I bought a Carinthia defence 4 this past week after watching your review of that bag. As a single income parent of three kids I can’t afford to waste money on gear that doesn’t work , your channel and reviews have gone a long way to helping me make the right choices when it comes to spending my money. Thanks for your honest reviews , they definitely help people like me !!
I wish they had this type of bag, Carinthia defence 4, when I was herding 2 boys through boy scouts (both are eagle scouts now). But in the early 2000's, I opted for the ECWS (x2) and IMO, at least for 4 season camping, and price, can't really beat them for all kinds of weather up here in Michigan. I've personally have slept outside on the ground in -5F w/o the sleeping system clothing (just a pair of silk long johns and wool socks (and of course, the tried and trusty fleece beenie). As long as I didn't move around much, I stayed warm enough to get about 6 hrs of sleep. The best part of the ECWS was, at least fo rme, during summer camping, you had the bivy and patrol bag which was perfect for hot evenings but cool mornings. Thanks, GP for your insight and sharing your experiences with this equipment. Priceless.
I have the British army winter artic bag and for years I thought it was made wrong with the baffle and zipper on the inside, thanks for clearing that up.
The Dutch military doesn`t issue these and have never done so. It may have been a personal purchase by an individual. Since 2005 the Carinthia Defence 4 and Tropen system has been issued. Later it was replaced by clones made by FECSA, a spanish company which makes the same system for the UK forces. There is another type of sleepingbag made by Carinthia issued. That one is based on the Carinthia Brenta. The Dutch MOD made some strange decisions about purchases, but never the sleepingbags tho. The Snugpak Sleeka Elite has been issued foor some years for cold weather gear.
@@GruntProof Really? You sure they had snugpaks? Can be they had been testing out some stuff. You remember what brigade it was? RNLA only has 3😬 and a brigade size Marine Corps..
I've used the Softie 9 and 6 (Winter/Summer) sleeping bags for over 30 years, I think they're great bags for the weight/price/size. That Elite one looks a lot bigger. The zip sometimes snags but I haven't had that much of a drama with it tbh.
Mental hospitals should have a supply of Snugpak sleeping bags for when they run out of straight jackets. They are even worse to get unzipped when sleeping in a hammock. lol.
Yeah the zippers were something I was actually quite impressed by with Carinthia. Even with liner, def 4 and tropen outer (especially since the tropens zipper spot is different) a single hard swipe still opened all three at once.
@@Jakelol1980 I'll give that a try but to be honest with you it's put me off the bloody thing. lol. I just bought the British army sleep system which has a better zip.
Can't agree more. I've a great body warmer from them I've had for yonks and love it. This sleeping bag I've had for less time and it's the sodding zip that let's it down (I find it catching and clogging up the most irritating bit, to ge fair: once it's stuck it really sticks. Many a long fight with it: up and down). Now shoved in a dry bag and left in my motor as a just in case item (still usefull from time to time but that zip..!)
I’ve been using quilts, even in extremely cold conditions, for a number of years now. Once you learn to sleep in them, they’re lighter and more comfortable than a sleeping bag, and guess what: no zippers. I’m not sure why military systems don’t incorporate them more. It seems like the woobie is the only military iteration of this, but all the high speed solutions use a sleeping bag.
I've got their Special Forces system and I've found a way to close the bag reliably by putting my left hand below the zipper to keep the baffle out of the way. I guess it's hard to design a zipper that closes well with a baffle underneath. It opens up without any problems though. And I think an application of some dry lubricant will improve things. That said, this system also has a separate zipper baffle that can close all three elements (both bags and the bivy) at once but I haven't tried it yet, maybe it also improves things.
Snugpak zips are a problem that’s been known about for years and I cannot believe that they are unaware of how people feel about this problem. One can only assume they are ignoring consumers and don’t give a crap about customer feedback. Crazy really when it would be so easy to fix.
My Softie was extremely warm and comfortable....................................................until the zipper split. Switched to a Wiggy's bag and never looked back.
I just use the Snugpak Elite 2 all year round. Clothing, the Snugpak Sleeka Softie jacket and British army Softie trousers make up the difference in winter.
@@GruntProof I have the jungle, elite 4 and SF 2 all three have the same issue the easiest one its the SF2 but the zip is in the middle. no first hand experience with the basecamp.
had 3 of them over the span of 15 years, ... would Not recommend them, unless its for a short term camping trip. Mine all failed after about 6 months of use, zips snag, but also i had the stitching in foot box area go too. ... the positives were at the time they were compact/lighter to carry and warm enough for most conditions.
The snail of death lol! I've only ever used their Jungle bag wihich I got about 15 years ago. Not had any major issues, but like you I have a Carinthia Defence 4 and there is no comparison in terms of zipper quality and effectiveness. I mostly hammock camp so it's great having an easy to use central zip to minimize effort getting in and out and the Carinthia has this nailed. Snugpak make ok mid range kit but nothing special - definitely worth paying a little bit more for the really decent stuff imo. All the best from the UK, Andy
Lol yep I have had a snugpack bag for over ten years now a jacket and both are good on exercise except for the bloody zips .this is a problem they have had for so long why they haven't addressed this problem before I don't know . Atb .
I've bought a similar sleeping bag called Expedition from Snugpack with a sick (fake) Multicam looking material on the outside. I must agree with you that the zipper si kind of lame, and the webbing and buckles of the compression straps are kind of low cost, but for the price you pay, you can't find a sleeping bag for that temperature range. 70euros it's a steal for the quality you get. Another thing is the fact that the hollow fiber they use is not so easy to compress compared to other sleeping bags, that's why when you compress it you don't see much difference of size, but if you have a large pack, that's not an issue. But yes, I would pay 10euros extra for a better zipper :)
was about to buy one because last week, i actually managed to get cold while sleeping in my blanket for the first time! (don't you laugh, you'll get older as well). probably won't because having to fiddle with the zipper is part of what drove me out of bags and into blankets in the first place. thanks, you saved me some.
@@GruntProof just went back and checked your other sleeping bag vids. Do you have, after being pampered by your carinthia for all this time, a side-zip bag you can recommend?
I think I used to have one of their bags with zip baffle cuz I’m claustrophobic. Misplaced it during some moves, and I kinda miss it! Although I don’t think I’d actually use it due to going to down top quilts. Semper Fi
Good review. I was considering this bag and now ill keep it mind but consider other options. Mind doing a Helikon Tex Swagman Roll follow up review, second thoughts video ?
@@GruntProof i guess about 10 years ago Elite Systems Recon bags were made in Australia. Now it seems they are made in Cambodia. I might just stick with my MSS. That sucker keeps me warm at night. Im curious to see what bag you settle on next though
Thanks for the review Randal. Snugpak seems to have gone down bit in recent years for some reason but I'd rather go with the Carinthia system if I was in the market but I'm good with my Wiggys. Nate
Having to fiddle with something and cold fingers don’t go together. Thanks for the review. I see Bill left part of his laundry there . Have a great evening
I use OmniCore Designs Modular sleep system which is basically a knock off of the US militarys modular sleep systems. It has those nice YKK zippers which make it so easy to get in and out of.
I'm going to say no, right off the bat. Lets see what you say. Yeah that's what I thought you would say. I hate the zipper as well. Other than that, it's not to bad. I'm glad I had the chance to use one before buying it. I know not to waste my money. I have an old military extreme cold arctic bag. It feels like you're carrying a bucket of bricks, but with a bivy I can sleep out in anything.
I can't afford really expensive gear but want realiability, did a lot of research and the Teton Sports Leef 0 degree has an emergency zipper. At least mine does. It'll rip right open like my son's mss.
@@GruntProof the zippers are not as robust/large as the mss but Teton 0 degree will rip open. I tried your trick and was surprised. Tried 10 times in a row, no jamming.
Couldn’t agree more with every single point🏆 Had my Snugpak Elite 4 for well over a decade and finally upgraded to the Carinthia Def4. For a little more money, it’s better in every way. The baffle is great but I have fought with it and the zipper bite all too often. Sometimes you get trapped in the dmn thing and have to take a time out before tagging in for escape round 2.
The British army copy is half the price and as good as Carinthia def 4. Snugpak are crap. Sorry but it just isn’t good enough for military use 🤷♂️🏴
@@Matthew_Australia as suggested in the reply above this, see if you can find the FECSA copy of the Def4. Usually about £50 here and there are lots around from disposal auctions. I picked up two of the FECSA tropen 1 season bags for £40 a piece and they are pretty good. Not the same quality as Carinthia, but the escape zipper works and doesn’t snag👍🏻
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Typical gobshite yank
I bought a Carinthia defence 4 this past week after watching your review of that bag. As a single income parent of three kids I can’t afford to waste money on gear that doesn’t work , your channel and reviews have gone a long way to helping me make the right choices when it comes to spending my money. Thanks for your honest reviews , they definitely help people like me !!
Happy to help! Extra tip: look for all your winter stuff around early Spring.
I wish they had this type of bag, Carinthia defence 4, when I was herding 2 boys through boy scouts (both are eagle scouts now). But in the early 2000's, I opted for the ECWS (x2) and IMO, at least for 4 season camping, and price, can't really beat them for all kinds of weather up here in Michigan. I've personally have slept outside on the ground in -5F w/o the sleeping system clothing (just a pair of silk long johns and wool socks (and of course, the tried and trusty fleece beenie). As long as I didn't move around much, I stayed warm enough to get about 6 hrs of sleep. The best part of the ECWS was, at least fo rme, during summer camping, you had the bivy and patrol bag which was perfect for hot evenings but cool mornings.
Thanks, GP for your insight and sharing your experiences with this equipment. Priceless.
I have the British army winter artic bag and for years I thought it was made wrong with the baffle and zipper on the inside, thanks for clearing that up.
The Dutch military doesn`t issue these and have never done so. It may have been a personal purchase by an individual. Since 2005 the Carinthia Defence 4 and Tropen system has been issued. Later it was replaced by clones made by FECSA, a spanish company which makes the same system for the UK forces. There is another type of sleepingbag made by Carinthia issued. That one is based on the Carinthia Brenta. The Dutch MOD made some strange decisions about purchases, but never the sleepingbags tho. The Snugpak Sleeka Elite has been issued foor some years for cold weather gear.
Interesting. A whole BDE staff I worked with exclusively used them. We're they all sold by one rebel? Thanks
@@GruntProof Really? You sure they had snugpaks? Can be they had been testing out some stuff. You remember what brigade it was? RNLA only has 3😬 and a brigade size Marine Corps..
I've used the Softie 9 and 6 (Winter/Summer) sleeping bags for over 30 years, I think they're great bags for the weight/price/size. That Elite one looks a lot bigger. The zip sometimes snags but I haven't had that much of a drama with it tbh.
Mental hospitals should have a supply of Snugpak sleeping bags for when they run out of straight jackets. They are even worse to get unzipped when sleeping in a hammock. lol.
Good to know
Love the honesty, you rock.
Yeah the zippers were something I was actually quite impressed by with Carinthia. Even with liner, def 4 and tropen outer (especially since the tropens zipper spot is different) a single hard swipe still opened all three at once.
I agree...the british artic center zip is the dogz knackers...quick and snagproof opening
Imo snugpak's bags a great but its just the zippers that snags a bit but once you know how to close them its not really a problem.
The zips are a pain in the ****. The best thing I found was not to do the zip right up to the top.
@@shaunwild8797 I just flip the zipper tab to the inside and then hold the zipper with my thumb en index finger and then it wont snag at all.
@@Jakelol1980 I'll give that a try but to be honest with you it's put me off the bloody thing. lol. I just bought the British army sleep system which has a better zip.
Can't agree more. I've a great body warmer from them I've had for yonks and love it. This sleeping bag I've had for less time and it's the sodding zip that let's it down (I find it catching and clogging up the most irritating bit, to ge fair: once it's stuck it really sticks. Many a long fight with it: up and down). Now shoved in a dry bag and left in my motor as a just in case item (still usefull from time to time but that zip..!)
I’ve been using quilts, even in extremely cold conditions, for a number of years now. Once you learn to sleep in them, they’re lighter and more comfortable than a sleeping bag, and guess what: no zippers. I’m not sure why military systems don’t incorporate them more. It seems like the woobie is the only military iteration of this, but all the high speed solutions use a sleeping bag.
I've got their Special Forces system and I've found a way to close the bag reliably by putting my left hand below the zipper to keep the baffle out of the way. I guess it's hard to design a zipper that closes well with a baffle underneath. It opens up without any problems though. And I think an application of some dry lubricant will improve things.
That said, this system also has a separate zipper baffle that can close all three elements (both bags and the bivy) at once but I haven't tried it yet, maybe it also improves things.
Says they use two sided ykk zips, which ate normally pretty good quality.
I agree with you 100% on the zippers I own several snugpak sleeping bags and all of them have zipper issues.
I have had the Elite 2 for years
Yes the zipper gets stuck once in a while
But all the bags I have get stuck once in a while
Snugpak zips are a problem that’s been known about for years and I cannot believe that they are unaware of how people feel about this problem. One can only assume they are ignoring consumers and don’t give a crap about customer feedback. Crazy really when it would be so easy to fix.
Most of these companies are just too big and don't care. I at least try to help people save money.
My Softie was extremely warm and comfortable....................................................until the zipper split. Switched to a Wiggy's bag and never looked back.
I just use the Snugpak Elite 2 all year round. Clothing, the Snugpak Sleeka Softie jacket and British army Softie trousers make up the difference in winter.
I agree, the zips are rubbish - I have a Softie Hawk and the zip snags EVERY time I try to open or close it!!
Well, the price isn't bad, but that's a deal breaker for me too, if the zipper is crap, why bother. Thanks again for your honest reviews Randall. 👍
I'm so glad you said about the zipper. I've got the elite 1, it gets stuck and I swear it's on the wrong side. But apart from that it's lasted years!
the zip problem is not limited to this model only. I have several snugpaks and they all have the same issue.
Good to know. What about their Basecamp line?
@@GruntProof I have the jungle, elite 4 and SF 2 all three have the same issue the easiest one its the SF2 but the zip is in the middle. no first hand experience with the basecamp.
had 3 of them over the span of 15 years, ... would Not recommend them, unless its for a short term camping trip. Mine all failed after about 6 months of use, zips snag, but also i had the stitching in foot box area go too.
... the positives were at the time they were compact/lighter to carry and warm enough for most conditions.
I agree with your hatred of the snugpak zips, I've got a two snugpak bags and neither run smoothly when compared with my British medium weight bag.
What I'm hearing is: Yank military can't figure out zippers with baffles. They're baffling to them
Hey Randall, thanks for the review ! Can you do a review on the Wiggys marpat 0° bag ...thanks
Sure if they'll ever send me one 🤣
The snail of death lol! I've only ever used their Jungle bag wihich I got about 15 years ago. Not had any major issues, but like you I have a Carinthia Defence 4 and there is no comparison in terms of zipper quality and effectiveness. I mostly hammock camp so it's great having an easy to use central zip to minimize effort getting in and out and the Carinthia has this nailed. Snugpak make ok mid range kit but nothing special - definitely worth paying a little bit more for the really decent stuff imo. All the best from the UK, Andy
Thanks!
Not only zippers, shitty stitching hate most snugpak crap .
Lol yep I have had a snugpack bag for over ten years now a jacket and both are good on exercise except for the bloody zips .this is a problem they have had for so long why they haven't addressed this problem before I don't know . Atb .
Elite Survival System Recon bags have a very similar garbage zipper. Nice bags 2 thru 5
I alteted my softie 12 with a rugged center zip...SORTED! 😊👍
I have a snugpak jacket and have the same problem with the zipper.
Have you tried the Snugpak Special Forces 2 bag ?? that has a central zip
The baffle not withstanding, do you think slathering graphite on the zipper would help at all?
I might try that
Just swap the zipper with a beefier one, topped of with a non-brake zipper pull... .
I've bought a similar sleeping bag called Expedition from Snugpack with a sick (fake) Multicam looking material on the outside. I must agree with you that the zipper si kind of lame, and the webbing and buckles of the compression straps are kind of low cost, but for the price you pay, you can't find a sleeping bag for that temperature range. 70euros it's a steal for the quality you get. Another thing is the fact that the hollow fiber they use is not so easy to compress compared to other sleeping bags, that's why when you compress it you don't see much difference of size, but if you have a large pack, that's not an issue. But yes, I would pay 10euros extra for a better zipper :)
Good points
@@Matthew_Australia Yes, terrain something pattern, it looks very cool, that's why i bought it :)
This one ua-cam.com/video/cizyRM2Jg6M/v-deo.html
was about to buy one because last week, i actually managed to get cold while sleeping in my blanket for the first time! (don't you laugh, you'll get older as well).
probably won't because having to fiddle with the zipper is part of what drove me out of bags and into blankets in the first place.
thanks, you saved me some.
Happy to help!
@@GruntProof just went back and checked your other sleeping bag vids.
Do you have, after being pampered by your carinthia for all this time, a side-zip bag you can recommend?
Makes one wonder how much it would cost to have a #10 YKK Quickburst zipper installed to replace the original.
Yea I mean then I'd just buy a better bag
@@GruntProof I would have bought a Wiggys made with Climashield. Then again, I use a quilt most of the time. The fastest zipper is no zipper.
That last knife hand… so glad this wasn’t in 3D…
🤣🤣
I think I used to have one of their bags with zip baffle cuz I’m claustrophobic. Misplaced it during some moves, and I kinda miss it! Although I don’t think I’d actually use it due to going to down top quilts.
Semper Fi
Good review. I was considering this bag and now ill keep it mind but consider other options.
Mind doing a Helikon Tex Swagman Roll follow up review, second thoughts video ?
Thanks. It's still awesome!
Love your Vlogs Randell 💚
Agreed. Our boys need better
I got the same bag. Sake issue. Drives me lnsane. Have you tried elist systems Recon bags? I might buy one of those.
haven't heard of it
@@GruntProof i guess about 10 years ago Elite Systems Recon bags were made in Australia. Now it seems they are made in Cambodia. I might just stick with my MSS. That sucker keeps me warm at night. Im curious to see what bag you settle on next though
Thanks for the review Randal. Snugpak seems to have gone down bit in recent years for some reason but I'd rather go with the Carinthia system if I was in the market but I'm good with my Wiggys.
Nate
Thanks!
Good review
duct tape fixed it, but yes, the zippers are a pita.
Having to fiddle with something and cold fingers don’t go together. Thanks for the review. I see Bill left part of his laundry there . Have a great evening
Stoked! 😎
STOKED!
I use OmniCore Designs Modular sleep system which is basically a knock off of the US militarys modular sleep systems. It has those nice YKK zippers which make it so easy to get in and out of.
Cool
Have you tried Wiggy's sleeping bags? They're awesome!
been wanting to
Ever tried rubbing a bar of hand soap or wax on to the zipper?
So use it as a quilt I guess?
I'm going to say no, right off the bat. Lets see what you say. Yeah that's what I thought you would say. I hate the zipper as well. Other than that, it's not to bad. I'm glad I had the chance to use one before buying it. I know not to waste my money. I have an old military extreme cold arctic bag. It feels like you're carrying a bucket of bricks, but with a bivy I can sleep out in anything.
Thanks!
I really don’t like snug pac products
Can’t talk about sleeping bags unless you’ve used it in brecon
I can't afford really expensive gear but want realiability, did a lot of research and the Teton Sports Leef 0 degree has an emergency zipper. At least mine does. It'll rip right open like my son's mss.
Cool. I've been wanting to try out some Teton stuff
@@GruntProof the zippers are not as robust/large as the mss but Teton 0 degree will rip open. I tried your trick and was surprised. Tried 10 times in a row, no jamming.
Got my Carinthia 4 sleep system that’s all I can say
Dude....that thing is huge! 🤣
New software is looking good, bud! Great job!!
Thanks
Couldn’t agree more with every single point🏆 Had my Snugpak Elite 4 for well over a decade and finally upgraded to the Carinthia Def4.
For a little more money, it’s better in every way.
The baffle is great but I have fought with it and the zipper bite all too often. Sometimes you get trapped in the dmn thing and have to take a time out before tagging in for escape round 2.
Yes
The British army copy is half the price and as good as Carinthia def 4.
Snugpak are crap. Sorry but it just isn’t good enough for military use 🤷♂️🏴
@@Matthew_Australia as suggested in the reply above this, see if you can find the FECSA copy of the Def4.
Usually about £50 here and there are lots around from disposal auctions.
I picked up two of the FECSA tropen 1 season bags for £40 a piece and they are pretty good.
Not the same quality as Carinthia, but the escape zipper works and doesn’t snag👍🏻
Like every other company they moved a lot of manufacturing to china...surprise quality went down.
don't dry it too heavy
I did not understand
On a hot/long cycle. Low heat tumble
I'm glad I watched this video because I was thinking about buying one thanks!!!
Glad to help!
I agree with you 100 % .im getting a new zip on mine .apart from that. I like it 😀👍OUT
Put some paracord on the zipper
That helps find it in the dark but it still gets caught
Snugpak, mmmm still a piece of cheap crap. Special there stitching
Thanks. You saved me some serious $
Hahahaha @ maybe you ate a bad MRE and gotta get out quick 🤣💩💩💩💩💩💩oops didn’t make it
If you've ever had a bad MRE, you ain't laughing! Those things in the 80's were still half-poison! LOL
😄
sharing
Thanks!