Loving all your videos man! I never comment but just wanted to let you know that these are highly appreciated! I'm gonna be sad when the studio is done, but it will be a joy following the process leading to it :)
Great video, well done ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. I appreciate when people do things the right way, and this was absolutely spot on. The way you took your time really says alot and in the end it shows in the end product. Keep making these videos , definitely appreciate them. Thanks
Interesting to see metal used for treatment. Do you know the physics as to why that Is appropriate application for membrane boxes? The metal attracts the resonant freq and the insulation kills it?
Thanks for the guide. Can i ask some questions? What is the purpose to sandwich the steel plate with rubber? Can u use the plate itself? Do u weight all 3 material to get the kg/m2. What thickness of the plate u use? I have made limp mass with rubber sheet before and i want to try with steel sheet this time. Thanks
Very interesting video and well explained. What resource did you use to learn how to build these traps like membrane and slat type traps. I would like to check that out. Thanks for posting these details. Phil
Great video , thx for sharing. What's the purpose of the rubber membrane. So it will vibrate and stop the low frequency. Thx . Also , what frequency range does it effect. Thx .
I am nearing the end of my build which John also designed, thankfully the latest version of the membrane traps are much easier to build, but they were still the toughest part of the build for sure!!!
Hey, great video. Can you tell how low the center frequency is? I would be curious to know. Cause right now i‘m optimizing my room and i can only go 7,5 cm deep. Thanks man
Hi, Great video and very neat construction. Thanks for sharing. Are the metal sheets the same width of the internal width of the box, thus being bolted between the iron frame? Or are they narrower and just being suspended by gluing them to the rubber? Thanks a lot
Almost all of this stuff you will want to get locally because of shipping. However, I will update my links shortly so that you can see the type of place I got the materials from.
Very informative. Could I ask: the studio plans on your wall, are those your own personal drawn up plans? Would it be possible to get a copy of them for reference on my build please? Understandable if not. Thanks
Nice video! One question: is the area of those traps important for the designed absortion frequency? I know how to calculate the depth and the membrane material thickness but i've no idea about the area. Thanks so much :)
Hi, thanks for the video, so is the metal sheet is sandwiched (EPDM glued both sides)? is it to make more mass for the membrane? How's the consistency so far? Thank you
Thank you for this video, very instructive, I am also in the process of building some Membrane traps Can you share where did you buy the Rubber rolls and Where did you buy and cut the steel sheet? I am in Florida but have no clue of where to look to buy them Thank you in advance, congrats on your new studio
Radio Octave thank you for your reply. Just today went to order the steel sheet. One question what brand kind of glue you used to bond the rubber sandwich with the steel?
@@borism68 There is glue that is made specifically for EPDM. That is the glue that i used. It works like contact cement. You put it on and let it get tacky and then it will bond.
Did you do any testing? The video of music and voice recorded in the studio after completion sounds good. Just curious if you think the hard work involved in building the limp membrane traps?
Thanks for taking the time to film this so thoroughly, just a quick question. Do you think it's really necasary to use the angle iron? I can't see why you could fix 3/4" batten inside of your box, push the sheet metal covered with EPDM up against it and fix straight into the batten itself. The angle iron seems possibly unecasary as if the batten was the same width as the iron it wouldn't restrict it's movement any more?
@@JasonBalibanProductions How you played any bass sweeps and if so, can you hear any big peaks or dips? Just curious how effective this kind of treatment is. I'd think it does a really good job.
Hi Radio Octave...I just discovered your channel because I was researching DIY acoustic treatments. I’m in the process of reconstituting my home studio. I saw the reference to membrane traps and was curious what they were as I’d never heard of them. I understand the physics behind how the trap does its magic and am impressed by the ingenuity of whomever designed and built these at first. That sheet metal plate is a great energy sink and the rubber sheeting makes a great prolonger of the reflection off of the metal with respect to time. The resulting attenuation results in a log reduction of reflected energy of at least a couple of magnitudes and the frequency of the reflection is reduced to the point of not being an issue, especially at the tiny retained amplitude. If any of the energy makes it out of the trap, it’ll have null effect on the room. Sheer genius. My question to you is, “Do you notice a significant improvement in the room’s acoustics with these traps sufficient to offset the cost and considerable effort you invested in fabricating these traps.
I never tested the room prior to putting the treatment in. I built the room specifically to be used for audio so it was a plan from the beginning. The size of the room, how the room was made and then all the trapping was part of the plan.
Radio Octave Ok...fair enough. I reckon that these membrane traps are one of the most efficient and effective designs for mitigating low frequency standing wave issues. There are other simpler and more cost effective designs that will accomplish the same task more or less, unless the energy levels of these waves are considerable and the space small enough to not allow for the easier and more economical large surface area traps that many commonly build a la DIY. I’m just trying to decide if I need the membrane trap in my relatively small studio space or if I can accomplish what is required with the U&C Home Depot Special, DIY built bass traps. I’d hate to go to the trouble of chartering an Airbus 380 to fly my lone self from NYC to London when a Gulfstream business jet would be more than adequate.
@@kirkbolas4985 Contact www.jhbrandt.net and ask him. He will be able to answer any question you have. You will end up with a solution and knowledge, thats how John rolls.
What's up man. I never comment but had to jump in for a few. 1) How do you know what the center frequency of absorption is going to be? 2) What is your level of absorption per panel or what's your projected reduction for the room and at what frequency? Did you measure the room before adding the bass traps, so you will know what frequency to absorb and not to? Last, where did you get the info for this bass trap design? Thanks!
I hired an acoustic engineer to do that work for me. I gave him the max height of my ceiling and we built the entire room dimensions, trapping, and layout based on that. He provided all the plans for the traps. I used www.jhbrandt.net/ if you are interested. Well worth the money!
My understanding is that adding the steel sheet and fastening it all up like that would drive the Q to absurd values effectively giving you a bass trap that works at one specific frequency like 52.94Hz +/- 0.01Hz. The ones I use are high mass vinyl mounted without tension (limp) yielding low q. Did you ever do a sweep?
I hired an acoustic engineer to do that work for me. I gave him the max height of my ceiling and we built the entire room dimensions, trapping, and layout based on that. He provided all the plans for the traps. I used www.jhbrandt.net/ if you are interested. Well worth the money!
Just subscribed. I’ve been planning to add membrane traps to my multi-use home studio soon but am still working on the final design. I’m fascinated by your membrane design. Is this your own design? Is there engineering information available? Just FYI, I’ve constructed speaker cabinets of my own design - sort of a pseudo-infinite baffle integrated into thick OC703/Rockwool walls. My small room dimensions pushed my speaker placement into the corners. Using Polk Audio speakers meant to be installed between studs, I get a nice sound. Keep up the good work; I steal only the best ideas.
Dude thank you so much. Your videos are great ... can't wait for the next one. If you build a ceiling cloud or use John's design for ceiling panels -- P L E A S E cover it if you can. I'm so lost doing this stuff but your videos are helping the blueprints make sense. thanks!
You provided NO measurements and explanation ads to depth of unit , absorption target. Also why are you glueing sheet metal to uour resonator? No measurements, no success!
Do they work and @ what freqs. ?
Loving all your videos man! I never comment but just wanted to let you know that these are highly appreciated! I'm gonna be sad when the studio is done, but it will be a joy following the process leading to it :)
do you have freq responde and waterfall measurements for this room?
AFAIK Membrane absorbers are done in a slightly different way
how did you measured the resonant frequency of the membrane i'm stuck here
Great video, well done ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. I appreciate when people do things the right way, and this was absolutely spot on. The way you took your time really says alot and in the end it shows in the end product. Keep making these videos , definitely appreciate them. Thanks
What is the depth of the metal plates you used; how thick are they?
can te ccoustic material be of the stiffer type that knauf use and not so fluffy behind the diaphram
Excellent and very though, total hours mind boggling !:)
Interesting to see metal used for treatment. Do you know the physics as to why that Is appropriate application for membrane boxes? The metal attracts the resonant freq and the insulation kills it?
Thanks for the guide. Can i ask some questions? What is the purpose to sandwich the steel plate with rubber? Can u use the plate itself? Do u weight all 3 material to get the kg/m2. What thickness of the plate u use? I have made limp mass with rubber sheet before and i want to try with steel sheet this time. Thanks
hi) what thickness of steel did you use? and the thickness of the rubber? Can you tell me which table to use for the calculation?
What are the advantages of a bass trap with a diaphragm?
Very interesting video and well explained. What resource did you use to learn how to build these traps like membrane and slat type traps. I would like to check that out. Thanks for posting these details.
Phil
Where can I get a list of what sheet metal gauges affect what frequencies?Great video here! Thank you!
Did you ever figure out what gauges affect which frequencies?
@@jamesmcfadden1468 You should calculate the weight per area unit and use that in the formula
If I’m trying to get down to 40/30Hz what sheet metal thickness should I use?
Can this be achieved in a 2x4ft panel 4 inches deep?
The link to the EPDM doesn't have anything called EPDM from my extensive scrolling and search. Is there another name?
Great video , thx for sharing.
What's the purpose of the rubber membrane. So it will vibrate and stop the low frequency.
Thx .
Also , what frequency range does it effect. Thx .
What's the absorption coefficient curve of your membrane absorption units? Do you even know?
Hi, me again..do you have measurement before and after membrane?
thx man
I am nearing the end of my build which John also designed, thankfully the latest version of the membrane traps are much easier to build, but they were still the toughest part of the build for sure!!!
What is the difference? Still sandwiching steel between epdm rubber?
And what thickness of steel?
@@ryanbrand1474 IIRC, it’s 26ga galvanized. And yep EPDM sandwiching steel.
How thick EPDM rubber?
Hey, great video. Can you tell how low the center frequency is? I would be curious to know. Cause right now i‘m optimizing my room and i can only go 7,5 cm deep.
Thanks man
How thick is the steel sheet?
truly fantastic
Best video yet!
Good that you've caulked the screws. Because the Bass monster is like water. If there's a whole it will escape.
Hi,
Great video and very neat construction. Thanks for sharing.
Are the metal sheets the same width of the internal width of the box, thus being bolted between the iron frame? Or are they narrower and just being suspended by gluing them to the rubber?
Thanks a lot
Like the others I really enjoy your vids ! Thanks again for your work !
Could you give us the links to buy everything we need to do these panels ?
Almost all of this stuff you will want to get locally because of shipping. However, I will update my links shortly so that you can see the type of place I got the materials from.
How do you determine the right thickness of sheetmetal for a given frequency?
To me, this is the most important question, but he hasn’t answered anyone who has asked it
Thanks man, very helpful!
Holy shit. Lots of work you did. Are they working? Did you measure??
Does it have to be airtight to work?
Yes
What are its internal materials? Can you say _ ???
Very informative. Could I ask: the studio plans on your wall, are those your own personal drawn up plans? Would it be possible to get a copy of them for reference on my build please? Understandable if not. Thanks
you can't copy room plans. its not how it works..
They look great. Nice job.
Nice video! One question: is the area of those traps important for the designed absortion frequency? I know how to calculate the depth and the membrane material thickness but i've no idea about the area. Thanks so much :)
What is the sheet metal used for? Thanks!
The sheet metal is the mass in the membrane. The thickness of the sheet metal determines the frequency the traps work on.
@@JasonBalibanProductions thank you!!
Hi, thanks for the video, so is the metal sheet is sandwiched (EPDM glued both sides)? is it to make more mass for the membrane? How's the consistency so far? Thank you
Yes, the metal is glued between the rubber to add more mass. So far the room has been great.
@@JasonBalibanProductions Thanks for your reply, what adhesive and technique you used for sandwiched rubber and steel?
@@mixbyJM There is a solvent glue specifically made for EPDM. I used that.
@@JasonBalibanProductions mind to share the brand and type? and link where I can get that? Did you press it using special tools?
@@mixbyJM It is called LVOC bonding adhesive. I bought a half used 5 gallon bucket from a local roofer. I used a small roller to help get it bonded.
Hello,
what the total mass of the membrane surface?
Thank you for this video, very instructive, I am also in the process of building some Membrane traps
Can you share where did you buy the Rubber rolls and Where did you buy and cut the steel sheet? I am in Florida but have no clue of where to look to buy them
Thank you in advance, congrats on your new studio
Rubber you can get from roofing supply places. Metal you can get from a sheet metal distributor. Hope this helps.
Radio Octave thank you for your reply. Just today went to order the steel sheet. One question what brand kind of glue you used to bond the rubber sandwich with the steel?
@@borism68 There is glue that is made specifically for EPDM. That is the glue that i used. It works like contact cement. You put it on and let it get tacky and then it will bond.
Radio Octave thanks! I didn’t know that it was special glue. I’ll do some research about it. Much appreciated
Are you attaching the metal sheet that’s sandwiched between the angle iron with nuts and bolts?
Yes
great videos, thank you! do you generally use green glue as your acoustic caulk?
I used this. www.ositough.com/en/products/view-all-products/sc175.html
@@JasonBalibanProductions thanks so much! Another question; where did you source your 12 Ga wires for the AC lines?
Marcus
Did you do any testing? The video of music and voice recorded in the studio after completion sounds good. Just curious if you think the hard work involved in building the limp membrane traps?
Thanks for taking the time to film this so thoroughly, just a quick question. Do you think it's really necasary to use the angle iron? I can't see why you could fix 3/4" batten inside of your box, push the sheet metal covered with EPDM up against it and fix straight into the batten itself. The angle iron seems possibly unecasary as if the batten was the same width as the iron it wouldn't restrict it's movement any more?
curious what you'd say your general % improvement in low end modes/nulls? does this completely smooth out bass response?
I did not measure the room before to know how things improved. I followed the plans that were given to me by the room designer.
@@JasonBalibanProductions How you played any bass sweeps and if so, can you hear any big peaks or dips? Just curious how effective this kind of treatment is. I'd think it does a really good job.
Hi Radio Octave...I just discovered your channel because I was researching DIY acoustic treatments. I’m in the process of reconstituting my home studio. I saw the reference to membrane traps and was curious what they were as I’d never heard of them.
I understand the physics behind how the trap does its magic and am impressed by the ingenuity of whomever designed and built these at first. That sheet metal plate is a great energy sink and the rubber sheeting makes a great prolonger of the reflection off of the metal with respect to time. The resulting attenuation results in a log reduction of reflected energy of at least a couple of magnitudes and the frequency of the reflection is reduced to the point of not being an issue, especially at the tiny retained amplitude. If any of the energy makes it out of the trap, it’ll have null effect on the room. Sheer genius.
My question to you is, “Do you notice a significant improvement in the room’s acoustics with these traps sufficient to offset the cost and considerable effort you invested in fabricating these traps.
I never tested the room prior to putting the treatment in. I built the room specifically to be used for audio so it was a plan from the beginning. The size of the room, how the room was made and then all the trapping was part of the plan.
Radio Octave Ok...fair enough. I reckon that these membrane traps are one of the most efficient and effective designs for mitigating low frequency standing wave issues. There are other simpler and more cost effective designs that will accomplish the same task more or less, unless the energy levels of these waves are considerable and the space small enough to not allow for the easier and more economical large surface area traps that many commonly build a la DIY. I’m just trying to decide if I need the membrane trap in my relatively small studio space or if I can accomplish what is required with the U&C Home Depot Special, DIY built bass traps. I’d hate to go to the trouble of chartering an Airbus 380 to fly my lone self from NYC to London when a Gulfstream business jet would be more than adequate.
@@kirkbolas4985 Contact www.jhbrandt.net and ask him. He will be able to answer any question you have. You will end up with a solution and knowledge, thats how John rolls.
What's up man. I never comment but had to jump in for a few. 1) How do you know what the center frequency of absorption is going to be? 2) What is your level of absorption per panel or what's your projected reduction for the room and at what frequency?
Did you measure the room before adding the bass traps, so you will know what frequency to absorb and not to? Last, where did you get the info for this bass trap design?
Thanks!
I hired an acoustic engineer to do that work for me. I gave him the max height of my ceiling and we built the entire room dimensions, trapping, and layout based on that. He provided all the plans for the traps. I used www.jhbrandt.net/ if you are interested. Well worth the money!
My understanding is that adding the steel sheet and fastening it all up like that would drive the Q to absurd values effectively giving you a bass trap that works at one specific frequency like 52.94Hz +/- 0.01Hz. The ones I use are high mass vinyl mounted without tension (limp) yielding low q. Did you ever do a sweep?
@@JasonBalibanProductions John Brandt has a lot of experience! Glad it worked out for you!
@@sh91899 Adding porous material in the cavity behind the membrane lowers the Q value and consequently broadens the bandwidth
hi, good job! How U design the frequency response for this traps ? What is U'r aproach for that ?
I hired an acoustic engineer to do that work for me. I gave him the max height of my ceiling and we built the entire room dimensions, trapping, and layout based on that. He provided all the plans for the traps. I used www.jhbrandt.net/ if you are interested. Well worth the money!
Just subscribed. I’ve been planning to add membrane traps to my multi-use home studio soon but am still working on the final design. I’m fascinated by your membrane design. Is this your own design? Is there engineering information available?
Just FYI, I’ve constructed speaker cabinets of my own design - sort of a pseudo-infinite baffle integrated into thick OC703/Rockwool walls. My small room dimensions pushed my speaker placement into the corners. Using Polk Audio speakers meant to be installed between studs, I get a nice sound.
Keep up the good work; I steal only the best ideas.
They were designed by John Brandt, my acoustic engineer.
@@JasonBalibanProductions He would know, for sure!
i'd love to see the finished room. t/u
The finished product video is here... ua-cam.com/video/JZYdpRkqw_o/v-deo.html
Dude thank you so much. Your videos are great ... can't wait for the next one. If you build a ceiling cloud or use John's design for ceiling panels -- P L E A S E cover it if you can. I'm so lost doing this stuff but your videos are helping the blueprints make sense.
thanks!
My plans do not include a ceiling cloud, but I may be able to help you if I take a look at the plans.
lol i have a song i made its called Radio active / i do like the O du
LOOSELY TIGHTENED
You provided NO measurements and explanation ads to depth of unit , absorption target.
Also why are you glueing sheet metal to uour resonator?
No measurements, no success!