My prediction is that it won't be called Messiah, but just DUNE: Part 3, and it'll be 3 hours long. And I think it'll draw on elements of the second half of the original Dune book that were left out of Part 2, Messiah and a little bit from Children of Dune, too. I think it'll be Chalamet's Paul's send-off (making the trilogy his story arc) and the last Dune film DV makes. I think the big time jump will happen within the movie itself. So Part 3 could start a few months after Part 2 and showing some of the holy war spread across the galaxy and how Paul and Stilgar lead it, Alia's birth, and Chani sewing some early seeds to stop Paul's dark path even though she loves him... Then it could skip in time for act 2 to 15-20 or so years later with Paul as Emperor, , a father, Alia fully-grown and powerful, etc.
If I had to guess, they would blend elements of Messiah with the Holy War itself. Because while Messiah works as a book, as a third film it would be hard to work for the general audience. The first book is naturally climatic, but generally in movies there is needs to elements in the film that “top” the previous. That will be really hard to do imo, and the only way to get around it is to have messiah happen during the war itself up to the end.
I totally disagree about Chani. Her character is way more complex, and their love is tragic. We see the warning of charismatic leaders through her eyes. If she believed in Paul as the Lisan Al’Giab than the audience probably would as well. The change to her character helps get across Herbert’s original idea better, rather than writing another book to fix that misconception, it’s already clarified because of Chani.
Completely agree. Chani sees Paul as he actually is, not as any of the roles he is obliged to play. By making her critical of his choice to take the path he does, we better see the distinction between Paul himself and the role he chooses to play. It’s an improvement to the story.
I expect Messiah to be a scene for scene timeline shuffle of Messiah with added parts of Children of Dune and even the first Dune. The scene in Dune 2 where Paul has a vision of Chani going blind will be him instead and they’ll reunite after that. I also expect the twins to be much older having been hid in the desert by Chani.
Why didn’t Denis address concubinage vs marriage in Part 1? I think he often strategically leaves certain things out to address them later, like holding Feyd, Irulan, and Shaddam until Part 2. The Guild were nowhere in Part 2, but they and the Bene Tleilax MUST be addressed in Part 3. We may yet see Paul and Chani’s first son and Hasimir Fenring in exile in 3.
I loved Dune Part 2 very much, but I do have some concerns about the changes and exclusions. And you're right about the changes with Chani, they are significant in that it sets up a different Dune Messiah. Denis has made Dune his own and he's driving it into a different direction than Herbert's books. But regardless, I anxiously await for Dune Messiah.
I may be wrong but I think that the first time Duncan is resurrected, it is the original restored to life. All the subsequent duncans, that are created for Paul's son are clones of the original.
Well the problem with Messiah is that it's very light on plot, which you really need for a movie adaptation. All there is in terms of plot is the assassination attempt conspiracy, and that's not enough. With the change to Chani in Dune 2, I would expect Messiah to deal with Paul trying to regain Chani's love and the respect of the Northern (secular) Fremen (also invented for Part 2). Which he then does by abdicating at the end of the movie after the assassination attempt.
I think that's why his script will be a true sequel to part 2 moreso than trying to adapt Messiah. I think we will see the holy war spread across the galaxy in Act 1, the first hour of the movie, and Paul trying to win back Chani's loyalty at the same time, and then Act 2 skips in time to Paul having been Emperor for years, and the plot to overthrow him, etc.
Feyd and Lady Margot's daughter will be grown up by then too. Perhaps we could look at a 15-20 year time jump unless Anya plays a teenager Alia. The Fedaykin Death Commando's Otheym and Korba were also never introduced so will we get Bijaz the dwarf? Maybe he and Scytale will be combined into one character. It's all so confusing for the moment depending on when the twins will be born...
This is why i suspect Alia will be a young girl of around 10 maybe younger and not played by ATJ, with ATJ still appearing in pauls dreams. The time jump can be smaller and they dont have to agressively age the cast for it to make sense.
I loved the change in Chani's character. For one, having her and some of the younger Fremen be skeptical of Paul seems more realistic. Two, she gave him a sounding board for his doubts rather than just having a voice over. Three, for Dune Messiah, getting Paul and Chani back together will be a major plot point. And it's needed, because otherwise there isn't a whole lot to adapt from the book besides the plot against Paul.
I think it’s a bad idea to wait 10 years they should recast and keep the momentum. Also I think Tim is still going to look super young even in 10 years. I think you’re right, they should have made it a g.o.t level TV series.
Yeah, not excited about the third movie. The fact that the last shot in Dune 2 is on Chani's determined face, as she rides off on her worm into the distance, is not a good sign. I think seeing him ascending to the throne would be more ominous and powerful, but they instead focus on her? Suspect.
Had to wait to watch this video because I only saw Dune: Part Two today. As a movie, it's great. As an adaptation, it's very faithful to the source material, but changes made to Chani felt most out of place. Maybe not to someone who's experiencing Dune solely through these two films, but to anyone who's read the book, certainly. I'm yet to read The Messiah and the rest of the books, but I can see how this change disrupts the story going forward. Still, curious to see what Denis does.
I also am very curious to see where it goes … The changes will definitely make Messiah a different story … Hopefully DVil lands it well I’ve read through Children of Dune and am slogging through God Emperor … I’d def recommend Messiah and Children of Dune, they are GREAT reads
How is she abrasive? She helps Paul adapt to the desert, and is one of the main reasons he is accepted by the Fremen. For the most of the film Paul tells her his fears about becoming a tyrant and she listens and professes her love for him as long as he stays who he is. By the end of the film he takes on the role of tyrant and acts as a completely different person. She can't accept this change and she leaves. Now, you can disagree with the changes the movie made to the book, but Chani's actions are perfectly rational in the context of the film.
Agreed. I think this is where Chris is going almost inexplicably way off base. The change to Chani has completely got him confounded, but it is really not all too difficult to understand if you have had romantic experiences which should be just about everyone. Maybe younger audience members would see her as being a scorned lover, but more mature folks (whatever their age) would not. A strange side note is I just got done watching an Apple TV mini-series of MLK and Malcolm X that focused on their relationships with their wives. In a way it kind of primed me for seeing how a person having their own individual strengths and talents would handle being in a marriage with an international spiritual and cultural figure and how a relationship like that would work. The short answer is not very easily and very turbulently.
@@MROJPC Neither of those ppl’s (Malcolm and Martin) wives publicly threw a fit … And neither of those ppl overthrew the group who had been massacring them … Both of those men also were assassinated and lost their political battles There are pretty pretty big differences … Chani being conflicted would make more sense to me But I do see now, that DVil wanted ppl to know early that Paul wasn’t actually a Savior … which makes the huge change easier for me to deal with
Hopefully the Spacer’s Guild will make an appearance in Dune 3. The intrigues between the Spacer’s Guild and the Benefit Gesserit also need to be there. Have to agree in hoping to see more of the other Great Houses and their interactions. I wonder how much of the original six books followed by the other 13 books will be referenced in the series. First off, I enjoyed Dune 2, it was pretty and engaging. The following are spoilers… The Fremen were all religious zealots, there was no North and South. The few Fremen in the north of Arrakis were there to lull the occupying humans/powers into a false sense of complacency/security. The reason for fearing the Fremen was due to their religious fervor and their distortions to the Benefit Gesserit Teachings (Propaganda). Chani’s character in Dune 2 was diminished drastically; she was made weaker by turning her into a Mary Sue, in my opinion. The character lost her maturity and wisdom of the price of feudal society nobility. Remember in the books, there isn’t as much written for her character. Stillgar took a smaller hit to add a bit of comedy. I wish that viewers would have seen more of Geidi Prime and not been as literal for the Geidi’s black star. The Spacer’s Guild were completely absent, minus a single line in the very beginning of the movie. Lastly, the ending was very abrupt (totally out of character for Chani) and guessable. The abruptness seems to be a Villeneuve trait/feature as of late.
I was curious from the very beginning how the movies would handle the Chani problem, because Messiah basically just has her there to get pregnant and die, which was criticized even back then. No way would that fly today, especially when you have a big celebrity in that part. Whatever they do for the third movie, we're in for some major changes, but I hope they carry out Paul's story to the very end, like we see in Children of Dune.
I'm baffled that you're not automatically suspicious of anything Hollyweird puts out. You're bait and switch fodder for 'em. Channels like this are here to keep our eyes on Hollyweird. It is done.
It's like all the complaining about the ending of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth when it's plainly obvious that these people haven't finished the game yet! I hate social media!
Part 2 was much weaker than part 1. The pacing in part 2 was off, there was too much moving pictures of talking characters as opposed to the grand opera of the first part.
what if they recast everyone, aside from Alia, and Chalamet plays Leto II? I have no idea how they’re going to do _Messiah…_ I don’t think the book has enough to sustain a whole movie, and it’s already off-track from what they’ve set up already… and the overall _Dune_ story takes several more books to resolve, so I kinda think they’ll just paraphrase the rest of the books, but make it mostly about Paul, and limit the other roles.
They will diverge immensely from the book. D 1 diverted a little, D 2 diverted tremendously, D 3 will be like if the book did not even exist. The best version anyway is by far0" Dune 1984 Alternative Edition Redux [Spice Diver Fan Edit]" 3hours long available on youtube.
@@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2 - I tried to watch the Spice Diver version, and all the inner monologues were just too much for me to bear. I do wish Villeneuve would stick closer to the books, but I still prefer his adaptation over the others.
I think part 3 has to now follow on from part 2, In messiah there is a 15 year time jump but how can they jump 15 years without concluding the chani/paul issue presented at the end. I think alia will be much younger than in messiah and her role split up between irulan, jessica (who was absent in messiah), young alia and chani. The love plot between alia and hayt scrapped least until a possible 4th movie. The rest of the messiah story playing out as presented, just sooner in the timeline.
@@1183newman - they wouldn’t cast Anya Taylor-Joy if they didn’t plan to feature her extensively in the _Messiah_ adaptation… so either the time jump will occur within the middle of the story, or Paul and Chani’s reconciliation will be told in flashback, or maybe Leto and Ghanima won’t really factor in at all 🤷🏻♂️ whatever the case, _Messiah_ will surely differ from the book quite a bit, and I actually hope they incorporate plot elements and themes from the rest of the series, to let Villeneuve’s version of the Dune universe stand complete.
I doubt they will take Chani's story that far off track especially as it would kill any chance of doing Children of Dune. I imagine what will happen is that some kind of reconciliation has happened between Paul and Chani off screen starrting them roughly at the point they are at the start of Book 3. Or as someone else said here, the reconcliation/end of Holy War could be the first act of the movie making the second half all the more tragic if it goes more or less by the book.
I have a feeling that, instead of Alia hearing whispers from the Baron, they'll make it Feyd instead. Still family, but Austin Butler's star is clearly rising and I don't think Stellan Skarsgard wants to wear the fat suit again.
Dune Messiah has no Lady Jessica. I believe Dune Part Three should include her regardless. She should be away from Arrakis as a point of view character experiencing the effects of Paul's rule on the galaxy.
@@Sam_T2000 sarandon didn't play Jessica. She played Wendica one of Shaddam's daughters that wanted Leto II and his sister dead. Which was a change from the novel as well but it worked.
Yes, she does not appear in the second book and makes her first return in Children of Dune, the third book. So that means she's got an entirely unwritten story arc that this movie could explore. It doesn't need to be subvert the plot either, just show what happens outside of Arrakis.
@@mcgilj1 - wait… Alice Krige played Jessica… I remembered she was played by a different actress than in the first series, someone more famous. …still don’t know how they got Susan Sarandon to appear in that, though. what was Jessica doing the whole time in between _Dune_ and _Children_ ?
@@Sam_T2000 I think there's a reference to it.. But she's basically written out of Messiah.. I think there's a book by his son that might cover that. But it's been a couple decades since I read those. I need to read them again and see the 200 other books they've added since. Lol
[WARNING: WALL OF TEXT SPOILERS] Herbert served in the US Navy as a photographer for 6 months during WWII. The Vietnam War began Nov 1st, 1955, 5+ years before Kennedy took office. Herbert had his reasons for disliking Kennedy, but getting the US into the Vietnam War wasn’t one of them. Perhaps not getting us out could have been his reason. The SciFi Children of Dune miniseries didn’t skip over Dune Messiah. They incorporated both books and called it Children of Dune. Chalamet turned 28 in December. We can’t wait too long for part 3 otherwise Anya will be too old. Chani’s changes along with making the younger generation skeptical while the older generation are true believers gives all of the Freman depth instead of making them the one-note they are in the books. Making Chani a Fedykin instead of a Sayyadina gives her depth and agency, and replaces 2yr old Alia being a warrior on the battlefield preparing the bodies of dead Sardaukar and Harkonnen for the death stills. Villeneuve has set up Chani to be Paul’s rock so he stays on The Golden Path and doesn’t lose his humanity. Her strength will make her loss even more tragic. I don’t see Villeneuve straying off the plot to the point it becomes a different story. In D2 Paul says she’ll come to understand…I think the simplest way to begin Messiah would be for Chani to end her worm ride and walk into the seitch to find Paul waiting for her which is proof his prescience has exploded, knew where she’d go, took a thropter to beat her to her location, and he is the Mahdi. He then explains to her what’s up, giving the audience some much needed exposition and we get his magnificent speech to her from the end of the Dune novel how Irulan will never know his touch, etc… and how the future is horrific no matter how hard he tries to stop what’s coming, but (and repeats his line in D2) how he sees a narrow path… that will be slightly less horrific but save humanity. Then we get a time jump and still get the major plot points from Messiah. I just really want The Preacher to finish Paul’s story, but that doesn’t happen until Children.
Kennedy greatly escalated our involvement. We had sent fewer than 1000 military advisers by 1959. When Kennedy was done, we had deployed about 23,000 troops.
The 2000 miniseries total was about 4hrs and 30ish mins, which means Denis had close to an extra hour to tell more of the story than the miniseries and still didn't deliver in a meaningful or engaging way (my opinion). The 2003 miniseries covered Messiah and Children of Dune.
I didnt like Part One at all, outside of a few neat shots. I wanted to give Part Two a chance, just to give the movie a fair shake. It was more entertaining than Part One, and had some pretty cool-looking scenes (especially the arena scene on Geide Prime), but over all, I don't like this adaptation. And they way it ended tells me they no longer care about the source material. Chani was annoying, and I get the feeling there's going to be a "Jon Snow kills Darnarys" scene between Chani and Paul in the third movie. I hope I'm wrong.
I like the ideas and themes of Dune Messiah but I dont see how it will fit well following the bombastic conclusion to Part 2. I would prefer various elements and portions of Messiah are kept but intertwine with the holy war to really drive home the point of horrors of war and allow the audience to have a dialogue post-film. That said, id prefer if the Denis went his own way with it to make it more concise maybe in an Attack On Titan-esque fashion or something unique. But thats just my own 2 cents. Regardless imma watch whatever ends up becoming the final version
I wonder if they are going to reverse some of Chani and Irulan's roles. With the way part 2 ended it seems like a possibility, but that would really change other plot aspects regarding the Bene Gesserit and Paul's children.
I think he will. I think Villeneuve is going to piss off a lot of the people who read the books. I could see Irulan being the one that has Paul's children. But by the end he abandons being emperor to be with his true love, Chani. Or, we could see Chani as the leader of the Fremen who reject Paul, but she loves him too much to try to kill him.
I think the Chani shift is going to make for a very bad Dune 3. It erases Chani and Paul's first child Leto, who is killed when either Sardaukar or Harkonnens kill him when they raid Sietch Tabr. Then what happens to Leto II and Ghanima ??? Are they going to bypass that completely ? I think that they will definitely "girlboss" Chani radically and put her against Paul. It would be a disaster for all true Dune fans. And the ironic part is that women, in the form of the arrogance and deceitfulness of the Bene Gesserit and Missionaria Protectiva, are the cause of the entire sorry episode, and it looks like Denis may double down on that for Dune 3. Another thing that I noticed is that all of the filming on Giedi Prime, done in black and white, had a very Leni Riefenstahl touch to it, very "Triumph of the Will" or "The Victory of Faith". It was a bit disturbing and I can't believe that I am the only one who picked up on that. But you cannot deny the magnificence of the film and the excellent portrayals of the characters. Timothee Chalamet turned in an Oscar-worthy performance, as did Stellen Skarsgard as the most evil Baron Harkonnen to date. Javier Bardem IS Stilgar, a character that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. Dave Bautista IS Beast Rabban and Austin Butler has been the closest to the book's Feyd of all the films. His sheer savagery and evilness was just horrifying. Rebecca Ferguson did a credible job as Lady Jessica, but more as a fanatical version. To me Zendaya was the perfect casting for Chani and was quite good up until her character shift. I think that Denis is going come to regret that. But we don't how much pressure he was under to "girlboss" it up, lol.
Denis has enough respect for Frank Herbert than to permanently go off in another direction. He diverted Chani for a reason but he will bring her and Paul back together.
*Spoilers* Paul goes blind and crazy. A tleilaxu small person tries to assasinate the twins in the cradle. A crazy lady breeds supercats to kill the twins. One of the twins become a superhero Flash/Spiderman/Rhino style but sideffects makes him into Jabba the Hut. Alia throws herself out of a high tower, Saruman style. Idaho keeps popping up, because he is cloned (tulpa, ghola call it what you will.
I suspect that alia will be a young girl and not played by ATJ (but still appearing in his dreams). With Alias parts in messiah mostly shared between young Alia, Paul, Chani and Irulan. ATJ probably playing Alia in a 4th film if it ever happens (with or without Denis).
Why would Denis cast her if he wouldn't get to direct her? Either way, it doesn't matter. None of the film's stand on their own. They're just set up for the next film or TV series in the IP. Just by her inclusion as a cameo, it's obvious Denis cares very little to have these films be actual films, as opposed to extended episodes, which is hilarious considering his recent comments about film Vs tv
@@1183newmanglad you enjoyed it. being in the minority usually means you're ahead of your time, when it comes to groupthink, which i think this film's reception has in spades. in 5 years, when we're back to a somewhat regular quality product, i won't be in the minority.
Denis Dune Part 3 will have little to do with Frank Herbert's Dune Messiah. Chani will be an updated amazing girl boss for modern audiences. No Mentants. No ghola/clone Duncan Idaho, no Spacing Guild, no Face Dancers, no Twins, so no Children of Dune. Paul will lose his eyes but before going into the Desert he will kill Jessica.
If you remember, Paul says to Jessica that he had foreseen Chani getting over his decision later, that she would still love him. I think they will keep it relatively the same. But I also don't think they will wait very long, because they can expand on the 12 years and what happened and keep Paul younger then age him up in the same movie.
I don’t understand how people are freaking out so much that Chani leaves at the end given the movie tells you she will come back. It’s nothing but a cliffhanger.
First channel I’ve ever seen that pronounces Alia’s name right. She is not the female R&B singer who died tragically in the 2000s. Ah-Lee-ah. It’s not uh-Lee-ah. Nice!
I think Hayt will come into it but Alia will be a young girl ( not played by ATJ) and the relationship between them obviously abandoned until a potential 4th movie.
Per TruthStream Media's latest video (I just saw a few minutes ago) in less than 240 years of US History there's hasn't been TWO WEEKS of Peace We haven't been fighting someone somewhere.
Dune Messiah may be Denis final Dune movie, but you can guarantee it won't be the last Dune movie. The franchise makes WB too much money not to finish it.
Nihil Novi Sub Sole I recently started reading the sci-fi classics such as Dune 1,2,3 and the Foundation series. Which Star Wars books should I start with? Any other recommended books, sci-fi or otherwise?
For Star Wars books, Darth Bane: path of destruction is excellent, expertly detailing the formation of the rule of two. Death Troopers is an excellent horror novel with each chapter oozing atmosphere and dread.
I don't need the Water of Life to predict what will be the overarching theme of "Dune part 3": a conflict between toxic male dictator and stunning and brave female liberator.
Paul's Story is David and Goliath young david slays goliath old david marries many concubines and sleeps with one of his captains wives then plots that captains murder
If they make Dune 3 10 years from now, Chalamet would be a good age for an older Paul but Anya Taylor-Joy would be too old to be a young lady, wouldn't she? Seems like a strange thing to do.
I would like to see a new film treatment of Starship Troopers akin to this treatment of Dune that is not campy and subversive to the work of RAH this is not to say that the original Starship troopers movie wasn't good in it's own righ it just sought to tell it's own story and message and not wholly the message of the book.
With the way Part 2 ended theres no feasible way they can adapt Messiah properly. With the omission of Alia post birth, Chani leaving Paul behind and from what I interpreted is seems like lady Jessica forced Paul's Kwizatz Hadirat powers out of him and has him in some trance abusing his powers. A Part 3 would need to exist to course correct to make Messiah accurate. Part 3 could consist of Jessica going the bidding of the sisterhood to manipulate Paul into having his Fremen loyalists at opposition to the Fremen Messiah deniers as Chani leads a revolt into a Fremen civil war where at the end she or even Alia pull Paul out of his trance. Paul and Chani get married and untie Arrakis under 1 banner then it leads into Messiah. Sadly a Part 3 would seem neccessary to course correct and would only exist to milk the franchise and be Dune only in name.
100% best version of Dune is "Dune 1984 Alternative Edition Redux [Spice Diver Fan Edit]" 3 hours long and complete. Available on UA-cam. BY FAR the best Dune adaptation.
In Dune (1984) Paul is a God. He has supernatural control over the weather, he is basically Neo from the Matrix, and able to make it rain on Arrakis by the power of his will. The depiction is that of the “white savior” that Frank Herbert deplored. I very much like David Lynch, and there is much to applaud, but… yeah, no. By far the best Dune? Really?
@@MROJPC You are 100% right about that specific point, I agree with you. (God part, and Herbert displeasure) Here are the things I prefer from 1984 compared to D 2 - costumes are amazing and display power and richesses and craft and money and nobility, Dune 1 was bare minimum with costume, but D2 was even worse. Why emperor envoys are better dressed then ALL Emperor, Empresses, Barons and Princesses??? That was fucked up. - nearly all the lore is explained (even more so in the 3 hours version) and books inner monologues are present and respected sometimes line for line. - Irulan and Shani are FANTASTIC women's in 84, I would marry both without hesitations and feel it's the luck of my life. In Denis Dune, only Jessica is interesting but barely. And I would slit my veins or jump from a skyscraper before touching the other two. Looks like Hollywood really HATES women's and feminity. Why do you take beautiful actresses in real life, and transform them into boys (look at Iru and Shani, felt like little boys all along, and visually dressed and behave like boys) - the Guild is visually displayed, their importance and their role is explained very well + there relations to the other houses. - The Emperor, and all barons have decors congruent with being the most powerful people in the universe, art, colors, gold, jewels, crated wood and crafted stones, sculptures, fantistic costumes, drapes and banners. - Denis actors looks like they found their dresses in Warlmart rebate bins during boxing day. That part was particularly sad.
I have to admit, I was underwhelmed by Dune, two maybe it was overhyped, but some of the dialogue scenes were too long and boring. The Emperor’s troops never put up a fight. The final battle at the end was only a few minutes. The visuals were fantastic. The special effects were great except for the Honan arena with all the animated, phony baloney people in the stadium I’d give it a 6.5 out of 10.
One quick comment. My son and I are planning to go see Dune on IMAX. My son bought the tickets to go see it. I asked him how much I owed him for the tickets, he said $40. Really?? $40 for two people to see a movie?? Dear Hollywood, I AM DONE WITH YOU! This will be the last movie I see in a theater! I am done with your nonsensical politics. I am done with your outrageously confusing and continuously change fees for streaming, I’m done!
I'm so sick of Dune and all the videos. It seems that half the videos for this channel are about Dune. The majority of people don't care. Please make other content.
I heard that the real hero of Dune II is Zendaya's character. The L the O the L. Methinks the "fandom menace" are gaslighting their fans again. Turn your backs on Hollyweird forever, for the wokeness is here to stay (e.g. it is being enshrined in Law across the West). I should have guessed given all the simping for Zendaya in the first film -- how many times did Paul have slow-mo dreams about her? She's alright but she's not great either. Get me outta here.
They are pushing Zendaya on us for goodness sake. Give your own head a wobble, stop strawmanning and wake up. My replies keep getting deleted and this is my last attempt to say fu.@@rob4926
Ok.. This is sounding like they gutted the book.. How is this getting such great reviews if what i just read is accurate?! No way . They fu&$ed this movie sounds like to me.
@@darthcalanil5333 did they make anything up? Or did they just make cuts? Also The Godfather I think made some very wise CUTS but they didn't change the story. The one thing they did change in LOTR was probably the scouring.. although by and large it still kept most of the story intact. Wormtongue still kills Sauraman. Events were mixed around. But I can't think on the original LOTR trilogy anything that completely blatant in majorly altering the narrative.
As a movie, Dune parts 1 and 2 are a cinematic treat, as an adaptation it has some problems. The best Dune in terms of faithful adaptation, is the sci fi miniseries.
Alia girlbosses it up in Messiah, there's no way around it. She embodies all the feminist tropes we see today. Can't accuse woke Hollywood of subverting the source material if that's the source material.
Then thank God I only plan on reading the first book. Some incredible Left wing Sci fi author wants to lecture me on the dangers of too much faith in a leader? Sounds like he got it right the first time and got sour when the readers didn't interpret his story the way he wanted, the same way Alan moore threw a tantrum when EVERYBODY loved Rorschach in a world full of communists. I respect the man's skill and world building. I don't intend on reading book 2.
Or Paul verhoven got angry people interpreted starship troopers in a conservative way, or the Attack On Titan mangaka who got angry when people liked having a strong nationalistic military vs giant zombies.
Sooooo.. They didn't adapt Dune as much as they made up a bunch of new sh*t.. ohhhh boy. Thanks. I think I'll skip this one. I loved his take on the Bladerunner universe. But this sounds like a trainereck that gutted the book. And yes . Dune Messiah is supposed to open with the aftermath of what Paul did.. even the book did that.
Just go watch the movie! It was a very faithful adaptation that kept with it's core themes and Chris still loved it despite the Chani change. I still was disappointed there were characters not shown but it's still the best adaptation to date. All those saying that Denis butchered Dune is pure gobblygook! This "made up new sh*t" you refer to did not overshadow the core plot of the story so relax! At the end of the day, one person's interpretation isn't going to be exactly what another person's is going to be as many people are going to be disappointed somewhat. It is what it is I'm afraid.
The people who seem to be making up a bunch of sh* t are UA-camrs & commenters who either didn’t understand what they saw, or didn’t even see it to begin with.
@@Pneumanon I really hate that argument. People are too dumb to understand. Either they made a faithful adaptation that was true to the characters and the novel, or they didn't.
Whatever Denis makes ill be seated.
Paul said he foresees that Chani will return, so hoping her leaving is temporary and to build tension.
Obviously she will return.
My prediction is that it won't be called Messiah, but just DUNE: Part 3, and it'll be 3 hours long. And I think it'll draw on elements of the second half of the original Dune book that were left out of Part 2, Messiah and a little bit from Children of Dune, too. I think it'll be Chalamet's Paul's send-off (making the trilogy his story arc) and the last Dune film DV makes. I think the big time jump will happen within the movie itself. So Part 3 could start a few months after Part 2 and showing some of the holy war spread across the galaxy and how Paul and Stilgar lead it, Alia's birth, and Chani sewing some early seeds to stop Paul's dark path even though she loves him... Then it could skip in time for act 2 to 15-20 or so years later with Paul as Emperor, , a father, Alia fully-grown and powerful, etc.
If I had to guess, they would blend elements of Messiah with the Holy War itself. Because while Messiah works as a book, as a third film it would be hard to work for the general audience. The first book is naturally climatic, but generally in movies there is needs to elements in the film that “top” the previous. That will be really hard to do imo, and the only way to get around it is to have messiah happen during the war itself up to the end.
I totally disagree about Chani. Her character is way more complex, and their love is tragic. We see the warning of charismatic leaders through her eyes. If she believed in Paul as the Lisan Al’Giab than the audience probably would as well. The change to her character helps get across Herbert’s original idea better, rather than writing another book to fix that misconception, it’s already clarified because of Chani.
Seriously … Because I see love differently
I don’t understand the NEED ppl have for a tragic love
Do you think that adds to the story ?
Completely agree. Chani sees Paul as he actually is, not as any of the roles he is obliged to play. By making her critical of his choice to take the path he does, we better see the distinction between Paul himself and the role he chooses to play. It’s an improvement to the story.
@@Pneumanonabsolutely agree. Denis made this change to her character for that reason.
I expect Messiah to be a scene for scene timeline shuffle of Messiah with added parts of Children of Dune and even the first Dune. The scene in Dune 2 where Paul has a vision of Chani going blind will be him instead and they’ll reunite after that. I also expect the twins to be much older having been hid in the desert by Chani.
Why didn’t Denis address concubinage vs marriage in Part 1? I think he often strategically leaves certain things out to address them later, like holding Feyd, Irulan, and Shaddam until Part 2. The Guild were nowhere in Part 2, but they and the Bene Tleilax MUST be addressed in Part 3. We may yet see Paul and Chani’s first son and Hasimir Fenring in exile in 3.
I loved Dune Part 2 very much, but I do have some concerns about the changes and exclusions. And you're right about the changes with Chani, they are significant in that it sets up a different Dune Messiah. Denis has made Dune his own and he's driving it into a different direction than Herbert's books. But regardless, I anxiously await for Dune Messiah.
To me, Paul is basically Michael Corleone. Messiah is Godfather II, Children of Dune is III.
I may be wrong but I think that the first time Duncan is resurrected, it is the original restored to life. All the subsequent duncans, that are created for Paul's son are clones of the original.
Well the problem with Messiah is that it's very light on plot, which you really need for a movie adaptation. All there is in terms of plot is the assassination attempt conspiracy, and that's not enough.
With the change to Chani in Dune 2, I would expect Messiah to deal with Paul trying to regain Chani's love and the respect of the Northern (secular) Fremen (also invented for Part 2). Which he then does by abdicating at the end of the movie after the assassination attempt.
There is less plot in Messiah in book terms but in film terms it's more easily adapted. The first book has too much plot for film.
@@ULYSSES-31Messiah also has more room to inject your own plot twists and story beats and to flesh out certain scenes.
Agreed
@@1183newman for example part 3 could show the jihad
I think that's why his script will be a true sequel to part 2 moreso than trying to adapt Messiah. I think we will see the holy war spread across the galaxy in Act 1, the first hour of the movie, and Paul trying to win back Chani's loyalty at the same time, and then Act 2 skips in time to Paul having been Emperor for years, and the plot to overthrow him, etc.
Feyd and Lady Margot's daughter will be grown up by then too. Perhaps we could look at a 15-20 year time jump unless Anya plays a teenager Alia. The Fedaykin Death Commando's Otheym and Korba were also never introduced so will we get Bijaz the dwarf? Maybe he and Scytale will be combined into one character.
It's all so confusing for the moment depending on when the twins will be born...
This is why i suspect Alia will be a young girl of around 10 maybe younger and not played by ATJ, with ATJ still appearing in pauls dreams. The time jump can be smaller and they dont have to agressively age the cast for it to make sense.
Haha love the intro! Very creative
I loved the change in Chani's character. For one, having her and some of the younger Fremen be skeptical of Paul seems more realistic. Two, she gave him a sounding board for his doubts rather than just having a voice over. Three, for Dune Messiah, getting Paul and Chani back together will be a major plot point. And it's needed, because otherwise there isn't a whole lot to adapt from the book besides the plot against Paul.
I think it’s a bad idea to wait 10 years they should recast and keep the momentum. Also I think Tim is still going to look super young even in 10 years. I think you’re right, they should have made it a g.o.t level TV series.
Yeah, not excited about the third movie. The fact that the last shot in Dune 2 is on Chani's determined face, as she rides off on her worm into the distance, is not a good sign. I think seeing him ascending to the throne would be more ominous and powerful, but they instead focus on her? Suspect.
Had to wait to watch this video because I only saw Dune: Part Two today. As a movie, it's great. As an adaptation, it's very faithful to the source material, but changes made to Chani felt most out of place. Maybe not to someone who's experiencing Dune solely through these two films, but to anyone who's read the book, certainly. I'm yet to read The Messiah and the rest of the books, but I can see how this change disrupts the story going forward. Still, curious to see what Denis does.
I also am very curious to see where it goes … The changes will definitely make Messiah a different story … Hopefully DVil lands it well
I’ve read through Children of Dune and am slogging through God Emperor … I’d def recommend Messiah and Children of Dune, they are GREAT reads
@@thecarter8700 I've got the subsequent books. Just need to get around to reading them 😆
Chani in book was beautiful, fierce and her bond with paul is unbreakable. Film chani is just argumentative, abrasive and prideful.
How is she abrasive? She helps Paul adapt to the desert, and is one of the main reasons he is accepted by the Fremen. For the most of the film Paul tells her his fears about becoming a tyrant and she listens and professes her love for him as long as he stays who he is. By the end of the film he takes on the role of tyrant and acts as a completely different person. She can't accept this change and she leaves. Now, you can disagree with the changes the movie made to the book, but Chani's actions are perfectly rational in the context of the film.
People saw her as a scorned lover? I didn't get that impression at all. I saw it as her disagreeing with his choices.
Agreed. I think this is where Chris is going almost inexplicably way off base. The change to Chani has completely got him confounded, but it is really not all too difficult to understand if you have had romantic experiences which should be just about everyone. Maybe younger audience members would see her as being a scorned lover, but more mature folks (whatever their age) would not.
A strange side note is I just got done watching an Apple TV mini-series of MLK and Malcolm X that focused on their relationships with their wives. In a way it kind of primed me for seeing how a person having their own individual strengths and talents would handle being in a marriage with an international spiritual and cultural figure and how a relationship like that would work. The short answer is not very easily and very turbulently.
@@MROJPC Neither of those ppl’s (Malcolm and Martin) wives publicly threw a fit … And neither of those ppl overthrew the group who had been massacring them … Both of those men also were assassinated and lost their political battles
There are pretty pretty big differences … Chani being conflicted would make more sense to me
But I do see now, that DVil wanted ppl to know early that Paul wasn’t actually a Savior … which makes the huge change easier for me to deal with
Hopefully the Spacer’s Guild will make an appearance in Dune 3. The intrigues between the Spacer’s Guild and the Benefit Gesserit also need to be there. Have to agree in hoping to see more of the other Great Houses and their interactions. I wonder how much of the original six books followed by the other 13 books will be referenced in the series.
First off, I enjoyed Dune 2, it was pretty and engaging. The following are spoilers…
The Fremen were all religious zealots, there was no North and South. The few Fremen in the north of Arrakis were there to lull the occupying humans/powers into a false sense of complacency/security. The reason for fearing the Fremen was due to their religious fervor and their distortions to the Benefit Gesserit Teachings (Propaganda).
Chani’s character in Dune 2 was diminished drastically; she was made weaker by turning her into a Mary Sue, in my opinion. The character lost her maturity and wisdom of the price of feudal society nobility. Remember in the books, there isn’t as much written for her character.
Stillgar took a smaller hit to add a bit of comedy.
I wish that viewers would have seen more of Geidi Prime and not been as literal for the Geidi’s black star.
The Spacer’s Guild were completely absent, minus a single line in the very beginning of the movie.
Lastly, the ending was very abrupt (totally out of character for Chani) and guessable. The abruptness seems to be a Villeneuve trait/feature as of late.
The 8 hours of Sci-Fi channel mini series is for Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
I was curious from the very beginning how the movies would handle the Chani problem, because Messiah basically just has her there to get pregnant and die, which was criticized even back then. No way would that fly today, especially when you have a big celebrity in that part. Whatever they do for the third movie, we're in for some major changes, but I hope they carry out Paul's story to the very end, like we see in Children of Dune.
In Frank Herbert's Dune Chani had red hair. She was the daughter of Liet Kienes.
I'm baffled by the pessimistic comments, some of which are people who admit to not even seeing the movie.
I'm baffled that you're not automatically suspicious of anything Hollyweird puts out. You're bait and switch fodder for 'em. Channels like this are here to keep our eyes on Hollyweird. It is done.
It's like all the complaining about the ending of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth when it's plainly obvious that these people haven't finished the game yet! I hate social media!
Because we know it is woke garbage.
Not some, most.
Part 2 was much weaker than part 1. The pacing in part 2 was off, there was too much moving pictures of talking characters as opposed to the grand opera of the first part.
I'm with CG - I didn't agree with the changes, but I did like the movie. Should be interesting to see what they do.
what if they recast everyone, aside from Alia, and Chalamet plays Leto II?
I have no idea how they’re going to do _Messiah…_ I don’t think the book has enough to sustain a whole movie, and it’s already off-track from what they’ve set up already… and the overall _Dune_ story takes several more books to resolve, so I kinda think they’ll just paraphrase the rest of the books, but make it mostly about Paul, and limit the other roles.
They will diverge immensely from the book. D 1 diverted a little, D 2 diverted tremendously, D 3 will be like if the book did not even exist. The best version anyway is by far0" Dune 1984 Alternative Edition Redux [Spice Diver Fan Edit]" 3hours long available on youtube.
@@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2 - I tried to watch the Spice Diver version, and all the inner monologues were just too much for me to bear. I do wish Villeneuve would stick closer to the books, but I still prefer his adaptation over the others.
@@Sam_T2000 Lucky you 😂 I would love to be able to feel the same. Oh well, enjoy for me then LOL 😇
I think part 3 has to now follow on from part 2, In messiah there is a 15 year time jump but how can they jump 15 years without concluding the chani/paul issue presented at the end. I think alia will be much younger than in messiah and her role split up between irulan, jessica (who was absent in messiah), young alia and chani. The love plot between alia and hayt scrapped least until a possible 4th movie. The rest of the messiah story playing out as presented, just sooner in the timeline.
@@1183newman - they wouldn’t cast Anya Taylor-Joy if they didn’t plan to feature her extensively in the _Messiah_ adaptation… so either the time jump will occur within the middle of the story, or Paul and Chani’s reconciliation will be told in flashback, or maybe Leto and Ghanima won’t really factor in at all 🤷🏻♂️
whatever the case, _Messiah_ will surely differ from the book quite a bit, and I actually hope they incorporate plot elements and themes from the rest of the series, to let Villeneuve’s version of the Dune universe stand complete.
I doubt they will take Chani's story that far off track especially as it would kill any chance of doing Children of Dune. I imagine what will happen is that some kind of reconciliation has happened between Paul and Chani off screen starrting them roughly at the point they are at the start of Book 3. Or as someone else said here, the reconcliation/end of Holy War could be the first act of the movie making the second half all the more tragic if it goes more or less by the book.
I have a feeling that, instead of Alia hearing whispers from the Baron, they'll make it Feyd instead. Still family, but Austin Butler's star is clearly rising and I don't think Stellan Skarsgard wants to wear the fat suit again.
Dune Messiah has no Lady Jessica. I believe Dune Part Three should include her regardless. She should be away from Arrakis as a point of view character experiencing the effects of Paul's rule on the galaxy.
is she really not in the book?
she was in the _Children of Dune_ miniseries… played by Susan Sarandon, no less.
@@Sam_T2000 sarandon didn't play Jessica. She played Wendica one of Shaddam's daughters that wanted Leto II and his sister dead. Which was a change from the novel as well but it worked.
Yes, she does not appear in the second book and makes her first return in Children of Dune, the third book. So that means she's got an entirely unwritten story arc that this movie could explore. It doesn't need to be subvert the plot either, just show what happens outside of Arrakis.
@@mcgilj1 - wait… Alice Krige played Jessica… I remembered she was played by a different actress than in the first series, someone more famous.
…still don’t know how they got Susan Sarandon to appear in that, though.
what was Jessica doing the whole time in between _Dune_ and _Children_ ?
@@Sam_T2000 I think there's a reference to it.. But she's basically written out of Messiah.. I think there's a book by his son that might cover that. But it's been a couple decades since I read those. I need to read them again and see the 200 other books they've added since. Lol
[WARNING: WALL OF TEXT SPOILERS] Herbert served in the US Navy as a photographer for 6 months during WWII. The Vietnam War began Nov 1st, 1955, 5+ years before Kennedy took office. Herbert had his reasons for disliking Kennedy, but getting the US into the Vietnam War wasn’t one of them. Perhaps not getting us out could have been his reason. The SciFi Children of Dune miniseries didn’t skip over Dune Messiah. They incorporated both books and called it Children of Dune. Chalamet turned 28 in December. We can’t wait too long for part 3 otherwise Anya will be too old. Chani’s changes along with making the younger generation skeptical while the older generation are true believers gives all of the Freman depth instead of making them the one-note they are in the books. Making Chani a Fedykin instead of a Sayyadina gives her depth and agency, and replaces 2yr old Alia being a warrior on the battlefield preparing the bodies of dead Sardaukar and Harkonnen for the death stills. Villeneuve has set up Chani to be Paul’s rock so he stays on The Golden Path and doesn’t lose his humanity. Her strength will make her loss even more tragic. I don’t see Villeneuve straying off the plot to the point it becomes a different story. In D2 Paul says she’ll come to understand…I think the simplest way to begin Messiah would be for Chani to end her worm ride and walk into the seitch to find Paul waiting for her which is proof his prescience has exploded, knew where she’d go, took a thropter to beat her to her location, and he is the Mahdi. He then explains to her what’s up, giving the audience some much needed exposition and we get his magnificent speech to her from the end of the Dune novel how Irulan will never know his touch, etc… and how the future is horrific no matter how hard he tries to stop what’s coming, but (and repeats his line in D2) how he sees a narrow path… that will be slightly less horrific but save humanity. Then we get a time jump and still get the major plot points from Messiah. I just really want The Preacher to finish Paul’s story, but that doesn’t happen until Children.
Kennedy greatly escalated our involvement. We had sent fewer than 1000 military advisers by 1959. When Kennedy was done, we had deployed about 23,000 troops.
@@accolade8060yes. Exactly. I’m so old I had a POW bracelet.
The 2000 miniseries total was about 4hrs and 30ish mins, which means Denis had close to an extra hour to tell more of the story than the miniseries and still didn't deliver in a meaningful or engaging way (my opinion). The 2003 miniseries covered Messiah and Children of Dune.
Chris, you are incorrect on the Children of Dune mini series. It's 3 parts and part 1 is Dune Messiah.
Was Chris referring to Liz Chaney?
I didnt like Part One at all, outside of a few neat shots. I wanted to give Part Two a chance, just to give the movie a fair shake.
It was more entertaining than Part One, and had some pretty cool-looking scenes (especially the arena scene on Geide Prime), but over all, I don't like this adaptation.
And they way it ended tells me they no longer care about the source material.
Chani was annoying, and I get the feeling there's going to be a "Jon Snow kills Darnarys" scene between Chani and Paul in the third movie. I hope I'm wrong.
I like the ideas and themes of Dune Messiah but I dont see how it will fit well following the bombastic conclusion to Part 2. I would prefer various elements and portions of Messiah are kept but intertwine with the holy war to really drive home the point of horrors of war and allow the audience to have a dialogue post-film. That said, id prefer if the Denis went his own way with it to make it more concise maybe in an Attack On Titan-esque fashion or something unique. But thats just my own 2 cents. Regardless imma watch whatever ends up becoming the final version
I wonder if they are going to reverse some of Chani and Irulan's roles. With the way part 2 ended it seems like a possibility, but that would really change other plot aspects regarding the Bene Gesserit and Paul's children.
I think he will. I think Villeneuve is going to piss off a lot of the people who read the books. I could see Irulan being the one that has Paul's children. But by the end he abandons being emperor to be with his true love, Chani. Or, we could see Chani as the leader of the Fremen who reject Paul, but she loves him too much to try to kill him.
Chani is going to be the one trying to take Paul down? Chris, you’re great, but that’s a very unlikely prediction.
I think the Chani shift is going to make for a very bad Dune 3. It erases Chani and Paul's first child Leto, who is killed when either Sardaukar or Harkonnens kill him when they raid Sietch Tabr. Then what happens to Leto II and Ghanima ??? Are they going to bypass that completely ? I think that they will definitely "girlboss" Chani radically and put her against Paul. It would be a disaster for all true Dune fans. And the ironic part is that women, in the form of the arrogance and deceitfulness of the Bene Gesserit and Missionaria Protectiva, are the cause of the entire sorry episode, and it looks like Denis may double down on that for Dune 3.
Another thing that I noticed is that all of the filming on Giedi Prime, done in black and white, had a very Leni Riefenstahl touch to it, very "Triumph of the Will" or "The Victory of Faith". It was a bit disturbing and I can't believe that I am the only one who picked up on that.
But you cannot deny the magnificence of the film and the excellent portrayals of the characters. Timothee Chalamet turned in an Oscar-worthy performance, as did Stellen Skarsgard as the most evil Baron Harkonnen to date. Javier Bardem IS Stilgar, a character that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. Dave Bautista IS Beast Rabban and Austin Butler has been the closest to the book's Feyd of all the films. His sheer savagery and evilness was just horrifying. Rebecca Ferguson did a credible job as Lady Jessica, but more as a fanatical version. To me Zendaya was the perfect casting for Chani and was quite good up until her character shift. I think that Denis is going come to regret that. But we don't how much pressure he was under to "girlboss" it up, lol.
Denis has enough respect for Frank Herbert than to permanently go off in another direction. He diverted Chani for a reason but he will bring her and Paul back together.
*Spoilers* Paul goes blind and crazy. A tleilaxu small person tries to assasinate the twins in the cradle. A crazy lady breeds supercats to kill the twins. One of the twins become a superhero Flash/Spiderman/Rhino style but sideffects makes him into Jabba the Hut. Alia throws herself out of a high tower, Saruman style. Idaho keeps popping up, because he is cloned (tulpa, ghola call it what you will.
LMAOOO why did you do this 🤣
Read the Frank Herbert Dune books, so nothing is spoiled for me.
It actually feels, biblically speaking, more like David.
After watching the second movie w my friend he asked if the worms don’t have eyes how do they know where the food is😭😂😂
I suspect that alia will be a young girl and not played by ATJ (but still appearing in his dreams). With Alias parts in messiah mostly shared between young Alia, Paul, Chani and Irulan. ATJ probably playing Alia in a 4th film if it ever happens (with or without Denis).
Why would Denis cast her if he wouldn't get to direct her? Either way, it doesn't matter. None of the film's stand on their own. They're just set up for the next film or TV series in the IP. Just by her inclusion as a cameo, it's obvious Denis cares very little to have these films be actual films, as opposed to extended episodes, which is hilarious considering his recent comments about film Vs tv
@@humbleopulencePart 2 was probably one of the best experiences i have ever had at the cinema.
@@1183newman happy for you. Doesn't mean it was good, though.
@@humbleopulenceDoes mean it was good to me and i have to say you are probably in the minority on this one.
@@1183newmanglad you enjoyed it. being in the minority usually means you're ahead of your time, when it comes to groupthink, which i think this film's reception has in spades. in 5 years, when we're back to a somewhat regular quality product, i won't be in the minority.
Denis Dune Part 3 will have little to do with Frank Herbert's Dune Messiah. Chani will be an updated amazing girl boss for modern audiences. No Mentants. No ghola/clone Duncan Idaho, no Spacing Guild, no Face Dancers, no Twins, so no Children of Dune. Paul will lose his eyes but before going into the Desert he will kill Jessica.
If you remember, Paul says to Jessica that he had foreseen Chani getting over his decision later, that she would still love him. I think they will keep it relatively the same. But I also don't think they will wait very long, because they can expand on the 12 years and what happened and keep Paul younger then age him up in the same movie.
I don’t understand how people are freaking out so much that Chani leaves at the end given the movie tells you she will come back. It’s nothing but a cliffhanger.
First channel I’ve ever seen that pronounces Alia’s name right. She is not the female R&B singer who died tragically in the 2000s. Ah-Lee-ah. It’s not uh-Lee-ah. Nice!
I do hope in the third movie they can change the eyesight thing or at least leave it towards the end of the movie.
Hayt has got to come into it.
I think Hayt will come into it but Alia will be a young girl ( not played by ATJ) and the relationship between them obviously abandoned until a potential 4th movie.
Per TruthStream Media's latest video (I just saw a few minutes ago) in less than 240 years of US History there's hasn't been TWO WEEKS of Peace We haven't been fighting someone somewhere.
How do you put your faces into the trailers/videos like you always do?
They do it with computers.
Whatever they do, I hope they do it with less Zendaya
Highly unlikely. She's the "new look".
@@CreationBrosZone-km5be The "New Look" is below average
Exactly. But you must comply! ;)@@Pyrate_Of_Las_Vegas
True but that is not stopping them pushing her on us. We must comply ;)@@Pyrate_Of_Las_Vegas
True but they'll keep insisting ;)@@Pyrate_Of_Las_Vegas
Dune Messiah may be Denis final Dune movie, but you can guarantee it won't be the last Dune movie. The franchise makes WB too much money not to finish it.
Nihil Novi Sub Sole
I recently started reading the sci-fi classics such as Dune 1,2,3 and the Foundation series. Which Star Wars books should I start with? Any other recommended books, sci-fi or otherwise?
For Star Wars books, Darth Bane: path of destruction is excellent, expertly detailing the formation of the rule of two.
Death Troopers is an excellent horror novel with each chapter oozing atmosphere and dread.
Try reading, Children Of Time, Hyperion, A Fire Upon The Deep.
I don't need the Water of Life to predict what will be the overarching theme of "Dune part 3": a conflict between toxic male dictator and stunning and brave female liberator.
Already got your bias set eh?
@@scottbarbour9745 Rather a logical assumption based on what I've seen so far. Of course it's possible mr. Villeneuve will prove me wrong.
Paul's Story is David and Goliath young david slays goliath old david marries many concubines and sleeps with one of his captains wives then plots that captains murder
If they make Dune 3 10 years from now, Chalamet would be a good age for an older Paul but Anya Taylor-Joy would be too old to be a young lady, wouldn't she? Seems like a strange thing to do.
Leto II is nothing like luke skywalker. Actually he becomes even more tyrant than paul
I would like to see a new film treatment of Starship Troopers akin to this treatment of Dune that is not campy and subversive to the work of RAH this is not to say that the original Starship troopers movie wasn't good in it's own righ it just sought to tell it's own story and message and not wholly the message of the book.
With the way Part 2 ended theres no feasible way they can adapt Messiah properly.
With the omission of Alia post birth, Chani leaving Paul behind and from what I interpreted is seems like lady Jessica forced Paul's Kwizatz Hadirat powers out of him and has him in some trance abusing his powers.
A Part 3 would need to exist to course correct to make Messiah accurate.
Part 3 could consist of Jessica going the bidding of the sisterhood to manipulate Paul into having his Fremen loyalists at opposition to the Fremen Messiah deniers as Chani leads a revolt into a Fremen civil war where at the end she or even Alia pull Paul out of his trance.
Paul and Chani get married and untie Arrakis under 1 banner then it leads into Messiah.
Sadly a Part 3 would seem neccessary to course correct and would only exist to milk the franchise and be Dune only in name.
This sounds like a complete disaster... What the hell were they thinking?! I was looking forward to this. But after reading that, I no longer am.
Just because it’s beyond your writing ability, doesn’t mean it’s not possible to do. I don’t even know what trance you’re imagining.
I find Alan's indifference to the Overhyped Dune Phenomenon....Disturbing....LOL
Check out Quin's Ideas for an excellent Audio guide to the Books, all SIX.
0:00 ~> OMG.... *_"§sss†øp I†!!!!!"_*
this wasnt dune. it's denis' hubris
100% best version of Dune is "Dune 1984 Alternative Edition Redux [Spice Diver Fan Edit]" 3 hours long and complete.
Available on UA-cam. BY FAR the best Dune adaptation.
AGREED 🗿💯
Absolutely
In Dune (1984) Paul is a God. He has supernatural control over the weather, he is basically Neo from the Matrix, and able to make it rain on Arrakis by the power of his will. The depiction is that of the “white savior” that
Frank Herbert deplored. I very much like David Lynch, and there is much to applaud, but… yeah, no. By far the best Dune? Really?
@@MROJPC You are 100% right about that specific point, I agree with you. (God part, and Herbert displeasure)
Here are the things I prefer from 1984 compared to D 2
- costumes are amazing and display power and richesses and craft and money and nobility, Dune 1 was bare minimum with costume, but D2 was even worse.
Why emperor envoys are better dressed then ALL Emperor, Empresses, Barons and Princesses??? That was fucked up.
- nearly all the lore is explained (even more so in the 3 hours version) and books inner monologues are present and respected sometimes line for line.
- Irulan and Shani are FANTASTIC women's in 84, I would marry both without hesitations and feel it's the luck of my life. In Denis Dune, only Jessica is interesting but barely. And I would slit my veins or jump from a skyscraper before touching the other two. Looks like Hollywood really HATES women's and feminity. Why do you take beautiful actresses in real life, and transform them into boys (look at Iru and Shani, felt like little boys all along, and visually dressed and behave like boys)
- the Guild is visually displayed, their importance and their role is explained very well + there relations to the other houses.
- The Emperor, and all barons have decors congruent with being the most powerful people in the universe, art, colors, gold, jewels, crated wood and crafted stones, sculptures, fantistic costumes, drapes and banners.
- Denis actors looks like they found their dresses in Warlmart rebate bins during boxing day. That part was particularly sad.
Realize that is your opinion and not a fact.
I have to admit, I was underwhelmed by Dune, two maybe it was overhyped, but some of the dialogue scenes were too long and boring. The Emperor’s troops never put up a fight. The final battle at the end was only a few minutes. The visuals were fantastic. The special effects were great except for the Honan arena with all the animated, phony baloney people in the stadium I’d give it a 6.5 out of 10.
They could use Casey Affleck as older Paul ;)
0:00 ~> OMG.... *_"§sss†øp I†!!!!!"_* (* Great *_ARTWORK_*_ Choice, guys; _Luv that Snake~Wyrm;_ §-†ier _*TOP §helƒ (!!!!)
One quick comment. My son and I are planning to go see Dune on IMAX. My son bought the tickets to go see it. I asked him how much I owed him for the tickets, he said $40. Really?? $40 for two people to see a movie?? Dear Hollywood, I AM DONE WITH YOU! This will be the last movie I see in a theater! I am done with your nonsensical politics. I am done with your outrageously confusing and continuously change fees for streaming, I’m done!
I'm so sick of Dune and all the videos. It seems that half the videos for this channel are about Dune. The majority of people don't care. Please make other content.
I heard that the real hero of Dune II is Zendaya's character. The L the O the L. Methinks the "fandom menace" are gaslighting their fans again. Turn your backs on Hollyweird forever, for the wokeness is here to stay (e.g. it is being enshrined in Law across the West). I should have guessed given all the simping for Zendaya in the first film -- how many times did Paul have slow-mo dreams about her? She's alright but she's not great either. Get me outta here.
Well if you thought Paul was the hero after reading the books then you need to give your head a wobble
Strawmanning is grrrreat. If you watch this film then you're the one who wobbled.@@rob4926
Strawman says what? If you watch this movie then you are the wobbler. @@rob4926
Str*wm*nning much? If there is any "wobbling" being done, it by those going to see this movie. @@rob4926
They are pushing Zendaya on us for goodness sake. Give your own head a wobble, stop strawmanning and wake up. My replies keep getting deleted and this is my last attempt to say fu.@@rob4926
First!
Ok.. This is sounding like they gutted the book.. How is this getting such great reviews if what i just read is accurate?! No way . They fu&$ed this movie sounds like to me.
Because they didn't
Go tell me that the LOTR movie didn't change anything from the books
@@darthcalanil5333 did they make anything up? Or did they just make cuts? Also The Godfather I think made some very wise CUTS but they didn't change the story. The one thing they did change in LOTR was probably the scouring.. although by and large it still kept most of the story intact. Wormtongue still kills Sauraman. Events were mixed around. But I can't think on the original LOTR trilogy anything that completely blatant in majorly altering the narrative.
As a movie, Dune parts 1 and 2 are a cinematic treat, as an adaptation it has some problems. The best Dune in terms of faithful adaptation, is the sci fi miniseries.
No, they didn’t gut the book. People are so desperate to be outraged they‘ll apparently just make things up.
It's going to be full of girl boss. Alia vs Jessica vs Chani vs Irulan. I'm a little worried with how they made the Chani story line
Alia girlbosses it up in Messiah, there's no way around it. She embodies all the feminist tropes we see today. Can't accuse woke Hollywood of subverting the source material if that's the source material.
Then thank God I only plan on reading the first book. Some incredible Left wing Sci fi author wants to lecture me on the dangers of too much faith in a leader? Sounds like he got it right the first time and got sour when the readers didn't interpret his story the way he wanted, the same way Alan moore threw a tantrum when EVERYBODY loved Rorschach in a world full of communists.
I respect the man's skill and world building. I don't intend on reading book 2.
Or Paul verhoven got angry people interpreted starship troopers in a conservative way, or the Attack On Titan mangaka who got angry when people liked having a strong nationalistic military vs giant zombies.
@@Trazynn for Alia, sure, but how do you explain the Chani story line?
@@thuglifebear5256 you should. Book 4-5-6 are amazing. And I'm very conservative
Sooooo.. They didn't adapt Dune as much as they made up a bunch of new sh*t.. ohhhh boy. Thanks. I think I'll skip this one. I loved his take on the Bladerunner universe. But this sounds like a trainereck that gutted the book. And yes . Dune Messiah is supposed to open with the aftermath of what Paul did.. even the book did that.
Just go watch the movie! It was a very faithful adaptation that kept with it's core themes and Chris still loved it despite the Chani change. I still was disappointed there were characters not shown but it's still the best adaptation to date. All those saying that Denis butchered Dune is pure gobblygook! This "made up new sh*t" you refer to did not overshadow the core plot of the story so relax!
At the end of the day, one person's interpretation isn't going to be exactly what another person's is going to be as many people are going to be disappointed somewhat. It is what it is I'm afraid.
The people who seem to be making up a bunch of sh* t are UA-camrs & commenters who either didn’t understand what they saw, or didn’t even see it to begin with.
@@Pneumanon I really hate that argument. People are too dumb to understand. Either they made a faithful adaptation that was true to the characters and the novel, or they didn't.
Gore is a baby
Chris is incentivized to generate outrage.