Hi Guys! I know I made this video a long time ago! I obviously wasn't educated very well. IF you would like me to make a updated video on this please let me know!
I've said it before and I will say it until people learn. A moment of over flextion can release a tight spot. Asking for a bit too much for a moment can loosen a sore muscle. However, no horse should ever be asked to work in this position for more than the few seconds it takes to release a stiffness. If I am weightlifting, I might stop and stretch my arm behind my head to relieve tension, but I would never continue the lifting in this position. We are the personal trainers for these animals. It is our responsibility to keep them safe, happy, and healthy. A momentary stretch is not how any personal trainer asks their client to lift the weight. We, as their trainers, should respect the bodies of our real clients, the horses.
Agree totally with what you said. However, my chiropractor gave me a series of stretches for my horse to do. So I would do them BEFORE I rode. This way, you have loosened up the muscles before I got on. After my chiropractor taught me these exercises, I always used them. I used them even in days we didn't ride. It turned out, my horse improved his muscles so much his back came up by several inches! My chiropractor was thrilled with the results. In addition I would add any other amount of stretches could be done at the walk while warming up. There is definitely no place for any of that during a test. Probably in this case. Be cause of Rollkur, that's why the horse is " stiff " in the first place.
U can say and say phrases like that forever. As long as u do not fight for it to make it happen and fight for justice. The horses are continually used and destroyed. Or do u actually think words are strong enough to end that? U really have to go the court. Words in hope and to speak out truth is not strong enough to end that what the horses there are made for - to bring money.
Its horrible what some people do to horses😥. It looks so uncomfortable and unnatural. People who do this or agrees with rollker are just disgusting. These poor horses. Ty for making this video to show what rolker is. Hope everything well🙂 stay safe
I wouldn't say collection here- collection has more to do with the use of the back and hind legs than with head position. But this is a good video in that it shows that a horse working in a dressage frame is different from rolkur.
You should make a video, showing how rollkur affects the horses field of vision, vs what they see in collection. As many people are uneducated in how the horses eyes actually work. Also, there's a big difference in how you ride a horse, LDR correctly, as many people confuse rollkur with being long deep and round... Not understanding that the round part is meant to be over the back, and has nothing to do with the neck..
0:42 Weymouth parallel to the ground ( curb chain will be digging into the chin with increased poll pressure ). Exaggerated elevation of forelegs. Horse very ‘front heavy’. It’s not only cruel, it’s unnatural.
This is terrible. Some people don’t deserve horses and need to stop what they’re doing. Then we say it’s ok cause it’s apart of culture and we don’t care about the horses. I try to stick up for riders and horses but it’s always it’s fine the horse needs it or it’s apart of there culture stop and it’s asenine to think we let abuse slip cause of it.
I always learned Collection by slowly gatering the the reins while applying pressure with your legs. I have never needed these double reins and horrible bits just a snaffle. Hyperflexion takes away the horses sight by creating blind spots. It also doesn't mean you have colleted your horse underneath you. All you did was putting your horses head in an unatural position. While collecting gives him time to get ready to work with you as one unit. I really don't understand why people find it necessary to use horrible bits and hyperflex their horse because it creates neck and back for the horse wich means it ends up not wanting to be ridden. It will need chiropractic care to move the bones of the neck and back, into aliment again. Als of this could be prevented by learning to ride and collect your horse.
Collection can never be forced, it has to be offered from the horse. And it has nothing to do with the neck or head position, but how the horse carries its weight through its body.. The head position, is one of the last things that fall into place, when the horse falls into collection in our hands. It can carry itself perfectly well, in front of the vertical, but never behind it, as it creates tension. Weak horses will fall behind the vertical during training their strength, which is why I don't want people to focus on the head or neck position, when they are riding, but how the horse feels under their seat, is it hollow in the back, can you make the horse step better under itself, so it lifts its back, without it going faster? Does it lean the shoulder in, or does it loop around your leg aid? That's what's important, the head will automatically fall into place, as all the other puzzles are done. A soft flexible body, with a calm focused head, is what brings collection.
I cant watch this. The horses eye is sheer terror, says it all, its frightening. It is time for everyone to step back and realise what a beautiful animal the horse is and start giving it The respect it deserves
All of the horses shown as "collection" examples are incorrect. The third vertebra should not be the highest point on the horse's body. The rider should be able to see all of the crown piece of the bridle from the saddle. A vertical line dropped from the horse's eye to the ground should pass behind the corner of the horse's mouth. Overbending the horse's neck to any extent is never correct.
Someone gave me a 20 year old horse once whom I took in as a companion for another. This poor thing remained in an over-bent position even while being led around on a loose rein!! I was shocked the first time I rode him. Just wanted to see how he went. He hadn’t been ridden in many years, but here he was - I led him out after being tacked and he tucked his chin in to his chest! Even leading him around with a halter and loose lead he tucked. Thankfully he was just a companion and I never rode him anymore. He had been ruined with nasty draw reins.
@@emotionalequestrian23 Oh yes I agree. I'm a rider myself with 55 years of experience (but I'm no expert!). I'm just speaking about these rogues that do mistreat their horses.
Wow, I didn't know this is a change that has taken place. I was always taught the head/nose should be perpendicular to the ground...anything more is, overextended and not collection and balance.
Modern dressage is no different than any other show horse sport. The concepts of classical dressage was to increase the working life of the horse. This is definitely not going on in today's dressage world, today we are looking for a fancy horse with unnatural movement. The horses are forced to wear their nose bands excruciatingly tight so that they can't evade the bit. The riders are water-skiing, pulling the horses heads behind the vertical because it looks showy for the crowd. This is what show people wow the judges with. Correct riding isn't cute it's functional. There is no place in show riding for functional riding.
Exactly. I was schooled in the classical model and after many years am returning to the sport. I don't think I want a trainer; I would rather have a sound middle aged horse to school for our mutual pleasure rather than dealing with "trainers" who hew to methods and seats that no doubt have my riding masters of old spinning in their graves.
But what about horses like Fresians and Spanish breeds that are built in a way that encourages them to "eat their chins", and are built with the high set and curved neck??
It's much easier to hold the horses head in this position, while riding a collection, is way more work for the rider.. Collection means that you have to be constantly adjusting to the horse, you need to give and take, so the horse has the right support in the different changes.. Rollkur means that you can fix the horses head in one position, and it's actually also easier for the horse, because it isn't actually working through its body, which is why they have these legs going everywhere.. It creates flashy movements, while collection is controlled movement. You don't see legs flopping around in collection, because the horse is in a balanced controlled body.. Think about it as strings, in rollkur, the "collection" is forced, and fake. Which means that the strings are lose, which again creates those floppy but flashy movements.. In true collection, those strings are tight, so every movement the horse does, affects or are affected by the strings.. Which gives this rhythmic, calm, but powerful movement.. Levade, is the most collected motion you can train your horse to do. The piaffe, is the build up into the Levade.. It's where you keep the engagement and the rhythm of the trot, into a stop, where the horse then trot on the spot, and as there's no way forward, this forces the movement up.. The horse will lower its bum, and lift its front, but continue to trot, almost like it's trotting up an invisible mountain. This position the horse to be balanced for the levade, which is a controlled, balanced rearing up.. This was used during combat, to either push the other horse out of balance, or just give leverage for the rider to fight the other rider.. Dressage started as a form for control during combat on horseback. The horses should be able to move in a way, that didn't make the rider lose balance. It was all about rideablity and maneuvers, that kept you close to the enemy, in balance and control.. Also, they rode with one hand, as the other one was used to hold the weapon. So today's dressage competition, is a joke...
Videos that show pictures and don't educate are not effective . Collection is when a horse changes his center of gravity closer to the for hand . The horse carrying more weight on his hind end. It was in my understanding that overflxion is a suppling exercise not a collection exercise. Their are horses that will use overflexion as a form of resistance. And their are riders who use overflexion as a way to soften a resistant poll. Not the ideal way for training but for some horses it was a means to the desired result . Should not be used in the warm up ring or in competition.
In 0:40 and much more worse in 1:28 it looks as if the rider needs to use his whole body as a counter weight to pull the horse's nose down onto its chest. His own heels pushing straight down and he braces himself into it, to force the horse head down. This is brutal and absolutely disgusting! Such riders shall be disqualified, even if this happens "just in the warm up"
Hyperflexion occurs when the horse is behind the vertical! It does not matter if it is by force or a learned behaviour (bad training, hard hands, pain response). Hyperflexion is very damaging. Studies have shown that even if the horses are ridden just slightly behind the vertical, it can cause severe health problems. Your examples of "collection" show horses that are BEHIND the vertical! Horses should always be IN FRONT of the vertical.
Hi Guys! I know I made this video a long time ago! I obviously wasn't educated very well. IF you would like me to make a updated video on this please let me know!
I've said it before and I will say it until people learn. A moment of over flextion can release a tight spot. Asking for a bit too much for a moment can loosen a sore muscle. However, no horse should ever be asked to work in this position for more than the few seconds it takes to release a stiffness. If I am weightlifting, I might stop and stretch my arm behind my head to relieve tension, but I would never continue the lifting in this position. We are the personal trainers for these animals. It is our responsibility to keep them safe, happy, and healthy. A momentary stretch is not how any personal trainer asks their client to lift the weight. We, as their trainers, should respect the bodies of our real clients, the horses.
Agree totally with what you said. However, my chiropractor gave me a series of stretches for my horse to do. So I would do them BEFORE I rode. This way, you have loosened up the muscles before I got on. After my chiropractor taught me these exercises, I always used them. I used them even in days we didn't ride. It turned out, my horse improved his muscles so much his back came up by several inches! My chiropractor was thrilled with the results. In addition I would add any other amount of stretches could be done at the walk while warming up. There is definitely no place for any of that during a test. Probably in this case. Be cause of Rollkur, that's why the horse is " stiff " in the first place.
Agree
U can say and say phrases like that forever. As long as u do not fight for it to make it happen and fight for justice. The horses are continually used and destroyed. Or do u actually think words are strong enough to end that? U really have to go the court. Words in hope and to speak out truth is not strong enough to end that what the horses there are made for - to bring money.
Absolutely. Horses deserve kindness too not force. I hate rolkur. Hate the term. It is abuse plain and simple.
Please note: There is no picture of real COLLECTION in the video.
Easy way to check: Nose must be in front of the vertical, poll must be the highest point.
AMEN!
Its horrible what some people do to horses😥. It looks so uncomfortable and unnatural. People who do this or agrees with rollker are just disgusting. These poor horses. Ty for making this video to show what rolker is.
Hope everything well🙂 stay safe
I wouldn't say collection here- collection has more to do with the use of the back and hind legs than with head position. But this is a good video in that it shows that a horse working in a dressage frame is different from rolkur.
I agree. Collection implies gathering impulsion. When you gather impulsion you get suspension (cadence).
You should make a video, showing how rollkur affects the horses field of vision, vs what they see in collection.
As many people are uneducated in how the horses eyes actually work.
Also, there's a big difference in how you ride a horse, LDR correctly, as many people confuse rollkur with being long deep and round...
Not understanding that the round part is meant to be over the back, and has nothing to do with the neck..
Oooo good idea! I’ll keep it In mind! 🙃
0:42 Weymouth parallel to the ground ( curb chain will be digging into the chin with increased poll pressure ). Exaggerated elevation of forelegs. Horse very ‘front heavy’. It’s not only cruel, it’s unnatural.
This is terrible. Some people don’t deserve horses and need to stop what they’re doing. Then we say it’s ok cause it’s apart of culture and we don’t care about the horses. I try to stick up for riders and horses but it’s always it’s fine the horse needs it or it’s apart of there culture stop and it’s asenine to think we let abuse slip cause of it.
I always learned Collection by slowly gatering the the reins while applying pressure with your legs. I have never needed these double reins and horrible bits just a snaffle. Hyperflexion takes away the horses sight by creating blind spots. It also doesn't mean you have colleted your horse underneath you. All you did was putting your horses head in an unatural position. While collecting gives him time to get ready to work with you as one unit. I really don't understand why people find it necessary to use horrible bits and hyperflex their horse because it creates neck and back for the horse wich means it ends up not wanting to be ridden. It will need chiropractic care to move the bones of the neck and back, into aliment again. Als of this could be prevented by learning to ride and collect your horse.
Collection can never be forced, it has to be offered from the horse.
And it has nothing to do with the neck or head position, but how the horse carries its weight through its body..
The head position, is one of the last things that fall into place, when the horse falls into collection in our hands.
It can carry itself perfectly well, in front of the vertical, but never behind it, as it creates tension.
Weak horses will fall behind the vertical during training their strength, which is why I don't want people to focus on the head or neck position, when they are riding, but how the horse feels under their seat, is it hollow in the back, can you make the horse step better under itself, so it lifts its back, without it going faster?
Does it lean the shoulder in, or does it loop around your leg aid?
That's what's important, the head will automatically fall into place, as all the other puzzles are done.
A soft flexible body, with a calm focused head, is what brings collection.
@@Galemor1
Excellent explanation, you put into words what I could not. 👏
The sad thing is... that black horse is Totilas
Wtf
I cant watch this. The horses eye is sheer terror, says it all, its frightening. It is time for everyone to step back and realise what a beautiful animal the horse is and start giving it
The respect it deserves
All of the horses shown as "collection" examples are incorrect.
The third vertebra should not be the highest point on the horse's body. The rider should be able to see all of the crown piece of the bridle from the saddle. A vertical line dropped from the horse's eye to the ground should pass behind the corner of the horse's mouth.
Overbending the horse's neck to any extent is never correct.
Someone gave me a 20 year old horse once whom I took in as a companion for another. This poor thing remained in an over-bent position even while being led around on a loose rein!! I was shocked the first time I rode him. Just wanted to see how he went. He hadn’t been ridden in many years, but here he was - I led him out after being tacked and he tucked his chin in to his chest! Even leading him around with a halter and loose lead he tucked. Thankfully he was just a companion and I never rode him anymore. He had been ruined with nasty draw reins.
why would you do this to your companion? i wouldn’t do that to my best friend, why would you do it to your horse?
EXACTLY! Thank you for understanding
Because these people are egomaniacs and they don’t care a fig about their horses. The horses are just there to be used and make money 😬
@@dnr2089 Most equestrians really do care and love there horses but other people like the racing industry really dont
@@emotionalequestrian23 Oh yes I agree. I'm a rider myself with 55 years of experience (but I'm no expert!). I'm just speaking about these rogues that do mistreat their horses.
Because people don't want to put in the time and effort to learn to collect a horse .
You understand rollker, however, you might want to study collection more.
The first few examples just made me heart sink. 😢
ROLKUR needs to be banned- NOW 🤮🤮🤮
Agree
The ears need to be the top most part of the horse, not the middle of the neck. You did not show collection but yes rollkür is horrible.
That’s terrible. They should be eliminated and investigated for animal abuse doing that. That’s horrible.
Es ist eine Schande für den Reitsport. Diese armen,gequälten Pferde. Es gehört verboten 😑
Genau! Siehe bitte meinen Kommentar auf englisch weiter oben.
Wow, I didn't know this is a change that has taken place. I was always taught the head/nose should be perpendicular to the ground...anything more is, overextended and not collection and balance.
Why is this not banned???!!! 😡
it is but some of the people who are judging don't care
Why indeed..........
Modern dressage is no different than any other show horse sport.
The concepts of classical dressage was to increase the working life of the horse. This is definitely not going on in today's dressage world, today we are looking for a fancy horse with unnatural movement.
The horses are forced to wear their nose bands excruciatingly tight so that they can't evade the bit. The riders are water-skiing, pulling the horses heads behind the vertical because it looks showy for the crowd.
This is what show people wow the judges with. Correct riding isn't cute it's functional. There is no place in show riding for functional riding.
Exactly. I was schooled in the classical model and after many years am returning to the sport. I don't think I want a trainer; I would rather have a sound middle aged horse to school for our mutual pleasure rather than dealing with "trainers" who hew to methods and seats that no doubt have my riding masters of old spinning in their graves.
I 100% agree with this video. Rollkur and collection are completely different things, rollkur is animal abuse, and collection is not.
It always turns my stomach to see horses bullied this way. This is abusive.
Stop I am going to cry 😭
Collection implies gathering impulsion! Not just the reins
But what about horses like Fresians and Spanish breeds that are built in a way that encourages them to "eat their chins", and are built with the high set and curved neck??
Well, that is when training comes into play…
As a bystander just learning about dressage, I don't understand why someone would use rollkur?
To make them “look pretty “ or there just too dam lazy to teach the horse to be soft
You have already risen to a level some at the highest levels never understand!!!
Because it has been successful in competition.
It's much easier to hold the horses head in this position, while riding a collection, is way more work for the rider..
Collection means that you have to be constantly adjusting to the horse, you need to give and take, so the horse has the right support in the different changes..
Rollkur means that you can fix the horses head in one position, and it's actually also easier for the horse, because it isn't actually working through its body, which is why they have these legs going everywhere..
It creates flashy movements, while collection is controlled movement. You don't see legs flopping around in collection, because the horse is in a balanced controlled body..
Think about it as strings, in rollkur, the "collection" is forced, and fake. Which means that the strings are lose, which again creates those floppy but flashy movements..
In true collection, those strings are tight, so every movement the horse does, affects or are affected by the strings.. Which gives this rhythmic, calm, but powerful movement..
Levade, is the most collected motion you can train your horse to do.
The piaffe, is the build up into the Levade..
It's where you keep the engagement and the rhythm of the trot, into a stop, where the horse then trot on the spot, and as there's no way forward, this forces the movement up..
The horse will lower its bum, and lift its front, but continue to trot, almost like it's trotting up an invisible mountain.
This position the horse to be balanced for the levade, which is a controlled, balanced rearing up..
This was used during combat, to either push the other horse out of balance, or just give leverage for the rider to fight the other rider..
Dressage started as a form for control during combat on horseback.
The horses should be able to move in a way, that didn't make the rider lose balance.
It was all about rideablity and maneuvers, that kept you close to the enemy, in balance and control..
Also, they rode with one hand, as the other one was used to hold the weapon.
So today's dressage competition, is a joke...
Videos that show pictures and don't educate are not effective . Collection is when a horse changes his center of gravity closer to the for hand . The horse carrying more weight on his hind end.
It was in my understanding that overflxion is a suppling exercise not a collection exercise.
Their are horses that will use overflexion as a form of resistance. And their are riders who use overflexion as a way to soften a resistant poll. Not the ideal way for training but for some horses it was a means to the desired result . Should not be used in the warm up ring or in competition.
Hm, even the horses shown as “good” examples were behind the vertical…
Collection is when you use your bum and legs to push the horse from behind and engage the hindquarters
In 0:40 and much more worse in 1:28 it looks as if the rider needs to use his whole body as a counter weight to pull the horse's nose down onto its chest. His own heels pushing straight down and he braces himself into it, to force the horse head down. This is brutal and absolutely disgusting! Such riders shall be disqualified, even if this happens "just in the warm up"
0:21 Is that Totilas?
yep!
Poor King of dressage
Hyperflexion occurs when the horse is behind the vertical! It does not matter if it is by force or a learned behaviour (bad training, hard hands, pain response). Hyperflexion is very damaging. Studies have shown that even if the horses are ridden just slightly behind the vertical, it can cause severe health problems. Your examples of "collection" show horses that are BEHIND the vertical! Horses should always be IN FRONT of the vertical.
Why are you explaining, this way of riding is damaging to the horse. Enough is enough
The human societies PR self a should suit to outlaw this
Poor horses 😢
Horses that are overbent, then spurred at painful to watch.
🤢🤢
It’s horrible stop doing that it hurts the horse limits his breathing ect ect
Sofort disqualifizieren und erst wieder zulassen wenn sie reiten gelernt haben