SICK OF IT ALL BORN AGAINST DEBATE ON WNYU
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- On one side, Steve Martin (founder of In Effect Records and formerly of Agnostic Front), Lou and Pete Koller of Sick Of It All, and Sam of Evacuate Records represent the alleged commercially motivated hardcore contingent of the late 1980s New York hardcore scene. The other side, representing the populist, do-it-yourself faction involved in New York hardcore is Sam McPheeters and Adam Nathanson of Born Against/Vermiform Records and Charles Maggio of Rorschach/Gern Blandsten Records.
INFO: morethanawitnes...
This is such an incredible piece of hardcore history.
Not sure how I haven’t heard this but this is great
"Hey let sam talk"
That ruled
He ended up apologizing for pushing him.
I've always traditionally had more respect for Born Against, but in hindsight( regardless of what one thinks about either band), Sam was in the wrong here. What was the point of this debate? It sounded like criticism from Sam for Sick of It All for being on a major label. I remember that was a no no back then for any punk band. But ultimately whether it's music or anything that someone makes, if they ( the creator) are not compromised in what they do, then they should do it and not be criticized just because it's on a bigger scale( or in this case a major label). Everyone back then used to call it selling out. But it was also ridiculous because most of if not all of those bands never had to change their sound or look or anything. Just ask the friggin Ramones. They did their thing on a major label. Say what you want about him, but people were calling Rollins a sellout back then, yet the guy did his thing and didn't pander to anyone else. Fugazi and Discord should be what all artists ascribe to, but hey if a label or distributor wants to give you a ton of money and financial help, without the artist having to compromise anything, more power to you.
I'm on the same page. I wasn't there for this era so I'm not immersed in the zeitgeist of it, but while I identify more with Born Against's ethics and the NYHC dudes come off as defensive and bro-y in this conversation, they have the right to do what they want with their music. However, since it's ultimately rooted in capitalism it's fundamentally opposed to the ideals of DIY culture. The accessibility argument I think is valid too, most kids won't find MRR before they listen to Green Day.
I came here after reading Sam's book, and he talks a bit about this. For what it's worth, he admits that he was wrong and is generally embarrassed that this debate has been immortalized via the internet.
Sounds like Sammy the bull vs Micheal frachizie
FREEDOM OF SPEECH this was our thing WHAT THE FUCK hit by a gas truck listen to some MUDOVEN im sick of it all your going to get 25 to LIFE VON VOLUME its all about the CASH
Wow.
This is just a debate of artists vs. goofs who want to use their band as a business while trying to hold some harder-core-than-thou authenticity cop badge at the same time
Hardcore of that scale is legit just a bad metal scene with worse musicians. They even bring it up later on how it earns them respect and metal tours, etc.
If everything is a "common sense" argument with no risk - it's not art. It's just boring consumerism.
What happend at the end of this thing anyway? Like did they start fighting each other, because it sounds like they were about to.
If that happened, we already know SOIA kicked some ass
This is great! 🤣
pmrc not mentioned
I like Born Against, but I get the feeling they weren't really listening to the other side. It's funny that they called themselves populist, but I think if you were populist, you'd want your records in as many stores as possible. Whatever, it's a great tape, and I'm sure a few of these guys laugh about it.
Which of these bands are still around? I guess SOIA formula had a bit more longevity!!
Let kids get SOIA at Wal-Mart.
SOIA wiped the floor with BA. Real world common sense vs. idealistic BS.
Stupid ass comment from someone who wasn’t there. Born Against kicks ass. Sick of It All are cool too.
The Born Against and Rorschach guys definitely lost this debate
16 minutes in... bored... Rorschach is better than SOIA anyways...
rorschach !!!
If they were, they'd be playing the thousands SOIA is playing.
I dunno man, I like born against...
SOIA are legendary. Nobody cares about Rorschach
If playing to thousands is your barometer of success in hardcore that seems flawed, is Knocked Loose the greatest hardcore band then?