Why Europe Doesn't Want Digital Nomads
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2024
- There is a stark difference between someone who actually wants to live here, and someone who wants to work illegally in style.
This video is not intended as a direct criticism of any particular person, simply my personal viewpoint on the situation. To me, any nation providing digital nomads a visa are doing them a courtesy. They are adapting to a completely new situation while these people complain it "isn't good enough".
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Articles Mentioned/Referenced for this piece:
sifted.eu/arti...
grow.acorns.co...
arichlife.com....
www.lonelyplan...
Attribution for some photos used:
Bundesarchiv, Bild 183-01986-09083 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 3.0 DE creativecommon..., via Wikimedia Commons
Turkish Guest workers
www.dw.com/en/...
I 100% agree with your assessment of digital nomads being disrespectful of the countries they stay in, having a "what are immigration laws?" mentality that leads to overstaying visas and being a drain on local services. But as a remote worker I do find it extremely frustrating that I can't just work while traveling, within the confines of a 90-day tourist visa. I have limited PTO which is often spent on family time, and it just hurts emotionally to never get to leave America and experience other cultures. Most countries consider you to be breaking the law if you work remotely during a vacation stay, and I just don't understand why that has to be an issue if I'm still leaving when my time is up. I just wish countries would use time as a measure of whether you're a "tourist" or not, rather than calling you an illegal worker the second you start writing code at night. Some countries (namely Canada and Iceland) already draw this distinction and I'm really hoping that more countries follow their lead.
I cannot see how these laws are enforceable in practice. In other words, you would most likely get away with writing some code while visiting a country as a tourist. After all, in today's world workers are often expected to be available at most times (which is a bad practice as well, of course). The world is grey.
@@herbybey7698 when you leave you will get caught, unless you smuggle yourself over the border,in which case i say shot and ask questions later.
Just work online with a tourist visa. LoL
1. Each EU has its own laws and procedures regarding migration and residency. Some are more liberal, some not. E.g. Poland is totally open to labor migration from 6 countries of Eastern Europe, while relatively closed to refugees from Middle Eastern or African countries. Other countries have a different approach.
2. Migration law is pretty archaic in most EU countries. They don't recognize that the world has changed in the last 20 years and millions of ppl are not bound to their physical location for work. Apparently, Estonia and Croatia are an exception. However, I would not say that lack of specific immigration procedures for digital nomads means that they are not welcome.
3. Probably the best way to legalize your stay in the EU is by getting a student visa. Don't take Germany as a standard. In most countries, you have a lot of courses in English and no strict admission requirements. Let's say frankly if you don't want to make much effort in studying you can just use a university as a way to legalize your long-term stay. (However, it would be stupid. Why not use the opportunity to learn something useful).
4. I don't think that even a couple of millions of digital nomads would to the lowest degree affect the real estate market or make neighbors unhappy about of lack of assimilation or limited knowledge of the local language. If you live your life without making problems or breaking the laws, you're already a valuable member of society.
5. Yes, in terms of life quality Europe is the best place on the planet. If you have your income in the US and live in the EU (maybe with exception of several expensive places) you make a very good deal. You just live much better for less money and your life is just more interesting. As an American or Canadian coming with money and not depending on local welfare you are more than welcome in most of the EU countries.
Hey, thank you so much for leaving that detailed comment! Regardng some of the point you made, I am largely in agreement with you. There's two points that I'd like to menion:
2. While I agree, European immigration laws are broadly archaic and there's not much centralization, things are moving in a positive direction. What concerns me is when people say 'the government isn't doing enough', when 'enough' seems to mean "let us stay and renew until we obtain permanent residency". There are ways to work remotely from the EU, but typically it requires a specific visa scheme (eg: DAFT). Spain has a pilot DN program, but people are saying "it isn't enough".
4. It isn't so much bothering people, as it is the long term exclusivity and rise in short term rentals. At least in Central Europe we're in a situation where most of our major city centers are largely foreign owned and not on the open market. Tbilisi in Georgia is a prime example of this with Russians escaping the effect of sanctions at home. Adam Something also mentioned it in his city review of Prague.
In Bali, people live 3 months at a time on tourist visas, hop over to Thailand for 48 hours, and then go right back to Bali. They do this for years, as long as they don't get caught. That is the problem I would like to avoid seeing in Europe, and ideally EU and SEA institutions could learn from each other on resolving the issue for both regions.
@@UniquelyUnseen Thanks for your comments! Well, it's becoming a broad topic including the European migration policy and the real estate market:). Generally, most European countries have a huge problem with the aging population and low birthrate. Many countries have a problem with a lack of qualified workforce, which already affects the productivity of their economies. From this point of view, immigration laws directed at the "protection of the labor market" and making sure that the ppl don't stay too long in the country are just absurd. IMO, DNs are the best possible migrants. Young ppl, earning good money, not dependent on welfare or anything else. To me sounds like the most desirable migration you can imagine. If they are already countries thinking seriously about attracting them this is really good.
You're definitely right that a large influx of ppl into relatively small places like Tbilisi might affect the real estate market. Some ppl might think it's a bad thing, I don't agree with this. Raising rent and real estate places stimulate a lot of businesses and make prosperity for many. I always wonder why municipalities in many places offer "social housing" for locals in the attractive city centers. On the other hand, you have some many wonderful small towns in Europe, which are dying out because young people migrate to bigger locations. DN could be a chance to give a second life to these places.
Another thing is the tax question. Well, no idea how to solve this question. Anyway, if you write a couple of work-related e-mails in a cafe in Warsaw or Prague, nobody will try to tax you. In most countries, you become a tax resident after spending more than 180 days in a calendar year. I'm sure you can solve this problem easily.
Good luck to all DNs! You're the future of the world.
Maybe the US and Canada could allow Europeans who work remotely to just live in the US or Canada? We promise to pay rent (or couchsurf) and we will shop for groceries every now and then.
Increased rents is MUCH MORE due to AirBnB than to digital nomads, and that is occurring globally.
I don't think Americans care, as I have seen some news videos putting a positive light on digital nomads. And also are you really concerned about our reputation?
Very nice video!
Thank you very much! I appreciate the support.
To me there was way too much to read for a livestream. And I have to admit I did not get the point. Different countries in Europe or the EU have a different approach on visas/work permits ?
It could've been longer to accommodate the text I agree. When I'm editing somehow 10-15 seconds feels like a good amount of time when it isn't..
The point I was trying to make is that these people expect to go to any nation in the EU and be able to work remotely. That is illegal without a proper work visa. They do it anyway, and hope to not get caught.
@@UniquelyUnseen Thanks for your response. You'll figure it out over time. 😉
But what happens if they get caught ? And how do governments/city councils try to prevent this ?
@@teotik8071 The issue is these people often go to countries like Thailand or Indonesia where the government simply can't enforce the law unless they're tipped off- as happened in Indonesia. European Union nations have been a kind of "holy grail" where the "expats" get access to the services all citizens and legal residents pay for. EU has announced a stricter border regime, which will definitely help find those who overstay a visa. National & local governments will soon have more tools.
@@UniquelyUnseen I agree with you. Some countries struggle with such behaviour and the locals draw the short straw.
And I knew it is kind of the same in cities such as Lisbon and Barcelona. This might to be a good topic to continue with a future video.
Are you on twitter
As a Croatian, it feels weird to know we are one of two countries in europe to have specific visas for DN.
I guess the second our politicians realised they can't profit (read: steal) much off of them theyput that in place.
Good thing, but I still feel they did it for profit (since from what I know overstay is subjected to heavy fines).
READ: STEAL - So true hehehe
@@basilmagnanimous7011 sadly, yeah.
A lot of people are leaving primarily because of corruption in politics. In most cases, money desn't even need to be a problem (most of the jobs have decent enough pay, thought pensions can be frighteningly low), but for every one good thing you hear, there is five stories that go: politician A stole this amount of money, a friend of politican B got a high-positioned job he is unqualified for, person affiliated with party X found stealing armature and so on and so on.
We could be a decent country, like Slovenia is, but that won't happen any time soon.
Worst part is that the normal population is to be blamed too, since year after year the same party is elected (long story short, it was the party our first president was in and so the logic goes (I guess) that because of that daid party is responsible for Croatian independence).
Glorified tourists? So it cann't be poor economic migrants. It must then be referring to rich non-Europeans with Swiss bank accounts and private jets and Rollys-Royce coming to live in Europe like they do in Dubai. Am I correct?
No. They are refering to middle-class random non-europeans, that don’t have much money, but do want to benefit from the European welfare system
@@Figue- Middle class seeking welfare. Oh man.
Can that really be called Middle? In fact, most people are poor nowadays, since a poor family in the past needed only one income, but now a middle class family needs two.
@@موسى_7 that doesn’t contradict my statement. Middle class people in Europe need two incomes to raise a family, but one income to live alone confortably. And yes, they seek welfare
@@Figue- To incomes to raise a family? So family is a luxury for people in non-Muslim countries, not something which you HAVE to have? I learn something new every day.
A luxury. Not even a "everyone has the right if they want, but they may choose not to".
@@موسى_7 yes, family is not at all as necessary in non-muslim countries. Many people choose not to have one. Women who choose to live alone (usually) aren’t shamed for it, too :)
If you are full time youtuber, will the EU just kick you out lol👽
Lol who knows
If you overstay yes, personally i think influenzers should be tarred and feathered, but hey that is just me 🤷
Because it is poorly run. You could have stopped after that.
The description and the comments tell the whole story. I don't need to watch the video.
I hope this critcism is constructive rather than offensive. You made so many better videos in the past.
Thank you for your feedback. If someone wants to go to the EU to study or work, I have no problem with that. In fact I encourage people to do so. My video suggests several ways for people to legally get into the EU (student visas, DAFT). One thing I didn't mention was the option to work for a company based in Europe and ask to get transferred.
Working remotely for an American company while someone is in (for example) Latvia without their employer knowing leaves both parties up to legal issues. Tourism is great, but it isn't tourism when you're on month 6 of a 6 month visa and have worked 30-40h/week the whole time.
@@UniquelyUnseen I meant that reading the comments saved me the time of watching.
I learned from comments that a digital nomad is a person who works online in one country but takes benefits from living in another.
It could have been a post, not a video.
Thanks for the reply.
Trying to outlaw digital nomads; who would not be employing locals anyway; is a battle lost before it starts, the world is changing, I didn't realise it had grown to either be perceived as a problem or to become a problem?; yet clearly it has, (400/4000 or more people in St Mark's Square in Venice instead of 40 as in the 60s when I was mobile?) 18-90-100 years ago people of all sorts including artists and writers would arrive here and there; very often in the off-season, to paint or to write or whatever, and it was never a problem, personally I suspect the numbers will continue to explode rather than diminish. That said of myself; I live in Western Australia, and at nearly 80; may well spend a winter or two in Marrakesh? As a futures trader Marrakesh is only five hours off the NYSE and has the same timeframe as the LSE..... As mentioned the world is changing; one can only invite governments wherever these "digital nomads" turn up; to "cry all the way to the bank"? Very best wishes to all - John - Perth - Australia................
Much of Europe is facing demographic challenges and digital nomad visas will become MORE prevalent in Europe. LOL
For the few months they stay before moving to Indonesia or wherever, sure. But they're not trying to stay tied down, at least that's not my impression. If they do, cool, but that's not the vibe I get
@UniquelyUnseen Seeing 2 year DM visas in South America now. Governments need to realize that nomads want more than 6 months if they have to jump through hoops to get one.
@@SenorJuan2023 interesting, I had no idea about those developments in S. America. Thanks for commenting.