Because it's the truth.follow my logic. If Kobe isn't better than Shaq than he's knocked out the top 5. Best he can be is top 10. NOONE has Shaq over LeBron. Same with my Spurs Goat Tim Duncan Kobe doesn't have as many Fmvps as Tim Duncan plus Kobe wasn't a perennial all defensive selections for 19 of 20 years. NOONE has Tim Duncan over LeBron . Kobe wasn't a better player than LeBron Kareem MJ or Bi11 Russe11 Tim Duncan, Shaq Larry Bird magic. So how is he top 3
@@kingangel3252 Kobe is better than Shaq all-time. I’d understand if we were talking peak for peak, in that case I’d put Shaq over anyone, but for a career it’s Kobe. Also I think Duncan is severely underrated but that doesn’t make him better than Kobe. With everyone that you named the narrative on the amount of help they received is much different than it was for Kob’. Also slight correction Kobe shares the record for most all defensive first team selections (9) and 12 total selections for his 20 year career.
As a Kobe fan i clearly remember Kobe being talked about #2 especially going to three straight finals two different times. It pisses me off when ppl say we put him there cuz of his death. Like that’s such a ignorant thing to say
@@luckycarter536but that argument isn’t even fair for anyone. Prime Shaq even if you think he wasn’t the best player, if he played with Jordan, Bron, Magic, or Bird, etc…would have the game play through him due to his dominance. That wouldn’t be a knock to any of the other players mentioned but a coach would be a fool to not have Shaq as your number one option always. And you could make a case that even with sacrificing his game and being able to play the way he did aside Shaq can be a plus instead of a minus
@@cherifdiarra9227 no it would 100% be a knock are you fucking kidding me? 😂😂 people will die on a hill that lebron played on a super team his WHOLE career. People say Jordan had his team catered to him PERFECTLY. People make that case about magic and Kareem to this day 😂😂 and Larry bird is getting slandered a lot more recently, but it’s also because he’s being overrated. How could you possibly try and say those players wouldn’t be knocked down for having the most DOMINATE player and with debatably the most unstoppable and best peak of all time. Give lebron, Jordan, magic, or Larry bird PRIME SHAQ and they all will have 7 or more chips. Trying to argue that lebron and Jordan, the two people who get the most heat wouldn’t be knocked for winning with shaq is a TRASH statement
That’s fair, but the general public after Kobe’s death were all calling him the goat. People who were super super causal were all saying Kobe was the goat which was a much larger portion than the people who actually watched basketball and already had Kobe in their top 10, top 5, or wherever they put them. This is literally a google search away and all you have to do is understand basic statistics, smh
You did though, no one was staying he was top 2 besides LA fans, at most they were saying he was teh #2 guard after MJ but not the second best player lol
Saying X player its my favorite doesn't mean he's the fucking goat, that's two different things, and that's what a lot of players and fans are mixing up these days, Wade was my favorite SG to watch but I don't have a legitimate argument of him being the goat, know why? Cuz he doesn't have it
@@dominiquebrown2890 Tell that to KG, Tatum, Pierce, Ja, JJJ, Gilbert Arenas and several other player if we’re going off players logic cause clearly you can’t speak for yourself. Like I said if you disagree, that’s your opinion, but you don’t have your opinion. Clearly.
@@dominiquebrown2890 At this point, if you don’t have Lebron and MJ as your top two then you’re just either extremely biased or just not the brightest all together
@bbcpfghs who decided lebron was top 2? All the players that played against both in their primes say kobe is better. So, who were these people saying lebron is #2. Oh nvm i know it was the media, and then the fans followed what the media said.
@@dominiquebrown2890 So why the players I named feel the same way? Point is everyone has their own opinion on why they feel Lebron is Top 2. Like I said if you disagree, that’s your opinion.
Just think of how analysts talked about Kobe pre-2016. He was constantly in Top 5 conversations. Even super Bron fans of today, like Shannon Sharpe, had Kobe #2. There’s mountains of evidence of players, coaches, GMs, etc saying Kobe was the best in the game, the GOAT, top 3, etc. After 2016, the narrative became “is Kobe even Top 10”. I’ve personally never seen a Top 10 player’s reputation get diminished so quickly. Nowadays, it seems like anytime someone wants to compare a current players legacy to a legend (and say the player is better than a legend) they go straight for Kobe. I saw LeBron get thrust into the GOAT convo and Kobe fall out of people’s top 5 simultaneously in real-time. I think there was definitely a mission in the media. It’s clear these boys are too young to remember if they’re saying Kobe was never really talked about as the GOAT or GOAT candidate. The fact that bro said A.I. is a clown for what he said is wild.
Exactly. How do people forget about Kareem. My personal opinion is Magic belongs in that #3 conversation with Kareem. But it’s just crazy that we act like the 70s-80s didn’t happen. I understand the 60s because the game was so different. But in personally also considering Bill and Wilt up there before Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, and Steph.
I just think kobe came up in an era when it was rings over everything so when he got five at the time he was looked as top 3-5 with an opportunity to be the goat, but the way ppl think about basketball has changed drastically since kobe retired and it's been a huge detriment to his all time standing. For one the rise of analytics caused a huge focus on efficiency which (in comparison to other all time greats) kobe is not extremely efficient, making his high volume scoring seem less valuable. In addition after Bron won a ring in 16, people started focusing a lot more on context and degree of difficulty in championships. So the fact the shaq won 3 fmvps and was arguably the best player in the world during the 3 peat, while kobe was 2nd best player on the team diminishes the impact of those rings for a lot of ppl. The final nail in the coffin was curry winning in 22 as many (who didn't actually watch kobe play) were ready to put curry top 10 and kobe was the easiest guy to boot out of the top 10 for the above mentioned reasons.
How old is sage? Bro claims to be a Kobe fan but said Kobe was never 2. Was his not watching basketball 2006-2011. It’s a reason Kobe chose 24. It was always Kobe & Jordan ! Whether Kobe was over iordan was the topic. The media would say “the best we seen besides Jordan” or the closest to Mike !! No one was saying 4-8.. what players besides Jordan was anyone puttin over Kobe? Y’all really be kids and tryna talk about “history” SMH
Naaaah I’m 35 and a die hard fan. Kobe was never 2. If anything his legacy only improved with time because at the time he was seen as not being goat worthy because he was the Batman for his first 3 championships. It really started to change his last two championships but by that point Lebron was already playing and people were kind of moving on. So you might have had like a few years there. Also, people in the early 2000s still respected Kareem, Magic and bird and wouldn’t have put him above those guys.
@@joelman1989 they where talking about if kobe was better than mj back in 08 vs the celtics in the finals. if u where a die hard fan u wouldve known that
@@drue1209 never said I was a die hard Kobe fan. Though he’s in my top 5 favorite players for sure. I did say you might have had a few years there during his last two titles. But again I think no one serious about basketball was honestly saying Kobe is better than MJ lol. That’s a ridiculous statement since MJ was better in basically every category except the 3 point shot. But to be fair to Kobe no one is better than MJ. Although Lebron at least has a few categories he competes with or beats MJ. The problem with Kobe vs MJ is Kobe’s game was so similar it’s so easy to compare them and see MJ is better.
@joelman1989 what yall dont understand is that stats don't make you a better player. Everyone has different jobs to do on the court, plus everyone isn't the same height nor plays the same position nor has the same roles. If you watch kobe and mj. You can see kobe has more skills than him, which makes him a better player, but the rings make mj better because with his craft, he led his team to 6-0 while kobe was 5-2. Lebron has a basic game, and all his success comes from him his athletic abilities, not skills. That's why he struggles the end of the game or when great defenders on his because he can't beat them and he needs a pick to get a switch
The league got in the way of Kobe having a chance at six or seven with David Stern vetoing the CP3 trade. They needed him out the way so Bron could take over.
@@deanoss777 yes/no. I want to know how you comepare across eras,position,rules and style of play to end up with 1 player being the best at something. This has to be the dumbest debate ever. This debate often times tears one player down to prop another. We have 4 guys on this pod who honestly probably didn’t see MJ or Kobe prime but have an opinion about where he’s ranked. Also how arrogant do you have to be to think you would know better than the people who have competed against these guys. All these list are about who you like better not who is better. Career vs Better player often times are 2 different things. Basketball is about 2 things offense and defense and what player does those 2 things better relative to your position.
the only thing that people can argue againt kobe is literally mvps and anyone that wasnt 2 yo in that era knows the media and the league was against kobe and tried to get rid of him as the face of the league and give it to lebron cuz of his off court issues. not even talking about the cp3 veto. realistically kobe could have won 6/7 rings and multiple mvps without denver. i hate when ppl compare career and accolades and dont put context on it.
I’ve heard people say after the 5th ring “he’s right behind Michael” but a lot of that was hype tbh being like MJ in playstyle, being a prolific scorer, being a Nike athlete etc. but in reality, he’s not top 5 looking at it away from the height of his stardom. Top 10, sure.
This logic about ppl who got beat by a potential GOAT have him as their GOAT is BS too. Most current NBA players still know who THE GOAT is and they didn't play a single game against him. GOAT is who your favorite player is??? Embarrassing. It is definitive going of MULTIPLE criterias. Yall take is laughable.
Call me an old head but i think it should be more than just numbers and analytics. Like people dont watch games they look up anayltics, how you play the game, style, mentality, moments matter a lot more to me than most. Kids these days be putting hardem over kobe and dwade but imo thats just disrespectful
I can tell you people don't say hes greater cause he passed smh that's a dumbass take because kobe resume speaks for it self. People love to discredit Kobe
This is one of the most, “I never engaged in basketball discourse” takes out there. If anything he has been underrated and when he passed this narrative came about from analysts like Nick Wright and people try to use it to say Kobe isn't even top 10. Before he retired he was unanimously seen as top 10, while he was the best in the league he had every MJ comparison and was being ranked in the top 3-5 range; especially pre-injury.
Easily the corniest takes I've ever heard by Lil bill on the bottom left with the red headphones buddy wasn't in the show and it was going good then he comes in and talks about dicks and disrespect ai like bro stop 😂
Only reason why KOBE was never viewed as THE GOAT is because ppl knew who THE GOAT was and still is. Ppl weren't as desperate with KOBE as they are with their King. That's all.
I have said it multiple times the actual goat is elective not subjective we elected mike in 94 and haven’t collectively as a basketball community given Kobe or Bron over 50% of the vote
Niggas on this panel don’t know basketball… ALL THE ALL TIME GREATS say Kobe is better while people on this podcast that never hooped in they life talkin bout bron better 🤣🤣
Ima have to disagree with Sage here because I vividly remember from 2016-2020 I heard no one say Kobe was top5 he was rarely in top 10 discussions. I can clearly remember everyone having Shaq above Kobe all time and Shaq was in the 6-9 range. But the second he died the amount of Kobe is better Lebron Kobe is top 3 was everywhere.
I don’t think after Kobe’s prime was over anyone considered him the goat. And really by the time that great run he had from 2008 from 2010 where he won a league, MVP, and All-Star game, MVP, two NBA championships, two finals MVPs , Even when that started, he was still in his prime, but those were really I think the last three years of Kobe’s prime. He was still great the following year but if I’m talking about prime Kobe I think the year of 2010 was the last time he was in his absolute prime. Now what is very annoying to me not just as a Kobe fan but just as someone who just wants everything to stay honest and doesn’t like to see anyone’s legacy unfairly tarnished. There has been a few people not a lot but people like Nick Wright have come out and said things like Kobe Bryant was never the best player in the league, same thing from Colin Cowherd. Nick Wright was in high school in the 2000 so let’s just get that out of the way but Colin himself has stated back in the mid 2000s that Kobe was the greatest player in the world at the time. Stephen Smith stated several times Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world during the 2000. LeBron James stated in 2008 that Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world at that time. So I can’t make the argument that Kobe is the goat, but can we at least stop with this narrative that he was never the best player in the league? I’m not talking about where anyone ranks all time or anything like that, but can we at least give the man that? he was the greatest player of the 2000’s. If I meet, somebody and LeBron is in their top two, and they can sit there knowing damn well all the hell he had, being in a week, eastern conference, not being able to get the job done unless he’s damn near got an All-Star roster. If you can take all the final losses and everything else I just laid out and say that’s good enough to be in the top two then what Kobe did certainly qualifies for top five.
Maybe you goofies use GOAT to say your favorite player but the vast majority of us who actually know ball look at multiple factors and find out who's actually the best, and overall, it's Michael Jordan. My favorite player ever is literally AI lol. In no universe, am I going to claim he's the GOAT just cause I like him. Some of us have access to UA-cam and know more about old players than current players.
Kobe isnt better than lebron there really isnt a tangible argument for Kobe to be better. Just stuff about how kobe made you feel or mamaba mentality nonsese. Mamaba mentality is propoganda kobe quit in a game 7.
Its revenge of the nerds. All these nerdy guys who werent cool now have youtube channels and resent the players and their opinions. These nerdy guys want to force their opinions.
@@dominiquebrown2890These UA-cam guys are just like you and I, man. Trust, they are not sweating basketball like that lmao. I'd say that goes for some people in the media, too.
Only young guys and casuals boosted Kobe higher when he passed. If you were actually watching Kobe his entire career then you’d know how great he was and would be in your top 5. For instance, Domo is only like 26, he wasn’t even born when Kobe was drafted and probably didn’t start watching & truly understanding the game until he was maybe he 12-13. I’m not saying that’s the case with Domo I’m just giving an example of his generation. If you never watched them live where you don’t know the outcome then you don’t really look at players of the past the same as you would players of your era
Wtf is wrong with Omar disrespecting AI for no reason?? I’m happy they checked him. You can’t discredit a legend’s opinions that played against these guys and expect the viewers to respect YOUR takes when you’re a 25yr old non athlete that just started watching the sport 12yrs ago
Kobe changed his Number to 24 becuz he was regarded as r the 4-10 greatest player? He was already considered as good as mj , he just needed to rings to match . Not fmvps, not MVPs, not dpoy.. just rings !!! Now LeBron fans wanna add all kind of other things into the discussion becuz bron fell short on rings. It’s about your game and how many rings you have. 2 basic standards.
Especially after Kobe won his 5th title he was looked at as #2 with the potential to be #1 because he was only 31. On Facebook and in the barbershop we were discussing Kobe vs Jordan. ESPN stole the argument about 6 years later to make it Lebron vs Jordan which is a terrible argument
How is lebron vs mj a terrible argument but Kobe vs mj a great one kobe and mj are basically the same player but mj is just better all around and more accomplished it’s not even a debate
@@tacogaming1415 based off playing style they played the same position and their global impact on the game yes it’s a great argument. And yes MJ better. Lebron skill wise and impact is more comparable to magic. There really isn’t a good case or argument that isn’t ridiculous to compare Lebron to MJ
WHY DO YOUNGUYS ASSUME YOUNG PLAYERS HAVE NO ACCESS TO WATCHING 80s, 90s, and early 00s player footage? Like an 20 year old cant study moves from the greats before them and realize how great they werevto determine them as goats. My couson 17 WR rightnow he studieD Randy moss and Andre johnson his mouth dropped to the ground he called randy moss tge goaT WR.
@@egrassa1480 still a better shooter, scorer, passer and rebounder. And he didn't blow a 3-1 while quitting in game 7. If more rings makes Kobe better then the best player in the past 3 decades is Robert Horry
Kobe > Lebron... there's an intentional effort to undermine Kobe's greatness. Lebron doesn't have a third of the skills Kobe does. No doubt, Lebron is great but he's not better than the Black Mamba!
On Paper (meaning if you only look at his accolades and stats) Lebron is the Goat. But the actual historical context, he’s 2 or 3. Kobe on paper…is at top 15-20 player. In the actual context of his career, 6-7
The goat convo has always been a waste of air to kill time. Many players in many aspects can fit the bill, or have something someone doesn't. It comes down to simple bias of who you like most; dick suck with no real answer eod
lebron had the better career but kobe was the better baskatball player.. thats something u 4 will never understand it seems. u think career stats is > Basketball SKILLZ.... but u have just look at kobe how he was skilled in 1 vs 1 compared to lebrons stiff moves... and then tell me again lebron is better than kobe... no way... jordan is different discussion. he had the stats and the skill...but lebron? stats only
I’ve watched ball since 02 and I know Kobe is not even top 5, people over hype him because of his play style and mentality plus it helps he played for the most popular team for 20 years
@SESHTILWEREST 1. I don't believe you've been watching that long 2. All players who played against both picks kobe over LeBron. Do I believe nba players or some 19y/o LeBron fan on UA-cam 3. After kobe won in 09 talks was starting and after he won in 10 people all over the world was placing kobe as their goat/top2 or 3
@@melgoat I’ve been watching for 20 years. And not all the players choose Kobe, what are you smoking? Plus everyone knows it’s rare for players to give Bron his props when he’s still in the league.
Jordan is my favorite player and I’ve always had Kobe second to Jordan even because he’s my 2nd favorite player even before he passed away And for y’all to say that no one was ever the consensus goat. That’s a lie Jordan was and still is because the majority of people always votes him number one on every major sport poll for the past 20+ years 🐐💯
@@PHXNKVHXLIC NBA players rank Kobe very high, because they don’t judge him the way fans do because they actually played against him and seen him up close in person the fans are just going by not being the man the first 3 rings and his shooting percentage and him only having 1 MVP
What's YOUR goat is different from what's THE goat. But I still think you guys are "trapped in the moment" when you dismiss a player like Wilt Chamberland.
Kobe was viewed as an inefficient ball hog who scored a lot of points, but also won a lot of rings. Who also has the most missed shots. He was not in the actual GOAT discussion until his passing.
@dominiquebrown2890 lol what? LeBron head to head was 16-6 vs Kobe. LeBron has score more points and unlike Kobe immediately was good in the nba. LeBron is a better passer and defender than Kobe and he's a better three point shooter. LeBron never asked for a trade, never had off court issues, and was the best player on ever single championship team he was on. LeBron also never quit mid game nor did he miss the playoffs in his prime like Kobe.
@ubadman1 kobe had a better head to head record vs jordan that doesnt mean he's better. Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter? Bruh the man can barely make freethrows. Also, lebron didn't have to request a trade when he literally has his entire team traded year after year. And he definitely wasn't a better defender. That is why he always needed a dedicated wing defender to guard the opposing teams best player. Shane battier, iman shumpert, and the list goes on. Kobe was always the best defender on his team.
@ubadman1 he never missed the playoffs in the weak east. The teams that swept lebron in the finals is the team kobe had to beat to get to the finals. Kobe never said lebron was the best player in the league. Lebron admitted kobe was the best player.
Kobe fans were putting him top 3-5 even before he passed I don’t know why this narrative that people only rank him highly cause he passed exists.
Because it's the truth.follow my logic. If Kobe isn't better than Shaq than he's knocked out the top 5. Best he can be is top 10. NOONE has Shaq over LeBron. Same with my Spurs Goat Tim Duncan Kobe doesn't have as many Fmvps as Tim Duncan plus Kobe wasn't a perennial all defensive selections for 19 of 20 years. NOONE has Tim Duncan over LeBron . Kobe wasn't a better player than LeBron Kareem MJ or Bi11 Russe11 Tim Duncan, Shaq Larry Bird magic. So how is he top 3
Cause they did. He was in his rightful spot (5-10) before he passed. And now you see people attempting to put him over lebron when he isn’t.
@@kingangel3252 Kobe is better than Shaq all-time. I’d understand if we were talking peak for peak, in that case I’d put Shaq over anyone, but for a career it’s Kobe. Also I think Duncan is severely underrated but that doesn’t make him better than Kobe. With everyone that you named the narrative on the amount of help they received is much different than it was for Kob’. Also slight correction Kobe shares the record for most all defensive first team selections (9) and 12 total selections for his 20 year career.
@@ToBeHonestWitchuI grew up with Kobe I got Kobe #1 LBJ 2
@@svofoy_treI'm not going to say Kobe is better than Shaq when Shaq is the reason Kobe has 60percent of his chips.
A podcast where nobody is over talking each other 🔥🔥🔥
HMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!
As a Kobe fan i clearly remember Kobe being talked about #2 especially going to three straight finals two different times. It pisses me off when ppl say we put him there cuz of his death. Like that’s such a ignorant thing to say
Kobe played wit a player more dominant than himself, this is what hurts his case for top 2
@@luckycarter536but that argument isn’t even fair for anyone. Prime Shaq even if you think he wasn’t the best player, if he played with Jordan, Bron, Magic, or Bird, etc…would have the game play through him due to his dominance. That wouldn’t be a knock to any of the other players mentioned but a coach would be a fool to not have Shaq as your number one option always. And you could make a case that even with sacrificing his game and being able to play the way he did aside Shaq can be a plus instead of a minus
@@cherifdiarra9227 no it would 100% be a knock are you fucking kidding me? 😂😂 people will die on a hill that lebron played on a super team his WHOLE career. People say Jordan had his team catered to him PERFECTLY. People make that case about magic and Kareem to this day 😂😂 and Larry bird is getting slandered a lot more recently, but it’s also because he’s being overrated. How could you possibly try and say those players wouldn’t be knocked down for having the most DOMINATE player and with debatably the most unstoppable and best peak of all time. Give lebron, Jordan, magic, or Larry bird PRIME SHAQ and they all will have 7 or more chips. Trying to argue that lebron and Jordan, the two people who get the most heat wouldn’t be knocked for winning with shaq is a TRASH statement
That’s fair, but the general public after Kobe’s death were all calling him the goat. People who were super super causal were all saying Kobe was the goat which was a much larger portion than the people who actually watched basketball and already had Kobe in their top 10, top 5, or wherever they put them. This is literally a google search away and all you have to do is understand basic statistics, smh
You did though, no one was staying he was top 2 besides LA fans, at most they were saying he was teh #2 guard after MJ but not the second best player lol
Saying X player its my favorite doesn't mean he's the fucking goat, that's two different things, and that's what a lot of players and fans are mixing up these days, Wade was my favorite SG to watch but I don't have a legitimate argument of him being the goat, know why? Cuz he doesn't have it
russ is the goat
There is no definitive GOAT in the NBA anyway, so it really doesn't matter
It’s sad people disrespect Kobe
Niggas a bum. Let him rest in peace
He a rapist
Kobe is in that 4-8 range. Personally Kobe is that 5. Bron #2, and MJ the GOAT. If you disagree, then that’s your opinion
Bron aint 2 no great player agrees with you. Lol you guys hate the fact that players dont agree with you. Its like revenge of the nerds
@@dominiquebrown2890 Tell that to KG, Tatum, Pierce, Ja, JJJ, Gilbert Arenas and several other player if we’re going off players logic cause clearly you can’t speak for yourself. Like I said if you disagree, that’s your opinion, but you don’t have your opinion. Clearly.
@@dominiquebrown2890 At this point, if you don’t have Lebron and MJ as your top two then you’re just either extremely biased or just not the brightest all together
@bbcpfghs who decided lebron was top 2? All the players that played against both in their primes say kobe is better. So, who were these people saying lebron is #2. Oh nvm i know it was the media, and then the fans followed what the media said.
@@dominiquebrown2890 So why the players I named feel the same way? Point is everyone has their own opinion on why they feel Lebron is Top 2. Like I said if you disagree, that’s your opinion.
AI CROSSED PRIME JORDAN… his opinion is valid.
AI opinion aint valid, but these fat dudes in gaming chairs have valid opinions. Smh
I had kobe at 3 before he passed. I still got Kobe at 3. The only thing that changed was 1 and 2.
Just think of how analysts talked about Kobe pre-2016. He was constantly in Top 5 conversations. Even super Bron fans of today, like Shannon Sharpe, had Kobe #2. There’s mountains of evidence of players, coaches, GMs, etc saying Kobe was the best in the game, the GOAT, top 3, etc. After 2016, the narrative became “is Kobe even Top 10”. I’ve personally never seen a Top 10 player’s reputation get diminished so quickly. Nowadays, it seems like anytime someone wants to compare a current players legacy to a legend (and say the player is better than a legend) they go straight for Kobe. I saw LeBron get thrust into the GOAT convo and Kobe fall out of people’s top 5 simultaneously in real-time. I think there was definitely a mission in the media. It’s clear these boys are too young to remember if they’re saying Kobe was never really talked about as the GOAT or GOAT candidate. The fact that bro said A.I. is a clown for what he said is wild.
Kobe is 6-16 vs LeBron
There are 3 acceptable answers to the GOAT debate Kareem, MJ, LeBron. The rest are just people’s favorite
I love this statement
Lebron isn't even top 5
Exactly. How do people forget about Kareem. My personal opinion is Magic belongs in that #3 conversation with Kareem. But it’s just crazy that we act like the 70s-80s didn’t happen. I understand the 60s because the game was so different. But in personally also considering Bill and Wilt up there before Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, and Steph.
I just think kobe came up in an era when it was rings over everything so when he got five at the time he was looked as top 3-5 with an opportunity to be the goat, but the way ppl think about basketball has changed drastically since kobe retired and it's been a huge detriment to his all time standing. For one the rise of analytics caused a huge focus on efficiency which (in comparison to other all time greats) kobe is not extremely efficient, making his high volume scoring seem less valuable. In addition after Bron won a ring in 16, people started focusing a lot more on context and degree of difficulty in championships. So the fact the shaq won 3 fmvps and was arguably the best player in the world during the 3 peat, while kobe was 2nd best player on the team diminishes the impact of those rings for a lot of ppl. The final nail in the coffin was curry winning in 22 as many (who didn't actually watch kobe play) were ready to put curry top 10 and kobe was the easiest guy to boot out of the top 10 for the above mentioned reasons.
Analytically speaking Kobe was more efficient then ray allen and klay Thompson
I just think Tim Duncan was better
Is Ray Allen the GOAT?@@Trxnszn
They vetoed a trade so he wouldn’t pass Mike 🐐 STERN DIDNT LET A TRADE GO THROUGH. People never talk about that
How old is sage? Bro claims to be a Kobe fan but said Kobe was never 2. Was his not watching basketball 2006-2011. It’s a reason Kobe chose 24. It was always Kobe & Jordan ! Whether Kobe was over iordan was the topic. The media would say “the best we seen besides Jordan” or the closest to Mike !! No one was saying 4-8.. what players besides Jordan was anyone puttin over Kobe? Y’all really be kids and tryna talk about “history” SMH
None of these guys are kobe fans they respect kobe but they're LeBron fans and we know LeBron fans hate kobe
Naaaah I’m 35 and a die hard fan. Kobe was never 2. If anything his legacy only improved with time because at the time he was seen as not being goat worthy because he was the Batman for his first 3 championships. It really started to change his last two championships but by that point Lebron was already playing and people were kind of moving on. So you might have had like a few years there. Also, people in the early 2000s still respected Kareem, Magic and bird and wouldn’t have put him above those guys.
@@joelman1989 they where talking about if kobe was better than mj back in 08 vs the celtics in the finals. if u where a die hard fan u wouldve known that
@@drue1209 never said I was a die hard Kobe fan. Though he’s in my top 5 favorite players for sure. I did say you might have had a few years there during his last two titles. But again I think no one serious about basketball was honestly saying Kobe is better than MJ lol. That’s a ridiculous statement since MJ was better in basically every category except the 3 point shot. But to be fair to Kobe no one is better than MJ. Although Lebron at least has a few categories he competes with or beats MJ. The problem with Kobe vs MJ is Kobe’s game was so similar it’s so easy to compare them and see MJ is better.
@joelman1989 what yall dont understand is that stats don't make you a better player. Everyone has different jobs to do on the court, plus everyone isn't the same height nor plays the same position nor has the same roles. If you watch kobe and mj. You can see kobe has more skills than him, which makes him a better player, but the rings make mj better because with his craft, he led his team to 6-0 while kobe was 5-2. Lebron has a basic game, and all his success comes from him his athletic abilities, not skills. That's why he struggles the end of the game or when great defenders on his because he can't beat them and he needs a pick to get a switch
The league got in the way of Kobe having a chance at six or seven with David Stern vetoing the CP3 trade. They needed him out the way so Bron could take over.
People are such haters they act like is didn’t happen like they really forgot 🤦🏽 THEY VETOED A WHOLE TRADE THIS WAS NEVER HEARD OF
@@dariusbattle9503he owned the pelicans at the time so it was his team
If Kobe got Chris Paul then ring number 6 would've happened for sure
@@Haezyyx bruh what does the commissioner of the nba care of the lakers get cp3 he was just on Jordan’s nuts. He “technically “ owned them bs
@@dariusbattle9503 he was the owner so he can veto any trade
Who’s the better SG? MJ there is no goat debate for Kobe.
So are you saying the Goat debate can only be with the best players at there position 🤔
@@dice1997no he’s saying if there’s someone clearly better at your own position, how can you be the greatest of all positions?
@@deanoss777 yes/no. I want to know how you comepare across eras,position,rules and style of play to end up with 1 player being the best at something. This has to be the dumbest debate ever. This debate often times tears one player down to prop another. We have 4 guys on this pod who honestly probably didn’t see MJ or Kobe prime but have an opinion about where he’s ranked. Also how arrogant do you have to be to think you would know better than the people who have competed against these guys. All these list are about who you like better not who is better. Career vs Better player often times are 2 different things. Basketball is about 2 things offense and defense and what player does those 2 things better relative to your position.
I love arguing with delusional kobe fans.
the only thing that people can argue againt kobe is literally mvps and anyone that wasnt 2 yo in that era knows the media and the league was against kobe and tried to get rid of him as the face of the league and give it to lebron cuz of his off court issues. not even talking about the cp3 veto. realistically kobe could have won 6/7 rings and multiple mvps without denver. i hate when ppl compare career and accolades and dont put context on it.
During 2008-2013 or 2014 there was definitely conversation about Kobe being top 2 all-time.
Some opionions are more based in objective truths than others.
I’ve heard people say after the 5th ring “he’s right behind Michael” but a lot of that was hype tbh being like MJ in playstyle, being a prolific scorer, being a Nike athlete etc. but in reality, he’s not top 5 looking at it away from the height of his stardom. Top 10, sure.
Been watching since 81. There are many reasons why kobe isn’t over lebron.
Who do u think is the Goat
@@alphadjalo1227 jordan.
@@alphadjalo1227not kobe☠️
Why exactly? I want to hear your reasons?
@@mayojarr6243 Nah I don’t even think Kobe is the Goat or better than lebron I just wanna know.
This logic about ppl who got beat by a potential GOAT have him as their GOAT is BS too. Most current NBA players still know who THE GOAT is and they didn't play a single game against him. GOAT is who your favorite player is??? Embarrassing. It is definitive going of MULTIPLE criterias. Yall take is laughable.
Call me an old head but i think it should be more than just numbers and analytics. Like people dont watch games they look up anayltics, how you play the game, style, mentality, moments matter a lot more to me than most. Kids these days be putting hardem over kobe and dwade but imo thats just disrespectful
Listen pause but when Omar got up he looked swole asf like he be in the gym overtime
12 all defensive teams with 9 first teams and 3 2nd team and we know offensively one of if not the greatest scorer of all times 🐐🐐🐐
He magically became better after passing, which is wild to me.
It doesn't make sense either...
Many people ranked him highly even before he passed. It’s not something that just happened after he passed
I can tell you people don't say hes greater cause he passed smh that's a dumbass take because kobe resume speaks for it self. People love to discredit Kobe
This is one of the most, “I never engaged in basketball discourse” takes out there.
If anything he has been underrated and when he passed this narrative came about from analysts like Nick Wright and people try to use it to say Kobe isn't even top 10.
Before he retired he was unanimously seen as top 10, while he was the best in the league he had every MJ comparison and was being ranked in the top 3-5 range; especially pre-injury.
@@RavensFanyes they do. How’s he’s the goat when he shoots 44% and 33% from 3.
@@kingjaydex7464exactly… that goofy don’t know basketball bro lmao all the all time greats always had Kobe higher too
Easily the corniest takes I've ever heard by Lil bill on the bottom left with the red headphones buddy wasn't in the show and it was going good then he comes in and talks about dicks and disrespect ai like bro stop 😂
Only reason why KOBE was never viewed as THE GOAT is because ppl knew who THE GOAT was and still is. Ppl weren't as desperate with KOBE as they are with their King. That's all.
No, because everyone knew that he was even behind Shaq lol
Kobe is 6-16 all time vs LeBron
Lebron peak is not better than Kobe’s peak…PERIOD
Facts
Why Kobe only have one mvp?
@@LSmoney215exactly 😭. Lebron at his peak was leading his team with 60+ wins
@@LSmoney215 because the mvp is people’s award and not based off who was really the best that season they flip the narrative so much for it
@@LSmoney215 cuz steve nash.
It’s 1:MJ 2:Lebron 3:Kareem 4: Magic and then everyone else period.
I have said it multiple times the actual goat is elective not subjective we elected mike in 94 and haven’t collectively as a basketball community given Kobe or Bron over 50% of the vote
Pointless debate LBJ is better than kobe
Niggas on this panel don’t know basketball… ALL THE ALL TIME GREATS say Kobe is better while people on this podcast that never hooped in they life talkin bout bron better 🤣🤣
Kobe is 6-16 all time vs LeBron
Ima have to disagree with Sage here because I vividly remember from 2016-2020 I heard no one say Kobe was top5 he was rarely in top 10 discussions. I can clearly remember everyone having Shaq above Kobe all time and Shaq was in the 6-9 range. But the second he died the amount of Kobe is better Lebron Kobe is top 3 was everywhere.
Just because you love kobe doesn't mean he's better than LeBron that's your opinion why don't you go after MJ?
I don’t think after Kobe’s prime was over anyone considered him the goat. And really by the time that great run he had from 2008 from 2010 where he won a league, MVP, and All-Star game, MVP, two NBA championships, two finals MVPs , Even when that started, he was still in his prime, but those were really I think the last three years of Kobe’s prime. He was still great the following year but if I’m talking about prime Kobe I think the year of 2010 was the last time he was in his absolute prime.
Now what is very annoying to me not just as a Kobe fan but just as someone who just wants everything to stay honest and doesn’t like to see anyone’s legacy unfairly tarnished. There has been a few people not a lot but people like Nick Wright have come out and said things like Kobe Bryant was never the best player in the league, same thing from Colin Cowherd.
Nick Wright was in high school in the 2000 so let’s just get that out of the way but Colin himself has stated back in the mid 2000s that Kobe was the greatest player in the world at the time. Stephen Smith stated several times Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world during the 2000. LeBron James stated in 2008 that Kobe Bryant was the best player in the world at that time.
So I can’t make the argument that Kobe is the goat, but can we at least stop with this narrative that he was never the best player in the league? I’m not talking about where anyone ranks all time or anything like that, but can we at least give the man that? he was the greatest player of the 2000’s.
If I meet, somebody and LeBron is in their top two, and they can sit there knowing damn well all the hell he had, being in a week, eastern conference, not being able to get the job done unless he’s damn near got an All-Star roster. If you can take all the final losses and everything else I just laid out and say that’s good enough to be in the top two then what Kobe did certainly qualifies for top five.
Brp Sage is fucking spoton anytime he talks about the rubberband effect after his death.
Maybe you goofies use GOAT to say your favorite player but the vast majority of us who actually know ball look at multiple factors and find out who's actually the best, and overall, it's Michael Jordan.
My favorite player ever is literally AI lol. In no universe, am I going to claim he's the GOAT just cause I like him. Some of us have access to UA-cam and know more about old players than current players.
My mom said Derick fisher is her goat🤦🏾♂️I almost cried
Kobe isnt better than lebron there really isnt a tangible argument for Kobe to be better. Just stuff about how kobe made you feel or mamaba mentality nonsese. Mamaba mentality is propoganda kobe quit in a game 7.
Kobe > LeBron
Kobe/Duncan > Lebron
Man called A.I a clown for no reason lol
Its revenge of the nerds. All these nerdy guys who werent cool now have youtube channels and resent the players and their opinions. These nerdy guys want to force their opinions.
@@dominiquebrown2890I promise u it is not that deep 😂
@ThisDude234 it's not that deep for you or me but for the media and these youtube guys it's alot of resentment.
@@dominiquebrown2890These UA-cam guys are just like you and I, man. Trust, they are not sweating basketball like that lmao. I'd say that goes for some people in the media, too.
@@ThisDude234 these youtube guys are nothing like me. I defer to what the professionals think.
Only young guys and casuals boosted Kobe higher when he passed. If you were actually watching Kobe his entire career then you’d know how great he was and would be in your top 5. For instance, Domo is only like 26, he wasn’t even born when Kobe was drafted and probably didn’t start watching & truly understanding the game until he was maybe he 12-13. I’m not saying that’s the case with Domo I’m just giving an example of his generation. If you never watched them live where you don’t know the outcome then you don’t really look at players of the past the same as you would players of your era
Wtf is wrong with Omar disrespecting AI for no reason?? I’m happy they checked him. You can’t discredit a legend’s opinions that played against these guys and expect the viewers to respect YOUR takes when you’re a 25yr old non athlete that just started watching the sport 12yrs ago
How can Kobe be number 2 if he could never get a FMVP with Shaq around. Prime Shaq > Prime Kobe.
Domo you my boy but stay off the weed you and sage kobe was called the goat
Kobe changed his Number to 24 becuz he was regarded as r the 4-10 greatest player? He was already considered as good as mj , he just needed to rings to match . Not fmvps, not MVPs, not dpoy.. just rings !!! Now LeBron fans wanna add all kind of other things into the discussion becuz bron fell short on rings. It’s about your game and how many rings you have. 2 basic standards.
Rings are a team accomplishment consisting of 15 players. Kobe is 6-16 all time vs LeBron
@@PHXNKVHXLIC you aren’t the brightest I see. Rings are a team award but LeBron is 6-16 vs Kobe? Kobe or the lakers ??😐
@@greatest515 Kobe. The Lakers team had different rosters. I never said LeBron was 16-6 vs the Lakers
Especially after Kobe won his 5th title he was looked at as #2 with the potential to be #1 because he was only 31. On Facebook and in the barbershop we were discussing Kobe vs Jordan. ESPN stole the argument about 6 years later to make it Lebron vs Jordan which is a terrible argument
Better than Kobe vs Jordan imo
How is lebron vs mj a terrible argument but Kobe vs mj a great one kobe and mj are basically the same player but mj is just better all around and more accomplished it’s not even a debate
@@tacogaming1415 based off playing style they played the same position and their global impact on the game yes it’s a great argument. And yes MJ better. Lebron skill wise and impact is more comparable to magic. There really isn’t a good case or argument that isn’t ridiculous to compare Lebron to MJ
@@jeroandally7671 lebron was magic and Jordan in one.
@@Ghost-rb6cw I mean I know that’s what espn says but I disagree, there’s no aspect of lebrons game that’s remotely similar to Jordan
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Curry
KD
Respectful list to a degree. KD and Curry in the Top 10 is questionable.
There’s never been a time where anyone was realistically arguing Kobe vs Jordan. Y’all gotta let it go.
It was especially when he was making the finals without shaq
I wonder how many dislikes this comment got
@@mahleeky zero. Since you asked 😂
@@willrich7209 it never was. Ever.
Kobe my favorite player by far. Lebron still clears
5:38 Yes.
WHY DO YOUNGUYS ASSUME YOUNG PLAYERS HAVE NO ACCESS TO WATCHING 80s, 90s, and early 00s player footage? Like an 20 year old cant study moves from the greats before them and realize how great they werevto determine them as goats. My couson 17 WR rightnow he studieD Randy moss and Andre johnson his mouth dropped to the ground he called randy moss tge goaT WR.
LeBron has better numbers in almost every category and way more individual accolades. He's far above Kobe
Won less by playing more than Kobe
@@egrassa1480 he lead his team to more championships before he matched Kobe's championships
@@Rucker1980 still less rings, worse defensive player too, worse footwork, worse shooter, played in baby conference hence 8 in a row finals
@@egrassa1480 still a better shooter, scorer, passer and rebounder. And he didn't blow a 3-1 while quitting in game 7. If more rings makes Kobe better then the best player in the past 3 decades is Robert Horry
Kobe > Lebron... there's an intentional effort to undermine Kobe's greatness. Lebron doesn't have a third of the skills Kobe does. No doubt, Lebron is great but he's not better than the Black Mamba!
Y’all have GOT to stop saying “type shit.” Y’all say it like every other sentence, especially Solz
No.
Yal are crazy ! Kobe was widely considered the best in his era and it wasnt close . You guys too young to be talking about this topic
On Paper (meaning if you only look at his accolades and stats) Lebron is the Goat.
But the actual historical context, he’s 2 or 3.
Kobe on paper…is at top 15-20 player. In the actual context of his career, 6-7
The goat convo has always been a waste of air to kill time. Many players in many aspects can fit the bill, or have something someone doesn't. It comes down to simple bias of who you like most; dick suck with no real answer eod
lebron had the better career but kobe was the better baskatball player.. thats something u 4 will never understand it seems. u think career stats is > Basketball SKILLZ.... but u have just look at kobe how he was skilled in 1 vs 1 compared to lebrons stiff moves... and then tell me again lebron is better than kobe... no way... jordan is different discussion. he had the stats and the skill...but lebron? stats only
When people say people didn't have kobe top 3 before he died let's me know fully they started watching ball after 2017
I’ve watched ball since 02 and I know Kobe is not even top 5, people over hype him because of his play style and mentality plus it helps he played for the most popular team for 20 years
@SESHTILWEREST 1. I don't believe you've been watching that long
2. All players who played against both picks kobe over LeBron. Do I believe nba players or some 19y/o LeBron fan on UA-cam
3. After kobe won in 09 talks was starting and after he won in 10 people all over the world was placing kobe as their goat/top2 or 3
@@melgoat I’ve been watching for 20 years. And not all the players choose Kobe, what are you smoking? Plus everyone knows it’s rare for players to give Bron his props when he’s still in the league.
Sidney Moncreif is the goat
Jordan is my favorite player and I’ve always had Kobe second to Jordan even because he’s my 2nd favorite player even before he passed away And for y’all to say that no one was ever the consensus goat. That’s a lie Jordan was and still is because the majority of people always votes him number one on every major sport poll for the past 20+ years 🐐💯
You going by sports polls is funny lol Kobe is 6-16 all time vs LeBron, the worst against every star Kobe ever faced
@@PHXNKVHXLIC NBA players rank Kobe very high, because they don’t judge him the way fans do because they actually played against him and seen him up close in person the fans are just going by not being the man the first 3 rings and his shooting percentage and him only having 1 MVP
What's YOUR goat is different from what's THE goat. But I still think you guys are "trapped in the moment" when you dismiss a player like Wilt Chamberland.
Lebron mj kareem magic kobe Duncan curry shaq hakeem wilt/bird
Kobe was viewed as an inefficient ball hog who scored a lot of points, but also won a lot of rings. Who also has the most missed shots. He was not in the actual GOAT discussion until his passing.
To a lot of people he entered that discussion after what he did in 2010…
Yeah you definitely didnt actually watch him play
Yeah you didn’t see Kobe choke a finals vs the Pistons being selfish trying to win MVP
@SESHTILWEREST okay every great has bad series.... 2011 *cough cough*
Yall not finna do this to my favorite player like this kobe him and is my goat fytb
So many reasons why Kobe is over lebron
Name them
@@tacogaming1415scoring, defense, winning, intangibles, skills
@dominiquebrown2890 lol what? LeBron head to head was 16-6 vs Kobe.
LeBron has score more points and unlike Kobe immediately was good in the nba. LeBron is a better passer and defender than Kobe and he's a better three point shooter. LeBron never asked for a trade, never had off court issues, and was the best player on ever single championship team he was on. LeBron also never quit mid game nor did he miss the playoffs in his prime like Kobe.
@ubadman1 kobe had a better head to head record vs jordan that doesnt mean he's better. Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter? Bruh the man can barely make freethrows. Also, lebron didn't have to request a trade when he literally has his entire team traded year after year. And he definitely wasn't a better defender. That is why he always needed a dedicated wing defender to guard the opposing teams best player. Shane battier, iman shumpert, and the list goes on. Kobe was always the best defender on his team.
@ubadman1 he never missed the playoffs in the weak east. The teams that swept lebron in the finals is the team kobe had to beat to get to the finals. Kobe never said lebron was the best player in the league. Lebron admitted kobe was the best player.
Kobe top 2
bron can't shoot.
Lebron is never a Top 2. Yall crazy as hell 🤦♂️
Top 3 at the least