Does Games Workshop Have Too Many Games?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Something a little different this week, as I sit down to discuss an old problem that seems to have returned? Well at least in terms of stock issues and release windows maybe. Let me know what you think in the video comments.
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I don't think they have too many games. Everyone thinks that any resources spent on anything other than what they love is a waste of Workshop's efforts. Whereas the correct answer if anything other than the old world is a waste of time. I want High Elves ha ha.
😂
Yup , anything other than Old World is a waste of time fantasy was the best wooohooo
Not even being able to take an online order (with an accurately projected delivery date) is pretty pathetic.
Just saying 'Out of stock" is crazy from a business perspective.
It’s a shame it’s got to the place it’s in now, hope they can fix it with the new production facility.
No they are just too expensive
😂 That as well maybe, but watch the video as that’s not the topic.
Yes to to expensive & to many
Their price per model isn’t the problem, they actually compare pretty well model to model to other companies. It’s the fact that you need so many models.
What 40k and AoS need, especially 40k, is a legit mode of play around the 750-1000pts level. They’ve tried to do this with combat patrol but those are just regular games with few units. They need an interesting more in depth smaller points game mode. Back in 3rd edition I really enjoyed playing games at this point level but stuff moves to fast and die too easily to have interesting games now. Also stop tanking the lore and insulting the people that actually play your games.
Rephrased - do they not have enough production to prevent gouging on their main games? Then yes, too many games
Yep pretty much, hopefully it will improve with the new factory.
Well, they since apparently they can’t keep product in stock for their “Big Two” games, let alone the smaller lines like Kill Team and Warcry, as well as specialist games. The problem goes far beyond simply having too many product lines to manage. As a former production&inventory management guy, I’d be willing to bet that one of their biggest problems is coordinating the in-house model production with the paper products that are outsourced to China. In one of the companies I worked for, we’d have major stock-outs on certain products because we had all the components on hand but were waiting for the packaging pieces to show up from overseas.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s not another challenge that’s thrown into the mix as well, thank you for the insight.
I think they really need to scale back, so many games, so many miniatures, and you were just looking at the manufacturing/stock side of things. Each of those games and miniatures needs to go through design (not just from a model point of view but also rules), production of collateral - in theory testing (but I have my doubts) and then later revisions, and they're doing all of this with small teams. Then as you say, bring in release window collisions and you can quickly run into chaos.
It's interesting you mentioned the 2nd factory as I recall hearing they attempted an earlier expansion which pretty much knocked out the Nottingham power grid - not sure whether this is apocryphal but it goes to show the scale they need to expand to to take into account what they're currentlly producing.
Finally, yes, the Forgeworld e-commerce infrastructure being separate from GW was insane, really put me off buying anything.
I’d forgotten about the power grid thing, that’s wild, hopefully not an issue moving forward with the planned expansion opening in 2026.
The Specialist Design Studio side of the business definitely has play testing, it’s very much outsourced to volunteers though. It’s definitely handled differently from game system to game system, and release to release.
By having so many games, they "occupy the shelves", having products for every range and kind of game, it's harder than ever for other manufacturers to compete. What I'm quite amazed at is the number of new entries in those ranges. Every weeks, new things... I hardly even manage to follow two of their games nowadays. You mentioned LI, the number of new entries in nine months is insane. I mean, it's a good thing for this game, but how do people manage to paint all of that ? If you want to paint and play another game ? Most of people paint between 50/100 minis in a year, so I assume a lot of stuff is bought (since FOMO is a thing and a lot of new stuff is out of stock 5 minutes after the pre order is open) and just wait in sealed box to be paint, maybe, one day...
It’s increasingly hard to be a multi-system gamer these days, each game can be a hobby in its own right. That is pretty great, but certainly means I can’t manage as much as I’d like, and clearly makes it hard for GW to find release windows and keep things in stock.
Great topic and very reasoned in your comments. I wonder if GW was concerned about which financial year to take the hit on the balance sheet of setting up a new facility. Along with if a lot of the problems are caused by operating a number of projects in isolation from each other with no shared production and support infrastructure requirement plan in place.
Thank you Aled, and that’s a really good point. They’re definitely reacting to the problem, and reality as fast as they can, just wish they’d be more open about it.
Uncle Atom's recent video on Mordheim got me thinking that in a perfect world GW would keep the Old World miniature agnostic (i.e. similarly to how Kill Team started -- just grab your old WFB models and/or AoS ones, put them on square adapters and go at it) and release the rules for all armies Day 1 with Arcane Journals published on a bi-monthly basis for all the factions, rather than arbitrarily limiting support to just nine armies. Seeing how Old World got sidelined in order to make space for AoS 4.0 and hearing how there's some odd internal tug-of-war between the different design teams and sharing resources, it makes for a rather sorry start to what otherwise has been lauded as a great ruleset that combines the best aspects of the previous editions. I know that GW makes their buck selling miniatures, but they put the Old World in a strange spot, where a) legendary faction players feel alienated and discouraged to invest time and money into the game since their armies aren't officially supported, b) players of the upcoming core facfions get next to no news about when to expect releases for their armies and are left to their own devices (I.e. 3d print or spend a fortune on ebay), c) the players of the three already released armies are either waiting for restocks unable to complete their armies or are getting tired of playing against each other and/or not finding new players to roll dice with due to points a) and b).
It’s certainly a cool idea, scope for making money from it aside from the initial book releases is probably too small to warrant it though, much more like a community project approach which is probably why is resonates so well with Mordhiem.
I'm glad I built my High Elf army in 2018 when most of the kits were still available, but I would REALLY love to be able to expand it. I've also made some changes going from 6th ed to ToW I've made some changes and need more Sea Guard, but refuse to pay ebay prices, so I'll just be pretending my archers have armor and spears for the next couple years. I've heard rumors that HE are last on the list of releases, so I suspect it'll be some time before they come out
It’s going to be a long waiting game for half the armies at this rate. I think they will be the first of the Elves, but I think we have an evil faction next. Would make a lot of sense to have them after whatever comes after Dwarfs (if that makes sense).
I wonder if GW could consider working out what volume of an out of stock item would need to reach to warrant making space for it in the schedule over a specific timeframe. The website could then indicate how many more orders would be needed to trigger this. Customers could then make a more informed choice/have some agency whilst GW would be able to prioritise in-demand items. Not perfect (as some customers might be placing an order hoping others follow suite so they don’t have to wait for ages) and plenty of detail to work through (such as when payment is taken) but something along these lines might help not just now but even when the new factory gets up and running.
Would be a very cool idea, sadly not very ‘GW’ at all. I think behind the scenes they use the ‘email me’ button a bit like that, I know they do harvest that data, but they’d never give customers any visibility on that.
At least the delay gives us time to paint and also gives my Wallet time to recover, the stock issues do need to be fixed though
There are definitely some benefits yes, I’ve felt those of late 😂
Happy to forgive the delays if they just communicated a bit better. V frustrating not knowing when we will see dwarves. The longer it goes the more i spend on ebay.
Yep 100%
I have little sympathy with GW re their release schedules. They own the Intellectual Property and Supply Chain for all their games; they get to choose their release schedule. Currently it seems that everything in demand sells out within minutes for most game systems, that’s rubbish planning for a product that is not a life-essential item to any of its customers. How long would you frequent a Resturant if every time you went most of the menu was unavailable?
I get that hiccups happen but this is now expected with every release and proven with every release.
They clearly have a release schedule that they cannot support which impacts the games they’ve already sold to customers.
I have now disengaged from the Saturday 10AM new releases for ToW, Kill Team, Warcry, MESBG and Necromunda. GW have trained me in to believing that they will not be able to deliver on their own hype so I know wait and buy on the secondary non-scalper market places. I will wait for Skaven AoS. I’m planning to get them next year.
It’s sad that the main expectation now is that it’s going to be a struggle to get the miniatures and games you want.
They probably don't have too many games, but it does seem like it some days especially the way that they struggle to keep stock available for the full range of each game. Nearly every game and faction have something available to buy but not the full range. Many times, it is the best value or most popular items that aren't available which further adds to the idea that nothing is in stock. The Kingdom of Bretonnia range you brought up was a good example as the best value army box isn't available yet the split-up versions at "considerably" higher prices are.
Another added complexity is that some countries version of the webstore doesn't have an item, but others will and that is likely due to local warehouse stock issues which further adds to the frustration.
Sadly, like many things in life where stock can get taken up by 3rd parties (quasi scalpers) they will then resell at higher than RRP because they know that people need these items to complete their armies. I actually don't have anything against people who buy bigger boxes and then on sell the parts they didn't want and even the people who run that process commercially provided the prices don't fall into the scalping territory. Obviously supply and demand determines something's worth but there is a distinct zone in there where people can be taken advantage of.
Yep the stock issues have some really frustrating knock on effects as well, luckily for most things right now the fact that stuff is coming back periodically seems to have prevented the professional scalpers (it’s only the limited stuff they’re targeting). Though there are lots of box splitters doing well from it, but I quite like them, I find them useful. I’m sure I’ll end up buying slightly over priced AOS 4 Skaven rather than getting the whole box and splitting myself.
@@MiniatureRealms honestly box splitters can be quite useful as long as the prices are “fair”. I have bought items from people that split boxes before particularly boxes like the AOS4 that you are thinking of as you don’t want them for AOS
The issue with specialist games is I suspect they just don’t know the demand up front. The same thing happened with all the games going back to bloodbowl, necromunda, and At, with AT being hit very badly.
Also, the main issue now seems to be they are stock building AoS new version. So use Specalist Games guys can blame AoS player 😜
😂 That will certainly be part of it, but I think they should be better at forecasting and stocking all games. Right now I fear no matter what they do they don’t have the production capacity to keep up.
Workshop were really burned badly after the bubble of LotR burst in the 2000s.
They are probably worried about expanding big investments like manufacturing capacity.
But they keep bringing new things out, and demand seems high, even after the bounce during covid. Maybe the bounce has stuck so they are gaining confidence.
Yes they are super super risk adverse, you can see that in their approach too the Old World, bringing back old stuff to check it sells first. Hopefully the new facility will sort things out in a couple of years time.
Yes, they took the money that saved their company in 9th and used it to revive every spinoff game they ever canceled and introduce a few new ones, with lots more on the way. Whilst simultaneously criminally neglecting the product that saved their company in the first place, as well as not being able to support all the spinoff games they're introducing anyway. Truly baffling, frontloaded business practice that is going to bite them down the road unless they focus up.
I hope they can improve the production speed, I think that will solve many of the issues.
GW lost my money for the last 2 years because they didnt let me buy 3 of their extremely limited box sets.. I am Especially angry for Inquisition vs Cultists for Kill Team set and Kt boxes in general. Ive transferred funds into Warlord Epics and did not looked back. I will give them a chance with new Necromunda box soon, but if they fail again, funds will go towards Punic epics. Sure i can buy most of the stuff later.. but I am just angry for being unable to get what i want WHEN I want it. They kind of lost me as a customer because of bad business decisions.
It’s not a great feeling is it, things happen once in a while, but the constant race to click buy on every release is not a fun way to be a customer.
So many games and still waiting on battlefleet gothic rerelease 😢. Long delays doesn’t bother me too much but better communication would be nice.
Agreed, the delays are clearly not what they want either, just wish they were a little more honest about them.
I’d be afraid of Workshop rereleasing games like BFG. Necromunda is bad enough
For their current production and logistical capabilities, yes. Hopefully the new factory they're about to build should sort this.
That’s my hope as well, it’s been a wild few years for them since Covid, hopefully it’s a big enough facility to future proof for growth as well.
I expect the new factory will achieve stable capacity sometime in 2026, until then…..
I think the issue of "capacity", I believe that's not production capacity but that GW has the physical capacity for additional production lines to be built.
As to transparency, that brings is own set of complaints. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Finally, to the base topic, yes they do. I cannot believe that GW profits from the 2 "Epic" scale games. I get Underworlds as it's sold in entirely different channels than just traditional local game stores. Here in the States, it's sold in Barnes and Noble (chain bookstores) and Target. Not your traditional avenues of Tabletop war games. I think they could slim down Specialist Games but most, like Blood Bowl sell well and the community for BB is the most active of all GW games.
I think the market is there for all of them to be profitable, that’s why they currently exist (that could change in the future), but the danger is lack of availability could damage some systems. In terms of marketability games like Underworlds are much easier to push to a mass market, to pick up those impulse purchases from non-regular wargamers, so book stores and general stores are good places to have them as well.
Looking at it from their pov, no. Their escalating profits suggest otherwise. From the customers pov, maybe but then again no one is making us buy any of it. I’ve consciously stepped away from GW games, except for Legions Imperialis and Warmaster.
You’re absolutely right about the profits, and the contrasting perspectives, they’re risk adverse and they’re in a period of huge growth. This enables them to project conservatively, beat goals, please shareholders and slightly gloss over issues. Issues that will hopefully be resolved once the extra manufacturing facilities are built.
They all do don't they? Games workshop, Warlord, Mantic... they all have more games than you can shake a stick at 😂, but there is such a colossal difference in how they are presented and marketed.
I don't know if it is healthy for the hobby or not though, and I think you cover the topic well but it surely can't be easy for companies to keep on top of everything when they have 8+ games each with 10+ factions/armies.
I love AoS, but we're almost on the 4th iteration of the game and the Cities of Sigmar have only just had a model update. Is that because they are less played than other armies, or is it because they have too much going on and can't keep up?
I still think Warlord do it best. We've had 8 solid years of Bolt Action 2.0 - great models and well fleshed out armies. I've enjoyed every minute of it and having a third around the corner is just so exciting. But, in that time GW will have done 4 versions of AoS and 4 versions of 40K 😵
Too many games or not, I just wish GW would allow us to grow into their games a little more and give us time to enjoy them. That's their biggest problem - chasing them dollar signs!
Yep you’re right on all of the above really. For me it’s more about having too many to keep in stock/find release windows for rather than choice.
They don't have "too many" games, they have "too little" manufacturing capacity/bandwidth to support the games they have.
Yep that’s a neat way of explaining it for sure.
The reason why I don't buy Games Workshop is because they change too often. I'd like to play 40K Steel Legion but they don't sell it any more. Warhammer fantasy stopped and they restarted as the old world. I don't like the inconsistency. And when you're used to Warlord Games, GW is quite expensive.
Yep all very good points, they have definitely changed in approach a great deal over previous years, Warlord runs much more like GW did back in the 90s/early 2000s. It’s no wonder that many old GW gamers migrate there (and of course it’s run by staff of that era).
Très intéressant , je suis du même avis. Faut rajouter tout les soucis liés aux brexit, les soucis de matière première
Yes that’s another big factor as well.
They only really need old world now
😂
I keep getting sucked into playing all of them and not enough time to do so
😅 I know the feeling
I'd argue they dont have enough workshop.
Seems to be the case
All other concepts and ideas aside, and for the love of all that is good....please GW just release the Dwarfs lol
😂🙏
There's not too many games... there's too many releases! (which isn't the same) For example, everyone kinda agree that releasing a 4th edition for AoS is kind of a mistake, and the low cycle of release for TOW is sure embarassing, but at least that's humanly suitable for customers. If they won't just invest in pointless "new edition" or "armies supplements" instead of just following the basic cycle, everyone would be happy and I bet sales figures won't take a dive, since less noise = more focus on unseen/forgotten releases that are drowned into it and sell badly.
They’ve really tied themselves into the 3 year cycle of their main two games, and I think now that’s clearly impacting other releases, but also effecting the quality of those products.
They own their own release schedule so they get to choose when things drop. Given a 3 year release schedule it’s KillTeam, which I play, next year. My wargame group has already decided to sit that release out and see how it looks 6 months later. It’s the sensible approach given that this is only a hobby.
Yes , if you are starting up it's too confusing .
The website isn't very user friendly either I find
Also way too expensive as well .
The new website isn’t great is it
They’re just expensive and there’s too many of it
That’s fair enough, it’s more about the availability for those who want it though. GW definitely isn’t for everyone.
They just announced a new factory's just being worked on, so it's obviously a problem they've seen & are working on sorting out
Yep absolutely, that’s all covered in the video. Let’s hope the new facility will get things back on track when it opens in 2026.
@@MiniatureRealms I think the new factory is crisis management not critical path analysis as it /should/ be. Instead of recognising two years ago 'OK at the current rate of production plus the new ranges planned we'll need a new factory in two years' they brought out the ranges, the production //already at capacity// is creaking and only /now/ they've realised 'We need a new factory /now/. Oh wait, it'll take two years? Oops..'
They’ve had the land for a while, so I think it’s always been a long term plan, and they’ve already expanded their existing production and warehouse recently. For me it’s more about being open and addressing the issue, and lines like the one I quoted in the 2023 report seems to disregard the problem and pretend their isn’t one.
The growth they’ve seen since 2020 has been huge, I’m not surprised they’re struggling, just with they were more open and communicated better.
@@MiniatureRealms TBH if they've had the land for a while building on it /immediately/ should have been part of the plan, not as seems to be the case 'build on it when we need it..'
As old world is back. Maybe it's time to end AOS.
I think there’s plenty of room for both games, once they’re able to keep production levels in line with demand.