5 Common Songwriting Myths Debunked
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
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Holistic Songwriting is the most relevant resource for modern Songwriters/Producers on the net.
Friedemann Findeisen is an award-winning songwriter and the author of the bestselling book "The Addiction Formula". As a musical profiler, he coaches some of the biggest producers in Germany.
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Once I finished my four semesters of music theory. My Professor said, “now go out and break the rules!”
i am an architect. we grow up hearing less is more etc..but if you ask me what i think after 15 years as an architect " less is hard! "
I trained and worked as an industrial designer for years. Eventhough I don't do it any more I think 'less is more' is a really good lesson for almost anything in life.
When people say "I wrote that in 30 seconds" they usually mean most of the chords and the vocal melody of the chorus came real easy. They don't then say we jammed it out as a band for two years before we even realised what we had.
Very true
Truth.
Anyone can make a simple song that is functional, but making a simple song that is amazing is hard because making ANY amazing song is hard
@@AgentChavo true and i honestly think a lot of artists fall into the trap of trying to make music that impresses other artists rather than picking an easier audience
Some songs are indeed better than udders.
Love it :D
Especially cow punk..
Aha! Rural Smiths!
Regarding point 1)
I came to songwriting from the poetry side of things. Deep down, I still consider myself more a lyricist than a songwriter. With this in mind, I went through a lot of disappointment when I started out. I would present a demo to other people and they would immediately comment on melody, structure, or even just how wrong the kickdrum sounds - when all I wanted was to show them the lyrics to hear whether they thought those lyrics were okay to work with. Unfortunately, unless you're Leonard Cohen or, to a lesser degree, Bruce Springsteen, people don't really care about what you sing. Your producer friends will listen for production faults, your instrumentalist friends will grab a guitar and just jam along (and say that this Gmaj7 really should be replaced by a D major chord), your singer friends will add spontaneous extra melodies, singing "lalala"... Only when your song convinced them that it is musically worth their while will they spend a moment to listen to your lyrics...
Janek Albinsky ugh the truth hurts but so much this
I fully agree with you. Your critiques are not at your level of sophisticated writing. Find better people. But that’s hard. Also difficult to find honest critiques.
Because that's the truth, people don't care about the lyrics, only if you have established fans
The thing with lyrics is that’s all most people can take from a song and the lyrics usually being the melody makes lyrics seem like it’s the only thing songwriters focus on but really they can’t see the bigger picture ...structure harmony rhythm and much. More
BUY HIS BOOK. It is great and has helped me make sense of songwriting as a whole.
What's up humialupodioanaurjea holistic songwriting
1. Song Writing Is Not Lyric Writing 0:25
2. Simple Is Not Easy 1:40
3. It's Not About that One Idea 3:50
4. Music Is Not Just Subjective 6:55
5. Music Is Not All About Rules 9:00
Jason Fan Club god bless
my favorite thing you do is the summary at the end. It just ties it all together in a way that I can retain after I understand it all. thanks man!
Lyrics are my strongest things, I have issues with melodies. Also I don't thing lyrics should be poetry. Poems are standalone works that should work by themselves. Lyrics need to interact with the music for them to be good.
Evgeni! I want to answer that with a Supertramp Song! You're Bloody well right
I think that in Pop music at least the most important thing is not the meaning of the lyrics but how the sound of the words contribute to make the melody more interesting, it's what I called "lyrics musicality"
@@lost_valley I agree some music the chorus is just a word repetead that could be boring very easily but in the context of the music it works.
@@lost_valley Yeah right, take Radioactive by Imagine Dragons, the lyrics alone are not something great but the Music is just so frickin' awesome!!!!
Evgeni Brosvik heeh then write me some pls 😍
Anyone else really wanna hear that alternative metal song?
I wonder if he has it somewhere on UA-cam. I wish he would have linked somewhere we could hear it :/
Might just write my own :)
Not really, no.
yeah, i really wanna hear it, because it sounds great
Hey guys, you can find the track here: soundcloud.com/friedemannfindeisen/where-is-your-heart
Good video, but i think it lacked examples, like you usually do. It really helps to illustrate what youre talking about
Good point, thanks!
Hi! I'm a new viewer that's really enjoying your content, particularly the breakdowns on specific artists. I have a suggestion/request for one that I'd love to watch. I'd like it a lot if you did one on Nine Inch Nails. I've been a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails for many years now and would enjoy hearing what you have to say about the band, specifically about Trent Reznor.
I don't expect you to do a video on the band, but I'm just putting ideas out there. :)
So right about setting up the hook..sometimes the verse is harder to write than the hook
The best example for the last point in my opinion is Noise (the genre) :D
Great video, you just got a new subsciber :)
Finally caved and bought your book today. Can’t wait to learn! 🖤
'Song writing in not lyric writing' I know musicians who dont believe its a song without lyrics. I am not a professional, but I have been writing my own music for 3 decades. Melody and mood means more to me. I seem to get better results if I approach melody like sculpting and work from all available angles. I might take a fat pad sound stretch out a few chords over a given amount of time and divine a melody within that blob of sound. Once in a while I will write several versions of common chord progressions and find a melody over that.
I am not sure why music has to be simple, and you are correct its freaking hard to write a simple pop song. Being an older person complicated melodies were pop songs. I suppose if they get enough air play they become acceptable, that is a form of repetition
On the topic of music being subjective; I think the philosophy to follow would be "know the rules before you break them". Something can break the rules of convention but if it's done with enough wit it might just work, it just depends. There will always be someone who enjoys somethin'.
Hi, can you do an episode on how to paint pictures in the audiences head through lyrics and harmony? I feel like that's a really important part in music. Like so he can see.
Probably the only best video about songwriting in UA-cam. All the 5 points are spot on 👌
As a philosophy major, I see a parallel between your fourth and fifth songwriting myths, and two common fallacies concerning ethics. First, just because people have different opinions and preferences does not mean that morality (or music) is entirely subjective or relative to personal taste; it is clear that some things are objectively better than others. Second, this does not imply that morality (or music) is governed by absolute rules; to say that some courses of action are demonstrably better than others need not entail that one course of action is right and all the others are wrong. Once we have determined that some actions/songs are better than others, we recognize that it is a matter of personal taste specifically which good actions/songs of the many fine alternatives that we then choose to perform/listen to-i.e., there are many different ways to be a good person, and likewise there are many different ways of writing good music. (For anyone wondering, the field of philosophy of which I am speaking is known as “axiology,” which concerns ethics and aesthetics.)
bionicpotato HI, I'm also a philosophy major. I think you need some kind of metric so you can define what constitutes "demonstrably better", and that is where problems arise. With regards to music, the species as a whole has been generally wired and has evolved to respond to certain elements in music which, when they occur, results in humans labelling the music as "good" for all intents and purposes. This is analagous with us labelling murder as "wrong" for example, even though there is no way to prove anything is wrong in an absolute sense. So, in the same way we can recognize murder as "wrong" in most contexts, for most members of the species (because we are so repelled by it), we can also recognize that a song which hits high marks on most metrics we value, within certain contexts, can be meaningfully recognized as "good" or "better" than another piece of music. It is always extremely important to define terms and identify contexts. For example, a novelty record may be a great song in its intended context - making people laugh for a month or so - but it may NOT be a great song in the larger scheme of musical metrics like inspiring people, influencing musicians, provoking thought, challenging musical norms, etc.
bruhh this should be the reply to the top comment, you took the words out of my mouth and made it better lol
Really appreciate your viewpoint on this!
At the risk of getting too philosophical, all music (or any aesthetic judgement really) IS fully subjective because it's quality isn't tied to anything practical. Ok maybe some kinds of music that are purpose made to achieve some kind of effect can be considered better or worse than others, but the only real example i can think of is scores from propaganda films. all other forms of music are open to interpretation so I don't see how you can say a song had a tangible agenda to achieve let alone that it did so better than any other song. It really comes down to value judgements and value is definitely 100% subjective because it's imaginary. It doesn't exists anywhere but in the mind of the observer. Also, to say that something is objectively good is to say that someone who doesn't like it is necessarily wrong for not doing so and that just doesn't make sense. What you like isn't a matter of right or wrong.
Like you said there are societal conventions and a general overlap of tastes because we're all the same species, but that's not really even close to objectivity. It's just subjectivity at a larger scale. There are other societies with VERY different tastes from Western Civilization and it's entirely possible that there exist other species "out there" who enjoy the exact opposite of what any human would call good. So music is only kinda objective and only in so far as the given sociocultural context. IMO if you have to add that many qualifiers to a label, you might as well not even us it.
Oh and the the no rules statement contradicts the idea that there is any objectivity in musical quality. If there are no rules, then by definition there can be no way to judge one song as being better than another. If one song is indeed better than another, that necessarily means there was some rule it failed to follow as well as the other song.
Again, I'm just being overly philosophical here. Not tryinna start a flame war.
Hello, I'm a bit late commenting this but I just wanted to say that I completely agree. Having thought long and hard about the topic of art and what makes 'good' or 'bad' art, I have come to the same conclusion: it is, in the end, subjective. Even if some art seems inherently 'better' because it has a more complex or deeply thought out structure/concept/rhythm etc. and is therefore much more successful, that's just subjectivity on a larger scale, like you say. So thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm relieved to hear someone else mention this. The last time I said something like this, I was insulted and met with dismissive tones. But like you mention, if someone does not like something that does not mean their taste is 'wrong' or 'bad' - it's all subjective right? #freewill #uniqueness - so how can we possibly say that certain pieces of art (films/songs/stories/paintings) are 'bad'? I think people are just terrified of this concept. Western culture has the habit of putting things into boxes, of understanding things as objective, because it grants them a larger degree of control. Admitting that all art is subjective is terrifying. It was to me when I realised it. But freedom can feel unnatural and terrifying at first sometimes, especially when you've been deprived of it for so long. But as a great artist once said, 'Music is not something you should keep for yourself. It can’t be put in a cage, because it’s wild and alive' (AURORA, at 20 years of age). I think the term 'wild' here is most important.
I disagree. This is such a common argument and it IS too philosophical. Music can be objectively bad. Yes there is indeed a huge subjective aspect to music, but there is music that can be just bad technically speaking, and to almost anyone's ears. And that doesnt mean not following the rules - plenty of songs that follow the rules that suck!
It boils down almost, in one aspect at least, to substance. A composition that sounds pretty but doesnt have any substance, depth, or emotional scope, is what I like to call "good-bad" - yea it does a job of making a pretty song, but theres no depth, story, substance of any kind, compositional cleverness or interesting methods/techniques that make not only casual listeners go hmmm but people studying music.
Such music might do its intended job! But overall its not groundbreaking music that makes you reflect on, its not music that makes you think and feel for more than a few seconds. An example of this type is pop music. It does its job - good in that sense. But most of it is bad music.
@@illanellinor yeah this line of thought gets met with harsh resistance because it also applies to morality and people don't like the idea that their definition of right vs. wrong isn't THE correct one.
@@JMRabil675 ok depth, story, substance are things YOU like in music, but the idea that those things are good is itself a subjective value judgement. if you didn't exist, what would MAKE those things good or desirable? Design a scientifically rigorous experiment that elimantes subjective interpretation from the method, but still proves whether one piece of art is superior to another or not. I've been trying to do that for a while and haven't been able to and according to google, neither has anyone else in history. so if you can or know of someone who has, I'd like to hear about it (seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. I'd love to be proven wrong in this because of the above mentioned moral implications).
@@xchowsx agreed, and arguably there is no ultimate truth. There never was and never will be. Not to say 'well to hell with it, let's kill each other and do whatever we can think of doing, because it doesn't matter in the end'. There are things that people over the centuries have come to value that I think are important (in my opinion ofc), like kindness. Showing compassion. Not because I know it to be logically 'right' but because on a 'feeling' based level I want to be kind to others. Maybe things like that have continued to be important to humanity for a reason.
Thank you very much. Welcome back.
Great book. I absolutely loved it. Totally intuitive.
Well made video and some these are definitely great ways to start discussion
Great Video! BUY HIS BOOK! It has really helped me make sense of songwriting as a whole.
3:33 - that's something unheard of in pop. Everything gets boring almost instantly in pop music, especially since it's all been heard in a 1000 other songs already.
Good Job coach 🤔 Simplicity is Key.
Auto subscribe.
Haha
Love your videos even though I haven't watched them
But gonna save them to watch later hehe
Hinder
Harmony
Wobby rustling
Do I really need this element
Is it needed
If a section is extremely well written u won't get bored if we'll loop 4o times
Set up and where u place hook and how it convey MSG's and energy is as important as hook
Full emotions
There's no rule
Song should compliment your character
Good job as always
I hate when an artist says they wrote a song and they only wrote the lyrics....a song is lyrics and music!
Anthony Bernard That’s why I like when they differentiate lyric writing from song (melody, harmony, rhythm) writing.
Is it normal if you hear sounds in your head? Like when I write songs there's this voice that is singing a Melody then I can also hear instruments especially piano and drums, I hear them yet they are blurry and hazy. I wrote all of my songs in that method, it's driving me crazy. btw I'm 16 from Philippines and I genuinely love your videos about songwriting!
Keep it up!!!!!!! ❤️❤️
idk if it's normal but that's how Beethoven was able to write music after he went deaf so you're in good company
I wouldnt say i hear music in my mind but i can imagine very quicly how i want it to move in the next step. Sometimes your mind just fill the gaps in your composition.
Yes, it’s called audiation. One of the most important gifts for musicians. Take advantage of it, it is rare.
loved the format
You should analyse say 50 all time hooks...the anatomy..the elements that make it up !? You get alot of views!
A good example of how lyrics and music are written together is the documentary of the album Sonic Highways from Foo Fighters, where parts of the interviews were used as lyrics and the songs were put together afterwards, influenced by the history of the city where that songs was written
Extremly usefull video for begginners! Greetings from russian songwriters, man!=))
Loved the video.
Sir, you get me. Thank you.
Great channel
HI!! I was watching your Nirvana video, and I want you to do one on CHON OR Ttng. They are math rock bands and it seems it would be more interesting to dissect such a master of genre. If you arent familiar I bet you would become a fan really quick! I subscribed!
Love TTNG, chon is dope too
Can you do an episode on Green Day , I think they have amazing song writing ability and can transform simple power chord progression in to something else with their writing ability .
I would like it if you can breakdown their writing process which is a total mystery for everyone.
Finally someone recognizes the challenge of writing quality simple pop songs.
You said in your last video that there are songwriter from different backgrounds. I am definitely a poed, a year ago I started writing songs at first it was hart for me to get melody but that evolved. Still so often I am so frustrated, because I feel like I have a Sorte of nice melody and even nice lyrics but it just don't sound good, like professional music . Usually I like my poetry but my music often leefs me frustrated, could you please make a video about what this kind of song writers need to look for aspechaly when we still feel like beginners.
Some people just have it in them, probabely from their childhood milieu but most people need to learn the basics so they can use their brains and improve themselves. I do agree with the packaging and stuff but still the basic rules are of importance to learn first, before letting them go as you do now. I still miss the rhythm here. We start our lives by listening to mothers heartbeat, lungs, laughter etc. I did a study on that in the late 90's from the aspect of rhythm inbetween the sounds. So I am always thinking of the rhythm in the songs not only between the bass, drums and percussions but also the rhythm as a whole. The playfulness that there is rhythmically between all the instruments and the Vocals itself can keep the whole thing interesting enough to keep our attention. As a song writer I would think of the overall feel I am going to express first and formost and there comes the rhythm I think. Even the melody starts with the rhythm or am I mistaking? 💕🎸🎶 I just thought of Pink Floyd, they often use pre-recorded material as a part of the music in a smart musical way too. Today we have the harmonizers for changing the pitch and timestrech applications for the timing so one can pretty much fit enything anywhere, you just need that general idea and a huge fantasy( which I need more of myself)!😋
Even people who have the talent, like Ed Sheeran, claim they wrote hundreds of shit songs before the dank ones
Liked for the song bridge of doom (tape flip)
Great video
can you please make a video on jimi hendrix and how to write songs with that frantic, groovy psychedelic sound?
Listen to dillinger escape plan and tell me again that music shouldnt be complicated
What we do as a band here on our channel is i come up with lyrics and a theme. I take that theme to Tim, our guitarist, because his is a melody genius. He creates his guitar playing and Ben our drummer lays down his drum beats to each piece of a song. Then we decide the layout of the song together.
Same here, the melody is key before lyrics!!!!
Where did you get that Cobain picture from?
Talking about breaking the rules, the end of "A Day in the Life", where the orchestra moves up a chromatic scale, makes no musical sense, but it's brilliant.
"Mythsconceptions"
he's German lol
Great - as usual
About the simplistic nature of pop music:
It is not the problem, that it is simple!
The problem is, that most of it does not add to the canon!
It is just light entertainment. The world has enough light entertainment.
Btw: you are german, aren't you? Can't you make a german edition of the Tracking Journal? My girlfriend got it for me and for half a year or so I was not "in the mood" to read an english book from a motivation trainer :D (sorry about the motivation trainer, just an inside of what I think, when I decide to not read the book)
TRUE
@4:00 there is another part to that, regarding the Stones. Their first song by Sir Mike &Keith, at that point they were well versed in blues, their faves, howling wolf, Solomon Burke, Chuck Berry, the Beatles to name a few, so at that point, they already had a style when their first song was written. They wrote it reportedly when their manager locked them in a hotel room, and ordered them to write their own songs. Marianne Faithful, Sir Mike's girlfriend at the time, made a huge hit out of their reportedly first song ever written, and loved to this day, Susan Boyle being the last one to make a hit out of that same song, their first, yet they had a style already..
..loving that UA-cam referred your page, am considering juining on patreon..
Excellent and generous pay it forward here, bravo!! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Well clarified.
"Less is more" Tell that to Kanye
Simple songs are easy to write if you know music. Play four chords, write the melody line, then google what words are trendy and you end up like Swift.
There are no rules but tools, read greatest songwriting technique by jack perricone and write better lyrics by pat pattison both are from berklee faculty
10:10 Can we hear that song please?
Can you do a video about Beyoncé (just like your other series) , how she markets herself & how her visuals work. It would be interesting since she is a big star.
This is indeed interesting
She doesnt market herself lol, its a team of 19 boomers in suits that do the marketing, promoting, etc for her. She does NOTHING. Get educated about how the music industry actually works for the stars
Useful video! But your list is confusingly expressed. The 5 points listed should be the things which are misconceived. For example, if you want to say that “simple is not easy”, then your list of “misconceptions” should include “simple is easy”. A list of 5 misconceptions including “simple is not easy” tells me that simple actually IS easy. Maybe pedantic, I know, but it took me a while to work out what you were saying. But, as I said, really good points, thanks!
Steve vai always said learn all the rules and break em
1) I've never heard myth 1, but I guess it's possible people believe it. It's not true that songwriting is just lyric writing.
2) Writing a good, simple song is difficult.
3) Not really clear on what you're saying here. Do people really think that any idea, even one great idea, doesn't need to be developed or put into context for maximum effect?
4) I agree that there are things in songs which we as a whole tend to respond to moreso when they occur. So yes, music isn't completely subjective. So yes, people SHOULD be able to recognize a well realized or well crafted song, or a highly influential song, or historically important song, even if they PERSONALLY don't like it.
5) There are guidelines, not rules, but even the exceptions to the guidelines often derive their impact from general observance of the guidelines otherwise.
Jeff Payne Songwriting is easy. Writing truly good songs is not.
Casually advertise personal product AND voice your own opinion on Lion King? Unbelievable. I subscribed.
Yes, it is so....
The main job of lyrics, imho, is to stay out of the way of the story the music is telling.
EDIT: And I say that as something of a lyrics geek who loves classic literature, majored in English Lit., and has written poetry since I was a kid.
This is bullshit. Write your music. Write. Write. Write. Write what your heart tells you. Write about your dreams. White about lost love. Write about lost friendship. Write about your life. Just write. But don’t write to this shit. This shit is based on those who wrote with only the love of music and the love of pain and the love of not being loved in their soul. Just write. And keep writing. Keep fucking writing until you’ve nothing left. As Bukowski said: it’s the only good fight there is.
What's your fixation on apple logo? It's really not that great hahaha
umm kurt cobain was always on pitch.
With so many music in the world, the only example you could think of of something you don't like but you recognize it's good was... the lion king? LOL (do not watch the remake then, btw)
Kurt was a very average (at best) musician. But he was a phenomenal melody writer. Love your videos, but wanted to point this out - Kurt’s melodies made Nirvana what they were. Took them to the top of the charts. He wasn’t too “pitchy” or off-time. In fact, his alliteration and phonetic flow carried his lyrics, giving them a sense of belonging and meaning that wasn’t necessarily there. So, yeah. Kurt wasn’t off pitch or tempo. Maybe the timbre/tonality of his voice was less than “commercial”, but his melodies were golden. Just goes to show, it’s not always what you’re saying, but how it’s being said.
Great channel. Thanks for the awesome content 👌
Each genre has it's own set of rules. 👈🏻
Interesting point.. Can you give an example?
@@MikeSarge Instrumentation, lyricism, overall vibe...you name it.
I've been paying great attention to your channel, but if you don't like The Lion King I just can't trust your lessons anymore.
Okay this is hilarious! lol
What's up everyone fledelmanfensherefromolisticsongwriting
Kurt Cobain didn't sing out of tune
Please do a video about imagine dragons music!!!
I would write better songs if I could get my para-meters correct.
lyrics are overrated
What's up everyone zxcxsfxxvfdxcvg songwriting.
Very much disagree with #2. I can understand your point about limited composition, but if I compare writing a simple pop song for a 4 piece band vs writing a technical death metal song for a 4 piece band, technical death metal (the complete opposite of simple) is waaaaaay harder to write.
Magmoormaster I think his point was: when you are composing for fewer elements, the individual parts become more important.
Techical anything as a genre relies heavily on the technical part. It's same as the orchestra example: you can easily overwhelm the listener by doing something flashy without it being well written. Just strumming rythmic 16th notes in weird time signatures isn't well written song, it is a math excercice.
And altough screaming is very technically difficult form of singing, it easily hides the lack of good lyrics and well written melody.
I'm no means saying that there are not well written songs in the genre, but there definetly are way more easy distraction tricks than in pop music.
Yes, it's easier to hide behind flashy parts in technical music. But the argument is not "it's harder to write a well-written simple song than a mediocre technical song." That wouldn't be a fair comparison.
I'm saying, as is the video, that flashy stuff more often passes as well written even if that is not the case.
I also disagree. Hard part is to write masterpieces not to wrok with limitation. Modern Pop bad, not because of bad execution but because nobody produces songs that can compete to the masterpieces we keep listening to for hundreds of years. It is obvious that stars like taylor swift have great musicians wotking for her but none of these would be capable of producing the next "Four Seasons" or the next "Sweet Child o mine". It is not the case that moden music is bad in it selfe but most new songs simply cannot compete with other music that already shaped whole centurys.
Hi! I'm a new viewer that's really enjoying your content, particularly the breakdowns on specific artists. I have a suggestion/request for one that I'd love to watch. I'd like it a lot if you did one on Nine Inch Nails. I've been a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails for many years now and would enjoy hearing what you have to say about the band, specifically about Trent Reznor.
I don't expect you to do a video on the band, but I'm just putting ideas out there. :)