Gettysburg Wargame at Lee’s Headquarters
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- In partnership with @LittleWarsTV the American Battlefield Trust revisited the greatest battle in American history to see if Robert E Lee could avoid making the same mistakes. Played inside the historic "Lee Headquarters" building at Gettysburg, a team of wargaming pros From Little Wars TV matched wits against a team of professional historians from the American Battlefield Trust to refight the entire three day battle on a custom 8'x6' tabletop with thousands of hand painted 6mm miniatures. In the month leading up to the game, we polled the public on a series of critical command decisions for each army. Nearly 10,000 votes were cast, and your votes determined some of the key orders given to the players on each side of this game. What orders did you issue and how will Lee and Meade fare 156 years later at Gettysburg?
Check out a video about the rules for the game at: • Altar of Freedom Rule ... or visit the rules website at www.6mmacw.com/
Check out more wargaming from Little Wars TV at / @littlewarstv
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"I intend to pressure those people east of the city on the flank unless ordered otherwise" *reads orders* "i have decided, otherwise"
My vote for a second battle would be Antietam. Lee's first invasion of the North. Can the Union army use the two unused corps to finish off the Army of Northern Virginia?
Stevefe Little Wars TV did Antietam a while back but I agree it would be interesting to see them do it in more of this format.
*Game Spoilers*
Their Antietam game ended in a complete rout for the rebels where there army was almost entirely destroyed.
Shiloh would be a good one too
Do you mean SHARPSBURG?.
Hyperkid7 the south would of won if some southern scout did not take a pee and drop lees battle feild plans
Luke Derkovitz the union wasnt too weak on any area of their line, and lee still would have likely charged the middle
I’m an Englishman living in New Zealand who is fascinated by the U.S civil war. Very enjoyable watch, well done.
Me to but i’m dutch
Thanks Baz, I'm an American who is fascinated by British war history. Please to meet you.
Michael 732. Up the RED COATS and down the colonials! Went to Boston many years ago which was fascinating and then went down to D.C. I didn’t realize how close Gettysburg was and didn’t go. Definitely on my bucket list.
@@bazd884 DC is just a walk down the road. A 3 day march.
May I know why?
Steve : "And take those hills... if practicable"
Random viewers : "..... Okay"
Civil war enthusiasts : "Man... that's deep!"
Heh. This. I didn't know a thing about the U.S Civil War a few years back. Then I attended a UK re-enactment, wound up photographing US Civil War reenactors over a year (it's a thing in Britain too!) and next thing I know I'm flying over to spend a weekend in Gettysburg and walking Cemetery Hill. I wound up just completely hooked. And now phrases like, "Sir... I have no division," make my British stiff upper lip wobble. x
Peter Evans Pickett 👍🏼
@@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures Great wargamers you Brits. ;-)
@@billd.iniowa2263 Yeah, you may or may not know... we (the British) really like war, or used to from about 400 AD to 1950 AD, I would say. I guess others like war more, though... Rome has to take the cake, no? 500 BC to 1945 AD... or, Greece, I guess... 800 BC to 2020 AD (half joking, of course). Shocking to many, the French have started more wars than any other nation in total looking at the data, and America has not started many, stopped many, and has not invaded many other nations (though they are far away and, in theory, have only existed for around 300 years, but still, that's impressive given how powerful they are). Of course, Americans have been heavily into war since 1941, though it kind of stopped by 1980 other than a few things in the Middle East. But, I digress.
“If practicable.” Those two words....
And, yes, Hood to the right....
"If practicable"
General Lee himself said those two words cost him the battle. The order should have been at any cost.
This actually looks like fun
Hopefully they do WW1 and 2 battles
cristopher wong I know that
WW1 battles would be a little like this
Option A: rush for the next trench
Option B: wait the enemy for a rush
Repeat by 75
Congratulations! You've won half a mile! Only 360 more to reach Berlin!
Mr. Money that would work but I was thinking more of the major battles like Verdun or the Somme or the Russian civil war
I feel there should be a boardgame of this.
Mr. Money and you lost 50,000 men
I had been a tabletop general years ago. To watch this and the interaction with viewers is most satisfying wish my old keens worked
Fascinating to integrate people into history. Voted key decisions, well-dressed re-enactors, quality table layout and so forth help bring into the modern mind the fog of war and uncertainties that surround pivotal battles
I'm such a geak. I watch the entire video talking to the screen. Arguing even. Would love to see this once a year. Or other battles.. Fredericksburg perhaps???
To anyone who likes to do "what ifs" on the Civil war. I highly recommend the pc game "Ultimate General: Civil war" Or if you only want the battle of Gettysburg. The game "Ultimate General: Gettysburg" They are really good indepth tactics games..
Too bad Civil War abandoned the system where you completely control what you do on the battle & instead have to follow scripted events, but it's still a good game
@@papovka agreed
@@papovka
I agree
Can I also recommend 'Scourge of War: Gettysburg' which you can play in 1st person on 3D terrain and in which you have to rely on the reports brought to you by either your AI or human officers in ordering your units? Played a multiplayer game where as a newbie I was asked to hold the northern end where no significant action was expected, and where the Rebs attacked in full force. A three hour battle in which I was sweating bullets, begging for reinforcements from my three human allies, and now-and-again intercepting equally desperate demands from captured couriers between the human confederate officers opposing me. Old but brilliant game.
I’d love to see another one of these at a different battle site. Maybe Chancellorsville.
Check out what Little Wars has to offer on their channel: ua-cam.com/channels/D6gPsr1xdvT9F4dntRAJ5g.htmlfeatured?disable_polymer=1
This was very entertaining. Could you do one about a different battle. Like Fredericksburg or Chickamaga Creek.
Lucky ducks! Getting to war game in Lee’s headquarters!
Kent Brockman: "At the risk of sounding controversial, I'm placing the blame squarely on you, the viewers." This was brilliant, so much so I kind of wish it was longer. Got shivers seeing the Confederates claim Cemetery Ridge with their colours, then grinned like a loon with Sickles just throwing himself about like a madman. And that poor John Reynolds? Man, guy can't catch a break. And if you're pondering visiting the battlefield but never have, I say definitely do it. Fulfilled a bucket-list ambition last year flying over the pond and seeing it for myself. Incredible experience. (And also, some really good bars in Gettysburg. How was the Confederate advance not slowed by that?)
Wow! This is really great content! How does one vote for the decisions? It's so interesting to see how different people in charge make different outcomes. Oh my god I love that Ewell guy's attempt at a Southern accent.
I'm surprised that Sickles didn't violate every order.
This is absolutely incredible! What a rush that must have been!
I would love to see something like that happen again! Such an interesting way of going about it!
Outfu@ki*gstanding! Truly a remarkable half hour of "What might have been!" Thank you so much!
this was a fantastic game you guys played. Thanks for playing this great battle.
I had this board game from Avalon Hill and refought the battle many times with my friends. Brings back memories 👍🏻❤️
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the game called Johnny reb, this game is called altar of freedom
Comander Bacara no the game i had was called ‘Gettysburg’. Don’t recall a Johnny Reb game. They also made one called ‘Chancellorsville’ if I remember right
imagine there are actual general commanding the whole military drill irl , that will be sick
Okay, watching the player run across the road with his hat on the sword made me laugh out loud.
Good game guys; however, what is the rule set?
Altar of Freedom. $15.00 US for PDF.
I looked up modern war footage and it gave me this. Thank god i love these guys
Very interesting the analysis of the battle. Good wishes!
An army outnumbered 3/2 should not assault defences and entrenched troops who have a height advantage as well...no matter how desperate the cause or how great their personal elan is .
Lee thought he needed a decisive offensive battle on northern soil to end the war!
@@stevep5408 -Well that decisive battle on northern soil did effectively mark the end for the south .The combined July 4 1863 defeats at Gettysburg and Vicksburg cost the south international recognition by Great Britain and France.
Yeah, I think it's clear that Lee's strategy should have been to get the Union to attack his entrenched troops rather than attacking the Union entrenched positions.
@@martynspeck
No, Lee's army was outgunned and out supplied. How could he entice the union into attacking? The union would just sit there and bombard him. If he were to retreat, the union would be able to attack him easily, as they were not far apart, or, at the very least, they would send dragoons to harass them.
@@j.franklin21 -The Anaconda plan suggested by General Winfield Scott had largely isolated the south economically.While it is true that the federalists enjoyed a tremendous logistical advantage the popular pressure for swift and decisive actions often forced their hand.
It was a brutal battle. With 42k deaths between both sides.
www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/gettysburg
Michael Hill I meant in the game
@@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432 Ah! Ok. Sorry, thought you meant historically
@@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432 Still think they were talking casualties not fatalities at the end though
Michael Hill fair enough
Always love coming back to watch this video.
Amazing, as a living historian myself. I'd love to see more of these.
What a cool episode! Awesome work, guys!
An 2nd Pickett’s charge would happen because the confederate government was pressuring Lee for an victory to settle for peace since the confederate armies were losing in the west and south.
Where was all the union guns? This was fun to watch. I missed the live feed.
The Union had 13 gun models on the table which represent 156-364 guns. So they're out there.
Thank you for doing this! What a different way to see another option on this battlefield. Yes General Sickles that whole damn field is your monument!!! One of my favorite generals.
Thank you for sharing this experience!! It was a very interesting presentation. And it was cool to see the alternative choices results.
The major factor for the Army of the Potomac surviving and the Army of Northern Virginia retreating was the size of the armies.
I love civil war history, as well as alternate history scenarios, so this was an absolute treat for me to watch. Please do more of these.
This looks like so much fun. Lucky guys.
I'm also going to Gettysburg at the end of the month
Ooh, hope you enjoyed. I went a few weeks after you. I found it incredible. Stayed at the Farnsworth. :)
@@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures it was incredible! We stayed at a bnb. It took me and my family about three hours to get through the museum. The cyclorama was also amazing.
*When you don't have a Stonewall*
YOU AINT GOT NO BALLS WITHOUT STONEWALL
We need both Stonewalls. An actual stone wall, as any real total war player knows, and Thomas Jackson.
My advice would have been after the first day for the Confederate forces to withdraw from the Gettysburg area entirely and establish defensive positions east of Cashtown, PA, about 6 miles to the west. The Union forces would have followed and on July 3 would very likely have battered themselves against the Confederate positions, in a replay of Fredericksburg. The severely weakened Union forces would be forced to retreat back to Gettysburg, perhaps as far as Hanover, PA, Littlestown, PA, or Emmitsburg, MD. The Confederate forces would then have the opportunity to advance on Harrisburg, PA, the Pennsylvania state capital. Defeating the Army of the Potomac and taking a northern state capital might well convince many Northerners that the war was no longer worth the cost, despite the Union gains in the western theater with the fall of Vicksburg, MS.
You'd be forced to ignore the fact that Lee didn't know what he was facing. His cavalry were not doing their jobs. There's really no reason to think that Lee would have been any more aware of the Union deployment than he was historically. Also, there wouldn't be any reason for the Union to attack defensive positions east of Cashtown. They weren't hurting for supplies or needing to do anything but stay between Lee and Washington. Lee was under supply pressure, was losing the war in the west and couldn't risk being out maneuvered because he needed to be able to get back to Virginia eventually. Really, the Union held a fairly substantial tactical advantage during that campaign.
I watched it several times and still enjoy a great job guys
More battles please! Revolutionary War, War of 1812, and more Civil War wargames with fan voting on major decisions.
Fought this on line battle, did what Longstreet said held the high ground away from town made the union attacked me, creamed them 🤠
What did u play on
Why on earth would the Union army attack Longstreet on the hills away from town when all the had to do was maneuver around them? You played against a poor general.
This is the Type of Video that my 2nd period Social studies Teacher would show The class
I had the chance of Garry giving me a tour of Gettysburg a couple weeks ago, was pretty neat. I remember we went to Lees headquarters
Please do this again with other battles. This was awesome to watch. A lot of the what the people voted for was very perplexing given the terrain haha
Very much enjoyed this, guys! Keep up the great, interesting, entertaining work... all the way from North Wales, UK.
I would have really enjoyed just being in the room while this happened. Thanks for putting this on.
If you have a love of military history and would like to recreate battles and play the role of a field commander, please check out little wars tv or HMGS. This was a great pairing of two organizations that shed light on preservation efforts and miniature war gaming. Great job to all!
Less player screen time, more map screen time. An overhead of the entire table shot in time-lapse would help immensely. I've done it and you can get a much better picture of the ebb-and-flow of a battle. Its very hard to get the whole scope when the camera can only cover a 3rd of the table at a time.
I like how ewell treated this as the prime opportunity for some Gettysburg (1993) memes.
This was awesome and I really liked how everyone got in character to an extent.
Thank you. That was wonderful.
Do you know what guys I’ve been watching a little wars TV for a while now As well as loving the American battlefield trust videos it does my heart good to find this video although it’s two years after it’s debut love you guys keep up the good work!
Check out our Brandywine collab as well!: ua-cam.com/video/yr24wSzf4aw/v-deo.html
LOTTA fun! Fun group of guys. God bless Dixie.
"Man 40k isn't anything like what my friends told me it was..."
This was so cool, well done!
Very good. There is no war gaming victory for Genl Lee at Gettysburg. The lack of Stuart's cavalry intelligence was pivotal.
Great video guys, love watching these.
well I have found a new respect for mead after finding out about how a general in the civil war had the same last name
Wow! You did it! You changed history! Well done. Three more people died including the inventor of refrigeration. No matter, salt barrels work fine. I think you also got the guy whos grandson started the Macarena. So there's that.
It is nice to make decisions in Hind sight, but all those years ago it was a different matter. Very entertaining and thought provoking. Well done, and I look forward to more games like it.
This is way better than all of the video game simulations that people have put out there.
A great way to fight a battle. Nobody gets killed and wounded
"You the viewers have failed us!"
Aint gonna lie I laughed when the player said that!
Probably the biggest single move Jeff Davis could have made to secure victory for the South would have been to place NB Forrest in overall command in the West at the earliest possible opportunity..
Ultimate General: Civil War has prepared me for this.
A really neat concept and organized quite well. Good work, gentlemen. Looked like an interesting experience.
Such devotion to detail! Well done!
Union Artillery MIA? Narration mentioned CSA Artillery several times, but no mention of the historically more numerous and effective Union guns. Both sides' Cavalry (but for Buford) also 'not mentioned in dispatches', though I suppose you can rationalize that as meaning they are off-map neutralizing each other.
I would guess that this was an edited video where a lot was left out due to length. My guess would be that they just didn't happen to include mentions of the Union Artillery. It would have been included in the game each time there was a fight but only the most dramatic parts of the game - such as the deaths of Generals - made it into the video.
.
@Bob Smith -- Yep, that seems plausible.
Awesome exercise, very interesting to watch and excellent presentation.
Hmmmmm.... Declining to send Picket against the Union center was the decisive factor in this version of the battle, and that decision was made due to hindsight, which the confederates did not have. If you were to truly factor in the personalities of the Generals, you would have to send in Picket. Because Lee's position in this version was stronger than in the real battle. If he sent picket back then, SURELY he would have done so now! And the result would have been the same- a Confederate loss due to Lee's costly error. Eliminating that factor (Lee's "dander was up") gives the CSA a huge and unrealistic advantage, which led to more or less a draw in this version of the battle. Honestly, if you aren't going to send in Picket in a situation that is at least as favorable to it as it was in 1863, you may as well just skip the whole exercise because the outcome was weighted from the start.
Eliminating Lee's dander actually gives the Confederates very little. Lee's plan of campaign was ruined on 1 July- and he needed a strategic victory on the scale of Austerlitz or Jena. Anything less was a strategic defeat, regardless of how the battle turned out tactically.
@@manilajohn0182 - Are you suggesting that the losses from Picket's Charge had no affect on the war?
@@StumpyNubs No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that Pickett's Charge was a long- odds action because it had very little chance of delivering what Lee needed. Moreover, Lee's had no viable alternative, because he was out of time both strategically and logistically- because his original plan of campaign was ruined on 1 July.
@@manilajohn0182 - And yet he still ordered it! That's a fact. Lee's personality made Pickett's charge inevitable, despite the objections from his generals. To suggest that Lee would have declined to order the charge from a stronger position in the simulation than he had historically is not realistic, in my opinion. The gamers declined to play half the battle because 21st century hindsight told them that it would not go well. It was their prerogative, of course. But if Lee's "dander" is taken out of the equation, you give the Confederate side a big advantage in the simulation that I think diminishes the historical accuracy of the game.
@@StumpyNubs Well, I never suggested that Lee would have declined to order the charge. That said, Lee's after action report makes it clear enough that his personality did not make Pickett's charge inevitable.
The strategic objective of the campaign was to achieve a great enough success to force the Union to lift the siege of Vicksburg, but he (and Longstreet) made it clear that Lee intended to achieve this by maneuvering the AotP into attacking the AoNV and then defeating the Union attack. This alone precludes any notion that Pickett's charge was somehow inevitable.
Pickett's charge eventually took place because Lee's plan of campaign was ruined by the meeting engagement on 1 July. The AoNV inflicted a minor tactical defeat on the AotP by assuming the tactical offensive. This precluded any reasonable chance that the AotP would carry out an attack on the AoNV and forced Lee to improvise in a situation where time (Vicksburg) and logistics (foraging) were already working against him. The result was further tactical offensives by Lee, which culminated in Pickett's charge.
Amazing video!
What a delight! As a cousin to Lee, Garnett, Armistead, Longstreet et al I had a great time watching. Just wish I could have been more involved. My vote for the next battle is Chickamauga where some of my grandfathers fought. Hurrah!
Now i need to watch Gettysburg again
Thank you
This was well done. Entertaining but also really illuminating.
Poor General Reynolds, he could only escape death once.
Hey this was great!!! Make this a yearly tradition!!
It’s like little kids playing with legos but they are adults playing with realistic legos
awesome wargame! I voted! It would have been a good decision to send longstreet to attack Sickles at the peach orchard, continue towards the round tops, and possibly flank the Federal army.
please do more of these!
Interesting prospective see the battle in Gettysburg.
it's pretty cool that they did this
Great game, great presentation! What rules did you use?
Altar of Freedom. $15.00 US for the PDF.
I wish their was a game like this
They’re literally playing one
It’s called altar of freedom
One thing I believe that Lee was acutely aware of, was that the Union's escape toward's Washington must NOT be cut off. They must be invited to leave the good ground to the Rebels and flee toward the Rebel objective. I believe this was Lee's main reason for disallowing Longstreet's flanking maneuver.
That's an interesting point. However, what would have happened had a mostly intact Army of the Potomac been allowed to dig in around Washington, combining with the garrison and the strong works and placing Meade smack in the middle of his supply/reinforcement bases? Seems to me Lee would have arrived outside of the city and staring straight at a much tougher nut to crack than he found at Gettysburg.
It's my understanding that Lee understood he must engage and destroy the Army of the Potomac first, or any movement toward Washington would be very dangerous. Lee certainly couldn't leave Meade free to maneuver and cut him off from Virginia.
Gettysburg was of no consequence itself, it just happened to be the place where the armies met. And as such, I think most would agree that had Meade decided to press it there, he would have retired to a place closer to Washington, but not at it. I believe Meade had already chosen a place to make a stand, near Taneytown, Md. somewhere, on a ridge overlooking a creek.
The Confederate's strategic objective was not Washington D.C. It was to achieve enough of a success to remove pressure from the Confederate defenders at Vicksburg. After Vicksburg was placed under siege (before Lee's campaign got under way), lifting the siege became the objective. This was hashed out in Richmond in mid- May after the battle of Chancellorsville between the senior Confederate political leadership and Lee. The central item on the agenda was what to do to 'assist' Vicksburg- what Davis called "the nail that holds the two halves of the Confederacy together"- and not offset its loss.
Lee declined to execute Longstreet's idea because three factors forced Lee to attack after 1 July. The first factor was that Lee's plan of campaign was to entice the AotP to attack the AoNV and defeat it (made clear in his after- action report and in Longstreet's memoirs). This required that the AotP assume the tactical initiative. The minor victory in the meeting engagement of 1 July ruined Lee's plan of campaign by casting the tactical initiative onto the AoNV.
The second factor was that Lee's army was foraging off of enemy territory and couldn't remain in any one area for more than 3-5 days (this factor alone precluded any idea of taking Washington D.C.). The AoNV hadn't foraged since Lee's concentration order of 29 June, and foraging parties could not carry out such duty in proximity to enemy forces. By 3 July, Lee lacked the time to carry out Longstreet's envelopment idea and wait for a Union attack which was highly unlikely anyway.
The last factor was that the clock was ticking at Vicksburg (Lee was approximately 1,100 miles away and had no clear idea how bad a condition that the defenders there were in). By 3 July, Lee had to either attack or abandon the campaign in failure. Since he had been victorious on 1 July and had almost been successful on 2 July, he attempted to execute Napoleon's concept of the "strategic battle"- the very thing which Meade foresaw.
Cheers...
As in life so true is it in gaming.... It's all about how the dice are cast.
I Don't really get it,anyone tell me how this game played?
I Don't get it but i like it.
Christian Sebullen it uses dice to simulate combat and tactics influence the dice rolls ie using different dice. Ex. Hills effect lower altitude cannon offensively
Loved this game, the way it was fough so frantically compact was annoying thou. Wish it was more spread out like it was historically.
“Hay Daryl its Pickett’s charge,”
(Pulls out gun)
That was epic! Loved it!
I would love to play this game
When the Union took the high ground, the battle was lost.
That's what obi-wan kenobi would say.
I determined who I was supporting by two simple words, General and Lee
I should mention that if any of you guys, the ones reenacting it included, wanted to do a digital version of this, there is a really great game called Ultimate General: Civil War, which is a table-top RTS, where you can rewrite the civil war from either side, including this battle of Gettysburg.
Those numbers would be way different if that had "Pickett's Charged" on day 3. Feels like an incomplete day. Basically turned it into Antietam's real outcome.
My only regret, is that I have but one like to give for this video!
Imagine the veterans of Gettysburg up in heaven watching us do the same exact thing they have PTSD from
Can you guys do another one? And do a long cut?