Thankyou for giving Charley some overdue recognition it must have a torturous but short decision to make to leave him behind but nothing Edgerly could do.
I've been following, off and on, the details of the battle that have filled in through archeology and scholarship. Especially notable and gratifying has been identification of individuals and narration their stories, both troopers and Indians. The picture, though it will always be somewhat uncertain, has gotten much more clear since the 1960s. Thank you for this video on Vincent Charlie's story and those who were left behind by our forces. They must be remembered, so their cases are never repeated.
@@franksnyder1038 You are certainly in a stunning part of the world. Did Hoover Dam, Death Valley in the 70's. Grand Canyon 90's....that really was too much to take in.
I'm an Is Native American and I wish I could been with my great grandfather And Rated Columbus New Mexico With him . Ponchovia got the credit He really had nothing to do with it. My grandfather took poncho via's men and rated the small town on the border He was pissed off At the Americans swore that they weren't gonna get involved in the revolution in Mexico .
I just visited the Battlefield this last Summer. Fascinating how much we now know, compared to what we were taught, so what we believed. Then, to hear the entire story of the battle, from the perspective of it's true history. 🤯
These are really well presented, informative vignettes. Unadorned facts that present the audience with the known history without prejudice. In short they are great. Cheers from the UK.
Custer severely underestimated the oppositions number even after being told by bloody knife...if he would have waited like he was told to..he might have won the day
Nobody thought they would stand and fight. The trick in Indian fighting was always catching them, not defeating them in a straight fight. I don't think Custer disbelieved the scouts so much as he didn't think it mattered. If you follow his decisions from the point of view of preventing an escape, they make more sense.
@@jeffbosworth8116 the Battle of Fetterman and the massacre of Major Elliot contingent at Washita had taught nothing. in general the Indians fought when they felt like it but they always did when it came to defending women, children and old people ... and Custer should have known that. moreover this time he did not take them by surprise as in the Washita and he found himself facing warriors instead of women and children ..... finally he had well seen that while women, children and old people ran away, the warriors faced hard Reno in the valley...... for what singular reason shouldn't they have had to fight his contingent? the truth is that at the Washita Custer was lucky enough to face mainly women and children while at the LBH he faced Lakota Cheyenne and Arapaho warriors ... he also divided his troops without knowing the strength and position of the enemy and terrain allowing the Indians to face them and beat them separately .... the end was obvious.
@@andreascala2663 Partly true, but Custer 'divided his command' in an effort to discover the location and numbers of the hostiles. By the time Custer ascertained what he was up against, he had already divided his command. Recall, the actual numbers of warriors were 3-4 times the estimated numbers prior to initiation of this campaign, nobody estimated they'd be facing 3000-5000 warriors. The defeat became a massacre because the Sioux and Cheyenne didn't take prisoners, they killed the wounded and those who were overrun, then mutilated their bodies.
@@pimpompoom93726 first of all to find the enemy he had the scouts (who had clearly told him both where the camp was and how many warriors they would face) but he did not know how to use them. moreover, the seventh fought not 3,000 / 5,000 warriors but 1,800 / 2,000 (by now almost all historians agree on this) including boys aged 14 to 17. the truth is that Custer did not know the exact strength of the enemy nor his position nor the terrain and despite this he divided the seventh into 4 groups allowing the Indians to face and beat them separately. It is true that the cavalry manual envisaged attacking the enemy from various sides but I wonder how a decent commander can divide his forces miles away between them BEFORE knowing the enemy's strength, his position and how to reach him. I am absolutely convinced that Custer was arrogant presumptuous and sure that his lucky star (Custer's famous fortune) would have protected him as in Washita but this time with 210 men he had to face 1,000 / 1,500 Indians ready to fight instead of women, children and old people and only Benteen's skill kept the rest of the regiment from disintegrating over the next few hours.
@@andreascala2663 You're tripping over your contradictions. First of all, you say Custer's Crow and Shoshone scouts 'clearly' told him of the enemy's location and numbers, then you state ' I wonder how a decent commander can divide his forces miles away between them BEFORE knowing the enemy's strength, his position and how to reach him.' The truth is, the indian scouts gave him a vague idea of where the camp was, but when Custer couldn't locate it with field glasses he divided his command to investigate and come up with better information-that was the correct decision to make under the circumstances. Initial estimates of potential enemy combatants was from 800-1500 and no more than that, that was the intelligence Custer had when making his decision to divide his forces. As for your comment 'by now almost all historians agree on this', that is simply not true. The numbers of warriors have been estimated to have been 3000-5000 with the high side estimate coming from Sioux/Cheyenne sources themselves! The fact of the matter is, historians disagree on warrior numbers, there is hardly consensus. Finally, your comment 'I am absolutely convinced that Custer was arrogant, presumptuous and sure his lucky star.......' shows that you have a clear bias against the man which renders your arguments tainted at best. Custer was an aggressive commander, that trait helped propel him to a GREAT cavalry victory at the Battle of Gettysburg during the Civil War and he'd has similar success during earlier engagements in the indian wars. Try checking your dislike for the man and bias against him at the door, then you'll be able to judge his actions with more credibility. Biased assessments are worthless and unworthy of educated discussion-nobody learns when arguing with tainted viewpoints. Accordingly, I'm muting you.
I remember reading 'Son of the Morning Star' by novelist Evan S. Connell years ago - an excellent book. He states Weir was psychologically destroyed by guilt by the events and not being able to render assistance to Custer and writing incoherent letters to Libby Custer later...
Thomas Weir was possibly in love with Libbie. He had already had an altercation with Armstrong over her. Drinking himself to death within six months after the battle he took the secrets of the battle to his grave though I believe it was the state of Custer’s corpse and his own failure to ‘stand up’ to Benteen that were haunting him. (PTSD.). It took his conscience over two hours before he started to ride to Custer’s help. He had the opportunity when first shown Cooke/Martini’s message to insist Benteen immediately ride to Custer’s aid. He did not do it. This must have haunted him. Custer’s corpse was more mutilated than stated. The Gilkinson paper of 78/9 states that Custer’s corpse showed bullet holes to the left temple and breast, arrows through the penis and sack, piercing of the ears, removal of one finger and deep gashes to both thighs extending from hip to knee. Out of courtesy to Libbie the extent of the mutilation was not told to her. Weir lied to Libbie over it. He couldn’t live with his failures..haunted by guilt. He found solace and death in a bottle. Sad😪👵🇦🇺🇺🇸
@@Minime163 Since publication of "Son of the Morning Star" there have been many more discoveries from the battlefield that have given a clearer picture of how the battle unfolded. Connell's book is more about the personalities and the era. It is very entertaining and since Connell doesn't try to make any assumptions about the battle beyond what was known at the time it makes a worthy addition and starting point for anyone who wants to dive deeper into the battle itself.
Really enjoy your Big Horn videos, you have such a way of retelling the stories of these soldiers and warriors. Really looking forward to the next accounts from that faithful day you share with us!
It is so interesting to hear the stories, and in some cases, see the pictures of these men. It makes them human beings and not just a character in a story.
Human it makes them human I'm sure right now the Russians are kind human My parents make sure I was born on this day June 25th They were Proud that we finally got to be able to kick Is his ass Is for killing women and children That's exactly what the Russians are trying to do Don't be confused everybody's doing it But it's different when you're doing it !
Your channel is the best kind of history - glad I discovered it. Thanks to you I have become interested in this segment of U.S. history. I'm waiting for Graham's "The Custer Myth" to arrive tomorrow. I remember the debacle of Koh Tang well, had been in the MC about 3 years at that point.
1st Lieutenant William Cooke pictured at 1:07 (top middle) had his face cut off, they literally scalped his long sideburns, from his hairline to his chin, as a trophy.
I remember reading that Edgerly's orderly was laughing or smiling as he was helping Edgerly onto his horse. When asked what he thought was so funny, as bullets were whizzing all around them, the orderly found it amusing that the Indians were such poor shots. I have always sympathized with both Vincent Charly and Lt. Edgerly. It was Charley's bad luck to get such a debilitating injury during a retreat, and Edgerly and his orderly wouldn't have made it out had they tried to somehow get a crippled Charly onto a horse, obviously not Edgerly's seeing the difficulty he had. I am sure he felt guilty but wasn't about to dismount and trust that animal to let him remount before being surrounded by a lot of very angry Sioux. It is typical of a good officer like Edgerly to feel remorse over his inability to save a wounded man. I am glad his remains were positively identified.
I can't recall the officers name, but there was a similar incident at Isandlwana, where the officer had to leave a man behind who was begging for help with the Zulu almost upon them. He was haunted by it for the rest of his life.
Good video as usual. Weir should never left Reno/Benteen or return at once he saw Custer’s detachment was lost. I believe all that save the Reno/Benteen detachments was the fact they were entrenched.
Thank you! I read an account by John Stands in Timber that says the main difference between the Custer field and the Reno-Benteen site was the presence of "Suicide Boys." According to Stands in Timber, these young warriors charged through the army lines on the Custer side, which initiated the collapse of the entire unit. This type of charge obviously did not happen on the Reno-Benteen side, although warriors were probably getting close on the morning of the 26th.
That and the fact the pack train was with them so unlike Custer's battalion they had plenty of ammunition and other supplies to withstand the hostiles.
@@sandycarlak3027 Custer committed suicide by not waiting on general terry There is no doubt in my opinion.. I keep thinking about it and I wonder how many ghosts are running around that battle field still fighting to the death
@@TheStoryOutWest this battle has been on my mind for a very long time Custer was greedy and he was arrogant That proved to be a recipe for disaster He said the seventh could whip anything put in front of them, I wonder if the ghosts of the seventh still roam the battle field I hear tell of a story where a visitor Suddenly disappeared there.. And other people including park staff was wondering where he went...now get this... He finally returned to the group and was visibly shaken badly and crying 😭 When everyone asked him what had happened, he replied.." I seen everything" "That happened"....he said he was actually transported back in time to the battle and witnessed every single thing that happened, and the way he described it....well, it left no doubt that he was telling the truth..he had described things so vividly and correctly It was astonishing to everyone there.. including native American tour guides and rangers..
There is so much to cover about the Battle of the Little Bighorn, and you are doing it so well. I appreciate how you present the history. Do you plan on presenting other battles in other states in the future?
Absolutely. I work a full-time job and time is short, but I have a list of places and topics I want to make videos on. I’m open to requests and recommendations. Thank you for the compliment, glad you’re digging the channel!
@@TheStoryOutWest I will have some suggestions in SE AZ in the future, if they might be on your list. I won't mess with your process, because your presentation is impeccable. I know my way around some places and am willing to show you places when and if you are interested. Having a full time job and dealing with just the history of the Bighorn Battle, you have your hands full. MY hat is off to YOU, sir! Cheers!
Peaceful soldier he was part of an army who tried to attack men women and children nothing Peaceful about that I hope he rots in hell with the rest of the 7th cavalry
It is smore likely that Capt. Weir arrived at the high point just as C Co charged toward Greasy Grass ridge and witnessed the whole battle. Benteen came to the point about a half-hour later and planted a flag on the summit. Sitting Bull said he saw the flag before Custer was annihilated and that some warriors began to attack the point. Several soldiers said they heard a bugle call from Custer's position. What do you suppose was ordered by that call? Abandonment was certainly present at Weir point.
Can't imagine the sheer terror V.Charley wounded, must have felt being abandoned by Edgerly as those Savages approached. I don't condemn or condone Edgerly, difficult choice to make knowing a slow& brutally painful death was certain. Similar fate for Sgt.MilesT.O'Hara newly promoted ,wounded on Reno's skirmish line village attack. Left behind despite pleas's fir help
A large amount of artifacts were found after a large fire sweep the battle field. So the battle field must had more brush and concealment but nothing is ever said but I always assumed it was covered in low buffalo grass like it is shown on pictures. Brush would have gave the indians a great advantage with their close range weapons. Another thing was the cavalry had a max height of 5'10" and max weight of 145#. They looked more like jockeys.
During World War II, the averages of male inductees into the U.S. Army was found to be 5'8" tall and 144lb. in weight. Hardly any difference... Bell Wileys' studies of Civil War soldiers, showed an average height of 5'8" & 143lb. The average height and weight for a man in the United States today is 5' 9.3" inches and 195.5lb. and for a woman, 5'3.8" height and 166.2lb. Most studies conclude that North Americans were the "tallest average" until the 20th century. Countries with today's tallest average males(latest data I could find): 1. Bosnia & Herzegovina - 6' 0.5" (183.9 cm). 2. The Netherlands - 6'0.5" (183.8 cm). 3. Montenegro - 6'0" (183.2 cm). 4. Denmark - 6' 0" (182.6 cm). 5. Norway - 5'11.75" (182.4 cm). 6. Serbia - 5'11.5" (182.0cm). 7. Iceland - 5' 11.5" (182.0 cm). 8. Germany - 5'11.25" (181.0 cm). 9. Croatia - 5' 11" (180.5 cm). 10. The Czech Republic - 5'11" (180.3 cm) Human Height by Max Riser, Cameron Appel & Hannah Ritchie This article was first published in 2013, and updated in May 2019. This study concludes: "The majority of the variation in height within a population is due to genetic variation, but environmental variation due to socioeconomic factors also has an impact...Is height determined by genetics or environment? The short answer is that it depends on the countries you are comparing. Differences in average heights could be due to different genes, different environments, or - more likely - some combination of both." *Max Roser, Cameron Appel and Hannah Ritchie (2013) - "Human Height". Published online at OurWorldInData.org. Retrieved from: 'ourworldindata.org/human-height' [Online Resource]
This story links with another story. The Sioux/Lakota/Cheyenne reported seeing Custer's men on last stand hill looking in the direction of Weir Point. The soldiers at Weir Point planted a guidon on the hill - possibly what was found in Charley's throat. That guidon likely is what caught the attention of the Sioux/Lakota/Cheyenne who Weir and Benteen saw from Weir Point and caused them to attack. I strongly suspect the last of Custer's men saw that same guidon which is why they were looking in that direction. What Weir and Benteen saw was the very end of the battle on Last Stand Hill although at the time they didn't know all the details. Regarding Charley unfortunately the wound he sustained was almost certainly fatal given the remote location and seriousness of the wound. Still it's odd that Edgerly didn't put Charley across his saddle and take him to the Reno location.
Whether anyone likes to accept it or not, Custer splitting his army, mortally weakened it, and thus the massacre. The saying, "united we stand , but divided we fall ", is exactly what happened to Custer and his men. Another factor was the total lack of knowing where the enemy was, and how large it was! The rest is just tragic history!
Everyone loves to second guess Custer, Reno and Benteen. I think the Indians deserve a lot of criticism as well, How could they have left their village so vulnerable to attack that the 7th was able to just come right up to it in broad daylight? How did they not have scouts out that should have known about Custer when he was still coming up the Rosebud? They were well aware that there were soldiers up on the Yellowstone when Gibbon was there weeks earlier because they tried to run off his horses. Even worse it could have been Crook's army again coming from the area where the Battle of the Rosebud was fought and they were well aware Crook had equal numbers to them. If Crook and Custer had got there at the same time the hostiles would have been outnumbered. The Sioux and Cheyenne were extremely lucky they didn't pay a high price for their lack of preparedness that day.
My dad was left behind. And made it out! I was abandoned and embarrassed the men who left me when I walked out. My father nor I were bitter about these incidents. It's human nature to want to get away.
Good point about the number of immigrants from Europe. If I am not mistaken, not only were the native American soldiers better armed then the 7th, but they were also physically larger as well. At that time their diet had been better than the immigrants and they had an average height greater than the seventh soldiers.
Most likely the Indians who found V.Charley RIP 🙏 were incensed...maybe lost relatives & by mutilating an enemy he would be hampered in the afterlife & could not further harm them in the Spirit World@
You could probably google around for a while and find what you're looking for. You could also get a copy of Custer in '76 by Kenneth Hammer. In the back of the book are appendices with the soldiers assigned to each company, a list of Indian scouts, and a whole bunch of other info.
Frederic Wagner III is a Vietnam vet who has studied this battle for decades. He has four books published by McFarland Press, and has won awards for his work, Custer's Strategy of Defeat, which uses the terrain, archaeological finds, to construct a definitive timeline. It's pretty technical, requires a good understanding of the battle. He also published an analysis of Reno's valley fight, and his most recent is a day-by-day reconstruction of the 1876 campaign (I like this one a lot). His book Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn is probably the most complete listing of everyone involved on both sides, with short bios. Richard Hardorff's The Custer Battle Casualties, Volume I and II focuses on soldiers lost, and is very interesting. Poor Charley died hard. I think of him often.
There's a book called Participants of the Battle of the Little Bighorn (or something to that effect), it gives the names of participants on each side. One of the Native American's name was Asshole. I always wondered how he came by the moniker.
What's interesting about Weir's movement is it proves Benteen could have carried out his orders. Custer's attack at the river was a feint to relieve the pressure on Reno/Benteen, 2/3s of his men. Custer developed a defensive position on Last Stand Hill so Benteen could attack the Indians from behind. The classic Hammer and anvil. That's why Benteen had to come quick. The only officer that was rocking the boat after the LBH was Weir, and he came up dead by the following December.
@@213thAIB Benteen was with Custer at the Washita and knew exactly what Custer's tactics would be. Elliot was lost because he disobeyed orders by chasing fleeing Indians, getting himself cutoff and wiped out. Reno/Benteen was 2/3 of Custer's command. Benteen had his written orders to come quick and bring packs. Custer's attack at the river was a feint to relieve pressure on Reno/Benteen, which is exactly what happened. Captain's Weir's movement to Weir's Pointe proves Benteen could have carried out his orders. The elephant in the room is Grant and all his interference with Custer. Think Grant's interference with Burnside at the Crater.
I had family who has there, I'm a Dakota-Sioux descendant. That's absolutely wrong what you wrote, Reno was to attack the village and what Custer seen up on the bluffs was the Reno retreat. Custer then says some like "come on boys, we'll have them whipped by noon" he rode to the Ford crossing where he was shot by a warrior named White Bull. Under the left side breast area, what happened next was a route and slaughter. If you have ever actually been there and seen everything you will know it's not that simple as you described it. Benteen had no idea what was even going on, Benteen could only see the ridge fight from where he was. And from Weir point only the Keogh sector and ridge fight can be seen. Custer was dying by the time he got to last stand hill, his own men had shot him in the temple. He was found with his wound still bleeding from the temple. He was still alive when shot but that shot did him in. The shot from the Ford crossing would have collapsed his lung. It was a short and very violent fight on last stand hill.
Yes Benteen totally had enough time to go relieve the rest of Custers men, before they all got murdered. Plus Reno and Benteen were already pinned down by chief Gall and his men by then. They definitely had enough resources and time before the pack train came. And before being pinned down, Custer was likely already dead before the fight on last stand hill happened. And the final fighting was in the fields going towards deep ravine. This fight with Custer lasted only 30 mins to 45 mins. A group of suicide warriors, around 24 of them broke the last stand hill defense. That started the flight of the men towards deep ravine. Crazy Horse attacked the Keogh sector from deep ravine. He had to have seen Capt Yates when Capt Yates was sent to find the end of the village. The Ford crossing Custer was shot at was the middle of the village. Deep ravine was at the end of the village. And the suicide warriors had followed Capt Yates back to last stand hill. It was a very hard fight, our losses had to have been 110 dead and 150 wounded.
@@JackDiamond21 The last stand myth came straight from Indians because there were no Custer survivors, only a horse and he wasn't related to Mr Edd. Yep we're supposed rely on your folklore history like Elizabeth Pocahontas Warren? It wasn't an attack at the river, it was a planned feint. We know this because Custer ordered Benteen, twice to come quick. The feint was to relieve pressure on Reno/Benteen. Custer then led the Indians to last stand hill making himself inviting target so the Indians would concentrate on him. This is exactly what happened. This gave Benteen the opportunity to attack the Indians from behind and while they were changing direction. Benteen disobeyed his orders. Benteen was at the Washita with Custer and a seasoned cavalry officer. He knew exactly what was going on. Nobody knows, reliably, what happened at last stand hill. It doesn't matter (how) Custer died but it does matter (why) he died. It wasn't a retreat, it was a route. Reno lost his nerve and ran, inviting the Indians to pursue him rather than escaping. Living in a dream world is no way to go through life Grasshopper.
@@31terikennedy you just said everything I said only in your "terms" to make you look relevant. We are finally talking about what happened and we get called liars. You literally just said the same exact thing I had said 🤣 I'm not some fake ass whitey claiming this and that, I am Dakota-Sioux and Blackfoot, that's why I said I was a descendant. Your only going off of what you wanted to happen when in reality that's not what happened. I have actually been there and it's very hard to see. The last stand myth was created by your people not us. We called it the Battle of Greasy Grass, you white people called it Battle of the Little Bighorn, and Custer's Last Stand. That's not a dream to us you big turd, it's reality sorry that I have direct blood involved in this legendary battle and your lame white man ass is just some nobody wishing he was connected.
If Reno had stayed in the woods and Benteen Had made a large move toward greasy grass..indians would not been able to bring all their might Just against Custer A few historians and history buffs lean towards Custer being mortally wounded and his favorite scout being scalped while charging the village across lilbig river..scouts Custer dismissed and indians who fired on river crossing charge..why did Custer s remains have a close pistol shot to temple?? He wasnt able to sucide Because of terminal wound and semi comatose state TomCuster mutilated almost beyond id...George was recognizable..Tom commanded..George was outa the fight
Brave" And in a tight spot They went to annihilate women and children to kill the Native American population They got caught Is thinking that they had the upper hand They got what they deserved Anybody who tries to annihilate People She get the same including the Russians Who think the same way Either do it our way or it will annihilate you ! That is no way to live God-bless and help the Ukrainian people
A common problem in rhe US Army rescuing fallen members out of stupid missions and risking the life of dozens more. Leads to more casualties and repeated to more and more and more.
A sign of a good officer and good man-forever bothered that he couldn't help a wounded brother-in-arms.
Thankyou for giving Charley some overdue recognition it must have a torturous but short decision to make to leave him behind but nothing Edgerly could do.
Thanx much for the video. I'm so glad that Vincent Charley's remains were finally identified.
'Hide yourself as best you can' in an open range.. guy had no chance
I've been following, off and on, the details of the battle that have filled in through archeology and scholarship. Especially notable and gratifying has been identification of individuals and narration their stories, both troopers and Indians. The picture, though it will always be somewhat uncertain, has gotten much more clear since the 1960s.
Thank you for this video on Vincent Charlie's story and those who were left behind by our forces. They must be remembered, so their cases are never repeated.
I love the old west.
Hi from the U.K.
Join the club Keith I'm from Colorado.
@@franksnyder1038 You are certainly in a stunning part of the world.
Did Hoover Dam, Death Valley in the 70's. Grand Canyon 90's....that really was too much to take in.
@@keithwinters3031 It is still spectacular if you want and can come back.
I'm an Is Native American and I wish I could been with my great grandfather And Rated Columbus New Mexico With him .
Ponchovia got the credit He really had nothing to do with it.
My grandfather took poncho via's men and rated the small town on the border
He was pissed off At the Americans swore that they weren't gonna get involved in the revolution in Mexico .
Two Men’s Stories, Artfully Told. Thank You.
Vincent Charley was born 20milrs from where my Swiss family originate. It’s a small world
I just visited the Battlefield this last Summer. Fascinating how much we now know, compared to what we were taught, so what we believed.
Then, to hear the entire story of the battle, from the perspective of it's true history. 🤯
You, sir, make high quality content.
Much appreciated.
These are really well presented, informative vignettes. Unadorned facts that present the audience with the known history without prejudice. In short they are great. Cheers from the UK.
Custer severely underestimated the oppositions number even after being told by bloody knife...if he would have waited like he was told to..he might have won the day
Nobody thought they would stand and fight. The trick in Indian fighting was always catching them, not defeating them in a straight fight. I don't think Custer disbelieved the scouts so much as he didn't think it mattered. If you follow his decisions from the point of view of preventing an escape, they make more sense.
@@jeffbosworth8116 the Battle of Fetterman and the massacre of Major Elliot contingent at Washita had taught nothing. in general the Indians fought when they felt like it but they always did when it came to defending women, children and old people ... and Custer should have known that. moreover this time he did not take them by surprise as in the Washita and he found himself facing warriors instead of women and children ..... finally he had well seen that while women, children and old people ran away, the warriors faced hard Reno in the valley...... for what singular reason shouldn't they have had to fight his contingent? the truth is that at the Washita Custer was lucky enough to face mainly women and children while at the LBH he faced Lakota Cheyenne and Arapaho warriors ... he also divided his troops without knowing the strength and position of the enemy and terrain allowing the Indians to face them and beat them separately .... the end was obvious.
@@andreascala2663 Partly true, but Custer 'divided his command' in an effort to discover the location and numbers of the hostiles. By the time Custer ascertained what he was up against, he had already divided his command. Recall, the actual numbers of warriors were 3-4 times the estimated numbers prior to initiation of this campaign, nobody estimated they'd be facing 3000-5000 warriors. The defeat became a massacre because the Sioux and Cheyenne didn't take prisoners, they killed the wounded and those who were overrun, then mutilated their bodies.
@@pimpompoom93726 first of all to find the enemy he had the scouts (who had clearly told him both where the camp was and how many warriors they would face) but he did not know how to use them. moreover, the seventh fought not 3,000 / 5,000 warriors but 1,800 / 2,000 (by now almost all historians agree on this) including boys aged 14 to 17. the truth is that Custer did not know the exact strength of the enemy nor his position nor the terrain and despite this he divided the seventh into 4 groups allowing the Indians to face and beat them separately. It is true that the cavalry manual envisaged attacking the enemy from various sides but I wonder how a decent commander can divide his forces miles away between them BEFORE knowing the enemy's strength, his position and how to reach him. I am absolutely convinced that Custer was arrogant presumptuous and sure that his lucky star (Custer's famous fortune) would have protected him as in Washita but this time with 210 men he had to face 1,000 / 1,500 Indians ready to fight instead of women, children and old people and only Benteen's skill kept the rest of the regiment from disintegrating over the next few hours.
@@andreascala2663 You're tripping over your contradictions. First of all, you say Custer's Crow and Shoshone scouts 'clearly' told him of the enemy's location and numbers, then you state ' I wonder how a decent commander can divide his forces miles away between them BEFORE knowing the enemy's strength, his position and how to reach him.' The truth is, the indian scouts gave him a vague idea of where the camp was, but when Custer couldn't locate it with field glasses he divided his command to investigate and come up with better information-that was the correct decision to make under the circumstances. Initial estimates of potential enemy combatants was from 800-1500 and no more than that, that was the intelligence Custer had when making his decision to divide his forces. As for your comment 'by now almost all historians agree on this', that is simply not true. The numbers of warriors have been estimated to have been 3000-5000 with the high side estimate coming from Sioux/Cheyenne sources themselves! The fact of the matter is, historians disagree on warrior numbers, there is hardly consensus. Finally, your comment 'I am absolutely convinced that Custer was arrogant, presumptuous and sure his lucky star.......' shows that you have a clear bias against the man which renders your arguments tainted at best. Custer was an aggressive commander, that trait helped propel him to a GREAT cavalry victory at the Battle of Gettysburg during the Civil War and he'd has similar success during earlier engagements in the indian wars. Try checking your dislike for the man and bias against him at the door, then you'll be able to judge his actions with more credibility. Biased assessments are worthless and unworthy of educated discussion-nobody learns when arguing with tainted viewpoints. Accordingly, I'm muting you.
I remember reading 'Son of the Morning Star' by novelist Evan S. Connell years ago - an excellent book. He states Weir was psychologically destroyed by guilt by the events and not being able to render assistance to Custer and writing incoherent letters to Libby Custer later...
Thomas Weir was possibly in love with Libbie. He had already had an altercation with Armstrong over her.
Drinking himself to death within six months after the battle he took the secrets of the battle to his grave though I believe it was the state of Custer’s corpse and his own failure to ‘stand up’ to Benteen that were haunting him. (PTSD.).
It took his conscience over two hours before he started to ride to Custer’s help.
He had the opportunity when first shown Cooke/Martini’s message to insist Benteen immediately ride to Custer’s aid.
He did not do it. This must have haunted him.
Custer’s corpse was more mutilated than stated. The Gilkinson paper of 78/9 states that Custer’s corpse showed bullet holes to the left temple and breast, arrows through the penis and sack, piercing of the ears, removal of one finger and deep gashes to both thighs extending from hip to knee.
Out of courtesy to Libbie the extent of the mutilation was not told to her.
Weir lied to Libbie over it.
He couldn’t live with his failures..haunted by guilt.
He found solace and death in a bottle.
Sad😪👵🇦🇺🇺🇸
I read it to .good book
Excellent book.
I think I'll look for it it sounds good.
@@Minime163 Since publication of "Son of the Morning Star" there have been many more discoveries from the battlefield that have given a clearer picture of how the battle unfolded. Connell's book is more about the personalities and the era. It is very entertaining and since Connell doesn't try to make any assumptions about the battle beyond what was known at the time it makes a worthy addition and starting point for anyone who wants to dive deeper into the battle itself.
Really enjoy your Big Horn videos, you have such a way of retelling the stories of these soldiers and warriors. Really looking forward to the next accounts from that faithful day you share with us!
Your content is first rate, sir! Keep up the fine work!
Good video, it adds the human dimension to some of the names in the battle.
Funny when I was first looking at this picture in the earlier footage I was wondering who all survived 6:58. Another awesome video!
It is so interesting to hear the stories, and in some cases, see the pictures of these men. It makes them human beings and not just a character in a story.
Human it makes them human
I'm sure right now the Russians are kind human
My parents make sure I was born on this day June 25th They were Proud that we finally got to be able to kick Is his ass Is for killing women and children That's exactly what the Russians are trying to do Don't be confused everybody's doing it But it's different when you're doing it !
I'm going out to the Big horn in July I will bring this man flowers.
Fascinating story, well told and presented. Thank you.
No single soldier can see the entire battlefield.
the most researched battlefield in history..
still more questions than answers..
Bravery wasn't enough that day.
Your channel is the best kind of history - glad I discovered it. Thanks to you I have become interested in this segment of U.S. history. I'm waiting for Graham's "The Custer Myth" to arrive tomorrow. I remember the debacle of Koh Tang well, had been in the MC about 3 years at that point.
That book is a classic. I remember checking it out from the local library constantly when I was a kid. Hope you enjoy it!
I love this channel. I’m from western Canada originally and it strikes my imagination thinking about what all went on out there.
I enjoyed this story very much. Your research and narrative were excellent.
Very well done. Thank you! Regards from Canada
1st Lieutenant William Cooke pictured at 1:07 (top middle) had his face cut off, they literally scalped his long sideburns, from his hairline to his chin, as a trophy.
I remember reading that Edgerly's orderly was laughing or smiling as he was helping Edgerly onto his horse. When asked what he thought was so funny, as bullets were whizzing all around them, the orderly found it amusing that the Indians were such poor shots. I have always sympathized with both Vincent Charly and Lt. Edgerly. It was Charley's bad luck to get such a debilitating injury during a retreat, and Edgerly and his orderly wouldn't have made it out had they tried to somehow get a crippled Charly onto a horse, obviously not Edgerly's seeing the difficulty he had. I am sure he felt guilty but wasn't about to dismount and trust that animal to let him remount before being surrounded by a lot of very angry Sioux. It is typical of a good officer like Edgerly to feel remorse over his inability to save a wounded man. I am glad his remains were positively identified.
I can't recall the officers name, but there was a similar incident at Isandlwana, where the officer had to leave a man behind who was begging for help with the Zulu almost upon them.
He was haunted by it for the rest of his life.
Great story.
Fantastic series. Great channel!
This battle was such a tragedy for everyone involved
Awesome content, would love to see a long in depth breakdown ot the entire battle by you
Truly great story.
Good video as usual. Weir should never left Reno/Benteen or return at once he saw Custer’s detachment was lost. I believe all that save the Reno/Benteen detachments was the fact they were entrenched.
Thank you! I read an account by John Stands in Timber that says the main difference between the Custer field and the Reno-Benteen site was the presence of "Suicide Boys." According to Stands in Timber, these young warriors charged through the army lines on the Custer side, which initiated the collapse of the entire unit. This type of charge obviously did not happen on the Reno-Benteen side, although warriors were probably getting close on the morning of the 26th.
That and the fact the pack train was with them so unlike Custer's battalion they had plenty of ammunition and other supplies to withstand the hostiles.
@@sandycarlak3027 Custer committed suicide by not waiting on general terry
There is no doubt in my opinion..
I keep thinking about it and I wonder how many ghosts are running around that battle field still fighting to the death
@@TheStoryOutWest this battle has been on my mind for a very long time
Custer was greedy and he was arrogant
That proved to be a recipe for disaster
He said the seventh could whip anything put in front of them, I wonder if the ghosts of the seventh still roam the battle field
I hear tell of a story where a visitor
Suddenly disappeared there..
And other people including park staff was wondering where he went...now get this...
He finally returned to the group and was visibly shaken badly and crying 😭
When everyone asked him what had happened, he replied.." I seen everything"
"That happened"....he said he was actually transported back in time to the battle and witnessed every single thing that happened, and the way he described it....well, it left no doubt that he was telling the truth..he had described things so vividly and correctly
It was astonishing to everyone there.. including native American tour guides and rangers..
@@TheStoryOutWest Custer also had his troops spread out, look at the markers.Custeer was defeated in detail. Reno/Benteen had their forces together.
You'll never leave someone behind until everyone starts dying and you have to. That's why everyonr carries dogtags.
Fantastic story!
There is so much to cover about the Battle of the Little Bighorn, and you are doing it so well. I appreciate how you present the history. Do you plan on presenting other battles in other states in the future?
Absolutely. I work a full-time job and time is short, but I have a list of places and topics I want to make videos on. I’m open to requests and recommendations. Thank you for the compliment, glad you’re digging the channel!
@@TheStoryOutWest I will have some suggestions in SE AZ in the future, if they might be on your list. I won't mess with your process, because your presentation is impeccable. I know my way around some places and am willing to show you places when and if you are interested. Having a full time job and dealing with just the history of the Bighorn Battle, you have your hands full. MY hat is off to YOU, sir! Cheers!
Rest Peacefully Soldier 🇺🇸
Peaceful soldier he was part of an army who tried to attack men women and children nothing Peaceful about that I hope he rots in hell with the rest of the 7th cavalry
Outstanding content sir.
It is smore likely that Capt. Weir arrived at the high point just as C Co charged toward Greasy Grass ridge and witnessed the whole battle. Benteen came to the point about a half-hour later and planted a flag on the summit. Sitting Bull said he saw the flag before Custer was annihilated and that some warriors began to attack the point. Several soldiers said they heard a bugle call from Custer's position. What do you suppose was ordered by that call? Abandonment was certainly present at Weir point.
Several warriors had their own bugles taken from the rosebud battle.
Possibly, but Two Moons said that it was a 7th bugler. Sitting Bull related stories among natives of a cavalry bugler. ..@@JackDiamond21
Can't imagine the sheer terror V.Charley wounded, must have felt being abandoned by Edgerly as those Savages approached. I don't condemn or condone Edgerly, difficult
choice to make knowing a slow& brutally painful death was certain.
Similar fate for Sgt.MilesT.O'Hara newly promoted ,wounded on Reno's
skirmish line village attack. Left behind despite pleas's fir help
He was the First Cavalyman to die @ the LBH@
Savages they were protecting their homes and families so who were the Savages the us army and government who decided to attack them
A large amount of artifacts were found after a large fire sweep the battle field. So the battle field must had more brush and concealment but nothing is ever said but I always assumed it was covered in low buffalo grass like it is shown on pictures. Brush would have gave the indians a great advantage with their close range weapons. Another thing was the cavalry had a max height of 5'10" and max weight of 145#. They looked more like jockeys.
People were shorter in 19th century, and thinner too. Those height and weight limits prob covered most of the adult male population.
During World War II, the averages of male inductees into the U.S. Army was found to be 5'8" tall and 144lb. in weight.
Hardly any difference...
Bell Wileys' studies of Civil War soldiers, showed an average height of 5'8" & 143lb.
The average height and weight for a man in the United States today is 5' 9.3" inches and 195.5lb. and for a woman, 5'3.8" height and 166.2lb.
Most studies conclude that North Americans were the "tallest average" until the 20th century.
Countries with today's tallest average males(latest data I could find):
1. Bosnia & Herzegovina - 6' 0.5" (183.9 cm).
2. The Netherlands - 6'0.5" (183.8 cm).
3. Montenegro - 6'0" (183.2 cm).
4. Denmark - 6' 0" (182.6 cm).
5. Norway - 5'11.75" (182.4 cm).
6. Serbia - 5'11.5" (182.0cm).
7. Iceland - 5' 11.5" (182.0 cm).
8. Germany - 5'11.25" (181.0 cm).
9. Croatia - 5' 11" (180.5 cm).
10. The Czech Republic - 5'11" (180.3 cm)
Human Height
by Max Riser, Cameron Appel & Hannah Ritchie
This article was first published in 2013, and updated in May 2019.
This study concludes:
"The majority of the variation in height within a population is due to genetic variation, but environmental variation due to socioeconomic factors also has an impact...Is height determined by genetics or environment? The short answer is that it depends on the countries you are comparing. Differences in average heights could be due to different genes, different environments, or - more likely - some combination of both."
*Max Roser, Cameron Appel and Hannah Ritchie (2013) - "Human Height". Published online at OurWorldInData.org. Retrieved from: 'ourworldindata.org/human-height' [Online Resource]
This story links with another story. The Sioux/Lakota/Cheyenne reported seeing Custer's men on last stand hill looking in the direction of Weir Point. The soldiers at Weir Point planted a guidon on the hill - possibly what was found in Charley's throat. That guidon likely is what caught the attention of the Sioux/Lakota/Cheyenne who Weir and Benteen saw from Weir Point and caused them to attack. I strongly suspect the last of Custer's men saw that same guidon which is why they were looking in that direction. What Weir and Benteen saw was the very end of the battle on Last Stand Hill although at the time they didn't know all the details.
Regarding Charley unfortunately the wound he sustained was almost certainly fatal given the remote location and seriousness of the wound. Still it's odd that Edgerly didn't put Charley across his saddle and take him to the Reno location.
Disappointed you didn't show the John Goodman clip from Raising Arizona. ;P
Thanks for the video. It's always cool to hear about Winfield Edgerly because he's an relative of mine. BTW it's pronounced edge-er-lee
Thanks for the info!
I'm a new subscriber, thanks.
Whether anyone likes to accept it or not, Custer splitting his army, mortally weakened it, and thus the massacre. The saying, "united we stand , but divided we fall ", is exactly what happened to Custer and his men. Another factor was the total lack of knowing where the enemy was, and how large it was! The rest is just tragic history!
Everyone loves to second guess Custer, Reno and Benteen. I think the Indians deserve a lot of criticism as well, How could they have left their village so vulnerable to attack that the 7th was able to just come right up to it in broad daylight? How did they not have scouts out that should have known about Custer when he was still coming up the Rosebud? They were well aware that there were soldiers up on the Yellowstone when Gibbon was there weeks earlier because they tried to run off his horses. Even worse it could have been Crook's army again coming from the area where the Battle of the Rosebud was fought and they were well aware Crook had equal numbers to them. If Crook and Custer had got there at the same time the hostiles would have been outnumbered. The Sioux and Cheyenne were extremely lucky they didn't pay a high price for their lack of preparedness that day.
I said the exact same thing standing on that very battleground. 🤯
My dad was left behind. And made it out! I was abandoned and embarrassed the men who left me when I walked out. My father nor I were bitter about these incidents. It's human nature to want to get away.
“Never leave someone behind?! Hold my beer cornpop!”
- Brandon
MAGA idiot⬆️
Lmfaooooo yes! 😂😂😂
That’s funny.
Good point about the number of immigrants from Europe. If I am not mistaken, not only were the native American soldiers better armed then the 7th, but they were also physically larger as well. At that time their diet had been better than the immigrants and they had an average height greater than the seventh soldiers.
Unfortunately people are left behind 💩 happens. This is how POW/MIA soldiers happen and KIA unfortunately that is the reality sometimes of the three.
100% correct
True, but "shit happens" should not be our standard.
10,000.00 Indians were at the battle. The Indians did allow anyone to survive.
🙏
The Indians putting the stick down Vincent Charley's throat , was it for calling out for help.... i think so !
Just one relatively small battle in the history of humanity. Crazy to think that our history as a species is basically efforts to kill each other.
The US has only enjoyed 16 years of peace in its 242-year history, making the country “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,
👍👍👍
Why did they put a stick in his mouth?
I know, it's so pointlessly cruel! Vile behaviour, no honour at all. Poor kid.
Most likely the Indians who found V.Charley RIP 🙏 were incensed...maybe lost relatives & by mutilating an enemy he would be hampered in the afterlife & could not further harm them in the Spirit World@
How would one find out the names of all the Soldiers that were there at the Little Bighorn Battle?
You could probably google around for a while and find what you're looking for. You could also get a copy of Custer in '76 by Kenneth Hammer. In the back of the book are appendices with the soldiers assigned to each company, a list of Indian scouts, and a whole bunch of other info.
@@TheStoryOutWest Thank you.
Frederic Wagner III is a Vietnam vet who has studied this battle for decades. He has four books published by McFarland Press, and has won awards for his work, Custer's Strategy of Defeat, which uses the terrain, archaeological finds, to construct a definitive timeline. It's pretty technical, requires a good understanding of the battle. He also published an analysis of Reno's valley fight, and his most recent is a day-by-day reconstruction of the 1876 campaign (I like this one a lot). His book Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn is probably the most complete listing of everyone involved on both sides, with short bios.
Richard Hardorff's The Custer Battle Casualties, Volume I and II focuses on soldiers lost, and is very interesting. Poor Charley died hard. I think of him often.
There's a book called Participants of the Battle of the Little Bighorn (or something to that effect), it gives the names of participants on each side. One of the Native American's name was Asshole. I always wondered how he came by the moniker.
@@mr.aldini6801 Thank you.
Excuse me, but US Cavalry units are called TROOPS, not companies.
They were called companies in this time period. Goes all the way back to the pre-Civil War dragoon and mounted rifle companies.
Bro were you in 25th? That looks like kta or JRTC!
Commovente😢
You could just do content about LBH and never run out of stories.
25th ID!
Tropic Lightning!
What's interesting about Weir's movement is it proves Benteen could have carried out his orders. Custer's attack at the river was a feint to relieve the pressure on Reno/Benteen, 2/3s of his men. Custer developed a defensive position on Last Stand Hill so Benteen could attack the Indians from behind. The classic Hammer and anvil. That's why Benteen had to come quick. The only officer that was rocking the boat after the LBH was Weir, and he came up dead by the following December.
@@213thAIB Benteen was with Custer at the Washita and knew exactly what Custer's tactics would be. Elliot was lost because he disobeyed orders by chasing fleeing Indians, getting himself cutoff and wiped out. Reno/Benteen was 2/3 of Custer's command. Benteen had his written orders to come quick and bring packs. Custer's attack at the river was a feint to relieve pressure on Reno/Benteen, which is exactly what happened. Captain's Weir's movement to Weir's Pointe proves Benteen could have carried out his orders. The elephant in the room is Grant and all his interference with Custer. Think Grant's interference with Burnside at the Crater.
I had family who has there, I'm a Dakota-Sioux descendant. That's absolutely wrong what you wrote, Reno was to attack the village and what Custer seen up on the bluffs was the Reno retreat. Custer then says some like "come on boys, we'll have them whipped by noon" he rode to the Ford crossing where he was shot by a warrior named White Bull. Under the left side breast area, what happened next was a route and slaughter. If you have ever actually been there and seen everything you will know it's not that simple as you described it. Benteen had no idea what was even going on, Benteen could only see the ridge fight from where he was. And from Weir point only the Keogh sector and ridge fight can be seen. Custer was dying by the time he got to last stand hill, his own men had shot him in the temple. He was found with his wound still bleeding from the temple. He was still alive when shot but that shot did him in. The shot from the Ford crossing would have collapsed his lung. It was a short and very violent fight on last stand hill.
Yes Benteen totally had enough time to go relieve the rest of Custers men, before they all got murdered. Plus Reno and Benteen were already pinned down by chief Gall and his men by then. They definitely had enough resources and time before the pack train came. And before being pinned down, Custer was likely already dead before the fight on last stand hill happened. And the final fighting was in the fields going towards deep ravine. This fight with Custer lasted only 30 mins to 45 mins. A group of suicide warriors, around 24 of them broke the last stand hill defense. That started the flight of the men towards deep ravine. Crazy Horse attacked the Keogh sector from deep ravine. He had to have seen Capt Yates when Capt Yates was sent to find the end of the village. The Ford crossing Custer was shot at was the middle of the village. Deep ravine was at the end of the village. And the suicide warriors had followed Capt Yates back to last stand hill. It was a very hard fight, our losses had to have been 110 dead and 150 wounded.
@@JackDiamond21 The last stand myth came straight from Indians because there were no Custer survivors, only a horse and he wasn't related to Mr Edd. Yep we're supposed rely on your folklore history like Elizabeth Pocahontas Warren? It wasn't an attack at the river, it was a planned feint. We know this because Custer ordered Benteen, twice to come quick. The feint was to relieve pressure on Reno/Benteen. Custer then led the Indians to last stand hill making himself inviting target so the Indians would concentrate on him. This is exactly what happened. This gave Benteen the opportunity to attack the Indians from behind and while they were changing direction. Benteen disobeyed his orders. Benteen was at the Washita with Custer and a seasoned cavalry officer. He knew exactly what was going on. Nobody knows, reliably, what happened at last stand hill. It doesn't matter (how) Custer died but it does matter (why) he died. It wasn't a retreat, it was a route. Reno lost his nerve and ran, inviting the Indians to pursue him rather than escaping. Living in a dream world is no way to go through life Grasshopper.
@@31terikennedy you just said everything I said only in your "terms" to make you look relevant. We are finally talking about what happened and we get called liars. You literally just said the same exact thing I had said 🤣 I'm not some fake ass whitey claiming this and that, I am Dakota-Sioux and Blackfoot, that's why I said I was a descendant. Your only going off of what you wanted to happen when in reality that's not what happened. I have actually been there and it's very hard to see. The last stand myth was created by your people not us. We called it the Battle of Greasy Grass, you white people called it Battle of the Little Bighorn, and Custer's Last Stand. That's not a dream to us you big turd, it's reality sorry that I have direct blood involved in this legendary battle and your lame white man ass is just some nobody wishing he was connected.
Someone should of told Biden. Leaving Americans behind in Afghanistan is inexcusable..
💯% he’s the traitor leaving our soldiers behind.
It's very hard to tell a shell of a man anything.
We didn’t leave any Americans behind.
@c3aloha Biden himself in a speech said we left 100-200 Americans behind. Look it up. It takes 45 seconds.
@@typetersen8809 yeah Trump is the kind of guy who'd stick by you in a firefight. I also have a Rudy Giuliani sex doll to sell you.
I went there in 1970....did not like it....place had a bad feel about it.
If Reno had stayed in the woods and Benteen
Had made a large move toward greasy grass..indians would not been able to bring all their might Just against Custer
A few historians and history buffs lean towards Custer being mortally wounded and his favorite scout being scalped while charging the village across lilbig river..scouts Custer dismissed and indians who fired on river crossing charge..why did Custer s remains have a close pistol shot to temple??
He wasnt able to sucide
Because of terminal wound and semi comatose state
TomCuster mutilated almost beyond id...George was recognizable..Tom commanded..George was outa the fight
Brave men in tight spot
Brave" And in a tight spot
They went to annihilate women and children to kill the Native American population They got caught Is thinking that they had the upper hand They got what they deserved
Anybody who tries to annihilate People She get the same including the Russians Who think the same way Either do it our way or it will annihilate you !
That is no way to live
God-bless and help the Ukrainian people
His name was actually pronounced sharlay
A common problem in rhe US Army rescuing fallen members out of stupid missions and risking the life of dozens more. Leads to more casualties and repeated to more and more and more.
8j
That was Flashman V.C. British soldier