This is indeed very, very interesting and You are a great master of the art, Sir! I never before thought about using some other anchor point than my earlobe.
Thanks Murat, your videos are massively helpful. Had my first go at sideways twist Khatra outdoors at the club today & it all went surprisingly well, thanks to you & Armin Hirmer & Justin Ma. We'll have a few people shooting thumb draw soon lol 😁
I Like your Instruction Style I look forward to each and every Video Because you not only explain, You bring the Instruction, (to life), into reality. Thank you for your Teaching. I hope to get, my first, Turkish Re-curve That will be my first bow ever in the future. I Love Everything about The Turkish Recurve Bow over all the other's from all over the East. I also Hope to Learn how to Create The real Turkish Re-curve's starting in the Summer next year. Again Thank you for your time Teaching the World about this Great Sport. Bob J Jackson, Papillion, Nebraska.
Wow! Love this form of archery. Going to incorporate this level of flexibility into my training. Thanks for posting this. Found myself watching the lead hand as well, great khatra!!
Excellent video as usual Murat A tutoring video about khatra would be greatly received I am struggling with this and most explaintion do not help or I am unable to follow correctly Again a superb post
@@abdulkabza Thank you for your reply Murat Both hatra videos have been very informative and explains very well the importance of the left-hand when using thumb release. A "fools guide" or step by step instruction of left upper limb biomechanics would be of great as I can see the movement of the bow but am unsure how to do this and at what exact point of thumb release to start.
@@glennc1961 It is directly related to hoe the grip is grasped. In old treatises there are 3, 4 and sometimes 5 gripping techniques have been mentioned but unfortunately, they are named but rarely described. I did a biomechanical study with academics in sports sciences and evaluated two of these grip-techniques together with the related hatra styles. So, hatra is a natural outcome of how you grasp and push/torque the bowgrip.
This is where I beleive I may go wrong. I come from shooting western style grip and draw with english longbow, but recently have swapped to thumb draw with turkish thumb ring. I am just about getting used to using a thumb ring and am going to lengthen my draw to my earlobe today at the range. But with western style grip you hold very loose with Index finger, do you use firm grip with thumb draw archery? Unfortunately no one shoots this way that I know so struggle to get the right form when shooting Any tips would be greatly receives
@@glennc1961 the thumb and index fingers of the bowhand shud be loose while the rest hold the grip firnly. These three fingers either give a torque to the grip or push it forward so that the bow turns outwards on is vertical axis or tilts forward during release
I doubt it. Thumb release was used by the warriors of the professional armies of East. They practiced quite well, with persistancy and dedication. Even I can handle 80+pound bows easily at my age, which I believe was too old for ancient times to be an active and functional warrior. So, they might've been quite in control of 100+ pound bows, even from different anchor points.
So with Memluke, ottoman and Turkish archery, the thumb ring touches the earlobe right. Because I would love to do a video on this. I just got done shooting yesterday with the Anchor point the thumb ring on the earlobe and the tip of the arrow touching my hand. And I literally shot a 8 inch group at 40 meters after watching this and trying it.
Hocam merhaba. Ben yay seti aldım ve kendimce atışlar yapıyorum. Fakat şöyle bir sorun var. hedefe nişan aldığımda ok her seferinde hedefin sağına gidiyor. Ben de bu yüzden hedefe değilde hedefin sol tarafına atıyorum ancak öyle vurabiliyorum. Bunun sebebi nedir? Teşekkürler
I would like to buy a Turkish bow, very flexible and powerful, like yours and would be grateful if you could share some links of where to buy and specification, I am based in the UK. Thank you.
Ypu may choose from the products of two good bowyers Tuncay Keskin and Onur Şimşek. şimşek bows are all-resin while Keskin makes both laminated and all-resin models. Some of their models are tested and have been in use in our group Tirendaz. Test videos are available in this channel. They both ship to UK. Regards.
Atış yaptığımda yayın kirişi kabzayı tutan koluma çarpıyor bunu düzeltmek için kabzayı belli bir açıyla tuttuğumda ise isabetli atış yapamıyorum buna ne tür bir çözüm önerirsiniz
Kabza tutuşunuz, kabza tarafındaki omzunuzun pozisyonu (aşağıda olmalı) ya da şast elinizin bırakış sırasında yüzünüzden çok uzaklaşmasıyla ilgili olabilir. Atışınızı profilde ve sağ omuz arkasından videoya kaydedin ve bu söylediğim kısımlarda hata yapıp yapmadığınıza bakın.
hi at 1:39 i get a little confused , the caption refers to mughals being turkish military elite . but i thought you said mamluk (sp) in the audio . is there mughal refrences in the treaties? thks, liked the video, as i always do . not quibbling just confused ,since there is some over lap between mamluk(sp) warrior caste,( which served so long.) and the mughal empire which is a blending of mongol n turkic cultures with indian subconntinent . cheers
There are referrals to both Mamluk and Mughals in the video. Mughals had ethnic relations with Turks and Mongols but the Turkish cultural influence should be considered as being dominant as can be seen clearly in Baburnamah, the memories of Babur Shah himself. He mentions sending a falcon to invaders as a diplomatic way of threating, and calls it a Turkish custom ("as it has always been done when Turkish land was invaded by others"). Another very good proof is that the text is written in Chaghatay dialect of Turkish, also known as "Eastern Turkish". Although there are no archery treatises from Mamluks, at least not to my best knowledge, Baburnamah reveals some technical aspects of bowhooting, like that of a lower anchor. And that was the point that I referred to in the video.
You flip the bow sideways and forward after release, does this allow you to use a wider variety of arrows spine-wise? To be more concrete: can you shoot arrows which wouled be too stiff for the bow with "normal" release and would fly to the left or right depending on which side of the bow you are resting the arrow? Or can you even ignore arrow spine (as long as it is not too weak and breaks) and shoot very stiff arrows?
Spine issue is not completely illegible w thumb release but you can handle a very wide spectrum of shafts with this lateral twist of the bow. The classical Turkish hatra, which is the forward tilting of the bow,does effect the dynamic spine as well,but not as much as the twist.
Asıl çapa aslında sırttaki kas ve kemiklerin belli bir konfigürasyonda yerleşmesi. Mandalın yüze yapışması şart değil, ama kesinlikle yakın olmalı. Uzaktan çekişe "açık kestirme" denirdi ve istenmeyen bir şey olduğu açıkça yazılmıştır.
For me pulling to the earlobe is 32". Or very close to it. But it's hard to find a Turkish bow that pulls that far. They are mostly 28" or 29" unfortunately. Why is that?
Simply because everybody thinks that all Ottoman bows were short. They weren't. According to Dr. Yücel the lengths of the bows in Topkapı Palace Museum vary 88 to 135 cm. For archers who drew very long there were Crimean Tatar bows which shud be considered among the bows of the empire. They have not been used by Tatars only but manufactured in Istanbul and perhaps used in Central Asia too.
Hungarians call us Osman too. I thibk Pols as well. It is about the cultural exchange and common past. Other than that, Osman spelled differently in Arabic and the "s" is a sound somewhere between s and t.
Thank you, very interesting and well explained
Hi armin ,im subsribed your youtube chanel ,can you makes a vidio how to hold horsebow on your way?
Great educational video. You are one of the few who teach us about the techniques. Thanks. Keep it up.
This is indeed very, very interesting and You are a great master of the art, Sir! I never before thought about using some other anchor point than my earlobe.
Thanks Murat, your videos are massively helpful. Had my first go at sideways twist Khatra outdoors at the club today & it all went surprisingly well, thanks to you & Armin Hirmer & Justin Ma. We'll have a few people shooting thumb draw soon lol 😁
Very interesting and informative video. Thank you for taking the time to include English language section.
Thank you, Murat!
Great. Yours, sir, are the best teaching videos out there. Very informative and practical. Especially for a person without a teacher. 🙂👍🇨🇦
Thank you!
I Like your Instruction Style I look forward to each and every Video Because you not only explain, You bring the Instruction, (to life), into reality. Thank you for your Teaching. I hope to get, my first, Turkish Re-curve That will be my first bow ever in the future. I Love Everything about The Turkish Recurve Bow over all the other's from all over the East. I also Hope to Learn how to Create The real Turkish Re-curve's starting in the Summer next year. Again Thank you for your time Teaching the World about this Great Sport. Bob J Jackson, Papillion, Nebraska.
I love your teaching videos. Traditional archery is very dinamic. Thanks
Thank you for your interest!
Wow! Love this form of archery. Going to incorporate this level of flexibility into my training. Thanks for posting this. Found myself watching the lead hand as well, great khatra!!
Concentration dedication and strength man ! I can open real Ottoman bows now ! no problems !
Bravo! Thank you very much for this wonderful interesting lesson, I'm a Traditional Recurve Archer in Italy
Thank you for your interest and feed back!
Excellent video as always Murat!
well explained, teşekkürler ederim kardeşim
My pleasure!
Thanks a lot guys.
Thank you for sharing. Amazing master archer, blessed by God.
Mashaallah very informative video
Very well Murat,
Thank you.
Great video
Thank you so much!
Excellent video as usual Murat
A tutoring video about khatra would be greatly received
I am struggling with this and most explaintion do not help or I am unable to follow correctly
Again a superb post
Thank you! There is a video mine about hatra and the related arrow dynamics already. Would you like to have another one with more technical details?
@@abdulkabza Thank you for your reply Murat
Both hatra videos have been very informative and explains very well the importance of the left-hand when using thumb release.
A "fools guide" or step by step instruction of left upper limb biomechanics would be of great as I can see the movement of the bow but am unsure how to do this and at what exact point of thumb release to start.
@@glennc1961 It is directly related to hoe the grip is grasped. In old treatises there are 3, 4 and sometimes 5 gripping techniques have been mentioned but unfortunately, they are named but rarely described. I did a biomechanical study with academics in sports sciences and evaluated two of these grip-techniques together with the related hatra styles. So, hatra is a natural outcome of how you grasp and push/torque the bowgrip.
This is where I beleive I may go wrong. I come from shooting western style grip and draw with english longbow, but recently have swapped to thumb draw with turkish thumb ring.
I am just about getting used to using a thumb ring and am going to lengthen my draw to my earlobe today at the range. But with western style grip you hold very loose with Index finger, do you use firm grip with thumb draw archery?
Unfortunately no one shoots this way that I know so struggle to get the right form when shooting
Any tips would be greatly receives
@@glennc1961 the thumb and index fingers of the bowhand shud be loose while the rest hold the grip firnly. These three fingers either give a torque to the grip or push it forward so that the bow turns outwards on is vertical axis or tilts forward during release
Muy interesante
Very interesting video, thanks! They must have been quite strong to be changing drawing techniques with those 110+ lb bows they were using for war.
I doubt it. Thumb release was used by the warriors of the professional armies of East. They practiced quite well, with persistancy and dedication. Even I can handle 80+pound bows easily at my age, which I believe was too old for ancient times to be an active and functional warrior. So, they might've been quite in control of 100+ pound bows, even from different anchor points.
@@abdulkabza Hi Murat, you must have misread my comment. I was saying they WERE strong.
@@dgriswold93 Yeah! Sorry for careless reading. You are right!
Excelente!👌👍
Where I can participate traditional Turk archery shooting ?
Thank you!
Complimenti..veramente bravo..grazie
So with Memluke, ottoman and Turkish archery, the thumb ring touches the earlobe right. Because I would love to do a video on this. I just got done shooting yesterday with the Anchor point the thumb ring on the earlobe and the tip of the arrow touching my hand. And I literally shot a 8 inch group at 40 meters after watching this and trying it.
Niiiice!
@@abdulkabza so is that the official way to do memluke archery. The thumb ring touching the earlobe.
@@BLACKXARCHERY Yes, indeed!
@@abdulkabza AWESOME 😎. ITS such a super accurate style. It’s also super fast.
Hocam ağzınıza sağlık .
Very good!!
VERY GOOD!!!
Hocam merhaba. Ben yay seti aldım ve kendimce atışlar yapıyorum. Fakat şöyle bir sorun var. hedefe nişan aldığımda ok her seferinde hedefin sağına gidiyor. Ben de bu yüzden hedefe değilde hedefin sol tarafına atıyorum ancak öyle vurabiliyorum. Bunun sebebi nedir? Teşekkürler
Temel okçuluk eğitimi aldınız mı?
Good video
For earlobe and moustache level, Does the right hand have to stick or touch the cheek or earlobe to give the best results?
For consistancy and accuracy yes...
@@abdulkabza thank you so much :)
Hopefuly You make video how to grip the bow properly and bow arm position :)
I usually wind up hitting my ear or face lol I need to practice this now
Good video. I agree.
I would like to buy a Turkish bow, very flexible and powerful, like yours and would be grateful if you could share some links of where to buy and specification, I am based in the UK.
Thank you.
Ypu may choose from the products of two good bowyers Tuncay Keskin and Onur Şimşek. şimşek bows are all-resin while Keskin makes both laminated and all-resin models. Some of their models are tested and have been in use in our group Tirendaz. Test videos are available in this channel. They both ship to UK. Regards.
Thank you. What pound draw weight is your bow?
@@michaelsingh5053 This one I used in the.video is 56#@28
@@abdulkabza Thank you
Atış yaptığımda yayın kirişi kabzayı tutan koluma çarpıyor bunu düzeltmek için kabzayı belli bir açıyla tuttuğumda ise isabetli atış yapamıyorum buna ne tür bir çözüm önerirsiniz
Kabza tutuşunuz, kabza tarafındaki omzunuzun pozisyonu (aşağıda olmalı) ya da şast elinizin bırakış sırasında yüzünüzden çok uzaklaşmasıyla ilgili olabilir. Atışınızı profilde ve sağ omuz arkasından videoya kaydedin ve bu söylediğim kısımlarda hata yapıp yapmadığınıza bakın.
@@abdulkabza Deneyeceğim teşekkürler.
Great. What about pivot point and center of bow?
Are you asking the brace height? Different for any bow. Usually at around 19 cm fr TR bow
Can you give me example vidio how to hold the bow ,with yours way?
Teşekkürler. Bu arada Murat abi sana bıyık çok yakışıyor bence sadece bıyık bırak.
hi at 1:39 i get a little confused , the caption refers to mughals being turkish military elite .
but i thought you said mamluk (sp) in the audio .
is there mughal refrences in the treaties?
thks, liked the video, as i always do . not quibbling just confused ,since there is some over lap between mamluk(sp) warrior caste,( which served so long.) and the mughal empire which is a blending of mongol n turkic cultures with indian subconntinent .
cheers
There are referrals to both Mamluk and Mughals in the video. Mughals had ethnic relations with Turks and Mongols but the Turkish cultural influence should be considered as being dominant as can be seen clearly in Baburnamah, the memories of Babur Shah himself. He mentions sending a falcon to invaders as a diplomatic way of threating, and calls it a Turkish custom ("as it has always been done when Turkish land was invaded by others"). Another very good proof is that the text is written in Chaghatay dialect of Turkish, also known as "Eastern Turkish". Although there are no archery treatises from Mamluks, at least not to my best knowledge, Baburnamah reveals some technical aspects of bowhooting, like that of a lower anchor. And that was the point that I referred to in the video.
@@abdulkabza
Thks.
You flip the bow sideways and forward after release, does this allow you to use a wider variety of arrows spine-wise?
To be more concrete: can you shoot arrows which wouled be too stiff for the bow with "normal" release and would fly to the left or right depending on which side of the bow you are resting the arrow?
Or can you even ignore arrow spine (as long as it is not too weak and breaks) and shoot very stiff arrows?
Spine issue is not completely illegible w thumb release but you can handle a very wide spectrum of shafts with this lateral twist of the bow. The classical Turkish hatra, which is the forward tilting of the bow,does effect the dynamic spine as well,but not as much as the twist.
Hocam çapa noktamıza elimizi dayamalı yani mandal yaptığımız el çapa noktamıza değmeli mı yoksa mesafeli mı olmalı
Asıl çapa aslında sırttaki kas ve kemiklerin belli bir konfigürasyonda yerleşmesi. Mandalın yüze yapışması şart değil, ama kesinlikle yakın olmalı. Uzaktan çekişe "açık kestirme" denirdi ve istenmeyen bir şey olduğu açıkça yazılmıştır.
@@abdulkabza hocam teşekkür ederim iyiki varsınız
When pulling to the earlobe, should anything actually touch the earlobe physically? Or does it mean just "to the level of the earlobe"?
For beginners it is better to touch ir with the thumbring
Thank you@
For me pulling to the earlobe is 32". Or very close to it. But it's hard to find a Turkish bow that pulls that far. They are mostly 28" or 29" unfortunately. Why is that?
Simply because everybody thinks that all Ottoman bows were short. They weren't. According to Dr. Yücel the lengths of the bows in Topkapı Palace Museum vary 88 to 135 cm. For archers who drew very long there were Crimean Tatar bows which shud be considered among the bows of the empire. They have not been used by Tatars only but manufactured in Istanbul and perhaps used in Central Asia too.
@@abdulkabza I didn't know that. Interesting. Thank you 😁
How tall are you? My earlobe is like 29" and I'm 5'10" lol
@@jake4194 186cm. I think that's 6'1"
Cool !
Benim atışlar hep sağa gidiyor neden olabilir acaba
Hep sağa gidiyorsa daha sola doğru atın.
Hmmm now im curious and going to see if shooting from my chest or eye make a difference in my accuracy.
With the same configuration of scapulae and back muscles it requires a bit practice only.0
Beautiful girls and archery. It doesn't get better than that :D
😁
Why the whole world excluding germans call our ancestors „ottoman“ and not „osman“ ?😂
Hungarians call us Osman too. I thibk Pols as well. It is about the cultural exchange and common past. Other than that, Osman spelled differently in Arabic and the "s" is a sound somewhere between s and t.
abdulkabza where in turkey the archery tradition is still alive ? In Antakya i never saw some archers.
@@striple6752 There are numerous clubs almost everywhere.
Excellent video. Please refrain from speaking over the call to prayer. Salaams from UK x