This video is great. I have a late 2nd model made in 1881 with a set trigger, and I've always wondered, but hadn't been able to find the answer through online research, if it had the correct lever as it has the boss for the trigger block. Glad to finally know that it's correct for the vintage.
I have the literal brother to that 2nd model. 30 inch barrel with set trigger and wouldn't you know I had to do the exact same thing and had to fix the set trigger when I got it. LOL Had to make a new fly for it as it was missing. Thanks for sharing I really enjoy all your videos.
Hi Rick. I don't recall with certainty, but I think they hold 19 rounds. Check out this early episode. It'll have the answer for you. ua-cam.com/video/FjYaKtpSdOc/v-deo.html
Mark, as always another great video for Winchester fanatics. I'd love to see a part two, comparing 2nd and 3rd generation 73s. I have an early gen 3 (164k range sn) and it would be interesting to hear about differences, if any, from the gen 2 etc.for a complete transitional history from its inception in 1873. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into these videos for us. It's truly appreciated.
I have a nastalgia for the past and old ways of craftmanship. Even looking at old boxes from that era, I believe we were at the height of understanding with metal work and wood furniture. love this channel. most infomative leveraction channel!
Enjoyed the video as always. You always do the 73’s justice. All this time I really thought that Winchester had set the 1st models, 2nd model and so on. Makes perfect sense now. My 73 from 79 is one of those with the thumb print oval on the dust cover as well as the screw in magazine plug and the 5 groove barrel. One day I’ll send it to you for a good look over. I do hope to have this 3rd model ready to ship out to you in the next couple of weeks. But you are definitely the 73 go to guy in my book. Thanks Mark for these videos. They help out a lot with these old guns. 👍
Just more indication of gradual changes, my only 1st model (15000 sn range) is in between those shown here. It has the lever and receiver like the early one here but has the sights on the barrel like the late 1st model and 2nd model shown here. Mine also has a 26 inch barrel and set trigger but those were options and indicated on the factory letter.
Great video and information. Over the years I have owned several of the replicas from different manufacturers and even those are sometimes finicky about the bullets they like. I found one company that makes a 1-20 which I think is about a 10 Brin that I have had good luck with on targets. Still don’t know if that hardness is soft enough to expand on game at original 44wcf velocity of 1300 ft sec. I know the original bullet was pure lead and about a 5 to 6 I was in Cody about a year ago at the Museum before I found your channel. Next time I’m up that way will definitely have to come check out your shop
Great video, Mark! You brought up an interesting observation for me. How soon after shooting these old gals, with blackpowder loads, do you clean them. Seems to me, immediately after getting home. I have a young friend, who bought an 1893 Marlin lever, in 38-55. He wants to load blackpowder cartridges, since this gun, made in 1894, is 150 years old. Any suggestions?
The sooner the better. I try to clean them as soon as I get home with them after shooting. The residue itself isn't particularly corrosive, but it draws moisture. Leaving the residue in the barrel over time will draw moisture into the bore The moisture in combination with the black powder residue with eat up the bore. A word of advice to your friend. Early 1893 Marlins in 38-55 are another rifle with a reputation for have oversized bores. It'd be a good idea to slug the bore to find out the groove diameter of the barrel before choosing a proper bullet diameter for his rifle.
I have a third generation 1873 in 32 cal. My question is, do the 32 cal have the same oversized bore issue as the 44 cals do? Thanks for another great video as always...
Very nice 1873’s your information on the cast bullets is right most commercial bullets are just to hard and the bevel base is not good for these old guns.
Exactly! It's hard to find commercially made cast bullets that work well with black powder loads. It's a good incentive to start casting for those who don't already.
@@thecinnabar8442 Yes that’s what I do I’ve been casting since I was 13 years old and that was a long time ago I really enjoy getting a custom mold from accurate mold in Utah they make great molds you can get a custom-made mold to fit what you needs are.
What's funny is they actually use "hard cast" as a selling point as if it was beneficial. Too hard is detrimental for accuracy in most firearms, especially revolvers. The only time it is good is for those trying to get jacketed bullet velocity in rifles. Even then, bullet fit has to be correct to get decent performance.
I have a new 1873, probably couldn't afford a historic 73. Great video, appreciate the information. Got any idea where can I find a new or good used 32 Winchester Special barrel, 26 inch Octagonal. for an 1894 made in 1902 ?
Sorry, I don't. It's hard to find good used barrels. Most take-off barrels were taken off because they have problems. You may want to consider a new barrel or having one relined.
I think I read the very first one's were sans an attachment screw on the side access plate. The plates were being lost as a result, and Winchester added the screw.
When I asked Jesi at the Cody Records Office to look up the factory record for that early second model, she told me there was a big run of identically optioned 1873's made at that time, with 30" barrels and set triggers. Too bad they don't have a record of who ordered them. It'd be very interesting information. It'd be an enjoyable rifle to hunt with. Bullet selection and load development would be very important in order to get it shooting accurately.
Yes, there was a timeframe when Winchester was in a patent infringement fight over the use of dust covers. During that time they produced a fairly limited number of "open top" 1873's and 1876's.
I would like to see the changes Winchester made to the lever cut post 64. My 70s model 94 is fairly unused and takes a manly effort to cycle including cocking the hammer. Of course you would expect the finish to be worse. Internals I think would be similar or worse on the older rifles. "What you can't see......"
I have an 1873 with the 3’d model dust cover. The rail is forged into the receiver. However it doesn’t have the trigger block safety. It does have the lever with the flat boss but no safety. I want to have it restored. Serial no. is 127487A. Which puts it into the 3rd model time frame. Very confusing. Are anomalies like this common?
It sounds like a third model that's simply missing the trigger block. It's not altogether uncommon for them to have been removed by a previous owner who may not have liked this feature. We'd be happy to talk to you about restoring it. Our contact info is on our website: www.wyomingarmory.com/
I've never seen that before except, of course, on set trigger 1873's. There's not enough room for both set trigger internals and the trigger block safety. If yours doesn't have a set trigger, I'd be interested in seeing a picture of it.
That answers it! It does have a set trigger. Also a 32” barrel. It’s pretty rough. About like the one you worked on in your rust remedy video. I’m on the fence on whether to have it restored or just making a wall hanger out of it. The bolt catches on the hammer when cycled. Maybe I’ll e mail you some photos. If it’s worth restoring you will be the one I’ll trust it to. You have been very kind and prompt on your replies.
Nice video. Interesting to learn more of the details about first vrs second models. Just out of curiosity, when you say the hard casts are "bad for the old guns" is it more just because you don't get the good bump up to fill the bore l, or is the harder lead actually bad for the rifling?
Any lead bullets that don't fully engage the rifling tend to shave off lead and cause leading in the barrel which can be very hard to remove. It has a negative impact on accuracy and for the barrel.
This video is great. I have a late 2nd model made in 1881 with a set trigger, and I've always wondered, but hadn't been able to find the answer through online research, if it had the correct lever as it has the boss for the trigger block. Glad to finally know that it's correct for the vintage.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for showing us those great old rifles, and for taking us along to the range!
I love the 1873s. Thanks for showing these.
You're very welcome!
I have the literal brother to that 2nd model. 30 inch barrel with set trigger and wouldn't you know I had to do the exact same thing and had to fix the set trigger when I got it. LOL Had to make a new fly for it as it was missing. Thanks for sharing I really enjoy all your videos.
Jesi at the Cody Records Office told me there was a big order for 30", set trigger 1873's at that time. I'd love to know who ordered them and why.
How many rounds does that 30" hold?
@thecinnabar8442 very interesting, I'd love to know as well.
Hi Rick. I don't recall with certainty, but I think they hold 19 rounds. Check out this early episode. It'll have the answer for you. ua-cam.com/video/FjYaKtpSdOc/v-deo.html
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you Mark I watched that video the answer is 17 rounds.
Mark, as always another great video for Winchester fanatics. I'd love to see a part two, comparing 2nd and 3rd generation 73s. I have an early gen 3 (164k range sn) and it would be interesting to hear about differences, if any, from the gen 2 etc.for a complete transitional history from its inception in 1873. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into these videos for us. It's truly appreciated.
I have a nastalgia for the past and old ways of craftmanship. Even looking at old boxes from that era, I believe we were at the height of understanding with metal work and wood furniture. love this channel. most infomative leveraction channel!
Beautiful rifle’s great information. Miss the home range shooting! 👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
Keep an eye out,, Jeff. We''ll be posting some episodes from The Cinnabar soon.
Enjoyed the video as always. You always do the 73’s justice. All this time I really thought that Winchester had set the 1st models, 2nd model and so on. Makes perfect sense now. My 73 from 79 is one of those with the thumb print oval on the dust cover as well as the screw in magazine plug and the 5 groove barrel. One day I’ll send it to you for a good look over. I do hope to have this 3rd model ready to ship out to you in the next couple of weeks. But you are definitely the 73 go to guy in my book. Thanks Mark for these videos. They help out a lot with these old guns. 👍
Thanks for the video and explaining the difference. My 32-20 is joy but nothing like a 44wcf
Happy to see you are still enjoying Wyoming.
Just more indication of gradual changes, my only 1st model (15000 sn range) is in between those shown here. It has the lever and receiver like the early one here but has the sights on the barrel like the late 1st model and 2nd model shown here. Mine also has a 26 inch barrel and set trigger but those were options and indicated on the factory letter.
Thanks Mark, it's great to see you and those old guns doing what they were made for. How many rounds does that 1873 with the 30" barrel hold?
Great video and information. Over the years I have owned several of the replicas from different manufacturers and even those are sometimes finicky about the bullets they like. I found one company that makes a 1-20 which I think is about a 10 Brin that I have had good luck with on targets. Still don’t know if that hardness is soft enough to expand on game at original 44wcf velocity of 1300 ft sec. I know the original bullet was pure lead and about a 5 to 6
I was in Cody about a year ago at the Museum before I found your channel. Next time I’m up that way will definitely have to come check out your shop
Great video, Mark!
You brought up an interesting observation for me. How soon after shooting these old gals, with blackpowder loads, do you clean them. Seems to me, immediately after getting home.
I have a young friend, who bought an 1893 Marlin lever, in 38-55. He wants to load blackpowder cartridges, since this gun, made in 1894, is 150 years old. Any suggestions?
The sooner the better. I try to clean them as soon as I get home with them after shooting. The residue itself isn't particularly corrosive, but it draws moisture. Leaving the residue in the barrel over time will draw moisture into the bore The moisture in combination with the black powder residue with eat up the bore.
A word of advice to your friend. Early 1893 Marlins in 38-55 are another rifle with a reputation for have oversized bores. It'd be a good idea to slug the bore to find out the groove diameter of the barrel before choosing a proper bullet diameter for his rifle.
Thanks, Mark, for the bullet advice. I plan to have him slug the bore, and we shall go from there!
Thanks Mark Those Rifles Are A Dream Of Mine To One Day Be an Owner of One 😀😇😊❤️
Wonderful old rifles. It was kind of hard to let them go, but I can't keep them all, darn it!
I enjoyed your video. Thanks for sharing!
You're very welcome!
Great video.
Thanks.
You're very welcome!
I have a new production Murku made 73 and it is one of the funest firearms I have for plinking with
Great video... Have you ever compared the ballistics and accuracy of the 44-40 and the 38-40?
Beautiful rifles. Thanks.
You're very welcome!
It was great to see the handloads look more powerful than the factory.
If you actually went hunting with a 44WCF then handloads would be the ticket.
I have a third generation 1873 in 32 cal. My question is, do the 32 cal have the same oversized bore issue as the 44 cals do? Thanks for another great video as always...
Very nice 1873’s your information on the cast bullets is right most commercial bullets are just to hard and the bevel base is not good for these old guns.
Exactly! It's hard to find commercially made cast bullets that work well with black powder loads. It's a good incentive to start casting for those who don't already.
@@thecinnabar8442 Yes that’s what I do I’ve been casting since I was 13 years old and that was a long time ago I really enjoy getting a custom mold from accurate mold in Utah they make great molds you can get a custom-made mold to fit what you needs are.
What's funny is they actually use "hard cast" as a selling point as if it was beneficial. Too hard is detrimental for accuracy in most firearms, especially revolvers. The only time it is good is for those trying to get jacketed bullet velocity in rifles. Even then, bullet fit has to be correct to get decent performance.
Hello sir, from Quebec , very interesting
Thanks a bunch for watching!
I have a new 1873, probably couldn't afford a historic 73. Great video, appreciate the information. Got any idea where can I find a new or good used 32 Winchester Special barrel, 26 inch Octagonal. for an 1894 made in 1902 ?
Sorry, I don't. It's hard to find good used barrels. Most take-off barrels were taken off because they have problems. You may want to consider a new barrel or having one relined.
I think I read the very first one's were sans an attachment screw on the side access plate. The plates were being lost as a result, and Winchester added the screw.
As far as I know, they had side plate screws from the beginning of production.
Wow! Awesome!
I have 30,268 which shows all the same features as you early 2nd model. I should take her hunting this fall!
When I asked Jesi at the Cody Records Office to look up the factory record for that early second model, she told me there was a big run of identically optioned 1873's made at that time, with 30" barrels and set triggers. Too bad they don't have a record of who ordered them. It'd be very interesting information.
It'd be an enjoyable rifle to hunt with. Bullet selection and load development would be very important in order to get it shooting accurately.
was there a model 73 with no sliding dust cover?
Yes, there was a timeframe when Winchester was in a patent infringement fight over the use of dust covers. During that time they produced a fairly limited number of "open top" 1873's and 1876's.
Love seeing the old guns fired.
It's great fun for me too!! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Can you talk about 1894 flat band thank you
What is it that you want to know about them?
I would like to see the changes Winchester made to the lever cut post 64.
My 70s model 94 is fairly unused and takes a manly effort to cycle including cocking the hammer.
Of course you would expect the finish to be worse.
Internals I think would be similar or worse on the older rifles.
"What you can't see......"
I have an 1873 with the 3’d model dust cover. The rail is forged into the receiver. However it doesn’t have the trigger block safety. It does have the lever with the flat boss but no safety. I want to have it restored. Serial no. is 127487A. Which puts it into the 3rd model time frame. Very confusing. Are anomalies like this common?
It sounds like a third model that's simply missing the trigger block. It's not altogether uncommon for them to have been removed by a previous owner who may not have liked this feature. We'd be happy to talk to you about restoring it. Our contact info is on our website: www.wyomingarmory.com/
There’s not even a hole in the bottom of the receiver where the safety would have protruded.
I've never seen that before except, of course, on set trigger 1873's. There's not enough room for both set trigger internals and the trigger block safety. If yours doesn't have a set trigger, I'd be interested in seeing a picture of it.
That answers it! It does have a set trigger. Also a 32” barrel. It’s pretty rough. About like the one you worked on in your rust remedy video. I’m on the fence on whether to have it restored or just making a wall hanger out of it. The bolt catches on the hammer when cycled. Maybe I’ll e mail you some photos. If it’s worth restoring you will be the one I’ll trust it to. You have been very kind and prompt on your replies.
Hello Cody, from Omaha
Hello Omaha! Thanks for watching our channel
At what range were you shooting?
Thy Mark.
Nice video. Interesting to learn more of the details about first vrs second models. Just out of curiosity, when you say the hard casts are "bad for the old guns" is it more just because you don't get the good bump up to fill the bore l, or is the harder lead actually bad for the rifling?
Any lead bullets that don't fully engage the rifling tend to shave off lead and cause leading in the barrel which can be very hard to remove. It has a negative impact on accuracy and for the barrel.
Woohoo