Start learning a new language in 3 weeks with Babbel! Click the link in the chat or use my link bit.ly/49jqaoS to get up to 60% OFF a lifetime subscription!
I would love to hear your thoughts on mobile games, I’m old school 53yo and was a kid when Atari hit the market so I’ve been around for this whole revolution, but mobile games seem to be a bridge too far for me. They all seem the same. What do you think? ✊🏾💪🏾
I'm more concerned about the corporatizing of the gaming landscape than any genre specific behavior. I would say the mass layoffs and live service plague are direct results of this.
That resulted largely from shrinking virtual worlds and commodizing them to make more money, sorry but issues like this actually go hand and hand. The gaming landscape has been corporate for over 20 years, it's just now people like you notice it more because its affecting multiple popular mainstream games.
@Nerdslayergaming No, there was definitely a _massive_ shift - in the industry as a whole, not just mmos - that started in the early 10's. Saying it's been like this for over 20 years is disingenuous, at best.
@CannedCoochiecouldn't have said this better myself, also we should not forget that questionable market practices have also been around almost since games have existed
As an MMO designer for the past 15 years, you always have to build for your minimum system requirements. This can be a specific hardware spec on PC, or a specific console, or even mobile device. The lower the hardware specs of the devices you support however, the more players you can attract, so for the sake of funding a game it is always a tradeoff between hardware capabilities and potential playerbase. Sometimes the limiting factor isn't even consoles, because your minimum PC spec is lower than what current generation consoles provide. Apart from input and UI considerations (which you can just make an alternate version of like FFXIV), modern consoles aren't too limiting in terms of MMO development anymore, unless you're targeting pretty high end hardware which means you probably won't have enough players anyway. Here is an exercise. Check the specs for the console of your choice and then take a look at the latest Steam Hardware & Software Survey. See what percentage of Steam players would be able to play a game that had the same minimum requirements for PC as the specs for a console. What you will generally see is that there are quite a few players using lower end hardware who won't be able to play a game that uses console specs as a minimum requirement.
I don't even think the newer modern consoles could run old massive games, like ArcheAge or even Wildstar. But I think that's an interesting point about sampling.
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Think about exactly why not. Triangle count? Memory footprint? Processing power? It is pretty easy to figure out roughly what the PC equivalent of a console would be, although there are some architectural differences and it would need to be optimized. Let's look at Wildstar's min spec: Memory: 4 GB Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512 MB DDR2) CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 (2x 2.4 GHz) Would it run on a PS5? Memory: 16 GB GDDR6 (shared) Graphics: AMD Radeon RDNA 2 CPU: AMD Ryzen Zen 2 (8x 3.5GHz) That said, a lot of MMOs aren't that well optimized to begin with even for PC, yet Fortnite can run 100 player BR on mobile devices. Design affordances are also often made for the more casual console audience, which could be a whole other topic.
Regardless of whether it's because of "consolization" or whatever; it's important for game devs to set limits on their scope and scale despite what advantages technology offers you. If you lose sight of that, you end up with something like.... Star Citizen.
I believe that Destiny is far worst offender than any other game on this list in "simplifying" mmos: small comun areas, heavy reliense in fast travel and missions in a separated instance that can only be played with a small party. Consoles price to perfromance ratio is not even close. you cant make/buy a pc with the performance of a Series S + peripherals for 250 usd. there is a strong appeal to get a console over a pc: dedicated device, simplified UI, standardized experience. the biggest issue masive games like mmos have on console is population. The market is a lot smaller than pc, and usually there is no crossplay between different platforms. Other huge hurdle is comunication, no keyboard means extreamly limited options.
Whenever i see another "Hold button to click it" bullshit it's always due to console centric UI design. Whenever i see tiny amount of text or descriptions it's usually due to TV centric visibility design. Whenever i see butchered complex systems being simplified to point of unrecognizability it's always in the entries of a series that released on consoles instead of PC only. Can you design good games for both PC and console? Yes Does designing for controller and TV combo causes many horrible side effects when not careful? Also yes Personally i was completely neutral towards consoles for the most part but due to the persistent anti-consumer behavior from console publishers that many console users tend to just eat up and never complain i have changed my stance towards more negative and less tolerant.
It's so hard to develop for lesser hardware, you really have to know how to scale down. Hopefully devs look at steam hardware survey, see that the 1060 and 1650 are the 2nd and 4th most popular cards among PC gamers, and are able to still develop for this lesser platform.
Consoles need to allow mouse and keyboard support across the board. That right there would be a massive boost for FPSs and RTSs could actually be viable on consoles.
Just seems a bit selfish to me. What about the people who find their homes on console MMO's, and always have? All the way back to Phantasy Star Online. Then you have FF14 which you brought up here, which by all rights is a Playstation MMO. Yet for some reason, when the PC demographic is included in an MMO, they immediately claim ownership of it, despite its origins. Console gamers have been dealing with the "PC-ification" of games for the last two gens, due to cross-play prevalence. A good example from my own experience would be Halo Infinite. The very definition of a console shooter, one of the most influential on the modern genre. Then in Infinite, the devs made steps to prioritize the PC shooter/E-sports demographic, taking steps to tamper with the aim assist that the controller has relied on throughout the series history. When games cater towards PC, the console experience is always made lesser for it, always. I just don't think it's right that the PC players always force their own priority on anything they're included in. And I do mean force. If you voice up about it as a console player, the PC community hammers your voice back down. And I say this as a long time WoW player on PC btw, just for clarification, even if I am more console focused.
Console experiences are "made lesser" because they *are* lesser systems. That's how and why that works. If anything you'd want developers to push the envelope for console specs and development to actually force hardware improvements. It wasn't that long ago that folks were bragging about having 1080p on consoles like it was some uber new thing, while the PC crowd literally had that since the 90's. The PC demographic isn't holding back consoles, it's the other way around.
Its because pc players legitimately look down on console players as though they are somehow inherently better or are more important to gaming as a whole.
I feel like the video essay is missing some cool facts to really explain the shortcomings of consoles or why PCs are better equipped. Like, if I spent the same amount of money I'd spend on a console on a PC instead, why would the PC have more massive feeling MMOs?
You wouldn't, nor couldn't really do what you suggested...lolz. The whole meme is that consoles were cheaper, but the thing is a PC is marginally more expensive AND offers far more. The consoles still have a competitive price point, they just sport weaker gear. In fact, you can go read their specs and just do the math yourself right? There is nearly no proof a console MMO has ever even actually achieved "massiveness" anyway.
"we all know what happened to that game"...it became one of the most successful MMOs of all time, according to the developer who created it...he says it made more money than the majority of all of the games he ever did period. Seems weird you are defending console gaming virtuously, using language like "punching bag" because I made a factual argument. It's hard for me to take you seriously after that statement to be honest. You feel very low power level for me. if you join discord maybe ill debate some more @@Seoul_Soldier
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Holy cow the second reply. Was there a third guy who deleted their reply and I missed it? Or wrong comment thread you were replying to? The only thing I was trying to say is that the video could use that extra oomph to make the point you're trying to make. Just pointing out that console MMOs haven't been 'massive' without going into detail on why that may be or why PCs can do so instead just leaves the conclusion without that sense of "Oooh, I learned something" or "Ah, so that's what NS is trying to say. Very interesting". Just more of a "Okay... And?..." I honestly was just doing my best to try and have constructive feedback. ^^'
Tbh im glad console mmo’s turned out the way they are. I’ve played pc mmo’s and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. was worse than the console mmo that I’ve played. FFXI was infinitely more fun than EverQuest and FFXIV was infinitely more fun than WoW. Dragon Quest X on the SWITCH has been more enjoyable than all the previous games combined! Idc if the PC “can do more” congrats. Remind me to bake the pc a cake.
It’s not an argument. They are simply tech junkies and feel that having better specs automatically gets you a better experience when that just isnt always the case. Not to mention that they are in a cult and cannot understand words that go against what their doctrine has told them.
I think controllers are the main culprits of certain games and genres having to be cut or "dumbed down" from PC to consoles, and even for mobile. More than "weakest platform", what's the bare minimum you can expect every player of a specific platform to have in order to play games? For PC, mouse and keyboard, for consoles, one controller, for phones, the touch screen (which, at best, works as two mice). A point of comparison, Street Fighter on the SNES worked fine, the controller had 6 "game" buttons + start and select. On the Mega Drive/Genesis, you'd either have to switch between punches and kicks by pressing start during a fight, or use a 6 button controller. Since mobile games have to rely on finger touches on the screen, that makes certain action games significantly inferior to what could've been done in consoles. Their biggest limitation is screen size, you can't fill the whole screen with buttons, the player needs to see what's going on. Meanwhile, anything that only needs menu navigation usually works just like a PC.
"The age old arguments of cost just don't apply anymore" - what? A sweeping generalization like that needs more than "I was there, trust me bro" to back it up. Low-end PCs may not cost more than the current generation of consoles, but high-end PCs absolutely do, and upgrading PCs regularly to keep them high-end is expensive.
It doesn't have to do with cost that people go for consoles its more ease of use and also 9 times out of 10 if they have friends those friends are console players as well. Not everyone wants to invest their money and time into a PC and doing trouble shooting. Hell there was even a time and still happens once in a while where a game would come out with a bad PC port and the people you have to depend on are not even the devs but random people online. Though I also see the positives of PC gaming such as power, customization and something like steam and the indy scene but I wont ignore the negatives on why some people tend to go to consoles. As you mentioned it yourself Its not like something like the MMO advancement cant happen as console tech does improve as time goes on so they can think bigger as time goes on.
One thing to point out is that thanks to consoles, we have DLC instead of expansion packs, and thanks to consoles MOD support is rare (because mods compete directly with monetization opportunities).
With non local servers, as is often the case with places like Oceania, it's common to have 150-300ms of lag or more. Whether it's PC or console, that seriously changes how you play. If everything is instant, having a third of a second difference is massive. It's not just "dumbing down content" on "less powerful machines"... there is a whole lot more to the world than just one country. It's just annoying that some people, if not whole countries, assume that everyone's online experience is the same. :-(
Why was this so focused on mmos when it's not mentioned in the title? Why not use any other examples? The biggest impart consolization has had on me was after I played Dragon Age Origins and 2 going into Inquisiton, from menus being designed for mouse and very compact to ones that with tabs for everything that were designed to be switched with L2 and R2 and such, it was so jarring and it pretty much put me off enough that I kinda stopped playing at some point.
Consoles arent the problem. Cause if that was the case WOW wouldn't have released as an ugly polygon mess in 2004 The issue is no one wants to try an optimize their game for a platform that dosent have an existing audience for MMORPGs If you want a bigger audience and want more olayers then you will make a comsole port and maybe give them a controler option for a keybord to play with. Theres no more grafic issues if the developers know to prioritize framerstes over making overly detailed models.
All I got to say is they made BDO works on console some how and I’ve put over way to much time into it so there really isn’t any excuse with console combat or limits there is always away to make things work just because they haven’t found away doesn’t mean there isn’t one BDO console proves this even though in my opinion the console version for content is dog shit but it still works.
As an alternate history fan book fan, I want to come at this discussion with that idea. ...what would our games look like if the game console died? --- I think if the console died all the way back in the 16 bit era (Super NES / Famicom, Sega Genesis), virtual worlds could be very different. The big gulf between people with low spec machines playing Solitaire and Minesweeper and high end PC games would likely still exist. I say that because for all consoles to have failed, people would either have had to declare their TV room is sacred and can't be poisoned by the presence of a console, or that they didn't like low-spec gaming. In either case, people with more money to throw in for a dedicated gaming PC + gaming setup would be the majority of video gamers in that world. Kids gathered around a couch playing on the same console would also not exist (controllers not popular!), so I think people would gravitate towards online experiences since lugging those AT boxes around was too annoying for a casual get-together. At that point, the gaming corporations would have focused on keeping the high spec PC owners happy, going bigger and bigger with the games. Interestingly World of Warcraft would be very different or would have lost to EverQuest 2 in that world as well, since the consideration for low-end PC would likely not exist. (again going on the assumption that for some reason, low cost gaming wasn't a thing to destroy the console) --- Any later than that, and the console would have already shown the ability to have a small scope 3D world that is appealing (like action RPGs with simple but action oriented controls), so it gets less certain. We'd have to ask why that alternate history world garbaged their consoles at that point in time, and what games they wanted to play instead of the console ones. --- That said this was just a fun thought experiment I had while watching the video and waiting to load my next batch of laundry in the machine 😊 I think the more gamers the better because of how gaming can get people to think, regardless of which platform you choose: personally I play on mobile and PC+controller so in my own alt-hist worlds, my current gaming modes wouldn't exist!
Unrelated topic, but I love how it has become a meme of people hating games that require you to create an account, while FFXI required like 20 fucking account setup steps
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz without the boost clocks 16 GB of RAM The RDNA 2.0 equivalent of an RTX 2070 or RTX 2070 Super Samsung Evo 980 Pro 1 TB SSD Mate, sorry, no.
But not for the topic in question...massive online RPGs, I am convinced you are literally trolling now. LOL. Consoles have 0 massive online RPGs what is this drivel@@Seoul_Soldier
FFXI is an amazing game, but it's funny you brought up the way "console vs pc" can be shorthand for "m/kb vs controller". The m/kb controller scheme is so bad for that game that despite being a m/kb player for basically everything else, yeah. Use a controller. Keyboard layout was clearly an afterthought. For XIV, I think something you didn't touch upon was how the zone limits also shaped the design and traversal of the game, and when you talk about making a game feel less "massive", that felt like a huge part to me. Even consolized RPGs like TERA had the freedom to walk between zones with any connecting point and no loading screen, if they were on the same continent. XIV maps have vastly expanded and improved over time, but there's still only the connecting tunnels you can use to trigger a loading screen to the next zone. Older PC MMOs like Everquest, which had lots of loading screens between areas, let you walk between zones wherever they connected and without a fadeout. XIV allowing you to fly, but only up to the border of a zone before you have to scoot around for an exit, is an odd compromise...
While I admit I don't have hard evidence to back it up, I think "consolization" also made video games much easier in general. I can already hear a bunch of people screaming "SOULS GAMES!!!" but if we're being honest Souls-likes are only difficult because you are forced to remember attack patterns and practice good timing because the bosses and enemies hit really hard. So, any patient gamer would be at home playing a Souls-like. You would think that with technology advancing, we would be getting "smarter" games but that isn't really the case especially with most popular games. The majority of shooters in 1st or 3rd person for example, either have blind rushing enemies or those that hide behind cover and pop out once in a while. Raising the difficulty only makes them tankier. The major reason for that I would believe is that controllers in general will never be as accurate or consistent as the mouse and keyboard even though there are examples of good console players beating PC gamers with a controller.
Actually souls games aren't even that hard, if you are bad at them you are probably bad at life in general, They take very little skill and patience to complete. Now to be good at them thats another story, and sekiro is just that, but turned up a notch or twenty. Think about it, what skills do souls like games test? Patience, a bit of reaction time, and reading comprehension. Yes the better you are at those skills, the easier the game is, same with life in general. Like sseth said, "You aren't bad at video games, because you are bad at video games. You are bad at video games because you suck at life in general".
I think the current console's should have used a real gpu cpu setup no igpu crap. Am4 board mini atx basic io with 3 pcie lanes one for a amd modded 6600 with 14gb vram and the other nvmes. A real 3 prong power supply 16gb ddr4. Parts replaceable repairable and no soddered on nvme.When that ps5 storage dies the console is sol.
Consoles are on their way out. PS5 has been a joke of a console. Half its exclusives were developed on PS4. Interested to see what happens with Switch 2 but I want Nintendo to bite the bullet and start putting games on PC already.
There is no war: PC Master Race is unbeatable, All goes to Singularity of PC Gaming! Only Nintendo insists into avoiding PC, but even they will give in to PC in the end.
The consolization of gaming has degraded the optimization of the PC version of the game in order to port them onto consoles, seem multiple times where a great PC game becomes far worse over time(Subnautica as a big example, major downgrade in all aspects) when it's reworked to fit console releases. Subnautica was playing smoothly on old GPUs in 2017, far stronger GPUs in 2024..Not to mention multiple reworks of in-game vehicles, pop-in etc.
Gta online I think is an interesting compromise between pc and console. The gameplay is pretty complex on mouse and keyboard, but very intuitive on controller. What I am saying is that I think developers are underestimating controllers, they forget that controllers are very good at certain things, and not so good at others.
Great point, and I played and enjoyed it on both. I really think my whole argument starts to slowly fade away (with technology and experience on consoles) as long as controller support works really well...meanwhile I have people arguing me in the comments when no MASSIVE online RPG exists on consoles...sigh
@@nerdSlayerstudioss I do think overall you are right though; console is being used as a crutch to not advance the mmo market. Controllers have haptic feedback now, so honestly we are long overdue for a shakeup in gameplay or something. I pray for the day when we can have un-compromised game-play and un-compromised community.
One problem with pushing the limits is that it, by definition, limits the potential audience - which can be a hard sell to investors. They mostly seem to prefer graphics tech demos to gameplay tech demos anyway. So all we need is a group of independently wealthy developers and we’ll be set, piece of cake!
I heard there was a crowdfunded game that offered a huge game space and granular game mechanics. People complained that it didn't complete its development cycle fast enough and trashed it in the online forums. then went back to playing seasonal console offerings full of reskinned assets.
There's more than just consoles holding the advancements of massiveness back. It's in general old or slower hardware even in PCs. I'm sure we could do a lot more if the focus was on the newest top hardware, but how many people would actually be able to play a game like that?
I think the controller argument also makes a good point for "accessability". Since games like Diablo and Torchlight are available on consoles, there is also controller support on PC, which makes these game (at least for me) much more enjoyable. Moving, attacking and kiting is so much easier, since targeting and moving away are now two different sticks, instead of one mouse.
Definitely one of the weaker aspects of mouse movement isometrics. Last Epoch has a really good system in place as a lot of skills, especially melee skills, can auto target nearest enemy to the player. I hope they expand on the system to allow something like that for all skills.
I'm mainly a pc gamer but I feel like having mmos on consoles is necessary and expected at this point for long term success especially since they're way more powerful than ever. Accessibility is so important and if you don't get your game to the widest possible audience you can't keep up with all the already long established games with years of content because the market is so filled with options now.
If it's needed, why can I list 20 games that never launched on console? Genuinely what is this dumb argument? You are Korean? How? Cause most Korean MMOs dont launch on console...you would think you would know that lol@@Seoul_Soldier
@@nerdSlayerstudiossI wasn't trying to insult or create an argument but add my personal opinion in the comments. To clarify there's always exceptions and I was stretching calling it "necessary" but I meant for large scale global sucess it seems to really help. PS I'm American and really love your content. I know words in writting can convey meaning differently than intended so my bad for any misunderstanding❤
I'm not sure I understand the point of the video. While I understand and agree that a game as to be adapted depending on it's controle scheme and hardware, It's by no mean a insurmontable wall. First console are powerfull enough to run most mmo periode if the dev actually tried to optimize in a similar fashion than for weaker pc, aka really lowering the graphics. They don't coz that wouldn't sell, mmo already looks dated and making it worth is not really a marketable move. Second the price doesn't really matter anymore ? What ? Like you could play the massive mmo with 200 players in a raid on a 500$ pc... There is still a massive gap in price and in simplicity. A console is made for gaming, people buy it for that, a lot of people do not want to buy a 1.5k pc (minimum) on top of having their work station being there play station. Third I do agree that if we want a game to push the limit in scale, pc is the place to look at but if we want to see innovation, both pc and console are worth looking after. Limitation often brings innovation after all. Overall I just fell this video quite empty, no really argument just X was worth because of it and that's it. FF11 could replicate the ff feelings without probleme but ff14 couldn't because of console seems quite... incomplete. Now usually I listen to your video for the history of a games and I never really cared about the rest so maybe it was just not for me.
Your argument doesn't make any sense, and when you say "its not an unsurmountable wall"...then why hasn't it been done...period? Like a single time? Sigh. "FF11 could replicate the ff feelings without probleme but ff14 couldn't because of console seems quite... incomplete. " was never stated at any point, nor even implied. $1.5k PC price makes no sense, like literally at all. Why even use that as a basis in this argument? It makes me think you aren't being serious about anything. You can play the massive games with a $500 PC, I did it...I was there...ROFL. And your ultimate conclusion is "limitation brings innovation" with NOTHING to show for it...you don't even have a single example lol. Can my audience stop upvoting nonsense like this? It's only going to result in me clowning this crap. Not a single virtual world on consoles is massive.
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Not massive morpg were an innovation. If all you want is BIG then yeah i guess console don't have any. Although they can, if a 500e pc can, a console could just downgrade de graph like a pc and work. It just suck. That being said no good massive and good looking MMO can run smoothly on cheap hardware. I know it, I tried. This kind of "arguments" are kindergarden lvl but alright let's use them. You said word for word "what is unique about these two titles (PSO and FF11) the most is that the fact they were originaly created with and for console and mind yet it didn't seems to hurt their gameplay execution in anyway; in fact the fact that they were specialised for console is what made them so successful" so my question is: why can FF11 have a great gp while FF14 problems are due to consoles ? Is your point that controller make it hard to have as many usable spell ? That they make it easier, dumber coz consoleplayer are more casual ? What is actually being held back because of console. You don't say it, you don't explain anything so I can't agree with it even if it's right. I don't really think there is a point to prove that limitation brings innovation since it's true in every field but alright. Xbox where not powerfull enought for one of the elder scrolls (don't remember wich) so they found a new way of loading the game were only visible and nearby part would load and the rest would not (i do not know the exact details but you can do your research if you care). As for why the wall hasn't been surmounted, well coz it hasn't. As I explained they would need to sacrifice marketabability for it wich they do not want to or make a console exclusive mmo wich they also don't want to. Money is king at the end of the day and what has too much potential to hurt the revenu will not be done by big corpo and mmo made by small teams well, it's a clue like you like to say. I didn't gave example coz I am not that into it tbh, I simply watched a VOD from a contain creator i enjoyed and found myslef surprised to find it pretty empty and uninteressting. So I just gave my honest feedback to express that feeling in hope to help or have somenone point the part I were wrong. That is why I started by making it clear I felt like I did not understood the point of your VOD. I think the objectif was that PC MMO where hurt coz publisher wanted to release them on console at the same times forcing the dev to downgrade de gp and massiveness of it to allow console to run them with sufficent graphics and a controller. But what was said in the vod never felt really developed to make me follow you trough your reasoning. It felt more like rambling than enything else. It think I kept my comment pretty polite and as clear as possible so I'm quite surprised to see you reacting like that. Especially when there is like 8 likes to it. But i guess you either where on a bad day or can't really take criticisim. I honestly hope for you it's not the second option but I can't really care. Btw I didn't even gave you a down vote or anything, watched the entire vod and gave you a comment so at worst all I did is give you a view. No need to get all pissy about it. I know you probably feel proud in what you do and get criticised on it is activating instincual fight or flight but you are not a beast.
So, in summation, devs had to consider hardware limitations when designing games for console they otherwise wouldn't need to for purely PC. Up next, water is wet.
My main gripe with any platform, PC or Console, are exclusives. There are games only on PC, there are games only on xbox, and games only on playstation. I hate this. Gaming is ultimately about bringing people together, and exclusivity does the opposite, it can restrict some people from accessing games, and sows division in the gaming community.
glad you got your channel back, i was very confused to have seen a crypto scam stream coming from this channel the other day at work and was afraid we'd never see any of your old videos ever again as it seemed theyd been deleted. welcome back, excited for the future!
Well the argument about the cost still applies I think. With the Series S we know there are many people out there who were able to upgrade and enter current gen because of its low prize, so while it might not make sense to a youtuber in a 1st world country, there are still many people around the globe who's best shot at gaming might be cheaper alternative of a current gen console. As for me, I was a PC player my whole life (played a shlt tone of wow for well over a decade) but I switched to consoles few years back and I don't want to go back to PC, don't want to say never, but as of right now, console gaming is just so convinient compared to PC its crazy. I get home after a long day of work, I'll press one button on my controler co boot up my console and within seconds Im already in game, no hassle, no need to update drivers, to have multiple launchers, all up to date, just so I can download something only to find out my graphics card has an issue with a certain game since a certain update. I'm aware my consoles won't be able to compete with higher midrange pcs but thats a sacrifice Im willing to take for my sanity :D
@@nerdSlayerstudioss yes, I did that for my case but I also did mention how the Series S in particular gave others the option to upgrade to a current gen after years of not being able to. For me its convinience but there are other around the globe who just can't afford a proper rig. Reason xoulc be either being from a 3rd world country or perhaps even becoming a parent and saving every penny
Consoles have been keeping gaming down since the PS2, sure back then a Playstation 1 was cheap compared to a Pentium 4 alone, but nowadays? no, the actual hardware on consoles is painfully outdated before the damn thing is released, a PS5 pro being the equivalent of a budget system from 7 years ago, I'm still not sure if consoles are running x64 bits native nowadays and holy sh** optimisation for PC games (especially "port") have been atrocious in the past 6 to 7 years. I reached a point were I'm confident to say, in the open that if you are older than 25 and actively purchase a new console (save mobility ones like Switch or Deck, etc...) you're actively damaging the entire community as a whole, especially since most console games are running on "Always online", "can't trade the CD with friends anymore" and giving incentive to more corporate lording over gaming as a whole.
Have you ever heard of the MMO Earth and Beyond? It's a sci-fi MMO I remember my dad playing for a little while back around 2001. My fondest memory was screwing around on a second character he made for me waaaay past my bedtime lol. I don't really remember much about it, I just absolutely loved spaceships.
It doesn't help that MMO are rather RAM hungry and console struggle on that part. Modern console can deal with it easily on 1080 but any higher and it start causing problem due to VRAM being shared between CPU/GPU.
Anybody who has played morrowind and saw the massive regression that Elder Scrolls went through with skyrim is very aware of how bad "consolization" is.
Consolization is one of the main reason for the near-extinction state of the Real-Time Strategy genre. Little experiments like GrimGrimoire, Halo Wars and Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings don't cut it.
What makes you think that's the main reason? Most RTS fans are older gamers, so it just seems like the genre isn't appealing to a younger demographic. I'd even argue it's not near-extinction just not as popular as it once was. There's really nothing wrong with that. I imagine with something like TW warhammer 40k, we will see a pique in interest in the genre again.
@@aersla1731 Money drives every part of the market in this industry. Young people are not introduced to the genre because the industry doesn't introduce them to the genre. And the industry doesn't introduce them to the genre because the genre can't be made for the majority of gaming devices on the market. That's bad for business. Note I didn't say there's anything "wrong" with that. And TW W40k is not a RTS game.
@@aquapendulum I just meant that I don't believe the genre is "near extinction" as you put it. I just think it's niche and there's usually a market for niche things. I didn't say you said something was wrong with it, I just said it not being as popular as it used to be is fine with me. As long as RTS fans exist the genre will continue to exist, even if as time goes on it will continue being more and more niche.
@@aersla1731 Don't fight over semantics. What you mean by "niche" and what I mean by "near extinction" could be the exact same thing. Ask what the other person mean when they use a term first before voicing disagreement.
Start learning a new language in 3 weeks with Babbel! Click the link in the chat or use my link bit.ly/49jqaoS to get up to 60% OFF a lifetime subscription!
Earliest I've ever been. Love your detective.
I would love to hear your thoughts on mobile games, I’m old school 53yo and was a kid when Atari hit the market so I’ve been around for this whole revolution, but mobile games seem to be a bridge too far for me. They all seem the same. What do you think? ✊🏾💪🏾
Welcome Back!
I'm more concerned about the corporatizing of the gaming landscape than any genre specific behavior. I would say the mass layoffs and live service plague are direct results of this.
Nah they just fired bunch of incompetent people because they over hired during COVID.
That resulted largely from shrinking virtual worlds and commodizing them to make more money, sorry but issues like this actually go hand and hand. The gaming landscape has been corporate for over 20 years, it's just now people like you notice it more because its affecting multiple popular mainstream games.
@Nerdslayergaming No, there was definitely a _massive_ shift - in the industry as a whole, not just mmos - that started in the early 10's. Saying it's been like this for over 20 years is disingenuous, at best.
@@rhael42Just because you didn't notice it before doesn't mean it wasn't there, you imbecile.
@CannedCoochiecouldn't have said this better myself, also we should not forget that questionable market practices have also been around almost since games have existed
As an MMO designer for the past 15 years, you always have to build for your minimum system requirements. This can be a specific hardware spec on PC, or a specific console, or even mobile device. The lower the hardware specs of the devices you support however, the more players you can attract, so for the sake of funding a game it is always a tradeoff between hardware capabilities and potential playerbase. Sometimes the limiting factor isn't even consoles, because your minimum PC spec is lower than what current generation consoles provide. Apart from input and UI considerations (which you can just make an alternate version of like FFXIV), modern consoles aren't too limiting in terms of MMO development anymore, unless you're targeting pretty high end hardware which means you probably won't have enough players anyway.
Here is an exercise. Check the specs for the console of your choice and then take a look at the latest Steam Hardware & Software Survey. See what percentage of Steam players would be able to play a game that had the same minimum requirements for PC as the specs for a console. What you will generally see is that there are quite a few players using lower end hardware who won't be able to play a game that uses console specs as a minimum requirement.
I don't even think the newer modern consoles could run old massive games, like ArcheAge or even Wildstar. But I think that's an interesting point about sampling.
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Think about exactly why not. Triangle count? Memory footprint? Processing power? It is pretty easy to figure out roughly what the PC equivalent of a console would be, although there are some architectural differences and it would need to be optimized.
Let's look at Wildstar's min spec:
Memory: 4 GB
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512 MB DDR2)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 (2x 2.4 GHz)
Would it run on a PS5?
Memory: 16 GB GDDR6 (shared)
Graphics: AMD Radeon RDNA 2
CPU: AMD Ryzen Zen 2 (8x 3.5GHz)
That said, a lot of MMOs aren't that well optimized to begin with even for PC, yet Fortnite can run 100 player BR on mobile devices.
Design affordances are also often made for the more casual console audience, which could be a whole other topic.
❤
Regardless of whether it's because of "consolization" or whatever; it's important for game devs to set limits on their scope and scale despite what advantages technology offers you.
If you lose sight of that, you end up with something like.... Star Citizen.
Glad to see you got your channel back!
I’m more of a board games kinda guy myself.
Board games are 🔥🔥🔥
Get Tabletop Simulator
I believe that Destiny is far worst offender than any other game on this list in "simplifying" mmos: small comun areas, heavy reliense in fast travel and missions in a separated instance that can only be played with a small party.
Consoles price to perfromance ratio is not even close. you cant make/buy a pc with the performance of a Series S + peripherals for 250 usd. there is a strong appeal to get a console over a pc: dedicated device, simplified UI, standardized experience.
the biggest issue masive games like mmos have on console is population. The market is a lot smaller than pc, and usually there is no crossplay between different platforms. Other huge hurdle is comunication, no keyboard means extreamly limited options.
I do love nerdslayers one man war for the 1 million persist online games lol
lmao
He LIVES! Glad to see the channel again! 🎉😂
So glad you got your channel back man! I love your videos
Whenever i see another "Hold button to click it" bullshit it's always due to console centric UI design. Whenever i see tiny amount of text or descriptions it's usually due to TV centric visibility design. Whenever i see butchered complex systems being simplified to point of unrecognizability it's always in the entries of a series that released on consoles instead of PC only.
Can you design good games for both PC and console? Yes
Does designing for controller and TV combo causes many horrible side effects when not careful? Also yes
Personally i was completely neutral towards consoles for the most part but due to the persistent anti-consumer behavior from console publishers that many console users tend to just eat up and never complain i have changed my stance towards more negative and less tolerant.
It's so hard to develop for lesser hardware, you really have to know how to scale down. Hopefully devs look at steam hardware survey, see that the 1060 and 1650 are the 2nd and 4th most popular cards among PC gamers, and are able to still develop for this lesser platform.
As PC player, I hope every single game will be released on PC in future. I know that will be long, but I can wait.
Consoles need to allow mouse and keyboard support across the board. That right there would be a massive boost for FPSs and RTSs could actually be viable on consoles.
WOOOOO WELCOME BACK BROTHER
Just seems a bit selfish to me. What about the people who find their homes on console MMO's, and always have? All the way back to Phantasy Star Online. Then you have FF14 which you brought up here, which by all rights is a Playstation MMO. Yet for some reason, when the PC demographic is included in an MMO, they immediately claim ownership of it, despite its origins.
Console gamers have been dealing with the "PC-ification" of games for the last two gens, due to cross-play prevalence. A good example from my own experience would be Halo Infinite. The very definition of a console shooter, one of the most influential on the modern genre. Then in Infinite, the devs made steps to prioritize the PC shooter/E-sports demographic, taking steps to tamper with the aim assist that the controller has relied on throughout the series history. When games cater towards PC, the console experience is always made lesser for it, always.
I just don't think it's right that the PC players always force their own priority on anything they're included in. And I do mean force. If you voice up about it as a console player, the PC community hammers your voice back down.
And I say this as a long time WoW player on PC btw, just for clarification, even if I am more console focused.
Console experiences are "made lesser" because they *are* lesser systems. That's how and why that works. If anything you'd want developers to push the envelope for console specs and development to actually force hardware improvements. It wasn't that long ago that folks were bragging about having 1080p on consoles like it was some uber new thing, while the PC crowd literally had that since the 90's. The PC demographic isn't holding back consoles, it's the other way around.
Its because pc players legitimately look down on console players as though they are somehow inherently better or are more important to gaming as a whole.
I feel like the video essay is missing some cool facts to really explain the shortcomings of consoles or why PCs are better equipped. Like, if I spent the same amount of money I'd spend on a console on a PC instead, why would the PC have more massive feeling MMOs?
You wouldn't, nor couldn't really do what you suggested...lolz. The whole meme is that consoles were cheaper, but the thing is a PC is marginally more expensive AND offers far more. The consoles still have a competitive price point, they just sport weaker gear. In fact, you can go read their specs and just do the math yourself right? There is nearly no proof a console MMO has ever even actually achieved "massiveness" anyway.
"we all know what happened to that game"...it became one of the most successful MMOs of all time, according to the developer who created it...he says it made more money than the majority of all of the games he ever did period. Seems weird you are defending console gaming virtuously, using language like "punching bag" because I made a factual argument. It's hard for me to take you seriously after that statement to be honest. You feel very low power level for me. if you join discord maybe ill debate some more @@Seoul_Soldier
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Holy cow the second reply. Was there a third guy who deleted their reply and I missed it? Or wrong comment thread you were replying to?
The only thing I was trying to say is that the video could use that extra oomph to make the point you're trying to make. Just pointing out that console MMOs haven't been 'massive' without going into detail on why that may be or why PCs can do so instead just leaves the conclusion without that sense of "Oooh, I learned something" or "Ah, so that's what NS is trying to say. Very interesting". Just more of a "Okay... And?..."
I honestly was just doing my best to try and have constructive feedback. ^^'
Tbh im glad console mmo’s turned out the way they are. I’ve played pc mmo’s and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. was worse than the console mmo that I’ve played. FFXI was infinitely more fun than EverQuest and FFXIV was infinitely more fun than WoW. Dragon Quest X on the SWITCH has been more enjoyable than all the previous games combined! Idc if the PC “can do more” congrats. Remind me to bake the pc a cake.
Jokes on you it's all just mobile games now
I never understood the argument that consoles are somehow holding PCs back and that PCs should be the only thing people are gaming on.
It’s not an argument. They are simply tech junkies and feel that having better specs automatically gets you a better experience when that just isnt always the case. Not to mention that they are in a cult and cannot understand words that go against what their doctrine has told them.
Glad your back up! and with a youtube new record. at least they're getting better at fixing these things.
I think controllers are the main culprits of certain games and genres having to be cut or "dumbed down" from PC to consoles, and even for mobile. More than "weakest platform", what's the bare minimum you can expect every player of a specific platform to have in order to play games? For PC, mouse and keyboard, for consoles, one controller, for phones, the touch screen (which, at best, works as two mice). A point of comparison, Street Fighter on the SNES worked fine, the controller had 6 "game" buttons + start and select. On the Mega Drive/Genesis, you'd either have to switch between punches and kicks by pressing start during a fight, or use a 6 button controller.
Since mobile games have to rely on finger touches on the screen, that makes certain action games significantly inferior to what could've been done in consoles. Their biggest limitation is screen size, you can't fill the whole screen with buttons, the player needs to see what's going on. Meanwhile, anything that only needs menu navigation usually works just like a PC.
"The age old arguments of cost just don't apply anymore" - what? A sweeping generalization like that needs more than "I was there, trust me bro" to back it up. Low-end PCs may not cost more than the current generation of consoles, but high-end PCs absolutely do, and upgrading PCs regularly to keep them high-end is expensive.
It doesn't have to do with cost that people go for consoles its more ease of use and also 9 times out of 10 if they have friends those friends are console players as well. Not everyone wants to invest their money and time into a PC and doing trouble shooting. Hell there was even a time and still happens once in a while where a game would come out with a bad PC port and the people you have to depend on are not even the devs but random people online. Though I also see the positives of PC gaming such as power, customization and something like steam and the indy scene but I wont ignore the negatives on why some people tend to go to consoles. As you mentioned it yourself Its not like something like the MMO advancement cant happen as console tech does improve as time goes on so they can think bigger as time goes on.
One thing to point out is that thanks to consoles, we have DLC instead of expansion packs, and thanks to consoles MOD support is rare (because mods compete directly with monetization opportunities).
I think you put the wrong word in quotes. Should be "wars".
I loved Dust 514, I wish it would come back
Holy Shit, you just sent me back and unlocked a secret memory with that one sentence.
Thanks for that, I shall now lament with you, Dust 514 is gone.
2 videos a day, what a banger Nerd. Great video btw
glad to have you back lol
With non local servers, as is often the case with places like Oceania, it's common to have 150-300ms of lag or more. Whether it's PC or console, that seriously changes how you play. If everything is instant, having a third of a second difference is massive. It's not just "dumbing down content" on "less powerful machines"... there is a whole lot more to the world than just one country. It's just annoying that some people, if not whole countries, assume that everyone's online experience is the same. :-(
To be clear...nobody's confused about that. Oceania getting screwed server wise is pretty normal
Why was this so focused on mmos when it's not mentioned in the title? Why not use any other examples? The biggest impart consolization has had on me was after I played Dragon Age Origins and 2 going into Inquisiton, from menus being designed for mouse and very compact to ones that with tabs for everything that were designed to be switched with L2 and R2 and such, it was so jarring and it pretty much put me off enough that I kinda stopped playing at some point.
Consoles arent the problem. Cause if that was the case WOW wouldn't have released as an ugly polygon mess in 2004
The issue is no one wants to try an optimize their game for a platform that dosent have an existing audience for MMORPGs
If you want a bigger audience and want more olayers then you will make a comsole port and maybe give them a controler option for a keybord to play with. Theres no more grafic issues if the developers know to prioritize framerstes over making overly detailed models.
DC Universe Online?! 🤔
All I got to say is they made BDO works on console some how and I’ve put over way to much time into it so there really isn’t any excuse with console combat or limits there is always away to make things work just because they haven’t found away doesn’t mean there isn’t one BDO console proves this even though in my opinion the console version for content is dog shit but it still works.
Under rated channel
I used both personally, but yeah games can be affected by being condensed for consoles
As an alternate history fan book fan, I want to come at this discussion with that idea. ...what would our games look like if the game console died?
---
I think if the console died all the way back in the 16 bit era (Super NES / Famicom, Sega Genesis), virtual worlds could be very different. The big gulf between people with low spec machines playing Solitaire and Minesweeper and high end PC games would likely still exist. I say that because for all consoles to have failed, people would either have had to declare their TV room is sacred and can't be poisoned by the presence of a console, or that they didn't like low-spec gaming. In either case, people with more money to throw in for a dedicated gaming PC + gaming setup would be the majority of video gamers in that world.
Kids gathered around a couch playing on the same console would also not exist (controllers not popular!), so I think people would gravitate towards online experiences since lugging those AT boxes around was too annoying for a casual get-together.
At that point, the gaming corporations would have focused on keeping the high spec PC owners happy, going bigger and bigger with the games. Interestingly World of Warcraft would be very different or would have lost to EverQuest 2 in that world as well, since the consideration for low-end PC would likely not exist. (again going on the assumption that for some reason, low cost gaming wasn't a thing to destroy the console)
---
Any later than that, and the console would have already shown the ability to have a small scope 3D world that is appealing (like action RPGs with simple but action oriented controls), so it gets less certain. We'd have to ask why that alternate history world garbaged their consoles at that point in time, and what games they wanted to play instead of the console ones.
---
That said this was just a fun thought experiment I had while watching the video and waiting to load my next batch of laundry in the machine 😊 I think the more gamers the better because of how gaming can get people to think, regardless of which platform you choose: personally I play on mobile and PC+controller so in my own alt-hist worlds, my current gaming modes wouldn't exist!
Oh, yes, another video about console vs pc. Sure, I'm leaving my 1200 games library on consoles just to play on PC.
I love chicken tendies
honestly, me too
Me too, especially dipped in barbecue sauce.
alright so uhh tendies gang
Detective Dreams
2 videos so soon! Impressive work Detective
Unrelated topic, but I love how it has become a meme of people hating games that require you to create an account, while FFXI required like 20 fucking account setup steps
worst part about the game by farrrrrrrrr
So are saying mmo should not come to consoles?
There's always Star Citizen, pushing for massiveness.
love your vids man ♥
Consoldlers finally find out who the final boss really is.
lmao
Was this made awhile ago? Ps5/Series X is more powerful than the average PC by quite a margin so it kinda doesn't make sense...
There is 0 way of knowing on what the average PC specs are.
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz without the boost clocks
16 GB of RAM
The RDNA 2.0 equivalent of an RTX 2070 or RTX 2070 Super
Samsung Evo 980 Pro 1 TB SSD
Mate, sorry, no.
But not for the topic in question...massive online RPGs, I am convinced you are literally trolling now. LOL. Consoles have 0 massive online RPGs what is this drivel@@Seoul_Soldier
FFXI is an amazing game, but it's funny you brought up the way "console vs pc" can be shorthand for "m/kb vs controller". The m/kb controller scheme is so bad for that game that despite being a m/kb player for basically everything else, yeah. Use a controller. Keyboard layout was clearly an afterthought.
For XIV, I think something you didn't touch upon was how the zone limits also shaped the design and traversal of the game, and when you talk about making a game feel less "massive", that felt like a huge part to me. Even consolized RPGs like TERA had the freedom to walk between zones with any connecting point and no loading screen, if they were on the same continent. XIV maps have vastly expanded and improved over time, but there's still only the connecting tunnels you can use to trigger a loading screen to the next zone. Older PC MMOs like Everquest, which had lots of loading screens between areas, let you walk between zones wherever they connected and without a fadeout. XIV allowing you to fly, but only up to the border of a zone before you have to scoot around for an exit, is an odd compromise...
Good points
While I admit I don't have hard evidence to back it up, I think "consolization" also made video games much easier in general. I can already hear a bunch of people screaming "SOULS GAMES!!!" but if we're being honest Souls-likes are only difficult because you are forced to remember attack patterns and practice good timing because the bosses and enemies hit really hard. So, any patient gamer would be at home playing a Souls-like.
You would think that with technology advancing, we would be getting "smarter" games but that isn't really the case especially with most popular games. The majority of shooters in 1st or 3rd person for example, either have blind rushing enemies or those that hide behind cover and pop out once in a while. Raising the difficulty only makes them tankier. The major reason for that I would believe is that controllers in general will never be as accurate or consistent as the mouse and keyboard even though there are examples of good console players beating PC gamers with a controller.
Actually souls games aren't even that hard, if you are bad at them you are probably bad at life in general, They take very little skill and patience to complete. Now to be good at them thats another story, and sekiro is just that, but turned up a notch or twenty. Think about it, what skills do souls like games test? Patience, a bit of reaction time, and reading comprehension. Yes the better you are at those skills, the easier the game is, same with life in general. Like sseth said, "You aren't bad at video games, because you are bad at video games. You are bad at video games because you suck at life in general".
ONE GAME
I DON'T KNOW WHY
I think the current console's should have used a real gpu cpu setup no igpu crap. Am4 board mini atx basic io with 3 pcie lanes one for a amd modded 6600 with 14gb vram and the other nvmes. A real 3 prong power supply 16gb ddr4.
Parts replaceable repairable and no soddered on nvme.When that ps5 storage dies the console is sol.
comment for youtube to see this video has interaction and suggest it to more people
I used my PS5 avidly until I got a gaming PC last year. Then I stopped using my PS5. lol
For PC superiority is enough to say that they make console games on pc 🗿
Consoles are still king lol
Consoles are on their way out. PS5 has been a joke of a console. Half its exclusives were developed on PS4. Interested to see what happens with Switch 2 but I want Nintendo to bite the bullet and start putting games on PC already.
The real console war is AMD vs Nvidia.
yep, considering that's what the machines use too
Hahaha! WTF is this new voice about?
There is no war: PC Master Race is unbeatable, All goes to Singularity of PC Gaming! Only Nintendo insists into avoiding PC, but even they will give in to PC in the end.
The consolization of gaming has degraded the optimization of the PC version of the game in order to port them onto consoles, seem multiple times where a great PC game becomes far worse over time(Subnautica as a big example, major downgrade in all aspects) when it's reworked to fit console releases. Subnautica was playing smoothly on old GPUs in 2017, far stronger GPUs in 2024..Not to mention multiple reworks of in-game vehicles, pop-in etc.
First
Gta online I think is an interesting compromise between pc and console.
The gameplay is pretty complex on mouse and keyboard, but very intuitive on controller.
What I am saying is that I think developers are underestimating controllers, they forget that controllers are very good at certain things, and not so good at others.
Great point, and I played and enjoyed it on both. I really think my whole argument starts to slowly fade away (with technology and experience on consoles) as long as controller support works really well...meanwhile I have people arguing me in the comments when no MASSIVE online RPG exists on consoles...sigh
@@nerdSlayerstudioss
I do think overall you are right though; console is being used as a crutch to not advance the mmo market.
Controllers have haptic feedback now, so honestly we are long overdue for a shakeup in gameplay or something.
I pray for the day when we can have un-compromised game-play and un-compromised community.
I love chicken tendies
One problem with pushing the limits is that it, by definition, limits the potential audience - which can be a hard sell to investors. They mostly seem to prefer graphics tech demos to gameplay tech demos anyway.
So all we need is a group of independently wealthy developers and we’ll be set, piece of cake!
I heard there was a crowdfunded game that offered a huge game space and granular game mechanics. People complained that it didn't complete its development cycle fast enough and trashed it in the online forums. then went back to playing seasonal console offerings full of reskinned assets.
There's more than just consoles holding the advancements of massiveness back. It's in general old or slower hardware even in PCs. I'm sure we could do a lot more if the focus was on the newest top hardware, but how many people would actually be able to play a game like that?
Not enough to really warrant that kind of investment I would think and then that product would immediately become dated.
I think the controller argument also makes a good point for "accessability". Since games like Diablo and Torchlight are available on consoles, there is also controller support on PC, which makes these game (at least for me) much more enjoyable. Moving, attacking and kiting is so much easier, since targeting and moving away are now two different sticks, instead of one mouse.
Definitely one of the weaker aspects of mouse movement isometrics. Last Epoch has a really good system in place as a lot of skills, especially melee skills, can auto target nearest enemy to the player. I hope they expand on the system to allow something like that for all skills.
I can't for the life of me see how someone prefers playing Diablo on a controller.
Glad Bro's channel is back online and up!!!
Hey Nerdslayer. Fuck Bitcoin. Glad you're back
Thank goodness the channel is back!
Glad to see you’re back!
Eso has the best combat in the elder scrolls, what are you on? Skyrim combat is straight ass.
I'm mainly a pc gamer but I feel like having mmos on consoles is necessary and expected at this point for long term success especially since they're way more powerful than ever. Accessibility is so important and if you don't get your game to the widest possible audience you can't keep up with all the already long established games with years of content because the market is so filled with options now.
If it's needed, why can I list 20 games that never launched on console? Genuinely what is this dumb argument? You are Korean? How? Cause most Korean MMOs dont launch on console...you would think you would know that lol@@Seoul_Soldier
@@nerdSlayerstudiossI wasn't trying to insult or create an argument but add my personal opinion in the comments. To clarify there's always exceptions and I was stretching calling it "necessary" but I meant for large scale global sucess it seems to really help.
PS I'm American and really love your content. I know words in writting can convey meaning differently than intended so my bad for any misunderstanding❤
@@cas6382don't apologize he just can't handle criticism
people at rockstar should really take notes
Ah the Sega Dreamcast. It was the bane of countless phonelines.
I'm not sure I understand the point of the video. While I understand and agree that a game as to be adapted depending on it's controle scheme and hardware, It's by no mean a insurmontable wall. First console are powerfull enough to run most mmo periode if the dev actually tried to optimize in a similar fashion than for weaker pc, aka really lowering the graphics. They don't coz that wouldn't sell, mmo already looks dated and making it worth is not really a marketable move. Second the price doesn't really matter anymore ? What ? Like you could play the massive mmo with 200 players in a raid on a 500$ pc... There is still a massive gap in price and in simplicity. A console is made for gaming, people buy it for that, a lot of people do not want to buy a 1.5k pc (minimum) on top of having their work station being there play station. Third I do agree that if we want a game to push the limit in scale, pc is the place to look at but if we want to see innovation, both pc and console are worth looking after. Limitation often brings innovation after all.
Overall I just fell this video quite empty, no really argument just X was worth because of it and that's it. FF11 could replicate the ff feelings without probleme but ff14 couldn't because of console seems quite... incomplete.
Now usually I listen to your video for the history of a games and I never really cared about the rest so maybe it was just not for me.
Your argument doesn't make any sense, and when you say "its not an unsurmountable wall"...then why hasn't it been done...period? Like a single time? Sigh.
"FF11 could replicate the ff feelings without probleme but ff14 couldn't because of console seems quite... incomplete. " was never stated at any point, nor even implied. $1.5k PC price makes no sense, like literally at all. Why even use that as a basis in this argument? It makes me think you aren't being serious about anything. You can play the massive games with a $500 PC, I did it...I was there...ROFL.
And your ultimate conclusion is "limitation brings innovation" with NOTHING to show for it...you don't even have a single example lol. Can my audience stop upvoting nonsense like this? It's only going to result in me clowning this crap. Not a single virtual world on consoles is massive.
@@nerdSlayerstudioss Not massive morpg were an innovation. If all you want is BIG then yeah i guess console don't have any. Although they can, if a 500e pc can, a console could just downgrade de graph like a pc and work. It just suck. That being said no good massive and good looking MMO can run smoothly on cheap hardware. I know it, I tried. This kind of "arguments" are kindergarden lvl but alright let's use them.
You said word for word "what is unique about these two titles (PSO and FF11) the most is that the fact they were originaly created with and for console and mind yet it didn't seems to hurt their gameplay execution in anyway; in fact the fact that they were specialised for console is what made them so successful" so my question is: why can FF11 have a great gp while FF14 problems are due to consoles ? Is your point that controller make it hard to have as many usable spell ? That they make it easier, dumber coz consoleplayer are more casual ? What is actually being held back because of console. You don't say it, you don't explain anything so I can't agree with it even if it's right.
I don't really think there is a point to prove that limitation brings innovation since it's true in every field but alright. Xbox where not powerfull enought for one of the elder scrolls (don't remember wich) so they found a new way of loading the game were only visible and nearby part would load and the rest would not (i do not know the exact details but you can do your research if you care).
As for why the wall hasn't been surmounted, well coz it hasn't. As I explained they would need to sacrifice marketabability for it wich they do not want to or make a console exclusive mmo wich they also don't want to. Money is king at the end of the day and what has too much potential to hurt the revenu will not be done by big corpo and mmo made by small teams well, it's a clue like you like to say.
I didn't gave example coz I am not that into it tbh, I simply watched a VOD from a contain creator i enjoyed and found myslef surprised to find it pretty empty and uninteressting. So I just gave my honest feedback to express that feeling in hope to help or have somenone point the part I were wrong. That is why I started by making it clear I felt like I did not understood the point of your VOD. I think the objectif was that PC MMO where hurt coz publisher wanted to release them on console at the same times forcing the dev to downgrade de gp and massiveness of it to allow console to run them with sufficent graphics and a controller. But what was said in the vod never felt really developed to make me follow you trough your reasoning. It felt more like rambling than enything else.
It think I kept my comment pretty polite and as clear as possible so I'm quite surprised to see you reacting like that. Especially when there is like 8 likes to it. But i guess you either where on a bad day or can't really take criticisim. I honestly hope for you it's not the second option but I can't really care.
Btw I didn't even gave you a down vote or anything, watched the entire vod and gave you a comment so at worst all I did is give you a view. No need to get all pissy about it. I know you probably feel proud in what you do and get criticised on it is activating instincual fight or flight but you are not a beast.
There is a special place in my heart for FFXI
So, in summation, devs had to consider hardware limitations when designing games for console they otherwise wouldn't need to for purely PC.
Up next, water is wet.
I can see I triggered someone quite easily (to the point they couldn't actually take in the content of the video), up next water is indeed wet.
Water is not wet, objects that come in contact with water are wet
got eee (mee)@@BloodySteel
I’ll 1v1 you in chess.
Welcome back
O good you made it back. Phew i was worried we lost ya
I hate pc i just be tryna game ….
fair enough
I love your intro animation so much ❤❤
My main gripe with any platform, PC or Console, are exclusives.
There are games only on PC, there are games only on xbox, and games only on playstation. I hate this. Gaming is ultimately about bringing people together, and exclusivity does the opposite, it can restrict some people from accessing games, and sows division in the gaming community.
*noted in emulation*
I'm never buying another console again (not counting Nintendo consoles).
glad you got your channel back, i was very confused to have seen a crypto scam stream coming from this channel the other day at work and was afraid we'd never see any of your old videos ever again as it seemed theyd been deleted.
welcome back, excited for the future!
Well the argument about the cost still applies I think. With the Series S we know there are many people out there who were able to upgrade and enter current gen because of its low prize, so while it might not make sense to a youtuber in a 1st world country, there are still many people around the globe who's best shot at gaming might be cheaper alternative of a current gen console. As for me, I was a PC player my whole life (played a shlt tone of wow for well over a decade) but I switched to consoles few years back and I don't want to go back to PC, don't want to say never, but as of right now, console gaming is just so convinient compared to PC its crazy. I get home after a long day of work, I'll press one button on my controler co boot up my console and within seconds Im already in game, no hassle, no need to update drivers, to have multiple launchers, all up to date, just so I can download something only to find out my graphics card has an issue with a certain game since a certain update. I'm aware my consoles won't be able to compete with higher midrange pcs but thats a sacrifice Im willing to take for my sanity :D
You described more of convenience, than price though IMO
@@nerdSlayerstudioss yes, I did that for my case but I also did mention how the Series S in particular gave others the option to upgrade to a current gen after years of not being able to. For me its convinience but there are other around the globe who just can't afford a proper rig. Reason xoulc be either being from a 3rd world country or perhaps even becoming a parent and saving every penny
Consoles have been keeping gaming down since the PS2, sure back then a Playstation 1 was cheap compared to a Pentium 4 alone, but nowadays? no, the actual hardware on consoles is painfully outdated before the damn thing is released, a PS5 pro being the equivalent of a budget system from 7 years ago, I'm still not sure if consoles are running x64 bits native nowadays and holy sh** optimisation for PC games (especially "port") have been atrocious in the past 6 to 7 years.
I reached a point were I'm confident to say, in the open that if you are older than 25 and actively purchase a new console (save mobility ones like Switch or Deck, etc...) you're actively damaging the entire community as a whole, especially since most console games are running on "Always online", "can't trade the CD with friends anymore" and giving incentive to more corporate lording over gaming as a whole.
Have you ever heard of the MMO Earth and Beyond? It's a sci-fi MMO I remember my dad playing for a little while back around 2001. My fondest memory was screwing around on a second character he made for me waaaay past my bedtime lol. I don't really remember much about it, I just absolutely loved spaceships.
It sounds like consoles will never be able to match the power of PCs for MMOs. Perhaps MMOs that are a little old should get a console adaptation.
It doesn't help that MMO are rather RAM hungry and console struggle on that part. Modern console can deal with it easily on 1080 but any higher and it start causing problem due to VRAM being shared between CPU/GPU.
Anybody who has played morrowind and saw the massive regression that Elder Scrolls went through with skyrim is very aware of how bad "consolization" is.
What? Skryim is a btter game anyway. Still one of the most played games after 13 years.
Morrowind is kind of a bad example, because it was cut down to accomodate the XBOX.
Morrowind was released on the original Xbox.
@@shrekrealista5045 Popularity doesn't really mean much, by your own logic Wii sports is top 3 games of all time lmao.
@@0SynergyAnd because don't agree with your gatekeeping tastes isn't?
Console=less hacker but less game
Pc=more hacker but more game
"acktually historically speaking...."
Stfu console pleb.
@@derjoghurtmitderecke ops my bad
PC winning hard. Steam saving gaming as usual.
Consolization is one of the main reason for the near-extinction state of the Real-Time Strategy genre. Little experiments like GrimGrimoire, Halo Wars and Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings don't cut it.
What makes you think that's the main reason? Most RTS fans are older gamers, so it just seems like the genre isn't appealing to a younger demographic. I'd even argue it's not near-extinction just not as popular as it once was. There's really nothing wrong with that. I imagine with something like TW warhammer 40k, we will see a pique in interest in the genre again.
@@aersla1731 Money drives every part of the market in this industry. Young people are not introduced to the genre because the industry doesn't introduce them to the genre. And the industry doesn't introduce them to the genre because the genre can't be made for the majority of gaming devices on the market. That's bad for business.
Note I didn't say there's anything "wrong" with that.
And TW W40k is not a RTS game.
@@aquapendulum I just meant that I don't believe the genre is "near extinction" as you put it. I just think it's niche and there's usually a market for niche things. I didn't say you said something was wrong with it, I just said it not being as popular as it used to be is fine with me. As long as RTS fans exist the genre will continue to exist, even if as time goes on it will continue being more and more niche.
@@aersla1731 Don't fight over semantics. What you mean by "niche" and what I mean by "near extinction" could be the exact same thing. Ask what the other person mean when they use a term first before voicing disagreement.
@@aquapendulum No one is fighting here bud. I just disagree with your opinion that's it. No need for hostility.