I had a local dealer do the same thing, I had just purchased a pair of Vandersteen speakers in 1999 and he asked about cables, I was using 12ga lamp cord. The dealer gave me two sets of cables, set one was $99, set two was $999. I had my brother swap cables without me knowing what was in use and I was able to pick out the branded speaker cables every time from the 12ga lamp cord. I was 50/50 trying to pick out the $99 from the $999 cables. .I went back to my dealer a week or so later and told him what happened, bought the $99 cables. Still using them today
@@Clint3571 Not really sure. The $999 cable was from Kimber, the $99 cables were StraightWire Quartet, I'm still using them. The 12ga cord was from Radio Shack, sold on rolls
My first fancy cable experience was getting some braided speaker cables to solve a crazy EMI problem. My speaker cables were picking up the a_hole CBer down the street with a 1KW linear amp. The speaker wires picked it up, presented it to the amplifier terminals, whereupon the negative feedback tried to correct it out of the signal... it was apalling. (I also helped the FCC bust the guy - he and we were across the street from an airport fercryingoutloud!) Braided wires seemed like the way to go, and my friendly local audio salon (ListenUp Denver) recommended a new brand that just appeared on the market, Kimber™ - at the time, they hadn't got crazy proud of their stuff, and it wasn't ninety dollars a foot or whatever. Solved the problem, but I also noticed the bass got "tighter" and seem to have more punch and extension. Made me a believer, despite being a skeptical EE at the time.
My first cable experience was similar, except I was in the driving seat. I compared 3 different, but fairly cheap, speaker cables and was shocked to hear the difference! Since that day, I’ve been a cable advocate.
As a Business owner/sales guy, my favorite part of this story is that you still remember the principal wasn't there for the sales pitch after he'd promised to be there. I can relate.
I use the 12 foot 14g Micca cables off Amazon in my modest systems. Growing up in the 70's, in my house the Readers Digest was on the coffee table between the TV Guide and those glass grapes everyone had. Ash trays were on the other side of the table. I just read the Humour At work, Humour In Uniform, etc.
I use Bluejeans 12 gauge for my setup. I have done some blind-ish listening tests with Audioquest and...I don't hear a difference. I returned the Audioquest.
yep, this is the sane response. You didn't hear it, because there was no difference. I compared Nordost Valhalla, to Audioquest Type4, and some basic QED stranded. They all sounded the same. And before someone comes up with "oh the system wasn't good enough"... this was through Wilson Yvettes, with a Boulder pre / power setup and a DCS Rossini Apex with Clock. If you can't hear it through this lot... its just not there!
Ironically, Bluejeans cables often cost 3x as much as identical cables from other suppliers, but they have developed a cult following among the flat-earth crowd.
Similar amount of difference in my experience. Both pretty substantial. Have you tried significantly different designs of cables? Nordost, Transparent, AQ all have pretty distinctly different characteristics. The cable that looks (and sounds) exactly like Kimber 12TC and is available on eBay is my preference of the budget cables.
Great video once again Paul. It’s strange as only today a friend asked me about speaker cables and I recanted an almost identical story. For many years I thought it audio snake oil but when auditioning new speakers on my system at a dealer, the accidentally used their cables and not mine. The result was the biggest sound improvement of the day which saved me a whole lot of money! Thanks as always.
I remember buying speaker cables after I bought my Linn Sondek turntable. They were silver coated copper with a 5mm gap to stop induction. I actually saw those woofers move for the first time
Wow hearing the cobra story brought back memories of what I did in the late 80's. Working for a high-performance custom cable manufacturer I came across an article on Litz wire I believe created by a doctor in Europe (?). I had the capabilities to make this with a silver-plated alloy wire insulated with Teflon. Two colors blue and white braided and then combined by color at each end, soldering together. Harmon Kardon amp/receiver into Polk Audio studio monitors that had already sounded beautiful. But the cables just made it roar. I had extra cable made and gave it to a co-worker who had a much lesser stereo system, and the cable difference was mind-blowing. Thank you for your video, Paul! You validated what I heard many moons ago
@@fivish Depends on cable length runs. The difference between 10 and 12 AWG in terms of resistance over 'normal' distances is likely to be minimally significant.
I made Litz's out of 3 strands each of regular cat5. 24 strands total, 12 pos, 12 neg. They sounded better than the 10ga I had been running and I've yet to retire them 25 years later.
Hey Paul - your book and cd really helped in my room setup! I’m fortunate enough to have a dedicated listening room and you made my soundstage blossom!!! I have depth, width and placement galore! When folks come over they can’t believe it. They often ask, how come no sound is coming from the speakers?!!! I remember readers digest, Absolute Sound, and Havens & Hardesty too! Used to be friends with Dick Hardesty too. I currently use AQ Rocket 44’s in my system- love ‘em. Along with AQ power cables. My Pathos amp is quite happy with them! Thanks for the memories…
This took me back. Absolute Audio (thanks, Neil and Evelyn!) was my go-to shop in OC back in the day (later supplemented by Havens & Hardesty and Middleton, White and Kemp). I had the Cobra cables as probably my first speaker wire upgrade. Thanks for the memories!
Correct. And the " few times " was simply rubbing off oxidation from the terminal. Easy to figure if you have least basic knowledge. But when lacking , it seems like witchcraft.
@@OkkeMusik wrong way to say. We care only to have less impedance. That keeps things closer to intended. Just to make a point for a friend , I literally assembled a chipamp directly to the terminals of a speaker driver. Effectively means there is no speaker wire. Versus having the same damned driver and cabinet , but whit a good 10 meter 2.5 mm² regular wire from an old extension cord. The amplifier was the exact same one too. There was no other difference. Yet , Both measured identical enough to be impossible to Tell them apart. There is good money in selling cables at extreme profits. Its mostly Just hype and snakeoil. A reasonable crossection to carry sufficient current , and have sufficiently low impedance is about as good as it will get.
@@nagyandras8857 With a chip amp are you not exchanging one type of cable (speaker wire) for another? (power cable)? Maybe I am not reading you clearly. I am assuming any old 16 gauge speaker wire in a silicone insulation sleeve will do well...
When it comes to inexpensive cables, I do think Monoprice is a good, consistent, reputable brand to go with. Unless you’re dealing with some pretty high end gear, I think you won’t miss a higher end cable. If you have endgame or close to endgame gear for you that you are happy with and won’t upgrade for a long time, then a cable upgrade makes sense… IMHO, if you are looking at cables, I’ve had several bad experiences with Audioquest cables failing (sounded good, but stopped working multiple times). I have been very pleased with Kimber Kables - worth comparing. Also, if you want to keep it a bit more budget, between Monoprice and the others referenced here, Blue Jeans Cables is a great brand to check out too! Good luck, and enjoy the music!
I have never found expensive cables to make a big difference sonically, it is more for the aesthetics. A different remaster or pressing of the same album makes a much bigger sonic difference.
I know this is odd but I use Car audio 10 gauge speaker cables. I used to work in the field for many years and dealing with thousands of watts it seems to hold its own
Nothing to worry about. Speaker cables as long as they are thick enough to carry the current will do Just as well as any of the overpriced audiofoooool stuff floating around.
Thanks for this. Absolute Audio was my first high-end audio store. I loved Neil and Evelyn. First the Santa Ana store, then they moved to a new place. I learned a lot from them. Thanks for the memory, Paul. Jenn in SLO. (love your phono stage, btw!)
It really depends on the speaker and the amplifier. If the speaker impedance is fairly flat and does not have a lot of weird resonances, you won't notice that much difference. However, some speakers require a lot of damping. In my proaudio days, EVs would sound very dirty unless you had a good amp and good cables attached. I worked at a recording studio back then. Some bozo connected the speakers with solid strand 20 ga wire. They were also running on an old D150. One of the temporary tricks I pulled was installing some parallel load resistors inside the cabinet. This made a noticeable improvement in the clarity of the cabinet. Later we switched to Carver amps and oxygen free 16 ga wire, which resolved most of the issues. Another story: I had a set of hand built 15 inch 3-ways with a large horn tweeter that was way more efficient than the woofer. There was a resistor in series with the horn to match the efficiency, but the horn sounded harsh. This was a PA, so they also were having issues with feedback. I ended up installing a 1mfd cap in parallel with the resistor. That got rid of all the weird resonances, and cleaned up the sound. It also resolved their feedback issues. Apparently the horn had all kinds of damping issues, that were fixed by adding the cap. If you really want to test speaker cable, try connecting up a set of Apogee AE-5s. Those cabinets will sound very dirty unless they have a very stiff drive. Good for testing amplifiers or speaker wire. For an install we did at University of IL, I used 6 ga speaker wire and Stewart World amps. System sounded very clean and accurate.
Whatever it was, a moderately priced system will do as well with monoprice cables as with overpriced stuff. Any difference will be insignificant or unnoticed
He was probably swapping between 18 gauge zip cord and the high priced stuff. Use 10 or even 12 gauge pure copper zip cord and you won't hear the difference.
Loved ‘’Readers Digest’’ grew up with it in our home, I am 73 now. Later in years, reader’s digest book of the month club. Cable wiring quality to match your system budget.
Is T L D R the Reader's Digest for those who don't read? Reminds me of the bloke who bought The Sun (UK) for the page three girl when they had Page Three girls. 😊
@@stephenchen1420 A sales person also has to sell their self, since nobody buys from a stranger they don't like. Old people tend to have more money, and Reader's Digest was very popular back when magazines thrived.
Ha! I was well in to my journey when I decided to try cable upgrades. Things changed for me. It’s amazing how much a power cable upgrade does for you noise floor. Audioquest cables are just great. They’re on sale often. Try them.
Horses for courses. Even though I'm an avid 2 channel stereo music lover, I also love the occasional movie, too, and due to lack of space, I have to optimise my setup for multi-channel listening also. However, when it came listening to my newly discovered multi-channel setup, I immediately became aware of how the room sounded different. Didn't know what it was at first, but coming from an audio black background, there was no way I was prepared to put up with it! Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same electrical ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the extremely faint background signal noise I had been experiencing (poor description) had nothing to do with the actual units. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion (one set of them being monoprice Amazon basics 14 awg) that I finally ended up purchasing shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels. Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to almost practically disappear/dissipate The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes, and the better the shielding, the more the cables are likely to disappear. In fact, the last group of cables I changed were from my HDMI's and lo and behold the room became slightly quieter yet again. If one has the same sensitivities and is looking to address this matter, but is also hoping to notice (hear) the incremental differences, I would suggest starting with analogue cables before moving on to digital and power cables (no good getting rid of the quietest when one hasn't addressed the noisiest) Trying to achieve a totally silent room sadly has turned into obsession for me. However, the results speak for themselves. There are times when pressing pause (or mute), I'm unable to differentiate whether the systems on or whether the systems actually switched off. Of course, audiophile equipment helps, but in reality, for one to have an exceptionally quiet room with a multi-channel setup, shielded cables are where it's at.
There is no doubt cables makes a difference but the challenge is at what cost ? In addition, when you have the ability to do an A/B comparison then you may be able to pick up difference... But without the ability to A/B, you most likely will be content... That's my experience.
Ah, Cobra cables. It was the nickname for Polk Audio’s “Sound Cables”. The 1st true HiFi spkr cable of the early 80’s. I used a set for years, with my KEF 105 Series1 spkrs. I liked your story of first hearing HiFi fuses more🔊😎.
If I recall correctly the Cobra cables were green and copper colour and came in either flat ribbon or round. I had a set of flats ones on my old Monitor Audio MA8 speakers and they sounded good.
I use Blue Jeans Cable speaker wire for the front left/right and center speakers and Monoprice 14 gauge cable for my surround speakers. I also use 4K certified HDMI cables from BJC and a mid-level optical cable from Audio Quest. All sound just fine to my 70 year old ears. I draw the line at power cords as i see no value in a 4 ft cable that costs hundreds of dollars or more at the end of my home wiring and power grid wiring.
Halloween, daylight saving and a crazy election all in one week. Paul comes in with a “Hold My Beer” let’s talk about speaker cables to wrap it all up. 💛
….😂…. Including “reader's digest” and “holy moly”…. …again, pure standup comedy from Paul, lacking any reasonable content…. …a good solid distraction from thing happened this week, Phil… …am I wrong? 🤪
OFF TOPIC.......I saw you and your wife yesterday on german TV ( Arte, it´s also part of french TV). It was about a time, when you were much much younger. It actually dated back to 1972, and was about a Rock Festival (2. British Rock Meeting ) in the near of a small german Town called Germersheim. That was fun to see, and also nice to know, that you servered in Germany. The Time you spent in your Volkswagen Bulli, recording Pink Floyd,......gorgious.
Proper cables will improve sound even if the wire inside the speaker is thinner. This is because the length of the thin wire is small compared to the speaker wire length. The longer wires are a larger part of the signal transfer system. The signal is carried in the electromagnetic field AROUND the wires, which is improved and protected from noise due to stray fields.
@@chiphill4856 Speaker cables are not signal cables. Speaker cables carry electrical current. As the electrical current moves through the wire, it creates a magnetic field around it. This magnetic field interacts with the speaker's magnet and voice coil, making the voice coil move back and forth swiftly. Interconnects carry signals, speaker cable carry current.
Being an RF engineer who dealt with transmission cables and knew the necessity to use cables with the right impedance and velocity factor etc I still was skeptical about audio cables. But I heard the difference myself. It still comes down to value and price tho as many cable companies have exorbitant prices taking advantage of the lack of proper terminology to explain the difference. Very very high tech RF cable used for digital cell sites is often cheaper than these high end cables. Makes no sense.
Yeah I agree there are great cables out there that are way better than cheapos but the law of diminishing returns hit pretty quickly in my experience. I'm in the dance music business and use cables that are much better than home audio cables but are cheaper than the super high end cables. Also I wish home audio started using SpeakOn connections instead of banana. It's time to move on
@ for audio? No. My point is RF cable has many specific technical characteristics. You can select the cable you need for specific purposes. And and also very advanced RF cable with outdoor and other protection coverings are less expensive than the magic cables no one seems to put any specifications on - but they do add exotic language about the material source and inexplicable properties and price tags only a marketing guy can love
@@petew2560 I dig those specialized RF cables... yes, there are so many available and they have to be matched to the specs needed for the application and performance. I wasn't an RF engineer but I spent some time in MTSO's and spec'd and installed low-loss coax for runs from antennae to amp for in-building wireless systems... even though it's been years I remember the specific cable I found and stayed with; Times Microwave LMR 400. Compared to all the other RG coax out there it was the best thing available sized for the standard connectors ('N?' it's been 20 years!)
RF cables are fairly straightforward. If you want to learn how audio cables are different consider reading the white papers by Galen Gareis of Iconoclast Audio (by Belden)
Worlds best cables store on Amazon. They buy higher end cables in bulk and sell them in various lengths and connectors. For a lot less than the companies themselves sell them for, and just slightly more than a monoprice or amazon basic.
I had been content with the Monolith 12AWG cable for many years. I still believe them to be an excellent value. Recently I upgraded to Iconoclast Series 2 SPTPC. Galen's YT interviews and published white papers convinced me of his commitment to the objective measurable science. The sound convinced me of their subjective superiority. The improvement was honestly uncomfortable at first. So much more information in the soundstage my brain struggled with over-stimulation. But once you hear it, you can't go back. Next I will try their interconnects.
I bought an expensive cable to try at home. I was sure I heard a difference. Then my wife helped me.swap cables around to do a blind test. Even during the blind test I heard the difference! Unfortunately my answers were 50/50 lol. Since then I am a cable denier haha
I got 12ga stranded copper wire form hone cheapo and twisted them together they worked great for my home theater. It was immediately noticeable over the old lamp cord speaker wire I was using
What are the engineering principles that made the difference in the cables? The cable manufacturers have to know how they are going make and improve them, and it can't just be black magic. Cross sectional area + length has to be part of it, i.e. resistance. Skin effect at audio frequencies just has to be infinitesimal. Difficult speaker load or poor amplifier damping factor across the audio band? I seem to recall that Litz had quite high (or was it low) capacitance due to the construction and that could upset some amplifiers. Do dielectrics matter, and if so, does that mean that the circuit boards in power amplifiers need to be made from particularly precise materials. I'm just thinking out aloud because there is so much that I don't understand, and so many contradictory claims.
Capacitance is another issue. Conductor material is important. Shielding and twisted conductors help with stray noisy fields. The object is to not degrade the signal from what the amp outputs.
@chiphill4856 there seems to be so much snake oil and little explanation. It's as though you are just meant to accept the marketing. I'm sure that Paul, as an engineer, has some ideas but he hasn't shared them, it's just subjective without expressing his engineering understanding. Very disappointing as he is clearly a gifted engineer and audiophile.
I bought into cable skepticism for my first several years of audiophilia and was content with Blue Jeans stuff. Then I bought some used Transparent speaker cables for $200. The difference was an instant, absurd uptick in bass response, treble clarity, and imaging. To confirm I wasn’t imagining things, I recorded the room with each cable and was easily able to identify each in a blind test, a test I’ve repeated a few times since with the same results. Cables absolutely matter.
You need to record the actual power amp output directly from each cable and use something like Smaart or OpenSoundMeter to analyze and compare the differences to make that anything even close an objective conclusion. There are so many factors you're just not even considering. Hate to be the bearer of bad news brother... you got bamboozled.
@@nugznmugz Just using my earholes, brother. When I did the recordings I'd sync them up in an editing program and could easily run a blind test swapping between them and could clearly identify the frequency response differences between the two. Imaging couldn't be captured in the recordings of course, but those are my impressions. If the claim is that all cables sound the same, that claim is false. EDIT: I almost totally forgot this, I did REW sweeps with each because I was updating some convolution filters with the new speaker cables. The REW sweeps did indeed confirm different frequency (and phase) responses between the two.
You said.. "He went behind the speakers and did something a couple of times"...? Are you sure he only changed cables? A magician never tells his tricks.
Now I’d like to try some small scale experiments with my own speakers, like comparing solder connections, too thin of wire, good crimp and bad crimp connections, even oxidized defective wire, to hear what the differences are. I don’t have the equipment or knowledge to measure inductance, and how that also affects the sound. imo, all cables should sound the same, cheap or expensive, as long as they are compatible and good condition, otherwise only defective and incompatible cables would make a difference. “If an engineer does their job well, no one will know, if an engineer fails a job, everyone knows.” If a cable works, it should sound like any other, if it doesn’t, you’d probably notice. I’m certain there are measurable changes worth investigating if you have speaker cables that sound different compared to each other.
Yep i I totally agree. One usually finds disparaging comments tend to come from those who, for whatever reason are unwilling to take the punt! Gratification or justification: Who knows
Just as most haven't done proper testing to eliminate bias and placebo in either direction (positive or negative). Or all the ones trying to claim hearing big differences in minor tweaks despite having mediocre (at best) rooms that severely limit the performance of all systems, not just transparent high end ones.
I don't believe in cables but I'm open to changing my mind. I'd like to see electrical or acoustic measurements. If it can't be measured, it is placebo.
..love the "readers digest" reference.. I use it often when I ask my my wife and daughter how their day was.. lol.... as for expected sound improvements when switching out audio cables, I think there is a point of diminishing returns once you've purchased reasonably good cables and connectors..... unless you can actually confirm the accuracy of your own hearing (which I have done with hearing tests), then confirmed proper speaker placement and room correction steps, then factor in bias and placebo, I think you might find the actual difference to be subtle at best and expensive for miniscule differences in frequencies you might not be able to hear by next year.... owned various maggies for over 25 yrs and currently also have martin logan.. have struggled with power/placement/cables/crossovers/preamps..etc... trying to "tweak" the sound just right...... if you can't hear it it's not worth it...
Larger gauge, less resistance, higher current potential. Shorter length, less resistance. Simple stuff. However I REALLY doubt they're pushing anything with enough current to need anything even close to a 12 gauge speaker cable.
I recall a memorable dinner in about 1987 with Neil and Evelyn Sinclair and Mike Moffat at Bob Stupak's Vegas World, the most spacey casino on the strip. Most people don't realize that Theta made tube electronics, long before they became famous for DACs as Theta Digital.
What I never understood was unless the speaker manufacturer used high-quality wire and crossover components, how can an expensive speaker wire truly improve the sound? For example, You run an audioquest cable from your amp to the speaker, but the speaker company, while still using an OFC wire, didn't use anything special.. Wouldn't you be limited by what the speaker company used? This is a serious question. I have an JBL Sythesis processor, and a couple Parasound amps. They are connected with Canare Star Quad XLRs which I am sure is overkill. I am still rocking my first 7-channel Klipsch RF7ii set. I cannot get ride of them because I saved so long to purchase them in 2012. when I didn't have money and I still enjoy their sound. They're sentimental. Anyhow, I ran 12ga mono price wiring through the walls to the speaker locations when I installed 4 Atmos speakers. I think it all sounds great. Am I really missing something? Again, I have no ideal how good the quality of speaker wiring is inside the Klipsch speaker (RF7ii, RC 64ii, RS62ii). One would have to imagine that has an impact too.
Can I please get some suggestions as to what might be within the classification of "a little higher end"? I might already be there - maybe not as I'm using Blue Jeans - Belden 5000UE 12 gauge speaker cables.
I have always used a High Quality "larger diameter" Audio cable. Until someone shows me something better I'll keep on using what I have. Gold plated Connections also help with transference. Deox is additionally helpful.
Should the money spent on wires be proportional the the money spent on the components? If you spent 5k on speakers and an RX would you spend 5k on wires or would 1k be adequate?
Yes! Solid core is the way to go! Romex is the best 'cheap' audio speaker cable on planet Earth- Period!! Matter of fact, that "starke" difference Paul described is exactly what I heard when switching from "Audiophile" stranded 10 gauge speaker cables to Romex grade house wire that was one big thick 12 awg strand per conductor. I did this simply as an experiment upon reading about solid core cables and learning about how electrons flow in conductors. People do not realize that low end factually transmits much better when it has real mass to flow with/on. Stranded cables fail because low end cannot easily transmit per wire strand and another reason being high frequency phase anomalies resulting from coupling of magnetic fields within the proximity of the strands due to current as well as the skin effect of high frequencies always traveling to the outside of a copper conductor, where, like I mentioned, low end always takes up as much of the mass as it can get which is very little in stranded conductors- even though "technically" two conductors of the same given gauge size can "technically" carry equal amounts of overall current. That is a bit deceptive of a thing to say, really. That's why you can go and buy automotive stranded wire and it will often say how it has lower strand count but with thicker strands to accommodate for low voltage/ high current demands of automotive wiring. Point being, "high end" means nothing if it involves stranded construction. Solid core or Litz of some variety is the way to go for good sound. ....And that includes our precious Romex! 🤘🏼👍🏻😊😀
Seeing those Audioquest boxes...they do a lot to make their copper cables look the part, even when they are not. Maybe that's how to 200X some copper cable price to sell cables for thousands of dollars 😂
I do have a friend who was realy nuts whit speaker cables. Whitout his knowledge i swapped his very pricy very audio cable to regular , cheap cable. And he did not notice for quite some time . Even then Just accidentally discevered that his pricy cables had been disconnected (but left in place) and the cheap cables where running his absolutely fine speakers and amplifiers. Never was a fan of this cable misery. And ever since that i'm verry confident , that all you need is a proper thick whatever cable. Any difference you "think" you find is simply a trick your mind plays on you. That simple. Just as a huge deal of audiofooooool stuff , its Just a trick of your mind.
Even if I believe better cables equal better sound, I just can’t spend too much on it. But instead, being an electrician, I do buy bulk cable, connectors, shrink etc .. And with critical listening, I like to customize my cables with whatever might elevated what is faded to my ears! Not so long ago I thought that immersive sound was achievable only with home theater or tube amp… tweaks, tweaks and more tweaks ! I’m still learning 🎶
@@adamant3844 I have my LCR and subs hooked up with ~$20 Medabridge (?) cables from Amazon and can really tell the difference in the LCRs. The rest of my speakers use Monster cable "lamp wire" and I'm more than satisfied. I don't need cables that cost more than my speakers. I'd rather put the money into birthday trips I take every couple years as a splurge - last year I spend one week in Jordan and 2 in Egypt. Next summer thinking about Italy :) I AM thinking of upgrading my turntable, though.
Cable will only make a difference when the guage is lesser than what is required or copper of cable is inferior. Both would result in higher resistance (ohm). Except this, any quality difference in cables is not detected by human ear. The hype about cables is only to sell their premium brands that give them undue huge profits. Simply, you only need to make sure that the cable conductor is thick enough to carry the signal to speaker without much loss. There is no other function of speaker cables.
So is 12 gauge the best option for a 4ohm speaker or is a more, or less, choice better under a higher classification/ manufacture range such as Kimbre or AQ?
You make a good point. Just because it costs more doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better. People who think it's just confirmation bias think the more expensive cable is always picked, and it's simply not true.
Sure. System synergy. Place a very revealing cable into a system with very revealing speakers and you won’t like it. Put warmer sounding cables in and you might obtain a decent balance
That's a great story! You guys (Paul and Stan) are obviously engineers, and expectation bias goes both ways: one might be the typical audiophile (if they exist) and believe anything may make a difference, or the typical engineer (measurements-oriented and thus caught up in the current state of science), and either mind set is going to make a person hear according to their beliefs (or what they call knowledge, same thing). I've personally done lots of blind tests, as well as fooled people with psychoacoustic tricks such as neon versus candle light (changing nothing else), and know full well that what Paul experienced can set one off on a search for truth. There is no substitute for first-hand experience.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Not following? Paul is an engineer, Stan I don't know exactly, regardless, my point is expectation bias goes both ways (i.e. regardless of what one's expectation is). And?
@@LeonFleisherFan Paul explained it one or two times, wrote it one time clearly (linkedin), ranted against universities another one, and said otherwise many times. It's just how we interpret the definition. Stan is probably an engineer though. However, if the profession doesn't exist and the official ones have a slightly different name, it might be legal. Transparency is better than opacity, if we speak about cables and hi-fi
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Besides, in my experience, autodidactic people often exhibit greater scientific curiosity than academics, and the point I was trying to make is about scientific curiosity being a prerequisite for better understanding - regardless by whom.
@@LeonFleisherFan That's many times true. I agree: self-taught knowledge can be very useful, even if it's partial. Steve Jobs "built" great computers, but he wasn't an engineer and he didn't say that he was one (he went to some classes at university [typography]).. However, I can't say that I'm an airplane pilot or a car driver if I haven't an official license. However, I can say legally that I'm an UFO pilot.
The story you told with the speaker cable swapping ..... You fell for it, as many people. The "normal" cable he was using had resistors hidden in it, when he swapped them over, that's why you heard a massive difference.
I just got rid of my WireWorld Silver eclipse 8 Speaker cables. I grew to hate them after a couple of years. I have now found my end game cables, Fono Acustica Legato Cables? Very romantic cable, tons of detail and very musical. Half the money of the WireWorld, and double the sound quality.
I have heard a difference between speaker cables. I was even going to return my speakers before i got bi-wire cables. What about cable burn in time? what´s that about?
I've got nine channels with three different sets of cables to purchase, so I thought I could save some money and burn the cables in myself. Big mistake. The fact that I live in a small apartment, I couldn't get away from the sound of the burning-in process. It was as if someone was scratching the inside of my skull with tin foil. Neither to say the remaining two sets of cables got professionally burnt in 😂 The funny thing is, though, I never experienced that problem with my two previous sets of false economy cables (one of them being Amazon basics monoprice 14 awg) Strange how I never experienced the same awful burn-in process sound with false economy cables.
Speaker cable burn-in? What is burning in? Is there supposed to be some molecular change in the wire that results in a sonic difference? That's not going to happen. Burn-in is done with audio components under the belief that electrical component characteristics change with age and, new components are not operating at peak performance. I would suggest that this was truer in the tube-world than the semiconductor world, but ok - maybe. With that said, I can't see how any change would take place in wire. Of course, there are people that swear by speaker cable stands to raise the wire off of the ground a couple of inches - claiming that they make a significant difference. I can't how that would be the case either.
@@mitchtaylor6512 Well I guess I need to research that as it makes no sense (speaking as an electrical engineer). If carpet was a suitable dielectric (which it isn't) between the two speaker wires (which are also insulated), then perhaps some level of capacitance between the two conductors would be achieve that would affect the reactive load of the speaker. But in the real-world, I'm just not seeing it.
Short story is back a few years ago me and my friend started building our cable. He had a reference level system and we started taking cables apart and AQ was atrocious! The sound was dark and mild compared to lot of other we had. Top of the line AQ vs Wywires - no comparison! AQ has proven to be the worst sounding cables we had. We started building ours out of Mogami and for the money, they were fantastic! The interconnect we ended up using was Mogami i forgot the designation I have some on my main rig. Those with some WBT connects were seriously the ones to beat! We could beat them but only going 5-6x the cost of the Mogami! True story! I will never buy AQ cable 🚡 never! I'll run lamp cord before I do. But I'm pulling the cords apart and braiding them and covering in helibraid! They even bested my $240,00 Transparent cables! I sold every one I had after that..
For many years I thought a cable was a cable. I would have believed that higher power would have benefited from thicker wire, but I wasn't convinced that the quality of materials and construction would make any difference. Then I ran into Pine Tree Audio. It's so affordable and received such good reviews, I figured it was worth a gamble. The first time I hooked up the cables was the first time I'd ever heard a piano that sounded like a real piano - from the full gutsiness to the softest touch the instrument is capable of. I swapped out all my cables and never looked back. I'm sure there are better cables out there, but if you're on a budget, I assure you a company like Pine Tree will make a huge difference.
AudioQuest have speaker cables at $30K for a pair . (gulp) Some at $600 for a pair. Where is the point of diminishing return? The gauge is is relative to distance and RMS power and not just the speaker Ohms?
I say depends on equipment.. I had standard Amazon speaker cable.. Switch over to blue Jean Cables.. Was I jumping out my seat.. Like damm you here the difference.. No but you did here a difference that's worth the upgrade..
I'm still a cable agnostic, thank you for being reasonable. I'm quite happy with Blue Jeans Cable "10 white" for speakers. The discussion of speaker cable on their website is quite informative.
lx96 is the best value high end speaker cable. Save the money on the more expensive ones. And put Oyaide plugs on like GYT or SRBN. Then you typically only pay about 1/3 - 1/5 than what is normal. Either that or get Dyrholm, or then Cardas or Audioquest.
Try this experiment..... Take a good ofc 14 or 12 guage speaker cable and seperate the two condictors. Make sure they have at least 1 foot apart . Listen , then bring then gradually bring them closer by 3 inches at a time ....then twist them .listen to the results.
Cables do make a difference. Without them I hear nothing out of the speakers.
yeah when i take mine out, the noise floor really drops though
😂
Every cable is a filter
{{sad trombone}} Good one, dad.
it definitely makes a difference ... to your wallet :)
I had a local dealer do the same thing, I had just purchased a pair of Vandersteen speakers in 1999 and he asked about cables, I was using 12ga lamp cord. The dealer gave me two sets of cables, set one was $99, set two was $999. I had my brother swap cables without me knowing what was in use and I was able to pick out the branded speaker cables every time from the 12ga lamp cord. I was 50/50 trying to pick out the $99 from the $999 cables. .I went back to my dealer a week or so later and told him what happened, bought the $99 cables. Still using them today
Were they all the same gauge?
@@Clint3571 Not really sure. The $999 cable was from Kimber, the $99 cables were StraightWire Quartet, I'm still using them. The 12ga cord was from Radio Shack, sold on rolls
My first fancy cable experience was getting some braided speaker cables to solve a crazy EMI problem. My speaker cables were picking up the a_hole CBer down the street with a 1KW linear amp. The speaker wires picked it up, presented it to the amplifier terminals, whereupon the negative feedback tried to correct it out of the signal... it was apalling. (I also helped the FCC bust the guy - he and we were across the street from an airport fercryingoutloud!) Braided wires seemed like the way to go, and my friendly local audio salon (ListenUp Denver) recommended a new brand that just appeared on the market, Kimber™ - at the time, they hadn't got crazy proud of their stuff, and it wasn't ninety dollars a foot or whatever. Solved the problem, but I also noticed the bass got "tighter" and seem to have more punch and extension. Made me a believer, despite being a skeptical EE at the time.
Sounds like while you were selling him something, he was selling you something.
My first cable experience was similar, except I was in the driving seat. I compared 3 different, but fairly cheap, speaker cables and was shocked to hear the difference! Since that day, I’ve been a cable advocate.
Hey Paul, I grew up in a Reader's Digest subscription family. 👍🏽
Just gave my age up and I'm glad to be there.
I used to read it also LOL
It beats the alternative.
As a Business owner/sales guy, my favorite part of this story is that you still remember the principal wasn't there for the sales pitch after he'd promised to be there. I can relate.
I use the 12 foot 14g Micca cables off Amazon in my modest systems. Growing up in the 70's, in my house the Readers Digest was on the coffee table between the TV Guide and those glass grapes everyone had. Ash trays were on the other side of the table. I just read the Humour At work, Humour In Uniform, etc.
I use Bluejeans 12 gauge for my setup. I have done some blind-ish listening tests with Audioquest and...I don't hear a difference. I returned the Audioquest.
yep, this is the sane response. You didn't hear it, because there was no difference. I compared Nordost Valhalla, to Audioquest Type4, and some basic QED stranded. They all sounded the same. And before someone comes up with "oh the system wasn't good enough"... this was through Wilson Yvettes, with a Boulder pre / power setup and a DCS Rossini Apex with Clock. If you can't hear it through this lot... its just not there!
Ironically, Bluejeans cables often cost 3x as much as identical cables from other suppliers, but they have developed a cult following among the flat-earth crowd.
I've found that different interconnects have a much greater impact than changing speaker cables
Similar amount of difference in my experience. Both pretty substantial. Have you tried significantly different designs of cables? Nordost, Transparent, AQ all have pretty distinctly different characteristics. The cable that looks (and sounds) exactly like Kimber 12TC and is available on eBay is my preference of the budget cables.
Paul, that gave me flash backs to your book 99 percent true. The phono stage. The beginnings. Thanks for sharing man. Love your work.
Great video once again Paul.
It’s strange as only today a friend asked me about speaker cables and I recanted an almost identical story. For many years I thought it audio snake oil but when auditioning new speakers on my system at a dealer, the accidentally used their cables and not mine. The result was the biggest sound improvement of the day which saved me a whole lot of money!
Thanks as always.
I remember buying speaker cables after I bought my Linn Sondek turntable. They were silver coated copper with a 5mm gap to stop induction. I actually saw those woofers move for the first time
Wow hearing the cobra story brought back memories of what I did in the late 80's. Working for a high-performance custom cable manufacturer I came across an article on Litz wire I believe created by a doctor in Europe (?). I had the capabilities to make this with a silver-plated alloy wire insulated with Teflon. Two colors blue and white braided and then combined by color at each end, soldering together. Harmon Kardon amp/receiver into Polk Audio studio monitors that had already sounded beautiful. But the cables just made it roar. I had extra cable made and gave it to a co-worker who had a much lesser stereo system, and the cable difference was mind-blowing. Thank you for your video, Paul! You validated what I heard many moons ago
lower resistance in the cable just makes the sound a bit louder.
It science not magic.
@@fivish Depends on cable length runs. The difference between 10 and 12 AWG in terms of resistance over 'normal' distances is likely to be minimally significant.
I made Litz's out of 3 strands each of regular cat5. 24 strands total, 12 pos, 12 neg.
They sounded better than the 10ga I had been running and I've yet to retire them 25 years later.
Hey Paul - your book and cd really helped in my room setup! I’m fortunate enough to have a dedicated listening room and you made my soundstage blossom!!! I have depth, width and placement galore! When folks come over they can’t believe it. They often ask, how come no sound is coming from the speakers?!!!
I remember readers digest, Absolute Sound, and Havens & Hardesty too! Used to be friends with Dick Hardesty too. I currently use AQ Rocket 44’s in my system- love ‘em. Along with AQ power cables. My Pathos amp is quite happy with them! Thanks for the memories…
This took me back. Absolute Audio (thanks, Neil and Evelyn!) was my go-to shop in OC back in the day (later supplemented by Havens & Hardesty and Middleton, White and Kemp). I had the Cobra cables as probably my first speaker wire upgrade. Thanks for the memories!
Obviously he was attaching a heavier gauge copper cable against the lighter gauge. Next.
Correct. And the " few times " was simply rubbing off oxidation from the terminal.
Easy to figure if you have least basic knowledge. But when lacking , it seems like witchcraft.
And the heavier gauge is superior? Is there a speaker wire/cable you would recommend to run an atmos system with a 12 speaker array?
@@OkkeMusik wrong way to say. We care only to have less impedance. That keeps things closer to intended.
Just to make a point for a friend , I literally assembled a chipamp directly to the terminals of a speaker driver. Effectively means there is no speaker wire.
Versus having the same damned driver and cabinet , but whit a good 10 meter 2.5 mm² regular wire from an old extension cord. The amplifier was the exact same one too. There was no other difference. Yet , Both measured identical enough to be impossible to Tell them apart.
There is good money in selling cables at extreme profits. Its mostly Just hype and snakeoil. A reasonable crossection to carry sufficient current , and have sufficiently low impedance is about as good as it will get.
@@nagyandras8857 With a chip amp are you not exchanging one type of cable (speaker wire) for another? (power cable)?
Maybe I am not reading you clearly. I am assuming any old 16 gauge speaker wire in a silicone insulation sleeve will do well...
When it comes to inexpensive cables, I do think Monoprice is a good, consistent, reputable brand to go with. Unless you’re dealing with some pretty high end gear, I think you won’t miss a higher end cable. If you have endgame or close to endgame gear for you that you are happy with and won’t upgrade for a long time, then a cable upgrade makes sense… IMHO, if you are looking at cables, I’ve had several bad experiences with Audioquest cables failing (sounded good, but stopped working multiple times). I have been very pleased with Kimber Kables - worth comparing. Also, if you want to keep it a bit more budget, between Monoprice and the others referenced here, Blue Jeans Cables is a great brand to check out too! Good luck, and enjoy the music!
I have never found expensive cables to make a big difference sonically, it is more for the aesthetics. A different remaster or pressing of the same album makes a much bigger sonic difference.
Well that proves it. How convincing. Scientific memory research from 50 years ago.
I know this is odd but I use Car audio 10 gauge speaker cables. I used to work in the field for many years and dealing with thousands of watts it seems to hold its own
Nothing to worry about. Speaker cables as long as they are thick enough to carry the current will do Just as well as any of the overpriced audiofoooool stuff floating around.
Thanks for this. Absolute Audio was my first high-end audio store. I loved Neil and Evelyn. First the Santa Ana store, then they moved to a new place. I learned a lot from them. Thanks for the memory, Paul. Jenn in SLO. (love your phono stage, btw!)
It really depends on the speaker and the amplifier. If the speaker impedance is fairly flat and does not have a lot of weird resonances, you won't notice that much difference. However, some speakers require a lot of damping. In my proaudio days, EVs would sound very dirty unless you had a good amp and good cables attached. I worked at a recording studio back then. Some bozo connected the speakers with solid strand 20 ga wire. They were also running on an old D150. One of the temporary tricks I pulled was installing some parallel load resistors inside the cabinet. This made a noticeable improvement in the clarity of the cabinet. Later we switched to Carver amps and oxygen free 16 ga wire, which resolved most of the issues.
Another story: I had a set of hand built 15 inch 3-ways with a large horn tweeter that was way more efficient than the woofer. There was a resistor in series with the horn to match the efficiency, but the horn sounded harsh. This was a PA, so they also were having issues with feedback. I ended up installing a 1mfd cap in parallel with the resistor. That got rid of all the weird resonances, and cleaned up the sound. It also resolved their feedback issues. Apparently the horn had all kinds of damping issues, that were fixed by adding the cap.
If you really want to test speaker cable, try connecting up a set of Apogee AE-5s. Those cabinets will sound very dirty unless they have a very stiff drive. Good for testing amplifiers or speaker wire. For an install we did at University of IL, I used 6 ga speaker wire and Stewart World amps. System sounded very clean and accurate.
It was either the cable swap, or the joint they smoked, ... or perhaps more likely, both.
Smoking definitely improves sound appreciation! Js
Whatever it was, a moderately priced system will do as well with monoprice cables as with overpriced stuff. Any difference will be insignificant or unnoticed
You really need to look into the makeup of high end cables with FPC and LGC wire or silver conductors, and you will hear a difference!
@@chiphill4856 Shrooms make the ears and mind even more sensitive to details :)
@@kevinmulligan7855
Maybe, ... and only if the system is optimized and possesses the capability, ... and the speaker/room interface is well sorted.
He was probably swapping between 18 gauge zip cord and the high priced stuff. Use 10 or even 12 gauge pure copper zip cord and you won't hear the difference.
Loved ‘’Readers Digest’’ grew up with it in our home, I am 73 now.
Later in years, reader’s digest book of the month club.
Cable wiring quality to match your system budget.
A good synonym is "a short succinct version" or a "brief summary".
Is T L D R the Reader's Digest for those who don't read? Reminds me of the bloke who bought The Sun (UK) for the page three girl when they had Page Three girls. 😊
@@timleelim9930 , it was The Daily Mirror here in Sydney, Australia. Simplified with American spelling, a newspaper for those who don't read!
@@stephenchen1420 A sales person also has to sell their self, since nobody buys from a stranger they don't like. Old people tend to have more money, and Reader's Digest was very popular back when magazines thrived.
Ha!
I was well in to my journey when I decided to try cable upgrades.
Things changed for me. It’s amazing how much a power cable upgrade does for you noise floor.
Audioquest cables are just great. They’re on sale often. Try them.
Horses for courses.
Even though I'm an avid 2 channel stereo music lover, I also love the occasional movie, too, and due to lack of space, I have to optimise my setup for multi-channel listening also. However, when it came listening to my newly discovered multi-channel setup, I immediately became aware of how the room sounded different. Didn't know what it was at first, but coming from an audio black background, there was no way I was prepared to put up with it!
Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same electrical ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the extremely faint background signal noise I had been experiencing (poor description) had nothing to do with the actual units. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion (one set of them being monoprice Amazon basics 14 awg) that I finally ended up purchasing shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels.
Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to almost practically disappear/dissipate
The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes, and the better the shielding, the more the cables are likely to disappear. In fact, the last group of cables I changed were from my HDMI's and lo and behold the room became slightly quieter yet again.
If one has the same sensitivities and is looking to address this matter, but is also hoping to notice (hear) the incremental differences, I would suggest starting with analogue cables before moving on to digital and power cables (no good getting rid of the quietest when one hasn't addressed the noisiest)
Trying to achieve a totally silent room sadly has turned into obsession for me. However, the results speak for themselves. There are times when pressing pause (or mute), I'm unable to differentiate whether the systems on or whether the systems actually switched off. Of course, audiophile equipment helps, but in reality, for one to have an exceptionally quiet room with a multi-channel setup, shielded cables are where it's at.
There is no doubt cables makes a difference but the challenge is at what cost ? In addition, when you have the ability to do an A/B comparison then you may be able to pick up difference... But without the ability to A/B, you most likely will be content... That's my experience.
Nice and polite answer paul, just from you own experience. Best way to enter the snake pit haha
Ah, Cobra cables. It was the nickname for Polk Audio’s “Sound Cables”. The 1st true HiFi spkr cable of the early 80’s. I used a set for years, with my KEF 105 Series1 spkrs. I liked your story of first hearing HiFi fuses more🔊😎.
How about recreating that demo, since there is such a difference ,it should be heard even on UA-cam.
The theme of his shows should be"Esoteric issues in Audio of no consequence to most people"
If I recall correctly the Cobra cables were green and copper colour and came in either flat ribbon or round. I had a set of flats ones on my old Monitor Audio MA8 speakers and they sounded good.
Canare 4S11 is my cable of choice for speakers
For me, it's 10 gauge Blue Jeans Cable with locking banana plugs. Solid as a rock 💪
I use Blue Jeans Cable speaker wire for the front left/right and center speakers and Monoprice 14 gauge cable for my surround speakers. I also use 4K certified HDMI cables from BJC and a mid-level optical cable from Audio Quest. All sound just fine to my 70 year old ears. I draw the line at power cords as i see no value in a 4 ft cable that costs hundreds of dollars or more at the end of my home wiring and power grid wiring.
Halloween, daylight saving and a crazy election all in one week. Paul comes in with a “Hold My Beer” let’s talk about speaker cables to wrap it all up. 💛
….😂…. Including “reader's digest” and “holy moly”…. …again, pure standup comedy from Paul, lacking any reasonable content…. …a good solid distraction from thing happened this week, Phil… …am I wrong? 🤪
OFF TOPIC.......I saw you and your wife yesterday on german TV ( Arte, it´s also part of french TV). It was about a time, when you were much much younger. It actually dated back to 1972, and was about a Rock Festival (2. British Rock Meeting ) in the near of a small german Town called Germersheim. That was fun to see, and also nice to know, that you servered in Germany. The Time you spent in your Volkswagen Bulli, recording Pink Floyd,......gorgious.
What type of wiring is used inside the Aspen series speakers?
Secret!
@@wj6818
What is the quality of wire used inside audio equipment carrying audio signals in and out.?
Proper cables will improve sound even if the wire inside the speaker is thinner. This is because the length of the thin wire is small compared to the speaker wire length. The longer wires are a larger part of the signal transfer system. The signal is carried in the electromagnetic field AROUND the wires, which is improved and protected from noise due to stray fields.
@@wj6818that's not necessarily true my apogee duetta 2 speakers have 10 AWG wire inside.
@@chiphill4856 Speaker cables are not signal cables. Speaker cables carry electrical current. As the electrical current moves through the wire, it creates a magnetic field around it. This magnetic field interacts with the speaker's magnet and voice coil, making the voice coil move back and forth swiftly. Interconnects carry signals, speaker cable carry current.
I have found overall that an 8tc style of cable is going to be the best match for most gear.
Use to frequent Absolute Audio. Bought a Rega Planar 3 from them.
Being an RF engineer who dealt with transmission cables and knew the necessity to use cables with the right impedance and velocity factor etc I still was skeptical about audio cables. But I heard the difference myself. It still comes down to value and price tho as many cable companies have exorbitant prices taking advantage of the lack of proper terminology to explain the difference. Very very high tech RF cable used for digital cell sites is often cheaper than these high end cables. Makes no sense.
Yeah I agree there are great cables out there that are way better than cheapos but the law of diminishing returns hit pretty quickly in my experience. I'm in the dance music business and use cables that are much better than home audio cables but are cheaper than the super high end cables. Also I wish home audio started using SpeakOn connections instead of banana. It's time to move on
Any RF cable that you would recommend?
@ for audio? No. My point is RF cable has many specific technical characteristics. You can select the cable you need for specific purposes. And and also very advanced RF cable with outdoor and other protection coverings are less expensive than the magic cables no one seems to put any specifications on - but they do add exotic language about the material source and inexplicable properties and price tags only a marketing guy can love
@@petew2560 I dig those specialized RF cables... yes, there are so many available and they have to be matched to the specs needed for the application and performance. I wasn't an RF engineer but I spent some time in MTSO's and spec'd and installed low-loss coax for runs from antennae to amp for in-building wireless systems... even though it's been years I remember the specific cable I found and stayed with; Times Microwave LMR 400. Compared to all the other RG coax out there it was the best thing available sized for the standard connectors ('N?' it's been 20 years!)
RF cables are fairly straightforward. If you want to learn how audio cables are different consider reading the white papers by Galen Gareis of Iconoclast Audio (by Belden)
Four years now, I’ve been enjoying 8 awg copper electrical wire from Home Depot. It sounds amazing and I have no idea why.
I'm a cable enthusiast too. It is an expensive part of the hobby for a passive component.
May I please have the stack beside you? The speaker too?
Worlds best cables store on Amazon. They buy higher end cables in bulk and sell them in various lengths and connectors. For a lot less than the companies themselves sell them for, and just slightly more than a monoprice or amazon basic.
I had been content with the Monolith 12AWG cable for many years. I still believe them to be an excellent value. Recently I upgraded to Iconoclast Series 2 SPTPC. Galen's YT interviews and published white papers convinced me of his commitment to the objective measurable science. The sound convinced me of their subjective superiority. The improvement was honestly uncomfortable at first. So much more information in the soundstage my brain struggled with over-stimulation. But once you hear it, you can't go back. Next I will try their interconnects.
The early 78 RPMs can sound really great with the right equipment
That's begs the question; what makes a cable "higher end"?
Price.
Hes in with the cable companies. I saw a test the same experiment and the audio pros guys couldnt tell the difference
I bought an expensive cable to try at home. I was sure I heard a difference. Then my wife helped me.swap cables around to do a blind test. Even during the blind test I heard the difference! Unfortunately my answers were 50/50 lol.
Since then I am a cable denier haha
I got 12ga stranded copper wire form hone cheapo and twisted them together they worked great for my home theater. It was immediately noticeable over the old lamp cord speaker wire I was using
What are the engineering principles that made the difference in the cables?
The cable manufacturers have to know how they are going make and improve them, and it can't just be black magic.
Cross sectional area + length has to be part of it, i.e. resistance.
Skin effect at audio frequencies just has to be infinitesimal.
Difficult speaker load or poor amplifier damping factor across the audio band?
I seem to recall that Litz had quite high (or was it low) capacitance due to the construction and that could upset some amplifiers.
Do dielectrics matter, and if so, does that mean that the circuit boards in power amplifiers need to be made from particularly precise materials.
I'm just thinking out aloud because there is so much that I don't understand, and so many contradictory claims.
Capacitance is another issue. Conductor material is important. Shielding and twisted conductors help with stray noisy fields. The object is to not degrade the signal from what the amp outputs.
@chiphill4856 there seems to be so much snake oil and little explanation. It's as though you are just meant to accept the marketing. I'm sure that Paul, as an engineer, has some ideas but he hasn't shared them, it's just subjective without expressing his engineering understanding. Very disappointing as he is clearly a gifted engineer and audiophile.
I bought into cable skepticism for my first several years of audiophilia and was content with Blue Jeans stuff. Then I bought some used Transparent speaker cables for $200. The difference was an instant, absurd uptick in bass response, treble clarity, and imaging. To confirm I wasn’t imagining things, I recorded the room with each cable and was easily able to identify each in a blind test, a test I’ve repeated a few times since with the same results. Cables absolutely matter.
You need to record the actual power amp output directly from each cable and use something like Smaart or OpenSoundMeter to analyze and compare the differences to make that anything even close an objective conclusion. There are so many factors you're just not even considering. Hate to be the bearer of bad news brother... you got bamboozled.
@@nugznmugz Just using my earholes, brother. When I did the recordings I'd sync them up in an editing program and could easily run a blind test swapping between them and could clearly identify the frequency response differences between the two. Imaging couldn't be captured in the recordings of course, but those are my impressions. If the claim is that all cables sound the same, that claim is false.
EDIT: I almost totally forgot this, I did REW sweeps with each because I was updating some convolution filters with the new speaker cables. The REW sweeps did indeed confirm different frequency (and phase) responses between the two.
You said.. "He went behind the speakers and did something a couple of times"...? Are you sure he only changed cables? A magician never tells his tricks.
A conspiracy lurks behind every speaker.
@@beauport And some mouse poop
Yeah I got questions about this story…
Now I’d like to try some small scale experiments with my own speakers, like comparing solder connections, too thin of wire, good crimp and bad crimp connections, even oxidized defective wire, to hear what the differences are. I don’t have the equipment or knowledge to measure inductance, and how that also affects the sound. imo, all cables should sound the same, cheap or expensive, as long as they are compatible and good condition, otherwise only defective and incompatible cables would make a difference. “If an engineer does their job well, no one will know, if an engineer fails a job, everyone knows.” If a cable works, it should sound like any other, if it doesn’t, you’d probably notice. I’m certain there are measurable changes worth investigating if you have speaker cables that sound different compared to each other.
How funny, I still have some Cobra Cables that I bought from Absolute Audio stored in my garage.
💯 agree. IMHO most non-believers haven’t actually tried premium cables or can’t afford them so they’re skeptical or at times rude.
Yep i I totally agree. One usually finds disparaging comments tend to come from those who, for whatever reason are unwilling to take the punt! Gratification or justification: Who knows
Well you could use the same argument with every inch of audio.
Just as most haven't done proper testing to eliminate bias and placebo in either direction (positive or negative). Or all the ones trying to claim hearing big differences in minor tweaks despite having mediocre (at best) rooms that severely limit the performance of all systems, not just transparent high end ones.
I don't believe in cables but I'm open to changing my mind.
I'd like to see electrical or acoustic measurements. If it can't be measured, it is placebo.
I believe in pure silver. I buy them at reasonable prices.
..love the "readers digest" reference.. I use it often when I ask my my wife and daughter how their day was.. lol.... as for expected sound improvements when switching out audio cables, I think there is a point of diminishing returns once you've purchased reasonably good cables and connectors..... unless you can actually confirm the accuracy of your own hearing (which I have done with hearing tests), then confirmed proper speaker placement and room correction steps, then factor in bias and placebo, I think you might find the actual difference to be subtle at best and expensive for miniscule differences in frequencies you might not be able to hear by next year.... owned various maggies for over 25 yrs and currently also have martin logan.. have struggled with power/placement/cables/crossovers/preamps..etc... trying to "tweak" the sound just right...... if you can't hear it it's not worth it...
Such a wealth of tech knowledge. Love your channel 👍
Larger gauge, less resistance, higher current potential. Shorter length, less resistance. Simple stuff. However I REALLY doubt they're pushing anything with enough current to need anything even close to a 12 gauge speaker cable.
You can use Romex for speaker cables if you want .
It comes down to price/performance. How much better for how much money.
I recall a memorable dinner in about 1987 with Neil and Evelyn Sinclair and Mike Moffat at Bob Stupak's Vegas World, the most spacey casino on the strip.
Most people don't realize that Theta made tube electronics, long before they became famous for DACs as Theta Digital.
I loved Neil and Evelyn!
What I never understood was unless the speaker manufacturer used high-quality wire and crossover components, how can an expensive speaker wire truly improve the sound? For example, You run an audioquest cable from your amp to the speaker, but the speaker company, while still using an OFC wire, didn't use anything special.. Wouldn't you be limited by what the speaker company used? This is a serious question. I have an JBL Sythesis processor, and a couple Parasound amps. They are connected with Canare Star Quad XLRs which I am sure is overkill. I am still rocking my first 7-channel Klipsch RF7ii set. I cannot get ride of them because I saved so long to purchase them in 2012. when I didn't have money and I still enjoy their sound. They're sentimental. Anyhow, I ran 12ga mono price wiring through the walls to the speaker locations when I installed 4 Atmos speakers. I think it all sounds great. Am I really missing something? Again, I have no ideal how good the quality of speaker wiring is inside the Klipsch speaker (RF7ii, RC 64ii, RS62ii). One would have to imagine that has an impact too.
Can I please get some suggestions as to what might be within the classification of "a little higher end"? I might already be there - maybe not as I'm using Blue Jeans - Belden 5000UE 12 gauge speaker cables.
I have always used a High Quality "larger diameter" Audio cable. Until someone shows me something better I'll keep on using what I have. Gold plated Connections also help with transference. Deox is additionally helpful.
Should the money spent on wires be proportional the the money spent on the components? If you spent 5k on speakers and an RX would you spend 5k on wires or would 1k be adequate?
Sith Audio Cables
My whole system is Sith.
Got it for a pound of coffee beans from some guy in Nebraska named Randy.
Palpatine special dark side edition
Good old Romex works just great for me, always has😂❤
Yes! Solid core is the way to go!
Romex is the best 'cheap' audio speaker cable on planet Earth- Period!!
Matter of fact, that "starke" difference Paul described is exactly what I heard when switching from "Audiophile" stranded 10 gauge speaker cables to Romex grade house wire that was one big thick 12 awg strand per conductor. I did this simply as an experiment upon reading about solid core cables and learning about how electrons flow in conductors.
People do not realize that low end factually transmits much better when it has real mass to flow with/on. Stranded cables fail because low end cannot easily transmit per wire strand and another reason being high frequency phase anomalies resulting from coupling of magnetic fields within the proximity of the strands due to current as well as the skin effect of high frequencies always traveling to the outside of a copper conductor, where, like I mentioned, low end always takes up as much of the mass as it can get which is very little in stranded conductors- even though "technically" two conductors of the same given gauge size can "technically" carry equal amounts of overall current. That is a bit deceptive of a thing to say, really. That's why you can go and buy automotive stranded wire and it will often say how it has lower strand count but with thicker strands to accommodate for low voltage/ high current demands of automotive wiring.
Point being, "high end" means nothing if it involves stranded construction. Solid core or Litz of some variety is the way to go for good sound.
....And that includes our precious Romex! 🤘🏼👍🏻😊😀
Seeing those Audioquest boxes...they do a lot to make their copper cables look the part, even when they are not. Maybe that's how to 200X some copper cable price to sell cables for thousands of dollars 😂
I do have a friend who was realy nuts whit speaker cables. Whitout his knowledge i swapped his very pricy very audio cable to regular , cheap cable. And he did not notice for quite some time . Even then Just accidentally discevered that his pricy cables had been disconnected (but left in place) and the cheap cables where running his absolutely fine speakers and amplifiers.
Never was a fan of this cable misery.
And ever since that i'm verry confident , that all you need is a proper thick whatever cable. Any difference you "think" you find is simply a trick your mind plays on you.
That simple.
Just as a huge deal of audiofooooool stuff , its Just a trick of your mind.
Even if I believe better cables equal better sound, I just can’t spend too much on it. But instead, being an electrician, I do buy bulk cable, connectors, shrink etc .. And with critical listening, I like to customize my cables with whatever might elevated what is faded to my ears! Not so long ago I thought that immersive sound was achievable only with home theater or tube amp… tweaks, tweaks and more tweaks ! I’m still learning 🎶
That 12 gauge cable will work fine..... but you might want to go over to the dark side 😂
I still use my vintage "Monster Cable" for my vintage audio system.
Same...
Same here. Sounds and looks great. IMHO.
Bought my 14 gauge Monsters back in the 80's. They're still in use today in two of my AV systems. When something works well why change it?
@@adamant3844 I have my LCR and subs hooked up with ~$20 Medabridge (?) cables from Amazon and can really tell the difference in the LCRs. The rest of my speakers use Monster cable "lamp wire" and I'm more than satisfied. I don't need cables that cost more than my speakers. I'd rather put the money into birthday trips I take every couple years as a splurge - last year I spend one week in Jordan and 2 in Egypt. Next summer thinking about Italy :) I AM thinking of upgrading my turntable, though.
Speaker cables degrade with use, and need to be renewed at least every 5 years!
Cable will only make a difference when the guage is lesser than what is required or copper of cable is inferior. Both would result in higher resistance (ohm).
Except this, any quality difference in cables is not detected by human ear.
The hype about cables is only to sell their premium brands that give them undue huge profits.
Simply, you only need to make sure that the cable conductor is thick enough to carry the signal to speaker without much loss. There is no other function of speaker cables.
You're one of them
So is 12 gauge the best option for a 4ohm speaker or is a more, or less, choice better under a higher classification/ manufacture range such as Kimbre or AQ?
Kimber Kable for the win 🏆
Yes cables make difference however I learned many high end cables makes sound worse.
Is you have a worse set, high-end cables made it worser.
@@fkaptijn7111 yes . Also I have got useless worst replay to my comment.
I agree. I have found the exact same results, high end isn’t necessarily better.
You make a good point. Just because it costs more doesn't necessarily mean it will sound better. People who think it's just confirmation bias think the more expensive cable is always picked, and it's simply not true.
Sure. System synergy. Place a very revealing cable into a system with very revealing speakers and you won’t like it. Put warmer sounding cables in and you might obtain a decent balance
Cable definatly makes a difference, consider 20 cycles to 20000 cycles traveling down a wire, the cable was like a passive equalizer.
That's a great story! You guys (Paul and Stan) are obviously engineers, and expectation bias goes both ways: one might be the typical audiophile (if they exist) and believe anything may make a difference, or the typical engineer (measurements-oriented and thus caught up in the current state of science), and either mind set is going to make a person hear according to their beliefs (or what they call knowledge, same thing). I've personally done lots of blind tests, as well as fooled people with psychoacoustic tricks such as neon versus candle light (changing nothing else), and know full well that what Paul experienced can set one off on a search for truth. There is no substitute for first-hand experience.
Obviously engineers ? We can be anything we want if we are autodidact or self-taught and passionate? Can we ? Legally ?
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Not following? Paul is an engineer, Stan I don't know exactly, regardless, my point is expectation bias goes both ways (i.e. regardless of what one's expectation is). And?
@@LeonFleisherFan Paul explained it one or two times, wrote it one time clearly (linkedin), ranted against universities another one, and said otherwise many times. It's just how we interpret the definition. Stan is probably an engineer though. However, if the profession doesn't exist and the official ones have a slightly different name, it might be legal. Transparency is better than opacity, if we speak about cables and hi-fi
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Besides, in my experience, autodidactic people often exhibit greater scientific curiosity than academics, and the point I was trying to make is about scientific curiosity being a prerequisite for better understanding - regardless by whom.
@@LeonFleisherFan That's many times true. I agree: self-taught knowledge can be very useful, even if it's partial. Steve Jobs "built" great computers, but he wasn't an engineer and he didn't say that he was one (he went to some classes at university [typography]).. However, I can't say that I'm an airplane pilot or a car driver if I haven't an official license. However, I can say legally that I'm an UFO pilot.
The story you told with the speaker cable swapping ..... You fell for it, as many people.
The "normal" cable he was using had resistors hidden in it, when he swapped them over, that's why you heard a massive difference.
An ohmmeter doesn't lie.
I bought some Amazon cables and the plugs either fell off or the ends snapped off. It looked nice though.
is the reader's digest still going I don't think they have magazines anymore!! but maybe online I remember.
Reader's Digest
Is that your final answer?
@@renealarcon3970 well spotted robin 👻
I just got rid of my WireWorld Silver eclipse 8 Speaker cables. I grew to hate them after a couple of years. I have now found my end game cables, Fono Acustica Legato Cables? Very romantic cable, tons of detail and very musical. Half the money of the WireWorld, and double the sound quality.
Anything is better than "lamp cord". I'm personally a fan of Kimber Kable. But I've used Monster Cable in the past with ok results. Good video!
I totally agree...
I have heard a difference between speaker cables. I was even going to return my speakers before i got bi-wire cables. What about cable burn in time? what´s that about?
I've got nine channels with three different sets of cables to purchase, so I thought I could save some money and burn the cables in myself. Big mistake. The fact that I live in a small apartment, I couldn't get away from the sound of the burning-in process. It was as if someone was scratching the inside of my skull with tin foil. Neither to say the remaining two sets of cables got professionally burnt in 😂
The funny thing is, though, I never experienced that problem with my two previous sets of false economy cables (one of them being Amazon basics monoprice 14 awg)
Strange how I never experienced the same awful burn-in process sound with false economy cables.
@@Totalplonker Well I bought my bi-wire cables used, so must have been pre-burned in. Anyway the cables I use were a huge upgrade for my setup
Speaker cable burn-in? What is burning in? Is there supposed to be some molecular change in the wire that results in a sonic difference? That's not going to happen. Burn-in is done with audio components under the belief that electrical component characteristics change with age and, new components are not operating at peak performance. I would suggest that this was truer in the tube-world than the semiconductor world, but ok - maybe. With that said, I can't see how any change would take place in wire. Of course, there are people that swear by speaker cable stands to raise the wire off of the ground a couple of inches - claiming that they make a significant difference. I can't how that would be the case either.
@rangerrecon there is a measurable difference in capacitance with cable risers on carpeting.
@@mitchtaylor6512 Well I guess I need to research that as it makes no sense (speaking as an electrical engineer). If carpet was a suitable dielectric (which it isn't) between the two speaker wires (which are also insulated), then perhaps some level of capacitance between the two conductors would be achieve that would affect the reactive load of the speaker. But in the real-world, I'm just not seeing it.
Short story is back a few years ago me and my friend started building our cable. He had a reference level system and we started taking cables apart and AQ was atrocious! The sound was dark and mild compared to lot of other we had. Top of the line AQ vs Wywires - no comparison! AQ has proven to be the worst sounding cables we had. We started building ours out of Mogami and for the money, they were fantastic! The interconnect we ended up using was Mogami i forgot the designation I have some on my main rig. Those with some WBT connects were seriously the ones to beat! We could beat them but only going 5-6x the cost of the Mogami! True story! I will never buy AQ cable 🚡 never! I'll run lamp cord before I do. But I'm pulling the cords apart and braiding them and covering in helibraid! They even bested my $240,00 Transparent cables! I sold every one I had after that..
For many years I thought a cable was a cable. I would have believed that higher power would have benefited from thicker wire, but I wasn't convinced that the quality of materials and construction would make any difference. Then I ran into Pine Tree Audio. It's so affordable and received such good reviews, I figured it was worth a gamble. The first time I hooked up the cables was the first time I'd ever heard a piano that sounded like a real piano - from the full gutsiness to the softest touch the instrument is capable of. I swapped out all my cables and never looked back. I'm sure there are better cables out there, but if you're on a budget, I assure you a company like Pine Tree will make a huge difference.
AudioQuest have speaker cables at $30K for a pair . (gulp) Some at $600 for a pair. Where is the point of diminishing return?
The gauge is is relative to distance and RMS power and not just the speaker Ohms?
The point of diminishing returns is farther back, at 79 strand, at $50.
"RONAN" is also featured in America's Most Wanted in the Post Office
Reader’s Digest is what you used to leave in the bathroom.
I say depends on equipment.. I had standard Amazon speaker cable.. Switch over to blue Jean Cables.. Was I jumping out my seat.. Like damm you here the difference.. No but you did here a difference that's worth the upgrade..
Pine Tree Audio makes great cables at a decent price
Speaker and others too
I'm still a cable agnostic, thank you for being reasonable. I'm quite happy with Blue Jeans Cable "10 white" for speakers. The discussion of speaker cable on their website is quite informative.
What is a cable? Speaker wire? Or RCA cables. ?
Overall. Audioquest consistently sound more like real instruments rather than good stereo. Shame they're so expensive.
lx96 is the best value high end speaker cable. Save the money on the more expensive ones. And put Oyaide plugs on like GYT or SRBN. Then you typically only pay about 1/3 - 1/5 than what is normal. Either that or get Dyrholm, or then Cardas or Audioquest.
Try this experiment..... Take a good ofc 14 or 12 guage speaker cable and seperate the two condictors. Make sure they have at least 1 foot apart . Listen , then bring then gradually bring them closer by 3 inches at a time ....then twist them .listen to the results.
Transparent speaker cable cables do well. 5 - Generation do good. Music Wave speaker cables