13900k 14900k Stabilization How-To, AMD 9950x/Arrow Lake, CCD/Infinity Fabric, Frame to Frame pacing

Some ways to fix some issues with 13th and 14th gen (13900k/14900k)
1. Limit watt usage to 262 watts in BIOS, gives some wiggle room over 253 watts from clocking down
2. Pin P-Cores to 5.4 or 5.5 ghz (whatever you are comfortable with), in my case I do 5.5 and 4.3 on E-Cores.
3. Turn off Multicore Enhancement in BIOS (otherwise CPU will go over 300 watts at stock)
4. Turn off Intel Speed Shift / Speed Step, both can cause stutters in games, but it will also run your cpu at higher idle wattage of about 50-60 watts
5. Make sure that 2 cores that auto boost to 5.8 go only to 5.4 or 5.5, or this will also cause a spike in voltage and stutter in games
6. Undervolt the CPU. I ran mine at 1.28v V-Core and Load Line Level 6 on Asus motherboard
7. Test stability in AIDA64, and then test stability of ram in TM5 with Extreme777 profile.
IF everything is passing in stress tests, run games and watch for any instability, if your games crash, slightly increase your voltage to 1.285 or 1.29 volts.
This will take time, but it will stabilize your system.
My first 13900k began to lock up with 300 watt CPU limit, so after watching HWInfo temps and wattage, I realized that 262 watts is the sweet spot to give wiggle room over 253 watts it draws most of the time. Also, if your CPU goes over the limit you set, some cores will clock down. With 262 watts and my undervolt, it never clocks down on any core.
Talk points:
• Intel 13900k 14900k Stabilization How-to
• Talks of AMD 9950x and Arrowlake.
• CCD issues
• Frame to Frame pacing
• Infinity Fabric
• Limitations of Raptor Lake
•Impact of All E-Core CPU such as Arrow Lake

[@OptimizingNetwork]

Some ways to fix some issues with 13th and 14th gen (13900k/14900k)
1. Limit watt usage to 262 watts in BIOS, gives some wiggle room over 253 watts from clocking down
2. Pin P-Cores to 5.4 or 5.5 ghz (whatever you are comfortable with), in my case I do 5.5 and 4.3 on E-Cores.
3. Turn off Multicore Enhancement in BIOS (otherwise CPU will go over 300 watts at stock)
4. Turn off Intel Speed Shift / Speed Step, both can cause stutters in games, but it will also run your cpu at higher idle wattage of about 50-60 watts
5. Make sure that 2 cores that auto boost to 5.8 go only to 5.4 or 5.5, or this will also cause a spike in voltage and stutter in games
6. Undervolt the CPU. I ran mine at 1.28v V-Core and Load Line Level 6 on Asus motherboard
7. Test stability in AIDA64, and then test stability of ram in TM5 with Extreme777 profile.
IF everything is passing in stress tests, run games and watch for any instability, if your games crash, slightly increase your voltage to 1.285 or 1.29 volts.
This will take time, but it will stabilize your system.
My first 13900k began to lock up with 300 watt CPU limit, so after watching HWInfo temps and wattage, I realized that 262 watts is the sweet spot to give wiggle room over 253 watts it draws most of the time. Also, if your CPU goes over the limit you set, some cores will clock down. With 262 watts and my undervolt, it never clocks down on any core.
Talk points:
• Intel 13900k 14900k Stabilization How-to
• Talks of AMD 9950x and Arrowlake.
• CCD issues
• Frame to Frame pacing
• Infinity Fabric
• Limitations of Raptor Lake
•Impact of All E-Core CPU such as Arrow Lake

[@gustavocarbonaro2663]

Man, this could "delay" the degradation, but after Level1Techs report, of this CPU's used with workstation chipsets, that go 100% to stability and never push voltage or freq, did you think this is a real FIX?

[@FIVESTRZ]

Weren't they just running stock with XMP OFF? which I think would still try to boost.

[@OptimizingNetwork]

This is what Intel has implemented into the motherboard bios, literally the Intel BIOS is limiting CPU to 253 watts, making it identical or near identical to my method, but seems like Intel has also initiated even harder voltage decreases that can take away as much as 15-20% performance compared to "stock settings".
In my case you will not see even 10% performance decrease, but...I highly doubt this will in fact stop the degradation completely, because I speculate it is a complex situation, and you have many sides of the motherboard interacting with the VCore and Memory Controller.
If you listened to first portion of my video, I mention that when I set watt limit to 300 watts, chip still had about 47 watts wiggle room, which can and will increase voltage to the core and the rest of the chip in bursts (although sparadic), even when my CPU is limited to 5.5/4.3 on the cores.
The idea here is to do it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, before your chip degrades, because once I realize my chip degraded with 300 watt limit, I knew something was off. I did not overclock it.
I blamed myself, and then I blamed the motherboard for drawing too much voltage, but before Intel even released that "new Bios" to limit to 253 watts, I was already on board to change the wattage to a lower setting.
Lo-and-behold the solutions for me and Intel were almost 100% aligned. I say this not because I consider myself a genius, but I've lost some CPUs overclocking and undervolting before, I know the nature of those failures, and my 1st 13900k looked like too much voltage or not enough. I blamed undervolt, until all those news came out.
If your chip is BRAND NEW, I suggest you do this immediately, or you are dealing with what I dealt with. I had a flawless cpu, until it wasn't flawless
I could easily do 8000 mhz stable with XMP ram on Asus Apex Encore Z790. 2nd Chip is more reliable at 7733mhz, although 8000 mhz passes in TM5, but not in games. 7733mhz is rock solid, with all undervolting on CPU and cores pinned.

[@OptimizingNetwork]

Wendell is a bright guy, I watch his channel all the time, but literally today I watched Frame Chasers channel and he said that Wendell said that he himself stated that he doesn't know what VID Table is.
So, Wendell is a network guy, he is not an overclocker. He does parity for servers and will hook your systems up great, but he will not know how to tune stuff for gaming or properly overclock.
His insight gave me an understanding that I was not an exclusion to the rule, but majority of people with failures.
It gave me better understanding. Frame Chasers try to say there is no issue, but that's bs. There definitely is the issue, but he sells services of tuning Intel chips
He also hates AMD. I do not hate AMD, I had plenty of AMD chips and they were super stable, back in Phenom II era. My first CPU was AMD, followed by first 2 core AMD CPU in 2001 on first built PC (my friend built it, I watched in awe lol)
I was overclocking since 2001 dual core AMD technically.
The issue is the voltage and interaction within architecture.
CPUs are failing, but the answer is complex.
It's many things, motherboard, cpu and perhaps other things, such as ripple from power supplies and such. Last one probably least of your concerns if you limit wattage and voltage.
BUT...if you ran your i9-13900k like me for 4-5 months without lowering voltage like me, or setting to 253 or 262 watts, you are probably already degraded on CPU side, and there is no going back besides of RMA when it does fail.
I did everything right, but I did not watt limit to 262 watts, I did 300, because I saw CPU go past 300 with Multicore ON, and after turning it OFF, I kept it at 300, thinking I am good. Nope.
You can say it's my mistake too, but Intel set the profiles sky high and self destructed the chip.
I want them to recover too, because AMD will charge higher prices if Intel fails. I already see their greed with motherboards on AMD side, last thing we want is for Intel to fail.
AMD did 7950x3D knowing they are manipulating people into becoming techs, and going against Windows Scheduler. Windows Scheduler prioritizes higher frequency cores, and 3D cores clock lower than their other cores - creating conflict in Scheduler. Hence why AMD told us to use Game Bar, which is a really sneaky way to make people work through your own mistakes. They also clocked the other non-3D cores too high, instead of bringing them down. You know why? Same reason as Intel having 2 cores boost to 5.8 ghz for a split second. To make benchmarks reflect higher scores.
People need to call companies out on their BS, but I would take 7950x and 9950x over 7950x3D any day. Because logic makes sense there.
E-Cores and P-Cores have communication issues, but at least they are structured right. As P-Cores are used in games and clock way higher, so Windows knows what cores to use - Windows Scheduler knows. Win 11 was addressing that issue specifically when 12900k came out.

[@FIVESTRZ]

@@OptimizingNetwork I capped mine to 253W 5.9GHz on one core and 5.8GHz on the rest. First week was a wild time because it would boost to 6.1GHz and the temps were too too much

[@OptimizingNetwork]

@@FIVESTRZ What's up, man! Hope you are doing well 🙂
Yeah, if you are talking about W680 motherboard chipset, then yeah, it will definitely auto-boost. Also, those boards have way less voltage settings by default from what I hear. Similar to OEM motherboards. Also VRMs are pretty weak in comparison to Z790 chipset.
Servers on W680 chipset ran ram at like 4800mhz or something lol, and server side quickly found out that ram speed is not an issue.
I would confidently run 6400 mhz on server side, UNLESS I had like 64 GBs or 128 GBs of ram and populated 4 slots, then yes, 4800 might actually be the best call, because memory controller gets too overloaded. Hence why Apex Encore is so amazing, but it's not for servers. You can do 48 GBs at 8000mhz on it though, but not 64 or 128 GBs
I knew to limit voltage from day 1 due to heat, and I was right, but I made a huge mistake of setting 300 watt limit. 253 watt is a bad limit, because some cores will definitely clock down even with undervolt. 262 seems about perfect. I ran AIDA64 and saw no cores clocking down and voltage stayed within 1.28-1.32v average, with a peak of 1.35-1.37v, that is perfect in terms of voltage for this chip. 1.4volts is technically safe, but I would not go past that, as it can get pretty bad and as we can see pretty FAST at it.