GM's Coolest Invention Wasn't Even Part of a Car: The Chevrolet Vega's Vert-a-Pac Shipping System
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- Опубліковано 4 лис 2023
- Learn more about the Chevrolet Vega's Vert-a-Pac shipping system, a highly innovative invention that hasn't been used before or since!
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As a retired railroader with 41 years of service in the industry, I can provide some insight to this concept from a railroad perspective. First, loading and unloading the Vert-a-Pac cars was incredibly labor intensive and, in many aspects, dangerous. In addition, the cars needed a very wide space to accommodate the open doors which took up a lot of yard space that could be used for additional tracks. It was also very time consuming to load the vehicles and secure them to the Vert-a-Pac. Closing the doors on the Vert-a-Pac was tedious and potentially dangerous. Dropping a loaded panel would have devastating results and I'm sure it has happened more than once. The process needed to be done in reverse during unloading. Second, the 70s were hard times for the railroad industry. Deferred maintenance resulted in very rough track. In modern times, when the railroad industry is thriving, the ride would still be rough for a vertically mounted vehicle. In the 70s, the Vegas took a beating during transit because of the poor quality of the track at the time. Another consideration that was overlooked with the design of the Vert-a-Pac system is the dynamics of Slack Action in the trains themselves. Even under skilled control from the best engineers, serious and powerful shock forces from train slack occurred. With a vehicle mounted flat, on all four tires, slack action was minimized by the tires and tie-downs that were used. With a vertically mounted vehicle, these in-train forces were transmitted sideways to the vehicles which seriously magnified the forces and shock to the vehicles before they even reached the showroom. So, there are a few additional points to ponder with the Vert-a-Pac concept.
I was inches and a split second away from being killed by Slack Action. While making repairs on an outbound train, the Carman on the head end dropped the blue flag without notifying anyone.
The end of the cars went from point zero to four feet away from me in the blink of an eye.
Very cool what you posted here as a comment. Thanks to both you and Adam for educating us on this rather strange car carrier. I was not aware it ever existed, albeit I did see a promotional film from GM about regular covered car carriers from the 70s when they introduced them..
Thank you so much for sharing your insight! GM should have talked to folks like you prior to implementing this plan
Talking to railroad employees (Union) would be like automotive management talking to assembly line workers (Union)
Management & Union, NEVER shall the two meet!
Thank you for this interesting contribution 👍
Engineers: "Let's save gazillions by shipping our cars vertically!"
Also Engineers: "Let's spend gazillions modifying our cars so they can ship vertically!"
In actuality, it was just a handful of minor adjustments that were required.
The railroads saved money, not GM. It was Southern Pacific's idea, not GMs.
@@Greatdome99
If true thats funny (and not doubting you). Its just that everyone is slamming GM over it and will probably be remembered as GMs doing.
@@Greatdome99Surely the railroad passed on some of the savings to GM? Otherwise, why would GM bother?
@@nkt1correct - it was a joint project.
Hot wheels carrying case in real life.
The Vega was another automotive "if only" on so many levels. The early ones, especially in GT trim, were gorgeous! They had really nice interiors too. What a shame that the engine and rust problems ruined their reputation.
I agree, they still look better than 99% of new cars today too
I watched a video some time ago. The guy who worked for Chevrolet was saying the metal they used was showing signs of rust before the panels were ever stamped. The are nice looking cars. Much better than anything comparable today.
Yeah, my first car was a 72 orange gt with black stripes. Fill up with oil and check the gas😂😂😂
GM are like the crazy self harming uncle. So capable yet a total loss
A friend bought one with a Cosworth engine. It ran pretty good.
Somewhere between "one of the most interesting engineering feats that perhaps General Motors ever put together" and "it was never used again" is the story of GM.
Like the EV1 Impact, the Space Frame.....
Corvair, the Olds Jetfire, the 1st generation tempest...
GM has had some of the worst ideas in the history of the automotive world.
Government Motors
What a shame that the innovations, engineering and effort didn't go into making a better Vega.
Better is the key word here. The Vega did have a number of innovations that if they had been tested and developed adequately would have worked well. The over head cam engine is one. GM US hadn't don e this before. The timing chain was all new designed. The aluminum engine block had been used before in GM cars, but never with the pistons riding against an aluminum sleeve. It worked, but lubricants of the time didn't provide enough protection to those side walls. The real down fall of that engine was its total intolerance to over heating. The typical American driver is casual at best about keeping fluids topped up. The target audience for this car was at the extreme end of that group. Let the engine over heat just once and you had warpage of the head to block bad enough to blow the head gasket. That usually meant the end of that engine. The rust issue with the car, apart from what was attributable across the entire GM line up because of using poor alloys could have been remedied by adding two drain holes in the fire wall and enlarging the drain holes farther down the same area. The Vega was always a great looking car, mimicking that same era Camaro in styling. It sure was a lost opportunity for GM.
GM did the OHC engine and was developed by DeLorean for Pontiac in the 60s. Was a great engine but was not what GM management wanted and was discontinued. A 4 cyl version of Pontiac's OHC 6 would have worked great in the Vega.
@@charlesf4428 A four cylinder version of the OHC Pontiac engine might have worked in the Vega, but I believe the Pontiac engine was quite a bit taller than the Vega engine and may have required it to be slanted one way or the other much as Pontiac had done with the 1/2 V8 four cylinder engine in the original Tempest model in the early 60's.
@@cdjhyoung In a typical piece of GM stupidity, they didn’t put in an expansion tank
@@cdjhyoung Generally correct in most details. But the cylinder wall was etched eutectic aluminum, making the cylinder wall among the hardest substances known to man, silicon. Also, the heat intolerance caused the cylinder to warp, thereby rubbing the wall against the piston and scoring the surface. Simple coolant overflow bottle in 1973 solved most of the problems. Today's aluminum engines use this technology, so it was cutting edge in the Vega. Rust had a number of causes, as you said problematic among all makes and models for the reasons you stated. One major little flaw was the lack of wheel well liners in the 71-72 model years. Solved for a couple of bucks. I have a 75 Cosworth and a 77 GT and both are rust-free. The head gasket was paper for the first 6 months (1971), after which Chev went to a steel gasket and solved the problem of blown gasket. The 75 Cosworth was the first production electronic fuel injection, tuned port. Cosworth was also the first dual overhead cam, 4 valves per cylinder, since the 1939 Cord. DOHC is now a feature of high end cars. I really wish the 5-speed manual had been part of the options from the start. Optional was 5-speed manual + posi-traction on the 76-77 models. Traction bar and beefed-up suspension standard on GT models. Durabuilt (76-77) engines had hydraulic lifters. 71-72 GT's had 2-stage Rochester carbs. Post 72-GT's and all 77's had dual stage 2 bbl Holley carbs. Anyone who has a 77 survivor has one sweet vintage car, most particularly the GT's (no rust, no maintenance, just gas, tires, and oil, and the occasional detailing). All Vegas stop faster than a Corvette, and have the elusive neutral steering that makes them demons on mountain roads. A car ahead of its time, and designed to be replaced by the Monza after 1978. A shame really, because it was better in a majority of respects than the Monza by 1977. 1978 Monza S wagons are Vegas in all reality, only the front clip and name plate was changed. Vega was not forced out of the market, just designed to be phased out. They should bring it back with modern technology. It would be one helluva car, but the price would probably match every other mid-range car today.
There was an episode of "Mad Men" where the guys from Sterling Cooper were talking about the ad campaign for this magnificent, revolutionary car that Chevrolet was about to launch. When it turned out to be the Vega, that was quite a hoot. It's surprising Ed Cole became GM President after all the Vega's problems.
Ed Cole was President before the Vega, he was responsible for a lot of innovations at GM like the rear engine Corvair, aluminum Buick V8, Tempest with 4 wheel independent suspension and 4 cylinder engine made of half a V8. Even the front drive Toronado and the original Chev 283 V8. Most of his ideas failed to stand the test of time but a few were engineering marvels.
@@mrdanforth3744Chevrolet produced the 265 V8 before the 283.
@@mrdanforth3744 That's what I thought, but I believe Adam said Cole became president after the Vega. I'll listen again. Cole's greatest contribution was the Chevy small block , when he was in engineering.
@@tombrown1898 he did say that ,but he was mistaken .
It’s called “failing up” and is extremely common in the business world. I’m not sure Ed was guilty of this, but many others have been.
Not a bad-looking car. It WAS a bad car, but not bad looking.
@@HelicopterDad-xk5sxyah but most new cars start and run…A Vega…not so much. This was one of the cars that drove buyers to Japanese cars, they didn’t want to carry tools in their trunk to get home.
My older brother bought a 1971 Vega. He loved it but after two years and about 40,000 miles the engine was shot. One of my classmates bought a 1974 Vega. It wasn’t much better.
Why did they design that engine when gm Europe had a a choice of different engines of similar capacity that weren’t quite as s**t?
@@scottyg7284 because it was Ed Cole's baby . He also brought us the Corvair . Need I say more ?
@@gregz6418
I had many and worked on many more and wouldn't say any were undependable.
But that engine, what were they thinking! If you sleeved the block it wasn't a bad car, till the rust took over.
My first one all the local gas stations knew me as $10 and 2 quarts.
This is how my dad's custom 1971 "2-car garage" actually held 8 Vegas.
One wishes that GM had devoted half the time and energy to designing a decent car as it did trying to save a buck in transport. The American auto industry might not have had its clocks cleaned by the Japanese.
GM response to criticisms of the Vega.. "At least it's not a Pinto !"... "Have you SEEN a Pinto ??"
Sadly, the Vega and the Pinto were the poster children for "It's really neat that we got to the moon first, but ...."
Exactly, Was a GM fan since 80’s But will stay with Honda They don’t rot out in 4 years
I'm guessing NASA never asked GM : Hey can you guys build us a rocket ??? @@johnstuartsmith
Even big companies need tax writeoffs.....
The battery issue was not discovered until after the first few shipments. A Chevy dealer friend of mine told me the battery acid did actually weep into the internal parts of the front of the car until it was discovered and the modification of later production cars was made. Those particular Vegas were at the root of the rusting problem in some early Vegas. I was a big fan of the Cosworth model. Always wanted one.
Saved acid dipping the hood and fenders for race ready modifications.....
So draining the swamp to find gators ...all these car modifications to the car just to accommodate vertical shipping they could have tarped all cars and just load them normally ......way too much cost and work just to ship cars vertically.......
That wasn't the root of the rust problem.
The lack of primer under the external paint and no coating at all on hidden surfaces was the problem. That included the floor pan, which would rust completely out in a few years. Even if undercoating were applied on the outside you couldn't do anything about the uncoated steel under the carpet.
@@1djbecker Yep. The car that destroyed the 'body by fisher' mark of quality. They were so proud of their elpo electrostatic coating that they thought it was the cure-all to rust problems. Such a sad end to decades of Fisher body excellence.
I remember seeing a train hauling these in Gibsonburg Ohio in the early 70's. My uncle Jim was a parts manager at a chevy dealership, and he laughed at it as it rolled by.
More than any auto manufacturer I can think of, GM is notoriously good at shooting themselves in the foot. Like, make sure the safety is off, aim carefully, then boom. They killed off model after model themselves after spending incalculable sums of money to cure engineering issues that should have been taken care of to begin with. Many were inherently good cars that just needed a little more thorough development. The Vega is a perfect example. They were, in my opinion, very good looking cars particularly in GT trim and having driven a few, they were pretty nice when you were behind the wheel. The cost of building these rail cars, plus the cost of modifying the cars so they could be shipped vertically must have been staggering. They certainly went all in for a car that they ended up tossing away themselves. Given that this was Ed Cole’s baby, it must have taken a toll on him.
Funny you say that. It’s been my opinion for decades that GM has a habit of rushing the release of a product just before it ms ready and letting the customer do the final testing. Then it’s nonstop refinement, updates, bad publicity, redesigns, until it’s basically perfected. At which point the product is discontinued, only to be replaced by something else that’s not quite ready for the buying public.
The Vega is a perfect example. A stylish car that sold well, only to be plagued with the “bean counter” syndrome. They wanted to build a cheap economic car, but made it with lousy quality steel, the car was basically made of compressed rust. The Cadillac 4100 engine, the Oldsmobile 350 diesel, the 440T4 transmission, the list goes on
You guys ever heard of Ford and Chrysler???
@@mattrodgers4878 All because the gubmint got involved in car making. Just look at the 1960's gm cars.....
@will7its oh believe me, I’m not leaving Ford and Chrysler out of the mix. I just think GM wrote the book on it.
Personally, I feel the changes to the car for vertical shipping are rather minor, but the change in the rail system, along with the added room needed to load and training in that area were staggering, despite moving 35% more vehicles per train car. One thing that was certain.... if the car didn't leak in shipping, at least all the fluids were staying inside, and your garage floor was ok for awhile!
I remember in high school in the 70s these cars could be had for next to nothing. You could pick up a two year old perfect paint and interior with less than 20,000 miles with a blown motor. These cars were so easy to V8 swap. I remember specifically looking for the automatic cars because you could even use the turbo 350 tranny. Around that same time my local wrecking yard used to have clearance sales every so often and you could pick up a small block for 50 bucks. Those were the good old days.
Very few had turbo 350s and the ones that did it was an odd air cooled transmission. None of the vega automatics would bolt up to a small block chevy, had a different shape and bolt pattern.
@@edmundanderson657he stated " because you could use a 350 "
I'm assuming he seemed out auto cars for the correct floor boot
@@diviningrod2671
Can't speak for or remember the 71-72s but 73 and up had the same tunnel and hole in the floor for auto and stick. Swapped out a few from auto to stick.
71 and 72 had an opal trans while 73 and up had a Saginaw for 4sps.
My first car in HS was a 71 Vega wagon. Paid 400 bucks for it in 1975 with no engine..lol. Got a junkyard 327 2 barrel for it and the 50 buck engine swap kit, motor mounts and transmission crossmember, and drove all through HS. It was a great car and was super fun to drive and got fairly decent gas mileage. Was a GT and found a guy to modify the tach so it worked with the V-8.😎
@@HelicopterDad-xk5sxI used a 2.3 out of either a Vega or Monza to power a log splitter about 30 years ago.
@@johneckert1365it probably burned enough oil to saturate the split wood with oil residue and made built in starting fluid.
A four year old car with no engine? Holy crap
@@catsaregovernmentspies
They drank oil thats for sure! All the local gas stations knew me as $10 and 2 quarts.
@@HelicopterDad-xk5sx
I went the buick 215 route, it was fun.
Man, that Hugger Orange example at the beginning of the video looks cool as heck with the Ermine White (or whatever) stripe. If they would've just built them with 307s, Vegas would've been near legendary - in a good way. They are not at all a bad looking car, the first iterations at least.
Wasn't that the point of the monza
@@eaglewiMonzas were pretty quick when they came with that 262 V8. They should've done that right from the start with the Vega.
@@johneckert1365 That would have missed the entire point of Vega. The POINT was to be an economy car, not a thirsty fire breathing V8. Vega was supposed to be able to take on the Japanese small cars as well as the venerable VW Beetle.
@@eaglewi Too bad the Monza`s were so UGLY !!!
I actually built a 72 Vega drag car with a 350 and that very paint scheme (orange w/white strip) not knowing it was a factory option till now. That being said my wife loved that car over all the other cars I’ve built
Id love to have a Vega. Or its replacement the Monza. Just love the styling
I would love a Monza Mirage but they are so rare
When I moved to the US in june 1972 my uncle brought a brand new Vega for $3800.00 I love the car. He ended up took it with him oversea. The US car during those day were nice and attractive to drive untl our jack asse CEO sold USA to CCP.
Never ever knew about this ridiculous idea and when I saw the windshield washer bottle I remembered the one in my Vega and why it always looked weird. Cheers 🇨🇦
It seems like it would've made more sense to just let the dealer fill the windshield washer reservoir. Maybe even use a temporary battery to load the cars, and then let the dealer install the permanent battery
@@johneckert1365 The car needed an installed battery to get from the rail head to the destination. Few dealers have rail heads.
Its comforting to know that if my dad had driven us off a cliff in our '73 Vega the engine would've kept running on the way down.
My Dad (who sold Chevys for almost 50 years) would tell us that the Vega’s during the winter months were delivered by truck in rural Midwest…after driving on roads of snow and salt would actually start to rust on showroom floors.
same here. 1948-1985. 3 generations. My 74 Vega GT wagon engine went at 12,000 miles. lol
News Flash every Car starts Rusting the day it leaves the Assembly line.
not really. cars are galvanized now. since 30 years in Europe.
Chevy trucks and Vans would rust out in weeks also...Square Body trucks kids were rust buckets!
@@skataskatata9236they are not galvanised.
They put so much engineering effort to make the Vega sit vertically.. but not enough engineering to make it sit right side up and drive properly..
😅😅
I'm old enough to remember the open rail car haulers. It was always cool to see them with all the new cars on display.
I remember them too.
I also remember seeing punks throw rocks at the new cars.
I was too young to do anything about it.
I will never understand why someone would screw over another person without any reason whatsoever?
These rock throwing punks were too young to have yet been screwed over by Chevrolet.
Then came the enclosed car carriers.
Not nearly as much fun to see.
Didn't know what they were hauling.
@@jstravelers4094. There has never been a shortage of young assholes in the history of mankind. My school days were full of them and they will never go away.
Very interesting video, Adam. I knew of the Vert-a-Pac rail cars but didn't realize all of the unique engineering required to make the system work.
Yeah, hard to figure how this made sense in the end. Redesigned rail cars, the cost of the engineering modifications, the fact that the whole system was created to ship one vehicle model, etc. Can’t imagine how GM concluded that it would save money. Evidently there is no surviving documentation that detailed the financial analysis?
Welcome to money laundering and tax write offs......
That one model (actually at least two models for different brands, and potentially more models with compatible dimensions and designs) was intended to be the company's big volume model line.
@@brianb-p6586 And, if the thing had worked well, they'd have used the same cars to ship their next new model, and the next one.
You know you could do months of videos featuring the innumerable disastrous decisions made my GM starting in the 70's
You could follow that up with months of videos featuring the innumerable disastrous decisions made by GM during the '80s.
I had a 1973 Vega that I bought for work at the time (1980 security guard in car). I had extra spark plugs in the toolbox so when it started to "miss" I would hop out change 2 plugs and be good to go till the next day. One time I forgot to bring extra oil with me and on the way home the car quit running. Come to find out that when the oil pressure was low it would shut the electric fuel pump off. They must have knew something about oil consumption before hand. Other than that and the rust it was a good car.
My first car was a '74 GT hatchback. I had it 3 years with only 1 problem. Rust around the underside front edges of the hood that worked its way around to the top. To replace for about half the price. From a racing magazine, I bought a fiberglass hood. Had it painted, and used 4 hood pins for a lift off hood. For the years I had it, it ran ok. Traded it in on a new Jeep CJ5.
so you traded a rusty body for a rusty frame
The money "saved" shipping could have been spent on making the car better .
What kind of thinking is this?
Interesting concept and execution but I think the Vegas started rusting right on the train. Bought a 72 Kammback in 74 and it took more oil than gas and doors and fenders rotted quickly.
Lol I remember the pile of 2X4 wood blocks that had to be removed from the motor mounts otherwise the car would shake like mad when the engine started! The picture of the engine shows the sealed air cleaner where you had to replace the entire assembly, or buy a kit to convert it over to a replaceable filter element. The Pinto may have been the better car, but the Vega offered so many more options like tilt wheel, full instrumentation (on the GT only?) driver's seat recline adjuster to name a few. And everyone wanted that 4 spoke Vega GT steering wheel for their hotrod! Never owned a Vega, but I did have a Monza Spyder with the Buick V6. I really liked that car, it was comfortable, and handled excellent! Seems the engineers didn't learn their lesson with the aluminum block, cast iron head Vega when they designed the Cadillac HT4100!
I never understood the iron head choice. Japanese and European manufacturers were already having success with aluminum heads, why couldn't GM......
Detroit Diesel made some aluminum blocked engines too, but they also had iron heads. I actually have 2 aluminum 3-53 Detroit Diesels in Vietnam War era vehicles called Gama Goats
@@johneckert1365 I'm guessing the 3-53 had cylinder liners like the other Detroit Diesel engines? The Vega engine if I remember doesn't have sleeves, just extra silicon to supposedly make the cylinder walls more durable! A neighbor used to have a 65 GMC pickup he put a 3-53 in, that truck sounded awesome!
@@joesmithjoesmith4284 Yes, the aluminum 53 series has cast iron wet sleeves just like the iron block ones do.
The later 2.3 was improved and called the "duratech" or something like that. They were much better than the early 2.3
@@johneckert1365Iron Duke.
@@garyszewc3339
Right, and that was larger @ 2.5L. That was the last year,... too late.
Looks like a mini Camaro
Many years ago I read, I believe in "Petersons Book Of Vega", that the car was intended to somewhat look like the little brother to the Camaro.
Very informative piece of 'automotive' history. Thank you.
I've always thought a great engine for the Vega would have been the aluminum 215 V8 that GM had already sold to Rover by that time. I've always had a desire to find a Vega and drop a Buick Nailhead in it too. I had a 401 with a Dynaflow out of a 63 Electra but sadly had to part ways with it when I last moved due to lack of space.
@edwardpate6128 I’ve always thought the same thing. Lightweight, compact, good power, and well developed. I wonder if GM’s thinking since this was their answer to VW, Datsun, Toyota, and others, might have been that offering a V8 would be too far removed from the focus on fuel savings.
I had installed a few 215 Buick engines in vegas. They were a fun car.
The 225 Buick would've been awesome too, small dimensional size, good power, efficient in a car the size of a Vega, that would've been a good fit
I agree that the 215 would have been a natural for this car, but GM had different visions for this car. It definitely wanted to go head to head with upper scale European small cars. Any overhead valve engine wouldn't have fit that imagine building exercise. The 215 did share some of the over heating issue that plague the Vega engine, but not as badly. It might also been viewed as too strong a competitor to the Camaro. Same styling in a smaller, lighter package with potentially the same performance.
@@cdjhyoung
The vega had cooling issues that was fix at the factory by cutting a cooling passage between the cylinders.
The 215s, I've worked on them built them and raced them never saw any over heat and some were hardly maintained at all.
Only problems I came across were cross threaded sparkplug holes but I don't know who did that, mechanics or DIYers.
I remember the hype the Vega was surrounded by when it was introduced. As a 17 yo new driver I was quite excited over the car, loved the styling, and was intrigued with the much touted “high silicon alloy aluminum cylinders”. Then my dad and I took a test drive at the dealership. Might have been one of the biggest disappointments of my teen years! The thing ran like crap, noisy, vibrations everywhere, and lousy power. That was the end of that story!
I learned to drive a manual transmission in my parents '72 Vega. I was around 12 years old at the time and still have lots of fond memories of that car.
Amazed at all those brand new Vegas. Very cool.
Southern Pacific Railroad and GM got about a dozen railroads to buy Vert-a-Pac cars. They only used them for a few years because they were too labor intensive and too different from other auto racks - that’s the name used for rail cars that carry vehicles. At the same time they developed this car, Southern Pacific and GM came up with the Stac-Pac cars. One of the photos shows those containers in the background. Each container held three Cadillacs. There were four containers to a flat car. Ten railroads had the containers and flat cars. Both cars fell out of favor as the railroads started enclosing the auto racks. The Vert-a-Pac and Stac-Pac cars were converted to standard auto racks that were partially enclosed
Some of the Stac-Pacs are visible at 7:10 in this video.
Interesting, I never seen that before. I like the early Vega's, they were cute and had potential for hot rodding. Love the pettibone forklifts, never seen the side lift model before either.
One of my favorite old cars. I had a 72 model that I did the V8 swap in and at that time you could get parts from Chevrolet that were in the factory V8 Monza. Motor mounts, oil pan, radiator, exhaust manifolds... except for the trans tunnel at the bell housing needing slight mods. it was practically a drop in. Mine got a 350/TH400 trans. It weighed 2,700 pounds.
Just buy a V8 Monza. I had a 78 and an 80. All you needed to do was swap out the 2.29 rear end ratio and it was fast
@@ItsReallyJackBlack at the time I was building my car you really could not find a v8-powered Monza and nowadays to find one would be practically impossible
@@willbar1961 I get that. I fooled with them in the mid to late 80s. They were in junkyards at the time if you looked. Unfortunately those A bodied didn't last long and were quick to get crushed. My 80 spider probably paid for itself in earnings from racing suckers. It was a street legal 2100 lb dry that looked almost stock
@@ItsReallyJackBlack i actually pulled parts from a V8 Monza Mirage (cool body kit) and bought the oil pan from a local Chevy dealer along with factory V8 motor mount pieces. Those were the days, easy to build and work on, fairly cheap too
@@willbar1961 The 196/ 231 v6 Monza actually were identical to the Small block ones. The only true unique V8 parts were the driver side exhaust manifold. But you could use an early truck log style and clear the steering. The few California 350 cars did have bigger radiators, but that was because of smog equipment. Plug changes were a pain. A 4 speed swap was a bolt in with V6 parts but the clutch wouldn't last very long.
When I used to live in south Germany, I would often see massive trains loaded with Audis passing trough the train station in Heidelberg, which I assume were being taken to the ports up north in Hamburg for exportation. It was impressive to see these trains with millions of dollars worth of cargo jus sitting there in front of you under the sun, snow or rain. Their solution was simply to cover the cars with some sort of transparent sticker plastic
South Germany?
What?
@@fastinradfordable
Yeah, southern part of Germany, never heard of it kid?
@@fastinradfordable Its part of the same country as North Germany. We call the whole thing "Deutschland". We tend to use the other two cardinal directions more often, has historical reasons. That however is a story for another day.
Imagine what a great car the Vega could have been if...
-the rust issue was resolved.
-four wheel disc brakes was an option.
-the 3800 V6 engine was offered as an engine choice.
The 3.8 Buick V6 was a pile of shit in the 70's and early 80's. By the time it went through it's changes and was reintroduced as the 3800, Vegas and Monzas were long gone........
V-6? in a Vega??? First time I've heard that one.
@@UberLummox They did put that junk early 3.8 Buick V-6 in some Monzas, which was very similar to a Vega
Just another failed venture, along with the Corvair and Fiero
@@georgeszilva1223 There was nothing at all inherently wrong with Fiero OR Corvair.
How very cool! GM was certainly trying to think outside the box with the Vega 2300 when it was introduced in late 1969 - up to and including this unique shipping method. I have to think you are correct, Adam - in that they didn't ultimately enjoy greater economies in shipping or lessen shipping damage enough to make much of a difference to the bottom line. I recall Chevrolet promoting Vert-A-Pac when they first introduced Vega with wide release of photos etc. to put the idea forward that Vega was truly a revolutionary new small car - even in the manner in which it was shipped. After the new model intro for the 1970 model year it was never promoted any further. I notice another unique shipping container in the background in one of the images where it looks like Chevy Novas are stacked two high and sideways. Another experiment that went away?
GM certainly never let shipping logistics stand in the way of getting whatever they needed. Another experiment on a grand scale - the "GM Air Bridge" - where Pininfarina-built bodies from Italy for the Cadillac Allante were air freighted on special 747's to Detroit for final assembly in the mid-1980's comes to mind.
They also made up specially modified semi truck enclosed trailers that were used to transport car bodies (Regal, Cutlass, Monte Carlo, El Camino, Grand Prix) from where they were assembled in Flint, Mi to the final assembly plant about 40 miles away in Pontiac, Mi. Lots of these trucks did laps up and down I-75 on a daily basis.
The containers in the background are the related Stac-a-Pac. They also didn't last long.
I guess? You said that a lot. Early Vegas had a high rate of warranty replacement for alternators with broken mounting points. It turned out that the amount of shock the cars were exposed to were higher than expected and components which hadn't experienced problems before became problems in vert-a-pack shipping. Vert-a-pack was far faster to load and unload than standard carriers because the standard rail cars had to be loaded from the end, requiring the rail cars to be uncoupled and ramps installed to drive the cars on and off while vert-a-pack loaded from the side. The tri-level and bi-level cars used today have ramps between cars so that 10 rail cars can be loaded from one open, uncoupled car entrance and off loaded the same way. Modern carriers are also over height and require special routing. One of the advantages of the current generation of carriers is that the cars are so well protected that sometimes the autos are stored at an unloading yard in their carriers until they are needed for delivery to the dealers lots.
In 2001 I worked for Ford and I opened the door of a new t bird that a wino had hitched a ride across America inside . It was the worst smell ever and we had to replace the seats and the carpet to get rid of the smell and even that was a little iffy . The insurance company put up a fight because they said "you signed for it " and that was true but when we inspected a car coming off of the car carrier we looked on the outside for sand blasted paint and chipped windows in a very quick way we never had vino damage before .It was from Fort Worth to LA I think.
If they had been able to use this technique for multiple vehicles for multiple years it might've been okay. But with all the train cars being built, and the modifications to the Vega to make it work. They most likely lost a lot of money
I wonder why they didn't use this technique for the soon to come X and J body cars 🤷♂️
I'm sure it cost them but they got 7 years for the vegas, and Pontiac Astra (not sure of the years of that.
Have seen many articles on this but never any mention if the monzas were shipped this way too. It was basically the same car.
They weren't as expensive as they look, because they were containers mounted on flat railcars (so the cars themselves were standards). The alternative wasn't free - cars are moved in special railcars anyway.
@@brianb-p6586 But those specialty cars are standardized. Even if you buy them yourself instead of renting capacity, it is cheaper than this design. And you do not have to build a whole new rail yard to load and unload them (because these take a huge amount of space to load).
With this video, you've hit on two of my big interests - cars AND trains! And not only that, having lived in California all my life most of the places I've lived were served by Southern Pacific. My little proto-lanced N scale layout is served by SP as well.
My grandfather was a train engineer for Southern Pacific for 30 years. My other grandfather work for them for 45 years and retired as the yard manager.
Got me thinking. I suppose this subject is covered over in trains forums as well with a little different twists. This shipping system probably led into what we see now with the enclosed car Haulers.
Vega was my first car in 1976 @ 16yo. Loved it! Had to keep a case of Pennzoil in the hatchback, and put more oil than gasoline in it, but I loved that car! There were some really cool looking dirt track late models built from these cars also!
That’s awesome that load cars like this! I never realized.
Growing up an Air Force brat in the USA and Europe I saw and experienced Opel cars. Everyone I knew loved them and they seemed to be reliable & easy to maintain. It's a shame the Vega didn't enjoy the same story, they seemed very similar to me.
Very cool.
Were the Opel cars you saw made in Germany ?
I have a 2018 Buick Regal TourX Wagon with All Wheel drive, made by Opel of Germany, GM division.
It was a somewhat rare model here, imported & sold by Buick for 2018 - 2020.
I've only seen 3 of them, including mine:
It's a crying shame GM didn't even advertise this amazing model.
GM has a funny way of self sabotaging promising designs.
I found your comment about Opel cars ironic in relation to this Vega video - never thought I'd own an Opel.
I'm sure the were European manufactured.@@psalm2forliberty577
I owned an Opel GT while stationed in Germany...The Opel GT was the little Corvette like the Vega was the little Camareo
Try that with the Imperial, right? But how about the color variety on those Vegas? Those were the days.
Imperial or Cadillac or Lincoln or Buick Electra 225 Limited wouldn't have fit that way.
I owned a Railcar repair shop where we removed the Vert-a-Pac structure. Lots of parts on the floors of these cars.
Most interesting and informative video you've posted yet. Keep posting.
The Mini Camaro.
I was long-aware of this shipping system for the Vega, but I was unaware of the specific changes to the vehicle to accommodate the novel shipping method. Thank you for that. It would have been interesting to have seen video footage of loading on/off. I’m sure it exists, and I can’t imagine that for all the effort to develop this system that GM didn’t memorialize/document it more fully. Nevertheless, a thoroughly enjoyable feature here. Thank you.
I had a cosworth model in the early 80’s, what a fun car that was to drive. I also had one of the last Bonneville’s to roll off the assembly line with a 455 and the 6 pack. It would pass just about anything except a gas station.
My summer job in the late ‘60’s was a “Driving Miss Daisy” scenario, looking after a rich old lady at her summer home while her husband worked in the city. Used to drive a Bonny 2 hrs. to take her to the airport to pick up the Mr. 17 years old and driving a massive luxury car. Loved it!
Yes!! I've been hoping you'd cover this!
Bean Counters were pound wise but penny foolish!
Kinda like the Pontiac Fiero. A fuel line made of rubber running across the top the heat producing engine = dry rot engine fires. Lawsuits then Huge recall to Retrofit w/ 100% metal fuel line
My mom used to say, of my dad, "He's book smart, and life dumb."
It was the railroad's idea not GM. The RRs saved money by transporting more autos on a given autorack.
I remember those autorack cars back in the day. iI also remember the Vega and Vega wagon
Facinating! Thank you for posting!
Something not mentioned here is that when the rail cars were in the classification yards , the railroads couldn't run them over " the hump " to switch them from one track to another in order to make up a train consist . They had to be moved around the rail yards the old fashioned way .
Thank you Adam. I had seen photos of this over the years but you provided more information and details and photos. It is appreciated. It was innovative at the time. Just think if it had been successful. GM used to be so innovative like this in many ways. The sad part is the car and the transport system did not survive.
These Vega trains and the Allante Boeings are some of the things I bring up when people ask me why I love GM.
Great video, have never heard anything about them before. Very interesting history, well told. Channels like this keep this motoring history alive, and would be forgotten otherwise. I love how they thought outside the box back then, not always practical, but interesting problem solving.. You have a new sub sir :)
Glad you enjoyed it
My personal memory of the Vega was, renting one in San Francico for a visit in the 70's and letting the Vega steer itself on the cable car tracks in downtown S.F. Realizing what a P.O.S.
offering it was! That was one of my, never buy a used rental car rule, because of people like me.
The amount of crap they had to do just to ship them like that begs the question WHY??? Even the rail cars were different!
Well vandalism was probably a lot of it, then how many can we get in.
Even today, every train that goes by is covered with graffiti. Even the autocars are covered. I've never been close enough to one but they look perforated/ventilated, makes me wonder how much damage to new cars
@@edmundanderson657probably some money laundering scheme or something.
Adam, this has GOT to be your most unique & fascinating entry ever! 👏
This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing this.
The really cool thing about this shipping method and modifications to the vehicles, was simply that if and when you drove it off a cliff or did a, shall we say, a “Thelma & Louise” , your Vega would run more efficiently while “nose down” in the flying position, giving the driver a much more confident feeling until said Vega hit the ground.😂
I wish you’d explain how they were held in place and why there was no damage to the front end of the cars. Did they somehow clamp onto each wheel rim and this way they didn’t slide down on the front and damage the bumper and front end of car? I was hoping to hear how this was done.
I got you fam. Go out and stick your head under any vehicle that is convenient for you. Look up at the frame structure and you will see oval diagonal cut outs in it. Those slots are the integrated shipping tie down system. I think every major manufacturer uses this system for moving the vehicles through the assembly plant and in shipping those points are used to secure the load as well. Some dealers put rubber plugs in them in the northern regions to help prevent salt and road slush from getting up there and rusting out. I hope that helps explain the method to you. With the Vega I would imagine they had a more robust tie down pad since the wheels and suspension are not assisting with taking a majority of the load off the straps but maybe ,maybe not
I heard they were hung on hooks.
Velcro
@@SKYNET9erreally? My assumption was duct tape.
@@danieldaniels7571 Giant magnets. 😀
Adam - I'd seen photos and quick blurbs on this, but this is the first "short form" video explanation i've ever seen. I, too, wondered about the fluids and how they would be handled when shipped vertically. really interesting. thanks for putting together.
Toured the Lordstown Facility with the Scouts in '74, got to see them loading these. My dad had a '71, nice looking car for it's time, got to eventually drive what was left of it a few times.
It was a decent looking car, I would have loved to have one when I was young based on looks alone. But the engine was crap.
It was styled to look like a baby Camaro
Perhaps the vertical shipping method caused the severe rust-out and oil burning in under a year.
The rust problem was due to the dipping process not filling all boxed in areas in the unibody.
@@davidyoung8521 Nah, recycled metal was used around then.
Railway Age:
"When Chevrolet was designing the Vega during the late 1960s, one of its main objectives was to keep the cost of the car down around $2,000 (in circa-1970 dollars). At the time, the freight charge for moving a loaded railcar from the Lordstown, Ohio, assembly plant to the Pacific coast-the longest distance cars produced at Lordstown would need to travel-was around $4,800. Since the Vega was a subcompact, it was possible to squeeze three more cars into an autorack, for a total of 18, instead of the usual 15. But that still worked out to around $300 per car-a substantial transportation charge (which dealers passed on to customers) for a $2,000 car. If Chevrolet could get more Vegas on a railroad car, the cost per unit of hauling them would go down.
...Engineers at General Motors and the Southern Pacific Railroad came up with a clever solution. Instead of loading the cars horizontally, they were to be placed vertically on a specially designed autorack called the Vert-A-Pac. Within the same dimensions of an 89-foot flatcar with a tri-level autorack, the Vert-A-Pac system could hold as many as 30 automobiles instead of 18, reducing the transportation charge per vehicle by about 40%."
As James May once said about something completely different, "It's an ingenious solution to a problem that never should've existed in the first place."
All those modifications were inexpensive and simple, really just choices of orientation, and as far as I know had no effect on the durability of the cars. The benefit of avoiding damage, vandalism, and theft was a great money saver, as was shipping 30 instead of 18 per rail car. I suspect it was a net benefit, BUT... the Vega was very low-slung, and perhaps not imagined to work on future small GM cars like the Cavalier.
Never mind about the size-Cavalier was the same height.
@jamesengland7461 I'm still wondering why they didn't use this method on the X or J body cars a decade later 🤷♂️
Were Monzas shipped this way as well?
So much emphasis on packaging, so little on the product: Kind of like dating a real looker who turns out to be an expensive lesson.
A friend that works at a large car dealership body shop tells me that nearly half their body shop work involves shipping damage even today
During the 1970's you could spot a Vega by the cloud of white smoke in traffic or in a parking lot, GM's Bad Reputation created many happy Datsun and Toyota loyal customers !
Thanks. Adam you answered a lot of questions but not about Radiator coolant and brake fluid & P.S fluid and just how much gasoline was put in at the factory and I just do not accept that there were no leaks on any thing there must have been Engine oil and transmission oil And radiator coolant and differential leaks and some batteries that did not get proper hold downs must have created a problem and what procedures were taken the first time those little Vega 4 bangers got cranked over I bet they belched smoke for an hour if the truth ever comes out I would say that contributed to their demise from being in that inverted position for how long ????? And if this shipping method was so innovative what brought its demise because they still produce compact cars to this day
You raise some great points.. Another example of a half baked idea from GM.
Weren’t all Vegas produced at Lordstown, Ohio? This is 1000 miles from SP’s territory. This is also the part of the US with the tightest overhead clearances- why Amtrak can’t run its double-decker passenger cars east of Chicago.
also assembled in southern California for the 75 model
Amtrak Superliner cars can't be used in the NE due to the electric trolley wiring, not bridges.
4:09. My dad worked in the railroad industry at the time. He explained to me that the oil pan was extended forward to catch the oil when the car was vertical.
Wow. Hadn't heard about this before. Cool info! Thanks!
In the photo at 7:11 you can also see the other failed GM transport innovation at the time with boxes of 3 cars/piece.
I can't imagine that the worker shown in that photo under the half-closed door would get OSHA's stamp of approval.
It never ceases to amaze me how much gm blows on these crazy ideas, and scrapes every penny of cost out of the product it sells.
it is called innovation ...you never know until you try it..
Truly thinking outside of the box. But not always THE solution. Never heard about this shipping method before so, it's a good day today! From Canada, Peace Out!!
Well put together……. Thanks for sharing 👍
My uncle had a forest green metallic Vega with a tan interior. I think it was a hatchback(?). It was beautiful. Too bad the engineering wasn’t as good.
Amazing i wonder how the ramps/ doors were latched
The rail cars would seem to be trippy but I guess they weren't
This was fascinating Adam. Top Shelf content as always. Thank You
I owned 2 Vega back in the early 80's. The first was a 74 wagon, it burned more oil than gas, and we joked we needed a 55 gallon drum attached to the roof and a hose run to the engine. Being young and dumb, I put a pair of home speakers in the back with an amp and cranked it up. Sounded good until we heard a crash and then it sounded weird. Blew the glass out of the back door. My second was a 72 Vega that had very little rust, only at the B pillar and rocker. It had a 1977 engine with the sleeve, Teflon valve guides, 1975 ignition system, and AC. Never burned oil, ran great until the fan decided to pull the water pump apart. For those who don't know the Vega engine, the valve train is powered by a belt that uses the water pump for tension, the pulley is attached to the stub that the fan, which was direct drive, is bolted to. It pulled itself right into the radiator and killed the engine. I was able to fix it, but sold it soon after. It had a 2 speed powerglide with a top speed of 95 MPH.
I'm guessing that 500 $ re-designs to ship vertical saved 50 $ on shipping. Cost effective ?
Why were the cars not shipped dry and let the dealer fill the fluids?
I asked the same question 🤔
If the cars were dry, you would not be able to drive them on or off of the railcar or final destination transport truck.
@@danielulz1640 Yeah the more I thought about it I got to the same conclusion. 👍
Fascinating history. I love cars and trains, and put 'em together ... well, you know what I mean, great video :-)
GMs dirigible vehicular delivery system deserves its own video.
if only they'd spent more time engineering the car than the train, they might still be around.
Unfortunately, this also inadvertently gave us one of Chevy’s worst inventions. The side post battery. Thanks for that.
Truly fascinating. Thank you.
Fantastic video! Never heard of this. Love your relaxed, intellectual yet down to earth style of conveying information. I remember the Vega clearly. My sixth grade teacher had one as did some of my high school classmates. With a few tweaks and a very slightly higher sticker price, it could’ve been a great car.
It's always baffled me why the Vega had so many reliability issues. Why didn't testing reveal the engine durability problems? Was prototype testing even done on these cars? Were the results simply ignored? I remember reading that Vegas were often vandalized at the factory before shipping. The shipping solution was novel but ultimately a bad idea.
They were vandalized by accountants and cost-cutting engineers before the first one was assembled.
GM never proved out the "handling" of a pre 64 Corvair either, especially the wagon. Ask deceased comedian Ernie Kovacs, or me. I nearly rolled over my Dad's 61 Corvair wagon. I didn't dare tell him what really happened. Anyway, when he brought it back from our neighbor mechanic (also) Ernie, who worked full time at a Chevrolet dealership, he said to me- "Ernie told me to tell you next time you go around a corner, go around on 4 wheels, not two". Not the first time Ernie saw the issue. Gotta wonder how this stuff gets through the "proving grounds". Both the Corvair and the Vega could still be around. It's a shame, they deserved a better fate.
Good point. The non-viability of the aluminum cylinder walls should have been found in testing. I would think any engineer would immediately question that design feature. Steel sleeves would have solved it. GM had already designed the 215 aluminum V8. I read it had the aluminum block poured around ripple patterned sleeves. I also read there was a very high percentage of those blocks had to be scrapped. Maybe that is why they thought they could get away without a sleeve. Too bad they just did not make the blocks from cast iron.