Always love your content Paul, you are one of the people that got me intro HIFI! I did get my own setup some months ago ( sonetto III Sonus faber, and an ARCAM 30 amp ) and wauw its a nice starting system haha, but diffently wanna save up, and start to get some of PS audio stuff like your power plants to evolve my system. Your videos have learned me SO much, so thank you!.
Brightness in a system can sound beautiful and non-fatiguing. Harshness in good speakers is due to distortion, usually from the source component, so getting a better speaker can make things worse. For near field desktop listening, the room and treatment thereof is almost irrelevant. Have an expert help you determine the true origin of the harshness and then decide on an appropriate solution. Whatever the reason for the fatigue, musical speakers that are not highly resolving and are depressed in the upper midrange will be easier on your ears. What you do will depend on your attitude and approach to musical playback.
Bought many speakers over the years,hoping to hit a nirvana jackpot, but keep going back to my Ruark Talisman from the 90's.All musical warmth and no fatigue.Do not underestimate the beauty of silk dome tweeters.
I quite agree with Paul. In my office setup, I use first-generation Kef LSX speakers & a subwoofer (Cabasse brand, but it doesn't matter). This combination works very well to avoid listener fatigue. Fun fact: My volume control is usually set to “20”, and as luck would have it, just last night I was listening to a very dynamic recording which required me to turn the volume up to 50 - 55 to be able to enjoy the sounds of the softest instruments (otherwise I couldn't hear them, beside the loudest instruments) and despite this, I felt no fatigue and no need to turn the volume down. Quite impressive! You could also consider pinching or un-pinching the orientation of your speakers until you get the less “fatiguing” sound, it works quite well, but it really depends on the quality of the speakers in question, I think.
Fatigue often comes with bad listening hygiene. We can "learn" to listen for just about any volume. In my experience, we have an "optimum" volume based on each recording. Deviating from that gives our brain additional stress - that turns into fatigue.
As others here have mentioned, the room can be a huge influence, often the dominant one, on harshness. And beyond that, it can be anywhere in the chain, from the source material to the speakers. Sometimes it's just the wrong pairing of cabling with components.
Most people relate loud to distortion. I sometimes play a game with new listeners to my system. I slowly turn the volume up without any talk. So they become accustomed to the higher volumes without knowing the level. The when they turn to say something and suddenly realize the volume level is so high they have to raise their voice quite a bit. They've never experienced a system where loud did not mean distorted or harsh. Maggies! Gotta love em!
Too many variables here to talk about “Sound Compression”, but perhaps we could start somewhere like, gain levels on preamp output and amplifier input gain. Mismatching stages, too much gain here or there. Too "fast" an amplifier (high gain = dynamics) with a "fast" preamp stage (too much gain that cannot be varied = potential clipping plus distortion) or too similar components on both (capacitor types) or components vibrating (resonating) etc etc etc… Can of worms here but i have found a balance of a "slow" amplifier and an "ultra fast" preamp creates a beautiful balance or vice versa for a non fatiguing sound that i play for hours and hours.
I think a big factor in listener fatigue is the digital front end. Think of early CD players. Detailed but caused fatigue. A better DAC with the same chip will sound analogue and a joy to hear for hours. It is all in the PS and the clock.
R2R dacs all the way. I have an Abbas DAC made from a quirky guy in the Ukraine running his own boutique studio based on the classic tda1541 chips. It’s a joy to listen to and I can go for hours even on compressed pop music.
@@mikeg2491 Absolutely! I bet that sounds great. I run a TDA1541a S2 with a Lampizator dual mono output stage and SOTA low noise clock. Joy is the right adjective.
Approximately 5 or 6 years ago, when my 2003 Nissan Sentra's CD player stopped ejecting CDs, I replaced it with a Pioneer head unit (which added a USB port that my stock unit did not have). Well, that Pioneer unit fatigued me in seconds. I had trouble finishing any song. And after skipping from song to song, I turned it off after 5 or 6 skipped songs. With the above experience, the head unit (which included the amp) was what fatigued me. When I eventually put in a Kenwood head unit (similar price -- around $150), it was heavenly. It would not shake the windows. But it sounded great. The speakers disappeared, and they were stock, factory speakers that were nearly 20 years old. So my money is on fatigue mostly coming from the amp. But it could also come from the speakers. When my local high-end audio store upgraded my Vandersteen speakers, the upgrade fatigued me. Everything else with the stereo was the same. But the higher model Vandersteens fatigued me. It turned out that the installer hooked up the right speaker out-of-phase. That will make any stereo fatiguing (and I mean that literally -- any stereo). So it evidences that fatiguing sound can be a speaker issue, too. Once the phase / wiring issue was corrected, it was like winning the lottery. Everything just sounded right, and the fatigue problem was gone. One other area that can contribute to fatigue: Lousy source material. It is hard to listen to so much of the sub-par sound quality of songs that are released from record companies. Hubert, in New York, should probably upgrade his amp.
I’m afraid I’m going to have to throw in my two cents in here, I have multiple systems in my house with speakers at 15k $ and others at 300$ and neither have ear sound fatigue so speakers are either too aggressive or they are not, what I think what happens is power amplifier start to degrade the sound if they are not powerful enough, I think the minimum wattage of an amplifier should be at least 150 watts on 8 ohms and 300w. on 4 ohms per channel and should have high current capability of minimum 25 amps in a dual mono circuit 25 amps X two of high current level, in order not to choke and become harsh and last the source must not be aggressive neither cause that’s where the sound begins.
Too many homes in the US are sterile echoey spaces. Conversation in these rooms is blurred by unpleasant reverberation. This makes the brain work overtime trying to comprehend and untangle the information. Listening fatigue naturally follows quickly. While this may work for playing music live, Playing recorded music in these environments is unpleasant. I prefer a more cozy room. Treated if necessary to reduce RT. +1 on Magnepan and Kef ls50 with rel subs and amps that can drive them properly. Tube preamps ice the cake! 🎵🎶😊🎶🎵
Three aspects of a speaker when pushed loud (85-90 dB and peaks higher) are harsh when: 1) the midrange becomes blarey or beamy (certain vocal and instruments grate your ears), and that's the worst as you ears are most sensitive in the MR; 2) the highs become sibilant (usually with certain kinds of tweeters, like aluminum), the "s" in signing is too lispy; and 3) the bass gets boomy or resonant (woofer excursion problems and/or enclosure design). Then with amps, more power = more headroom, and that helps.
Speaker choice would be the first thing I'd think of. Next would be the DAC & then the sound source. The last thing would be the amp. I don't understand why but when I was using a Toppig E50 DAC & also the Geshelli J2/AKM DAC, there would be some occasional etched shrillness in the sound. Upgraded to a Geshelli J3/AKM with Burson V7 opamps & the problem vanished completely.
Compression can be a factor but i think it's more about frequency contour. Too much relative brightness between 1k and 10k (especially around 5 to 6 k) definitely won't help listening fatigue.
How can you go about this, without mentioning the room. The room/speaker integration is in my experience the most important. How the speaker interacts with the room. Room size, reflections, room modes … The other points are very valid. Any component that reaches closer to their limits will sound more compressed and most likely harsher.
@@Error2username It's not about recording. The room where person listens audio with their speaker plays the biggest role in the audio. Even if you have 10 000 dollar speakers the audio can still sound crap if the room is not very well treated
my recommendation is to remove all potential switch mode power supply powered devices by unplugging same from power sockets, deactivate light dimmers and see if any harshness remains in the system. Unless one’s system is powered exclusively by SMPSs (which are good in isolating hash from other SMPSs) elimination of SMPS from the power line might help to improve smoothness and clarity and radically reduce listening fatigue
What a nice topic to talk about. What about systems that cause listening fatigue at even very low volumes? Why do they even make systems that sound so 'bright to begin with? Speaking from my experience my speakers sounded quite bright even at very low volumes once I changed the DAC sound became warmer(and better) brightness due to speakers I can still feel it but not as much as before. So why just make 'not bright' electronics and speakers?
Paul hit the nail on the head with the Fletcher Munson curve. Bottom line is don't fall prey to that showroom sound. Sounds excellent at low to mid volume and works great at night and in near-field listening due to the way the ear naturally perceives the low and high frequencies. It's not the DAC, it's not the power supplies, it's not the cables, and in most cases it's not the power amp. It's lousy voicing of speakers to sound good in a showroom for under 30 minutes.
i tried it with 4.50 , 4.75 and recently with a 4.200 amplifier , that compression level always happens at the same loudness level . which means speakers are incapable of generating undistorted high volumes . you can also measure the peak voltage levels coming from the speakers when distortion starts , they r way less the amplifier can provide .
Put a little bit of Blutac on your power supply capacitors - that will reduce their microphonics a little. If you don't want to take the lid off, try putting a little on the IEC power connector. Even little things can make a difference.
It’s true that vibration can change the electronic value of components, especially capacitors. I found that my system delivers greater clarity, even at higher volumes, when equipment is kept still. Currently using Stack Audio’s AUVA isolation feet under my transport and network switch.
@@bradburnside7644 You can also use plastic screw on tops for feet, they are much cheaper. Plastic seems to have little sound of its own, and is fairly good at minimising smaller vibrations..
@@bradburnside7644Which parameters of capacitors have you determined to be affected by vibration and to what extent? What does electronic value mean?
That's definitely my experience with my Lintons 85 speakers. I would say it's due to the speakers because I never had that 'compression' problem with my Dynaudio C1. With the Lintons, it almost seems like I can't play louder than the actual loudness of the instrument itself. Of course, as always, a lot depends on the recording as well.
Adequate volume (ref: this channel explained how to setup the volume) and bass, well designed room treatment, wrong crossover or transducers combination (sometimes the culprit is the lack of control of the woofer in the crossover region), amplifier (reading specs between lines)....
Difficult to know what to recommend without knowing the system being used. Initially try toeing in the speakers so their axes cross in front of you.If you can also move them a little closer to the wall behind too,this will shift their balance towards "warm and bassy" .This won't cost anything to do and is worth trying so long as it's not impractical. It's not a complete solution without understanding the route cause,but the user may find high level listening a little more tolerable.
In audio retail back in Seventies, we carried a couple of power amp lines (Sony & Technics come to mind) which had light-bars or extremely fast VU meter circuits that would display 3 or 4 levels of power level output. It turned out to be a marketing bust, because clipping levels displayed up so quickly on the "fast response" settings that customers drew long faces and probably decided those particular models had insufficient power. They didn't, but the meters told the truth about dynamics. Ya, this is a boring point with no good solution.
Nice, he throws in an ad for their speakers as the solution. I know, he brought in the KEF speakers as well, but why not just use your companies speakers at home if they’re superior to the KEF?
How loud is loud? are you bringing your amp over 50%? at that point it may start clipping. Some amps especially the ones from China do play on the brighter side, as most budget speakers. Dali Oberon 1's might be a good choice as they are warm to neutral. or adding some EQ 1-4K range, possibly through your phone or ap. Otherwise desk top you might be better getting powered speakers with DSP.
There is a hum about 116 or 117 hz in this video. This is a room mode in my room which is why it is salient to me. That seems like quite a noise for a more fancy place like yours Paul. What is that?
If the system is ideal (monitors+sub\2.1+ & cross + - 80hz) I would answer in one word, "equalizer". (software-wise, I'd recommend Equalizer APO + Peace GUI)
No doubt that Aspen FR5 is a hi-end speakers from PS Audio. I have also dream of using Aspen FR5 in my home, But still I am unable to realize the dream due to certain problems.
I promise you it's those pesky 25.00 crossovers in just about every speaker out there. How can we have an honest conversation about improving our systems without addressing what I consider the elephant in the room. Until that fact is addressed and fixed, many of our systems are going to be fatiguing. 25.00 crossovers can only do so much no matter how much you try to EQ them or spending obscene amounts on amps to drive these 25.00 crossovers...makes no sense. It's time for all of us to pay a lot more attention to what's inside our speakers before we consider treating our rooms, buying better amps or anything else. imho
@@tedhersh9095 Then opened up every speaker I own and found the same crossover like in every Klipsch speaker. Realized I had never heard anything but these 25.00 crossovers in my life. That problem is fixed now as I run GR Research crossovers. Night and day difference, whether you believe it or not. I did it. I know. Worth every penny. Now my AR Classic 30's are true giant killers and imaging monsters now. Couldn't be happier. Good luck with your speakers. Open them up.
I sit down and listen attentively four to six hours about four times a week, but prefer to live without background music. In my experience a system isn't non-fatiguing because of any one of its parts, but because it's a synergistic whole consisting of exclusively non-fatiguing parts. There are no miracle units or speakers that'll turn a system into something transcendent - everything matters!
Systems fall apart at volume because they are overloading the room acoustic’s ability to dissipate the sound energy and sound quality goes out the window.
We used to have loudness control in audio gear because it adds a benefit of having music become more tonal balanced and enjoyable at lower volume settings due to the human hearing Fletcher Munson curves issue that Paul is mentioning. To be really honest, if you live in a house with a family and want to not wake up the entire family with playing music at less than concert level, loudness can be your best friend. The idea that loudness is somehow an anti audiophile feature is no more true than the thought that our hearing is equally balanced at different listening levels. If you live alone and always play loud, loudness is not a thing, but why do audio manufacturers think this is how the majority of us live? It's not hard at all to engineer a loudness circuit (or DSP code) with an off mode that is 100% not causing any harm to the music fidelity. So let's make loudness control great again and otherwise we're not in need of going back...
A loudness control does not tonally balance anything. It tonally unbalances the flat frequencies, to compensate for human hearing deficiencies at low volumes. And it does virtually nothing at loud volumes. It also adds coloration to the analog signal, because it is yet another active circuit that the signal will traverse. A revealing system will reveal the sound degradation introduced by a loudness control. But most receivers that have a loudness control are probably not revealing enough for you to hear the sonic degradation introduced by activating the loudness control. It is the fact that the sonic damage that a loudness control produces as being the reason why virtually no high-end pre-amps have a loudness control. I am aware of none. And nearly no high-end pre-amps have tone controls, because of the same type of sonic degrading active circuitry that it adds to the analog signal chain. I am not knocking the use of loudness controls. Countless people love them. They serve a very good purpose. What I am writing is that their use is not neutrality, and their use adds distortion to the analog signal chain. But you have to have a revealing system to hear sonic degradation. If you do not hear the sound quality degradation, and you like how it sounds, then enjoy. I used to have a Sony receiver, and I loved the loudness control. And if you do not hear the sound quality degradation, and you believe that you have a revealing system, then you never actually heard a revealing stereo system. Lastly, a loudness control will not solve Hubert's, from New York, fatigue issue. 1) His fatigue sets in at loud volumes, where a loudness control does nearly nothing. 2) If his amp or speakers are causing the fatigue issue, he would still have the same fatigue issue when he activates his loudness control at loud volumes. 3) If Hubert has a loudness control, I will lay 1,000,000 to 1 odds that he tried it.
@@NoEgg4u Obviously loudness control is changing the frequency response by especially boosting the bass to make it sounding more tonally balanced at lower volume. Yes, it's about PERCEIVED tonal balance. Loudness control can be a fixed curve, automatically adjusting against volume level or adjusting against detected average level of the audio content. I do my own DSP based loudness calibration btw, when I stream lossless music. The notion that a revealing system somehow can't co-exist with loudness is one of those things that I've heard many times, but it's not factual. Your cross-over filter in your speakers, your room treatment, your RIAA filter and so on all have impact on the sound waves hitting your ears. obviously loudness compensation in the bass can impact the bass frequencies on phase, but if using a DSP you can use linear phase filters and fine-tune as desired. Considering the trend of audiophile listening rapidly shifting towards lossless streaming, DSP based loudness compensation with high resolution 32 bits or even 64 bits math will eliminate any notion of quantization errors and if you can run in native PCM clock speed e.g. 192kHz, you can forget about your idea of losing details in a revealing system. I'm not suggesting analog loudness control, even I would argue that audiophile engineering can also make that much better than what you found 40-50 years ago in your average receiver. The reason loudness is lacking today is people keep repeating the argument that was valid decades ago. BTW, the other big issue in terms of tonal balance is that we lose treble sensitivity as we age. Boosting the highest treble above 10kHz can recover some of the sense of air and details in this frequency range. I call that "rejuvenation EQ". Would I do it with an analog filter? No.
@@NoEgg4uYou may do test which can all do at any time - just listen to your system at say 75 dB which is for most cases desired by listeners in listening session and slowly turn volume down to say 45 dB so that for example you could talk with someone at instance. I 'll leave conclusions to you. I think you did not undrestand how should work loudness control - it should vanish to zero at higher volume positions - not increase ar appear with volume up. But I am aware thet you always accept it as normal and perfect. Since I listen to loudness corrected volume controlers starting in 1970- best of them had 5 areas in potentiometr, some had 4,3 areas I managed even now with two and find that 2 may be enough .No correction is for me deficiency in amplifier and I resigned to buy like that. About case of Hubert his system. He has no loudness compensation only fixed adopted to loudness requirements (I assume) type of system timbre . This timbre well suits only his low volumes.. With turning up volume it becomes unwanted and not controlable . That is why with lifting volume he even should experience less pleasant impressions then he has at low. First he should get/have system which sounds neeutral ( it will soiund muddy and small in low level) then add to it applicable loudness correction. Long way. Since his system is marvelous in low volumes it may be precious he may also buy another for louder listening. .
@@NoEgg4u If your preamp doesn’t have tone controls at a minimum or say a loudness control it isn’t hifi. You have been deceived into thinking it is by manufacturers. Your hearing is non linear so how on earth can it play back music in a linear fashion without compensating for our hearing? It can’t. Therefore a preamp without tone controls or loudness control isn’t hifi because it is unable to playback linear music at lower volume levels to compensate for how we hear. The greatest distortion introduced into a system is preamps without tone controls/loudness circuits. Properly designed these controls make magic!
Very reasonable approach by Paul. I would add one complicating factor, source material. No equipment tweaking can compensate for a poor recording and its source. Garbage in garbage out (and into your ears).😊
So what’s the plan with those IRS speakers? I mean they look like they’re just a nuisance and a bother are you going to build a purpose built room again for them or are they just gonna sit there with all the office equipment? Guess that’s the thing about finding a practicality with hi-fi Could be a good question not really practicality and hi-fi should never be in the same sentence.
@@steveodian6008 thanks for the speedy reply. Well that got to be a sad day when they leave. To be fair MCINTOSH PSA ETC TO POWER them will be another 70+ so I guess I’ll stick to something with a better ROI and love my life of voluntary simplicity.
You neglect one major thing that is a problem - dynamic range compression in the source material itself. No matter how great your system is and how well it can deliver good volume audio without compression, if the recording itself had compression applied during one of those "remasterings" of the last 20 years, it will be fatiguing to listen to no matter what you do.
TOTAL BS!!!! PS Audio gear is NOT, repeat NOT the savior of Hi-Fi!! There is plenty of gear out there, including PS Audio that can sound fantastic. How to tame harshness or almost any sonic problem in your system? Setup, Setup, Setup!!!!! Unless there is some glaring issue with a piece in your kit, all it takes is smart setup, NOT some special piece of kit, be it amps, speakers or cables claiming to solve the world's problems, that doesn't exist. Don't chase unicorns. Do the homework and try it for yourself to see if it works. We all hear differently, every room is different, we all have preferences, it is all subjective when it comes to sonics. Learn what your preferences are, what you want and like and don't like and work from that. That is all it takes. Also remember, the recording plays a large roll as well. Another recommendation, STOP playing at "self-proclaimed audiophile" levels!! You will damage your ears! Play at comfortable levels for you! I hated covering audio shows because more than half the time I could not stay in a room long enough due to the volume at which they played. No, I do not have a hearing condition, my hearing is exceptional for my age only because my ears overcompensate for my eyes, not because of some "golden ears" or other nonsense. Many "self-proclaimed audiophiles" suffer from hearing damage, why do you suppose that is? Think about it.
I agree with comments about recording/mixing. If it starts out ‘harsh’- it will be so further down the line. Microphones are key (to my ear). I’ve done a fair amount of comparison over the last 40 years on microphones for Saxophone (since I’m a saxophone player). Most sound awful to me. So far, my favorite is the Ribbons- Rode Ribbon (NTR) is my current favorite. Of course, I have not been able to try some of the very expensive mics. So many others sound very ‘brittle’ and harsh to my ears. I have never heard a really high end audio system, but lots of live music, mostly from ‘inside’ the band. It sounds differently there than from audience too.
In spite of Toole and Olive's findings, people don't like neutral, revealing speakers as much as they thought. They're too clean. Look how many people are trying to EQ their systems with implementing tube amps, expensive DACs and acoustic wall treatments. This is a common problem that defy what are supposed to be optimal measuring speakers. Flat measuring speakers beyond say, 12khz, end up with a rise in most room responses. We don't need that much detail up there. At least not with music. Look at what the frequency ranges are of all the instruments used in most music. Up there with this so-called dynamic range and detail is also unintentional distortion. We don't need ALL of the artifacts of the highest frequencies. Look how many designs instead have a rise starting around the 8khz mark and beyond, with trying to get adequate performance out to 20khz. I don't care if some young people's hearing can hear up to 20khz. We don't need it. It would help more if they instead aimed for 15khz and cleaned up the response better around the 10khz range, and instead of flat, had the frequency response falling slightly and ever so gradually down slope. What compounds these issues even further is modern architecture/interior decor trends. Sterile is in now. Wide open floor plans, walls of glass, hard flooring with at most, some postage stamp sized, token rug, in the middle of the room, and minimal furnishing with not much in the way of padding to be found. Pay attention to how casual speech sounds in a room. Many rooms that these harsh systems are in, are acoustically harsh to start with.
My new Odyssey Stratos amp sounded very harsh with lots of vocal sibilance. Manufacturer said bias was the cause so please return for repair. I immediately sold the amp for a loss.
Well, you shot yourself in the proverbial foot by selling the amp at a loss!! If you had returned the Stratos, Klaus could have easily solved the issue by adjusting the bias to suit your preamp and speakers. Odyssey Audio offers one of the best performance for the price ratios in high end audio, period!!!
@starlightgrecording559 Paul McGowan**** Gerard Stroh Here!!! Here is My Take About Harshness on A Stereo System or A PA System Verses Mono or Stereo!!! I Had Lots of Small and Big Stereo Systems In My Younger Days and Now I have A Very High Wattage System as My Stereo System and here it is*** 1. The Biggest Mistake People Make is Say Your Preamp Puts out 1 or 2 Volts in Your Pre-Outs and Your Poweramp input Must Be The Same*** 2 . Say Your Speaker are 100 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms Your Power Amp Must Put Out 100 to 140 at 8 Ohms Not 4 Ohms Because Lets Say Your Are Putting Out 140 Watts At 4 Ohms You Might Be Pushing About Half That Power and Trust Me it Must Be The Same!!! 3. I Make Sure That My Speakers Are Between 90DB to 98Db to Be on the Safe Side of Things Paul McGowan**** 4. Lots of People Want To Get More Bass out of Your System and They Turn Up That Loudness Button or Bass Control and That's A No No in My Book!!! I Use EQ For My System and I Make Presets on My EQ System But Lets Say I Want More Bass in My System I Have A Superbig PA Stereo System and What I Do Is I Turn Up The SubGroups Up on My Mixer Or Lets Say If You Don't Have A Mixer I Turn Up My Subwoofer Output on My Subwoofer or Have A Level Control to Turn Up The Subwoofers If You Have More Than one and Mine Works Awesome!!!! 5. What I Learned About Any Sound System is When You Crank it Louder and If You Get Near The Half Way Point Your Sound System or Stereo Starts to Sound More Midranging Because You Start to Run Out of Headroom First and Your Speakers Don't Sound Clean Anymore So to Help That I Desighted To Have Lots of Headroom and Power and Having over 7 Subwoofer Speakers and Also Having Multi-Speakers Hooked Up and My System I Used 3 Stereo Pairs of Speakers and My Number 3 Pair of Speakers I Used 4 Electro-Voice FR-200 Speakers and if You Add All My Speakers and My Poweramps I am Pushing About 8,000 Watts of Power and it is Too Loud Not Evan at About 2 1/2 and it is Super loud Paul McGowan!!!
You nailed it, Paul, with one exception. That is the recording. It matters so much.
e x a c t l y ! there are untold plenty of horriblly engineered recordings.
@@thomaswachter7782 what you want is a system that reveals what is recorded on the given medium…for better or worse.
Talking about his IRS Infinity loud speakers.
Good question and as usual well answered Paul. Interesting big red button on the desk. I had to store mine away as I found myself using it too much.
Always love your content Paul, you are one of the people that got me intro HIFI! I did get my own setup some months ago ( sonetto III Sonus faber, and an ARCAM 30 amp ) and wauw its a nice starting system haha, but diffently wanna save up, and start to get some of PS audio stuff like your power plants to evolve my system. Your videos have learned me SO much, so thank you!.
Brightness in a system can sound beautiful and non-fatiguing. Harshness in good speakers is due to distortion, usually from the source component, so getting a better speaker can make things worse. For near field desktop listening, the room and treatment thereof is almost irrelevant. Have an expert help you determine the true origin of the harshness and then decide on an appropriate solution.
Whatever the reason for the fatigue, musical speakers that are not highly resolving and are depressed in the upper midrange will be easier on your ears. What you do will depend on your attitude and approach to musical playback.
Bought many speakers over the years,hoping to hit a nirvana jackpot, but keep going back to my Ruark Talisman from the 90's.All musical warmth and no fatigue.Do not underestimate the beauty of silk dome tweeters.
It doesn't break at high volumes tho
I quite agree with Paul. In my office setup, I use first-generation Kef LSX speakers & a subwoofer (Cabasse brand, but it doesn't matter). This combination works very well to avoid listener fatigue.
Fun fact: My volume control is usually set to “20”, and as luck would have it, just last night I was listening to a very dynamic recording which required me to turn the volume up to 50 - 55 to be able to enjoy the sounds of the softest instruments (otherwise I couldn't hear them, beside the loudest instruments) and despite this, I felt no fatigue and no need to turn the volume down. Quite impressive!
You could also consider pinching or un-pinching the orientation of your speakers until you get the less “fatiguing” sound, it works quite well, but it really depends on the quality of the speakers in question, I think.
Fatigue often comes with bad listening hygiene. We can "learn" to listen for just about any volume. In my experience, we have an "optimum" volume based on each recording. Deviating from that gives our brain additional stress - that turns into fatigue.
Well said Paul. I've had great systems that don't cause the listener fatigue.
Don't forget room treatment! A badly treated room will most likely sound very harsh when you crank the volyme up.
As others here have mentioned, the room can be a huge influence, often the dominant one, on harshness. And beyond that, it can be anywhere in the chain, from the source material to the speakers. Sometimes it's just the wrong pairing of cabling with components.
Absorbers at first reflection points have really made a difference in my system when it comes to harshness..
Balance in an audio system top to bottom is so important.
Took years to pound this into my head, but I finally figured it out!
1.5 Million. Either auction or museum. National treasure.
Most people relate loud to distortion. I sometimes play a game with new listeners to my system. I slowly turn the volume up without any talk. So they become accustomed to the higher volumes without knowing the level. The when they turn to say something and suddenly realize the volume level is so high they have to raise their voice quite a bit. They've never experienced a system where loud did not mean distorted or harsh. Maggies! Gotta love em!
Yep.
Maggies with a Bryston amp and Rel subs.
I can listen for hours without fatigue.
Primacoustics and Gik Room treatment helps.
Pure silver cables throughout the system will smoothen out the sound and increase imagery.
Tubes will allow me to listen to my system all day.
Too many variables here to talk about “Sound Compression”, but perhaps we could start somewhere like, gain levels on preamp output and amplifier input gain. Mismatching stages, too much gain here or there. Too "fast" an amplifier (high gain = dynamics) with a "fast" preamp stage (too much gain that cannot be varied = potential clipping plus distortion) or too similar components on both (capacitor types) or components vibrating (resonating) etc etc etc… Can of worms here but i have found a balance of a "slow" amplifier and an "ultra fast" preamp creates a beautiful balance or vice versa for a non fatiguing sound that i play for hours and hours.
I think a big factor in listener fatigue is the digital front end. Think of early CD players. Detailed but caused fatigue. A better DAC with the same chip will sound analogue and a joy to hear for hours. It is all in the PS and the clock.
R2R dacs all the way. I have an Abbas DAC made from a quirky guy in the Ukraine running his own boutique studio based on the classic tda1541 chips. It’s a joy to listen to and I can go for hours even on compressed pop music.
@@mikeg2491 Absolutely! I bet that sounds great.
I run a TDA1541a S2 with a Lampizator dual mono output stage and SOTA low noise clock. Joy is the right adjective.
Approximately 5 or 6 years ago, when my 2003 Nissan Sentra's CD player stopped ejecting CDs, I replaced it with a Pioneer head unit (which added a USB port that my stock unit did not have).
Well, that Pioneer unit fatigued me in seconds. I had trouble finishing any song. And after skipping from song to song, I turned it off after 5 or 6 skipped songs.
With the above experience, the head unit (which included the amp) was what fatigued me.
When I eventually put in a Kenwood head unit (similar price -- around $150), it was heavenly. It would not shake the windows. But it sounded great. The speakers disappeared, and they were stock, factory speakers that were nearly 20 years old.
So my money is on fatigue mostly coming from the amp. But it could also come from the speakers.
When my local high-end audio store upgraded my Vandersteen speakers, the upgrade fatigued me. Everything else with the stereo was the same. But the higher model Vandersteens fatigued me.
It turned out that the installer hooked up the right speaker out-of-phase. That will make any stereo fatiguing (and I mean that literally -- any stereo). So it evidences that fatiguing sound can be a speaker issue, too.
Once the phase / wiring issue was corrected, it was like winning the lottery. Everything just sounded right, and the fatigue problem was gone.
One other area that can contribute to fatigue:
Lousy source material. It is hard to listen to so much of the sub-par sound quality of songs that are released from record companies.
Hubert, in New York, should probably upgrade his amp.
Room acoustics can be quite a big contributing factor
Any self-respecting audio enthusiast should be able to instantly hear when speakers have been wired with different polarity.
I’m afraid I’m going to have to throw in my two cents in here, I have multiple systems in my house with speakers at 15k $ and others at 300$ and neither have ear sound fatigue so speakers are either too aggressive or they are not, what I think what happens is power amplifier start to degrade the sound if they are not powerful enough, I think the minimum wattage of an amplifier should be at least 150 watts on 8 ohms and 300w. on 4 ohms per channel and should have high current capability of minimum 25 amps in a dual mono circuit 25 amps X two of high current level, in order not to choke and become harsh and last the source must not be aggressive neither cause that’s where the sound begins.
Too many homes in the US are sterile echoey spaces.
Conversation in these rooms is blurred by unpleasant reverberation.
This makes the brain work overtime trying to comprehend and untangle the information. Listening fatigue naturally follows quickly.
While this may work for playing music live, Playing recorded music in these environments is unpleasant.
I prefer a more cozy room. Treated if necessary to reduce RT.
+1 on Magnepan and Kef ls50 with rel subs and amps that can drive them properly.
Tube preamps ice the cake!
🎵🎶😊🎶🎵
Three aspects of a speaker when pushed loud (85-90 dB and peaks higher) are harsh when: 1) the midrange becomes blarey or beamy (certain vocal and instruments grate your ears), and that's the worst as you ears are most sensitive in the MR; 2) the highs become sibilant (usually with certain kinds of tweeters, like aluminum), the "s" in signing is too lispy; and 3) the bass gets boomy or resonant (woofer excursion problems and/or enclosure design). Then with amps, more power = more headroom, and that helps.
Source material quality is a number one cause.Also look at cables.Pure copper is the least fatiguing.
Speaker choice would be the first thing I'd think of. Next would be the DAC & then the sound source. The last thing would be the amp. I don't understand why but when I was using a Toppig E50 DAC & also the Geshelli J2/AKM DAC, there would be some occasional etched shrillness in the sound. Upgraded to a Geshelli J3/AKM with Burson V7 opamps & the problem vanished completely.
Compression can be a factor but i think it's more about frequency contour. Too much relative brightness between 1k and 10k (especially around 5 to 6 k) definitely won't help listening fatigue.
How can you go about this, without mentioning the room. The room/speaker integration is in my experience the most important. How the speaker interacts with the room. Room size, reflections, room modes … The other points are very valid. Any component that reaches closer to their limits will sound more compressed and most likely harsher.
Hei gard, ja det er viktigt å ikke kjøpe for små høyttalere💪
How can you go about this without mentioning that most recordings are crap...
@@LoneWolf-pw5wvall ppl know that today, were not talking about recordings😂
@@Error2username It's not about recording. The room where person listens audio with their speaker plays the biggest role in the audio. Even if you have 10 000 dollar speakers the audio can still sound crap if the room is not very well treated
Yes.
my recommendation is to remove all potential switch mode power supply powered devices by unplugging same from power sockets, deactivate light dimmers and see if any harshness remains in the system. Unless one’s system is powered exclusively by SMPSs (which are good in isolating hash from other SMPSs) elimination of SMPS from the power line might help to improve smoothness and clarity and radically reduce listening fatigue
All your answers are in the comments 😀
What a nice topic to talk about. What about systems that cause listening fatigue at even very low volumes? Why do they even make systems that sound so 'bright to begin with? Speaking from my experience my speakers sounded quite bright even at very low volumes once I changed the DAC sound became warmer(and better) brightness due to speakers I can still feel it but not as much as before. So why just make 'not bright' electronics and speakers?
Buy any SX receiver ending in 50. They will make you listen to music all day!
Paul hit the nail on the head with the Fletcher Munson curve. Bottom line is don't fall prey to that showroom sound. Sounds excellent at low to mid volume and works great at night and in near-field listening due to the way the ear naturally perceives the low and high frequencies.
It's not the DAC, it's not the power supplies, it's not the cables, and in most cases it's not the power amp. It's lousy voicing of speakers to sound good in a showroom for under 30 minutes.
Great expectations 👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻
i tried it with 4.50 , 4.75 and recently with a 4.200 amplifier , that compression level always happens at the same loudness level . which means speakers are incapable of generating undistorted high volumes . you can also measure the peak voltage levels coming from the speakers when distortion starts , they r way less the amplifier can provide .
Put a little bit of Blutac on your power supply capacitors - that will reduce their microphonics a little. If you don't want to take the lid off, try putting a little on the IEC power connector. Even little things can make a difference.
It’s true that vibration can change the electronic value of components, especially capacitors. I found that my system delivers greater clarity, even at higher volumes, when equipment is kept still. Currently using Stack Audio’s AUVA isolation feet under my transport and network switch.
@@bradburnside7644There are several parameters listed in a capacitor data sheet, which ones do you measure to see the effect of vibration?
@@bradburnside7644 You can also use plastic screw on tops for feet, they are much cheaper.
Plastic seems to have little sound of its own, and is fairly good at minimising smaller vibrations..
@@bradburnside7644Which parameters of capacitors have you determined to be affected by vibration and to what extent? What does electronic value mean?
Used a notch filter on your 2.5 genesis ,with great success
I’m a deaf audiophile, but what you suggest, sounds good to me.
Compression isn't the only issue. For example, a raised frequency response between 1-3 kHz causes brightness.
That's definitely my experience with my Lintons 85 speakers. I would say it's due to the speakers because I never had that 'compression' problem with my Dynaudio C1. With the Lintons, it almost seems like I can't play louder than the actual loudness of the instrument itself. Of course, as always, a lot depends on the recording as well.
Dynaudio is a great speaker brand, esp. standmount speakers.
I rarely 'immerse' myself any more since one time I nearly drowned in the sound.
always try for an airy sound
Also - the more you turn up the volume the more the room (acoustics) get involved
Changed the Esoteric K03Xs finally to an Audio Research Ref CD9- where the DAC inside is much better.
Adequate volume (ref: this channel explained how to setup the volume) and bass, well designed room treatment, wrong crossover or transducers combination (sometimes the culprit is the lack of control of the woofer in the crossover region), amplifier (reading specs between lines)....
Difficult to know what to recommend without knowing the system being used. Initially try toeing in the speakers so their axes cross in front of you.If you can also move them a little closer to the wall behind too,this will shift their balance towards "warm and bassy" .This won't cost anything to do and is worth trying so long as it's not impractical. It's not a complete solution without understanding the route cause,but the user may find high level listening a little more tolerable.
In audio retail back in Seventies, we carried a couple of power amp lines (Sony & Technics come to mind) which had light-bars or extremely fast VU meter circuits that would display 3 or 4 levels of power level output. It turned out to be a marketing bust, because clipping levels displayed up so quickly on the "fast response" settings that customers drew long faces and probably decided those particular models had insufficient power. They didn't, but the meters told the truth about dynamics. Ya, this is a boring point with no good solution.
Will I ever have a system that lets me hear the organ at the opening of Zarathustra? I gotta have that 16 hz.
Nice, he throws in an ad for their speakers as the solution. I know, he brought in the KEF speakers as well, but why not just use your companies speakers at home if they’re superior to the KEF?
This guy can't put out these videos in the order he made them!?!?
In a past video he has mentioned that he replaced the KEF LS50s with the FR5s.
He does use the Aspens at home.
How loud is loud? are you bringing your amp over 50%? at that point it may start clipping. Some amps especially the ones from China do play on the brighter side, as most budget speakers.
Dali Oberon 1's might be a good choice as they are warm to neutral. or adding some EQ 1-4K range, possibly through your phone or ap. Otherwise desk top you might be better getting powered speakers with DSP.
My best advice for taming harshness in my home audio - don't be poor.
There is a hum about 116 or 117 hz in this video. This is a room mode in my room which is why it is salient to me. That seems like quite a noise for a more fancy place like yours Paul. What is that?
Ingot Klipsch Heresy 4, with a cheap amp and playing it loud it sounds very harsh, get a 50watt amp from a descenr brand it sounds great
And cables
I fixed mine with a new fully balanced pre amp (Topping).
If the system is ideal (monitors+sub\2.1+ & cross + - 80hz) I would answer in one word, "equalizer". (software-wise, I'd recommend Equalizer APO + Peace GUI)
I’m thinking a good pair of speakers and sub like Paul said.
EQ?
No doubt that Aspen FR5 is a hi-end speakers from PS Audio.
I have also dream of using Aspen FR5 in my home, But still I am unable to realize the dream due to certain problems.
I promise you it's those pesky 25.00 crossovers in just about every speaker out there. How can we have an honest conversation about improving our systems without addressing what I consider the elephant in the room. Until that fact is addressed and fixed, many of our systems are going to be fatiguing. 25.00 crossovers can only do so much no matter how much you try to EQ them or spending obscene amounts on amps to drive these 25.00 crossovers...makes no sense. It's time for all of us to pay a lot more attention to what's inside our speakers before we consider treating our rooms, buying better amps or anything else. imho
Let me guess, you’ve watched a lot of Danny’s GR Research videos. 😂
@@tedhersh9095 Then opened up every speaker I own and found the same crossover like in every Klipsch speaker. Realized I had never heard anything but these 25.00 crossovers in my life. That problem is fixed now as I run GR Research crossovers. Night and day difference, whether you believe it or not. I did it. I know. Worth every penny. Now my AR Classic 30's are true giant killers and imaging monsters now. Couldn't be happier. Good luck with your speakers. Open them up.
I sit down and listen attentively four to six hours about four times a week, but prefer to live without background music. In my experience a system isn't non-fatiguing because of any one of its parts, but because it's a synergistic whole consisting of exclusively non-fatiguing parts. There are no miracle units or speakers that'll turn a system into something transcendent - everything matters!
Systems fall apart at volume because they are overloading the room acoustic’s ability to dissipate the sound energy and sound quality goes out the window.
Nope. The listener plays the amp out of its linear range.
We used to have loudness control in audio gear because it adds a benefit of having music become more tonal balanced and enjoyable at lower volume settings due to the human hearing Fletcher Munson curves issue that Paul is mentioning. To be really honest, if you live in a house with a family and want to not wake up the entire family with playing music at less than concert level, loudness can be your best friend. The idea that loudness is somehow an anti audiophile feature is no more true than the thought that our hearing is equally balanced at different listening levels. If you live alone and always play loud, loudness is not a thing, but why do audio manufacturers think this is how the majority of us live? It's not hard at all to engineer a loudness circuit (or DSP code) with an off mode that is 100% not causing any harm to the music fidelity. So let's make loudness control great again and otherwise we're not in need of going back...
A loudness control does not tonally balance anything. It tonally unbalances the flat frequencies, to compensate for human hearing deficiencies at low volumes. And it does virtually nothing at loud volumes.
It also adds coloration to the analog signal, because it is yet another active circuit that the signal will traverse.
A revealing system will reveal the sound degradation introduced by a loudness control. But most receivers that have a loudness control are probably not revealing enough for you to hear the sonic degradation introduced by activating the loudness control.
It is the fact that the sonic damage that a loudness control produces as being the reason why virtually no high-end pre-amps have a loudness control. I am aware of none. And nearly no high-end pre-amps have tone controls, because of the same type of sonic degrading active circuitry that it adds to the analog signal chain.
I am not knocking the use of loudness controls. Countless people love them. They serve a very good purpose.
What I am writing is that their use is not neutrality, and their use adds distortion to the analog signal chain. But you have to have a revealing system to hear sonic degradation. If you do not hear the sound quality degradation, and you like how it sounds, then enjoy. I used to have a Sony receiver, and I loved the loudness control. And if you do not hear the sound quality degradation, and you believe that you have a revealing system, then you never actually heard a revealing stereo system.
Lastly, a loudness control will not solve Hubert's, from New York, fatigue issue.
1) His fatigue sets in at loud volumes, where a loudness control does nearly nothing.
2) If his amp or speakers are causing the fatigue issue, he would still have the same fatigue issue when he activates his loudness control at loud volumes.
3) If Hubert has a loudness control, I will lay 1,000,000 to 1 odds that he tried it.
@@NoEgg4u Obviously loudness control is changing the frequency response by especially boosting the bass to make it sounding more tonally balanced at lower volume. Yes, it's about PERCEIVED tonal balance. Loudness control can be a fixed curve, automatically adjusting against volume level or adjusting against detected average level of the audio content. I do my own DSP based loudness calibration btw, when I stream lossless music. The notion that a revealing system somehow can't co-exist with loudness is one of those things that I've heard many times, but it's not factual. Your cross-over filter in your speakers, your room treatment, your RIAA filter and so on all have impact on the sound waves hitting your ears. obviously loudness compensation in the bass can impact the bass frequencies on phase, but if using a DSP you can use linear phase filters and fine-tune as desired. Considering the trend of audiophile listening rapidly shifting towards lossless streaming, DSP based loudness compensation with high resolution 32 bits or even 64 bits math will eliminate any notion of quantization errors and if you can run in native PCM clock speed e.g. 192kHz, you can forget about your idea of losing details in a revealing system. I'm not suggesting analog loudness control, even I would argue that audiophile engineering can also make that much better than what you found 40-50 years ago in your average receiver. The reason loudness is lacking today is people keep repeating the argument that was valid decades ago. BTW, the other big issue in terms of tonal balance is that we lose treble sensitivity as we age. Boosting the highest treble above 10kHz can recover some of the sense of air and details in this frequency range. I call that "rejuvenation EQ". Would I do it with an analog filter? No.
@@NoEgg4uYou may do test which can all do at any time - just listen to your system at say 75 dB which is for most cases desired by listeners in listening session and slowly turn volume down to say 45 dB so that for example you could talk with someone at instance. I 'll leave conclusions to you. I think you did not undrestand how should work loudness control - it should vanish to zero at higher volume positions - not increase ar appear with volume up.
But I am aware thet you always accept it as normal and perfect. Since I listen to loudness corrected volume controlers starting in 1970- best of them had 5 areas in potentiometr, some had 4,3 areas I managed even now with two and find that 2 may be enough .No correction is for me deficiency in amplifier and I resigned to buy like that.
About case of Hubert his system. He has no loudness compensation only fixed adopted to loudness requirements (I assume) type of system timbre . This timbre well suits only his low volumes.. With turning up volume it becomes unwanted and not controlable . That is why with lifting volume he even should experience less pleasant impressions then he has at low. First he should get/have system which sounds neeutral ( it will soiund muddy and small in low level) then add to it applicable loudness correction. Long way. Since his system is marvelous in low volumes it may be precious he may also buy another for louder listening.
.
@@NoEgg4u
If your preamp doesn’t have tone controls at a minimum or say a loudness control it isn’t hifi.
You have been deceived into thinking it is by manufacturers. Your hearing is non linear so how on earth can it play back music in a linear fashion without compensating for our hearing? It can’t. Therefore a preamp without tone controls or loudness control isn’t hifi because it is unable to playback linear music at lower volume levels to compensate for how we hear.
The greatest distortion introduced into a system is preamps without tone controls/loudness circuits.
Properly designed these controls make magic!
Very reasonable approach by Paul. I would add one complicating factor, source material. No equipment tweaking can compensate for a poor recording and its source.
Garbage in garbage out (and into your ears).😊
Wifi pollution and electronic pollution creates E-smog this penetrates in every component .
So what’s the plan with those IRS speakers? I mean they look like they’re just a nuisance and a bother are you going to build a purpose built room again for them or are they just gonna sit there with all the office equipment? Guess that’s the thing about finding a practicality with hi-fi Could be a good question not really practicality and hi-fi should never be in the same sentence.
They are now for sale. 😢$70K
@@steveodian6008 thanks for the speedy reply. Well that got to be a sad day when they leave. To be fair MCINTOSH PSA ETC TO POWER them will be another 70+ so I guess I’ll stick to something with a better ROI and love my life of voluntary simplicity.
Many "solutions" presented here,but without a proper diagnosis of the problem it's band aid theory..
You neglect one major thing that is a problem - dynamic range compression in the source material itself. No matter how great your system is and how well it can deliver good volume audio without compression, if the recording itself had compression applied during one of those "remasterings" of the last 20 years, it will be fatiguing to listen to no matter what you do.
Buying 3500.00? Speakers without knowing amplifier or source ain’t smart
buy buchardt speakers zero fatigue
Sabre dacs and flac format are the main problem but people is deaf and blind to notice it
FLAC is not inherently harsh. The quality of the recording is much more important.
TOTAL BS!!!! PS Audio gear is NOT, repeat NOT the savior of Hi-Fi!! There is plenty of gear out there, including PS Audio that can sound fantastic. How to tame harshness or almost any sonic problem in your system? Setup, Setup, Setup!!!!! Unless there is some glaring issue with a piece in your kit, all it takes is smart setup, NOT some special piece of kit, be it amps, speakers or cables claiming to solve the world's problems, that doesn't exist. Don't chase unicorns.
Do the homework and try it for yourself to see if it works. We all hear differently, every room is different, we all have preferences, it is all subjective when it comes to sonics. Learn what your preferences are, what you want and like and don't like and work from that. That is all it takes. Also remember, the recording plays a large roll as well.
Another recommendation, STOP playing at "self-proclaimed audiophile" levels!! You will damage your ears! Play at comfortable levels for you! I hated covering audio shows because more than half the time I could not stay in a room long enough due to the volume at which they played. No, I do not have a hearing condition, my hearing is exceptional for my age only because my ears overcompensate for my eyes, not because of some "golden ears" or other nonsense. Many "self-proclaimed audiophiles" suffer from hearing damage, why do you suppose that is? Think about it.
I agree with comments about recording/mixing. If it starts out ‘harsh’- it will be so further down the line.
Microphones are key (to my ear). I’ve done a fair amount of comparison over the last 40 years on microphones for Saxophone (since I’m a saxophone player). Most sound awful to me. So far, my favorite is the Ribbons- Rode Ribbon (NTR) is my current favorite. Of course, I have not been able to try some of the very expensive mics. So many others sound very ‘brittle’ and harsh to my ears.
I have never heard a really high end audio system, but lots of live music, mostly from ‘inside’ the band. It sounds differently there than from audience too.
Totally agree. I added a 10” sub to my desktop system and it is immensely more satisfying.
Press the red button when the sound is bad or someone says stupid stuff 🔊🤔
First, No Desktops! Get real……
In spite of Toole and Olive's findings, people don't like neutral, revealing speakers as much as they thought. They're too clean. Look how many people are trying to EQ their systems with implementing tube amps, expensive DACs and acoustic wall treatments. This is a common problem that defy what are supposed to be optimal measuring speakers.
Flat measuring speakers beyond say, 12khz, end up with a rise in most room responses. We don't need that much detail up there. At least not with music. Look at what the frequency ranges are of all the instruments used in most music. Up there with this so-called dynamic range and detail is also unintentional distortion. We don't need ALL of the artifacts of the highest frequencies. Look how many designs instead have a rise starting around the 8khz mark and beyond, with trying to get adequate performance out to 20khz. I don't care if some young people's hearing can hear up to 20khz. We don't need it. It would help more if they instead aimed for 15khz and cleaned up the response better around the 10khz range, and instead of flat, had the frequency response falling slightly and ever so gradually down slope.
What compounds these issues even further is modern architecture/interior decor trends. Sterile is in now. Wide open floor plans, walls of glass, hard flooring with at most, some postage stamp sized, token rug, in the middle of the room, and minimal furnishing with not much in the way of padding to be found. Pay attention to how casual speech sounds in a room. Many rooms that these harsh systems are in, are acoustically harsh to start with.
Love the bullshit button!
My new Odyssey Stratos amp sounded very harsh with lots of vocal sibilance. Manufacturer said bias was the cause so please return for repair. I immediately sold the amp for a loss.
Well, you shot yourself in the proverbial foot by selling the amp at a loss!!
If you had returned the Stratos, Klaus could have easily solved the issue by adjusting the bias to suit your preamp and speakers.
Odyssey Audio offers one of the best performance for the price ratios in high end audio, period!!!
@@digggerrjones7345 he BS...had his chance and got it wrong.
Imo keff lS- 50 are bright.
First!
ua-cam.com/video/gCCD40eB-cU/v-deo.html
@starlightgrecording559
Paul McGowan****
Gerard Stroh Here!!!
Here is My Take About Harshness on A Stereo System or A PA System Verses Mono or Stereo!!!
I Had Lots of Small and Big Stereo Systems In My Younger Days and Now I have A Very High Wattage System as My Stereo System and here it is***
1. The Biggest Mistake People Make is Say Your Preamp Puts out 1 or 2 Volts in Your Pre-Outs and Your Poweramp input Must Be The Same***
2 . Say Your Speaker are 100 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms Your Power Amp Must Put Out 100 to 140 at 8 Ohms Not 4 Ohms Because Lets Say Your Are Putting Out 140 Watts At 4 Ohms You Might Be Pushing About Half That Power and Trust Me it Must Be The Same!!!
3. I Make Sure That My Speakers Are Between 90DB to 98Db to Be on the Safe Side of Things Paul McGowan****
4. Lots of People Want To Get More Bass out of Your System and They Turn Up That Loudness Button or Bass Control and That's A No No in My Book!!!
I Use EQ For My System and I Make Presets on My EQ System But Lets Say I Want More Bass in My System I Have A Superbig PA Stereo System and What I Do Is I Turn Up The SubGroups Up on My Mixer Or Lets Say If You Don't Have A Mixer I Turn Up My Subwoofer Output on My Subwoofer or Have A Level Control to Turn Up The Subwoofers If You Have More Than one and Mine Works Awesome!!!!
5. What I Learned About Any Sound System is When You Crank it Louder and If You Get Near The Half Way Point Your Sound System or Stereo Starts to Sound More Midranging Because You Start to Run Out of Headroom First and Your Speakers Don't Sound Clean Anymore So to Help That I Desighted To Have Lots of Headroom and Power and Having over 7 Subwoofer Speakers and Also Having Multi-Speakers Hooked Up and My System I Used 3 Stereo Pairs of Speakers and My Number 3 Pair of Speakers I Used 4 Electro-Voice FR-200 Speakers and if You Add All My Speakers and My Poweramps I am Pushing About 8,000 Watts of Power and it is Too Loud Not Evan at About 2 1/2 and it is Super loud Paul McGowan!!!
Contact bently acustics in south africa check out their rb2 bookshelves i have a set fantastic
Man some people are truly ignorant and obviously uneducated on the subject