The 535d has “torque restrictions” on the gearbox in first and second I believe which will seriously affect the launch (I’m also quite confident that all the ‘35ds were automatic as well? Correct me by all means if I am wrong!). I remember putting my foot down from standstill in an E91 335d and thinking to myself it was seriously lacking for a ~280hp motor (a friend who didn’t even own the car soon put me straight with the mention of torque limitation in 1st and 2nd on the ‘35ds). Later in the day on the highway I put my foot down and realised he must have been correct because it really did feel quite fast, easily reaching big numbers on the speedometer with little effort it seemed. If the 550i in this video is manual it’d be quite understandable that it was better from a standing start unless conditions favoured the diesel but I imagine (as I think is proved from the rolling start race) if the diesel was in 2nd or 3rd it would keep up or even take the lead up to low triple figures on the speedo. That’s when the 550 would gain the advantage as the power of the V8 is better at pushing through the wind than the torque from the turbo diesel. Anecdotal 1st hand experience: BMW E60 M5 V10 vs BMW F32 435d - Started at 60... ...up to 80-90 the 435d’s newer and faster gearbox and torque production at that specific speed got moving a lot quicker and had the advantage, climbing past 100-120 the M5 went passed the 435d like it had its brakes on. I can only put it down to the incredible torque that allowed the 435d to smoke the M5 from a standstill (almost embarrassing it I might add) but at the higher speeds where the drag/aerodynamics become a factor, the M5’s power just seemed to push through the wind with ease where the torque of the 435d (and reasonable power levels at ~310bhp let’s be honest not exactly low) struggled to keep the rate of speed increase up. ....Sorry I got carried away with my anecdote, hope someone at least enjoyed reading it... 👋 (P.S the M5 is mine and I was very much upset that my friends “little diesel” crushed it in a “spirited set off from the lights” lol. Revenge was soon had on the highway as you read above 😅 both are amazing cars but I’ll keep my beast over a new turbo car any day thanks 😉)
As far for power i would say 330-340hp...its clearly visible that it has modified exhaust as well...chip alone can give 320-330hp in 272hp e60 (safe level) with IC and exhaust its posible to get around 350-400hp but at this level its making 16-17s 0-200kmh. Lets face it..bmw makes shity v8's engines , last good one was propably s62b50 or m62b44. New ones with double vanos,valvetronic, unreliable cooling system and overal fragile construction arent good engines. With good maintance 535d will last propably over a milion km with BPU upgrades. M57 is solid engine..at least it was
A gasoline car is always going to pull faster than a diesel car ANY DAY (speaking stock vs stock) but the diesel is going to catch up really fast (especially if its a big engine)
its not true.. Guys please!!! Did you tested any non turbo big petrol engine? its like super comfty and make people happy. Diesel is uncomfty and make people sad. Hard to explain but its big true. Just no fear to buy big V6 or V8 petrol engine without any turbos. You will see a huge different. 4.4/4.8 V8 Athmosfere Petrol Engine is like a "god.. thanks that you made it" I had VW 1.9 TDi. That engine was really perfect like "dont worry I will work to forever" but was really uncomfty for me. So I bought car with 2.8 V6 Athmosfere petrol engine. Godness! So big difference! It was best choice what I done. Now I have BMW 550i 2009 (facelift) 4.8 V8 chipped with full. I am so happy for that. My friend has a BMW 330d and its like a tractor againts my car.
Check the fuel consumption, BMW 550 uses 16.4 l/100km (economy) and if your car is chipped i am pretty sure it will use 20+ l/100km. You can also tune diesel engines, it will be so fast and use less fuel than 550i ;)
der 535d raucht ganzschön... fehlt da etwa der DPF? Und dann noch das VfL modell... außerdem verliert der 535d nur weil kaum einer weiß das das Drehmoment am anfang gedrosselt wird um das getriebe zu schonen... das sieht man ganz deutlich... denn kurz nach dem start bleibt der 535d drann...
obenrum hat der 535d eh keine chance macht ma rennen ab 200 kmh bis 270 da rennt der 550i weg weil v8 4,8 liter erscheint in voller pracht 535d ist gechippt soll trotzdem hat er wie man sieht große probleme
Both cars are insane, 535 for daily use, 550i insane sound... But that's one hell of a cheap TUNE(chip) on 535d... Black smoke is unnecessary, it can be done easily without consuming 'extra amount' of fuel.
ofc 535d with remap is faster then 550i in fly start , if they start from 0 ofc the 550i is better its probably with smg gearbox too , and less nM got better start , u can see how on bouth starts the 535d is spinning way to much and lost because of it.
The diesel lost. Its a fact. They will never be as quick as gasoline ones. Leave the diesel for trucks and other heavy machinery. It just doesnt work like that.. gasoline= performance
@@kaiptaiboeg1298 wrong. tuned diesel can be a performance car as well. A tuned 535 is faster than a lot of stock m cars and amg’s and also a lot more reliable.
@@Beitinsh3 the diesel runs out of torque in specific rpm range while gasoline engine holds it really long. I mean if a diesel was meant for performance car makers wouldn't make ///m cars with gasoline engine, audi s, rs series would be all diesel as well i think its obvious
well firstly, gasoline engines produce more co2 than diesel engines. if you'd compare 535d and 550i pre lci co2 amounts (which is 211 vs 260 g/km), you will see that 550i is more dangerous to environment than 535d. secondly, co2 is colourless and the black smoke that you see are afterburn diesel particles which set down to the ground in some time and are dangerous in big cities only because they have lots of nox'es and cause various respiratory system malfunctions, lung cancers and so on, which in some ways are even good, because they kill such idiots like you
Oy my the 550i spits loads of stuff Fromond the back... just not visible dont get fooled. 535d has lower CO2 and lower consumption. Using less fuel must count for something toi doesnt it?
thats the point... gasoline engines are producing a bit less CO2, but the amount of burned fuel is bigger because the consumption is worse. so all in all, gasoline engine will produce more CO2 than the diesel. the diesel is responsible for the NOX particles
Unforgettable 001 This 535d have chip...i dont know how many horspower and tarque have this car after remaping...in google i dont see this information..
ещё пару заездов и трактор прийдётся перебирать. Всем по барабану ресурс двигателя заложенный при проектировке. В бмв лохи робатают, не догадываются о том на что способны их двигатели.
@@raivons правильно, тот кто проиграл, тот и быстрее. Видео показало. Железная логика. Трактор можно в SUV засовывать в performance car ему места нет. Если нет денег на заправку такую машину покупать не нужно.
Всмысле тупо сравнивать? Примерно равные по мощности машины. У 535d ход даже лучше, а с места проигрывал изза того что шлифовала, а у 550i широкая резина 275 и хороший зацеп.
@@Eygenidze так ты объясни что в этом сравнении не так? Что дизель не соперник по твойму или что? Набери в ютубе е60 535d stage 3, 100-200 быстрее чем у М5
It's because people are silly they really think the 535d has anything with the M5 even if did win u tuned it and its still not a M5. Bmw doesn't compare them people who own them try to. But the m5 kicks it after 150 it really gets going. Spend money for the G power supercharger and no modified 535d will touch it. People just like to dream its a part of being human. A 535 is a 535 and a M car is a M or 550 is a 550 don't compare and make fights and arguments, people love drama
что я только что посмтрел.... 530 дизель взьебет 530 бензин, а тут мотор 270 сил би турбо типа проебал какой-то бензинке, постыдились бы такое выкладывать
bmw turbodiesel has many problems systems failures and code diagrams too many damaged as Mercedes-Benz turbodiesel (V6 or common rail) was good mechanical design motorworking and more armored engine burnt by pure diesel without bio-diesel. BMW petrol engine is better and faster. I'm BMW of the history guy. If I can speak straightly word for BMW diesels sucks.
That beeing poland it used less fuel beating the 335d ;) since almost all cars in poland run on lpg and are tuned for lpg (cars tuned for lpg gain hp on lpg never loose , especially large engined cars)
Кульно! Мне уже кто только не усирался доказывая, что стоит только 535 немного чипануть и 550-ая судорожно глотает выхлопы. Теперь есть наглядный аргумент что это немного не так :). Спасибо авторам видео.
Илья Миронов "на хорошем чипе" - это тупо корч, а не 535д Предполагается, что машина должна проходить легальное ТО. А так, да, в каком-то конкретном диапазоне, раздутая до 280 кв, она поедет как М5.
+VonRodern только слепой не заметил что 535 с места не может, а на скорости одинаково едут, причем во втором заезде видно как немного догоняет 550 ну и в третьем со скорости едет быстрее\также. и нахер 550 тогда нужна? выгоднее 535 пкупать. ИМХО
Дмитрий Васильевич "не может", потому что это хрЕнова 535-ая, которая штатно едет 6,5 сек до 100, то бишь почти на секунду медленней 550-ой. Что там с ней потом нахреновертили - одно богу известно, и как закономерный итог этого, вечные сбои и "накладочки" при разгоне. Это и ответ зачем брать 550, второ момент в плюс 550-ой - их на немецком рынке с пробегом до 200 000 встречается порядочно, что нонсенс для 535-ой. Последнее видео - они едут роллом. Я не знаю на какой конертно скорости они тапку даванули, но старты в диапазоне 60-120 - это поддавки для дизеля. Все равно что для 550-ой снять ограничители и стартануть с 250 км/ч.
+VonRodern ты не учитываешь что атмосферный мотор со временем теряет мощность, что не сказать о турбо моторах у которых практически всегда остается заявленная мощь. Ну и да чип решает здесь тоже.
RivieraByBuick всё там вырезано мля не чеши чего не знаешь, живу в Литве, (на видео Латвия) один хрен с тех осмотром, чипуют и всё вырезают, ездит куча этих е60 чипованых по городу и все дымяТ
Водитель дизела не отключил esp,я на моем 530d,за просто справился бы с 550,ещё водитель 535d не знаем кто такой, есть три типа водителей,какой из них водитель 535d сперва это нужно знать
Deslike for the music. We wanna hear the car. This is so obvious!
Well the e65 sound sucks anyways.
The 535d has “torque restrictions” on the gearbox in first and second I believe which will seriously affect the launch (I’m also quite confident that all the ‘35ds were automatic as well? Correct me by all means if I am wrong!). I remember putting my foot down from standstill in an E91 335d and thinking to myself it was seriously lacking for a ~280hp motor (a friend who didn’t even own the car soon put me straight with the mention of torque limitation in 1st and 2nd on the ‘35ds). Later in the day on the highway I put my foot down and realised he must have been correct because it really did feel quite fast, easily reaching big numbers on the speedometer with little effort it seemed.
If the 550i in this video is manual it’d be quite understandable that it was better from a standing start unless conditions favoured the diesel but I imagine (as I think is proved from the rolling start race) if the diesel was in 2nd or 3rd it would keep up or even take the lead up to low triple figures on the speedo. That’s when the 550 would gain the advantage as the power of the V8 is better at pushing through the wind than the torque from the turbo diesel.
Anecdotal 1st hand experience:
BMW E60 M5 V10
vs
BMW F32 435d
- Started at 60...
...up to 80-90 the 435d’s newer and faster gearbox and torque production at that specific speed got moving a lot quicker and had the advantage, climbing past 100-120 the M5 went passed the 435d like it had its brakes on. I can only put it down to the incredible torque that allowed the 435d to smoke the M5 from a standstill (almost embarrassing it I might add) but at the higher speeds where the drag/aerodynamics become a factor, the M5’s power just seemed to push through the wind with ease where the torque of the 435d (and reasonable power levels at ~310bhp let’s be honest not exactly low) struggled to keep the rate of speed increase up.
....Sorry I got carried away with my anecdote, hope someone at least enjoyed reading it... 👋
(P.S the M5 is mine and I was very much upset that my friends “little diesel” crushed it in a “spirited set off from the lights” lol. Revenge was soon had on the highway as you read above 😅 both are amazing cars but I’ll keep my beast over a new turbo car any day thanks 😉)
Diesel is shit for retards.
That is real for a stock cars,little diference for spectator for me nothing
Amazing explanation
As far for power i would say 330-340hp...its clearly visible that it has modified exhaust
as well...chip alone can give 320-330hp in 272hp e60 (safe level) with
IC and exhaust its posible to get around 350-400hp but at this level its
making 16-17s 0-200kmh. Lets face it..bmw makes shity v8's engines ,
last good one was propably s62b50 or m62b44. New ones with double vanos,valvetronic, unreliable cooling system and overal fragile construction arent good engines. With good maintance 535d will last propably over a milion km with BPU upgrades. M57 is solid engine..at least it was
A gasoline car is always going to pull faster than a diesel car ANY DAY (speaking stock vs stock) but the diesel is going to catch up really fast (especially if its a big engine)
535d way better for daily usage
its not true.. Guys please!!! Did you tested any non turbo big petrol engine? its like super comfty and make people happy. Diesel is uncomfty and make people sad. Hard to explain but its big true. Just no fear to buy big V6 or V8 petrol engine without any turbos. You will see a huge different. 4.4/4.8 V8 Athmosfere Petrol Engine is like a "god.. thanks that you made it" I had VW 1.9 TDi. That engine was really perfect like "dont worry I will work to forever" but was really uncomfty for me. So I bought car with 2.8 V6 Athmosfere petrol engine. Godness! So big difference! It was best choice what I done. Now I have BMW 550i 2009 (facelift) 4.8 V8 chipped with full. I am so happy for that. My friend has a BMW 330d and its like a tractor againts my car.
Implying engine type has any effect whatsoever on comfort. Lol
Check the fuel consumption, BMW 550 uses 16.4 l/100km (economy) and if your car is chipped i am pretty sure it will use 20+ l/100km. You can also tune diesel engines, it will be so fast and use less fuel than 550i ;)
Bega you are right. my 535d remmaped, dpf delete and egr delete has 365hp/740nm and runs 12.3km/l in average
Danny B not true u can have economy and fast car.
der 535d raucht ganzschön... fehlt da etwa der DPF? Und dann noch das VfL modell... außerdem verliert der 535d nur weil kaum einer weiß das das Drehmoment am anfang gedrosselt wird um das getriebe zu schonen... das sieht man ganz deutlich... denn kurz nach dem start bleibt der 535d drann...
obenrum hat der 535d eh keine chance
macht ma rennen ab 200 kmh bis 270
da rennt der 550i weg weil v8 4,8 liter erscheint in voller pracht
535d ist gechippt soll trotzdem hat er wie man sieht große probleme
Both cars are insane, 535 for daily use, 550i insane sound... But that's one hell of a cheap TUNE(chip) on 535d... Black smoke is unnecessary, it can be done easily without consuming 'extra amount' of fuel.
BimmerBoss sure it can but you WILL lose some extra power when going smokeless. Gotta agree with your opinion on these cars tho!
Idk. I own a 535d and the fact that a 550i is faster dose not change on the fact that I love it
ofc 535d with remap is faster then 550i in fly start , if they start from 0 ofc the 550i is better its probably with smg gearbox too , and less nM got better start , u can see how on bouth starts the 535d is spinning way to much and lost because of it.
The diesel lost. Its a fact. They will never be as quick as gasoline ones. Leave the diesel for trucks and other heavy machinery. It just doesnt work like that.. gasoline= performance
@@kaiptaiboeg1298 wrong. tuned diesel can be a performance car as well. A tuned 535 is faster than a lot of stock m cars and amg’s and also a lot more reliable.
@@Beitinsh3 the diesel runs out of torque in specific rpm range while gasoline engine holds it really long. I mean if a diesel was meant for performance car makers wouldn't make ///m cars with gasoline engine, audi s, rs series would be all diesel as well i think its obvious
no way that d is stock. it has a chip
check the 0-60s on both there closer than you think
Yeah sherlock it is mentioned in the desc.. still 3.0 diesel without bolt on mods vs 4.8 petrol
it is chiped read the Video description an the dpf is deleted i think
How is possible 286 535d is the same with v8 550i the 550i I think depending of the person how he use the power
535 d is better to destroy this world fastly with that smoke out of the exhaust
BMW Master lol!
Idiot
well firstly, gasoline engines produce more co2 than diesel engines. if you'd compare 535d and 550i pre lci co2 amounts (which is 211 vs 260 g/km), you will see that 550i is more dangerous to environment than 535d. secondly, co2 is colourless and the black smoke that you see are afterburn diesel particles which set down to the ground in some time and are dangerous in big cities only because they have lots of nox'es and cause various respiratory system malfunctions, lung cancers and so on, which in some ways are even good, because they kill such idiots like you
Oy my the 550i spits loads of stuff Fromond the back... just not visible dont get fooled. 535d has lower CO2 and lower consumption. Using less fuel must count for something toi doesnt it?
thats the point... gasoline engines are producing a bit less CO2, but the amount of burned fuel is bigger because the consumption is worse. so all in all, gasoline engine will produce more CO2 than the diesel. the diesel is responsible for the NOX particles
5.50 istemezse yanına yaklaştırmaz lakin 5.35d hakkını vermek lazım
Подскажите пожалуйста название трэка.
what is the song?
на дизеле прокладку между рулем и сидением смените .. не позорьте дизель )
Это говно опозорено с рождения.
This diesel is a beast!
Трактор
whats the name of the sound track?
song?
Benzin 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
If îs true the 535d have stage 1 because 550i make 0-200 în 19 sec and 535 stock în 24 sec...
E60 is the love of my life.
road is way too narrow to race like that. damn. amazing cars though
Šis ir tā ka 535d pret 540, jeb 545 būtu labi bet 550i ir partraku! Tas ir kā salīdzināt m5 ar makitas skruvmašinu!
My chose is 550i👍
535d rulezz
And gasoline roasts any diesel any day :) I just fucking hate diesels so much smoke and a terrible tractor sound that makes you vomit but no point
@@kaiptaiboeg1298 v
morse moke than power..
Toms diner
How much hp and nm in 535d?
Unforgettable 001 This 535d have chip...i dont know how many horspower and tarque have this car after remaping...in google i dont see this information..
535d it's best...difference it is minimal...
ещё пару заездов и трактор прийдётся перебирать. Всем по барабану ресурс двигателя заложенный при проектировке. В бмв лохи робатают, не догадываются о том на что способны их двигатели.
museatex лох это ты а не те кто на бмв работает, иди поменяй лучше масло на своём москвиче ))))))))
этот владелец москвича наверное и не меняет масло)
я владелец двух 550i больше 6 лет и ещё пары японских динозавров. Будешь в штатах заезжай прокачу.
@@museatex111 e60 lci traktor bistree i bole ekonomni paetomu mozhna skazatj po amerkanski "jealous"
@@raivons правильно, тот кто проиграл, тот и быстрее. Видео показало. Железная логика. Трактор можно в SUV засовывать в performance car ему места нет. Если нет денег на заправку такую машину покупать не нужно.
miciuni
Diesel motors 💪🏻💪🏻
Who can stand a diesel clackidy clacky sound i just fucking hate it makes me sick
poor 3.5d :)
+Deividas Vaivada it actually a 3.0.
why poor? 535d is faster ;)
it is.. Mine is a monster =P feel free to check my channel.
Labi L nice...also check my chanel ;)
then look my chanel, its 525d with 250kw:)
Gasoline power...diesel is crap.
как же тупо сравнивать такие машины,вы бы сравнили ещё 520 с М5...
Всмысле тупо сравнивать? Примерно равные по мощности машины. У 535d ход даже лучше, а с места проигрывал изза того что шлифовала, а у 550i широкая резина 275 и хороший зацеп.
@@JE-fr7zu Ну у каждого своё мнение)
@@Eygenidze так ты объясни что в этом сравнении не так? Что дизель не соперник по твойму или что? Набери в ютубе е60 535d stage 3, 100-200 быстрее чем у М5
@@JE-fr7zu Вообще пофиг. Вонючий чадящий трактор.
It's because people are silly they really think the 535d has anything with the M5 even if did win u tuned it and its still not a M5. Bmw doesn't compare them people who own them try to. But the m5 kicks it after 150 it really gets going. Spend money for the G power supercharger and no modified 535d will touch it. People just like to dream its a part of being human. A 535 is a 535 and a M car is a M or 550 is a 550 don't compare and make fights and arguments, people love drama
Chip the 535d and 550 lose
turbo the 550 and it will fly
535d is after chip and cant win but if u do stronger chip 535d would win
bay bay diesel. nusprodukt of petrol
535 то дорест, рест ее дернет.
Дари Улыбку есть видео заездов или 0-100, 100-200? Интересно было бы посмотреть! Коллектора какие поставил? По впуску что-то делал?
@@ДариУлыбку-л1д благодарен за развёрнутый ответ! я сейчас как раз продаю 535d и беру 550i =)
Дари Улыбку а термостат реально на 82 или опечатка? На 92 мб?
We
Надеюсь, машины были на механике? Иначе, тест просто ни о чём.
535D Е60 не бывает на механике онли автомат.
такие машина на механике не делают, все автоматы.
Автомат у дизеля
Leo E36 есть и на механике
TATRA TRUCKS пиздиш, 535d небыло на механке
normāli nopists tas 535
Diezgan jā
Gailis
stupid vs..;550 is pa compaable avec un diesel
Я эти обе тачки порву на своём чипованном Форд Мондео 2.0i
Слишком толсто!)
что я только что посмтрел.... 530 дизель взьебет 530 бензин, а тут мотор 270 сил би турбо типа проебал какой-то бензинке, постыдились бы такое выкладывать
bmw turbodiesel has many problems systems failures and code diagrams too many damaged as Mercedes-Benz turbodiesel (V6 or common rail) was good mechanical design motorworking and more armored engine burnt by pure diesel without bio-diesel. BMW petrol engine is better and faster. I'm BMW of the history guy. If I can speak straightly word for BMW diesels sucks.
Truth
lol Wtf , love e60, drive one, but come on....just sh....t clip
2 turbochargers (535d) vs 0 turbochargers (550i)
3.0 vs 5.0 4,4
@@zamelus 4.8*
Наверно только я заметил, что 550 на иксдрайве?
Возможно
A 2010 US E60 550i is the best 5 series to date, the last of the NA V8’s! (caveat...after you’ve replaced the valve seals)
My 09 550i M-sport best sedan I’ve had so far.
the 535d lost times
less money to spend XD a turbo is installed
That beeing poland it used less fuel beating the 335d ;) since almost all cars in poland run on lpg and are tuned for lpg (cars tuned for lpg gain hp on lpg never loose , especially large engined cars)
@@BamiCodm since that smoke the 535d is tuned and de dpf’d
Кульно! Мне уже кто только не усирался доказывая, что стоит только 535 немного чипануть и 550-ая судорожно глотает выхлопы. Теперь есть наглядный аргумент что это немного не так :). Спасибо авторам видео.
+VonRodern 535д на хорошем чипе едет наравне с М5)
Илья Миронов "на хорошем чипе" - это тупо корч, а не 535д Предполагается, что машина должна проходить легальное ТО. А так, да, в каком-то конкретном диапазоне, раздутая до 280 кв, она поедет как М5.
+VonRodern только слепой не заметил что 535 с места не может, а на скорости одинаково едут, причем во втором заезде видно как немного догоняет 550 ну и в третьем со скорости едет быстрее\также. и нахер 550 тогда нужна? выгоднее 535 пкупать. ИМХО
Дмитрий Васильевич "не может", потому что это хрЕнова 535-ая, которая штатно едет 6,5 сек до 100, то бишь почти на секунду медленней 550-ой. Что там с ней потом нахреновертили - одно богу известно, и как закономерный итог этого, вечные сбои и "накладочки" при разгоне. Это и ответ зачем брать 550, второ момент в плюс 550-ой - их на немецком рынке с пробегом до 200 000 встречается порядочно, что нонсенс для 535-ой. Последнее видео - они едут роллом. Я не знаю на какой конертно скорости они тапку даванули, но старты в диапазоне 60-120 - это поддавки для дизеля. Все равно что для 550-ой снять ограничители и стартануть с 250 км/ч.
+VonRodern ты не учитываешь что атмосферный мотор со временем теряет мощность, что не сказать о турбо моторах у которых практически всегда остается заявленная мощь. Ну и да чип решает здесь тоже.
The 535 have engine Problems i can see it
Ну и дымит...
Sviatoslav Savchuk дымит потому что выкинули сажевый фильтр, и каты вырезали, пора бы уже это знать)
Turbo hole :)
+Адекватный Фанат BMW
нихуя там не вырезали. эта машина с техосмотром. это тебе не россия.
RivieraByBuick
всё там вырезано мля не чеши чего не знаешь, живу в Литве, (на видео Латвия) один хрен с тех осмотром, чипуют и всё вырезают, ездит куча этих е60 чипованых по городу и все дымяТ
я здесь живу, и знаю на чем можно пройти, а на чем нет. сиди в своей литве и молчи блять.
Водитель дизела не отключил esp,я на моем 530d,за просто справился бы с 550,ещё водитель 535d не знаем кто такой, есть три типа водителей,какой из них водитель 535d сперва это нужно знать