Those "Unwritten" Catholic Traditions? They Were Actually Written Down (w/ Rod Bennett)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- In this episode of The Cordial Catholic, I'm joined once again by my good friend Catholic convert, author, and historian Rod Bennett to propose a really interesting thesis he's been chewing on these days: that the "unwritten tradition" often criticized by non-Catholic Christians was actually written down.
Maybe you've heard this claim before? That as Christians should rely on the Bible alone and that Catholics have heaped up all kinds of unwritten traditions - barnacles on the once-pure Ark of Christ - that just get in the way of good old fashion Bible Only Christianity. This is certainly the argument that Rod and I would've heard, and believed, as former Evangelical Christians.
But what happens when those so-called "unwritten traditions," those things that Catholics apparently "added" to the once-pure Christian Church, were actually there from the beginning and can be found in the writings of the earliest Christians, those that learned their faith from the apostles?
This week not the who's, Rod tackles that very idea: that the so-called "unwritten tradition" criticized by Christians who claim Catholics have added to the faith, actually existed from the very beginning.
Check out any of Rod's books on Amazon.
For more, visit The Cordial Catholic. Send your feedback to cordialcatholic@gmail.com.
Sign up for our newsletter for my reflections on episodes, behind-the-scenes content, and exclusive contests at newsletter.thecordialcatholic.com
To watch this and other episodes please visit (and subscribe to!) our UA-cam channel.
Please consider financially supporting this show!
For more information visit the Patreon page. All patrons receive access to exclusive content and if you can give $5/mo or more you'll also be entered into monthly draws for fantastic books hand-picked by me at / cordialcatholic
If you'd like to give a one-time donation to The Cordial Catholic, you can visit the PayPal page at paypal.me/cordialcatholic
Thank you to those already supporting the show!
Woah! Joshua Charles last week and now Rod Bennett? It's an Early Church Heavyweight showcase here lately! Won't be giving up this podcast for Lent. :)
I’ve never heard a Protestant ever say thanks to Catholics for the Bible.
I really don't consider myself a Protestant, as I am a LCMS Lutheran. But I certainly do thank the Catholic church for the Bible, simply because I accept that God was using Christians to do the compiling and decision making which resulted in the canon of Scripture.
I don't believe the Catholic church, by the time of the Reformation, was still faithful enough to the true Gospel. If correction had been accepted by the Catholic church in the 16th century, there may not have been a Reformation. But the Pope excommunicated Luther and started the Reformation instead of accepting correction.
@mikemcnamara3777, I believe you! 😢 I was a devout strong Protestant!!! I would have never said thank you for the Bible! No way! The Catholic Church has been lied on like no other!!! And I believed all the lies! And was frankly afraid of the Catholic Church. (Not the people, but the doctrine I thought I knew ). This was learned and the fear was enormous! Well, The Lord Jesus has Blessed me to come into the Faith!! When the lies began to fall apart with the help of the church fathers… ( I didn’t know there were letters ! ) A Catholic man suggested that I might like to read them… I took him up on it .. and I was confirmed into The Catholic Church this past Easter!!! Oh, the Joy and It feels like a dream! 🙏🏻❤️😀 I would have loved to have known sooner, but, the Lord knows best!! 🙏🏻😀❤️ it is shear fear of the prots bc of the lies they believe! 💔 and those lies are ultimately demonic!
And you never will. That’s how much we are hated.
Have you considered the possibility that God alone should be thanked? That what you refer to as the Catholic church used by God to write down and then compile into our canon of Scriptue, is the Christian spiritual ancestors of all current Christians? The present day Catholic church can't claim exclusivity. All Christians can claim that church in those early centuries.
I reverted to Catholicism 30 years ago it took me 14 years of study coming from the Baptist church. The sacraments are God feeding and cleaning His children on the journey on earth.The sacrament of reconciliation to clean us and tha Eucharist to feed us the fruit and reality of the passion of Christ 🏴🇬🇧🙏
🇬🇧 🇻🇦 ❤
@@t.d6379 👍
👍
Discussions like this helped bring me to the Church... my mom's pentecostal history was so shallow and the baptist history that undergirds it isn't much older... once I started reading the entirety of church history I began the slow transition to catholicism...
Best wishes 🙏🏴🇬🇧
#1--Where in the Bible does God REST on the first day of the week to make that day special?
#2--Where in the Bible does God BLESS the first day of the week to make that day special?
#3Where in the Bible does God SANCTIFY the first day of the week to make that day special?
#4--Where in the Bible does God give a name the first day of the week to make that day special?
#5--Where in the Bible does God DECLARE the first day of the week as HIS HOLY DAY to make that day special?
@mitchellosmer1293 What does Acts 20 7 say?
ESV On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. NIV On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.
@@mitchellosmer1293 how did the early church get this wrong ??
@@bigtobacco1098 on the first day of the week in luke 24 jesus breaks bread with clopas and other disciples, and they recognixed him in the breaking of the bread
Wishing evangelicals brothers and sisters in law will hear this podcast.
Catholics want their system to be correct so bad, instead of seeking the gospel truth.
Let me know there email and I’ll email this video to them. 100% guaranteed they’ll see it then!
I see Rod Bennett I thumbs up automatically!
It was great seeing Rod here. He was such a good friend and mentor to me. The part he played in my conversion was pivotal, especially with regard to the early church and Marian devotion. He and his wife are such a blessing to me. Thanks for inviting him to your channel.
What troubles be is the patently dishonest way many Reformed pastors handle Augustine with their congregations. They know most people read nothing of what Augustine actually wrote, so they quote farm him liberally in their sermons or Sunday school classes knowing the common layman will take this to be a historic defense of the Protestant position- which simply does not exist on many fundamental levels. And these pastors know Augustine is not a proto Protestant by any means.
Right???!!!!😂
In my multi-national Catholic community in Poland, one man from Sri Lanka left Catholicism (and his family) over arguments with his father when he was in his teens. He went to another country, was targeted by evangelicals, who VERY quickly groomed him for ministry, and sent him to some kind of 'college' to become a minister. He was assigned to read BITS of Augustine and thought, 'Hey, this guy is brilliant! I want to read more!' So he went and read more on his own, and the more he read, the more he realized, 'This guy is Catholic. Everything he says is true, beautiful, convincing, and CATHOLIC. I need to go back to my Catholic faith.' Eventually he wound up in Poland and met a Polish Catholic girl, and came to us to sort out his situation. I prepared him for confirmation. His confirmation saint-name was Augustine.
From childhood I've thought it requires WILLED IGNORANCE, even willed stupidity to remain Protestant. You've got to just sit in your own easy chair and refuse to question, read, learn, think logically and just be fed pablum all your life. The ones who have enough intellectual energy and honesty to read a little or ask the obvious questions, or - heck - pay attention to history class in school, maybe? - will have to realize that they are sitting comfortably in a 'tradition of men' invented by some guy or woman long after Jesus walked the earth.
And they claim to 'know the Bible' because they memorize verses and hear sermons on the same verses over and over and over again, or join Bible 'studies' that ignore most of the Old Testament. They don't KNOW the Bible; they memorize bits of it. When you start explaining how the Old Testament prefigures the New Testament, and the New Testament fulfils the Old Testament, you find that they go quiet or - if they are honestly seeking truth - they will say things like, 'Nobody ever told me this before.' Yeah, honey, and there's a good reason why they don't teach you the WHOLE Bible: if you really KNEW the Bible, you would come to Catholic conclusions.
I'm teaching a marriage preparation class now, and I've got one Pentacostal (marrying a Catholic) in the group. I naturally go to Scripture when talking about marriage, but I also bring in the biblical basis of confession, for example, and the biblical evidence against contraception. He doesn't raise a hand or argue, and in general he's not a person with a lot of emotions showing on his face, but I have taught for decades and I can see the stillness of listening when I'm saying something true about the Bible that is not what he was taught, and is new to him. His fiancee is an absolutely beautiful heart and soul and I would not be in the least surprised if the combination of her Catholic loveliness and the Catholic Truth he's hearing lead him eventually to the Church. Praying for his conversion. I know he's a sincere Christian with a sound moral and faith foundation, and I'm doing everything to build on that with Bible truths and Catholic teaching undergirded by the Bible.
Right now he’s also planning how to convert to Pentecostal😗@@FigaroHey
Willed Ignorance!. They reek of it.
@@FigaroHey
It can be very frustrating talking to them.
And after answering dozens of questions through reason alone - avoiding differences in belief - I end up explaining the "Holy Trinity, the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit. But they are the same God". And it's pure faith onwards, right? Like that's all they need to disprove all the other arguments prior to that.
It's been really hard to show that it's not a us vs them, but to the Truth that's higher than both sides.
I've been saying the same thing for a long time: we need to stop talking about unwritten oral Catholic traditions! No, these apostolic Traditions were written down in the early centuries of the Church, soon after the Bible was written, by the successors of the apostles.
That's what Catholic called "Deposit of Faith" writings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers which the Catholic Church been protected by their life for 2000 years.. Only Catholic Authorities can trace and point out what is heresy because of this written tradition..which holds the True interpretation of most verses in the bible in which some "Christian" distorted the meaning to support there own heritical view of Theology..
Yes! And that would include the ecumenical councils.
I hear all these claims but no one can actually show me. So many other churches literally claim the same exact thing, none can show any proof that any of the traditions actually came from the apostles and the traditions differs depending on the church. 🥱
@@KnightFel none because even if your eyes have seen and read about it, You choose NOT TO believe in it..
The Bible is a written Tradition, Baptism, Confession of Sin, The Eucharistic, Penance, Marriage, Praying for the Soul that separated from the body so God have mercy on them, to be save and to go to heaven(Praying for the dead) as protestants say it.. Intercession of the Saints.. And more.. All this are tradition some are even before Christ come.. You can read it from the bible.. What more evidence do u ask for? It's convenient for u to say that NO ONE can show u where this tradition comes from because we're on the NEW Era now and we can't go back to the actual past.. If we want to go back in the past all we can do is READ the Epistles of the people from that time..which for sure u don't accept because u already close your mind to your own reality..
@@KnightFel Ya know, if you really care about the truth, you don't have to wait for anybody to show you anything. You could start reading the writings of Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus yourself (or Rod Bennett's _Four Witnesses_ as an intro or other books by Jimmy Akin and Joe Heschmeyer on the early Church fathers).
If someone taught and ordained by the apostles wrote down in the 1st century that "The apostles taught/instructed us to do X," would you concede that X is indeed an apostolic Tradition with equal authority as their teachings/instructions written in Scripture?
Augustine would never be allowed to occupy the pulpit of ANY magisterial Protestant church I ever attended (or big Eva either)
@@CatholicDefender-bp7mythat is our great divide which is one of the biggest reasons we consider the catholic church apostate. We trust the Word of GOD is living & we believe all that is in it. The roman catholic church is an obvious evil stain on Christianity & GOD'S Word. The history of it should stop one in their tracks just as mormanism to the one considering it.
What is a "magisterial Protestant church," please? St Peter and St Paul, having learned from Jesus Christ, went forth to preach the Gospel, and Christianity was born. The Church Fathers further studied and developed the stories and the messages to formulate and document The Church History and gathered the theretofore "oral traditions" to the Tradition of the Magisterium of the Church that Jesus Christ, Himself, established: "Upon this Rock I shall build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail upon it." "Protestant" churches evolved after The Protestant Revolt, spearheaded by a disgruntled monk, Martin Luther. While Luther was correct to call out certain corruptions taking place at the time (e.g. the inappropriate sale of indulgences), he ran a bit amok, removing books of the Collected Bible, and penciling in several "solas" here and there.
Brighter minds than ours have spent millennia studying, analyzing and synthesizing materials from numerous sources, with more being discovered up to this day.
So, you made a very strong statement about St Augustine, without sharing any background as to how you came to your viewpoint. I would be interested in hearing what you think.
Blessed Be.
@@cindiloowhoo1166 #1--Where in the Bible does God REST on the first day of the week to make that day special?
#2--Where in the Bible does God BLESS the first day of the week to make that day special?
#3Where in the Bible does God SANCTIFY the first day of the week to make that day special?
#4--Where in the Bible does God give a name the first day of the week to make that day special?
#5--Where in the Bible does God DECLARE the first day of the week as HIS HOLY DAY to make that day special?
(Sunday keepers don’t realize that when they keep Sunday holy they are making a day holy that man ordained, not God, by doing that they have violated the 2nd commandment by making an image, they also violate the 4th commandment and the 9th commandment by lying about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday. I’m sure you could find a few different commandments that are broken by keeping Sunday. That’s why the Bible says if you break one commandment you break them all. Please open your eyes brothers and sisters that keep Sunday before it is to late!)
#6--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary prayed to/with beads.
#7--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary went to/ will go to heaven.
#8--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary is an mediator/intercessor.
#9--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary remained a virgin all her life.
#10--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary did not sin.
#11--Quote the Holy Bible that says a mere man is Head of the church.
#12--Quote the Holy Bible that says there are popes in God's kingdom.
#13--Quote the Holy Bible that says we are to confess our sins to a
priest.
#14--Quote the Holy Bible that says there is an "one holy Apolistic church?
#15--Quote the Holy Bible that says the seventh day is not the Sabbath.
#16--Quote the Holy Bible that says Rome is where Jesus will have His headquarters.
#17--Quote the Holy Bible that says Peter was in Rome.
#18--Quote the Holy Bible that says Mary is the Ark of the covenant.
>>>FACT: I have asked OVER 100 supposed experts on Catholicism to reply to those questions.
All I have received are out of context quotes, told to watch this or that video, or no reply at all!!!
Will you answer them???? At least the first 5 basic questions FROM THE BIBLE.
@@cindiloowhoo1166 Methinks you read a bit much into what the boy said. He's saying that Prots wouldn't let Augustine speak in their pulpits because he was so fundamentally Catholic. I think you're on the same page, except for his liberal use of the term "magisterial."
I believe and was told by Mormons that once the last apostle died (John) that the church fell into apostasy. So my response is, "Then you think Jesus was a liar?" Because he did say he will build his church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail over it.
Mormons claim they still have living Apostles…
Yes, and if anyone looked at LDS (Mormon) history about how “that” came about… it’s sooo not true it’s not even funny compared to the Catholic chain of custody. I know bc I am a former six generation Mormon!!! It is a new religion out of the 1800’s . I am going with the Original!❤️🙏🏻
Some crazy antics coming out of UT right now. Lori/Chad Daybell and Jodi Hildebrandt committing serious crimes against children due to their adherence to fringe LDS beliefs. They believed God was talking to them and directed them to seriously injure, even kill innocent children.@@elizabethking5523
@@elizabethking5523❤❤❤
@@elizabethking5523 All this time looking, and they still haven't found any Indian foreskins? 😂
I know that's probably inaccurate... I don't care, you get my point... magic underwear... Love you, lady!
Rob may mention it but I'd say one of the first church traditions written down was what we call the Jerusalem Council recorded in Acts. That's something Jesus did not settle for them.
Yup! Makes sense!🎉
Rod is such a gentleman... and so pleasant to listen to. The Lord invented "southern hospitality" for the sole purpose of displaying virtues like patience and whit through gracious men like Rod. On my second play through... too many nuggets to get 'em all on the first pass.
The sign of the cross is another example.
Yes, I heard Jim Campbell mentioned that in another video taken from a St. Basil citation.
As an Evangelical, I really appreciate the open spirit of this discussion. No bashing or demeaning. By the way, the notion of a "Great Apostasy" of the church either at the end of the apostolic age or with Nicea and Constantine has been shown to be s "non-starters."
the idea of a great apostasy is the very foundation of the pretention that a 'reformation' of the Church took place in the 16th century, and you are saying it's a non-starter
I absolutely love Rod Bennett
Are the early Church fathers authoritative, credible, trustworthy? I like how Joe Heschmeyer points out that these fathers, like Irenaeus, are who we depend upon to know the 4 gospels. Trent Horn points out how Protestants will sometimes use the fathers against atheists to buttress the reliability of the New Testament but then dismiss the biblical interpretations of those same fathers. There is no escape from grappling with the early fathers without undermining the whole Christian faith. Chain of custody matters.
Yes, very much so. Men like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus of Lyon. These men were either taught by an Apostle or one thing of their disciples and they were all martyred for their Christian faith.
Can I borrow the "chain of custody matters" line?
@@hailholyqueen I'd be happy to accept royalties, lol. I'm sure I picked up the phrase from someone else, like Heschmeyer, who is/was a lawyer.
"There is no escape from grappling with the early fathers without undermining the whole Christian faith." Since the fullness of Christian faith is Catholicism, are you saying that the Church Fathers undermine Catholicism?
@@FigaroHey If one tries to ignore or reject the early Church fathers, one ends up undermining one's own Christian faith. Without the fathers between us and Jesus/the Apostles, we would not have the faith, Scripture, or the biblical canon at all. So if they cannot be trusted to faithfully hand on the faith, Scripture, canon, etc., then the entire Christian faith is in doubt. Protestants think they can do just fine without the earliest links in the chain, but that's been a disaster even for the doctrines we agree on (i.e. rise of atheism challenging the reliability of the New Testament).
Rod's books were very instrumental in my coming into the Catholic Church. And that's what kept me listening. But it took about 15 minutes for you guys to get into anything meaty. I don't know maybe it's me. But I found the banter that went on and on excruciating. There were a dozen times I almost bailed. But you're not the only one that does this. I guess it's kind of a thing now on UA-cam. Spend 5 minutes oohing and aahing over each other, reminiscing about the past, explain how different your approaches to things, blah blah blah. I wish you you would release two versions of your interviews. This one and then an edited one that focus is strictly on content. There's only so much time in the day And I would much much rather use up 20 minutes to get to the heart of the matter than having endure 40 minutes of small talk.
Sometimes content creators publish time stamps that describe what’s being discussed. They are a godsend! I’m not a fan of extended preliminary chit chat either.
I prefer the long form discussions with the small talk.
Ok this guy is smart..i'm gonna debate my methodist sister and her pastor
I wish you luck!
To one convert from another. I converted from anglicanism way back in 1978. I joined the Catholic Church at the young age of 19, towards the end of the Paul VI Papacy. I have never looked back. Anglicans do not have valid sacraments [defined by Leo XIII, Apostolicae Curae, 1896] An anglican service is but a pale shadow of the Holy Mass.
Great conversation. Love this content
It was hilarious when at the beginning of the show Rod was describing how those from New York are more straightforward and are offended by southerners who are less confrontational and its annoying to them because it's perceived as fake lol... I felt like he was describing me to a T (I'm not from NY, I'm from KC, Missouri) but despite that difference in culture, a guy like Rod would immediately disarm you with humor. 😂
NYers...tell it as they perceive, out front, NO TIME to WASTE. LOL . GO NY.
Rod Bennett is a joy and a treasure! This was so enjoyable. Thank you.
Superb interview with top grade scholarship and insight. The facts disclosed here are valuable for all those engaged in apologetics
Culpable ignorance is a teaching of the Church. Anyone stewing in the early Fathers and does not come to the truth of the Catholic Church they are suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.
I think the idea many non-Catholics hold is that the Holy Spirit guided the assembly of the Bible (at least most of the New Testament) as a special revelation while not guiding the church to avoid grave errors elsewhere. It doesn’t make sense why this would be the case, but I guess it is a sort of coherent argument. But, if this was true, then why wait centuries after Christ to guide an apostate church to do this and why would it be another millennium before the true faith is re-discovered?
Interesting. I'm not Catholic or Protestant. I was atheists who converted to Christianity kind of recently, and I don't know which denomination is true. But a thing I can tell in the Protestant argument is that if they need the Holy Spirit to guide them so they can interpret the Bible correctly, it kind of breaks the sola scripture because you have to have the authority of a external source, which is the Holy Spirit, because the Bible doesn't have clear instructions of how interpret it. I can see a Protestant arguing that you can know if an interpretation is correct if it doesn't contradict the Bible, but we have two problems: so, can I interpret the Bible without the Holy Spirit, which is what they claim we need to get the right interpretation? And the contradiction can be just the consequence of your interpretation, which is the thing we are trying to prove. I know we have things that are obvious, like the fact that God makes the first human, but there're other things that are so complex.
@@alexandregb566 also interesting and a bit mind bending. Seems like an impasse when you strip away any straw man and deceptive arguments. I hate to say it comes down to what you love (or what works for the individual), but it looks like that sometimes.
Pointing at ‘pride’ or ‘attachments’ as the ultimate decision maker is frustrating the more I hear actually good arguments on both sides. Anyway, love as a guide doesn’t sound too bad and works for many people that were drawn to Christianity by that in the first place
@@alexandregb566in my opinion, you're on the right track. God bless you.
This guy is great , I can’t believe he only has 9k followers 🙏🏼
Same with Gary Michuta's Apocrypha Apocalypse.
God bless and thanks a ton Dear brethren for this amazing livestream.As a backslidden Catholic I feel so grateful listening to the significant facts addressed by Bro Rod and feel blessed and on a journey retracing my path to the Catholic church..Ameen
This show was great. It's true when Rod said that evangelists will get to the very end of their preaching and get the last things wrong.
This is a side comment but Rob Bennett has one of my favorite speaking voices. The other two speaking voices I like that are Peter Kreeft and Robert Haddad.
Thanks for this. It is becoming clear to me that the church that Jesus established was something more formal than what we see in Protestantism. So many of us in the protestant world grew up ignorant of church history, and ignorant even of why our protestant churches are the way they are.
It seemed to me it took 14 minutes to start the topic
You're quickly becoming an everyday watch for me. Thank you for your time.
Wow. Thank you!
As for Mary Mother of God-What about Elizabeth to Mary , Luke 1 : 44 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? It’s also right there In Scripture..
This is so good! Both of you are so help in my reversion
What a beautiful video! Thank you and God bless you both ❤
Thank you for inviting such amazing guest to your podcast and helping me experience the beautiful richness of Christ church.
Great info and insights
Great podcast. Bravo to both speakers
Excellent, new sub. I took notes! Keep the Faith!
I Would like to see Mike Aquilina and discussion on Church Father's and their Early writings in light of Traditions on your Show too. His Way of the Father's Podcast is 🔥
Heck, even the canonical gospels are simply written down oral tradition.
@user-nz8xr3wq9p.
I found this video to be a complete waste of my time. I found myself wondering if they wished not only to repulse potential converts, but to make Protestants dismiss them out of hand.
There are no written records of Apostolic Tradition anywhere. They simply don’t exist. Perhaps, you could make a case for the forms of rituals or of liturgies being quasi-apostolic. Perhaps. But there is not a single quotation written down from any of the Apostles anywhere outside of Scripture. Not. A. Single. One.
All this guy did was quote church fathers…most of them from the fourth century onward. There was nothing at all which he purported to be Apostolic. And there’s a reason for that: there is nothing.
@@CatholicDefender-bp7my. Excellent, excellent counter-argument there! I’m incredibly likely to change my mind, now. Thanks for showing me the light! Maybe I will find “Catholic Jesus” after all. (I’ve heard he’s way cool. Nothing like that dumpy dude who hunched down and drew in the dirt in the Bible.)
Bingo!
@@HannahClapham As you well know of the separation between the RCC, Orthodox Churches based in Constantinople, Alexandria, Ethiopia etc. What do these Churches in different geographical locations all have in common? Water baptism, Eucharist, Confirmation (Chrismation), Penance (Reconciliation), Priesthood, Marriage, Anointing of the sick. Every one of these practices are built into ALL the liturgies of the Apostolic era Churches. But when we quote Bible to show you these practices are referenced in there, you like so many others reject our interpretations while telling us in the same breath there is not proof. Unreal.
@@alisterrebelo9013. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. If your interpretation of the historical and textual data isn’t particularly compelling, then why exactly should we pay it any heed?
Baptism is there from the beginning, though without any clearcut evidence of infant recipients. The Eucharist is there, including the concept of the Real Presence, but nothing close to Transubstantiation. Confirmation was just an integral part of Baptism. There are Presbyters but no priests of a sacerdotal nature. Orders existed but were probably not all that hierarchical. And yes, Unction was undoubtedly practiced. Clearly, they would have had Confession, but Penance, as such, developed later.
In every Christian tradition, including Rome and including the East, Baptism and the Supper are considered head and shoulders over the other sacramentals. Protestants practice all seven of them and see them all as means of grace…just not necessarily Sacraments. Plus, there are plenty of further sacramentals, like foot washing, for instance.
At my senior center I’ve been challenged by snoddy evangelicals who say things to undermine my catholic faith. I’m tired of this garbage. I was raised in a virulent anti catholic family. I was raised Catholic by the moms as if to make a statement to these awful anti catholic family members. Now as a senior I get this same garbage.
Does your parish have a Senior cub? You may be better off in a group that doesn’t harass you.
I know they can be quite offensive without any self reflection or love.
This is truly a blessing. Just today my copy of Four Witnesses arrived and I am 57 pages in already. Wonderful book. Thank you Rod.
It is fascinating to read a book researched by a Southern evangelical baptist but written by a Roman Catholic.
On relics, they are in the Bible:
2 Kings 13:21
"21 And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Eli′sha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Eli′sha, he revived, and stood on his feet.
And Acts 19:12
"12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.
Thanks for the awareness. It helps.😊❤
Great discussion. One point however, Jesus did speak directly of Marriage & Divorce and those not made for Marriage. Matthew 10:1-12
Lutheran here. I just found this channel and am really looking forward to watching this video because I've been one of those asking where I'm gonna find the Sacred Traditions and Sacred Oral Traditions that Catholic are always referring to. And never getting an answer. But at an hour and 20+ minutes, I will have to schedule a time to watch.
I read the book several times. First time on camera.
I like your slight lisp. It's endearing. 👍🏻
I'm doubtless one of those rude Northerners, but it was very hard for me not to switch channels (never heard of Cordial Catholic prior). Mr.Charles takes fully fifteen minutes to actually start the show and, in my opinion, the first fifteen minutes should have taken place off camera. Complimenting one another and talking about how long you've know each other should be private when it goes to that length. I'm still here and looking forward to the actual discussion because Mr. Bennett sounds well-informed, but (originating from Connecticut and cradle Catholic) it wasn't easy! I prefer forming my own opinion of the guest.
Bless your heart lol
Fantastic discussion 👍
Thank you kindly!
The Sacred Tradition has been formatted and is now called The Catechism of the Catholic Church under the papacy of Pope JP II.
Council of Trents one is better?
It is a Dogmatic rule stated by many Popes that outside the Catholic Church there can be no salvation or forgiveness of sin. If Catholics are honest and charitable this must be stated plainly and often lest outsiders remain at risk for eternal torment.
How do you know that is dogma since no official list of dogmas exists?
Only the intentionally ignorant or evil (same thing) keep themselves uninformed. There are very specific rules and rubrics for publishing dogmas which must be clear even to the illiterate folks. Read the Popes. @@swilliams7850
JP2 certainly did not believe this and I doubt the current Pope does. They issued a Vatican stamp in honor of Martin Luther on the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Deformation.
@@yankeecitygirl
I think you misunderstood my comment. Aside from Marian dogmas, what else is officially a dogma since there is no official list? You'll hear people claim all sorts of dogmatic teachings, but there is actually no official list.
It allows them to change teachings (like the death penalty- 5th lateran council vs. Current teaching) and claim it's not a dogmatic change.
BTW, have you ever wondered what use the magesterium is if they claim they never had a dogmatic teaching on something as serious as the death penalty?
What gets more serious than that? They are just making stuff up so as to not look as if they contradicted a prior teaching.
Whoever honors Luther commits grave sin. @@yankeecitygirl
First time visiting this site and it's taken 14 mins of the host talking....waiting.....no question yet.
Really good information. Some cordial constructive feedback: I’m afraid you will lose viewers bc it’s taking too long to get to the subject of the video.. Almost 15 minutes. Love your channel and I subscribed and have recommended the book and am ordering one!
The explanation l get from Pentecostals on tongues as the secret language of the Holy Spirit, which functions like a code against demons is one tradition, they have never been able to give me a verse for .
In which books can I study the early Christians?
"The Post-Apostolic Church" is a great channel on youtube. A good place to start before you start buying books. There are compilations of their writings and homilies and many Fathers.
Faith of the Early Fathers by William A. Jurgens at Amazon is the best book on the Early Church. The Fathers Knows Best by Jimmy Akins is also good.
Also check out on UA-cam the following shows: Journey Home by Marcus Gordi which features many protestant pastors and atheists testimonies of their convert to Catholicism another show is Call to Communion by David Anders. Also check out Catholic Answers by various Catholic Apologist like Trent Horn, Tim Staples and others. Also Dr. Brant Petri at Catholic Productions is great.
All writings are the writings of men; the only question is whether those men had authority established by Christ or they took the authority themselves, like Luther did.
Jesus established authority in Peter, and Peter then passed that down through apostolic succession while Luther, Calvin and the Protestants rebelled against that authority established by Christ and put themselves in the highest positions😢
Acts 1:21-22 makes apostolic succession impossible after the 1st century.
Not so @justus there are many Biblical verses that prove otherwise for example, Acts1:23-25 and verse 25 calls apostolic succession the “apostolic ministry.” Quote “23 So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias 24 Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chose 25 to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.” Furthermore in verse 26, with the Holy Spirit guiding them they voted and by apostolic succession Matthias replaced Judas, “26 Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.”
@@Justas399why its impossible? When the bible show example of Apostlic succession, like Paul's successor is Timothy and they makes Apostolic succession by laying of the hand..2 Timothy 2:2 Peter's successor is Irenaeus.. The bible stablish it already.. Unbroken Chain of succession for 2000 years...
@@imjulie830 notice the qualifications for apostolic succession. No one after 1st century could fulfill these requirements:
“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us-one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
- Acts 1:21-22
@@Justas399 Jesus didn’t abandon the church after his resurrection. He specifically said he was establishing a church. Never did he say to write down everything and distribute it on the street corners and let everyone interpret it for themselves. The scripture you quote was about replacing Judas and then came Pentecost. And then came 300 years of intense Christian persecution.
If someone could please give me a solid defence against full preterism I would greatly appreciate it, I have heard arguments for the second coming already have taken place and I don’t have any answers against it. A few challenges put forth:
- Often times people present passages about the second coming that have been strongly confirmed and admitted by scholars to be talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.
- I know Catholics believe the antichrist is coming in the future but, the 4 times mentioned in johns letters he is clearly talking about gnostics.
- the church creeds that write about Jesus coming back, if you read the fathers in the day of those councils had confused passages like Matt 24 which is talking about AD70 destruction to be the second coming.
- and if the Didache was written before revelation and revelation was talking about AD70. They would have still be waiting and expecting that event.
Thank you
You took a long time to start on the subject of the discussion.
Thank you, gentlemen. Outstanding podcast. Read your books, Rod. Thank you for your scholarship and insight. Used them in my study preparing to be a deacon. God bless you both.
With all due respect to my Protestant brothers, I enjoy when some call us a pagan religion created by Constantine. Then they say Luther cleaned Christianity to the purest form. I claim to agree. Then show them the church fathers comparing child baptism to circumcision, how can hey loved our mother Mary, how the believed the Eucharist was the actual body and blood of Jesus it blows their mind. The worst part is when you show them Martin Luther/ John Calvin/ Swingly’s view on Mary, on baptism, on the Authority of a church, their head spins in circles. The other one that no one talks about is Robert Brownie, whose separate ideology was brought by the pilgrims to America, on how he ended up being an Angelican Priest.
Also to adds we know Jesus was Jewish , Moses received the 10 commandments hand written from god, and he received the oral Torah , and most important the authority to teach it.
You haven't mentioned it yet and it's not over but what about the fact that the Bible in its current state didn't exist for a very long time, everything was verbal tradition
Our faith handed down to us from the early centuries ❤ apostolic
So all of oral sacred tradition is available to everyone in plain sight. I've been asking a long time and this video and your guest is the first Catholic to give me an answer.
*Starts in earnest at **14:30**.* & Please do a breakdown of the James White vs Trent Horn debates which just occurred at Houston Lutheran church: JW argued that the hints of written materials are insufficient, because not full teachings at the beginning. @thecordialcatholic And we submit to the *papacy*, not given papal claimants who do what no pope can do: officially teach and exemplify public heresy. Dogma does not evolve in a contradiction.
God bless you but I have limited time. Please try to shorten “niceties” and social graces of introductions so as to get into the meat of your interview. Thanks.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
I recall his conversion story in journey home
Video starts at 25:50, the beginning is quite best skipped.
Best comment in this section
Excellent analytical discussion. The Church is the spiritual successor of Israel, which must continue in the liturgical traditions established by the Apostles of the New Testament.
1:09:25 man that is a great comment right there
How do you spell didikay, I want to look that up.
Didache
Also check Justin Martyr First Apology written between 150 to 160 AD it talks of good works and weekly mass on Sunday with the Eucharist and sacraments.
Oral tradition does NOT mean unwritten.
The Church being united? "It'll take a miracle," as Miracle Max said in "The Princess Bride."
With a nice mutton sandwich 😂
For example, the Catholic mass existed 350 years before the Bible existed.
You can have a formal and Sacramental church without going to extremes.
The phrase queen of heaven appears in two passages of the Bible, both in the book of Jeremiah. The first passage deals with the things the Israelites were doing that provoked the Lord to anger. Entire families were involved in idolatry. The children gathered wood, and the men used it to build altars to worship false gods. The women were engaged in kneading dough and baking cakes of bread for the “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18). This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations. Sadly, it became popular among the Israelites as well.
The second passage that refers to the queen of heaven is Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.
It is unclear where the idea that Ashtoreth was a “consort” of Yahweh originated, but it’s easy to see how the blending of paganism that exalts a goddess with the worship of the true King of heaven, Yahweh, can lead to the combining of God and Ashtoreth. And since Ashtoreth worship involved sexuality (fertility rites and temple prostitution), the resulting relationship, to the depraved mind, would naturally be one of a sexual nature. Clearly, the idea of the “queen of heaven” as the consort or paramour of the King of heaven is idolatrous and unbiblical.
There is NO queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse to be worshiped. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25-26; 14:13-14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same: “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46-55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration; on the contrary, she was relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself.
Jesus Himself issued a mild rebuke to a woman who cried out to Him, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you" (Luke 11:27), replying to her, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." By doing so, He curtailed any tendency to elevate Mary as an object of worship. He could certainly have said, “Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” But He did not. He was affirming the same truth that the Bible affirms-there is no queen of heaven, and the only biblical references to the “queen of heaven” refer to the goddess of an idolatrous, false religion.
And it is no coincidence that the early church was in competition with the pantheon of gods in the Roman Empire and Greece. They had patron gods for every little aspect of life. So they came up with Patron saints to offset the pagan pantheon .
I don't think the church has given up . Forcing people is not the method of Christ . We have choices and we are living in a secular world where people are influenced into different beliefs. This period is in fact very important because it is "sifting" the true believers from the superficial ones. God was always and will always be in charge. His church will survive until the end as He promised.
Yeah that’s exactly what Saint Paul was talking about when he said hold on to the traditions that we have handed down to you let no one deceive you,for definitely what Paul said could have been written down then or at a later time it’s just my thoughts
1 THESS 2 :15, '''STAND FIRM IN THE TEACHINGS PASSED ON TO YOU WRITING AND '''''VERBALLY ''''''
...and they are referred to as SACRED TRADITIONS -❤
equally important to SACRED SCRIPTURES❤
Is this unwritten?’ I was taught that the Apostle James evangelized in Spain around 40 CE. While there he had a vision of Mary the Mother of Jesus. This has become a popular pilgrimage spot. According to the Nuns there were two miracles: the vision itself and that Mary was still alive in Palestine. Unwritten holy Tradition of the Church or just of the Nuns?
This is a really great vid! I would describe myself as proto-catholic - I agree with 95% of Catholic teaching. About Marian veneration - it seems to me that Irenaus isn’t saying we should venerate Mary in the way that is understood today - at least not from the quote read in the video, he is just stating what Luke recorded in Luke 1. About the prayer to Mary from the AD 200s - that still seems like it could be a later accretion. To put this in context - it is 217 years between the Resurrection and our first recorded prayer to Mary (usually dated to roughly AD 250). If we put this in terms of American history - 217 years ago from 2024 - Thomas Jefferson was president. That seems like quite a large stretch of silence for me if this dogma indeed goes back to the apostles
In my opinion, the foot washing was more the result of a necessary and an ingrained part of culture and worldwide civilizations during the time period. Sandal wearing was a predominant form of footwear, and there were less (or no) paved roads depending on the area. The Romans had created linear right angle main thorough-ways with stone pavers. But the majority of travel was through dirt roads, and the exposed feet of any populace were continuously kicking up daily dust, dirt, and wading through muddy roads, etc.. Most local travel was done by walking (as Jesus and the apostles walked town to town).
As protective footwear evolved and paved roads increased, the need for foot washing as a tradition eventually fell by the wayside, and today is virtually extinct, except for some cultures who continue this tradition (primarily for the sake of tradition).
I am a cradle Catholic, but I am not inclined to venerate the relics or pray to a saint, except for very few occasions.😊
Why are Inventions are nonstop for the one true church?
I personally find some of the claims Protestants have traditions as well very unconvincing. The abortion one in particular, there is no tradition being held believing abortion is murder. It is using intuitive reason and logic. We infer things all the time by deductive reasons. If god says it is wrong to murder an innocent human being. And we know that the baby in a mothers womb is a human being, then the termination or “murder” of an innocent human being would be wrong. No need for any tradition to come to that conclusion.
But the rest, like readings of the fathers is very convincing
To my Protestant friends: Hey, no charge😂
I accept what you say about traditions, but I have a few sticking points. (I actually never knew the main argument was about traditions being added later.) How do you reconcile praying to Mother Mary with 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” The other sticking point is confessing to a priest. God is omnipresent, we can go directly to him and ask for forgiveness. God is no longer confined in the Holy of Holies and only the priest can approach him. Also, how do you reconcile the statues/idols? We’re not supposed to have idols. I’m Evangelical, and somehow I ended up in this rabbit hole 🤷🏻♀️
The guest talked about all the sticking points you have.
@@Spiritof76Catholic Hmmm, I don't think he was that specific. I'll have to watch again.
@@Laurenski67 Perhaps I should have said he covered most of your points. Regarding 1Tim2:5 yes, Catholic theology has always taught Jesus is the “one mediator between God and man” but the entire thought includes verse 6, “who gave himself as a ransom for all” ie paid the price for our sins, atoned for our sins, etc. Now look at 1Tim2:1-4 it doesn’t prohibit us from acting as a mediator it encourages it, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” In other words the inspired writer is telling us we can pray for others. A synonym for intercession is meditation. Catholic Christians call this intercessory prayer where we act as a subordinate mediator. Does this make sense?
@@Spiritof76Catholic Thank you! Protestants also believe in intercessory prayer, but just not by the deceased.
@@Laurenski67 Thank you for your opinion but protestant theology is not reliable. I’ll trust Jesus and his body the infallible Catholic Church.
Traditions of men is not the same as Sacred Traditions. I had heard before that the S. Traditions are written down but not made into a book. Traditions of men is written with a small t .
They were written down, but it's not their written form that provides their authority. It is the fact that they reflect the oral, lived tradition extending from the apostolic age and first believed by the apostles, either specifically or in seed form. This is no different from the authority of the inspired Scriptures, which also have their origin in the oral tradition and teachings of those who knew Jesus.
The gospels were oral tradition before they were written down and then the oral tradition of the church fathers were written down and so on that’s just how it works 🙂
If so, it's just like the way the Roman Catholic has been responding to all of the abuse scandals for decades now - shame the victim, deny fault, move priests to hide them, shift assets to shield them including trying to limit defense to just parish or diocese - ONE? True Church, declare bankruptcy to limit testimony reduce settlements , etc. Is this doing your best to reconcile sin????? This behavior was known of and approved by all in the magesterium - world wide for decades now. How is this any different than other things you are calling Tradition?
The Word of God is only in written form today. That is the ultimate authority for the Christian and the Christian church.
@@Justas399
You sound like a Protestant 🙂l have a question if an evangelical Protestant disagrees with his pastor and gets kicked out of the church how can he go down the street and join another evangelical church, how can he be out of the church but yet also in the church and if both evangelical church’s are guided from error by the Holy Spirit, how can there be 2 evangelical churches with different views and opinions.
@@Justas399where does the Bible make this claim?
14 minutes to get onto the subject!
Questions: 1.) When did the Catholic Church decide that Pope's are infallible? 1860's it seems. Was that from the 1860's forward? Or was it retroactive to include the period in the approximately 500's to 1,000's when a series of Pope's were so bad that they are referred to in history as "Anti-Popes". One of them hated his predecessor so much that he had his body dug up, propped up on a throne, tried him in the Papal Court, and excommunicated him.
2.) Every Christian reveres Mother Mary. From Mary's presumed age alone it appears that Jesus was the first-born, and from many Old and New Testament sources as well. Jesus is said to have had 4 brothers and 2 sisters. But when did the Catholic Church decide that she was a "Prepetual" Virgin? If that was true wouldn't that make all of Jesus's 4 brothers and 2 sisters divine? Each having not been concieved by human interaction?
Having considered these questions, the Catholic Church was very instrumental in preserving the Holy Bible. And Saint Thomas Aquinas is probably the most important of all the Church fathers, although he was clearly wrong about a couple of things, like End Times Events.
BTW, was the Pope infallible who deemed that anyone who read the Bible in any language other than Latin should be burned at the stake, or racked, or beheaded? Why wouldn't that apply to you heretic English Bible readers now?
Summary: All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, save one, Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And I, an atheist in my teens and twenties, have been a believer for 50+ years, although a filthy Protestant, by your reckoning. Nevertheless, I still expect to see some of you in Heaven.
1: Very early, I cannot give you a date. I suppose from the beginning.
Anti-popes are not bad popes, they are popes who claim to be popes but are not, in opposition to validly voted popes. The pope is not simply infallible there are requirements to this. It would be like having two Presidents or Prime Ministers voted into office at the same time.
2: Not all Christians revere Mary, some call her anything from a container to simply a sack, something they would never call their own mother.
The Bible names several people as Jesus' brethren, his relatives. Ancient Hebrew did not distinguish from brother and cousin. Even if they are His siblings this does not mean they are Mary's children. They could be Josephs children from a previous marriage.
The only time the Bible gives a genealogy of Mary and Joseph is when only Jesus is named.
It is also Odd that the Bible that loves a Genealogy lists Mary's relative, Mary and Clopas children but does not do this with Mary's and Joseph? The two sons of Clopas are the same names given for Jesus' brothers.
And again, there is this missing genealogy of Mary and Joseph, it should be "brother and sisters of Jesus"
I have never heard of anyone being burned or anything else for reading the Bible in anything other than Latin. The Bible was quickly translated into many languages while English is a new language. English for some reason was late to get a translation, but this may be due to not needing one.
Through this period of history if you were educated you were taught to read Greek, this is why so much of the NT was written in Greek, later Latin became the universal language and education became so bad that that was pretty much what was taught and what was written in. (eventually French became the universal language to be replaced by English.)
The early English translations were so bad that eventually the king authorized a translation. He didn't commission a translation but merely gave his stamp to one that was good.
Catholics don't consider Protestants to be filthy, simply deceived and robbed of the truth by the original heretics and then those who through ignorance spread fallacies.
Mary had one mother, one father.
Jesus had one mother, one father .
Very strict prenuptual traditions in the Hebrew tribe of Judah ... recorded in historical texts.
Even in the world where people don't go to church, people would rather be important in their own estimation, then be unified as one. Humorously, the Eucharist is not "unwritten tradition", yet is "right there in your face biblical". Even if it is biblical, one can dismiss it as "metaphoric". Even more ironic, is the bible is written in English, which is no-where close to the language that was spoken or written BC. Since the bible is in English, it is a man made translation, which in itself, now creates a whole new list of problems.
Yes like understanding Mary by the title Kecharitomene.
My goodness you have no idea how many online debates I've gotten myself into with just this issue. Where's it in the bible? Well I can list quite a few mentions but my kicker is John 6:53. The first church was the Upper Room. Oh no, that's metaphorical they claim. Maddening and sad. And the awful things they say about Our Lady, I've become convinced they're almost working for Satan because it's just that bad.
@@emmap1159 no one hates our lady more than the one whose head she crushes. Division is a tool of Satan. Protestantism his greatest accomplishment.
I love cliches. They get any point across quickly so we don't waste our time.
I wonder if Protestants know that Luther held a deep love of the Blessed Virgin.
Without sacred tradition there are no sacred scriptures. There is no Bible. St Jerome translated the first Bible from Hebrew and Greek into Latin. He finished the first Bible, the Latin Vulgate, in the year 405. The English translation of the Latin Vulgate is the Douay-Rheims Bible. 14:36
4.3 mins into it and still on intro, so turned off
Thanks for making it 4.3 minutes in!