Mel here. I finally got around to watching this video. I'm pleased that Murad's work with me led to his translation. That's kind of cool. I think this growing team online are collectively beginning to make a difference. Allons-y!
Oh la la!! The Arab & the Frenchman doesn't get better than this so as a tribute to you both I had Croissant with qahwa( coffee in arabic) I can't wait for St Murads masterpiece.I have started reading your book Monsieur Odon and it seems interesting.Merci beaucoup Monsieur for bringing St Murad to your channel.Keep up the good work...Ameen.
@@thegreatsecretofislam i will definitely do that! I am sharing all the claims that can be backed up by evidence, with people in my country that have a bigger voice than my self. I think the Avalanche has started here aswell🙏
@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, take the Quranic challenge. Issue one Chapter or one single verse to destroy it....had you learn Arabic poetry and rhetoric, you ll understand the challenge. Since you are a simple Business Associate degree, you can't grasp the difficulties of the composition.
Yes that was very interesting. Birds eye view of the entire piece suggests Islam was an early, heretical Jewish-Christian sect that was later co-opted by Arabic warlords with a ruling agenda.
It seems to me, based on a thematic study, that the Qur'an has many authors, but that it is a collection of different corpuses. For example, the 'chapters' that begin with the 'mysterious letters' (i.e. _alif, lam, mim_ ) belong together. Then there are many 'chapters' which seem to share pagan formulations (i.e. "By the Sun," "By the Moon," or "By the mountain," etc). And, yes, there are chapters that are poetic, but also 'random' 'chapters' (i.e. C. 111). The Qur'an really does appear to be a collection of books, which themselves may have been read independently before being bundled together as a single book.
Spot on, a very easy conclusion to make when you just read the text as it is. Different Arabic traditions lumped together. Perhaps the authors were wiped out during those violent years after Mohammed's death in the early 7th century.
@@qandachristian7614 The composition of the Qur'an is very complex, not because it is well written (it really is not!), but because it appears to have been fed through a paper shredder and reassembled to make it even less coherent. And then it may have gone through at least one stage of redaction before the text was fixed. Historians tell us that Arabia had mostly abandoned paganism and adopted monotheism in the 4th and 5th Centuries (thanks to Christian missionaries from Syria and Jewish influence in Yemen) over one hundred years before the time of Muhammad. It's quite possible that much of the material incorporated into the Qur'an originates from that time. Both the Qur'an and hadith literature tell us that Muhammad had a Book of Allah in his lifetime (Q. 15:87 says Muhammad has the whole Qur'an - despite C. 9 being traditionally believed to be the final chapter). But the Qur'an we read today is acknowledged to have been compiled after the time of Muhammad (Q. 53:5-17 speaks of Muhammad in the past tense), either in the time of Abu Bakr or Uthman; although the Qur'an we read today was probably canonised by Al Hajjaj under Abd al Malik, c. 705 CE. So, the 'Meccan' and 'Madinan' sections of the Qur'an may be the result of different redactors rather than different authors, or perhaps the later addition of extra material.
My conclusion also. I think Abd al-Malik did a compiling of religious scriptures from the various Arab factions he submitted under his rule. He had the various texts mixed and intertwined so that no faction could take only one part of the final book (the part of their contribution). This is what I explain with detail in my book
@@OdonLafontaine Ah! Yes, mixing texts makes sense now! This appears to have occurred in the _Torah_ ,between Elohists and Yahwehists (a.k.a. the Documentary hypothesis, which forms the basis of my current understanding of Qur'an composition). Of course most Arabs in Syria and Iraq were Christian and Jewish, it seems. Hence, the inclusion of so much Biblical material in the Qur'an. The Qur'an was an attempt in syncretism between the religions (Q. 3:64).
May the Lord God keep you both safe, may his mercy and blessing always remain on you both because you may not realise He is using you both to help expose the thruth for his glory...
What will make it hard to refute Murad's work is its systematic grounding in Arabic linguistics. I've always sensed something was fishy about the Qur'an in English translation. Now I can know. We owe a great debt to Murad, partly for his skill set, but mostly for his courage and integrity.
Sir kindly add the latest inscriptions as well ..... Eg. one which says that the masjid al haram was made later in 78 AH ie around 698 AD Also i have a theory .... It seems like the black stone was attached to the kaaba by abd al malik ..... As he wanted to unify the arabs ..... Also, One thing that i noticed ..... Whats that bulb like thing on abd al malik's coin in the back side on top of the rod ... Is it black stone ?
Big fan of all of you. Just want to ask Murad about the Birmingham folio. Does Murad think that the quran was written by the 2 authors at the same time period? The folio was dated to around the time Muhammad was believed to have been preaching. Was there a redactor or interpolator? What are your thoughts on Red Judaism that Muhammad was ibn Qabisah?
I wrote an article about the Birmingham folio at the time. Although it is in French, you can use Google Translate to read it: www.eecho.fr/coran-de-birmingham-datant-de-mahomet-fausse-annonce/ Regarding the "historical Muhammad," it's a wild goose chase. There's no point in trying to find him, as those who might have borne the title "mhmd" around 620-640 CE are very different from the concept of "Muhammad." Muhammad, as the prophet of Islam, is a fictional character.
I can tell you from what was i able to notice, with knowledge of hebrew and aramaic, both in biblical and talmudic application, this can all be taken into the next level
Thanks I wonder if later this concordance would be used to work backwards into non Arabic roots of words. And/or even a non SIN commentary covering for example earliest primary document date, so called black Koran, and possible break points where bits may have been covered....
Yes, that would be a second step. First step is Murad's translation based on Arabic only. It is essential, even though we are all impatient to go beyond: - identifying words that were originally non Arabic (and became Arabic because they are in the Quran) - further understanding how the Quran was made (interpolations, compiling and editing process) - cross-referencing the many studies on the historical / geographical / religious contexts etc.
There's a lot of Islamic experts who have popped up since Bernard Lewis set up the REVISIONIST SCHOOL OF ISLAMIC STUDIES, which has no scholar speaking Arabic nor having Islamic studies qualification.
There has been a lot of cringe among Muslim militants since the REVISIONIST SCHOOL OF ISLAMIC STUDIES shattered the Islamic narrative, leaving them completely unable to counter it.
@thegreatsecretofislam This is just amazing ! So white Christian westerners with colonial thinking singlehandedly destroyed Islam, without knowing Arabic nor any Islamic teaching, you people are White Christian evangelist genius...the whole Muslim world will convert based on your research or not.
@thegreatsecretofislam why are you removing my comments ? A western colonialism black op rather than a scholarly project, is n it ? You wonder why people are not taking you seriously !
@thegreatsecretofislam The Revisionist School was started by the British Secret Services...yourself are an Islamophobic individual who has expressed hatred for Islam and the prophet of Islam, and you have promoted mass conversion of Muslims to your religion, Roman Catholicism; so my question is, why should we trust your so called "scholarship?"
What you said about the word 'rajm' leads me to an Islamic tradition that is common in Indonesia. where a ghost or evil spirit (in a person's house or body) is controlled by a Muslim "expert" (In the practices of exorcism). These spirits can be pushed, pulled (controlled), even shouted and tortured. Is this the original meaning you intended, brother Murad?? I beg your confirmation on this, please!.
As Wendell Berry said: "If you are a con artist, the ignorance or innocence of others is your business. Only the vilest depravity takes advantage and makes business of the weakness of others as."
There is (or used to be) a delicacy in France: aged game meat (different from dry aged) almost to the point of decomposition. Supposed to be particularly delicious with game birds (pheasant). Never tasted it.
What really defies the imagination is that in few years a bunch of Christian apologetics have been singlehandedly been able to "expose" Islam, without even knowing Arabic nor have they gotten any degree in Islamic studies; things that millions of Muslim scholars, who have memorized the Quran, have not been able to achieve after 14 centuries..
@@Aladin-r8t ad personam argument once again. Such a miserable trolling. Besides, Muslim scholars could never produce such work on Islam’s origins because they are constrained from developing a truly critical perspective on it. They are not allowed "haram" thoughts.
@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, I asked you for a debate and you refused. Who is a troll then ? In 8 years of Islam bashing, you debated once with a Muslim individual. Yet you victimize and insult Muslims and their prophet! You are a Christian missionary, and nothing else. You can't handle facts.
@@Aladin-r8t If you want to debate me, present some historical arguments first. None are to be found in the hundreds of commentaries you’ve written-only ad hominem attacks and vile rhetoric.
@thegreatsecretofislam your problem is you demand your opponent to achieve what you refuse to achieve yourself : Objectivity and impartiality. You build your "theory" on an assumption, i.e., Judeo-Nazarean derivation from Jerusalem to Mecca. What is your historical proof?
@@Aladin-r8t The proof is the Quranic text, confirmed by external sources (non Muslim sources from the 7th cent., and critical examination of the Muslim sources). I wrote a book detailing all this. What's your PRECISE argument then?
if the author of the qur'an is sad/tragic and is naming humans as 'forgetful' this is a clear description of lucifer and his angels. They were expelled from heaven, luzifer is hating and deceiving humans for that reason..till this day.
@thegreatsecretofislam do you think it is fair that Bible scholars like Christine Haynes, Bart Ehrman and many othera had to graduate specifically in Theology and then learn Greek, Hebrew and Latin before calling themselves "Biblical expert" and on the other hand, the REVISIONIST SCHOOL has nobody graduating in Islamic studies, nor do they know Arabic language. .
There's no possibility of a debate with you, even a regular discussion since you behave like a senseless troll. You never answer any question; you never stay on a same topic; you always change the subject; you never develop any argument other than ad personam.
@thegreatsecretofislam you re not a scholar; merely a Catholic extremist; always blaming the others for your lack of logic. In 8 years you debated once with a Muslim person. Keep your western orientalism nonsense.
@thegreatsecretofislam you ve been only mocking Islam and the prophet of Islam while plotting to "convert" Muslims to Christianity. While the French population is practicing Catholic at 5%....
christians are not referred to as mushrikeen, they are referred to as Nasreen in the quran (nasreen= Nazareth and also Victors as Jesus resurrected and was of the victors)
@@Aladin-r8t The man-made idea of the Islamic God is in its essence idolatry, due to it only existing as a concept in the minds of men. Read The Crucified God by Jurgen Moltmann to better understand my comment.
For Muslims who do not have a strong holistic knowledge of the contents of the Quran, be careful that you do not become a blind follower. He is an apostate and all Muslims should know what the Quran says about following people like him.
I do not remember this but you surely are right (please point me the exact moment in our discussion). As I detailed in my book, I think the "Night Journey" verses (17,1-2) are an adaptation of ancient Jewish tradition about Moses' Night Journey from Mount Sinai (or from Egypt) to Jerusalem.
@@thegreatsecretofislam I also think it has a Zoroastrian touch .... Not in the Quran though but in the night journey story. If all what you present is taken to be true ..... One thing that comes to my mind is that the description of masjid al haram is very similar to temple Mount however masjid al aqsa is the demolished sanctuary so it has to be the Temple Mount ..... But if we see closely Petra has the same characteristics as that of masjid al haram .... It seems like masjid al haram has been built time and again in locations which fit this narrative and then finally shifted to Mecca .... To me it seems that masjid al haram has to be a sanctuary that has been devoted to the temple Mount. And thus the cube shaped Kaaba became devoted sanctuary for judao nazarenes and I'm not sure on this but for the Arabs it became the 1st religion of abraham relating to the breaking of idols etc. i.e. what sabeans used to follow ..... And if you read you'll find that they were following the Hajj tradition since 8th century BC which is identical to that of muslims.
Odon, can you name me one single scholar of your entourage (the REVISIONIST school ) who has any ACADEMIC COLLEGE degree in ISLAMIC STUDIES & arabic language ? Merci beaucoup ! شكرآ جزيلا Viele Danke !
@thegreatsecretofislam Robert G. Hoyland (born 1966) is a historian, specializing in the medieval history of the Middle East. He was a student of historian Patricia Crone ... You won't never change will you ? Vous êtes indécrottable !
@@Aladin-r8t Hoyland's Phd thesis is right in the field of Islamic studies: "Seeing Islam as others saw it". Thereafter, he taught as professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University. What's your point? What's the point of your senseless trolling?
Dr Bart Ehrman has written a book about the fact that there's no notion nor mention of HELL NOR HEAVEN in the Bible ...but you need to read the original versions of the Bible....1st, how come the Quran is full of HELL & PARADISE (Arabic word) if it supposedely took it as reference from the Bible ? 2nd, how come, all you CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS lack to study your own Bible discrepancies prior to reading the TRANSLATED QURAN ?
Lies, again. There are mentions of "paradise" (the word "garden" "pardēs" in aramaic, as in Luke 23,43) and hell ("Gehenna", the "valley of Hinnom" in Jerusalem, which became the word Gehenna, meaning "hell," as in Matthew 5:22). Mostly, the Bible refers to "Sheol," the place where the dead dwell. The Jewish and Christian Aramaic word Gehenna was incorporated into the Quran as Jahannam (which is not originally an Arabic word), indicating that the Quran's composition was influenced by Aramaic-speaking Christians (and/or Jews)-another clue pointing to the influence of the Judeo-Nazarenes. cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=prds+N&cits=all cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=gyhn%29+N&cits=all Bart Ehrman is a respected scholar, though I don’t agree with all his theories. However, he would certainly never claim something as ridiculous as the Bible having no mention of hell or heaven. I strongly suspect you just made that up.
@thegreatsecretofislam you are just an i.d.i.o.t (le mot est laché) ; Prof Ehrman wrote an academic book based on the OT & NT where he studied them in their original languages (Aramaic-Hebrew; Greek) prends en de la graine ! And he concluded that the original version NOT THE ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION, contains nothing about the Hereafter, and the word Gehenom is a valley north of Jerusalem, as well as Eden is on Earth. You just prove to the public that you re not a scholar but a c.r.e.t.i.n. for God's sake, LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE & QURAN if you want to open your mouth.
@thegreatsecretofislam And the original Tanakh was not even written in Hebrew; the Hebrew version was composed in the 9th AD by a scholar of my tribe in my city ! Do a dialogue on it and I shall school you on this. Also I have the Sabatean version.. Hebrew is a Canaanite dialect / Genesis.. you haven't even scratched the surface. Genius ! Avec un DEUG Commercial.
@thegreatsecretofislam @thegreatsecretofislam you are just an i.d.i.o.t (le mot est laché) ; Prof Ehrman wrote an academic book based on the OT & NT where he studied them in their original languages (Aramaic-Hebrew; Greek) prends en de la graine ! And he concluded that the original version NOT THE ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION, contains nothing about the Hereafter, and the word Gehenom is a valley north of Jerusalem, as well as Eden is on Earth. You just prove to the public that you re not a scholar but a c.r.e.t.i.n. for God's sake, LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE & QURAN if you want to open your mouth.
@thegreatsecretofislam you call me a liar ? You didnt even vetcmy information???? You are a lunatic. Prof Bart Ehrman book can easily found online and therefore you are an idiot for insulting me over an INTELLECTUAL DEBAT. You re not fit to exchange with your opponents.
@thegreatsecretofislam every muslim is a hard-core, per your Christian extremist standard. Thats why you try to convert them to trinitarian cult ? There's less than 5% practicing Christians in France (Abbé Rioult).
Bernard Werber says " the world is divided into two categories: those who read books and those who listen to those who have read books." … Don’t just listen to videos. Go to the text!... especially those read by some "dissidents" in front of a camera, distorting it! Many of those who appear in videos, and read books, tamper with the texts, or add more. Bernard Werber dit « le monde se divise en deux catégories: ceux qui lisent des livres et ceux qui écoutent ceux qui ont lu des livres. » … Ne vous limitez pas à écouter des videos. Allez au texte !...surtout à ceux que lisent certains « dissidents » devant une caméra, en le déformant ! Beaucoup de ceux qui s'affichent dans des videos, et nous lisent des livres, en traficotent les textes, ou en rajoutent.
The Quran was not revealed as a "book" but as an oral transmission. It is only when the memorizers started to die off that it was composed (7 Huruf) and compiled (Qoreish accent). The ponctuation was added by Al Hadjad Ibn Yossef, on the Arabic Abjad as a whole, not just on the Quran. So, according to your logic, how come only the Quran was affected and not the other manuscripts? Your logic is totally lacking historical scutiny and serious facts.
@thegreatsecretofislam it's been over 10 years that you are translating Jay Smith nonsense without any cross-examination. Again, I challenge you to debate with any Muslim scholar on your accusation "the Quran was not revealed". Put up ot shut up !
@@Aladin-r8t Liar. My work is not about translating Jay Smith. As for the Quran being a mere human text, that emerged from the compiling and editing of former texts, preaching instructions, on the fly notes from preaching sessions, adaptations from Syriac hymns, prayer and apocalyptics, and other stuff, read my book. You'll find every evidence and source. And I guess this is why no Muslim scholar would dare to engage in debate on this topic. He would have to much to lose, and nothing to answer.
@thegreatsecretofislam @thegreatsecretofislam So everybody tyat refuses your nonsense is a "liar" ? You are not a subject exoert. You are an apologetic Catholic. As example in your "Le Secret de l'Islam" you state that Abraham was a "Jew." this is a major mistake. You have no knowledge of the subject but only opinions. For you Islam is wrong and let's bring its detractor; this is not a scientifical thinking but a subjective opinion.
@thegreatsecretofislam there's 02 Tabari, you already made this mistake when you took the initiative to reproduce the shaky theory of Degallez; it is a theory based on assumption : The Judeo-Nazarean to which no logic was coroboring.
Who? What scholar is proficient in the field of scientific historical studies on early islam? Why don't' they take part in the academic debate, publish scientific articles and so? Because they do not abide by the scientific method.
@@Aladin-r8t You are so full of crap... What do these long time dead people have to do with the ongoing scientific research movement on Islam's origins
@thegreatsecretofislam Islam origin ? Start learning Arabic and try to learn by getting at least a BSc in Islamic studies. There's a lot of French Arabic language experts and Islamologue; none has this childish information of yours. You re not an intellectual but an executioner translating papers from Christian apologetics like David Wood or Jay Smith; also, Gallez, who has no Islamic study diploma; I know him personally, and he graduated in NT Theology. You pretend to use "Science" and "Objectivity" as a commercial lie. Your attitude towards anybody challenging you reveal your dark mentality.
طرح غوستاف لوبون مقارنة بين تاريخية محمد وتاريخية يسوع فقال «نعرف ما فيه الكفاية عن حياة محمد ، أما حياة المسيح فمجهولة تقريبًا ، وإنك لن تطمع أن تبحث عن حياته في الأناجيل» -حياة الحقائق؛ غوستاف لوبون، ص 62
@thegreatsecretofislam you are an ignorant. He wrote "La Civilisation des Arsbes", which is until today a historical reference. He presented all the documentation that the Arabs brought back the Jews to Palestine and the Christian Coptic Church to Egypt after both were expelled and banned by the Byzantine Christians. Your "contemporary" evidences are all from the "Bernard Lewis REVISIONIST school of Zionism brainwashing." Even Wikipedia states that nobody has taken seriously this REVISIONIST school which is a Western Orientalism think tank. None of this group of "scholars' know Arabic language nor have they any Islamology degree.
Why don't "those who have knowledge"publish books and articles to prove it, as is customary when dealing with science and reason? Could it be that they're afraid their so-called expertise would be exposed as a fraud?
@@thegreatsecretofislam it is already 🤣u have many many books which even debunked all your nonsense, you are just scared to read them and educate yourself, you are scared of truth stop embarrassing yourself, your nonsense is not even worth to be popular but if it gets it will be automatically bringed down
Prof Jacques Berque was an "Arabist"; he grew up in Algeria and knew perfectly Arabic which he taught in College....he spent 16 years to compose a translation of the Quran; then he spent 9 years to add an updated version...and he doesn't say what some Arab Christian bozzos are saying.
@thegreatsecretofislam your problem is called subjectivity. You try hard to find mistakes and when you can't find any, you invent them. Vous êtes trop à charge.
@thegreatsecretofislam there's no "narrative" in the TAFSEER ; You mix with Hadith. You asked about contemporaries TAFSEER : Sayed Qutb, and Sharawi, I think there's also one by Al Ghazali.
@@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, you should work on your lack of objectivity. All your logic is selective. You are a Catholic extremist who talks openly about converting Muslims (il faut les évangeliser) while complaining about Muslim Terrorism....you lost your compass!
Let me ask you this : Why you re not sensing threat when the Messiah is being mocked and Christianity values attacked at the JO ? Althought all the Muslims are denouncing it !
A threat to what? The building of Christianity as a political entity? This is not what Christianity is about. The only thing that this mocking did: it showed wokes and progressives have nothing but hatred towards Christianity (contrary to Islam). They hate Christianity because it shows what they are: evil.
Odon Lafontaine. You are French and 5% of the French population is practicing Christianity (Abbé Rioult)....yet you talked openly about COVERTING MUSLIMS (évangelisation)...how can you reconcile this discrepancy?
@thegreatsecretofislam so your Churches are falling and burning, no attendees, completely empty, but your only passion is to convert Muslins. I was only sent to rescue the lost sheeps of Israel.. .dixit Jesus. You don't even know your religion.
@thegreatsecretofislam why do you have to attack Prophet Mohamed SAS ? On n'attrape pas les mouches avec du vinaigre ! You are entering a very serious subject wearing your "gros sabots". Do a video with me with a moderator. Your problem is you keep attacking Islam within your groupies circle. Submit your "theories" to scrutiny; Al Fadel, Qoreishi and many other ex-muslims have done it; instead of bringing us this Murad who is affraid to reveal his "identity"....you re just doing propaganda since 10 years for commercial reason I suppose.
Odon, you self proclaimed yourself an Islamic scholar, you only debated once with a Muslim, you have no formal training nor academic in the subject, you used a theological thesis written by a priest with no training except in the Bible, you promote ex-muslim / Freemasons / Christian Arabs to smear Islam and when confronted to opposition, you turn to insults and name calling!
Which one is the preserved one? there are 37 different quranzz The Qur'an is simply a collection of previously known stories knocking about at the time bundled together to justify expansionist aims of a bunch of warlords such as Uthman.
@@martinjackman2943 u are obviously ignorant about the process of compelling of koran, if u want to learn it than investigate from Islamic sources not from islamophobic sources !! Not forget to read a books called (forged) & ( the story behind who changed the bibel and why ) written by Bart ehrman ,may be will help u to find endless corrupted sentences in bibel if u are Cristian!! If u a cow worshiper , sorry I can not help u more
طرح غوستاف لوبون مقارنة بين تاريخية محمد وتاريخية يسوع فقال «نعرف ما فيه الكفاية عن حياة محمد ، أما حياة المسيح فمجهولة تقريبًا ، وإنك لن تطمع أن تبحث عن حياته في الأناجيل» -حياة الحقائق؛ غوستاف لوبون، ص 62 ويؤكد هذه المقارنة المستشرق بودلي الذي خالط البدو العرب سبع سنين وألف كتاب «حياة محمد» «لا نعرف إلا شذرات عن حياة المسيح، أما في سيرة محمد فنعرف الشيء الكثير، ونجد التاريخ بدل الظلال والغموض»[8]، كما أكد أرنولد توينبي المؤرخ الشهير الفكرة ذاتها ظهرت في سبعينيات القرن العشرين مدرسة استشراقية متطرفة تعادي المصادر التاريخية الإسلامية، ونتائج هذه المدرسة متضاربة رغم انطلاقها من افتراضات مشتركة. وهي تعارض أي مصادر تاريخية تناولت سيرة محمد، حتى وإن كتبها غير المسلمين، حين تتوافق مع المصادر التاريخية الإسلامية التي تناولت الوجود التاريخي لمحمد، وذهب بعض المستشرقين المتطرفين من أتباع هذه المدرسة من شدة عدائهم لمحمد إلى إنكار الآثار التاريخية التي خلفها في مسقط رأسه مكة المكرمة ومدينته المدينة المنورة وبقية أنحاء الجزيرة العربية، من خلال فرضية تنكر وجود مكة والمدينة ثم اختلقوا فرضية أخرى ادعوا من خلالها أن مكة المكرمة والمدينة المنورة بل والحجاز أيضًا ليست هي مكة والمدينة والحجاز وأن مكة والمدينة والحجاز خارج حدود شبه الجزيرة العربية، وتضمنت فرضيات هؤلاء المستشرقين إنكارا لوجود قريش وإنكارا للفتوحات التي قادها أصحاب محمد من الجزيرة العربية، وإنكارا للقرآن بوصفة رسالة محمد. خلفت فرضيات هذه المدرسة الاستشراقية سيلا من الانتقادات من المستشرقين وعلماء الغرب أنفسهم بسبب ركاكة تلك الفرضيات التي اختلق أصحابها فجوات تاريخية لدعم ادعاءاتهم. أقدم مصدر إسلامي للمعلومات عن حياة محمد، هو القرآن ويعتبر وثيقة تاريخية، وفيه ذكر اسمه ومعلومات شخصية مثل حواراته وغزواته فذكرت معركة بدر وأحد والخندق وتفاصيلها، وذكر أهل بيته بما فيه ذكر حادثة مقاطعته لزوجاته وتخيريهن بين العيش الزاهد معه أو الطلاق، وقصة طلاق زينب من زيد وزواجه لاحقًا بها، وموقف المستشرقين الجدد متناقض من هذه الحادثة، فهم يثقون بذكر القرآن لهذه الحادثة ويبنون طعنًا أخلاقيًا عليها وفق تصور سلبي لمجرياتها، ثم ينكرون تاريخية القرآن وتاريخية محمد بعد ذلك، وفي القرآن ذكر للأسئلة التي طرحت عليه وسميت سورة باسم «المجادلة» في قصة امرأة وشكواها.[3][4] النص التالي في الأهمية هو الحديث النبوي، ثم السيرة النبوية والذي دون في الأعمال التاريخية للكتاب من القرن الثالث والرابع من العصر الإسلامي (حوالي 800-1000 بعد الميلاد).
If the oldest source of information for the life of Muhammad is the Quran, how come every mention of him (and that of Ahmad) are interpolations? Why the need to add verses about Muhammad in the Quranic text? Maybe because the text wasn't about him before Abd al-Malik and his successors tampered with it.
@thegreatsecretofislam Nonsense ! The Quran mentions Moses some 79 times, Virgin Mary 27 times, Jesus 25 times and only 4 times Mohamed....so you are a Google Scholar ?
@@Aladin-r8t You're off topic. The issue at stake here is that avery Muhammad mention in the Quran was not in the original texts. All have been added (interpolations) later, most probably around and after Abd al-Malik.
@@Aladin-r8t MBA from France's second major business school. Highly competitive recruitment. It's much better than anything your "illiterate prophet" was ever able to achieve.
@thegreatsecretofislam last time I checked your Bio, it said "DEUG COMMERCIAL"...You need to update it then. It's been over 10 years you ve been spending your sad existence attacking Islam. First of all, you should stop AD HOMINEM towards people who don't agree with you. Can you ?
@@Aladin-r8tlike yeah😂 this is Chanel and Chanel like this are just embarrassing 😂 trying anything just to go against the truth, this is all payed up just to lie and bark, inshaaAllah they will see
Mel here. I finally got around to watching this video. I'm pleased that Murad's work with me led to his translation. That's kind of cool. I think this growing team online are collectively beginning to make a difference. Allons-y!
👍
So happy St Murad is chatting to more UA-camrs. Keep up the good work gents.
Oh la la!! The Arab & the Frenchman doesn't get better than this so as a tribute to you both I had Croissant with qahwa( coffee in arabic) I can't wait for St Murads masterpiece.I have started reading your book Monsieur Odon and it seems interesting.Merci beaucoup Monsieur for bringing St Murad to your channel.Keep up the good work...Ameen.
Café Croissant, a French classic!
Im so glad Mel (Islamic Origins) opens the door for Saint Murad to start this journey... Big Thanks to Mel
Mel's channel and Mel (and Murad)'s work opened many eyes.
@@thegreatsecretofislam Yeah my mind have been blown up. This is one of the most important works of the 21 century
@@HH-xw4hr Have a go at my book then, you're in for a treat. The pdf version is free on my website.
@@thegreatsecretofislam i will definitely do that! I am sharing all the claims that can be backed up by evidence, with people in my country that have a bigger voice than my self. I think the Avalanche has started here aswell🙏
@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, take the Quranic challenge. Issue one Chapter or one single verse to destroy it....had you learn Arabic poetry and rhetoric, you ll understand the challenge. Since you are a simple Business Associate degree, you can't grasp the difficulties of the composition.
A fantastic collaboration. Really liked the section about the Judaizers. Very interesting.
Yes that was very interesting. Birds eye view of the entire piece suggests Islam was an early, heretical Jewish-Christian sect that was later co-opted by Arabic warlords with a ruling agenda.
Hi Odon, and Murad 🙏🏻🙏🏻❤from🇮🇳
Please share these English videos and let andhbhakts support the real heroes .. not copy paste like Adam and company
@@peaceorpieces6461 well man most people won't get it they bring it in their languages what they understand
Murad, master of Arabic, hebrew Aramaic, english, his translation of quraan in English has set aside ( SIN ) translation❤❤
@@maryjemyfreeman7639 where can we find it ?
Very educating discussion, Gentleman, Thank you!
I'm an Arab speaker and ex-Muslim, so I have read the Quran. I love what Saint Murad is doing, he is actually spot-on with his translation.
what do you think of the reading of the Quran I propose?
What's in the Quran that has trigger your smell detector ?
@@thegreatsecretofislam so the only religion left is Catholicism apparently?
😂😂😂😂 stop lying
Beautiful discussion.
Murad cherche la vérité sincèrement.
Il est honnête avec ses sentiments, la logique, l'histoire du monde.
Un honnête homme.
Je confirme
It seems to me, based on a thematic study, that the Qur'an has many authors, but that it is a collection of different corpuses. For example, the 'chapters' that begin with the 'mysterious letters' (i.e. _alif, lam, mim_ ) belong together. Then there are many 'chapters' which seem to share pagan formulations (i.e. "By the Sun," "By the Moon," or "By the mountain," etc). And, yes, there are chapters that are poetic, but also 'random' 'chapters' (i.e. C. 111).
The Qur'an really does appear to be a collection of books, which themselves may have been read independently before being bundled together as a single book.
Spot on, a very easy conclusion to make when you just read the text as it is. Different Arabic traditions lumped together. Perhaps the authors were wiped out during those violent years after Mohammed's death in the early 7th century.
@@qandachristian7614 The composition of the Qur'an is very complex, not because it is well written (it really is not!), but because it appears to have been fed through a paper shredder and reassembled to make it even less coherent. And then it may have gone through at least one stage of redaction before the text was fixed.
Historians tell us that Arabia had mostly abandoned paganism and adopted monotheism in the 4th and 5th Centuries (thanks to Christian missionaries from Syria and Jewish influence in Yemen) over one hundred years before the time of Muhammad. It's quite possible that much of the material incorporated into the Qur'an originates from that time.
Both the Qur'an and hadith literature tell us that Muhammad had a Book of Allah in his lifetime (Q. 15:87 says Muhammad has the whole Qur'an - despite C. 9 being traditionally believed to be the final chapter). But the Qur'an we read today is acknowledged to have been compiled after the time of Muhammad (Q. 53:5-17 speaks of Muhammad in the past tense), either in the time of Abu Bakr or Uthman; although the Qur'an we read today was probably canonised by Al Hajjaj under Abd al Malik, c. 705 CE.
So, the 'Meccan' and 'Madinan' sections of the Qur'an may be the result of different redactors rather than different authors, or perhaps the later addition of extra material.
@@gavinjames1145 indeed and the end result is a non-divine and uniquely confusing book.
My conclusion also.
I think Abd al-Malik did a compiling of religious scriptures from the various Arab factions he submitted under his rule. He had the various texts mixed and intertwined so that no faction could take only one part of the final book (the part of their contribution). This is what I explain with detail in my book
@@OdonLafontaine Ah! Yes, mixing texts makes sense now!
This appears to have occurred in the _Torah_ ,between Elohists and Yahwehists (a.k.a. the Documentary hypothesis, which forms the basis of my current understanding of Qur'an composition).
Of course most Arabs in Syria and Iraq were Christian and Jewish, it seems. Hence, the inclusion of so much Biblical material in the Qur'an.
The Qur'an was an attempt in syncretism between the religions (Q. 3:64).
May the Lord God keep you both safe, may his mercy and blessing always remain on you both because you may not realise He is using you both to help expose the thruth for his glory...
The LGBT glory accepted by the Church also !
Very informative and interesting discussion, thank you!
Very informative!? Really
Please don’t cry
Amazing! ❤
Don't forget to buy Murad a coffee!
What will make it hard to refute Murad's work is its systematic grounding in Arabic linguistics.
I've always sensed something was fishy about the Qur'an in English translation. Now I can know. We owe a great debt to Murad, partly for his skill set, but mostly for his courage and integrity.
Sir kindly add the latest inscriptions as well ..... Eg. one which says that the masjid al haram was made later in 78 AH ie around 698 AD
Also i have a theory .... It seems like the black stone was attached to the kaaba by abd al malik ..... As he wanted to unify the arabs ..... Also, One thing that i noticed ..... Whats that bulb like thing on abd al malik's coin in the back side on top of the rod ... Is it black stone ?
Big fan of all of you. Just want to ask Murad about the Birmingham folio. Does Murad think that the quran was written by the 2 authors at the same time period? The folio was dated to around the time Muhammad was believed to have been preaching.
Was there a redactor or interpolator?
What are your thoughts on Red Judaism that Muhammad was ibn Qabisah?
I wrote an article about the Birmingham folio at the time. Although it is in French, you can use Google Translate to read it: www.eecho.fr/coran-de-birmingham-datant-de-mahomet-fausse-annonce/
Regarding the "historical Muhammad," it's a wild goose chase. There's no point in trying to find him, as those who might have borne the title "mhmd" around 620-640 CE are very different from the concept of "Muhammad." Muhammad, as the prophet of Islam, is a fictional character.
@thegreatsecretofislam Will you ever make this in English? Thanks so much.
Mr Murad how do you understand Salat in Quran as you are X Muslim is the salat means what we do 5 times a day
❤❤❤
Hello is it available to download
You have every instruction for downloading Murad's translation or my book in the description of the video
I can tell you from what was i able to notice, with knowledge of hebrew and aramaic, both in biblical and talmudic application, this can all be taken into the next level
Please do, then. Take us to the next level, I am all ears!
Thanks I wonder if later this concordance would be used to work backwards into non Arabic roots of words. And/or even a non SIN commentary covering for example earliest primary document date, so called black Koran, and possible break points where bits may have been covered....
Yes, that would be a second step. First step is Murad's translation based on Arabic only. It is essential, even though we are all impatient to go beyond:
- identifying words that were originally non Arabic (and became Arabic because they are in the Quran)
- further understanding how the Quran was made (interpolations, compiling and editing process)
- cross-referencing the many studies on the historical / geographical / religious contexts
etc.
What is this black koran primary document?
@@starshipchris4518 I don't understand your question
HALAL in hebrew means void empty , or A space , also used in regard of fallen soldiers ... defined as Halal.Halalim (plural)
There's a lot of Islamic experts who have popped up since Bernard Lewis set up the REVISIONIST SCHOOL OF ISLAMIC STUDIES, which has no scholar speaking Arabic nor having Islamic studies qualification.
There has been a lot of cringe among Muslim militants since the REVISIONIST SCHOOL OF ISLAMIC STUDIES shattered the Islamic narrative, leaving them completely unable to counter it.
@thegreatsecretofislam This is just amazing ! So white Christian westerners with colonial thinking singlehandedly destroyed Islam, without knowing Arabic nor any Islamic teaching, you people are White Christian evangelist genius...the whole Muslim world will convert based on your research or not.
@thegreatsecretofislam why are you removing my comments ? A western colonialism black op rather than a scholarly project, is n it ? You wonder why people are not taking you seriously !
@@thegreatsecretofislam Not the best way to learn Islam through Christian apologetics...
@thegreatsecretofislam The Revisionist School was started by the British Secret Services...yourself are an Islamophobic individual who has expressed hatred for Islam and the prophet of Islam, and you have promoted mass conversion of Muslims to your religion, Roman Catholicism; so my question is, why should we trust your so called "scholarship?"
What you said about the word 'rajm' leads me to an Islamic tradition that is common in Indonesia. where a ghost or evil spirit (in a person's house or body) is controlled by a Muslim "expert" (In the practices of exorcism). These spirits can be pushed, pulled (controlled), even shouted and tortured. Is this the original meaning you intended, brother Murad?? I beg your confirmation on this, please!.
I wonder if Saint Murad will ever release a hardcover version of his translation?
He is working on it right now
As Wendell Berry said: "If you are a con artist, the ignorance or innocence of others is your business. Only the vilest depravity takes advantage and makes business of the weakness of others as."
@@Aladin-r8t this looks like the very definition of the prophet of Islam according to Islam.
@@thegreatsecretofislam your ignorance is worse than your arrogance. You are no scholar.
Murad is 👍
21:09 🤯
iki kanal odong2...
It's wrong to say that no one in the world will eat rotten meat. Primitive tribes do it regularly.
There is (or used to be) a delicacy in France: aged game meat (different from dry aged) almost to the point of decomposition. Supposed to be particularly delicious with game birds (pheasant). Never tasted it.
Very very interesting.
Also, in Christian concept of casting out Satan.
Judaizers were Christian’s who said you must also be circumcised and keep the law to be saved.
They were followers of Jesus (at least they pretended to be) but they were not "fully fledged" Christians since they did not have the Christian creed
What really defies the imagination is that in few years a bunch of Christian apologetics have been singlehandedly been able to "expose" Islam, without even knowing Arabic nor have they gotten any degree in Islamic studies; things that millions of Muslim scholars, who have memorized the Quran, have not been able to achieve after 14 centuries..
@@Aladin-r8t ad personam argument once again. Such a miserable trolling.
Besides, Muslim scholars could never produce such work on Islam’s origins because they are constrained from developing a truly critical perspective on it. They are not allowed "haram" thoughts.
@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, I asked you for a debate and you refused. Who is a troll then ? In 8 years of Islam bashing, you debated once with a Muslim individual. Yet you victimize and insult Muslims and their prophet! You are a Christian missionary, and nothing else. You can't handle facts.
@@Aladin-r8t If you want to debate me, present some historical arguments first. None are to be found in the hundreds of commentaries you’ve written-only ad hominem attacks and vile rhetoric.
@thegreatsecretofislam your problem is you demand your opponent to achieve what you refuse to achieve yourself : Objectivity and impartiality. You build your "theory" on an assumption, i.e., Judeo-Nazarean derivation from Jerusalem to Mecca. What is your historical proof?
@@Aladin-r8t The proof is the Quranic text, confirmed by external sources (non Muslim sources from the 7th cent., and critical examination of the Muslim sources). I wrote a book detailing all this.
What's your PRECISE argument then?
👍 We need your words written on the screen of your videos, it helps us to understand and learn English 👍
You can turn on UA-cam's auto-subtitles
if the author of the qur'an is sad/tragic and is naming humans as 'forgetful' this is a clear description of lucifer and his angels. They were expelled from heaven, luzifer is hating and deceiving humans for that reason..till this day.
@thegreatsecretofislam do you think it is fair that Bible scholars like Christine Haynes, Bart Ehrman and many othera had to graduate specifically in Theology and then learn Greek, Hebrew and Latin before calling themselves "Biblical expert" and on the other hand, the REVISIONIST SCHOOL has nobody graduating in Islamic studies, nor do they know Arabic language. .
There's no possibility of a debate with you, even a regular discussion since you behave like a senseless troll. You never answer any question; you never stay on a same topic; you always change the subject; you never develop any argument other than ad personam.
@thegreatsecretofislam you re not a scholar; merely a Catholic extremist; always blaming the others for your lack of logic. In 8 years you debated once with a Muslim person. Keep your western orientalism nonsense.
@thegreatsecretofislam you ve been only mocking Islam and the prophet of Islam while plotting to "convert" Muslims to Christianity. While the French population is practicing Catholic at 5%....
Keep "Belief" but no truth in it😮
christians are not referred to as mushrikeen, they are referred to as Nasreen in the quran (nasreen= Nazareth and also Victors as Jesus resurrected and was of the victors)
Can Islam Monotheism be criticized?
Yes.
@@helman41 on what basis?
@@Aladin-r8t The man-made idea of the Islamic God is in its essence idolatry, due to it only existing as a concept in the minds of men. Read The Crucified God by Jurgen Moltmann to better understand my comment.
@jack8659 yourself are more complicated than the trinity mystery since you cannot explain your idea with simple words but need a whole book....
@@Aladin-r8t you read that book very quickly.
There is actually only One Qur'an.
The one in a Muhammadans imagination.
For Muslims who do not have a strong holistic knowledge of the contents of the Quran, be careful that you do not become a blind follower. He is an apostate and all Muslims should know what the Quran says about following people like him.
What about apostates?
Murad says masjid al aqsa is the demolished temple ..... Whereas you say masjid al haram is that place
I do not remember this but you surely are right (please point me the exact moment in our discussion).
As I detailed in my book, I think the "Night Journey" verses (17,1-2) are an adaptation of ancient Jewish tradition about Moses' Night Journey from Mount Sinai (or from Egypt) to Jerusalem.
@@thegreatsecretofislam I also think it has a Zoroastrian touch .... Not in the Quran though but in the night journey story.
If all what you present is taken to be true ..... One thing that comes to my mind is that the description of masjid al haram is very similar to temple Mount however masjid al aqsa is the demolished sanctuary so it has to be the Temple Mount ..... But if we see closely Petra has the same characteristics as that of masjid al haram .... It seems like masjid al haram has been built time and again in locations which fit this narrative and then finally shifted to Mecca .... To me it seems that masjid al haram has to be a sanctuary that has been devoted to the temple Mount. And thus the cube shaped Kaaba became devoted sanctuary for judao nazarenes and I'm not sure on this but for the Arabs it became the 1st religion of abraham relating to the breaking of idols etc. i.e. what sabeans used to follow ..... And if you read you'll find that they were following the Hajj tradition since 8th century BC which is identical to that of muslims.
Odon, can you name me one single scholar of your entourage (the REVISIONIST school ) who has any ACADEMIC COLLEGE degree in ISLAMIC STUDIES & arabic language ?
Merci beaucoup !
شكرآ جزيلا
Viele Danke !
@@Aladin-r8t robert hoyland
@thegreatsecretofislam Robert G. Hoyland (born 1966) is a historian, specializing in the medieval history of the Middle East. He was a student of historian Patricia Crone ...
You won't never change will you ?
Vous êtes indécrottable !
@thegreatsecretofislam And Patricia Crone had neither degree in Islam nor in Arabic language.
@@Aladin-r8t Hoyland's Phd thesis is right in the field of Islamic studies: "Seeing Islam as others saw it".
Thereafter, he taught as professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University.
What's your point?
What's the point of your senseless trolling?
@@thegreatsecretofislam can you debate without insulting ? The Western Orientalism loses control when challenged ?
May Almighty God bless and protect you Murad leave and go to Christians country
Dr Bart Ehrman has written a book about the fact that there's no notion nor mention of HELL NOR HEAVEN in the Bible ...but you need to read the original versions of the Bible....1st, how come the Quran is full of HELL & PARADISE (Arabic word) if it supposedely took it as reference from the Bible ?
2nd, how come, all you CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS lack to study your own Bible discrepancies prior to reading the TRANSLATED QURAN ?
Lies, again.
There are mentions of "paradise" (the word "garden" "pardēs" in aramaic, as in Luke 23,43) and hell ("Gehenna", the "valley of Hinnom" in Jerusalem, which became the word Gehenna, meaning "hell," as in Matthew 5:22). Mostly, the Bible refers to "Sheol," the place where the dead dwell.
The Jewish and Christian Aramaic word Gehenna was incorporated into the Quran as Jahannam (which is not originally an Arabic word), indicating that the Quran's composition was influenced by Aramaic-speaking Christians (and/or Jews)-another clue pointing to the influence of the Judeo-Nazarenes.
cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=prds+N&cits=all
cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=gyhn%29+N&cits=all
Bart Ehrman is a respected scholar, though I don’t agree with all his theories. However, he would certainly never claim something as ridiculous as the Bible having no mention of hell or heaven. I strongly suspect you just made that up.
@thegreatsecretofislam you are just an i.d.i.o.t (le mot est laché) ; Prof Ehrman wrote an academic book based on the OT & NT where he studied them in their original languages (Aramaic-Hebrew; Greek) prends en de la graine ! And he concluded that the original version NOT THE ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION, contains nothing about the Hereafter, and the word Gehenom is a valley north of Jerusalem, as well as Eden is on Earth. You just prove to the public that you re not a scholar but a c.r.e.t.i.n. for God's sake, LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE & QURAN if you want to open your mouth.
@thegreatsecretofislam And the original Tanakh was not even written in Hebrew; the Hebrew version was composed in the 9th AD by a scholar of my tribe in my city ! Do a dialogue on it and I shall school you on this. Also I have the Sabatean version.. Hebrew is a Canaanite dialect / Genesis.. you haven't even scratched the surface. Genius ! Avec un DEUG Commercial.
@thegreatsecretofislam @thegreatsecretofislam you are just an i.d.i.o.t (le mot est laché) ; Prof Ehrman wrote an academic book based on the OT & NT where he studied them in their original languages (Aramaic-Hebrew; Greek) prends en de la graine ! And he concluded that the original version NOT THE ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION, contains nothing about the Hereafter, and the word Gehenom is a valley north of Jerusalem, as well as Eden is on Earth. You just prove to the public that you re not a scholar but a c.r.e.t.i.n. for God's sake, LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES OF THE BIBLE & QURAN if you want to open your mouth.
@thegreatsecretofislam you call me a liar ? You didnt even vetcmy information???? You are a lunatic. Prof Bart Ehrman book can easily found online and therefore you are an idiot for insulting me over an INTELLECTUAL DEBAT. You re not fit to exchange with your opponents.
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in an argument - William Mcadoo.
hence the impossibility to discuss this topic with a hardcore muslim
@@thegreatsecretofislam projection / inversement accusatoire. You are afraid to confront academic analysis. You are a propagandist.
@@Aladin-r8t show me Muslim academics analysis
@thegreatsecretofislam every muslim is a hard-core, per your Christian extremist standard. Thats why you try to convert them to trinitarian cult ? There's less than 5% practicing Christians in France (Abbé Rioult).
@@thegreatsecretofislam do you read Arabic !
Bernard Werber says " the world is divided into two categories: those who read books and those who listen to those who have read books."
…
Don’t just listen to videos.
Go to the text!... especially those read by some "dissidents" in front of a camera, distorting it!
Many of those who appear in videos, and read books, tamper with the texts, or add more.
Bernard Werber dit « le monde se divise en deux catégories: ceux qui lisent des livres et ceux qui écoutent ceux qui ont lu des livres. »
…
Ne vous limitez pas à écouter des videos.
Allez au texte !...surtout à ceux que lisent certains « dissidents » devant une caméra, en le déformant !
Beaucoup de ceux qui s'affichent dans des videos, et nous lisent des livres, en traficotent les textes, ou en rajoutent.
I write books, mainly. Read them.
@thegreatsecretofislam BHL also writes book ! Odon, you built everything on the Pere Gallez thèse. You claim that you know Arabic also.
@@Aladin-r8t Liar.
@@thegreatsecretofislam it is o. Your Academia "fiche technique"...you are an intellectual fraud.
The Quran was not revealed as a "book" but as an oral transmission.
It is only when the memorizers started to die off that it was composed (7 Huruf) and compiled (Qoreish accent).
The ponctuation was added by Al Hadjad Ibn Yossef, on the Arabic Abjad as a whole, not just on the Quran. So, according to your logic, how come only the Quran was affected and not the other manuscripts?
Your logic is totally lacking historical scutiny and serious facts.
The Quran was not revealed at all.
The evidence within this text is compelling.
And I do not understand your question.
@thegreatsecretofislam on what basis can you make this argument of the non-existence of the Quran ?
@thegreatsecretofislam it's been over 10 years that you are translating Jay Smith nonsense without any cross-examination. Again, I challenge you to debate with any Muslim scholar on your accusation "the Quran was not revealed". Put up ot shut up !
@@Aladin-r8t Liar. My work is not about translating Jay Smith.
As for the Quran being a mere human text, that emerged from the compiling and editing of former texts, preaching instructions, on the fly notes from preaching sessions, adaptations from Syriac hymns, prayer and apocalyptics, and other stuff, read my book. You'll find every evidence and source. And I guess this is why no Muslim scholar would dare to engage in debate on this topic. He would have to much to lose, and nothing to answer.
@thegreatsecretofislam @thegreatsecretofislam So everybody tyat refuses your nonsense is a "liar" ?
You are not a subject exoert. You are an apologetic Catholic. As example in your "Le Secret de l'Islam" you state that Abraham was a "Jew." this is a major mistake. You have no knowledge of the subject but only opinions. For you Islam is wrong and let's bring its detractor; this is not a scientifical thinking but a subjective opinion.
Odon Lafontaine has an Associate degree in Business...
@@Aladin-r8t a master degree, please
@thegreatsecretofislam at the time you had a " DEUG commercial"...it is still on your "fiche technique" , you re missing a BSc , let alone a MSc...
Ibn Abbas, Al Tabari were under the Ommeyads and in Arabia...they didn't wait until the "Abbasid" in Persia...
@@Aladin-r8t Al-Tabari lived under the Ummayads? You're so full of crap.
@thegreatsecretofislam there's 02 Tabari, you already made this mistake when you took the initiative to reproduce the shaky theory of Degallez; it is a theory based on assumption : The Judeo-Nazarean to which no logic was coroboring.
What don't you invite Muslim scholars to debate ? ...
Who? What scholar is proficient in the field of scientific historical studies on early islam? Why don't' they take part in the academic debate, publish scientific articles and so? Because they do not abide by the scientific method.
@thegreatsecretofislam they don't ! Ibn Sina (medicin) , Ibn Roshd (Averoes), Ibn Jabr (Algorithm); Al khawaruzmi (partial differential equation)...
@@Aladin-r8t You are so full of crap... What do these long time dead people have to do with the ongoing scientific research movement on Islam's origins
@thegreatsecretofislam Islam origin ? Start learning Arabic and try to learn by getting at least a BSc in Islamic studies. There's a lot of French Arabic language experts and Islamologue; none has this childish information of yours. You re not an intellectual but an executioner translating papers from Christian apologetics like David Wood or Jay Smith; also, Gallez, who has no Islamic study diploma; I know him personally, and he graduated in NT Theology. You pretend to use "Science" and "Objectivity" as a commercial lie. Your attitude towards anybody challenging you reveal your dark mentality.
@@thegreatsecretofislam there's plenty, do you read Arabic ?
طرح غوستاف لوبون مقارنة بين تاريخية محمد وتاريخية يسوع فقال «نعرف ما فيه الكفاية عن حياة محمد ، أما حياة المسيح فمجهولة تقريبًا ، وإنك لن تطمع أن تبحث عن حياته في الأناجيل»
-حياة الحقائق؛ غوستاف لوبون، ص 62
Gustave Le Bon lived decades ago. He had no access to recent scholarship about early Islam
@thegreatsecretofislam you are an ignorant. He wrote "La Civilisation des Arsbes", which is until today a historical reference. He presented all the documentation that the Arabs brought back the Jews to Palestine and the Christian Coptic Church to Egypt after both were expelled and banned by the Byzantine Christians. Your "contemporary" evidences are all from the "Bernard Lewis REVISIONIST school of Zionism brainwashing." Even Wikipedia states that nobody has taken seriously this REVISIONIST school which is a Western Orientalism think tank. None of this group of "scholars' know Arabic language nor have they any Islamology degree.
A child can refute Murat.
I dare u to bring all this nonsense to irl in live against corner speakers or those who have knowledge, u will run away with the tail down😂
Why don't "those who have knowledge"publish books and articles to prove it, as is customary when dealing with science and reason? Could it be that they're afraid their so-called expertise would be exposed as a fraud?
@@thegreatsecretofislam it is already 🤣u have many many books which even debunked all your nonsense, you are just scared to read them and educate yourself, you are scared of truth stop embarrassing yourself, your nonsense is not even worth to be popular but if it gets it will be automatically bringed down
Prof Jacques Berque was an "Arabist"; he grew up in Algeria and knew perfectly Arabic which he taught in College....he spent 16 years to compose a translation of the Quran; then he spent 9 years to add an updated version...and he doesn't say what some Arab Christian bozzos are saying.
Because he heavoly relied on the late Islamic narratives to work on his translation of the Quran
@thegreatsecretofislam your problem is called subjectivity. You try hard to find mistakes and when you can't find any, you invent them. Vous êtes trop à charge.
@thegreatsecretofislam there's no "narrative" in the TAFSEER ; You mix with Hadith.
You asked about contemporaries TAFSEER : Sayed Qutb, and Sharawi, I think there's also one by Al Ghazali.
@@thegreatsecretofislam Odon, you should work on your lack of objectivity. All your logic is selective. You are a Catholic extremist who talks openly about converting Muslims (il faut les évangeliser) while complaining about Muslim Terrorism....you lost your compass!
Let me ask you this : Why you re not sensing threat when the Messiah is being mocked and Christianity values attacked at the JO ?
Althought all the Muslims are denouncing it !
A threat to what? The building of Christianity as a political entity? This is not what Christianity is about.
The only thing that this mocking did: it showed wokes and progressives have nothing but hatred towards Christianity (contrary to Islam). They hate Christianity because it shows what they are: evil.
@thegreatsecretofislam or maybe because it's a revenge from centuries of Christian inquisition !
نسخ also means SUPERSEDE...a lot of BS for the Extravaganza effect !
No Arabic language experts but Christian Arabs...
Odon Lafontaine. You are French and 5% of the French population is practicing Christianity (Abbé Rioult)....yet you talked openly about COVERTING MUSLIMS (évangelisation)...how can you reconcile this discrepancy?
@@Aladin-r8t how is this a discrepancy?
@thegreatsecretofislam so your Churches are falling and burning, no attendees, completely empty, but your only passion is to convert Muslins. I was only sent to rescue the lost sheeps of Israel.. .dixit Jesus. You don't even know your religion.
So what academic background does this Murad have ? ...there's 340 million of Arabs in the world who can do an English translation of the Quran ...
What's your academic background?
What was your prophet's?
@thegreatsecretofislam why do you have to attack Prophet Mohamed SAS ? On n'attrape pas les mouches avec du vinaigre ! You are entering a very serious subject wearing your "gros sabots". Do a video with me with a moderator. Your problem is you keep attacking Islam within your groupies circle. Submit your "theories" to scrutiny; Al Fadel, Qoreishi and many other ex-muslims have done it; instead of bringing us this Murad who is affraid to reveal his "identity"....you re just doing propaganda since 10 years for commercial reason I suppose.
@thegreatsecretofislam our Prophet was illiterate! An illiterate who changed the world!
Odon, you self proclaimed yourself an Islamic scholar, you only debated once with a Muslim, you have no formal training nor academic in the subject, you used a theological thesis written by a priest with no training except in the Bible, you promote ex-muslim / Freemasons / Christian Arabs to smear Islam and when confronted to opposition, you turn to insults and name calling!
@@thegreatsecretofislam my background? I m not the one editing cheap video attacking another religion.
Subxannallah the Quran is protected by Allah and the only thing these Persian guys did is only played with the translations
Which one is the preserved one? there are 37 different quranzz
The Qur'an is simply a collection of previously known stories knocking about at the time bundled together to justify expansionist aims of a bunch of warlords such as Uthman.
Neither of these men is Persian.
Allah is fake nonsense WAKE UP!
May Allah humiliated him as he played with words & as he tried to delude the ignorant people
@@Binserglupilf2fj Are you talking about Uthman who corrupted it and burnt the real one?
@@martinjackman2943 u are obviously ignorant about the process of compelling of koran, if u want to learn it than investigate from Islamic sources not from islamophobic sources !! Not forget to read a books called (forged) & ( the story behind who changed the bibel and why ) written by Bart ehrman ,may be will help u to find endless corrupted sentences in bibel if u are Cristian!! If u a cow worshiper , sorry I can not help u more
طرح غوستاف لوبون مقارنة بين تاريخية محمد وتاريخية يسوع فقال «نعرف ما فيه الكفاية عن حياة محمد ، أما حياة المسيح فمجهولة تقريبًا ، وإنك لن تطمع أن تبحث عن حياته في الأناجيل»
-حياة الحقائق؛ غوستاف لوبون، ص 62
ويؤكد هذه المقارنة المستشرق بودلي الذي خالط البدو العرب سبع سنين وألف كتاب «حياة محمد» «لا نعرف إلا شذرات عن حياة المسيح، أما في سيرة محمد فنعرف الشيء الكثير، ونجد التاريخ بدل الظلال والغموض»[8]، كما أكد أرنولد توينبي المؤرخ الشهير الفكرة ذاتها
ظهرت في سبعينيات القرن العشرين مدرسة استشراقية متطرفة تعادي المصادر التاريخية الإسلامية، ونتائج هذه المدرسة متضاربة رغم انطلاقها من افتراضات مشتركة. وهي تعارض أي مصادر تاريخية تناولت سيرة محمد، حتى وإن كتبها غير المسلمين، حين تتوافق مع المصادر التاريخية الإسلامية التي تناولت الوجود التاريخي لمحمد، وذهب بعض المستشرقين المتطرفين من أتباع هذه المدرسة من شدة عدائهم لمحمد إلى إنكار الآثار التاريخية التي خلفها في مسقط رأسه مكة المكرمة ومدينته المدينة المنورة وبقية أنحاء الجزيرة العربية، من خلال فرضية تنكر وجود مكة والمدينة ثم اختلقوا فرضية أخرى ادعوا من خلالها أن مكة المكرمة والمدينة المنورة بل والحجاز أيضًا ليست هي مكة والمدينة والحجاز وأن مكة والمدينة والحجاز خارج حدود شبه الجزيرة العربية، وتضمنت فرضيات هؤلاء المستشرقين إنكارا لوجود قريش وإنكارا للفتوحات التي قادها أصحاب محمد من الجزيرة العربية، وإنكارا للقرآن بوصفة رسالة محمد.
خلفت فرضيات هذه المدرسة الاستشراقية سيلا من الانتقادات من المستشرقين وعلماء الغرب أنفسهم بسبب ركاكة تلك الفرضيات التي اختلق أصحابها فجوات تاريخية لدعم ادعاءاتهم.
أقدم مصدر إسلامي للمعلومات عن حياة محمد، هو القرآن ويعتبر وثيقة تاريخية، وفيه ذكر اسمه ومعلومات شخصية مثل حواراته وغزواته فذكرت معركة بدر وأحد والخندق وتفاصيلها، وذكر أهل بيته بما فيه ذكر حادثة مقاطعته لزوجاته وتخيريهن بين العيش الزاهد معه أو الطلاق، وقصة طلاق زينب من زيد وزواجه لاحقًا بها، وموقف المستشرقين الجدد متناقض من هذه الحادثة، فهم يثقون بذكر القرآن لهذه الحادثة ويبنون طعنًا أخلاقيًا عليها وفق تصور سلبي لمجرياتها، ثم ينكرون تاريخية القرآن وتاريخية محمد بعد ذلك، وفي القرآن ذكر للأسئلة التي طرحت عليه وسميت سورة باسم «المجادلة» في قصة امرأة وشكواها.[3][4] النص التالي في الأهمية هو الحديث النبوي، ثم السيرة النبوية والذي دون في الأعمال التاريخية للكتاب من القرن الثالث والرابع من العصر الإسلامي (حوالي 800-1000 بعد الميلاد).
If the oldest source of information for the life of Muhammad is the Quran, how come every mention of him (and that of Ahmad) are interpolations? Why the need to add verses about Muhammad in the Quranic text? Maybe because the text wasn't about him before Abd al-Malik and his successors tampered with it.
@thegreatsecretofislam Nonsense ! The Quran mentions Moses some 79 times, Virgin Mary 27 times, Jesus 25 times and only 4 times Mohamed....so you are a Google Scholar ?
@@Aladin-r8t You're off topic. The issue at stake here is that avery Muhammad mention in the Quran was not in the original texts. All have been added (interpolations) later, most probably around and after Abd al-Malik.
@thegreatsecretofislam you say that every time you are exposed ! The Quran is not about the life of Mohamed, Genius DEUG COMMERCIAL.
Odon how do you reconcile the fact that you present Islam as threat while all the Christian Churches in Gaza have been bombed lately by Israel.
Islam and Zionism are one and the same. Hate ideologies.
@@thegreatsecretofislam that's not my question! Why aren't you exposing Zionism if it is like Islam ?
Murad is a Christian Arab, because there's no "Saint" in Islam...no ex-Muslim would have used this pure Christian Arab adjective.
What are muslims saying about your findings.
What is the great secret of Islam?
Islam's true origins that its tradition has concealed
@thegreatsecretofislam so 14 centuries later a DEUG Commercial found it...
@@Aladin-r8t MBA from France's second major business school. Highly competitive recruitment. It's much better than anything your "illiterate prophet" was ever able to achieve.
@thegreatsecretofislam last time I checked your Bio, it said "DEUG COMMERCIAL"...You need to update it then. It's been over 10 years you ve been spending your sad existence attacking Islam. First of all, you should stop AD HOMINEM towards people who don't agree with you. Can you ?
@@Aladin-r8tlike yeah😂 this is Chanel and Chanel like this are just embarrassing 😂 trying anything just to go against the truth, this is all payed up just to lie and bark, inshaaAllah they will see
Hmm... Murad the Bot! It would help to take LSD and cannabis before tuning in!
When a simple bot is able to debunk the Quran and its Islamic interpretation, it says a lot about Islam's weaknesses