Mormon Lawyers RESPOND!
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- A week after we sent a letter to every Mormon Bishop and Branch President in the UK, the Europe North Area Presidency ALSO sent a letter to every Bishop and Branch President...
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The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video, the church's lawyer and area presidency involved.
#LDS #safeguarding #mormon
I worked as a Correctional Officer in Utah. I can’t tell you how many of the sex offenders in the prison had sexually assaulted/rapped youth while serving as a stake president, Bishop or youth leader. This has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen. We should do EVERYTHING in our control to safe guard children and teenagers from being sexually assaulted. Background checks should be required of anyone working with youth in the church. Prioritize the children not the sex offenders or the churches reputation, anything less is abhorrent. I’m aware there are many good men and women who serve in the church who would never harm a child but background checks are a no brainer. And NO ONE that has any history of sexual abuse should EVER be allowed to work with the youth. Pedophiles do NOT rehabilitate, look it up.
So if your cousin is convicted of pedophilia, is it abhorrent to protect the reputation of your family? What about the parents of your cousin convicted of pedophilia?
In my Ward, a man was convicted of child sexual abuse. He was excommunicated and eventually rebaptized. When I was in the Bishopric we checked his record and there was NO ANNOTATION on his record at all. The Stake President also checked it and NOTHIING. So much for the ‘annotation system’.
Nepotism could be part of this problem.
a good friend's husband molested his own daughter, he was a stake high councilman. From what I remember nothing went on his church record and I believe no church action was done like excommunication or even disfellowship. My friend was livid about the whole thing and of course divorced him, but her and the kids have been in therapy for years and the youngest went through cutting himself. Her ward and stake leaders let the whole family down.
Something something "their sins shall be remembered by the church no more" something something....
All bullsh*t to protect predators.
Any idea what the exact conviction was? There are different types of child sexual abuse and they are treated differently by the church (and societies). Some annotations will never drop off of church records.
An extended family member molested literally about half of the families nieces. NOT a small family either. His mother actually pushed towards sending this man on a mission afterwards. Not sure what happened in the background, but he didn’t end going. I’m sure he had something on his church records, and that’s why it so important the church keeps these records updated. To protect other members.
Those who delay or block investigation into active abuse are guilty, if not in legal terms, certainly in moral terms, as accessories to the crime.
21st Century Saints - there are no big enough words for how amazing you are for doing this work. It is a huge burden to carry, stay safe yourselves.
I'm so glad that there is, at least, this group working on the problem.
The fact that this is being done by active, believing members makes me feel an optimism that I had largely abandoned in relation to this issue.
Amen stay safe...
I am so out of organized religion but have Love God love yourself love one another.,..
I love them too. Richmond VA
It is comforting to know that you are not using the copyrighted "Jesus in a Bell Jar" symbol in your mailings.
In Australia the church requires all members the hold a "Blue card" ( working with children police check) before they are called to work with children in any way. So that the church complies with the Law of the land.
Been happening for over 10 years. Not that big a deal, to make it happen.
@Seek Truth Yes Bishops in Australia would need to hold a "blue card " as they work with the youth
I'd have to check but believe blue cards are needed for anyone working with children under 18
Agreed. From australia ua-cam.com/users/liveQ9sU5xov3KI?si=OZ6m84gKgLxT_ElJ
Thank you so much for doing this. I know so many people who don’t attend church because their abuser is welcomed back to the ward.
If one professional had done this in the 90s, I might have a different backstory. And not even asked for a background check, but ACTUALLY REPORTED claims to the police or even social services. The abuser will always have a place at church, and that is why so many end up leaving. If my abuser is welcomed and revered and seen as a 'good family man' when I am seen as a lazy learner or having a faith crisis. You are correct, when I have to consider why my physical safety was less important that one person's ability to give a few hundred dollars a week to people in Utah, my faith is in crisis.
It’s disgusting that their main concern is covering their backsides and putting you all in your place. The territorial power trip is so unbecoming. The bottom line is that they just don’t care. If they did care they wouldn’t wait until there’s legislation. They’d be out there proactively implementing best practices as quickly as possible.
I don't think it is territorial per se. I would like to see a neutral party that has experience in the law surrounding these issues present the arguments of both sides. Whether we like it or not, the US is the most litigious society in the world. The law is not as black and white as people think it is. These discussions can be useful if they are balanced out with opposing views. Unfortunately, these all appear to be current and/or former members who don't like the church. Some appear to try and hide it while others don't hide it that well.
Bleakley: “the Area President is a Sales Manager.” True words! 👍🏼😊
I support 21st Century Saints and their safeguarding efforts and the Britvengers. Great discussion!
You 21st century saints are a marvellous work and a wonder!
It's not wrong for you to do the right thing, so keep going, the more the leaders resist doing what they should do the more they will be faced with what they're trying to avoid!
Hopefully they will eventually start to work with you instead of against you.
I was always taught the bishop was the bishop for an area and was the bishop for all people living in that area, regardless if they are members or not. They are everyone's bishop.
I was taught the same!!
This is the doctrine...this is what is trained in the United States anyway.
Then there is a rotation of the Bishop's in an area that help the transient people
lol! Loved your opening words., Nemo.
"21st Century ____" 🤦😡 So immature for the church leaders to negate "Saints" in their name.
Great live guys!
Right! Do you think they would've done the same thing if they were called the 21st Century Mormons?
Jane & Sara & the Britvengers 👏👏👏👏👏👏 . Glad to see through the bullying & intimidation to try to silence you. These days angels with flaming swords have been replaced by lawyers with flaming pens (well keyboards). Luckily its 200 years later & smart, uppity female members are seeing through it.
thank you for the work you do in the protection of those who are vulnerable where the “leaders” are sorely lacking.
your heartfelt service does not go unnoticed..
As always MO Gaslighting !!! I can't thank you enough for fighting for what's RIGHT ! PLEASE never stop !!!!!
Sickening. It makes me glad I took my name off the books and ended my affiliation with the church. Seriously vile.
Canadian lawyer must be very comfortable in Canada because the church is taking steps to have people checked before serving with children in Canada. They even have a 30 minute video training to do.😡 maybe it’s because the Canadian government requires checks no matter what?
The dropping of 'Saints' is hilarious. When Nemo said to call the church by Latter-Day or in short LD, which should stand for Labor & Delivery considering mormonisms earthly role for women and doctrine regarding eternal increase.
This letter is so unprofessional. The lawyer allowed his personal opinions and annoyance at so-called apostates, that he didn’t even address you at all. A few sentences could have said, “please stop, we’re not interested.” But it is sad that educated men have a blind spot so big that the protection and safety of their future members and children in the church is at the bottom of the list of importance, especially when Jesus said to protect the children, the most vulnerable. But instead, they throw a hissy fit that they aren’t worshipped like gods, and as adults, they can’t take any criticism or advice that just asks them to look at what it happening. Keep up the good work!
When one is the Lord’s lawyer you’re exempt from professionalism.🥴
When you do an unprofessional thing like send letters to bishops all over the place you probably are going to get a response that is unprofessional.
You guys are an awesome team !! Thanks for your tenacity, I can hardly wait to see what's next. Keep up the good work.
I just love it. Church needs to be held accountable.
Another option to doing the DBS check on yourself is to go to your bishop and have them do it. Tell them you won't work with children anymore until it's done and you're shown proof. This way you protect both you and the bishop. Then hold that line. And share what you're doing with those you volunteer with.
Great idea!
Very insightful suggestion. Thank you.
You are all priceless - Thank you so much for your diligence!
Our pleasure!
28:09 Of course they don't speak for the church! As women, they wouldn't be allowed to... 🤦♂️
If they have to run a check than the calling wouldn’t appear to be inspired by god.
😅 good point
If the LDS Church in Britain wishes to remain anonymous, it should refrain from sending out teenage salespeople on its behalf.
Mormon church: "How dare you hold us accountable for providing a safe haven for ped*philes. Obviously you must not be serious about helping children be safe."
Watching with eager anticipation….
Being a survivor of addiction when all are not god saved me Jesus , mission sister saved me
The letter from lawyer is appalling, that when asked about safeguarding, the first response is how did you get letters to bishops.
I don't get how they are unwilling to set up national safeguarding supports. My church, and all denominations I am aware of in the UK, have spent over 20 years building up good systems of safeguarding. And that is a mindset change away from the naivety of 'nice church oeople'. The structure still needs to be reaffirmed in local congregations, and the training updated every 5 yrs. It is administratively complicated. Yes, but vitally important.
If any one asked any church leader in these denominations they could all point to regional staff experts, written policies, training and DBS outlines.
LDS and JW lack of even engaging with the basic preventative actions is horrifying.
It seems possible to me that the LDS hierarchy has become an inverse morality filtering mechanism.
If this is the case, the entire church structure is poisoned, and should be abandoned as counter to its stated aims.
This is a very difficult problem to come to terms with for any long-time Mormon, but I don't see any way around it.
Additionally the church shows little concerns for my privacy it seems to me.
"Silence your phones...Hush your babies"......too freaking hilarious!
You guys have so brilliantly moved beyond the rhetoric...amazing! The rubber hits the road with you guys...the church better step up!
Yeah right. If you can't see the bitter bias bleed right through 90% of NEMO's comments and smugness I feel sorry for you.
@@phillipcook3430 that comment was such a condescendingly bitter and typical Mormon jab. My criticism is not of the membership, but of the corrupt leadership at the top. Your person insults tell me that you’d rather not address the issues being raised. Save your pity.
And a personal story. I'm aware of a person that was in my home ward back in the 1990's that was a sex abuser. They quietly disappered from their wife and family, they were quietly removed from the ward and placed in another ward in the same stake in a neighboring town and their name was altered. I remember being shocked seeing them in this other ward and they were going by a different name. It was clear what had happened without any public disclosure. But there was no mistaking it was the same person.
But, but, but they have the gift of discernment! Just like when they let Ted Bundy join the church in the United States.
22 minutes. Yet members like me who ask to be contacted get ignored and threatened with excommunication.
You all are so brilliant!! Thank you so much! I've already resigned my membership over this issue, but I so hope members will take your suggestions at the end.
The only entity that needs to “address” the privacy of bishops is the church, for putting all that info online. You’ve done nothing wrong by politely using the info they’ve made available.
THIS ENTIRE SHOW WAS WORTH IT FOR JANE'S QUOTE "THESE ARE NOT DATA, THEY'RE PEOPLE"
Agreed!
Thank you for calling out leaders for not protecting children. I live in UT, so it doesn't surprise me that "the church" is above the law and will not take responsibility for anything. Obviously, they would never call a member that would hurt children because all the priesthood leaders have the power of discernment. Only the elderly are still clinging to "the church". Many like myself have not attended for years and have asked for no contact, yet the church contacts active family members to get my address when I have moved. The US and each state has a sex offender registry.
I'm listening to this video for second time. Still can't believe the arrogance of church attorneys. Oh wait yes I can was a member for 27 years...know the climate
"Unsolicited contact" comment (at/around 21:00) from Sara was brilliant! Evidently, that only goes one way.
If ATC & internal & sincere reform efforts are so rebuffed, sounds like its time to get messages to MPs & start a political campaign to close loopholes in the safeguarding laws. I hope the intimidation letter backfires spectacularly. There is absolutely no reason to exempt religious organizations. Quite the contrary, given the prevalence of grooming & abuse by so many religious leaders & members, especially in high control patriarchal religions, they should have extra requirements. FFRF's monthly list of "black collar" crime (all denominations, publicly available info) in the US is horrifying, must be similar elsewhere.
To think how many times this lawyer garbage has scared and intimidated and discouraged good people from continuing their efforts. This right here is a model way to handle it. Right out in the open. Sunshine disinfects. Team work right here + internet. Controlling and powerful people don't have as much power and control as they used to - thank goodness!
Hi you wonderful humans. Love you
Thank you for your efforts! Once again the church proves that its primary concern is maintaining its "good name" and reputation, and its silenced victims are nothing more than collateral damage.
Julian "Won't shave until safeguarding measures adopted"
Perhaps time to practice the electric guitar then, and in a few years join a ZZ TOP cover band! 😊😊(hope it's not going to be needed).
I reckon that lawyers letter will help a few more to the exit, with such a ridiculous response. Thank goodness for the current church members and former members who take 'Choose The Right' seriously.
Speaking of safeguarding, I noticed today that the church handbook of instructions is quite inconsistent between English and other languages in section discussing conducting worthiness interviews with youth. At the very least the church should say the same thing in all translations.
Which other languages did you check?
When I were called as a Sunday School Teacher I were expecting to be asked have I abused anyone in my past, and ask someone who knows my history to confirm whether I have or haven’t abused anyone.
It could be said I’m a stranger to so many parents, parents have put their children in my custody without knowing anything about my history.
I also don’t find having two adults for one to protect the youth from the other adult significant enough. I am trained in martial arts and self defence, if I abused martial arts and the other adult has no training I could of defended myself against the other adult and still abuse the children. I would find it useful if there was some alarm in each classroom to pull to call for reinforcement and alert leaders abuse is occurring.
My Bishop was aware I am severely epileptic but didn’t ask me about my seizures, my seizures are extremely violent and if children reacted to a seizure irresponsibly they would get hurt by my convulsions. I had to say “There must always be someone with me to protect the teenagers from my seizures, and sometimes it won’t be safe for me to teach to prevent anyone being harmed.”
Looking forward to 21st Century saints excommunication on Mormon stories 😉😉
I've been out of the church for two decades and I’ve been blown away how legalistic the church went on this issue (since the hotline controversy.)
My active sister is rapidly losing her testimony over this. An active brother's faith is being challenged over the recent cavalier lies.
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Luke 11:52
You are making a difference! You are amazing and the lord will guide you! Thank you
As always, many thanks for what you are doing!!!
Good point Jane. It's not rocket science! It would be so easy to find members as well as Bishops, etc. All you'd have to do is attend one Sunday and ask for a Church roster. Also they contact investigators and pass on their information. Disfellowshiped and excomunications are sounded from the pulpit..
Have you responded to the Lawyer's letter?
You knew I was a snake
Re Postal issues. When I worked for a national utility company we had fun with property not registered with post office. We are familiar these days with putting postcode into online forms and asked to pick address from list. We were using that system earlier as a way of matching supply references to addresses. Churches, scout huts and others were always fun to locate as manually added and so search needed to consider all possible typos, space before name etc!
Meanwhile I have seen letters to churches put through gap under door, but then not a gated area as LDS locations are as far as I have seen.
I know so many wonderful, kind, caring members, but I don't know a single one that is wonderful, kind, or caring BECAUSE of the church. Often they are all those things despite the church
Yes, despite the church which is really just a corporation.
Are you saying that you don't know a single member that is MORE wonderful, kind, or caring BECAUSE of the church? Some might disagree with you but it also depends on what your definition of wonderful, kind, and caring means.
@@phillipcook3430 My comment stands as it is. I grew up in the church. It was just a distraction. The family however, was beautiful.
Found the Bible, and the real Jesus after l left . That took some serious research to unravel the disinformation.
@@phillipcook3430 I didn't say that. I said I don't know one person who is only moral and kind because of the church, a person who otherwise wouldn't be those things.
Just love you. Thank You so much. You guys are great and hilarious
Thanks so much
Thanks!
Great work on the channel very in depth
1) There actually ARE serious privacy concerns WITHIN the LDS org. Active members can literally look up every member in their ward (at least here in the US you can) and see EVERY MEMBER plus contact info, age, etc. Needless to say there IS no privacy with this info within the wards.
Now imagine being a child, baptized into this org. YOU didn't say they could share your info. You turn 18. Does the Church stop sharing it? No. You move, it follows you. You wish to leave the org un-noticed. Well you can't: your file is connected to your parents file still and they can see your membership status on their own private account... cause YOU are listed as a member there along with your sealed status. This is a zero sum game for those kids. They can't quietly leave and quit privately. Their membership status is apparently EVERYONEs business. These are full grown adults who never gave permission to SHARE their info. Heck there are those that became members as adults that didn't tick a box that said 'please share my info'... nope. It should be completely illegal.
2) Blow hard they will, apparently. They sound like they are talking down to stupid people with no identity of their own, who they have the right micromanage and intimidate. Well, heads up: attnys can make a 'request' of you, but their attempts to pretend to construe your actions as though feigning to represent the org itself are absolute BS. They know this, it's an intimidation tactic.
3) is taking the active position avoiding accountability by utilizing an ignorance loophole. (...and 'multiple other protections". That's super vague. Like wut exactly, cause those examples were utter BS and won't do a thing.) Remember NO legal obligation (desire, attempts, or training) needed for DBS or barred list stuff. They DON'T WANT to know, cause they don't want liability. Gotta protect that tithing money.) Just 'we feel fine doing what we always do and asking the potential perps if they themselves are cool.
4) Attorney ask for your data as to why he is wrong in thinking that checking DBS wouldn't help an ounce. He's passing responsibility onto you like a Plaintiff. How CARING of the kiddos. Where is HIS data that doing things like usual works at ALL?
5) Deal with matters locally cause WE don't want to be liable up here. You can't speak for us, heck WE don't speak for us... case that's how we avoid liability... we be smart cookies.
The LDS Org, unfortunately, does a bang up job of discrediting itself. But like any narc, it can't handle accountability so it passes ALL the blame for any thing out of whack onto someone else so THEY can clean it up. Unless they can be painted only as pure hearted heroes that grants only good press, they aren't interested. Just more members please.
They simply can't tolerate open criticism, let alone by professionals. They are ABOVE criticism, you see? The members that toe the line know this and would NEVER question them, because they can't be wrong if THEY say they themselves are not wrong, and it can't be insufficient if they themselves claim it is. THEY established the procedures, so of COURSE those procedures are GOOD, Jane... sheesh! /s
Clearly they don't want to COLLABERATE, they want to dominate and only have the warm fuzzies, not the fix-its. You can't fix what is perfect after all.
This email reply is a very 'precipitous' step by THEM, by the way, completely repelling. Why WOULD anyone want to work collaboratively with a narcissistic organization which is too afraid to improve anything because it their fragile minds it highlights their failings. HOW does one LEARN, GROW and do BETTER in any other way. They really are doomed.
Love Love Love y'all
Are these lawyers American? They seem to have such a litigious manner.
1:26:23 They're the "victim." The church is ALWAYS the victim. They didn't want to work with you anyways. They just saw an opportunity to twist the situation to make you the bad guys.
Two comments: One, the LDS church is a top-down organization. If an individual comes to them with a problem, they will pray about it rather than ask the individual or anyone else with knowledge + experience related to the proble . Occasionally you get a leader who both listens and prays, but this isn't the rule. Two, the out-the-gate defensiveness of church leaders derives, I suspect, from lack of faith. There are Mormons of spiritual + intellectual stature (which go together), but they're quieted or drummed out of the church or, more often, they are women, who in Mormonism are to be seen and not heard, other than a few token sycophants. Notice how Jane has to flatter and humor to get herself heard and to keep in good standing. She is charming, though, and clearly knows how to get along. I wish you all well.
why use a DBS check? Sounds to me that would be was more reliable that using the Power Of Discernment ™
It sounds like Kirton McCpnkie doesn't require an IQ test as a condition of employment for their employees.
Not forgetting to contact the Branch Presidents.
We did also contact branch presidents, don’t worry!
DBS is limited to those previously convicted, yes. Safeguarding is massively more than DBS, but this is a basic first step. If you can't rule out the convicted how can we trust them to do the extra. Nemo comments that they say about checking the 'barred list and so = DBS. I heard it differently, that the LDS have their own internal barred list they should check against. But the JW list may have influenced my hearing
Yay for TRUTH
What a great response from the true church
They are so expert at guarding the brand
I’m always interested in what lies behind an over-reliance on lawyers. I’m not talking about a genuine need for them when a wrong needs addressing. It’s when there is no wrong I get concerned. In the case of the letters to the bishops I can see nothing but an altruistic desire to see children protected from harm. So why does the church use so many lawyers? Out of fear. Many of the powers that be are consciously or unconsciously fearful. They must feel beleaguered and threatened and lacking in the mental or emotional wherewithal to do the job they claim to do. I can think of no other reasons. Exactly what do they fear from theses essentially good people who desire to see the LDS Church do a better job.
Could the britvengers also lobby parliament to make it mandatory in the uk as in Canada and Australia. It seems our government also doesn't give a monkeys about children's safety
When you don't know what to do just think `What Would Jesus Sue'?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You might want to hire yourself a lawyer NEMO. You might be stepping in to some possible litigation platforming these individuals that don't appear to understand the law surrounding child abuse, clergy privilege, and other complicated defamation laws.
Just remember, you don't have UA-cam watching your possible legal violations since they are still considered a platform under section 230. The more views you get, the more you risk getting a cease and desist or charges.
Sara and Jane are amazing Women, and it angers me when Jane says that women have to use Soft voices to be heard- the church is so sexist. As an inactive member, its only looking back that i see how mis-treated women really are. Behind every man is an even greater woman- so why don’t we let these amazing women have more control instead of these idiotic controlling men?!
On the issue of safeguarding, it amazes me that the church is playing roulette with childrens safety. Does the church really want to allow itself to be the next catholic church?
The council for stealing your money
There is an old Northern Soul song by The Snake by singer Al Wilson. It's worth listening to though.
They want to "bring all until Christ"? Which Christ are they talking about? The rich and powerful one, who's overarching concern is his own good name - and does not associate with those who are looked down on by religious authorities? That one?? The briefest reading of the Synoptic Gospels will remind anyone who the real Jesus is. How his overarching concern was compassion, protecting/valuing/caring for the less powerful including children, being with the marginalized, not looking the other way when religious/political powers abused and neglected the vulnerable, etc. That's the real Christ. That's the Jesus who inspires. That's the one church members really want to follow.
Nemo, I am an American lawyer and very familiar with litigation. I was very impressed with Jane E. Christie's positive constructive attitude and position. Ms. Christie is the type of person too be involved in some meaningful change and transformation.
On the other hand, Julian came across as angry and looking for a fight. He appears to discount Jane's more positive experience.
Julian is mistaken, the letters are not a formal document, perhaps, good faith negations as a prelude to potential litigation. What does Julian want from your dialogue from the church? Constructive dialogue like Jane was involved or litigation.
Any corporation requires lawyers . Truthfully, if it was Jane it would not have been necessary to call in lawyers, perhaps, with Julian there is a need for lawyers.
Jane is a much more constructive individual and a positive leader. She is trying to resolve and remedy certain issues. Those of you that wish to be confrontational you will run into a brick wall.
The LDS Church has respectability in the United Kingdom. The church has designed spokesperson for the church. You're varying organizations are independent entities which can be appropriate. Every organization has disclaimers. Just include independent disclaimers.
Finally, I am not trying to be antagonist but just making statements in the way of commentary. It sounds like some of the local leadership became nervous and mentioned those issues to church lawyers who were obligated to raise the issues on behalf of their clients which de facto are some of the United Kingdom bishops.
At what point do we involve national press?
Suffer the little children to come unto me
Legal Feces??! 😮😮😮😮 Okay thank you Love mastery of language
Just want to say, I’m trying hard to push for similar changes here in Canada and my brother sent me this. The lawyer here mate a note about the annotation system the church uses. But those annotations can be removed. A church leader who molested a child could later have that annotation removed by his church leaders because of his “repentance” so that he then again would be allowed to work with children again. And this actually does happen.
If there is an organization like you guys here in canada can you point me towards them?
That whole corporation can suck it!
Sweetie be happy
Why in the world is there such opposition to DBS checks?
Fear of outside "meddling"
It is an admission that discernment was not enough to keep kids safe
It doesn't matter I am single god about service no married kid s life style needs to be proven
Really long but maybe worth reading
“you can’t see the Forrest because of the trees” I don’t criticize the members so much , because this is a human condition given the right circumstances we all can fall victim to.
But it is worth mentioning that we all can benefit immensely by stepping back from time to time to get the bigger picture.
I don’t know if it is deliberate or not but the church pressures members by coercion to be totally immersed into the church by the insane amount of time they expect from good members, with callings, firesides , cleaning the church and even to help their canning of food for their needy.
The more you do for this church the more they expect.
Learn to say no, more often and this will give you the opportunity to have more free time to step back and see what you really want out of this church and life in general.
Perhaps you might want to take off a Sunday to take the kids to the zoo, or skip a fireside and take the family to a movie, or just say no, I want to go to an opera instead of throwing food into a can to be steamed. Perhaps the opera will produce more peace in your spirit than that awful terrible hammering noise in the canning factory.
Just step back, you can always make an excuse later and trust me nothing will be lost, the members and leaders will praise you and pat you on the back as if you are the prodigal son returning from a life of debauchery .
Trust me the church needs its members but many members really don’t need this church as it currently exists. There is a life outside of total commitment to the church, a partial commitment is really ok. Trust me it really is.
I keep thinking Jane is Sarah Milligan (I watch too many panel shows on UA-cam.)
Can you just take out a class action lawsuit against the church
But.... the Brethren don't have to ask about qualifications for callings because they've already received divine revelation from Heavenly Father that the candidate is perfect.
There are so many in church in USA
Why would concern of members matter when the leaders are receiving regular revelations and inspiration, they know what’s best. Seriously I just keep my distance I care very deeply about the younger kids and youth but could care less otherwise.
Since when is Church policy, or any policy, more important the lives and mental health of church members or people in general.
One year in sober reading preying be obedient believe
My father was in church leadership. He ws an incestuious pedophile and child molester plus this went on for decades. After decades of brushing off victims when scores of victims and parents of victims went to bishops and stake presidents, he was finally called out. He denied to his church leaders (stake president and SIL bishop) his pedophelia and how he perpetratd against scores of children who are now mostly adults. Just as he did with his wife when she cried for church help, he made all his victims out s liars. His last stake president caught him in lies and Xed him. They quietly did this too!! One short year later without any apology or anything to his victims, he was re-baptized. The day they re-baptized him they "restored his blessings" and he was put back as a high priest. Then, they set him apart as a PRIMARY teacher!!
The comment about who you associate with: my experience is that the ex mormon community has many people whose moral compass i much more sensitive and driven by their own personal ethics than those whose abdicate their moral authority to religious leaders
Probably actually driven more by political identity than a personal moral compass. I bet 80% of commentors in here vote Democrat. Go Harris/Walz.