How to Bring Passenger Pigeons All the Way Back: Ben Novak at TEDxDeExtinction
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- Ben J. Novak is a young scientist pioneering the emerging field of "de-extinction". The science of studying extinct species and applying their ecology and genomics to building future ecosystems is widely interdisciplinary, and demands a broad knowledge base. Ben studied ecology and evolution at Montana State University, specializing in paleontology, ecology, and genetics. He trained in Ancient DNA lab techniques under Dr. Hendrik Poinar, at the McMaster Ancient DNA Centre. His personal study of the history of the passenger pigeon and pigeon biology brings the spectrum together to work with and coordinate multiple teams to bring the passenger pigeon back to life in a project now named "The Great Comeback", a Revive and Restore initiative under the Long Now Foundation. He has joined Dr. Beth Shapiro in sequencing the genome of the passenger pigeon at University of California at Santa Cruz, and is working on developing the future designs for making de-extinction possible to diverse species beyond the passenger pigeon.
To learn more about de-extinction, please visit Revive & Restore (the organizer of TEDxDeExtinction) here: longnow.org/revive/
In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations) - Наука та технологія
One important thing that needs to always be considered - having wild lands that the animals can inhabit and not be interfered with. Having a museum or zoo specimen is nice, but we need to fully rewild the species.
Man has made a lot of bonehead moves in his time on the planet, but the persecution of the passenger pigeon until it was extinct has to be the number one travesty.
Ben Novak has the coolest job ever.
Thank you, de extinction projects like this are so inspiring to me as a biologist
American chestnut, passenger pigeon, and the Carolina parakeet are the three species We need to bring back to America.
Ivory Billed Woodpecker could use a breeding program too
This could actually be plausible! Like the reintroduction of the wolf in Yellowstone, an apex predator bought back after a 100 year hiatus has almost single handedly brought equallibriam back the rivers, bison, elk, deer, vegetation etc... Much of the deforestation that caused the decimation of the passenger pigeon, those old growth Forrest's are making a huge comeback through conservation efforts. We could make this happen!!
Mike Shearman yes true, thank you
Ben, I love this. I appreciate that you're working on it and I appreciate that you're so articulate about it, too. This speech is poignant and beautiful and really conveys the sadness and longing I feel for these currently extinct species.
I am working on bringing the american chestnut back - American Chestnuts were the main tree in the eastern USA numbering between 3.5-4.0 BILLION! This is the main food of the passenger pigeon. Nuts can grow from trees planted as seed in as little as 7 years. Wish more people would join us.
I hope to get some land in the near future and plant American Chestnuts as a crop species (among other native species). How can I get involved?
Colin Warren
They don't want us to help them.
This is their baby and they don't want to kill the golden goose, money wise.
Notice the lack of passing out chestnut trees ?
I know of half a dozen trees where i gather chestnuts and when out in the woods i toss a few handful in every gulley that is lush with a water source. Me, myself, and i. I know of no one else that does this ...
Colin Warren yes! I just purchased a hybrid and i am gathering another one and nurturing them to plant in my neighborhood park space, this park is very forested and I am optimistic that more will definitely grow!!!!
they need to make a movie about this happening.
seen jurassic park m8 ?
they need to make it a true story before that can happen!
Ben Novak left a review for my book on this topic and it made my day today. He sent it in september but I didn't read it until now. I know he will never read this but I want to thank him so much and it makes me feel better just to type this comment.
please tell me what is the name of the book
The History Guy did a nice video about the history of the passenger pigeon - he also tied in the connection between the forest and the pigeon. He spoke of how the demise of the passenger pigeon lead to the reduction of White Oak forests. How the passenger pigeon helped promote the white oak through its droppings which not only fertilized the ground but helped keep the area around the trees clear of other species of trees (such as the red oak). A friend who is into fine furniture making is always on the hunt for a good buy on white oak. Hope we can bring the passenger pigeon back. Make the forest great again!
Passengers were feathered locusts, and it was the rise of American agriculture which did for them. What percentage of US farmers are going to watch their crops being vandalised without reaching for their shotguns? One percent?
Bit hard to imagine that a whole acorn would pass through the gut of a pigeon. Unless they flew with them and dropped them. But white oaks and other oaks were spread by squirrels like today.
When I was a teen I put a morning dove egg in one of are pigeon nest and they raised it as one of their own
Would passenger pigeons see into the ultraviolet like many other bird species. If so, when you dye your pigeons, you must take that into account. :)
I should do this kind of thing later in my life with my favorite extinct North American bird; The Carolina Parakeet
It is 6 years since you posted this dream. How far have you gotten with your pursuit?
Remember why we needed it tho, it’s for the whole environment.
There was a subspecies of Carolina parrakeet called the Louisiana parrakeet. The closest living relative to these two birds is the sun parakeet.
I wonder how far along this is. I would like to see it in my lifetime.
That’s not true at all. They have made big steps forward during the past years. What are you talking about??
its must be worth a try and with this much passion it could well work good luck comrades
We have to bring back the chestnut tree foreChestnutst of North America. That was a primary food source for those birds. Then you can reintroduce cornerstone species and if you reintroduce big game like the wood and forest bison then it could really be the American forests of the 1500’s.
One guy said that their major source of food was chestnuts and they are practically extinct.
That would make sense, and the deer herds must have been like buffalo herds because 1 in 4 tree's were chest nuts.
I would love to see wood and forest bisons brought back to the forests of North America.
Why not resurrect the Great Auk? There is plenty of genetic material available in European museums, especially in England. The great Auk is closely related to the Razorbill. The main differences are : - The great Auk is larger, has abbreviated wings more like a penguin's, and has a white spot just behind its eye. The eggs too are very similar, except that those of the Great Auk are larger. The genomes of the two birds are closely similar and in the not-so-distant past they had a common ancestor. The Razorbill also swims like a penguin in pursuit of fish, but although its wings are small they are large enough for it to fly in a rather laborious manner. If you could insert the gene for larger size, the gene for atrophied wings and the gene producing the white spot on the great Auk's head into a Razorbill, you would have a Great Auk. They both shared a similar lifestyle except that atrophied wings would not allow either bird to breed on cliff ledges. Great Auks were forced to breed on rocky islets. There is more prestige attached to bringing back the Great Auk, which became extinct about 1850 (last reliable sighting was in 1844).
OK, IT'S BEEN SIX YEARS NOW. WHERE ARE THEY?!?!
If you bring them back i'll send them forward.
The extinction of the passenger pigeon seems to coincide with the demise of the american chestnut tree. Was this a major food source and if so shouldn't we restore this food source first
Yes from last Ted Talk seems a possiblity.
how about the ivory billed woodpecker and the carolina parakeet,,,those would be my top 2
I still have hope that these birds will come back...
I noticed that the passenger pigeon and passenger pigeon eggs at the Pember Library & Museum in Granville is not listed among the locations. Just wanted to let you know we have at least one mount and numerous eggs in our collection. And though I have looked, I can't find your "The Great Comeback" page on Facebook
great job novak
You will need the Darling 58 American Chestnut tree. This will supply food during migration. Both work together.
I'm going to be honest here. As a nature lover and self-proclaimed "Bird Nerd", this excites me. But as an aerospace engineer, this also terrifies me. We would need MAJOR overhauls to our airborne infrastructure and the planes themselves if we want Passenger Pigeons to not wreak havoc on our aircraft. Bird strikes kill (edit: both birds and people) - this would bring that to a whole new, and extremely dangerous, level.
Why do you think your ancestors killed all our life in the first place? Humans chose Technology And AI over Nature and Life is the cold hard truth emillee
@@wolf9311 I am well aware of that. My point is that it would be extremely difficult for an aircraft to survive a bombard of living artillery (in the form of the pigeons) and that most of our existing infrastructure probably is not designed to support the sheer weight of a Passenger Pigeon flock. That is what needs to change if we revive the Passenger Pigeon, or our aircraft and critical infrastructure will be toast.
hell yeah, lets go for it
What would be the point if the American chestnut hasn't been brought back yet? That was their main food supply.
Totally cool. Get the flock going!!!
Basically they grab the closest living relative and alter one of the cells of that organism by mutating it to get very close or almost exactly the same as the one the scientists want the bring it to life
They were eaten. In fact, hunting Passenger Pigeons was a major industry back in the 1800's with hunters providing wagon load and railway car loads of them for markets in the city. Just in economic terms, hunting them to extinction was a very dumb move. Even if Passenger Pigeons are never widely devoured again, once recreated again, one can still find domestic Pigeon Squabs at some farmers' markets.
Someone somewhere stated that dinasours grew when food was abundant the more of one souce the preditors became larger. The loss of that source the smaller. Crossing or mutating still could be availavble, but the studies are more expensive. business support drops in and out when something could prove to be profitable.
Why doesn’t anyone talk about America’s native parakeet that was driven to extinction. Please bring back the Carolina parakeet
Where did you hear about that?
I hope they also bring back the carolina parakeet too.
The real issue is will you be able to develop the social structure complete with language and behavior. I think it is a noble effort and I hope it goes well.
The American chestnut won't remember the passenger pigeon like oaks, poplars, and Naples. SAD.
Let's say that they do create young passenger pigeons to get raise by other types pigeons that's fur are dyed to look like parent passenger pigeons. Would the young passenger pigeons truly act and function like their original selves or would they start acting and function like type of pigeons that raise them? This to me would be a concern in trying to bring them back.
Gina Martindale pigeons don't have fur. They aren't mammals.
Still waiting for someone to address the problem of the European Starlings that have taken over the country and will compete against the pigeons.
Is it now not extinct now because its 5 years later now
How will you control inbreeding? Is there enough DNA to "prevent" that to a large extent?
he said there was around 105 specimens with useable dna
where is the transcript?
How would the passenger pigeon know to not mate with the rock pigeon? how would the passenger pigeon not be influenced by the artificial flock in a non-traditional manner? Interesting study though!
It wouldn't. As mentioned in the vid, the Passenger Pigeon was a very close relation to the Band-tailed Pigeon which still exists today in abundant numbers. I actually have Band-tails that visit my backyard feeders. The Band-tails are often in very close proximity with rock pigeons and don't cross breed. It would be the same reason why a Cooper's Hawk won't interbereed with a Sharp-shinned hawk which is almost identical to the Cooper's.
❤️❤️❤️
I cant believe this pigeon didnt interbreed with other pigeon species
The Indian meaning for "Mimico" is "the resting place of the wild pigeons. Passenger Pigeons would rest at the mouth of Mimico Creek before flying south across Lake Ontario. Passenger Pigeons once numbered in the billions. Sadly, the last Passenger Pigeon died in captivity in 1914. Our community is beginning to tell more of our conservation history through art/ murals. Your story could be a valuable contender to spread the word in our area. Bravo & good luckX!
Is he still working on this in 2018?
Crabdude64 yep, they have a facebbok page on it.
Yeah. Check out Revive and Restore. We should have Passenger Pigeons back by early 2020.
@@safron2442 are they here now?
@@wosh253 No, but they are getting there. There is already Cas-9 chimera rock pigeons that will pave the way for the passenger pigeons eventual de-extinction. They have had some set backs due to covid and slow research though
@@safron2442 oh ok i would like to see these creatures come back, hopefully we dont hunt them to extinction again this time
God I hope they can do it
It surprises me when people say that the PP is supposed to be most closely related to band-tailed pigeons when they look just like large mourning doves with the tapered tail that band-tailed pigeons don't have but mourning doves do. The coloration is also just like mourning doves with the fawn dorsum and rosy breast, neither of which the band-tailed pigeon has.
Convergent evolution causes unrelated (or relatively unrelated species) to look much alike. DNA is the final say on how related two organisms are.
Recessive Alleles!
I love pigeons
One problem. The American Chestnut tree needs to be restored first.
Better restore the American chestnut as well, you’ll need that keystone species as well
is thare pigeons with passener pigeon dna
Hey did they manage to bring this bird back to life?
Passenger Pigeon spotted in North Carolina
The forests are not the same forests the great flocks knew. The most numerous, stable mast producing tree of the east is gone. One the passenger pigeons relied on heavily. Our forests cannot be returned to it's former glory without the American Chestnut. The oaks are hardly enough to feed the deer and turkey. Much less flocks of pigeons
just make it happen do it
Just not as easy as saying as saying great "go do that "
It's an interesting project, but the problem is that the passenger pigeonwas an agricultural pest and had a likestyle which made it very susceptible to persecution, which is why it died out. Couldn't you resurrect the Dodo, which was never an agricultural pest? There is some genetic material preserved in the Ashmolean and other museums for you to work with. Or what about the Great Auk?
You could do this, but Passenger Pigeons may still be alive. The last recorded one may have died, but people have discovered species that were believed to be extinct too, like the coelacanth
No it's gone it needs a large group to survive and pigeons have soooo many predators
charlie hagan You never know. They could be hiding in a Pakistan compound for 100 years
They could also be in someone's basement seeking pleasure knowing the world doesn't know about it yet.
I curious if anyone understood my "Pakistan compound" reference
It seems like you're making a good point, but I don't know much about genetics. Could you elaborate on this?
read revive and restore they revive an extinct ferret
Did you ever think that it is extinct at mother natures will for a reason? That it was inevitable for it not to hv survived.
No. Although that argument could be said about some extinct species, the extinction of the passenger pigeon was 100% solely caused by humans slaughtering them by the 10's of thousands. This creature is one that we bear responsibility for, there is no denying that. Had we not willingly killed them all, they would still exist today.
What happened to this?
read revive and restore they revive an extinct ferret
Pi Pony wish they’d do the passenger pigeon
@@pambennett8967 probably not possible
Passenger pigeons relied on the once giant American chestnuts that grew in the eastern USA.
They won't be able to have passenger Pigeons until they breed blight resistant American chestnuts.
The Giant American Chestnut forests were obliterated by one of the biggest ecological Forest disasters ever recorded in modern history between 1904 and 1945.
The tree fungus or blight, was the main reason why the passenger pigeon disappeared.
no progress in 10 years?
This is depressing. Trying to work out how to undo the bad actions of humans on a beautiful bird.
read revive and restore they revive an extinct ferret
Well thought out. The poor parenting character seems to help with aviary bred birds.
What is the use of bringing back the passenger pigeon why should we put so much money into this?
shouldn't we focus on what's still alive and being threatened by Extinction.
Deep inside, we are all environmentalists. The latent environmentalist inside tells me to apply some critical thinking here. Ben Novak seems to be seeking our help in pursuit of his private childhood dream. Given our inability to predict or control anything, there are plenty of unanswered questions here. Mr. Novak hopes to release the passenger pigeon into an ecology, which has adapted to its absence. And he will do it through gene-splice engineering, Given the discovery of embedded code in the genome, along with overlapping code and even meta-data, Novak runs the risk of unleashing something he didn't intend. I down-vote the idea, and will roll with the diligent preservation of what we still have.
One wonders if all those pigeons killed in the past where mostly eaten or just used for target practice...??? Roasted and stuffed pigeon was the food of the Nobility in Europe and Middle East during the Medieval period. There are some very good recipes from Egypt, Syria, Italy and France that are worth trying. So by all means, bring these tasty flying rodents back to our dining tables. YUM...
Bring back aurochs
I head that there were just too many of them and they messed up the ecology. Too many of them. Like people. I want to see wooly mammoths.
gl cloning 5B pigeons lol
Good luck understanding how science actually works. Lol!
Pigeons are dodo birds?
in reverse, dodos r pigeons by belonging to the dove family
Well Ben J. Novak you stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish
something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you
patterned it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunch box and
now you're selling it...you're just selling it
so pharmacy sell drugs what's your point?
If we have billions of these birds again won't it be a problem for the airplanes?
Because birds fly at 13,000 feet? I don't think so....
Elton Prela ????ummm, no and really who gives a damn about people and airplanes.
Its hard do believe that this Species that numbered in the Millions and Billions could of come to Extinction in just a short time!... It had to of had a Fatal Flaw, and that was probably that it drew Humans to it, because of its Huge Numbers and easy access... I'm a Hunter and I hunt Ducks, Geese , and Mourning Doves (Which are a Cousin of the Passenger Pigeon), but Mourning Doves are still here !!!... Its larger and more numerous Cousin the Passenger Pigeon, drew Humans to it !... It couldn't be Ignored !... Especially because it was so Obvious , and flew in such unbelievable sized flocks !... And back then, things were different... No Game Laws, Hunting Seasons or Bag Limits.... People thought they could make a Profit off of the Species, and the Numbers would never cease or dry up !... The Pigeon had a definite Flaw in its make up though !... The Heredity of this Species, doomed it !!!... If it couldn't fly, eat and travel in Huge (unbelievable) Numbers , it couldn't Survive...
Once its Numbers were depleted, beyond its survival Threshold, it was doomed... Unlike the Mourning Dove , if the Passenger Pigeons numbers could not be Maintained , beyond a certain Threshold , even if it was still in the Millions, it was on its way out... The Species had definite weakness and inherent Flaw, which led to its demise... Other Species in the U.S. that were here when the Passenger Pigeon was here , are still around ? ... Their Genetic make-up was stronger... and they could adjust somewhat to Change, better than the Pigeon... and its a sad story !....
I wish them luck, on trying to Genetically bring back the Passenger Pigeon.... It would be nice to actually see one, before I die... I've always dreamed about what it would of been like to have actually seen them in their Day & Time...
Kenneth G. Hebert
Lake Charles, Louisiana
@Europa H2O Alien Hunting and poaching had Everything to do with it, do some research.
I'm afraid your incorrect Ken Hebert there was No Fatal Flaw ..... No enforceable regulations on hunting . Plain and simple . There where not cattle ranches ,or chicken farms. Just the beginning of human over population and careless treatment of natural living animals.
They probably shot 60% more than they would have even picked up off the ground .
No
i bet they gave up....
too many forced metaphors, very distracting overall.
Wish humans would die out
Just make sure bird hunting is illegial in the areas you going to breed them
But Is this really bringing back a passenger pigeon... no it’s breeding a band tailed pigeon that will look like and behave like a passenger pigeon 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Thing is, even if you're successful, would the birds you create really be passenger pigeons? Sure, they may have (your idea of) the DNA of true passenger pigeons, but they wouldn't be descended from the same birds as the original pigeons.
So nobody cares about endangered animals? ?
This was uploaded on april 1 so i think this is a fraud
This is real. I wouldn't be scared as an engineer if it was fake.
It will not happen, this is a waste of time.
Even if it ends up being a failure, it still advances knowledge of practical genetics. How you can say it is a waste of time is beyond me. Many of the best discoveries in science occurred because of failure.
"It will not happen" as it's happening 😂
Passenger Pigeon spotted in North Carolina