based on CR. I keep hearing Polymorph as the "end all/be all" spell for Fourth Levels spells (and, sometimes, beyond) yet it seems to be rather limiting in its capabilities.
Really its just the fact you can take a 5 hp fighter back up to 130 hp (Often double their hp at that level.) instantly and keep their damage by making them a Giant Ape. Its a wizard and sorceror's best method of healing. Otherwise its used to turn an enemy into a snail or something at which point you can use any method of cheese to get rid of it. Drowning is often the best method as the creature will drown when it shifts back due to dropping to 0 hp from drowning. If the creature doesn't need to breath, you have Lava at 18d10/round or the bag of holding sending them to the astral plane. I've ended combats with BBEGs with polymorph and these tricks once the legendary resistances wore off.
@@archmagemc3561 But what's the advantage of turning a creature into one form or another? Why is Giant Ape, T-Rex, etc always the best choice? Why not something more creative? Or is it a stat thing where those just happen to have the best stats and they make the other 99% of options irrelevant?
In 3.5e, the Cockatrice was a frighteningly deadly monster at CR 3. It had a fly speed of 60 ft, had a huge attack bonus, and if it hit, the player had to make a DC 12 fortitude save or be petrified permanently.
I remember throwing a young white at a cocky mid level party, attacking them on a boat going between 2 iceberg. The only things that saved them was the totem barbarian and is rage, without that it was a tpk. They didn't even killed it, they just had the luck to move past is territory, entering where the elderbrain bbe was, forcing him to flee. Even, they where more humble after that lol
Grey Oozes are also very deadly to lv 1 characters. Sure, 8 AC is mostly trivial to hit, but 22 hp means they are tanking at least a couple of hits and when they do hit you they do 1d6 + 2d6 acid damage, which is a lot for first level. Oh, and they permanently damage metal weapons and armor, making it so they either need to be repaired or replaced very quickly. They have a CR of 1/2.
Of all the dragons, the white dragon is the one that can punch highest above its weight class, even though it has the lowest challenge rating. Being able to fly, swim, and burrow makes them exceptionally mobile and able to outmaneuver most parties. If the DM plays them properly instead of just as a ball of stats, there isn't a single enemy in the game more challenging for its power level.
Yeah, but speaking from experience, if you play a Dragon "properly", you look like and feel like a dick "yeah, she's just gunna fuck off 200 feet up until her breath comes back, good luck with that"
Worth noting that many (not all) of these creatures have terrible saving throws across the board, and many have negative scores on strength and charisma. A good wizard knows some spells that are the least common saving throws and can throw put at creatures that are clearly vulnerable.
One that I personally think is way above its CR are Bulletes. It's only CR5 but it's fairly chunky. It's a simple monster but it's surprising difficult to deal with because of the burrowing and a fight often starts on the backfoot as 90% of the time it's going to burst up from the ground and jump on your party when they're all clumped up in a travel group. If they jump around a lot, they can really shred up a party.
Good call Buddy. A DM that knows what this beastie is capable of and how to use it properly, can destroy a comparative Party really quick. Yeah, TPKs are not an "objective" but it can certainly humble a group of Murder Hobbos VERY quickly! :)
I currently have a level 12 party that is being terrorized by a Rakshasa. The Rakshasa has a succubus under him that stays in the ethereal plane to spy on the party, and the rakshasa shows up, usually disguised or invisible in a large group setting like a pub, manages to get suggestion on one of the players with low charisma to turn on the party and then tags a couple with his claw attack to curse them. As the only spellcaster is a warlock they don't have remove curse and he can only use 5th level spells the Rakshasa just plane shifts away after cursing a couple people
Anything with a "drop to zero" effect deserves a spot in the list of monsters that are way deadlier than their cr would tell, I think the Catoblepas has a death gaze too.
Eh...one party member dropping to zero is still a long way from a TPK. Unless the monster has high HP and AC, you're still going to kill it way before it can use that ability on all 4 of you. Plus, 50/50 chance after getting dropped to zero a character gets back up. If it was a true save or die effect that would be different
Banshee is also quite deadly, they can sense the party, como from across a wall and do a save or down aoe before the combat starts and goes back to the wall, its not supertank if your party has magical weapons, but otherwise its quite bulky for the CR 4
A worse thing about an intellect devourer is that; if the player that had its brain removed dies, even a raise dead spell wont bring them back. As Raise dead does not restore missing body parts. So a 7th level resurrection spell would to be used.
Hobgoblins are one of my favorite low-level monsters to pit against the group. Throw in a Homebrewed Hobbie mage and really watch them sweat as they can cast up to 2nd level spells (sleep, mirror image, shield, and chromatic orb).
Huh, no quickling here? CR1 creature that makes 3 attacks at +8 dealing 1d4+6 damage, leading to a potential damage of 3d4 + 18. Sure, it's a little weak defensively (10hp, 16 ac) but all attacks are made at disadvantage against it. Plus, if it goes first this creature could easily down two players. Also, it has a ranged attack of 20/60 to make sure it can reach the backline if it's 120ft walking speed doesn't for whatever reason.
Wow you put dragons high on your op list and the dungeon dudes put it on the under powered list it's funny to see how different experiences change your opinion. I've seen dragons get one rounded but I've also had the scariest fight of my life against them. A great example of how it can either be easy or awful is critical role season one the cromaconclave. Soon to be on their show
The thing with dungeon dudes videos, is they assume you're gonna use crowd control abilities like wall of force/forcecage/prismatic wall. And that's a very niche, min/max playstyle that very few players use. But sure, if you wanna spam those abilities and then add concentration AOE spells like sickening radiation, then really anything without teleportation can be killed low-difficulty. If you roll high on initiative the party won't even take damage, if you drop a forcecage on them first
Which is also why they went and made a bunch of videos talking mad shit about the vecna Stat block. Because yes while his Low AC and HP makes him really weak for his CR in general his ability to spam counterspell makes him one of the only monsters in the game that has a chance against their broken Crowd control hax playstyle
Two things, the sentinel feet counters better than spells and treantmonk did a video on how 2 level 20 fighters with no magical items can 1 round him with average damage so he's a little weak for general game design
@@jakewarman7277 i know that's the exact video I'm talking about lol. Which was intentionally made to DISTRACT from the fact that he's hell on wheels against a party of all casters. Go watch the video where they actually run the adventure, Vecna lasts 3 rounds and manages to kill a player, and without subtle spellcasting he would have killed 1/2 more
@@jakewarman7277 also having reaction attacks that can immobilize creatures, and extra conditions you can use a reaction attack on? Not even comparable to locking targets in an indestructible barrier that lasts ten minutes with no concentration. Sentinel requires you to hit your target, and the effects only last one round. Force wall lasts the whole encounter and then some, doesn't require an attack role, doesn't allow a saving throw, and is literally unbeatable without specific Magical abilities. Like..you could stick Demigorgon In a force cage and leave him there for ten minutes, there's nothing he can do about it. And you could keep hitting him with spells while he's in there. If you had 5 reactions you could take each round then it would maybe be close. But even then, they can keep hitting YOU with no disadvantage. Force wall/cage prevents a monster from hitting Anyone at all
Calcryx, the white dragon wyrmling in sunless citadel, just oneshotted almost the entire party, the only surviver of her breath weapon was able to negotiate a surrender sooo ... they got extremely lucky ...
The same happened to me. I was dming, they got into the combat, instant breath. The cleric and the silver dragonborn paladin drop instantly. It was fucking terrifying and had to pull its punches to avoid a tpk on the second session. After that, once they got the hang of it, dragons no longer pull their punches. Nightscale from the Forge of Fury killed the barbarian before dying herself. Dragons are the strongest of their own CR.
@@kayas7574 it is to be expected, it is a lot of damage and even the paladin with resistance to cold damage fainted because Calcryx got a good damage roll and the paladin failed the save. Fortunately, the others spread out in such a way that it couldn't target them all, but it was crazy scary for a second session of lvl 1 characters.
Singly, Kobolds aren't a threat. But played into their lore, where they'll make extensive use of ambushes, traps and their (in)famous Pack Tactics. Even the basic Kobold at 1/8 cr can be scary. The winged and inventer variants are way stronger than their 1/4 cr indicates, and the Sorcerer version is straight up dangerous.
One that got us was the Githzerai Zerth. It's a CR 6 creature with Multiattack, +7 to hit, 2d6+4 + 3d8 damage. On average, that's 24 damage per attack. Because +7 is a good attack bonus at level 6, this thing was near about wiping us out everytime one showed up. AC17, and with its Jump and Shield innate abilites, we couldn't get away from it, nor hit it. It was incredibly frustrating and near deadly every time.
>Challenge rating is a simple metric I'm gunna have to stop you right there. Edit: Just finished the video. I'd say Rot Grubs and Shadow deserve to be on this list. Anything that has an instant drop to zero or stat drain ability is incredibly dangerous almost agnostic of player level. It should also be mentioned that CR operates under the assumption that your players fight 5-6 fights of that CR per day. One CR 5 monster should not be a challenge to a level 5 party if it's the only thing they spend resources on that day.
to the best of my knowledge the beholders anti-magic field doesn't affect its own rays because the eye stalks are behind the main eye and not inside the cone "Which starts in front of the beholder not on top of its location" that may be up to each DM/GM to decide for themselves but i've never seen one affected by the cone.
Will-O-Wisps are also pretty tough if you have enough of them. Invisibility, fast (+9 to initiative), 50' flight, Damage Resistances, Condition Immunities and Damage Immunities, and 19 AC for a CR2 is pretty good. You can raise them to 36 HP if you're facing a stronger party and still be realistic. If a party member goes down, Consume Life.
The roper is formidable, but there is a funny way to effectively make yourself immune to it. If you cast armor of agathys at level 2 or higher, it can't grapple you. Any hit from a tendril triggers 10 frost damage which destroys the tendril. Since the tendrils don't do damage on a hit, you keep AoA and since it can't grapple you just stay more than 10 feet away from it as you attack.
A surprisingly difficult CR 1/4 monster is the animated broom. 17hp 15ac +5 to hit double attack that averages at 5 damage. I have scarred quite a few players with surprise broom ambushes in closets. Still annoying at higher levels with their 15ac. Three of them almost took out a lvl 8 hexadin in the Amber Temple. I have since incorporated homebrewed animated cleaning supplies in multiple one-shots. My personal favorites is the blinding animated bucket and the swarm of animated rags that is based on the rug of smothering.
Not necessarily deadly to a party, but unless you have a teleportation option or Freedom of Movement, Boneless are terrifying in a 1 on 1 context. Their Crushing Embrace action automatically succeeds if you are already grappled, and even if you throw them off of you using the Strength check, you're still grappled by them, and breaking the grapple would take an action, so you can't stop them from doing it again next turn. Thus, if you can't teleport or cast Freedom of Movement, or use Action Surge, your only option is to keep attacking them at disadvantage and hope you kill them before they crush or suffocate you.
Shadows without a doubt should get a mention, their strength drain ability is incrediy deadly because it puts a timer on your character's life other than your hit points while decreasing your overall effectiveness.
There is actually a way to "cheese" a Beholder fairly easily: Place a Darkness spell between it and the party, since it's eye-rays require line-of-sight to work and a Beholder can't see through magical darkness without canceling it out with it's central eye, meaning that the Beholder either has to temporarily cancel the Darkness spell with it's central eye (which also means that it still can't use it's eye-rays and has to resort to it's melee Bite attack), move through the Darkness spell and closer to the party, or just be stuck there unable to actually attack the party while the Darkness is in place. Meanwhile, the party can just stay put and have ranged weapons readied, so that if the Beholder cancels the Darkness spell with it's central eye, the entire party can just immediately shoot the hell out of the thing.
My beholder would just retreat into another tunnel and try to flank the party, using lair actions to weaken the party, as the stalks do not require line of sight, just distance.
Dear DLogs, where do you get the time to both run D&D Logs and Duel Logs and still do great and accurate research with non repeated facts that I never heard anywhere before?
So for the first game I ran for my level 1 party, I had them go up against a pair of Crag Cats. I thought it would be fine; there were 6 PCs and Crag Cats are CR 1 and if I needed to I could fudge some damage rolls. The Crag Cats would have won handily if the party hadn't been able to makes them scared enough to run away. For a CR 1 they have beefy hp at an average of 34 but it is balanced a bit with the 13 AC. They can choose to either Bite (1d10 +3) or Claw (1d8 + 3) which is damage that a level 1 party can manage so long as they are smart about it. But the Crag Cat's special abilities are what make it really nasty for a CR1; Pounce and Spell Turning. Pounce means that if they move at least 20 feet towards a creature and hit them with a claw attack, average 7 damage, the player has to make a DC 13 Strength save, which is doable but challenging for some classes, or get knocked prone; the nastiest part of a successful Pounce is that the Crag Cat then gets to make a Bite attack, at advantage, as a Bonus Action. Being able to an average of 15 damage in one round is fairly nasty for a CR 1 but that doesn't even count Spell Turning. Spell Turning gives the Crag Cat advantage on all saving throws on spells that target them and if the they succeed on the save then, so long as the spell is bellow 8th level, the spell hits the caster instead. Oh and a little extra bit of trickiness is that they cannot be targeted or detected by an divination magic or scrying sensors.
I don’t have an exact count, but it feels like a fair few low CR creatures have abilities with effects that can only be undone via greater restoration or better. Which, as noted in the video, the party is unlikely to have. And I gotta ask: Why? Why design low CR monsters with powers the party almost certainly cannot undo, especially in the case of monsters like ghosts where there’s a short time limit?
Legacy. 5E might be a forgiving game, but it is built an a saga of brutal deaths. There is also group CR adjustments for larger monster battles. Someone else mentioned that.
@@InquisitorThorn Some you can argue that for, like the Intellect Devourer (even if they removed the handy thing where they provided example of what creatures should show up in what group sizes), but what of the ghost? That doesn't strike me as something that should inherently be fought in multiples at higher levels, unless one is supposed to assume that anything that asks for greater restoration is meant to be that way.
My favorite for under CRed monsters comes from 3rd edition. The giant monstrous crab. (aka "that damn crab".) This thing was a large crab with 40ft movement, 19 AC, 91 HP, and two +19 grapple attacks. It does 1d8+9 points of damage on it's initial claw attack(s) (read grapple) then it gets to use it's constrict ability for free, dealing and extra 1d8+9 points of damage. it has two claws so it can grapple twice per round. a tough fighter or barbarian might survive a round being grappled but they're not beating that +19 grapple roll so they're going to die the next round; baring a nat 20 that is. So this thing can do 20-34 points of damage in one round to two characters. Then chase the rest down with its fast movement and kill the rest. This thing is a tough fight for a level 5 party, and a level appropriate fight for a seventh level party. plus it's Amphibious and is vermin so it is immune to mind affecting effects and has darkvision and can live underwater. so it can surprise the party while it's out at the beach, on a boat; in an undersea cave or in any dark, watery location; or hell just charge out of the water in the middle of broad daylight and wreck the party. plus it's got more than two legs and is large so it gets a huge bonus vs any trip attempts so you can't really flip it on it's shell. Oh yeah, it's CR 3. it was put out on the WOTC website wayyyy back in the day. might still be floating around the internet somewhere.
Sul Khatesh from eberon is my favorite example of a cr lie. She can conjure a massive area of anti magic, but she is immune to the effects of the anti magic. So she can use all of her spells and abilities normally, it’s just the party can’t. And she’s immune to nonmagical damage so as long as she stays in the zone the party can’t hurt her. This lasts for an entire hour so you can’t beat her with endurance either. Now they are cr 26, but considering the poster child for cr 30 is the tarrasque. Which literally loses to any mid level party or any party with magic and flight. Being essentially impossible to defeat without homebrew items or everyone being decked out in multiple artifacts is definitely higher than cr 26.
The problem with her? an optimized bugbear gloomstalker/echo knight can take her out in the first round due to her low hp. And that character will win initiive as their minimum initive they can roll is a 14 usually.
@@archmagemc3561 Few problems; AC 22 + shield gives an ac of 27. Meaning even if you had a +14 to hit (+5 ability score, +6 proficiency, +3 legendary magic item) means you’d have to put out over 1000 damage on the first round after factoring in accuracy. She also has foresight, so she can have advantage on initiative if the dm uses it. She can also use shapechange to boost initiative if the dm wishes. That being said, if you have a party specialized in ftks, you might be able to kill her. However, two abilities make her probably the strongest enemy in the game, her anti magic ability and her maddening secrets ability. Maddening secrets can stun any pure martial as it’s a dc 26 wisdom save and if you don’t have spell slots you get stunned. And, more importantly, if you don’t kill her first turn, her anti magic ability means she’s essentially impossible to defeat. The reason I think she should be on the list is no other enemy, no matter the cr, has an ability that requires you kill them in one turn. Also, post the dpr calculations for your character against an ac 22 creature. I will grant 22 ac since shield can be counterspelled as she doesn’t ignore components to my recollection.
Gas Spore: CR 1/2, AC 5, 1 hit point, but it has a death burst effect and it takes a DC 15 Nature check to notice it's not a beholder. Its attack is only +0, and only does 1 poison damage, but also forces a dc 10 con save vs its death burst effect. Its death burst has a radius of 20 feet and a con save DC of 15, so somewhat harder to make than average for this CR, and without a way to cure disease, ***WILL*** kill anyone who fails, in 1d12+con score hours, which is, at most, 32 hours, if they get lucky with their roll and have a con score of 20. That's right, without access to either a Paladin or 2nd level spells on a druid or a cleric (or a bard who chose Lesser Restoration), a single CR 1/2 creature can easily wipe an party, and even with access to such spells, without sufficient spell slots, and with unlucky rolls on the time, practically guarantees at least 1 kill.
I definitely held back on killing one of my players on session 3 because I wasn't aware of how deadly intellect devourers can be, especially in large numbers.
I've always felt that Ogres are extremely deadly for their CR. At CR 2 the Ogre does 2d8+4 with their melee attack and 2d6+4 with a ranged attack. Not only does it hit like a truck, it also has 59 hp.
No mention of banshee? One scream could potentially TPK an entire party if they're unlucky. Umber hulks are pretty bad too. High AC, high HP, constant confusion ability, and 3 attacks per round with an average damage output of 32 at CR 5.
Sadly Tarrasque is kinda poop. It is just an absolute brute that will eventually die to tactics like fly, range and other cheese. Considering players will be high level when they fight it they will have many options.
Lmao I remember how our party ran into a Bodak in a dungeon, so the cleric (me) used Fog Cloud and just got rid of the danger of her gaze, while the party beat her up from far away, as she was in a boat trying to row towards us, but I stopped her main ability.
You mentioned multiple creatures that target Intelligence as it's tied for the stat most likely to be a dump stat, and didn't even mention the Gelatinous Cube? It's tanky a f and can easily TPK a party that doesn't have the Strength to get out of it once engulfed. One CR2 Gelatinous Cube is a real threat to even a Lv5 or Lv6 party, let alone Lv2.
" There may be individual legendary monsters that are more powerful" yeah not anymore. Greatwyrms and the Aspects have mythic traits that give them over 1000 effective hit points, significantly more then A tarrasque. And Zariel got nerfed in monsters of the multiverse, losing about 150 hit points, meaning Red/Gold ancient dragons also have more hit points then everything besides a tarrasque, which they make up for with range and mobility. So other then Orcus, and that one ebberon monster with the giant antimagic field, dragons completely dominate the strongest monster spots. Even orcus with his mass undead summoning spam isn't burning through 1k hit points before he gets crushed by a greatwyrm/aspects DPR, and antimagic fields don't stop deities so the Aspects would wreck the Overlord(I know throwing monsters against each other isn't the same as the threat they represent to players, but I think the fact that they have almost triple the hit points of all archdevil/demon lords is all that needs to be said there)
Wait, they nerfed Zariel? She was super easy to deal with. Telekensis her weapon and her damage plummits like a rock. Same with yonogu and other things that require their weapons to function.
Ropers should be higher up. A DM can punish a party hard with one without even trying using the base Stat block. Matt Mercer did some major damage using just 2 in the second campaign. He also hid one over a gibbering mass on a bridge. They can wipe a party at level 6 way too fast.
How is Beholder considered deadly? I'd thought pretty much everyone knew by now that they're completely shut down by Fog Cloud. A single level 1 spell. Either the beholder anti-magics it, and can't Eye-ray the players hiding inside Or the beholder can't target with eye rays because the players can't be seen. They're an encounter that absolutely depends on having minions to actually deal with the party while the beholder stays well back and just antimagics the casters. On their own, they're not deadly at all.
My current character and the party’s Druid were both disintegrated by a Beholder. In the same fight, one round after the other. We came back through Reincarnation, but still.
As a 6 int bear totem barbarian intellect devour was my biggest fear because they would decimate the party (we do what ifs and at lvl 5 only the rogue lived had monk cleric and artificer who died)
Beholders are the reason we DM, some may claim its not the reason (they lie), but if it weren't for the story, every enemy (especially in 5e) would be a beholder. 10/10, would throw my friends into a pit of lava again. Also I would recommend that every beholder fight have some sort of pit or trap to throw people into with telekinesis or else you will be sad when it comes up.
I've found all kinds of fun things to throw players against. Spiked walls are good. The aforementioned pit was actually part of the beholder's network of vertical tunnels, with some horizontal tunnels dispersed in between to create and almost ant colony quality to the lair.
My party of 6 lvl 9 players beat an adult white dragon BECAUSE it was in its cave, couldn't fly high enough to fully escape our range and war mage on a ghost slayer bloodhunter x blade singer wizard with haste and spirit guardians is a RIDICULOUS amount of dps per round, plus green flame blade when it DID try to leave
Ideas, Tips and tricks for fighting Beholders and other monsters that rely on tricks instead of AC and big HP, and dishonorable mention to Gorgon and Drow Elite Warrior who get a lot of free poison on every attack and do not give you any poison if they die
Yeah like people have said shadows are pretty tough and so are kobolds. But I feel like all the goblins, especially bugbears, punch above their weight.
My party recently ran into a Couatl. I'm not sure it's supposed to make a list like this. But damn that thing is scary. With a flying speed of 90 ft !!! There is no escaping it. You fight, or you die. And fighting is not easy. It's stats are good, because all celestials seem to have mad stats. A CR 4, with 97HP and 19 AC is nothing to scoff at. With damage immunities (!!!) to: psychic, bludgeoning, piercing and slashing. Not every player may be able to even harm the damn thing. It has a bunch of spells, most are hardly usefull in combat, but some can boost its survivability even more, including the shield spell! Then the Couatl has some abilities to shut-down dangerous enemies. Preventing the 'dangerous players that can harm it, from actually fighting. Mainly: A poison bite, that it can use to quickly take down low CON-players, and make them fall unconscious. And a constrict, action which it can use to grapple and restrain another target. And in order to make it completely rediculous, it can shape-change into a humanoid or beast with equal or lower CR! Ever seen a moon-druid transform into a beast for a bunch of extra free HP? Well, the Couatl can do that. Every single turn. So pick your scarierst CR 4 beast/humanoid. And there are some tanky or scary CR4 beasts. The party will have to kill that in 1 turn, and have some 'leftover damage' in order to even harm it. If they cant kill it in 1 turn, they will just be fighting the beasts all day long, and not even get to the damn thing. Our party had 2 spellcaster, and 1 guys with a magical weapon. The other dude had to focus on a supporting role, because he could not contribute to the fight. After fighting the beast form, The coatl quickly took down the warlock with poison (low CON). After that, the DM send the Coatl close to the 'players'. The ranger (who didn't have magic damage at first) was quickly restrained, and later killed. The wizard tried to make some distance from the bites, but a reaction 'attack of opperturnity made him fall asleep. 3 down in in 2 combat rounds, without any serious damage done. The fighter was forced to do some 'support' actions for the first rounds, unable to damage the thing. Later picked up the warlocks magic sword to help out, We where not sure if he was able to even carry a hex-blade, but it didn't matter. He stayed alive for a few round, but got nowhere near 97 damage. Our DM didn't even have to do the brutal 'infinite shapeshifts' but it still unwinnable for our party, and my party managed to die from it.
I agree with all of them but the Shadow should have been on the list as well. It's a CR 1/2 and it can easily TPK a party of any level with its strength drain ability. It also makes another shadow if it kills the non-evil humanoid. It's very deadly.
Yeah I was reading through curse of straid and there's a early lvl dungeon like lvl 1 early. And if the party does something which there obviously going to do it spawns 3 shadows it's a guaranteed TPK in my opinion.
Yes-yes very deadly Chief
@@chunchunmaru123 I'm actually playing through this campaign. It summons 5 shadows. We barely made it out of that fight, and you fight it at level 2.
@@chunchunmaru123i began playing curse of strahd 4 months ago, in two seperate parties at the same time.
With the first party,
The party was made op of lvl 1s
A sorcerer
A monk
A barbarian
And two rogues.
We had a very easy time dealing with the shadows.
With the second party,
I already knew what will happen in that one room, but that did not change anything.
That party was made up of lvl 3s
A sorcerer
A ranger
A paladin
And a wizard.
This time, because we began at a higher level,
We had to fight five shadows.
And in all honesty, it was easy this time as well.
Alternate Title: 10 Monsters that prove CR is a lie.
Truth right there.
Nah, only CR cheats are ability score drainers because that isnt a DPR/EHP question.
If anything, all but the roper and bodak (or a EXTREMELY unlucky person facing a beholder) are the only cases where the CR rating is the cause of something being deadly instead of raw build probability.
ID and mind flayers are dangerous because people often face them without prot scrolls and int save prof respectively.
Night hags are more plot coupon monsters than threats and at best used as a level 4 villain turned level 5 fakeout boss to show off the power bump at 5.
Ghost combines the two and is both a plot coupon for a quest AND a danger when faced by people without prot def (or a cleric). If anything the aging part is the danger here to kill a old character via old age instead of the possession.
Hobgob is a wiff-whirlwind (like most sub +3 score and above 15 AC cr 1/2s) teaching positioning (they hit 40% of the time and 1/8th of it is a crit, so much like low level two weapon fighting enemies or multi-attackers, the real threat there is the same as with all low level enemies only more likely overall within session of a crit at levels 1-2), also shield can technically by raw be taken away by a party member to reduce the survival of these extra squishy 1/2s even further.
FnW become a problem if given the 1CR GS mount without counting the mount as a creature for CR calc as some people do with mounts for some reason, otherwise extremely low end in CR bracket, average for when likely encountered (and depend on hot water to live through the day).
And dragons are just dragons. They are what the cap of each CR bracket should be (and why you can give a dragon class levels appropriate to party/CR without it actually changing their CR).
@@ANDELE3025 meanest thing I ever did to a 20th level party was give an ancient blue dragon a level in tempest cleric, then 19 levels in fighter, I mean the dragon got two rounded, but man it had scary burst damage. 180 points of lightning damage and an action surge on the first turn
@@ADT1995 Im not sure if it can be meanest unless you went flyby-burrow runs with the blue as its technically still just a Hard fight of exactly the right CR (22-23s are expected to do 150-190 damage a round sustained or over 3 rounds a dpr of around 170ish).
Still hope twas nice/fun for the table.
Yes, I never understood how they came up with such poor CR rules, and then WotC doesn't even follow its own rules.
They should have learned from 3/3.5/4th edition when making 5e.
Gotta love that intellect devourer that killed me in the first chapter of waterdeep dragon heist. Thankfully, my DM was generous enough to homebrew a way to bring my brain back to normal, but my god were they nasty for an encounter designed for lvl 1 characters
Early-level D&D is super deadly no matter what edition you're playing. Commoners have 4hp and adventurers barely have more than that. If you can't kill the goblins in 1-4 rounds, better hope they miss a lot, because you're getting a potential 4d6+8 damage between four shortsword/shortbow attacks, possibly at advantage because they rolled high on Stealth every Bonus Action.
@@BeaglzRok1 you’re right. I learned that the hard way after that encounter. Personally, it’s not a design intent that I’m a fan of but I guess it helps to make the encounters more engaging when you’re starting off the campaign with little to no actions to make use of
My barbarian wasn't smart enough not to fight them, which turns out that makes me the easy target. lol...
@@ExciteFGC I don’t think it’s an intent to make the encounters more interesting rather than a philosophy that an adventurer at a lower level is literally inexperienced so things can be tough for them. This is why a lot of DMs start there players at level 3 than 1. 2 levels up from 1 and your character is just learning the basics and gotten some basics of their class. 2 up from three and they’ve become adept at their class and abilities and are more prepared to expect the unexpected.
Many encounters at level 1 can be deadly. Even simple goblins. I restarted a Mines of Phandelver module with some friends a few months ago. All of them have some, to a lot, of experience with DnD. First real combat encounter is an ambush by 4 goblins on the trail. Being good roleplayers, they played it so they fell for the ambush, even though their players all knew about it. But more than that, they were overconfident they would win, because it's 'just goblins' and the encounter is designed for level 1 players. One surprise round of arrows later, the wizard is unconscious and the rogue is looking rough. Then the goblins proceeded to harry them, taking potshots and running into the bushes to use their bonus action to hide, making counterattacks very difficult, forcing the party to choose between chasing them or tending to their fallen players first.
They eventually won, but the wizard never got to participate in the fight, the cleric was one bad death roll away from permanent death and the rogue was dangling at 2 HP. Only the barbarian was in relatively good shape after that first encounter.
And that was only because as the DM, I didn't wanna fuck them up too badly on a first fight, so I made the goblins run around in a frenzied state of panic after 2 of them died and one of the remaining 2 got heavily wounded.
Point being, if you're cocky and underestimate an encounter, anything can be deadly, even a lowly group of goblins. I had to pull my punches a little bit, or it was very possible that they would have suffered 3 KO's and one potential perma death.
Kobolds are pretty bad at level 1.
You're supposed to fight 8 of them, and they give each other Advantage on attacks.
Yeah, they are squishy, but they can easily overwhelm a party of 4 1st level characters.
The first encounter in Hoard of the Dragon Queen is 6 Kobolds. I have yet to run it without dropping a PC, unless I pull punches and have them run away. (I also didn't realize they get Pack Tactics back then.)
Bugbears are another one.
They deal 2d8+2 with a +4 to hit as a CR1 with an AC of 16 and 27hp.
They can also "snipe" a wizard with a 2d6+2 javelin.
people really undervalue the action economy with these "weaklings". "oh they are weak, let's just use 2 or 3 of them for each pc. math works fine" and then people start dropping...
CR1/8 does not mean that 8 of them equal CR1, read Xanathars passage on that. Action economy is a big deal
Tucker's Kobolds. Anyone who's read that understands how deadly kobolds are.
The 2d6+2 is only if the bugbear is using the javelin in melee, using it ranged they don't get the brute bonus, though if the bugbear surprises the party and yeets a javelin at the surprised wizard in the first round it would actually do 3d6+2
You obviously forgot the most dangerous of them all: The Crit Crab!
What's that ? I'm intrigued !
@@974cerebrate Joke is about cr 0 crabs beating a level 1 party, cause when one crits you you die even as a barbarian or something like that not sure anymore^^ more legend than facts, there is a channel who tells storys about bad dnd games who has the same name
@@DieFrauAmHerd yeah i thought dou were referencing him at first
It should be noted that the Lvl 1 spell Protection From Evil & Good can also end a Ghost's possession
I love that you mentioned Mr Rhexx, he's one of my favourite DnD channels.
yo i know u from ur WoW channel, i clicked on ur video and was like "ayo i know this voice".
I started my first dnd campaign this year, lovely having you making dnd content man, cheers
10:46 my first ever DND character was unalived by an intellect devourer. The Devourer took over my character and made him run off to serve another purpose elsewhere. RIP Vondal, Morgrim avenged you.
Swarm of Rot Grubs deserved an honorable mention.
Chance to auto-kill at any level
@@Spoopball Aren't they lovely?
A note for Beholders, they just straight up lose to the darkness spell. They need to see their target to hit it with it's rays and the only way they can get rid of it is with the anti-magic cone.
Also the shadow is stupidly tacky for cr 1/2 16 hp and resistance to a ton of things. unless you can deal radiant damage, they essentially have 32 hp, deal an average of 9 damage per turn, and the tank classes that can survive that at level 1 still suffer badly because they get their strength reduced.
You stay bunched up when you fight a beholder. If he blocks the spellcasters with his main eye then he can't use his rays. If he drops his main ray, he gets hammered by the spellcasters as well.
@@gustaafargoan I don't see why a beholder wouldn't spin like a top and fire eye beams while the eye is turned away while rotating back when it's done.
@@vxicepickxv That's not how turns work in DnD. Sure he can spin, but turns are almost simultaneously, one gets the slightest drop on the other. All attacks take place within a 6 second period. Action, bonus action, reaction is one 6 second period. When a sorcerer finishes his spell, is the Beholder facing him or is his back turned? If he was spinning would he fire his eye rays at disadvantage or extreme disadvantage? I would allow him to spin giving spells cast against him a 15% chance of occurring (finiishing) within the eye beam. I would make the Beholder roll 6d20 and take the lowest roll for his attack.
Playing in a campaign where we had to storm a Mind Flayer stronghold. Thankfully, there were only ~12 Mind Flayers total, before you start counting the Orog guards, the multiple Scaladar, the Elder Brain, the Neolithid that they locked in front of their side entrance with a giant Wall of Force, or the Thoon Hulk that was homebrew converted.
With a DM ruling that, because Mind Flayers can use Detect Thoughts/telepathy to sense that we were on the other side of an illusory door, they didn't need to make an Investigation check to discern that the Major Image was fake, we got hit with no fewer than four consecutive Mind Blasts in one round.
Four INT saves.
Which Stun for ten whole rounds of combat if you can't make a DC 15 INT save at the end of each of your turns.
In a 60ft cone AoE.
That recharges 33% of the time at the start of the Mind Flayer's Turn.
And Stuns.
The Stunned condition inflicts the Incapacitated condition, and makes you unable to move. The Incapacitated condition makes you unable to Concentrate on spells, such as Major Image, or take Actions or Reactions. Among several other things, but that's the one that sticks out a lot.
We were a Level 13 party with an entire Young Red Dragon, Githyanki Gish, and several Githyanki Knights/Warriors, and we still nearly TPK'd at the gate. The only things that really saved us were that 1. the next five Mind Flayers trickled in one at a time (each with a fresh Mind Blast of course), 2. the remaining three stayed behind to guard the Elder Brain, 3. we had an entire Large Dragon between us and 4d12+8 damage Multiattack Thoon Hulk, and 4. a Wildfire Druid that could sink an entire Heal spell into the dragon so it wouldn't be at 0 for its brain to get eaten, and use her Wildfire Spirit to mass-half-Misty-Step stunned people out of the front line on a separate Initiative count.
And now that we're Level 16, we STILL have to deal with at least one unaffiliated Mind Flayer and his at-least-trio of Grey Slaads, without ANY help!
The one monster everyone at my table fears is the Catoblepas, that death ray attack is so overtuned for CR 5 is just becomes funny.
The shadow is an incredibly deadly undead low CR monster. Between it's incorporeal form and the fact that it's a tax can permanently drop strength I find that they easily can kill parties and have had a couple situations where a couple shadows just thrown into a dungeon as filler monsters ended up taking a PC down or killing them.
It’s attacks don’t permanently drop strength, at least not in 5e unless your DM is evil lol. The reduction should only last until the next short or long rest.
@@MrDarkx1000 yes so in a combat encounter usually permanently since your wizard with a strength is going to die
a tax
thing to bear in mind with the hobgoblin is it can't use both hands on a longsword and it's shield, it also takes a full action to remove or put on a shield so you can either have the higher ac or the higher damage per attack but not both.
Yeah though that only drops its average damage by 1.
Just give it plate máil.
@@Exophite ok disadvantage on all attacks then. (not proficient)
@@SirStanleytheStumbler They are proficient in Chain Mail, which is a Heavy armor, so it save to assume they would proficient in any heavy armor. Though their 13 Str would reduce their speed by 10 ft, the additional AC often worth the reduced speed
@@honahamomoru151 and giving your LEVEL 1 players 2 sets of plate mail. Madness
I like monsters like these as they remind me of a time when D&D had very little concern for the welfare of the player.
I wouldn’t want all the hardcore difficulty back, but some legit mechanically scary monsters are refreshing.
Thanks much my friend. I for one, very much appreciate it when vid Hosts put focus on the lower level critters in the game, as it provides great fuel to us DMs when determining early level random challenges or even selecting appropriate supportive goons for BBEGs.
Time now to view your others vids and determine if subscribing is worthwhile. I have a hunch... it will be! :)
I feel parts of this list are great but not the whole list I personally feel most Dragons are too weak in 5e for example. Beholders and Intellect devours deserve this list. Also I need to add shadows, Shadows are crazy deadly!
I second shadows, the drain is super scary at their CR
At high-level play, dragons are dominant right now through sheer tankiness. After zariel getting nerfed in monsters of the multiverse, Ancient red and golds have way more hit points then anything but a tarrasque, and Greatwyrms/Aspects with mythic traits can have upwards of 1k hit points to burn through. The argument of " I killed the dragon in 1-2 rounds" can be applied to other monsters in the game, much more easily.
@@davidstumpf7811 The strength isn't extra lethal for their CR. It makes them scary in numbers to higher level characters but if you get strength drained to 0 on a level 1 character then the shadow has to hit you at least 3 times. That's gonna kill you anyhow and any level 1 character dies in 3 hits.
@@TwoToneShoes Shadows can kill 20th level characters unlike other CR 1/2's! If they get to act first 20 Shadows could potentially kill at least 1 member of a party of 4 20th level characters! I defy any other CR 1/2 to do the same. What about even any CR5 or less!? ( maybe a few like intellect devourer...)
If you have tactical players with decent magic items MOST official monsters in 5e are WAY too weak. I often power them up a lot. BUT it depends on the circumstance: size of Party, level, current resource's used, tactical level of the players, gear and terrain effects. As well as logical tactics of the enemies.
Dragons DESERVE their CR they are not for me 'STRONG' for their CR in general.
Unless you have foolish players with crappy gear and that for some unknown reason lack the basic tactics to ALWAYS have and use RANGED FIRST and switch to melee as a last resort/when tactics dictate. And take cover, use magic items, use tactical/control and defensive spells. People who understand their spells and abilities....
Then yes any flying enemy with ranged becomes "OP".
For me they punch at not above the CR. Shadows are DEADLY at ALL levels. I can guarantee you 100 Shadows is MORE dangerous than 100 of anything else in the game of CR1 or below VS a Party of 4; 20th level characters! EVEN if that party has a Cleric!
The Tarrasque is also pathetically weak and undeserving of CR30 its at best CR24 as is from the book. I use my upgraded version rather than the book one.
Heck one Shapechange into a clay golem. Or any Flight + unlimited ammo+ magic ranged weapon = victory...
Always power up MOST base monsters!
Some key things to add
Magic weapons (Tarrasque and dragons claws and bite aren't magical? You realize golems and lycantropes instantly beat them if they lack Breath weapon or the swallowing acid. (hence why clay golem beats the tarrasque) For me its crazy an ancient dragons/ or the Tarrasques claws are not magical in base 5e!
Bonus actions (such as a special ranged ability), Reactions (such as a parry)
Immutable form/ or can't be shapeshifted against their will.
Magic resistance
And more than Max HP (I call this Boss HP) Why doesn't the Tarrasque have at least 1000 HP? It's the Tarrasque?! A CR 30 'world destroyer' Well until a cities clay golem tarrasque defence squad shows up to defeat the 'obliterates everything in its path'
... Can't even hurt a Golem or Lycanthrope unless it Swallows them! Speed of 40 ft.
War Horses speed60 ft. ...
1 mounted archer With a magic bow on a regular Warhorse can outrun it and kill it. Just stay a bit a head of it turn around and fire arrows. No ranged, no magic weapons, stupid (so bad tactics), etc.
Also am making a 3rd party book myself right now AND I use other 3rd party and base game content. I mostly have to strengthen monsters. A lot.
Not shadows, there already OP!
As a member of a 17th level party of 5 players with at least 1 party member with a magical longbow (or other ranged weapon) I'd rather face 1 Tarrasque than 20 shadows on a dark night!
5e dragons are only weak if you both dont use dragon tactics AND dont use the full MM rules for them.
Give them both the innate spellcasting and generic monster modified with class levels rules, optionally without the hit dice (that would both pointlessly drag up the defensive cr without much effect AND make the fight about as much time as just maxing out the hp except for 1-3 die rolls).
And IDs only belong on lists if one assumes weaknesses placed on a statblock arent assumed to be options for the party (ID vs 0 cleric 0 scroll party, even one of higher level if used as mooks, than as a above daily budget "deadly" encounter on which the party spent 200g prior to steamroll through.
A few stories:
Night Hag- As a DM, I have one of these as a recurring villain because she escaped the party. Their real danger is in lore, because they can accumulate other difficult monsters like banderhobbs and banshees, which wreaked having on the party.
Hobgoblin- As a DM, had one as an NPC helping the party in a fight. Did not expect him to hit for so much. Also did not expect him to prove to be a glass cannon when he was taken out in a single hit by an enemy. The party healed him, and I've since given him the Hobgoblin Captain stat block instead.
Fire newt- As a player in a level 3 party, we came upon a group of these and destroyed them. I think we had my monk, a scout rogue, a star druid, and another character I can't remember (it was a one-shot). Thematically it was a great time, especially when my lizard folk monk ran up and ripped the neck out of the fire newt's mount. Maybe because we were level three, but they did not pose much of a threat at all.
Ghost- As a DM, I've run ghosts twice. The second time, it immediately possessed a paladin (level 4 party). However, the Wild Magic sorcerer went next, then hit the paladin with a chaos bolt followed by a Wild Magic Surge... which let her strike the paladin with lightning. That's how the possession and the paladin were ended in one turn. In the other game I ran, the half-elf sorcerer was aged up but wasn't too affected, but the human immediately turned 60. They were later healed by NPC's though.
Bodak- As a DM, ran this in a level 10 one-shot. The paladin took one step around a corner, failed his save against the bodak bad, and immediately crumbled. The following fight was cool, with a lot of hit and run tactics. I ran a bodak again against the same players but a different campaign, but the bodak there was chained up and used more as a security system/trap by the above Night Hag. They got by this second bodak a lot easier.
Mind Flayer- As a DM, I reskinned the mind flayer as some unknown aberration conjured by a beholder's dream. But I didn't thoroughly read the stat block, so when it grappled and stunned the level 5 half-elf sorcerer and I realized I could basically one-shot him, I had to hold back because that would have been an unfair kill. The other players freed the sorcerer, who has since developed an intense hatred for calamari.
Bonus round: banshees and catoblepas deserve a mention for similar reasons. Haven't run the catoblepas in game, but they can fully kill a player with their death glare. And banshees are a lot like bodaks: while they can only do their wail once per day, they have a fly speed, a fear effect, and can move through objects. Plus good resistances and immunities. The same player who fell to the bodak failed their save against a banshee and dropped to zero (and got gobbled by a banderhobb). Also, that was the same player who got aged by a ghost and grappled by the mind flayer (and he was nearly eaten by a mimic). He comes up a lot in my stories haha
This is exactly why I don’t trust challenge rating.
If I’m going to preplan an encounter I will test it out myself keeping in mind how my party’s characters would act most likely and how the creature there fighting would most likely act.
I love the fact that number 1 is just all dragons.
This is gonna be an amazing video
Top 10 Polymorph Options based on CR. I keep hearing Polymorph as the "end all/be all" spell for Fourth Levels spells (and, sometimes, beyond) yet it seems to be rather limiting in its capabilities.
Really its just the fact you can take a 5 hp fighter back up to 130 hp (Often double their hp at that level.) instantly and keep their damage by making them a Giant Ape. Its a wizard and sorceror's best method of healing. Otherwise its used to turn an enemy into a snail or something at which point you can use any method of cheese to get rid of it. Drowning is often the best method as the creature will drown when it shifts back due to dropping to 0 hp from drowning. If the creature doesn't need to breath, you have Lava at 18d10/round or the bag of holding sending them to the astral plane. I've ended combats with BBEGs with polymorph and these tricks once the legendary resistances wore off.
@@archmagemc3561 But what's the advantage of turning a creature into one form or another? Why is Giant Ape, T-Rex, etc always the best choice? Why not something more creative? Or is it a stat thing where those just happen to have the best stats and they make the other 99% of options irrelevant?
@@Xani13 The altter. There are very, very few beasts over CR 5, and thats the issue. Just a lack of options.
@@archmagemc3561 Ah. Gotcha.
@@archmagemc3561 you cant drown a polymorphed creature, it returns to its original form with its hp the same as it was.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Kind of surprised the Catoblepas wasn't mentioned. They have an aura that can poison you and an eye beam which can instantly kill you
Same for the Banshee
Same with the Shadow.
In 3.5e, the Cockatrice was a frighteningly deadly monster at CR 3. It had a fly speed of 60 ft, had a huge attack bonus, and if it hit, the player had to make a DC 12 fortitude save or be petrified permanently.
I remember throwing a young white at a cocky mid level party, attacking them on a boat going between 2 iceberg. The only things that saved them was the totem barbarian and is rage, without that it was a tpk. They didn't even killed it, they just had the luck to move past is territory, entering where the elderbrain bbe was, forcing him to flee. Even, they where more humble after that lol
Grey Oozes are also very deadly to lv 1 characters. Sure, 8 AC is mostly trivial to hit, but 22 hp means they are tanking at least a couple of hits and when they do hit you they do 1d6 + 2d6 acid damage, which is a lot for first level. Oh, and they permanently damage metal weapons and armor, making it so they either need to be repaired or replaced very quickly. They have a CR of 1/2.
Nice MrRhexx name drop
Surprised shadows weren’t on the list
Loved your list very iconic
Of all the dragons, the white dragon is the one that can punch highest above its weight class, even though it has the lowest challenge rating. Being able to fly, swim, and burrow makes them exceptionally mobile and able to outmaneuver most parties. If the DM plays them properly instead of just as a ball of stats, there isn't a single enemy in the game more challenging for its power level.
Maybe that's why the lore puts them as the dumbest of all the dragons.
Yeah, but speaking from experience, if you play a Dragon "properly", you look like and feel like a dick
"yeah, she's just gunna fuck off 200 feet up until her breath comes back, good luck with that"
That video was super good!
Hey maybe you could make video about Best Summons spells Due to How deadly creatures they can summon based on their CR?
Worth noting that many (not all) of these creatures have terrible saving throws across the board, and many have negative scores on strength and charisma. A good wizard knows some spells that are the least common saving throws and can throw put at creatures that are clearly vulnerable.
Great video!
Nice guide. Note:the hobgoblin is using a shield, can only use the longsword in 1-hand.
One that I personally think is way above its CR are Bulletes. It's only CR5 but it's fairly chunky. It's a simple monster but it's surprising difficult to deal with because of the burrowing and a fight often starts on the backfoot as 90% of the time it's going to burst up from the ground and jump on your party when they're all clumped up in a travel group. If they jump around a lot, they can really shred up a party.
Good call Buddy. A DM that knows what this beastie is capable of and how to use it properly, can destroy a comparative Party really quick. Yeah, TPKs are not an "objective" but it can certainly humble a group of Murder Hobbos VERY quickly! :)
Doppelgangers are hard to quantify but quit deadly in some groups
I currently have a level 12 party that is being terrorized by a Rakshasa. The Rakshasa has a succubus under him that stays in the ethereal plane to spy on the party, and the rakshasa shows up, usually disguised or invisible in a large group setting like a pub, manages to get suggestion on one of the players with low charisma to turn on the party and then tags a couple with his claw attack to curse them. As the only spellcaster is a warlock they don't have remove curse and he can only use 5th level spells the Rakshasa just plane shifts away after cursing a couple people
Love series will you do top 10 for 8th level and do more damage type
Anything with a "drop to zero" effect deserves a spot in the list of monsters that are way deadlier than their cr would tell, I think the Catoblepas has a death gaze too.
Eh...one party member dropping to zero is still a long way from a TPK. Unless the monster has high HP and AC, you're still going to kill it way before it can use that ability on all 4 of you. Plus, 50/50 chance after getting dropped to zero a character gets back up. If it was a true save or die effect that would be different
@@agentchaos9332 that's true, that's true. I'm not saying they'll tpk the game but a gm does have to be wary when using creatures with such abilities.
Banshee is also quite deadly, they can sense the party, como from across a wall and do a save or down aoe before the combat starts and goes back to the wall, its not supertank if your party has magical weapons, but otherwise its quite bulky for the CR 4
Kinda surprised giant poisonous snakes weren't on the list given how often they came up in the early lists
A worse thing about an intellect devourer is that; if the player that had its brain removed dies, even a raise dead spell wont bring them back. As Raise dead does not restore missing body parts. So a 7th level resurrection spell would to be used.
Hobgoblins are one of my favorite low-level monsters to pit against the group. Throw in a Homebrewed Hobbie mage and really watch them sweat as they can cast up to 2nd level spells (sleep, mirror image, shield, and chromatic orb).
Nice, glad to see the dragon made the list
Great video, was good to know all of this
PD: I am currently playing the Tirany of the Dragons, should I be scared :')?
Holy shit you're awesome for making this too.
I sometimes forget that you have multiple channels that I really like. I started this video and went "wait. This voice is really familiar..."
Huh, no quickling here? CR1 creature that makes 3 attacks at +8 dealing 1d4+6 damage, leading to a potential damage of 3d4 + 18. Sure, it's a little weak defensively (10hp, 16 ac) but all attacks are made at disadvantage against it. Plus, if it goes first this creature could easily down two players.
Also, it has a ranged attack of 20/60 to make sure it can reach the backline if it's 120ft walking speed doesn't for whatever reason.
Wow you put dragons high on your op list and the dungeon dudes put it on the under powered list it's funny to see how different experiences change your opinion. I've seen dragons get one rounded but I've also had the scariest fight of my life against them. A great example of how it can either be easy or awful is critical role season one the cromaconclave. Soon to be on their show
The thing with dungeon dudes videos, is they assume you're gonna use crowd control abilities like wall of force/forcecage/prismatic wall. And that's a very niche, min/max playstyle that very few players use. But sure, if you wanna spam those abilities and then add concentration AOE spells like sickening radiation, then really anything without teleportation can be killed low-difficulty. If you roll high on initiative the party won't even take damage, if you drop a forcecage on them first
Which is also why they went and made a bunch of videos talking mad shit about the vecna Stat block. Because yes while his Low AC and HP makes him really weak for his CR in general his ability to spam counterspell makes him one of the only monsters in the game that has a chance against their broken Crowd control hax playstyle
Two things, the sentinel feet counters better than spells and treantmonk did a video on how 2 level 20 fighters with no magical items can 1 round him with average damage so he's a little weak for general game design
@@jakewarman7277 i know that's the exact video I'm talking about lol. Which was intentionally made to DISTRACT from the fact that he's hell on wheels against a party of all casters. Go watch the video where they actually run the adventure, Vecna lasts 3 rounds and manages to kill a player, and without subtle spellcasting he would have killed 1/2 more
@@jakewarman7277 also having reaction attacks that can immobilize creatures, and extra conditions you can use a reaction attack on? Not even comparable to locking targets in an indestructible barrier that lasts ten minutes with no concentration. Sentinel requires you to hit your target, and the effects only last one round. Force wall lasts the whole encounter and then some, doesn't require an attack role, doesn't allow a saving throw, and is literally unbeatable without specific Magical abilities. Like..you could stick Demigorgon In a force cage and leave him there for ten minutes, there's nothing he can do about it. And you could keep hitting him with spells while he's in there. If you had 5 reactions you could take each round then it would maybe be close. But even then, they can keep hitting YOU with no disadvantage. Force wall/cage prevents a monster from hitting Anyone at all
Calcryx, the white dragon wyrmling in sunless citadel, just oneshotted almost the entire party, the only surviver of her breath weapon was able to negotiate a surrender sooo ... they got extremely lucky ...
The same happened to me. I was dming, they got into the combat, instant breath. The cleric and the silver dragonborn paladin drop instantly. It was fucking terrifying and had to pull its punches to avoid a tpk on the second session. After that, once they got the hang of it, dragons no longer pull their punches. Nightscale from the Forge of Fury killed the barbarian before dying herself. Dragons are the strongest of their own CR.
@@pablosoria4071 that one almost tpk'd us in the first turn as well ^^
@@kayas7574 it is to be expected, it is a lot of damage and even the paladin with resistance to cold damage fainted because Calcryx got a good damage roll and the paladin failed the save. Fortunately, the others spread out in such a way that it couldn't target them all, but it was crazy scary for a second session of lvl 1 characters.
Nice, great video! Can u make a vid about "top 10 monster for new dm dont kill your party! XD
Singly, Kobolds aren't a threat. But played into their lore, where they'll make extensive use of ambushes, traps and their (in)famous Pack Tactics. Even the basic Kobold at 1/8 cr can be scary. The winged and inventer variants are way stronger than their 1/4 cr indicates, and the Sorcerer version is straight up dangerous.
3:48 and this is where my boy the dragon born would come in handy
One that got us was the Githzerai Zerth. It's a CR 6 creature with Multiattack, +7 to hit, 2d6+4 + 3d8 damage. On average, that's 24 damage per attack. Because +7 is a good attack bonus at level 6, this thing was near about wiping us out everytime one showed up. AC17, and with its Jump and Shield innate abilites, we couldn't get away from it, nor hit it. It was incredibly frustrating and near deadly every time.
>Challenge rating is a simple metric
I'm gunna have to stop you right there.
Edit: Just finished the video. I'd say Rot Grubs and Shadow deserve to be on this list. Anything that has an instant drop to zero or stat drain ability is incredibly dangerous almost agnostic of player level. It should also be mentioned that CR operates under the assumption that your players fight 5-6 fights of that CR per day. One CR 5 monster should not be a challenge to a level 5 party if it's the only thing they spend resources on that day.
Which is kind of the point of this list. These are all normal encounters by CR, but hyper deadly in their own right.
I have found a wild Logs account, I thank you for this content.
to the best of my knowledge the beholders anti-magic field doesn't affect its own rays because the eye stalks are behind the main eye and not inside the cone "Which starts in front of the beholder not on top of its location" that may be up to each DM/GM to decide for themselves but i've never seen one affected by the cone.
Will-O-Wisps are also pretty tough if you have enough of them. Invisibility, fast (+9 to initiative), 50' flight, Damage Resistances, Condition Immunities and Damage Immunities, and 19 AC for a CR2 is pretty good. You can raise them to 36 HP if you're facing a stronger party and still be realistic. If a party member goes down, Consume Life.
The roper is formidable, but there is a funny way to effectively make yourself immune to it. If you cast armor of agathys at level 2 or higher, it can't grapple you. Any hit from a tendril triggers 10 frost damage which destroys the tendril. Since the tendrils don't do damage on a hit, you keep AoA and since it can't grapple you just stay more than 10 feet away from it as you attack.
A surprisingly difficult CR 1/4 monster is the animated broom. 17hp 15ac +5 to hit double attack that averages at 5 damage.
I have scarred quite a few players with surprise broom ambushes in closets. Still annoying at higher levels with their 15ac. Three of them almost took out a lvl 8 hexadin in the Amber Temple.
I have since incorporated homebrewed animated cleaning supplies in multiple one-shots. My personal favorites is the blinding animated bucket and the swarm of animated rags that is based on the rug of smothering.
Not necessarily deadly to a party, but unless you have a teleportation option or Freedom of Movement, Boneless are terrifying in a 1 on 1 context. Their Crushing Embrace action automatically succeeds if you are already grappled, and even if you throw them off of you using the Strength check, you're still grappled by them, and breaking the grapple would take an action, so you can't stop them from doing it again next turn. Thus, if you can't teleport or cast Freedom of Movement, or use Action Surge, your only option is to keep attacking them at disadvantage and hope you kill them before they crush or suffocate you.
usman bhai maza a gaya
Shadows without a doubt should get a mention, their strength drain ability is incrediy deadly because it puts a timer on your character's life other than your hit points while decreasing your overall effectiveness.
There is actually a way to "cheese" a Beholder fairly easily: Place a Darkness spell between it and the party, since it's eye-rays require line-of-sight to work and a Beholder can't see through magical darkness without canceling it out with it's central eye, meaning that the Beholder either has to temporarily cancel the Darkness spell with it's central eye (which also means that it still can't use it's eye-rays and has to resort to it's melee Bite attack), move through the Darkness spell and closer to the party, or just be stuck there unable to actually attack the party while the Darkness is in place. Meanwhile, the party can just stay put and have ranged weapons readied, so that if the Beholder cancels the Darkness spell with it's central eye, the entire party can just immediately shoot the hell out of the thing.
My beholder would just retreat into another tunnel and try to flank the party, using lair actions to weaken the party, as the stalks do not require line of sight, just distance.
Dear DLogs, where do you get the time to both run D&D Logs and Duel Logs and still do great and accurate research with non repeated facts that I never heard anywhere before?
TheManaLogs as well for magic the gathering
It's honestly a crime that these videos aren't getting 10x the amount of views. Well made, informative, and fun tidbits of info!
Bro how many channels do you have?
I think I can incorporate two of these into my next dungeon.
So for the first game I ran for my level 1 party, I had them go up against a pair of Crag Cats. I thought it would be fine; there were 6 PCs and Crag Cats are CR 1 and if I needed to I could fudge some damage rolls. The Crag Cats would have won handily if the party hadn't been able to makes them scared enough to run away.
For a CR 1 they have beefy hp at an average of 34 but it is balanced a bit with the 13 AC. They can choose to either Bite (1d10 +3) or Claw (1d8 + 3) which is damage that a level 1 party can manage so long as they are smart about it. But the Crag Cat's special abilities are what make it really nasty for a CR1; Pounce and Spell Turning.
Pounce means that if they move at least 20 feet towards a creature and hit them with a claw attack, average 7 damage, the player has to make a DC 13 Strength save, which is doable but challenging for some classes, or get knocked prone; the nastiest part of a successful Pounce is that the Crag Cat then gets to make a Bite attack, at advantage, as a Bonus Action. Being able to an average of 15 damage in one round is fairly nasty for a CR 1 but that doesn't even count Spell Turning.
Spell Turning gives the Crag Cat advantage on all saving throws on spells that target them and if the they succeed on the save then, so long as the spell is bellow 8th level, the spell hits the caster instead.
Oh and a little extra bit of trickiness is that they cannot be targeted or detected by an divination magic or scrying sensors.
I don’t have an exact count, but it feels like a fair few low CR creatures have abilities with effects that can only be undone via greater restoration or better. Which, as noted in the video, the party is unlikely to have. And I gotta ask: Why? Why design low CR monsters with powers the party almost certainly cannot undo, especially in the case of monsters like ghosts where there’s a short time limit?
Higher level parties often face multiple lower CR creatures; they are not necessarily meant for equal level parties.
Legacy. 5E might be a forgiving game, but it is built an a saga of brutal deaths.
There is also group CR adjustments for larger monster battles. Someone else mentioned that.
@@InquisitorThorn Some you can argue that for, like the Intellect Devourer (even if they removed the handy thing where they provided example of what creatures should show up in what group sizes), but what of the ghost? That doesn't strike me as something that should inherently be fought in multiples at higher levels, unless one is supposed to assume that anything that asks for greater restoration is meant to be that way.
My favorite for under CRed monsters comes from 3rd edition.
The giant monstrous crab. (aka "that damn crab".)
This thing was a large crab with 40ft movement, 19 AC, 91 HP, and two +19 grapple attacks. It does 1d8+9 points of damage on it's initial claw attack(s) (read grapple) then it gets to use it's constrict ability for free, dealing and extra 1d8+9 points of damage. it has two claws so it can grapple twice per round. a tough fighter or barbarian might survive a round being grappled but they're not beating that +19 grapple roll so they're going to die the next round; baring a nat 20 that is.
So this thing can do 20-34 points of damage in one round to two characters. Then chase the rest down with its fast movement and kill the rest.
This thing is a tough fight for a level 5 party, and a level appropriate fight for a seventh level party.
plus it's Amphibious and is vermin so it is immune to mind affecting effects and has darkvision and can live underwater. so it can surprise the party while it's out at the beach, on a boat; in an undersea cave or in any dark, watery location; or hell just charge out of the water in the middle of broad daylight and wreck the party. plus it's got more than two legs and is large so it gets a huge bonus vs any trip attempts so you can't really flip it on it's shell.
Oh yeah, it's CR 3. it was put out on the WOTC website wayyyy back in the day. might still be floating around the internet somewhere.
No Shadows? Overlord Sul Khatesh, Queen of Shadows is the strongest DND monster by far.
Sul Khatesh from eberon is my favorite example of a cr lie. She can conjure a massive area of anti magic, but she is immune to the effects of the anti magic. So she can use all of her spells and abilities normally, it’s just the party can’t. And she’s immune to nonmagical damage so as long as she stays in the zone the party can’t hurt her. This lasts for an entire hour so you can’t beat her with endurance either. Now they are cr 26, but considering the poster child for cr 30 is the tarrasque. Which literally loses to any mid level party or any party with magic and flight. Being essentially impossible to defeat without homebrew items or everyone being decked out in multiple artifacts is definitely higher than cr 26.
The problem with her? an optimized bugbear gloomstalker/echo knight can take her out in the first round due to her low hp. And that character will win initiive as their minimum initive they can roll is a 14 usually.
@@archmagemc3561 Few problems; AC 22 + shield gives an ac of 27. Meaning even if you had a +14 to hit (+5 ability score, +6 proficiency, +3 legendary magic item) means you’d have to put out over 1000 damage on the first round after factoring in accuracy. She also has foresight, so she can have advantage on initiative if the dm uses it. She can also use shapechange to boost initiative if the dm wishes.
That being said, if you have a party specialized in ftks, you might be able to kill her. However, two abilities make her probably the strongest enemy in the game, her anti magic ability and her maddening secrets ability. Maddening secrets can stun any pure martial as it’s a dc 26 wisdom save and if you don’t have spell slots you get stunned. And, more importantly, if you don’t kill her first turn, her anti magic ability means she’s essentially impossible to defeat.
The reason I think she should be on the list is no other enemy, no matter the cr, has an ability that requires you kill them in one turn. Also, post the dpr calculations for your character against an ac 22 creature. I will grant 22 ac since shield can be counterspelled as she doesn’t ignore components to my recollection.
Gas Spore: CR 1/2, AC 5, 1 hit point, but it has a death burst effect and it takes a DC 15 Nature check to notice it's not a beholder. Its attack is only +0, and only does 1 poison damage, but also forces a dc 10 con save vs its death burst effect. Its death burst has a radius of 20 feet and a con save DC of 15, so somewhat harder to make than average for this CR, and without a way to cure disease, ***WILL*** kill anyone who fails, in 1d12+con score hours, which is, at most, 32 hours, if they get lucky with their roll and have a con score of 20. That's right, without access to either a Paladin or 2nd level spells on a druid or a cleric (or a bard who chose Lesser Restoration), a single CR 1/2 creature can easily wipe an party, and even with access to such spells, without sufficient spell slots, and with unlucky rolls on the time, practically guarantees at least 1 kill.
Mind flayers are crazy. One with Legendary Resistance can be a boss for even a higher level party
My party: Let's dump Int!
Intellect Devourer: You sure bout dat?
My Ranger Lean Hardy was incredibly close to being killed by an intellect devourer. His int is 8 so the fact that the dm rolled 7 was a miracle
I definitely held back on killing one of my players on session 3 because I wasn't aware of how deadly intellect devourers can be, especially in large numbers.
@@vxicepickxv Wow without that first sentence id take you for a dm with a monocle smiling at the players while twirling your moustache
The banshee. If you fail the save against the wail, you drop to 0hp. And it’s an AOE so you can potentially tpk before the fight even begins
Force damage works on creatures in the ethereal plane. Also ropers used to be more dangerous since their tentacles paralyze on touch.
Wasnt stat drain removed in 5e?
I've always felt that Ogres are extremely deadly for their CR. At CR 2 the Ogre does 2d8+4 with their melee attack and 2d6+4 with a ranged attack. Not only does it hit like a truck, it also has 59 hp.
No mention of banshee? One scream could potentially TPK an entire party if they're unlucky. Umber hulks are pretty bad too. High AC, high HP, constant confusion ability, and 3 attacks per round with an average damage output of 32 at CR 5.
What about the Tarrasque?
And Banshees are also terrifying on lower leves
Sadly Tarrasque is kinda poop. It is just an absolute brute that will eventually die to tactics like fly, range and other cheese. Considering players will be high level when they fight it they will have many options.
Lmao I remember how our party ran into a Bodak in a dungeon, so the cleric (me) used Fog Cloud and just got rid of the danger of her gaze, while the party beat her up from far away, as she was in a boat trying to row towards us, but I stopped her main ability.
You mentioned multiple creatures that target Intelligence as it's tied for the stat most likely to be a dump stat, and didn't even mention the Gelatinous Cube? It's tanky a f and can easily TPK a party that doesn't have the Strength to get out of it once engulfed. One CR2 Gelatinous Cube is a real threat to even a Lv5 or Lv6 party, let alone Lv2.
" There may be individual legendary monsters that are more powerful" yeah not anymore. Greatwyrms and the Aspects have mythic traits that give them over 1000 effective hit points, significantly more then A tarrasque. And Zariel got nerfed in monsters of the multiverse, losing about 150 hit points, meaning Red/Gold ancient dragons also have more hit points then everything besides a tarrasque, which they make up for with range and mobility. So other then Orcus, and that one ebberon monster with the giant antimagic field, dragons completely dominate the strongest monster spots. Even orcus with his mass undead summoning spam isn't burning through 1k hit points before he gets crushed by a greatwyrm/aspects DPR, and antimagic fields don't stop deities so the Aspects would wreck the Overlord(I know throwing monsters against each other isn't the same as the threat they represent to players, but I think the fact that they have almost triple the hit points of all archdevil/demon lords is all that needs to be said there)
Wait, they nerfed Zariel? She was super easy to deal with. Telekensis her weapon and her damage plummits like a rock. Same with yonogu and other things that require their weapons to function.
@@archmagemc3561 yeah they dropped her Hit point average from 580 down to 420( 160 points) so not a huge change but she dies faster
Ropers should be higher up. A DM can punish a party hard with one without even trying using the base Stat block. Matt Mercer did some major damage using just 2 in the second campaign. He also hid one over a gibbering mass on a bridge. They can wipe a party at level 6 way too fast.
I once tpk’d the party with a single ghost that I possessed their absurdly minmaxed fighter with. It was very funny, both for me and them.
How is Beholder considered deadly?
I'd thought pretty much everyone knew by now that they're completely shut down by Fog Cloud. A single level 1 spell.
Either the beholder anti-magics it, and can't Eye-ray the players hiding inside
Or the beholder can't target with eye rays because the players can't be seen.
They're an encounter that absolutely depends on having minions to actually deal with the party while the beholder stays well back and just antimagics the casters. On their own, they're not deadly at all.
Additionally, beholders only have 20' move speed.
Anybody with more than 120' range can easily kite them.
My current character and the party’s Druid were both disintegrated by a Beholder. In the same fight, one round after the other.
We came back through Reincarnation, but still.
As a 6 int bear totem barbarian intellect devour was my biggest fear because they would decimate the party (we do what ifs and at lvl 5 only the rogue lived had monk cleric and artificer who died)
Beholders are the reason we DM, some may claim its not the reason (they lie), but if it weren't for the story, every enemy (especially in 5e) would be a beholder. 10/10, would throw my friends into a pit of lava again. Also I would recommend that every beholder fight have some sort of pit or trap to throw people into with telekinesis or else you will be sad when it comes up.
I've found all kinds of fun things to throw players against. Spiked walls are good. The aforementioned pit was actually part of the beholder's network of vertical tunnels, with some horizontal tunnels dispersed in between to create and almost ant colony quality to the lair.
My party of 6 lvl 9 players beat an adult white dragon BECAUSE it was in its cave, couldn't fly high enough to fully escape our range and war mage on a ghost slayer bloodhunter x blade singer wizard with haste and spirit guardians is a RIDICULOUS amount of dps per round, plus green flame blade when it DID try to leave
The Master of Souls from Descent into Avernus. Creature you fight at level 2 that has 2 level 3 spell slots which it can use to cast FIREBALL
Ideas, Tips and tricks for fighting Beholders and other monsters that rely on tricks instead of AC and big HP, and dishonorable mention to Gorgon and Drow Elite Warrior who get a lot of free poison on every attack and do not give you any poison if they die
The Banshee and Catoblepas come to mind as instant killers
Yeah like people have said shadows are pretty tough and so are kobolds. But I feel like all the goblins, especially bugbears, punch above their weight.
My party recently ran into a Couatl. I'm not sure it's supposed to make a list like this. But damn that thing is scary.
With a flying speed of 90 ft !!! There is no escaping it. You fight, or you die.
And fighting is not easy. It's stats are good, because all celestials seem to have mad stats.
A CR 4, with 97HP and 19 AC is nothing to scoff at.
With damage immunities (!!!) to: psychic, bludgeoning, piercing and slashing. Not every player may be able to even harm the damn thing. It has a bunch of spells, most are hardly usefull in combat, but some can boost its survivability even more, including the shield spell!
Then the Couatl has some abilities to shut-down dangerous enemies. Preventing the 'dangerous players that can harm it, from actually fighting. Mainly: A poison bite, that it can use to quickly take down low CON-players, and make them fall unconscious.
And a constrict, action which it can use to grapple and restrain another target.
And in order to make it completely rediculous, it can shape-change into a humanoid or beast with equal or lower CR!
Ever seen a moon-druid transform into a beast for a bunch of extra free HP? Well, the Couatl can do that. Every single turn.
So pick your scarierst CR 4 beast/humanoid. And there are some tanky or scary CR4 beasts. The party will have to kill that in 1 turn, and have some 'leftover damage' in order to even harm it. If they cant kill it in 1 turn, they will just be fighting the beasts all day long, and not even get to the damn thing.
Our party had 2 spellcaster, and 1 guys with a magical weapon. The other dude had to focus on a supporting role, because he could not contribute to the fight. After fighting the beast form, The coatl quickly took down the warlock with poison (low CON). After that, the DM send the Coatl close to the 'players'. The ranger (who didn't have magic damage at first) was quickly restrained, and later killed.
The wizard tried to make some distance from the bites, but a reaction 'attack of opperturnity made him fall asleep. 3 down in in 2 combat rounds, without any serious damage done. The fighter was forced to do some 'support' actions for the first rounds, unable to damage the thing. Later picked up the warlocks magic sword to help out, We where not sure if he was able to even carry a hex-blade, but it didn't matter. He stayed alive for a few round, but got nowhere near 97 damage.
Our DM didn't even have to do the brutal 'infinite shapeshifts' but it still unwinnable for our party, and my party managed to die from it.