We take a mill table that had many drill holes in it, and fix it with a metal insert, by tapping and filling with bolts, and with metal-infused epoxy .
I would send that table out to get machined after the saddle and the knee gets scraped. It's a shame to put a ton of work into this project and end up with a drill press.
I know, right? How would you even go about making such a hole in it. You would have to use an endmill greater than 1 inch diameter and then walk away from the machine and let it destroy itself! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing. I don’t know enough about what your doing to know or help you, but I looks great. Most guys put covers to keep the clips out of the tee slots.
I made some in the past using a 3D printer. But then I found that the hot chips would melt into them, and that wasn't helpful. I think I need to get around to making some more covers out of a different material. Great suggestion! Thanks for watching.
I've been watching along as you go; it's always interesting. You were several weeks ahead of me on the South Bend, and now a similar situation on the mill. Considering the belt sanding I'm thinking 5 - 10 thousandths is probably not bad. Later you'll just need to get a LARGER mill so you can mill the bridgeport table!!
There used to be a machine shop in my area with a surface grinder large enough to accommodate the table. But it shut down, so that is out. At some point I have to decide the cost vs benefit, and I'm with you: 10 thousandths is probably fine. At some point, I'm going to put an indicator in and see if the vice is tilted because of that hole. If so, I could put shim stock under one side etc. For now, I don't need that level of precision. Thanks for watching!
Thank you. Part of me would like to get it completely flat, and my sanding probably made that worse. But there is just something demoralizing about having the table so ugly. So overall, I feel much better about it now. Thanks for watching.
Hmmm, quite the interesting pattern in the table surface... Kinda reminiscent of some flaking finishes for reducing of surface drag and allowing fine dust and micro chips to not be an issue... Tho damn it man, an angle grinder spraying dust on the ways of the machine... YIKES! That is some industry grade sin right there... I get that you wanted to shorten the work, but a decent jig saw or similar would have been much more machine friendly than a zip disc... A handheld hacksaw blade in a welding glove would be my choice of weapon to have that screw loose it`s head... Would take time, but im severely allergic to grit or h2o compounds in the shop... Speaking of grinding dust - I`m just in the process of restoring a pedal-kick-press, and I spent like 3 hours with an angle grinder in the yard today, foolishly hoping i would at least finish one le(i)g of the machine stand and start the other, but nah, 3 hours in, i was so covered in paint dust and cast iron powder to the point where i looked like a coal miner, and the le(i)g was still not even finished... I recorded some, thinking i would get back to recording when i was near done to spare the camera all the airborne iron dust, but i just chucked the leg in the fab. shop along with the grinder and took a shower in the basement(fab shop floor), vacuumed the whole shop, cleaned all the iron dust and crap - just to prevent the TIG welder from snorting a line of the good stuff while i`m not looking and dying on me the next time i connect it to the power, and keep in mind that i didn`t grind indoors, it was done outside, i just took the leg and the grinder in when i was done - walking in as i was, shedding crap all over despite brushing my uniform off and wiping the leg and the grinder... You can`t just whip the angle grinder out like that around a precision machine, or any sensitive tool in general... It`s a damn fast tool, but it`s nature renders it an outdoors type tool in most cases(lest you have a vacuum grinding table which sucks up any and all dust generated while allowing you both grind and weld large pieces on it without huffing grit or fumes - look those up, they are a fantastic project - one that i started, but am delaying, as per usual...)... The ``le(i)g`` is a sopranos reference... All the best and kind regards! Also, if i forgot to say it, keep that grinder away from those poor machines... Steuss
Yikes! I didn't even think about spraying grinding dust onto the ways. I'll have to make sure to wipe it all down. I hope your project comes out OK. Best wishes.
Hi Kevin. When you checked the table with your DTI you had the stylus at the wrong angle. This introduces cosine error. You need the stylus parallel with the table to get a more accurate reading. Best Wishes.
I had to go back and check the video, and you are right. I had the stylus of that indicator at about 30 degrees. I found this video by Joe Pie that talks about it. ua-cam.com/video/dsWSxpwCPUg/v-deo.html Looks like it is important to have the tip of the indicator as parallel to the surface as possible. If within 10%, it will give error of 1.5% according to wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosine_error 'm still not sure if my error was to overestimate or underestimate how much variance there was with that table. But thanks for pointing this out. I'll try to better next time!.
Consider using tapered pipe plugs of the appropriate size to plug your holes in the table. Not the recessed hex type, but the protruding square head type. They would self tighten and leave a almost undetectable spot where they were installed after milling the table flat.
I hava a really nice 9-42 B.P. from the early 80's. The table however, was used by a 300# APE ! it has what i call "Aprentice marks" all over it and a few areas where the T-slots were broken due to improper useage, then welded back up. All said and done, it's a great mill that i can hold .0006 if i try really hard, and don't worry about that 1st ding. Once you verify the head is perfectly trammed, run a big fly cutter across it. That'll true it back to about as good as you'll need.
Serious question: how would you cover the entire table? When I put the table all the way to the right or left, there is always about 8 inches or more out of the reach of the cutter. So would you just have to have a fly cutter with 18 inches diameter?? Also, since tables tend to sag when all the way to one side, wouldn't that keep the top from being flat? Maybe it wouldn't matter as long as the sag is always the same?? Thanks for feedback.
Yes, that is a good point/observation. Once trammed, the head can be swung (rotated on the column) with minor deviation, and though it's not perfect, it's a way to clean up the table. Better than a belt sander for sure ! Or,... an 18" fly cutter, or scrape it. Mine needs more than the labor I'm willing to put into it so I may replace it altogether at some point. Until then, it's good enough for the girls I go out with.
Can you tell me more about this. I initially wanted to weld mine, but everyone told me that the heat would make the cast iron crack. How did you do it?
@@KevinToppenbergI’m not the one you asked to question to but I’ve welded a cast iron crank with good results. I used cast iron specific electrodes (nickel alloy) in a stick welder. It is definitely possible to weld cast iron but you have to be extra careful to prevent cracking and overheating. The key is to preheat it, which is possible using a torch, to somewhere between 500 and 1200° but not above 1400 Fahrenheit. Cast iron is also prone to overheating so the weld beads has to be quite short, about an inch (or 10 times the electrode diameter) and using the lowest possible amperage.
@@KevinToppenberg I looked at the history of Wooly Willy and by golly- its metal shavings from the factory floor where the creator worked. How ya like them apples?!
Not sure about placing the surface plate on the table. A plate has a precise surface, but it it guaranteed to be parallel top and bottom? I wouldn't think so.
You are right. I think the bottom of the plate is somewhat rough and not finished. The reason I use it is because I have seen others online use a flat piece of metal. And I didn't have that, so thought the plate would be second best. I seem to keep running into situations where I don't have the right tools. So I try to use second best, and then get less than ideal outcomes. 😞 Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it!
I swear Kevin it seems like we have the same mills. Mine is a 1954 round ram. I will post videos soon. My table seems just as bad. You did an amazing job on that table. I am going to try this stuff I used when I restored vintage cars in the 90s. It’s basically like a Bondo but all metal. ( metal to metal I think it’s called ) It’s best to put it on as smooth as possible because it’s basically like welding the holes. It’s extremely strong and will act like metal. Sands just like metal. Anyway keep up the great work. It looks so nice……Rod.
I used something called ALL METAL. it really works great. I definitely suggest putting it on thin. It will shrink a little but it’s like sanding metal. It’s a little harder to sand. You definitely should use guide coat to sand it off. Just makes it easier to see… I thought I replied before. Sorry…
@@jeremyfreeman1860 Looks like this is the page for this. Very interesting! www.alvinproducts.com/Product-Line/agentType/View/ProductID/6/Hi-Temp-Lab-metal
Easy way to pick up the iron filings and leave the nonmagnetic bits behind is to put a magnet inside a thin plastic bag. Pick up the filings, invert the bag around them and remove the magnet. When adding filler to WEST epoxy they recommend putting a thin layer of unaltered epoxy down first. It sticks to the substrate better without the filler and the thickened epoxy bonds well to the unaltered epoxy.
The suggestion of the plastic bag is genius! I'll have to remember that one. Regarding the epoxy, I found this video ua-cam.com/video/XObmZIbHOzY/v-deo.htmlsi=UzGXsfZM0SOdDSz_ where the man compares epoxies. It confirms what you are saying about the problem of adherence. As I recall, many of the failures of the epoxies were due to separation from the material, rather than it breaking on its own. So thank you for the feedback! Best wishes.
Suggestion, possibly I was wondering why you are trying to level the hard way, When I would have used an extended micrometer attached to the rotor headed Swept it around at all 4 corners, then once it is a close as one can get it, Use a fly cutter to level the top nice and clean, after having done the guides under the table first/. But would it matter as the table would always travel the same plane, to both ends in the X and Y directions.
I have been thinking about this. My concern is that the bed sags and varies in z-height as it goes through its range of travel. If I keep the bed in the center and then use an extended micrometer to reach to the edges, would that tell me how it was going to behave when I moved that edge of the table closer to the middle? Ultimately, I need to get the dovetails all machined flat so I have more confidence. If I move the bed all the way to one side, say to the right, then the center of the spindle is still about 8 inches away from the edge of the bed. So regarding a fly cutter, I would either have to have a fly cutter with a radius of 8 inches, or rotate the entire turret and ram to get the spindle closer to the edge. With the large radius cutter, I think I would have too much chatter unless I made a very massive and huge fly cutter. And regarding rotating the turret, I have done this while machining a 36" straight edge (Hint: there may be an upcoming video about this), only to find that there is a step in the resulting surface between the head rotated 30 degrees to each side. I think most of this is coming from table sag, but regardless, I currently don't trust this enough to proceed. I'll keep thinking about this, and if you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them. Best wishes. Kevin
@@KevinToppenberg I'm no exert, but after giving it some thought If i were doing and i'm not I don't think I would use a fly cutter, I think if the guides etc holding the table u are actually flat and true, I would put the spindle dead center and use the largest diameter i have and rotate it around measuring the table and center it to the average height knowing my head was perfectly 90 degrees in all planes, Then because of fly cutters may bend or flex when spinning, I would probably use a small diameter endmill to recut the whole surface. I would suspect the bed to be true to the head and the head to be at a perpendicular as possible Check with a more educated person than myself. Confirm what you have done with them before you do any cutting, Present what i said and if they think that is ok, then your own your own, and it should be ok I'm just about extinct in age and must check with more up to date machinists.
@@CMAenergy Well, I have a few other tasks on my to-do list, but when I come back to this, I will certainly consider what you have said, and also check with others. Best wishes!
That is an interesting idea. The problem is that the table sags as it goes left-right (x axis). So I think that it wouldn't end up truly flat. I think it needs to be done independent of the wear on other parts of the machine. FYI, I have since purchased a surface plate larger than the bed, so I might be able to get it flat using that. But that would be a big project. Thanks for the feedback!
Well, I just went down a rabbit hole. At first, I thought JB Weld was similar to other 2-part epoxy's. Then I found this site www.jbweld.com/products that lists all their products, and indeed there are a few that say "Steel reinforced." If I click on these products, there is a way to get the material data safety sheet which lists the ingredients, for example here: dynamix-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/jbweldcom/jbweldcom_513776135.pdf The only metals that I can find as additives are Barium (a soft metal) and titanium dioxide. Titanium is a strong metal and seems like a cool ingredient to have. But it's not ferrous, and it seems disingenuous if the company call is using this to justify calling their product "steel" reinforced. Furthermore this site en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide seems to indicate that titanium dioxide is more likely to be a colorizing pigment than a structural component. All told, I don't think JB Weld really gets any strength from added metals. I could be wrong and would love to find out more information. Having said that, I don't know that my iron shavings put into the epoxy added any strength either. One could argue that added material may interfere with the epoxy and lead to a degraded bond. On my prior mill restoration I did use JB weld, so thought I would try something different this time. Honestly, both turned out about the same. Thanks for the feedback!
@@KevinToppenberg I’m just happy to hear from someone else with a penchant for rabbit holes! I think the MSDS is only required to list potentially hazardous materials, which might be a loophole for JB Weld. That said, I have no idea what it really contains - or if it is just another epoxy. Thanks for the info!
I just got another viewer that commented in this same vein. But when I came here to reply, the post seems to have been deleted. He recommended a product named "Devcon plastic steel putty" that I had not heard of before. I did some searching and found this cool video where several similar products are reviewed. ua-cam.com/video/XObmZIbHOzY/v-deo.htmlsi=m60Tsie9vUI6I0ht It seems that the quick-drying epoxy glues didn't stick well to the underlying steel very well. The Devcon and Original JB weld seemed to do the best.
Very interesting and pertinent to my situation. All those holes on the mill table - isn't it supposed to be hardened? I made a dent in my Bridgeport clone with a normal HSS drill. Surprised me how soft the table is. On the other hand the inside edges of the T slots are dead hard. (and rough). I couldn't true them up to take accurate locating pins.
Well, the table is made of cast iron, I believe. I suspect that it is case (surface) hardened somehow. And I think I may have gone down through that when trying to resurface it. But this table seems soft to me. Thanks for watching.
I'm pretty sure it is cast iron. I would have loved to use welding instead of epoxy. But I was afraid I would cause more harm than good with welding. :-(
Brazing would be the proper way to repair cast iron. But my understanding is that one needs to heat up all the surrounding metal evenly first. And that would take a considerable amount of heat given the sheer mass of the table. And I was ultimately concerned that all that heat would warp the table and leave me worse off than when I started. Having said that, if it was successful, it would have been a much nicer repair. Thanks for watching!
Scraping is where the surface of the metal is scraped off to achieve flatness. Flaking is the process of putting in very light scrapes such that oil is retained, making for better sliding between two pieces. Thanks for watching.
Certainly abused! The company I bought it from had gone out of business. They were apparently making parts for subway cars that they didn't have a right to, i.e. patent conflict. And they reportedly got caught and that put an end to them. But who knows where the mill came from before that? Thanks for the feedback.
tram it in again and fly cut it. good as a surface grind. good enough doesn,t make it. the day will come when you say " i can,t make this, my mill won,t hold tolerance"
Serious question: How would I go about this? My table won't travel enough for a fly cutter to reach each end in one setup. I can loosen the turret and rotate the ram, but that becomes a different setup, and I am not sure that I won't end up with a several thousandth's step between fly cutting the different parts of the table. How would you go about this? Thanks for the feedback
That's a good idea. Except I don't really like the idea of having my table sticking way out on one side. I am considering trying to work more to get a flatter surface. Thanks for the feedback!
It seems like you are romantically attached to that table. I think there is a point where you have to throw in the towel back up and search for a replacement table... the rest of the mill is a showpiece.... the table... will always be a disaster, covered up by blood sweat and tears. Great work though.
I thought about welding, and I looked into it. I even found a video of some guy in Korea plugging all the holes with a MIG welder. But everyone I personally asked about it looked at me in horror because cast iron doesn't well well. I think the area that gets heated pulls away from the part that is not heated. So then to avoid this, you have to preheat the entire table. And that then requires some sort of giant oven which I don't have. And if I did get it all that hot, I worried that the entire table might warp. So since it is all just cosmetic, I compromised with epoxy. I have done this on a prior Bridgeport clone, and much of it pops loose after about a year. But no harm done. Best wishes, Kevin
I applaud his enthusiasm and willingness to just dive in, but most of the cosmetic work he did only made the table worse. Willy-nilly adding flaking to the ways is just adding wear. You might feel better because it looks more like an unworn machine. Its also what unscrupulous sellers do to clapped out Bridgeports. Belt sanding the table top is an even worse idea.
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A big improvement for the table top. What a great workshop you have !
Thank you for the kind words. I keep trying to make the shop better!
I would send that table out to get machined after the saddle and the knee gets scraped. It's a shame to put a ton of work into this project and end up with a drill press.
I agree. It would be very nice to have everything properly machined and square and flat!
I feel like although this comment is correct, any improvement you make to this bridgeport, is STILL an improvement. Keep chuggin!
I don't know what they did to this poor table but they sure did it wthh conviction.
It's nice to see it's in good hands now.
I know, right? How would you even go about making such a hole in it. You would have to use an endmill greater than 1 inch diameter and then walk away from the machine and let it destroy itself! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing. I don’t know enough about what your doing to know or help you, but I looks great. Most guys put covers to keep the clips out of the tee slots.
I made some in the past using a 3D printer. But then I found that the hot chips would melt into them, and that wasn't helpful. I think I need to get around to making some more covers out of a different material. Great suggestion! Thanks for watching.
Copper sheet is easy to work with, and would look awesome…
@@jeremyfreeman1860 Yeah, that would look awesome!
I've been watching along as you go; it's always interesting. You were several weeks ahead of me on the South Bend, and now a similar situation on the mill. Considering the belt sanding I'm thinking 5 - 10 thousandths is probably not bad. Later you'll just need to get a LARGER mill so you can mill the bridgeport table!!
There used to be a machine shop in my area with a surface grinder large enough to accommodate the table. But it shut down, so that is out. At some point I have to decide the cost vs benefit, and I'm with you: 10 thousandths is probably fine. At some point, I'm going to put an indicator in and see if the vice is tilted because of that hole. If so, I could put shim stock under one side etc. For now, I don't need that level of precision. Thanks for watching!
Exactly, you can easily shim the vise to get it as true as you need.
Nice repear on the table Kevin. It's looking good now.
Thank you. Part of me would like to get it completely flat, and my sanding probably made that worse. But there is just something demoralizing about having the table so ugly. So overall, I feel much better about it now. Thanks for watching.
Hmmm, quite the interesting pattern in the table surface... Kinda reminiscent of some flaking finishes for reducing of surface drag and allowing fine dust and micro chips to not be an issue...
Tho damn it man, an angle grinder spraying dust on the ways of the machine... YIKES! That is some industry grade sin right there... I get that you wanted to shorten the work, but a decent jig saw or similar would have been much more machine friendly than a zip disc... A handheld hacksaw blade in a welding glove would be my choice of weapon to have that screw loose it`s head... Would take time, but im severely allergic to grit or h2o compounds in the shop...
Speaking of grinding dust - I`m just in the process of restoring a pedal-kick-press, and I spent like 3 hours with an angle grinder in the yard today, foolishly hoping i would at least finish one le(i)g of the machine stand and start the other, but nah, 3 hours in, i was so covered in paint dust and cast iron powder to the point where i looked like a coal miner, and the le(i)g was still not even finished... I recorded some, thinking i would get back to recording when i was near done to spare the camera all the airborne iron dust, but i just chucked the leg in the fab. shop along with the grinder and took a shower in the basement(fab shop floor), vacuumed the whole shop, cleaned all the iron dust and crap - just to prevent the TIG welder from snorting a line of the good stuff while i`m not looking and dying on me the next time i connect it to the power, and keep in mind that i didn`t grind indoors, it was done outside, i just took the leg and the grinder in when i was done - walking in as i was, shedding crap all over despite brushing my uniform off and wiping the leg and the grinder...
You can`t just whip the angle grinder out like that around a precision machine, or any sensitive tool in general... It`s a damn fast tool, but it`s nature renders it an outdoors type tool in most cases(lest you have a vacuum grinding table which sucks up any and all dust generated while allowing you both grind and weld large pieces on it without huffing grit or fumes - look those up, they are a fantastic project - one that i started, but am delaying, as per usual...)...
The ``le(i)g`` is a sopranos reference...
All the best and kind regards! Also, if i forgot to say it, keep that grinder away from those poor machines...
Steuss
Yikes! I didn't even think about spraying grinding dust onto the ways. I'll have to make sure to wipe it all down. I hope your project comes out OK. Best wishes.
Hi Kevin.
When you checked the table with your DTI you had the stylus at the wrong angle. This introduces cosine error.
You need the stylus parallel with the table to get a more accurate reading. Best Wishes.
I had to go back and check the video, and you are right. I had the stylus of that indicator at about 30 degrees. I found this video by Joe Pie that talks about it. ua-cam.com/video/dsWSxpwCPUg/v-deo.html Looks like it is important to have the tip of the indicator as parallel to the surface as possible. If within 10%, it will give error of 1.5% according to wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosine_error
'm still not sure if my error was to overestimate or underestimate how much variance there was with that table. But thanks for pointing this out. I'll try to better next time!.
Consider using tapered pipe plugs of the appropriate size to plug your holes in the table. Not the recessed hex type, but the protruding square head type. They would self tighten and leave a almost undetectable spot where they were installed after milling the table flat.
I hadn't thought of using tapered threads. But it is a great idea. Thanks!
I hava a really nice 9-42 B.P. from the early 80's. The table however, was used by a 300# APE ! it has what i call "Aprentice marks" all over it and a few areas where the T-slots were broken due to improper useage, then welded back up. All said and done, it's a great mill that i can hold .0006 if i try really hard, and don't worry about that 1st ding.
Once you verify the head is perfectly trammed, run a big fly cutter across it. That'll true it back to about as good as you'll need.
Serious question: how would you cover the entire table? When I put the table all the way to the right or left, there is always about 8 inches or more out of the reach of the cutter. So would you just have to have a fly cutter with 18 inches diameter?? Also, since tables tend to sag when all the way to one side, wouldn't that keep the top from being flat? Maybe it wouldn't matter as long as the sag is always the same?? Thanks for feedback.
Yes, that is a good point/observation. Once trammed, the head can be swung (rotated on the column) with minor deviation, and though it's not perfect, it's a way to clean up the table. Better than a belt sander for sure ! Or,... an 18" fly cutter, or scrape it. Mine needs more than the labor I'm willing to put into it so I may replace it altogether at some point. Until then, it's good enough for the girls I go out with.
@@manmachinemake3708 "Good enough for the girls I go out with". LOL! 🙂
I welded mine and fly cut the whole table. Very good results.
Can you tell me more about this. I initially wanted to weld mine, but everyone told me that the heat would make the cast iron crack. How did you do it?
@@KevinToppenbergI’m not the one you asked to question to but I’ve welded a cast iron crank with good results. I used cast iron specific electrodes (nickel alloy) in a stick welder.
It is definitely possible to weld cast iron but you have to be extra careful to prevent cracking and overheating. The key is to preheat it, which is possible using a torch, to somewhere between 500 and 1200° but not above 1400 Fahrenheit.
Cast iron is also prone to overheating so the weld beads has to be quite short, about an inch (or 10 times the electrode diameter) and using the lowest possible amperage.
@@Tidexon This is great information. Thanks. But I'm not sure I have the tools or skills to do that. Maybe next time. 🙂
Those grinding filings remind me of the kids toy “Wooly Willy”. 😀
I had forgotten about that toy. Had to go look it up. Ha! Thanks for watching.
@@KevinToppenberg I looked at the history of Wooly Willy and by golly- its metal shavings from the factory floor where the creator worked. How ya like them apples?!
Not sure about placing the surface plate on the table. A plate has a precise surface, but it it guaranteed to be parallel top and bottom? I wouldn't think so.
You are right. I think the bottom of the plate is somewhat rough and not finished. The reason I use it is because I have seen others online use a flat piece of metal. And I didn't have that, so thought the plate would be second best. I seem to keep running into situations where I don't have the right tools. So I try to use second best, and then get less than ideal outcomes. 😞 Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it!
Thanks for your videos im currently doing the same with my tabe may i ask where you got your oil lines from please thanks Andrew
Thanks. I bought mine here: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=One%20Set%20Lubricating%20Oil%20Pump%20Hand-Actuated%20Router%20Electromagnetic%20Lubrication%20H
I swear Kevin it seems like we have the same mills. Mine is a 1954 round ram. I will post videos soon. My table seems just as bad. You did an amazing job on that table. I am going to try this stuff I used when I restored vintage cars in the 90s. It’s basically like a Bondo but all metal. ( metal to metal I think it’s called ) It’s best to put it on as smooth as possible because it’s basically like welding the holes. It’s extremely strong and will act like metal. Sands just like metal. Anyway keep up the great work. It looks so nice……Rod.
For my future reference, can you tell me the name of that product? I'd love to know. Best wishes!
Called “high temp lab metal”
I used something called ALL METAL. it really works great. I definitely suggest putting it on thin. It will shrink a little but it’s like sanding metal. It’s a little harder to sand. You definitely should use guide coat to sand it off. Just makes it easier to see… I thought I replied before. Sorry…
Lab metal and all metal very similar formulas:)
@@jeremyfreeman1860 Looks like this is the page for this. Very interesting! www.alvinproducts.com/Product-Line/agentType/View/ProductID/6/Hi-Temp-Lab-metal
Easy way to pick up the iron filings and leave the nonmagnetic bits behind is to put a magnet inside a thin plastic bag. Pick up the filings, invert the bag around them and remove the magnet.
When adding filler to WEST epoxy they recommend putting a thin layer of unaltered epoxy down first. It sticks to the substrate better without the filler and the thickened epoxy bonds well to the unaltered epoxy.
The suggestion of the plastic bag is genius! I'll have to remember that one.
Regarding the epoxy, I found this video ua-cam.com/video/XObmZIbHOzY/v-deo.htmlsi=UzGXsfZM0SOdDSz_ where the man compares epoxies. It confirms what you are saying about the problem of adherence. As I recall, many of the failures of the epoxies were due to separation from the material, rather than it breaking on its own. So thank you for the feedback!
Best wishes.
Suggestion, possibly
I was wondering why you are trying to level the hard way,
When I would have used an extended micrometer attached to the rotor headed
Swept it around at all 4 corners, then once it is a close as one can get it,
Use a fly cutter to level the top nice and clean, after having done the guides under the table first/.
But would it matter as the table would always travel the same plane, to both ends in the X and Y directions.
I have been thinking about this. My concern is that the bed sags and varies in z-height as it goes through its range of travel. If I keep the bed in the center and then use an extended micrometer to reach to the edges, would that tell me how it was going to behave when I moved that edge of the table closer to the middle? Ultimately, I need to get the dovetails all machined flat so I have more confidence. If I move the bed all the way to one side, say to the right, then the center of the spindle is still about 8 inches away from the edge of the bed. So regarding a fly cutter, I would either have to have a fly cutter with a radius of 8 inches, or rotate the entire turret and ram to get the spindle closer to the edge. With the large radius cutter, I think I would have too much chatter unless I made a very massive and huge fly cutter. And regarding rotating the turret, I have done this while machining a 36" straight edge (Hint: there may be an upcoming video about this), only to find that there is a step in the resulting surface between the head rotated 30 degrees to each side. I think most of this is coming from table sag, but regardless, I currently don't trust this enough to proceed. I'll keep thinking about this, and if you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them. Best wishes. Kevin
@@KevinToppenberg I'm no exert, but after giving it some thought
If i were doing and i'm not
I don't think I would use a fly cutter,
I think if the guides etc holding the table u are actually flat and true,
I would put the spindle dead center and use the largest diameter i have and rotate it around measuring the table and center it to the average height knowing my head was perfectly 90 degrees in all planes,
Then because of fly cutters may bend or flex when spinning,
I would probably use a small diameter endmill to recut the whole surface.
I would suspect the bed to be true to the head and the head to be at a perpendicular as possible
Check with a more educated person than myself. Confirm what you have done with them before you do any cutting,
Present what i said and if they think that is ok, then your own your own, and it should be ok
I'm just about extinct in age and must check with more up to date machinists.
@@CMAenergy Well, I have a few other tasks on my to-do list, but when I come back to this, I will certainly consider what you have said, and also check with others. Best wishes!
That poor table, you'll end up with a useable tool though. Gotta do what you gotta do.👍
Yeah. If I was a better machinist, I might want to just upgrade to something better. But I think it will serve me well. Best wishes!
can you put a grinding wheel in the chuck and grind the table flat ???
That is an interesting idea. The problem is that the table sags as it goes left-right (x axis). So I think that it wouldn't end up truly flat. I think it needs to be done independent of the wear on other parts of the machine. FYI, I have since purchased a surface plate larger than the bed, so I might be able to get it flat using that. But that would be a big project. Thanks for the feedback!
The mix of iron filings and epoxy is essentially the JB Weld product, although they have probably tuned the mix of grain size to optimum.
Well, I just went down a rabbit hole. At first, I thought JB Weld was similar to other 2-part epoxy's. Then I found this site www.jbweld.com/products that lists all their products, and indeed there are a few that say "Steel reinforced." If I click on these products, there is a way to get the material data safety sheet which lists the ingredients, for example here: dynamix-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/jbweldcom/jbweldcom_513776135.pdf The only metals that I can find as additives are Barium (a soft metal) and titanium dioxide. Titanium is a strong metal and seems like a cool ingredient to have. But it's not ferrous, and it seems disingenuous if the company call is using this to justify calling their product "steel" reinforced. Furthermore this site en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide seems to indicate that titanium dioxide is more likely to be a colorizing pigment than a structural component. All told, I don't think JB Weld really gets any strength from added metals. I could be wrong and would love to find out more information. Having said that, I don't know that my iron shavings put into the epoxy added any strength either. One could argue that added material may interfere with the epoxy and lead to a degraded bond. On my prior mill restoration I did use JB weld, so thought I would try something different this time. Honestly, both turned out about the same. Thanks for the feedback!
@@KevinToppenberg I’m just happy to hear from someone else with a penchant for rabbit holes! I think the MSDS is only required to list potentially hazardous materials, which might be a loophole for JB Weld. That said, I have no idea what it really contains - or if it is just another epoxy. Thanks for the info!
I just got another viewer that commented in this same vein. But when I came here to reply, the post seems to have been deleted. He recommended a product named "Devcon plastic steel putty" that I had not heard of before. I did some searching and found this cool video where several similar products are reviewed. ua-cam.com/video/XObmZIbHOzY/v-deo.htmlsi=m60Tsie9vUI6I0ht It seems that the quick-drying epoxy glues didn't stick well to the underlying steel very well. The Devcon and Original JB weld seemed to do the best.
Very interesting and pertinent to my situation. All those holes on the mill table - isn't it supposed to be hardened? I made a dent in my Bridgeport clone with a normal HSS drill. Surprised me how soft the table is. On the other hand the inside edges of the T slots are dead hard. (and rough). I couldn't true them up to take accurate locating pins.
Well, the table is made of cast iron, I believe. I suspect that it is case (surface) hardened somehow. And I think I may have gone down through that when trying to resurface it. But this table seems soft to me. Thanks for watching.
Is the bed cast Iron or steel? If steel I think welding would be a good option for some of the holes.
I'm pretty sure it is cast iron. I would have loved to use welding instead of epoxy. But I was afraid I would cause more harm than good with welding. :-(
Some creative problem solving.
Thanks
At this point you are supposed to have at least three apprentices .
Ha! I think you mean that I need to be the apprentice and have training from 3 experts! I seemed destined to learn things the hard way! Best wishes. 🙂
What about brazing ? Fireball tool fixed a completely broken vise with this method. You probably would need something strong to heat it.
Brazing would be the proper way to repair cast iron. But my understanding is that one needs to heat up all the surrounding metal evenly first. And that would take a considerable amount of heat given the sheer mass of the table. And I was ultimately concerned that all that heat would warp the table and leave me worse off than when I started. Having said that, if it was successful, it would have been a much nicer repair. Thanks for watching!
What is flaking? Never heard that before?
Scraping is where the surface of the metal is scraped off to achieve flatness. Flaking is the process of putting in very light scrapes such that oil is retained, making for better sliding between two pieces. Thanks for watching.
Looks like this machine came out of a highschool machine shop used and abused
Certainly abused! The company I bought it from had gone out of business. They were apparently making parts for subway cars that they didn't have a right to, i.e. patent conflict. And they reportedly got caught and that put an end to them. But who knows where the mill came from before that? Thanks for the feedback.
I remember when you brought the table by Knox Makers. Looks much better now. Butch
Hey Butch. Good to hear from you. Thanks for watching!
I suspect the low spot in the middle is wear on the bottom where the table spends most of its time.
Yeah. It's an old machine and lots of wear various places. No telling which one of the many wear areas is the culprit. Thanks for watching!
tram it in again and fly cut it. good as a surface grind. good enough doesn,t make it. the day will come when you say " i can,t make this, my mill won,t hold tolerance"
Serious question: How would I go about this? My table won't travel enough for a fly cutter to reach each end in one setup. I can loosen the turret and rotate the ram, but that becomes a different setup, and I am not sure that I won't end up with a several thousandth's step between fly cutting the different parts of the table. How would you go about this? Thanks for the feedback
Lot of work. Looks good.
Slowly but surely! Best wishes.
Don’t put your vise on the worn middle spot, put it to one side or the other, there should be less wear there.
That's a good idea. Except I don't really like the idea of having my table sticking way out on one side. I am considering trying to work more to get a flatter surface. Thanks for the feedback!
😊you have never worked in a trade shop where the boss is shouting at you pacy pacy inyour eyerhole who cares about his ****** bridgeport!!!!!! ttfn&ty
Ha! This explains a lot! Thanks for watching.
and yeah, buy some GOODstones and dress theways and the table top.
Good idea! Thanks!
It seems like you are romantically attached to that table. I think there is a point where you have to throw in the towel back up and search for a replacement table... the rest of the mill is a showpiece.... the table... will always be a disaster, covered up by blood sweat and tears.
Great work though.
I'll keep my eyes open for a replacement table. But I haven't seen any around lately. Thanks for watching.
Lost me at epoxy ... it should be welded :(
I thought about welding, and I looked into it. I even found a video of some guy in Korea plugging all the holes with a MIG welder. But everyone I personally asked about it looked at me in horror because cast iron doesn't well well. I think the area that gets heated pulls away from the part that is not heated. So then to avoid this, you have to preheat the entire table. And that then requires some sort of giant oven which I don't have. And if I did get it all that hot, I worried that the entire table might warp. So since it is all just cosmetic, I compromised with epoxy. I have done this on a prior Bridgeport clone, and much of it pops loose after about a year. But no harm done. Best wishes, Kevin
I applaud his enthusiasm and willingness to just dive in, but most of the cosmetic work he did only made the table worse. Willy-nilly adding flaking to the ways is just adding wear. You might feel better because it looks more like an unworn machine. Its also what unscrupulous sellers do to clapped out Bridgeports. Belt sanding the table top is an even worse idea.
@@vandalsgarage Sorry you didn't like my efforts. Thanks for the feedback.