Fun fact from a Game Dev Graduate: Crosshairs were originally implemented into games to help with motion sickness, rather than showing the player where to aim, and that still is the true purpose of them to this day. They just now also help with aim
I thought they were created thanks to goldeneye speedrunners using some tape on the middle of the screen to better help with their precision shots and the game industry caught onto that
Fun fact: if you claim something is a fact and claim it was said by someone with intellectual authority without even specifying who it was, some people may believe you.
Guess the crosshairs from DK64 were always meant to stop me from barfing because of the high tech motion blur implemented in the game. God dammit dude... I'm not mad at ya, I'm dissapointed.
The of the sombra-ball dynamic that is the most frustrating imo is that sombra is designed to kill supports with her huge burst damage, yet just hacking ball or doom off cool down gives more value and requires less skill
That and also supports feel ungodly hard to kill. Good luck killing the bap with 3 healthbars, or the kiri with 2 get out of jail free cards. It's so much easier to just sit there and hack tank
I`m a new Sombra player, (started this week), and I`m mostly just harassing the enemy snipers. Widowakers are an easy pick, with hack/virus/tp, with Hanzo and Ash proving slightly harder depending on whether Storm arrow or Coachgun is on cooldown.
@@SharkgobrrrrAs a random tip, when you go for Widow's as Sombra, you usually want to virus and gun them down. When you hack her first, it'll give the Widow time to react and possibly kill you
Doom doesn’t get countered as hard by sombra as before. It could be me playing him into her so much that I’m desensitized, but playing near your own backline or around a corner until you get hacked and just constantly chase the sombra works super well. If she hacks you than you wait for it to wear off than you punch as her. Once she tp’s away than you slam where she tp’d to get the aoe dmg and take her out of invis and finish the kill. Works incredibly well and forces them off sombra since you only go for them.
@@I.want.toji.in.me.oml.ughhhhh I mean you can always chase her on ball too but in my experience sobmras just stay in the backline and protect their supports from being dived so when you go for a piledrive you're just dead, at least dooms slam is really quick so you can cancel hack with it
One way I’ve always considered to prevent sombra countering wrecking ball is to just have his ball form be his natural form. That way when hacked his grapple is disabled, making it hard for him to escape but his momentum isn’t instantly cancelled and there’s still a chance for him to escape.
The problem with that though is the main reason Sombra counters ball is you can counter his Piledriver, his main instigator of damage. Unless they make PD instant, or at least faster, even with default ball form, Sombra would still roll him.
Yeah it would help but sombra doesn’t only kill ball, it also stops him from doing anything since his best way of dealing damage is his momentum and abilities.
@@10Neon It makes absolutely no sense that a hack would kill momentum, but this isn't the only stupid interaction ball has. Wrecking balls are typically designed to break walls correct? Well too bad, this wall is made out of ice so that clearly means that you cannot break it 😂
5:44 I’m so glad Flats commented on this absolute turd take. I commented on his hour long video about this where he played quickplay on a Smurf account to make a point how easy it is to capitalize on lack of awareness with Moira in low elo/qp. Like he quite literally disproved his own point. If it’s “easy” with a certain hero you most definitely are trying to be edgy when you say counterpicks don’t exist. They most definitely do, just because you can be good at a hero doesn’t mean counters don’t exist for them bc it’s talking about multiple facets of play not just mechanical skill required.
While I see where you come from, that guy is a coach and top 1 support His advice has made me climb and motivates me to keep on climbing while still keeping my ego in check. "You can't have ego if you're not number one at what you do"
@@charlieroebuck4240 the guy is clearly trying to be edgy. If you find motivation in that, so be it. But he is quite wrong to state “there is no such thing as a counter in overwatch” when the devs themselves have “balanced” around the idea of counterpicking since the game launched. Awkward just wants attention on his dying channel. But thank you for your input because it goes to show that there are different mindsets between different pro players and it is dialogue that needs to happen more often.
@@chrisperry4014 that last part in your comment I can agree fully. Thank you for still having an open conversation with me. English is not my first language and I can't type as fast since my phone broke so I hope you're okay if we leave this conversation here. Please have an awesome day 👍🏽
I do enjoy the center of the screen tip. This is actually something I was told back when I played Team Fortress 2 Competitively, now I do Overwatch. Such an amazing tip and its something that is like a transferrable skill almost right for video games specifically shooters. It was Game Changing.
@@thehmarplayer4676 Don't HYPERFOCUS on the crosshair, watch the rest of the screen and position the centre of your screen without overly focusing on the crosshair. When you are looking at the crosshair, you are looking at the crosshair, not the game. The more you practice this, the more it will make sense to you overtime.
I love all the shots the Mercy hit through that Hanzo ult and Ram ult to "carry". The enemy team got outplayed by the Mercy attaching her staff to the only person near her. If anything, the Ana carried by nading themselves to make the measly 55hps double, then nano-ing the Mercy to keep her alive. It's not like holding down the heal button harder makes it heal more.
@cagxplays9602 how tf is that broken? The rammatra litterally only hit 1 punch on ana the whole time. You want to call supports OP at least use an example where it's not just the enemy being a bot.
@@cagxplays9602 she barely got out of the dragons on 3hp, that was luck, but do you honestly think you shouldn't be able to outheal the suck from his ult?
@@JustKosmikyesterday i nanoed my Genji, he healed the enemy somehow bc his ult did nothing, 2 TIMES! After that, i nanoed my tank instead and welp, he popped off
0:40 there'd be less of that if supports didn't get flamed for not having the highest healing in a match. You can stand still hold down a button for heals, and get quintuple endorsed
For the awkward clip, I think his intentions are to discourage lower rank players from blaming counters for their own mistakes. He does a lot of coaching and vod reviews to try and help people rank up and i assume it gets tiring seeing people in gold/silver complain about counters as if they are the sole reason they lose when he also sees them making mistakes like incorrect positioning and target prioritization. Saying counterpicks dont exist is just hyperbole to get his point across.
Yes, this is the comment I was looking for that clip was a bad example because there was no context before that but I believe he was saying to chat about dont make counter pick the only reason why you are losing because if you are good enough you can play around the counter and counters gives you a edge in a fight but does not garantee a win.
He also makes remarks that counter play is a real thing for very skilled (high top 500) players. Players further below make mistakes more frequently which can be capitalised on. Also, especially for lower rated players, it is essential to learn how to play around your chars weaknesses. You dont improve on a char by switching when they pick a counter, you improve by adapting your playstyle and even further improving on your fundamental skills which are especially required when you are being counterpicked.
@cagxplays9602 You must know Quantum Physics and use your Supreme intelligence to become a millionaire. No? You waste your life playing Overwatch? Wow bro you're a genius.
If you make a comment about supports, and support players start saying “Skill issue” or whatever egotistical nonsense they throw at you, reply “🤓” to them because that’s EXACTLY what they look like telling you all this.
About that "support carried" thing. I feel like that can be accurate. I play mainly dps and a lot of the time when I do good it's because we have great supports that are keeping the team alive so I can make those good plays and get those kills. I feel like those are times that the supports are carrying even if you can't see it in the killfeed. But there's also times when I feel like a tank is carrying after I do a great play even if it doesn't show up in the killfeed. I've had many times where a zarya bubble has allowed me as a dps to wipe out the enemy team. A good Mei wall doesn't show up on the killfeed either even if that has been something that helped the team win.
I agree partly with your take, but a lot of those situations are moreso about enabling. Easiest example to explain is with support. I can have a game where I'm just keeping my team alive through all sorts of bullshit allowing them to pop off i.e enabling them. Another game I might not have DPS popping off but I hit the Kiri flanks or pound some critical elims/antinades/whatever and carry the game that way. My opinion, and I'm not saying this is fact or that anyone has to agree, is that in 95-98% of cases healing pop offs are moreso a matter of enabling than carrying and there's nothing wrong with that. Supports can carry for sure, but for me that happens when they're making aggresive plays, not just pounding heals.
A support keeping the team alive???? No way, we are doing the bare minimum of requirement for playing the role here. Carrying on support in my eyes is doing all of that, while still applying dps pressure to either their backline or frontline. Sure there are situations where a support just kept you alive through something you should have got punished for, so it isn't black and white obviously, and it's not always easily noticable. - Sincerely someone who flexed all roles to T500 in OW1 consistently.
i think people often confuse the word “carry” as we would use it in OW as “enabling”. I used to do the same thing even if I made big plays I’d say “oh support just carried” but, that’s not entirely true; they enabled me to make the plays. Doesn’t matter the role, the team enables the team to make plays.
Placing enemies in the center of the screen is a very good tip. I actually disabled my crosshair completely several years ago because it was distracting from the enemy movement
What Awkward was trying to say is that instead of blaming it on not countering you can just try to get better at the hero you want to play, its a mindset. You should try to improve given the chance, thats all
I think the "there's no such thing as counters" tiktok is very wrong, but there's a tiny bit of truth to it. Most people just completely ignore player skill when talking about counters. "Oh the enemy has hog, bro just go reaper" but what if i'm dog ass at reaper and will do more and get way more value on another character? Just because you CAN counterswap doesn't mean it's 100% of the time the right play. So I think he was almost making a point, just kinda went off the rails being mad at a twitch chatter
He is also mostly a support player, he doesn't really speak for the fact that it is significantly easier to counter swap a singular tank than 2 supports.
Facts. In my ranked game the other day I was getting flamed for not going zarya into orisa by my mercy on Rialto (I was playing dva to deal with the enemy hanzo). I told my mercy I suck at Zarya. Then they start actively refusing to heal me until I swift so I cave in. I switch to zarya and then we start making no progress. At the end of the game the mercy went off at me for sucking at zarya. Support players are something else.
The overall point too is that swapping heroes to “counter” just heavily impedes your ability to improve. This is why counter swapping and switching heroes is insanely popular below masters.
It's *harder* to counter someone that one tricks a character and thus know how to react to the situation and enemy team, but you can still certainly make their life a lot harder. In the end, that's what I think a counter is, something/someone that exists to make something/someone's job harder.
Tbh I more think he means "hard counters", does sombra counter ball? Sure, but ball also counters sombra because he is good at chasing her down and spy checking. He also kills her very quickly and she cannot hack you after she has already hacked you for a period of time, so you can bait hacks and then move around freely.
hog is best tank. i will enjoy while it lasts. balance and hero design team of this game is totally clueless lmao. they created such a mess. they ignored simple solutions and made things complicated even more.
@@bladeclanhalo3 it's stupid af that you basically have to counter a tank with a support character and that there is only kind of that one counter for it
surely being a rank one player and coach means you can't possibly have a bad take/say something demonstrably false right?? Yeah no that'd be crazy pfff stupid flats you're just a t500 average tank player
0:35 Im gold in tank and silver in the other roles and honestly it feels like, heal pumping is the only thing you can do. Support at lower ranks feels more like a baby sitter than anything else because other roles are still learning to sustain and look after themselves properly, ie: not going deep out of position or pushing an unwinnable situation. I myself admit that I struggle hard with this and is probably the biggest thing holding me back. This is likely also why Orisa is considered a top tier goddess of a tank at lower ranks, because from the mixture of mediocre to bad mechanical ability, horrible communication and other factors, lower ranks struggle to force her to waste her self sustain, which has pretty low cooldowns. Throw in the fact that she's a wall and lower ranks love to play her. She's one of the only tanks in low ranks with maybe the exception of sigma, where our supports can play their role instead of babysitting other players. This is just to say the struggle of supports in lower ranks is having teammates good enough to allow you to get better at your actual role and just FYI I'm also part of the problem, at the end of the day its a learning processes and getting over bad habits that you may have gotten away with before. For example what brought me from silver tank to gold was simply knowing when to relax and fall back. Too often did I push and push and push eventually just isolating myself, or over commiting a push in a teamfight trying to thirst an unlikely support kill, to cut off said babysitter. Now I believe what's mostly barring my ascent into plat is positioning, self sustain and paying attention to my backline more, especially when no one is in VC.
One point to make, try to recognize when your tank actually understands cover, healthpacks, and staying alive. If they do, they probably don’t want a healbot they want you to help do dmg/help the dps more.
Stop worrying as much about your team dying, they are bad, they will continue to be bad, dying will make them play behind cover more. Be the playmaker, be the carry, be the guy that gets all of the kills. When the dps and tank start getting embarrassed because you are killing more people than them, maybe they will step up their game too. Will you get blamed? Probably, but you'll also win more games. Remember, try to always be in a position to do damage, if the enemy moves towards you, you move back, if the enemy moves back, you move forward. This changes more on which character you play, zen should have a reasonable amount of space between you and the enemies, whereas moira can get up close and personal because she can fade to safety (always have an escape plan, if your position has no escape plan, you are in the wrong position).
problem is that I'm bad too, the rank system works in that regard. It's not really viable for me to "Just carry" I'm not hard stuck silver I'm appropriately placed. If I try to be the playmaker or the guy that gets all the kills its just not viable because at silver ranks your tank & babysitter are the linchpin in your team. under best case scenario where I pop off (by silver standards) a teamfight will end in a 1v1 between me and a tank which I will promptly get rolled. It's not all bad though. I started playing Lifeweaver which lets me ignore my teammates for a little while without condemning them to death since he has a get out of jail free card and can be played from range which I prefer, since then I have slowly climbed from silver 4 to 2. Also bonus, because you are saving your tank from near death over and over again you gain a toxicity bodyguard to defend you from the rest of your team roasting you for low heals compared to the other support. @cagxplays9602
@@HrBankNova Trust me, you are bad because you are not actively attempting to change the way you play. Will you suck for a bit and not actively do things correctly or forget to apply damage properly/position well? Sure, but overtime you will learn if you just keep trying. You just have to constantly remind yourself what to do. Should I be healbotting right now? The tank is full hp, the other support is pocketing her, okay, lets push up on this off angle with my genji. Damage, damage, damage. Oh the enemy is walking towards me now? Time to back off and keep applying damage as I walk backwards rather than turning my back to them. Do I have an escape ability? Yes? Okay, let's do a bit more damage. Ok is my tank about to die now? Yes? Okay good thing I already rotated back towards my team, distracted the enemies and potentially got a kill, now I can heal my tank and we can push forwards. Remember, because you were taking an off angle and the enemies looked at you, they were no longer looking at your team, therefore you don't have to heal them as much because they arent taking as much damage. When you are constantly sitting behind your team, expecting them to do something, it makes it easy to shoot at you AND your team, instead, make the enemy choose who they want to shoot at. Obviously theres a lot more to it, but I STRONGLY believe you will rank up once you stop making excuses, focus on your teammates being shit much less and instead focus on improving yourself.
I have been trying to improve my aim for a long time. There was a short time i felt good playing characters like widow and cassidy. But after i stopped playing for a week or two, my aim juat went bad again. I tried the tip here, and my aim over doubled in accuracy instantly. My immediate improvement is likely due to already having the practice, it was the tip of focusing on you enemy not your crosshair that managed to tie all my practice together. How have i not heard this advice before? It feels like one of the most important things to tell all new players yet i seem to have missed the memo. Idk if I'm just unlucky or if most people don't think about or something else. I am both very happy and excited and somewhat annoyed. More at myself then anything though.
5:50 awkard acknowledges the fact that counters exist when the skill gap is a lot slimmer which it is in high top 500, he is directing his message to low gm or even lower ranks because there is such a big skill gap. The clip isn’t helpful as it is taken out of the context I just provided.
@@MrBreakdownx Your brain doesn't exist either, have you tried using it? Put me in a bronze-gold lobby, have the entire enemy team run "counters" to ball and I will still dominate the entire game and I'm not even a rank #1 player.
@@MrBreakdownx Or maybe you just aren't capable of reading, this goes back to the point that you should try using your brain to think about things logically. I bet you play quickplay once a week and think your opinion matters.
@@cagxplays9602 dead wrong. Counter exists buddy no matter what you or anyone says. No matter what there will be counters. Also overwatch is my main shooter idk why we are bringing playtime into this and you started acting like an elitist. Lol Also if I was playing the game once a week why would be here in a comment section under and overwatch content creators video. Use your brain as you say.
The issue with hero countering is there is absolutely zero counter mitigation. There is nothing you can do as Ball to stop a Sombra from hacking you the whole game. There is nothing to mitigate the effects a counter has on you. In games like DOTA, LoL and even Paladins, you have options to mitigate your counter through itemization and character build. And remember, you can't just swap characters in all 3 of those games. Its why counter mitigation is required. Items and the ability to build a character adds so much depth to the game that Overwatch needs right now but can't do because of its character swap mechanic. Overwatch's mid match character swap mechanic is it's biggest issue and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
Here's my take on the topic of "Counters that are mechanically simple are bad/lazy design" premise: OW isn't a pure shooter, but a Hero Shooter, which is basically a shooter with MOBA elements. My personal favorite MOBA is Dota 2, which has ridiculously complex heroes like Invoker and Meepo - but it also has extremely simple ones. The hero Wraith King used to be a meme for having only 1 button and 3 passives for his abilities, for example. But WK is so mechanically easy, why should he be able to beat those harder heroes? Because if he is not viable in the overall balance there'd be no point in picking him; otherwise what's the point of having him in game? The trade-off is that low mechanical complexity is but one skill factor and the others, such as awareness, decision making, positioning, etc. are still in play. Back in OW, how would you intend to make a hero like Moira or Reaper more mechanically difficult than other characters? That's part of their core. If they weren't allowed to shine what would be the point of picking them?
11:00 Pretty sure they're saying they carried you through what was coming your way during that play. Keeping you up through all the bs flying in left, right, and center, landing CDs that could've been used for the tracer or genji sniffing their ass which forces them to play ring around the rosie while you pop off, and not dying long enough to let you have fun. That's what they're talking about. That said, the Ana actually carried that.
People think way to hard about counters If someone counters your character, it means your "window of opportunity" has gotten smaller At the start of the match The map decides how big that "window" is A team that compliments your character can make that "window" much wider That's basically it You can also think of as a door, or a room that expands and shrinks.
i think what they need is beginner, intermediate, and advanced 2-player set. theres no way to teach them everything they need to know with one deck and one set of instructions
2:55, Overwatch 2 symettra is by no means the one of the easiest DPS in the game. She actually requires aim and a massive amount of timing. She also has become one of the most dynamic characters in team play.
Sym is one of the most brain dead heroes in the game stop putting skill behind non skill based hero your kit is easier in every way your projectile does way too much damage and has such a big hit box compared to other projectiles. Your primary fire is famous for being brain dead just hold it wow skill tp take zero skill you just place it basically in the same spot for every map with a few tp out of ults. Turret booming is so easy or you can use turret for a venom mine/Sonic arrow that have. 3 use on a low cooldown your ult is a shield take zero skill you can counter almost any ult with it not to mention you get that stuff way too easily. You have a passive shield. You are basically the mercy of dps acting like your character isn't broken and brain dead.
I’d say the “support carried” comments is all part of what I’d like to consider the “Support Circle Jerk.” These supports tend to usually get called out for not doing enough when doing or even not doing their best, and are looking to point out ANYTHING that validates their efforts, even if it was simply doing the main thing supports are good at: Keeping people alive. Support Circle Jerkers are their own breed, because I know DPS and Tanks that have saved MY ass more times than I’ve saved THEIRS, AND they go on to just wipe and destroy since they helped me help them. Those guys carry and are the real MVPs. Some supports DO carry in ways, but it’s not as often or sometimes even as epic as SCJs would have you think.
ive mained ball for years now, and your "counterplay" to sombra is as follows, First walk into the spawn room, second hold h. third swap to anyone other then doomfist, and then kill their whole team
I feel like the take at 8:30 absolutely slaps but there's a problem. They CAN'T deliver on that goal because in doing that they'd need to nerf the easy heroes in ways that they don't hard shut down the hard heroes. That just neuters them entirely which ruins fun AND means that the Doom and Ball OTPs will just trounce everybody because if high skill characters get value proportional to skill, the game is over.
Just nerf easy hero to the ground don't need every hero to be viable in every rank sorry but 80% of the DPS are useless anyway because of those brwindead hero
aim tip is so true. i dont use crosshair on most heroes. it throws me off. but you gotta be in certain flow. like yanny/laurel phenomena. sometimes our brains just work different doesn't see the same way. ''no crosshair'' tip is best with heroes like s76 and mauga. for heroes like cassidy, hitting the first shot can be challenging but follow up shots easier without crosshair.
when my tank doesnt make space i flank with LW and pull the tank in. been doing that for 2 weeks now and its been 100% working so far and will keep this style until it fails
Something i never liked about the supports vs healers argument is that the same reasons for why they HAVE to be called supports can be applied to any type of healer focused character in any game, because i can't think of any that ONLY heal. In mmo's and rpg's for example, healers can have some of the strongest attacks because healing is tied to magic power, they have ''supportive'' spells that buff allies and debuff enemies that enable the rest of the team to do what they need to, but the classes are still called ''healers'' Im not sayin they have to be called one or the other, just that the reasonings people give don't make sense when applied to all of gaming and not just this specific one.
i dont get offended or correct somebody if they call supports healers because i know what they mean. but its just not a good term to use in this game because yes, while all supports can heal their teammates, that doesnt mean their only purpose, or even main purpose is to heal. for example with zen, yeah you might as well have your healing orb on someone at all times to build your ult faster, but thats like at most 20% of the value of the hero. in reality zen should be focusing much more on damage and kills and using his discord orb to secure more damage and kills for his team. same thing for lucio, if you call him a healer thats how you get the lucios who have 85% heal aura usage and wonder why they keep losing games. its just not a great term to use when theres already such a widespread mentality in the lower ranks that the only way you can do well as a support hero is by farming your heal stat.
Exactly, if they also do other things and support in ways that aren't healing, that's why they are called supports. We all know that support is the correct term because it actually defines the role properly, healing is just another form of support and it is not their only objective.
@@kingmoosh2004 So yea, everything you just said was true. But has nothing to do with anything i said. tldr, characters who are healing focused (like a whitemage for final fantasy fans) can also do and are expected to do damage and use supportive abilities as well. They dont just heal. So do we just drop the term ''healer'' for all videogames? was my point. Because the reason for calling them supports in overwatch can be applied to every game with a healing/supportive role
I thank my supports because I can't make aggressive plays without them as consistently, even if they are just doing damage and not healing me. If they have taken the space with me and are SUPPORTING me, they are doing their job well and I'm appreciative of it, as I've seen too many supports that just sit in the back line, heal the full health tank and do nothing else.
@@cagxplays9602 maybe instead you should appreciate your own skill since you actually had to aim or your dps who had to actually outplay someone, not vaugely point in the direction of the target they wanted to heal and leave the real work to someone else.
@@wish5615 I can't argue that as I believe support is the easiest role to output value with, but healbots and extremely passive supports are way too common and I'm so thankful when someone actually plays the role properly.
Awkward is just stupid. He expects people to be able to play like top 0.01%? I would also be uncounterable if I was a world cup level player... And he just insults his playerbase. What an educator!
Rolling with ball then they instantly just swap to sombra and my game is over. I can play around a sombra but I have to work SO hard, while they just follow me around and use a lock on ability to instakill me. Tank is boring when there’s more hard counters than there are heroes to choose from
nah a mercy can definitely carry with really good movement to stay alive the whole game or by pulling off a game changing rez, but holding left click on the closest target is definitely not carrying lol
@@kingmoosh2004i disagree mercy fundamentally can’t carry a game because she has no offensive capabilities to secure elims unless you’re a god with the glock
Also mercys never get credit for carrying lol I have no idea what flats is talking about. Sure I see ana's always steal credit for managing to land a single nade, but I have never had anyone say anything about me doing well on mercy, and god forbid on Moira.
@@SecureBirch410 I have for moira, but you pretty much have to kill the entire enemy team by yourself to get any recognition because everyone thinks moira lacks any skill at all, yet they are hardstuck gold themselves.
@@cagxplays9602 I used to get a lot of recognition in plat when people cared about healing, cos people would be like "wow a Moira that heals" Best I will get nowadays in masters is them "allowing" me to stay on Moira without complaint. I remember once I heard someone in vc complimenting everyone all the time like, "nice pick genji" "huge nade" then I get a 4k ON MY OWN to get them off point and it was just silence lol. With mercy people do compliment my resurrects sometimes, that's it. I get the most compliments on Kiri who is easily my worst of the 3, like people saying huge suzu or Kiri carried when I litterally just threw a massive aoe splash at a critical ally or sommat.
I think they more meant that mercy isnt consistently applying damage herself, she is usually damage boosting or healing, both of which are as boring as eachother since you just stand there and hold a button down.
I've lost count on the amount of times we've lost easy games on the final points all because the enemy team turn off their brains and counter our whole team. It's honestly just disappointing
Yeah I've started to notice I'm having more success with lower visibility crosshairs. I don't think I could go full hidden ever, but I might want to reset all of my crosshairs to the ones on the characters I'm most successful with and adjust from there.
The counter thing, just my take, if you don't know how to use the hero that can counter the enemies, example: Sombra to counter doom/ball, zarya to counter orisa, I would suggest try to use the hero you great at and communicate with the teammates if possible, Because even if you change to counter enemy but you don't know how to use the the hero properly, it still doesn't help the team and you just easily get stressed out Would suggest at least know basic of the hero if possible, can be much more good if you actually master the whole hero pool
11:00 As a Genji main, YES THAT'S SO RIGHT I GET A 5K WITH BLADE AND THEN MY SUPPORTS GO "Well we healed you so we carried." NO YOU DID NOT. I did the play, I killed them all, I did that with skill not getting healed. (Still thought thanks)
I do the first tiktok as kirko all the time and people think I do nothing despite having the same amount of kills as the dps with like 2 deaths because I'm like 2000k healing less then the other support.
Sombra isn't as oppressive against ball as she used to be. The reduction on the silence made her hack so much more reasonable. Yes, she's still a good pick against ball, but it's not like she shits him down completely like she used to.
Since blizzard is trying to get some changes in the game (quickerplay) let them try OW with hero changes only in between maps and a pick and ban phase.
Tbf flats as a support player ive seen dude claim my work as them carrying, like I dueled the flanking dps and killed them, slept that tank for you to hit the big ult and purpled the team ao you could finish the kill and dps and tanks think the feast they were served was somehow their work. Hell, half the time it's tanks that either want to wait behind a shield till thw heat death of fhe universe or they blow all their CDs and then push around a corner and I have to do God's work to keep them from committing suicide.
9:43 and they say they need to nerf the damage in this game, and let the supports alone, or even buff them. And you see plays like this. No other words can sum better all of this than: SupportWatch!
Tbh I feel like tracer and torb is A 50/50 because on one hand torb has turret but on the other hand tracer can hit torb real easy because of how circular he is.
10:30 This is so factual and it happens in game in the lower ranks too. I can be on Echo against double Hitscan while my supports are Lucio and Moira. I can farm that lobby and it’s obvious who was carrying but you see “Support diff” at the end. Like are you blind? I went 40-3 and it was a Support diff? Really?
I played Ball against a Sombra, i vowed to not switch, she was impossible to kill or avoid. End game result shes 10-10, im 21-8, i say that to confirm that even a horrible Sombra can and will hard counter ball.
Tanks get the most blame in this game hands down. Tanks easiest to blame when things go south. Tanks easiest to ignore when they’ve done more for the team🤷🏾♂️
the theres no counter tiktok makes no sense bc he is comparing some top 500 player who been playing for years vs some player in maybe diamond or masters 😭
"if you play ball and they play sombra, your ability to play is significantly hampered"
sir i believe you mean significantly hamstered
Sombra makes the game significantly unhamstered
•_•
@@10Neon a real, fuck you *unhamters your game* moment.
Fact check sir
It’s Hamter
It's Hamtaro Time!
Fun fact from a Game Dev Graduate: Crosshairs were originally implemented into games to help with motion sickness, rather than showing the player where to aim, and that still is the true purpose of them to this day.
They just now also help with aim
I thought they were created thanks to goldeneye speedrunners using some tape on the middle of the screen to better help with their precision shots and the game industry caught onto that
Fun fact: if you claim something is a fact and claim it was said by someone with intellectual authority without even specifying who it was, some people may believe you.
@@J.R.Swish1fun fact as a former ruler of the planet: you’re right
@@J.R.Swish1”a sandwich without meat, isnt” ~Sun Tzu, _Art of War_
Guess the crosshairs from DK64 were always meant to stop me from barfing because of the high tech motion blur implemented in the game.
God dammit dude... I'm not mad at ya, I'm dissapointed.
The of the sombra-ball dynamic that is the most frustrating imo is that sombra is designed to kill supports with her huge burst damage, yet just hacking ball or doom off cool down gives more value and requires less skill
That and also supports feel ungodly hard to kill. Good luck killing the bap with 3 healthbars, or the kiri with 2 get out of jail free cards. It's so much easier to just sit there and hack tank
I`m a new Sombra player, (started this week), and I`m mostly just harassing the enemy snipers. Widowakers are an easy pick, with hack/virus/tp, with Hanzo and Ash proving slightly harder depending on whether Storm arrow or Coachgun is on cooldown.
@@SharkgobrrrrAs a random tip, when you go for Widow's as Sombra, you usually want to virus and gun them down. When you hack her first, it'll give the Widow time to react and possibly kill you
Doom doesn’t get countered as hard by sombra as before. It could be me playing him into her so much that I’m desensitized, but playing near your own backline or around a corner until you get hacked and just constantly chase the sombra works super well.
If she hacks you than you wait for it to wear off than you punch as her. Once she tp’s away than you slam where she tp’d to get the aoe dmg and take her out of invis and finish the kill. Works incredibly well and forces them off sombra since you only go for them.
@@I.want.toji.in.me.oml.ughhhhh I mean you can always chase her on ball too but in my experience sobmras just stay in the backline and protect their supports from being dived so when you go for a piledrive you're just dead, at least dooms slam is really quick so you can cancel hack with it
I love that Flats reaction to seeing himself in a TikTok is just "Oh no, this isn't gonna be fun."
One way I’ve always considered to prevent sombra countering wrecking ball is to just have his ball form be his natural form. That way when hacked his grapple is disabled, making it hard for him to escape but his momentum isn’t instantly cancelled and there’s still a chance for him to escape.
The problem with that though is the main reason Sombra counters ball is you can counter his Piledriver, his main instigator of damage. Unless they make PD instant, or at least faster, even with default ball form, Sombra would still roll him.
I feel like piledriver should be immune to hack just so it stops hurting my head that she can hack something into not falling so fast
@@Sharkgobrrrr I'd say give Ball hacking immunity while his shields are active. That way you give Hammond some way to respond to the Sombra
Yeah it would help but sombra doesn’t only kill ball, it also stops him from doing anything since his best way of dealing damage is his momentum and abilities.
@@10Neon It makes absolutely no sense that a hack would kill momentum, but this isn't the only stupid interaction ball has. Wrecking balls are typically designed to break walls correct? Well too bad, this wall is made out of ice so that clearly means that you cannot break it 😂
5:44 I’m so glad Flats commented on this absolute turd take. I commented on his hour long video about this where he played quickplay on a Smurf account to make a point how easy it is to capitalize on lack of awareness with Moira in low elo/qp. Like he quite literally disproved his own point. If it’s “easy” with a certain hero you most definitely are trying to be edgy when you say counterpicks don’t exist. They most definitely do, just because you can be good at a hero doesn’t mean counters don’t exist for them bc it’s talking about multiple facets of play not just mechanical skill required.
While I see where you come from, that guy is a coach and top 1 support
His advice has made me climb and motivates me to keep on climbing while still keeping my ego in check. "You can't have ego if you're not number one at what you do"
@@charlieroebuck4240 the guy is clearly trying to be edgy. If you find motivation in that, so be it. But he is quite wrong to state “there is no such thing as a counter in overwatch” when the devs themselves have “balanced” around the idea of counterpicking since the game launched. Awkward just wants attention on his dying channel. But thank you for your input because it goes to show that there are different mindsets between different pro players and it is dialogue that needs to happen more often.
@@charlieroebuck4240 ok, good for you bro, but that doesn't mean he can't have bad takes...
@@chrisperry4014 that last part in your comment I can agree fully. Thank you for still having an open conversation with me. English is not my first language and I can't type as fast since my phone broke so I hope you're okay if we leave this conversation here. Please have an awesome day 👍🏽
@@RIADAPLE I agree with your comment too he can have bad takes yet I still see his point and work with it, have a great day 👍
I do enjoy the center of the screen tip. This is actually something I was told back when I played Team Fortress 2 Competitively, now I do Overwatch. Such an amazing tip and its something that is like a transferrable skill almost right for video games specifically shooters.
It was Game Changing.
Could you explain it? I didn't get it
@@thehmarplayer4676 Don't HYPERFOCUS on the crosshair, watch the rest of the screen and position the centre of your screen without overly focusing on the crosshair. When you are looking at the crosshair, you are looking at the crosshair, not the game. The more you practice this, the more it will make sense to you overtime.
@@cagxplays9602Thanks!
I love all the shots the Mercy hit through that Hanzo ult and Ram ult to "carry". The enemy team got outplayed by the Mercy attaching her staff to the only person near her. If anything, the Ana carried by nading themselves to make the measly 55hps double, then nano-ing the Mercy to keep her alive. It's not like holding down the heal button harder makes it heal more.
It was definitely the ana, but we all know how stupid broken ana is.
@cagxplays9602 how tf is that broken? The rammatra litterally only hit 1 punch on ana the whole time. You want to call supports OP at least use an example where it's not just the enemy being a bot.
@@lukasg4807 PUNCH? ANA WAS STANDING INSIDE HIS ULTIMATE, INSIDE ANOTHER ULTIMATE AND SHE SURVIVED.
@@cagxplays9602 she barely got out of the dragons on 3hp, that was luck, but do you honestly think you shouldn't be able to outheal the suck from his ult?
@@lukasg4807why are you just blatantly ignoring hanzo ult dmg? Do we just not see huge ass dragons now? Are we blind? What is happening?
"Tiktoks" being more than useless isn't possible... *cough* Genji ult *cough*
Cries in no nanos when solo q
*laughs in pool noodle*
@@JustKosmikyesterday i nanoed my Genji, he healed the enemy somehow bc his ult did nothing, 2 TIMES!
After that, i nanoed my tank instead and welp, he popped off
@@Sac-chan thats nit every genji (that is)
Winston ult cough cough Winston ult cough cough.
I can't wait for "Overwatch 2 Tiktoks That Counterpick You On Spawn"
0:40 there'd be less of that if supports didn't get flamed for not having the highest healing in a match.
You can stand still hold down a button for heals, and get quintuple endorsed
For the awkward clip, I think his intentions are to discourage lower rank players from blaming counters for their own mistakes. He does a lot of coaching and vod reviews to try and help people rank up and i assume it gets tiring seeing people in gold/silver complain about counters as if they are the sole reason they lose when he also sees them making mistakes like incorrect positioning and target prioritization. Saying counterpicks dont exist is just hyperbole to get his point across.
Yes, this is the comment I was looking for that clip was a bad example because there was no context before that but I believe he was saying to chat about dont make counter pick the only reason why you are losing because if you are good enough you can play around the counter and counters gives you a edge in a fight but does not garantee a win.
Finally someone with brain cells, it's nice to see.
He also makes remarks that counter play is a real thing for very skilled (high top 500) players.
Players further below make mistakes more frequently which can be capitalised on. Also, especially for lower rated players, it is essential to learn how to play around your chars weaknesses. You dont improve on a char by switching when they pick a counter, you improve by adapting your playstyle and even further improving on your fundamental skills which are especially required when you are being counterpicked.
@cagxplays9602 You must know Quantum Physics and use your Supreme intelligence to become a millionaire. No? You waste your life playing Overwatch? Wow bro you're a genius.
@@real1mem3s Bro's on an overwatch video talking shit about overwatch...
If you make a comment about supports, and support players start saying “Skill issue” or whatever egotistical nonsense they throw at you, reply “🤓” to them because that’s EXACTLY what they look like telling you all this.
About that "support carried" thing. I feel like that can be accurate. I play mainly dps and a lot of the time when I do good it's because we have great supports that are keeping the team alive so I can make those good plays and get those kills. I feel like those are times that the supports are carrying even if you can't see it in the killfeed. But there's also times when I feel like a tank is carrying after I do a great play even if it doesn't show up in the killfeed. I've had many times where a zarya bubble has allowed me as a dps to wipe out the enemy team. A good Mei wall doesn't show up on the killfeed either even if that has been something that helped the team win.
I agree partly with your take, but a lot of those situations are moreso about enabling.
Easiest example to explain is with support. I can have a game where I'm just keeping my team alive through all sorts of bullshit allowing them to pop off i.e enabling them. Another game I might not have DPS popping off but I hit the Kiri flanks or pound some critical elims/antinades/whatever and carry the game that way.
My opinion, and I'm not saying this is fact or that anyone has to agree, is that in 95-98% of cases healing pop offs are moreso a matter of enabling than carrying and there's nothing wrong with that. Supports can carry for sure, but for me that happens when they're making aggresive plays, not just pounding heals.
A support keeping the team alive???? No way, we are doing the bare minimum of requirement for playing the role here. Carrying on support in my eyes is doing all of that, while still applying dps pressure to either their backline or frontline. Sure there are situations where a support just kept you alive through something you should have got punished for, so it isn't black and white obviously, and it's not always easily noticable. - Sincerely someone who flexed all roles to T500 in OW1 consistently.
Flats ain’t never beating the same shirt allegations 💀
i think people often confuse the word “carry” as we would use it in OW as “enabling”. I used to do the same thing even if I made big plays I’d say “oh support just carried” but, that’s not entirely true; they enabled me to make the plays. Doesn’t matter the role, the team enables the team to make plays.
Placing enemies in the center of the screen is a very good tip. I actually disabled my crosshair completely several years ago because it was distracting from the enemy movement
What Awkward was trying to say is that instead of blaming it on not countering you can just try to get better at the hero you want to play, its a mindset. You should try to improve given the chance, thats all
10:00
"Oh, we're alive"
yeah you're on support
I think the "there's no such thing as counters" tiktok is very wrong, but there's a tiny bit of truth to it. Most people just completely ignore player skill when talking about counters. "Oh the enemy has hog, bro just go reaper" but what if i'm dog ass at reaper and will do more and get way more value on another character? Just because you CAN counterswap doesn't mean it's 100% of the time the right play. So I think he was almost making a point, just kinda went off the rails being mad at a twitch chatter
He is also mostly a support player, he doesn't really speak for the fact that it is significantly easier to counter swap a singular tank than 2 supports.
Facts. In my ranked game the other day I was getting flamed for not going zarya into orisa by my mercy on Rialto (I was playing dva to deal with the enemy hanzo). I told my mercy I suck at Zarya. Then they start actively refusing to heal me until I swift so I cave in. I switch to zarya and then we start making no progress. At the end of the game the mercy went off at me for sucking at zarya. Support players are something else.
@@andersondavis1228 And i bet the mercy thought she was carrying because she was holding her button down really really hard 😂
@@cagxplays9602he is a supp main but hes t500 in all roles i believe
The overall point too is that swapping heroes to “counter” just heavily impedes your ability to improve.
This is why counter swapping and switching heroes is insanely popular below masters.
BUT AIN'T NO WAY THE ANA LIVED THAT 😂😂..
Ram litterally only hit 1 punch on ana the entire ult.
It's *harder* to counter someone that one tricks a character and thus know how to react to the situation and enemy team, but you can still certainly make their life a lot harder. In the end, that's what I think a counter is, something/someone that exists to make something/someone's job harder.
Tbh I more think he means "hard counters", does sombra counter ball? Sure, but ball also counters sombra because he is good at chasing her down and spy checking. He also kills her very quickly and she cannot hack you after she has already hacked you for a period of time, so you can bait hacks and then move around freely.
“AIM by moving people to the center of your screen.”
Me who shoves my face through character models. 😃
And i thought mercy outhealing the tickle cannon was outrageous
People keep saying that Hog isn't too strong, Cyx just silently keeps on going
hog is best tank. i will enjoy while it lasts. balance and hero design team of this game is totally clueless lmao. they created such a mess. they ignored simple solutions and made things complicated even more.
he has to swap off hog as soon as ana zen gets picked. but people barely do so he can do what he wants
@@bladeclanhalo3 it's stupid af that you basically have to counter a tank with a support character and that there is only kind of that one counter for it
@@1andonlyMiro not really. anti and discord do literally nothing if their team doesnt act on it
nade and discord doesn't really counter him as much anymore.@@bladeclanhalo3
It's funny watching flats trying to argue with Awkward when he's a repeat rank one player and coach.
surely being a rank one player and coach means you can't possibly have a bad take/say something demonstrably false right?? Yeah no that'd be crazy pfff stupid flats you're just a t500 average tank player
Wow he plays brig so skill base
@@maximedemersboucher9060 he’s actually reached gm one tricking a large portion of the OW roster, solo queue only too.
The only thing I dislike about these tiktok videos is how short they are, I could happily watch flats watch tiktoks for an hour+.
10:08 GO GET THEM
"gives nano to mercy"
The mercy: "HERE COMES THE HURRACANE!"
"counters dont exist in this game" my teammate who is causing us to lose
Good to know I kinda cooked! Always fun to have Flats react to my vids! (Also, I’m missing from the credit in the description) 7:15
0:35 Im gold in tank and silver in the other roles and honestly it feels like, heal pumping is the only thing you can do. Support at lower ranks feels more like a baby sitter than anything else because other roles are still learning to sustain and look after themselves properly, ie: not going deep out of position or pushing an unwinnable situation. I myself admit that I struggle hard with this and is probably the biggest thing holding me back.
This is likely also why Orisa is considered a top tier goddess of a tank at lower ranks, because from the mixture of mediocre to bad mechanical ability, horrible communication and other factors, lower ranks struggle to force her to waste her self sustain, which has pretty low cooldowns. Throw in the fact that she's a wall and lower ranks love to play her.
She's one of the only tanks in low ranks with maybe the exception of sigma, where our supports can play their role instead of babysitting other players.
This is just to say the struggle of supports in lower ranks is having teammates good enough to allow you to get better at your actual role
and just FYI I'm also part of the problem, at the end of the day its a learning processes and getting over bad habits that you may have gotten away with before.
For example what brought me from silver tank to gold was simply knowing when to relax and fall back. Too often did I push and push and push eventually just isolating myself, or over commiting a push in a teamfight trying to thirst an unlikely support kill, to cut off said babysitter. Now I believe what's mostly barring my ascent into plat is positioning, self sustain and paying attention to my backline more, especially when no one is in VC.
One point to make, try to recognize when your tank actually understands cover, healthpacks, and staying alive. If they do, they probably don’t want a healbot they want you to help do dmg/help the dps more.
Stop worrying as much about your team dying, they are bad, they will continue to be bad, dying will make them play behind cover more. Be the playmaker, be the carry, be the guy that gets all of the kills. When the dps and tank start getting embarrassed because you are killing more people than them, maybe they will step up their game too. Will you get blamed? Probably, but you'll also win more games. Remember, try to always be in a position to do damage, if the enemy moves towards you, you move back, if the enemy moves back, you move forward. This changes more on which character you play, zen should have a reasonable amount of space between you and the enemies, whereas moira can get up close and personal because she can fade to safety (always have an escape plan, if your position has no escape plan, you are in the wrong position).
problem is that I'm bad too, the rank system works in that regard. It's not really viable for me to "Just carry" I'm not hard stuck silver I'm appropriately placed. If I try to be the playmaker or the guy that gets all the kills its just not viable because at silver ranks your tank & babysitter are the linchpin in your team. under best case scenario where I pop off (by silver standards) a teamfight will end in a 1v1 between me and a tank which I will promptly get rolled.
It's not all bad though. I started playing Lifeweaver which lets me ignore my teammates for a little while without condemning them to death since he has a get out of jail free card and can be played from range which I prefer, since then I have slowly climbed from silver 4 to 2.
Also bonus, because you are saving your tank from near death over and over again you gain a toxicity bodyguard to defend you from the rest of your team roasting you for low heals compared to the other support.
@cagxplays9602
Yeah I know it's just at low ranks matches like that are few and far between.
@@silentdc404
@@HrBankNova Trust me, you are bad because you are not actively attempting to change the way you play. Will you suck for a bit and not actively do things correctly or forget to apply damage properly/position well? Sure, but overtime you will learn if you just keep trying. You just have to constantly remind yourself what to do. Should I be healbotting right now? The tank is full hp, the other support is pocketing her, okay, lets push up on this off angle with my genji. Damage, damage, damage. Oh the enemy is walking towards me now? Time to back off and keep applying damage as I walk backwards rather than turning my back to them. Do I have an escape ability? Yes? Okay, let's do a bit more damage. Ok is my tank about to die now? Yes? Okay good thing I already rotated back towards my team, distracted the enemies and potentially got a kill, now I can heal my tank and we can push forwards. Remember, because you were taking an off angle and the enemies looked at you, they were no longer looking at your team, therefore you don't have to heal them as much because they arent taking as much damage. When you are constantly sitting behind your team, expecting them to do something, it makes it easy to shoot at you AND your team, instead, make the enemy choose who they want to shoot at.
Obviously theres a lot more to it, but I STRONGLY believe you will rank up once you stop making excuses, focus on your teammates being shit much less and instead focus on improving yourself.
I have been trying to improve my aim for a long time. There was a short time i felt good playing characters like widow and cassidy. But after i stopped playing for a week or two, my aim juat went bad again. I tried the tip here, and my aim over doubled in accuracy instantly. My immediate improvement is likely due to already having the practice, it was the tip of focusing on you enemy not your crosshair that managed to tie all my practice together. How have i not heard this advice before? It feels like one of the most important things to tell all new players yet i seem to have missed the memo. Idk if I'm just unlucky or if most people don't think about or something else. I am both very happy and excited and somewhat annoyed. More at myself then anything though.
5:50 awkard acknowledges the fact that counters exist when the skill gap is a lot slimmer which it is in high top 500, he is directing his message to low gm or even lower ranks because there is such a big skill gap. The clip isn’t helpful as it is taken out of the context I just provided.
He has said this multiple times. And its just not true. Counters exist and to say they don't is insane.
@@MrBreakdownx Your brain doesn't exist either, have you tried using it? Put me in a bronze-gold lobby, have the entire enemy team run "counters" to ball and I will still dominate the entire game and I'm not even a rank #1 player.
@@cagxplays9602 You said a whole lot of of words without proving a point.
@@MrBreakdownx Or maybe you just aren't capable of reading, this goes back to the point that you should try using your brain to think about things logically. I bet you play quickplay once a week and think your opinion matters.
@@cagxplays9602 dead wrong. Counter exists buddy no matter what you or anyone says. No matter what there will be counters. Also overwatch is my main shooter idk why we are bringing playtime into this and you started acting like an elitist. Lol
Also if I was playing the game once a week why would be here in a comment section under and overwatch content creators video. Use your brain as you say.
Man was preaching on the first one
10:03 another golden example of "support btw"
His facial reaction to Awkward's clip says it all
The issue with hero countering is there is absolutely zero counter mitigation. There is nothing you can do as Ball to stop a Sombra from hacking you the whole game. There is nothing to mitigate the effects a counter has on you. In games like DOTA, LoL and even Paladins, you have options to mitigate your counter through itemization and character build. And remember, you can't just swap characters in all 3 of those games. Its why counter mitigation is required. Items and the ability to build a character adds so much depth to the game that Overwatch needs right now but can't do because of its character swap mechanic. Overwatch's mid match character swap mechanic is it's biggest issue and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
Here's my take on the topic of "Counters that are mechanically simple are bad/lazy design" premise:
OW isn't a pure shooter, but a Hero Shooter, which is basically a shooter with MOBA elements. My personal favorite MOBA is Dota 2, which has ridiculously complex heroes like Invoker and Meepo - but it also has extremely simple ones. The hero Wraith King used to be a meme for having only 1 button and 3 passives for his abilities, for example. But WK is so mechanically easy, why should he be able to beat those harder heroes? Because if he is not viable in the overall balance there'd be no point in picking him; otherwise what's the point of having him in game? The trade-off is that low mechanical complexity is but one skill factor and the others, such as awareness, decision making, positioning, etc. are still in play.
Back in OW, how would you intend to make a hero like Moira or Reaper more mechanically difficult than other characters? That's part of their core. If they weren't allowed to shine what would be the point of picking them?
11:00
Pretty sure they're saying they carried you through what was coming your way during that play. Keeping you up through all the bs flying in left, right, and center, landing CDs that could've been used for the tracer or genji sniffing their ass which forces them to play ring around the rosie while you pop off, and not dying long enough to let you have fun. That's what they're talking about.
That said, the Ana actually carried that.
People think way to hard about counters
If someone counters your character, it means your "window of opportunity" has gotten smaller
At the start of the match The map decides how big that "window" is
A team that compliments your character can make that "window" much wider
That's basically it
You can also think of as a door, or a room that expands and shrinks.
I like playing tanks that force my team to consider not standing at ground level right behind me. Makes them less likely to be wiped by one ultimate
i think what they need is beginner, intermediate, and advanced 2-player set. theres no way to teach them everything they need to know with one deck and one set of instructions
2:55,
Overwatch 2 symettra is by no means the one of the easiest DPS in the game. She actually requires aim and a massive amount of timing. She also has become one of the most dynamic characters in team play.
Sym is one of the most brain dead heroes in the game stop putting skill behind non skill based hero your kit is easier in every way your projectile does way too much damage and has such a big hit box compared to other projectiles. Your primary fire is famous for being brain dead just hold it wow skill tp take zero skill you just place it basically in the same spot for every map with a few tp out of ults. Turret booming is so easy or you can use turret for a venom mine/Sonic arrow that have. 3 use on a low cooldown your ult is a shield take zero skill you can counter almost any ult with it not to mention you get that stuff way too easily. You have a passive shield. You are basically the mercy of dps acting like your character isn't broken and brain dead.
I’d say the “support carried” comments is all part of what I’d like to consider the “Support Circle Jerk.” These supports tend to usually get called out for not doing enough when doing or even not doing their best, and are looking to point out ANYTHING that validates their efforts, even if it was simply doing the main thing supports are good at: Keeping people alive.
Support Circle Jerkers are their own breed, because I know DPS and Tanks that have saved MY ass more times than I’ve saved THEIRS, AND they go on to just wipe and destroy since they helped me help them. Those guys carry and are the real MVPs. Some supports DO carry in ways, but it’s not as often or sometimes even as epic as SCJs would have you think.
11:27 It's the support Mafia
mercy in the last tiktok; i do not think i carried. literally almost shit myself
ive mained ball for years now, and your "counterplay" to sombra is as follows,
First walk into the spawn room, second hold h. third swap to anyone other then doomfist, and then kill their whole team
I feel like the take at 8:30 absolutely slaps but there's a problem. They CAN'T deliver on that goal because in doing that they'd need to nerf the easy heroes in ways that they don't hard shut down the hard heroes. That just neuters them entirely which ruins fun AND means that the Doom and Ball OTPs will just trounce everybody because if high skill characters get value proportional to skill, the game is over.
Just nerf easy hero to the ground don't need every hero to be viable in every rank sorry but 80% of the DPS are useless anyway because of those brwindead hero
11:15 this is why i stay as far away from my team as possible in the enemy spawn and primal for heals
getting rid of my cross hare on hampter doesnt feel right but i guess i can try it
aim tip is so true. i dont use crosshair on most heroes. it throws me off. but you gotta be in certain flow. like yanny/laurel phenomena. sometimes our brains just work different doesn't see the same way.
''no crosshair'' tip is best with heroes like s76 and mauga. for heroes like cassidy, hitting the first shot can be challenging but follow up shots easier without crosshair.
when my tank doesnt make space i flank with LW and pull the tank in. been doing that for 2 weeks now and its been 100% working so far and will keep this style until it fails
Something i never liked about the supports vs healers argument is that the same reasons for why they HAVE to be called supports can be applied to any type of healer focused character in any game, because i can't think of any that ONLY heal. In mmo's and rpg's for example, healers can have some of the strongest attacks because healing is tied to magic power, they have ''supportive'' spells that buff allies and debuff enemies that enable the rest of the team to do what they need to, but the classes are still called ''healers'' Im not sayin they have to be called one or the other, just that the reasonings people give don't make sense when applied to all of gaming and not just this specific one.
i dont get offended or correct somebody if they call supports healers because i know what they mean. but its just not a good term to use in this game because yes, while all supports can heal their teammates, that doesnt mean their only purpose, or even main purpose is to heal. for example with zen, yeah you might as well have your healing orb on someone at all times to build your ult faster, but thats like at most 20% of the value of the hero. in reality zen should be focusing much more on damage and kills and using his discord orb to secure more damage and kills for his team. same thing for lucio, if you call him a healer thats how you get the lucios who have 85% heal aura usage and wonder why they keep losing games. its just not a great term to use when theres already such a widespread mentality in the lower ranks that the only way you can do well as a support hero is by farming your heal stat.
Exactly, if they also do other things and support in ways that aren't healing, that's why they are called supports. We all know that support is the correct term because it actually defines the role properly, healing is just another form of support and it is not their only objective.
@@kingmoosh2004 So yea, everything you just said was true. But has nothing to do with anything i said. tldr, characters who are healing focused (like a whitemage for final fantasy fans) can also do and are expected to do damage and use supportive abilities as well. They dont just heal. So do we just drop the term ''healer'' for all videogames? was my point. Because the reason for calling them supports in overwatch can be applied to every game with a healing/supportive role
Drives me crazy cause I’ll do a crazy play and get like 3 or 4 picks and I’ll see “Ty supports” like bro kiri vaguely looked at you and pressed heal
I thank my supports because I can't make aggressive plays without them as consistently, even if they are just doing damage and not healing me. If they have taken the space with me and are SUPPORTING me, they are doing their job well and I'm appreciative of it, as I've seen too many supports that just sit in the back line, heal the full health tank and do nothing else.
@@cagxplays9602 maybe instead you should appreciate your own skill since you actually had to aim or your dps who had to actually outplay someone, not vaugely point in the direction of the target they wanted to heal and leave the real work to someone else.
Like oh the support did their easy to accomplish job? How great. The dps and tanks had to do their jobs except it’s harder.
@@wish5615 I can't argue that as I believe support is the easiest role to output value with, but healbots and extremely passive supports are way too common and I'm so thankful when someone actually plays the role properly.
Awkward is just stupid. He expects people to be able to play like top 0.01%? I would also be uncounterable if I was a world cup level player... And he just insults his playerbase. What an educator!
Imagine the whole comment and twitch chat being bots awkward is literally a owl player skill issues too real
At 9:46 he most literally went down to one hp, and his ana nade saved him
"Without counters being too easy and effective"
*removes junkrats combo and reworks pharah to be way faster and virtually unkillable by junk*
5:48 more like significantly hampster'd
the Mercy mafia sees it all, they're in every video, every tik tok, every post
Rolling with ball then they instantly just swap to sombra and my game is over. I can play around a sombra but I have to work SO hard, while they just follow me around and use a lock on ability to instakill me.
Tank is boring when there’s more hard counters than there are heroes to choose from
A pocketed soldier is my 😂worst nightmare ( sombra symmetra and echo main here ) flying has never been worst😂
as a former mercy main (now brig and ana), i can say that mercy will never carry. they either do or don’t their jobs and that’s it lmao 😂
nah a mercy can definitely carry with really good movement to stay alive the whole game or by pulling off a game changing rez, but holding left click on the closest target is definitely not carrying lol
@@kingmoosh2004i disagree mercy fundamentally can’t carry a game because she has no offensive capabilities to secure elims unless you’re a god with the glock
Also mercys never get credit for carrying lol I have no idea what flats is talking about. Sure I see ana's always steal credit for managing to land a single nade, but I have never had anyone say anything about me doing well on mercy, and god forbid on Moira.
@@SecureBirch410 I have for moira, but you pretty much have to kill the entire enemy team by yourself to get any recognition because everyone thinks moira lacks any skill at all, yet they are hardstuck gold themselves.
@@cagxplays9602 I used to get a lot of recognition in plat when people cared about healing, cos people would be like "wow a Moira that heals" Best I will get nowadays in masters is them "allowing" me to stay on Moira without complaint. I remember once I heard someone in vc complimenting everyone all the time like, "nice pick genji" "huge nade" then I get a 4k ON MY OWN to get them off point and it was just silence lol. With mercy people do compliment my resurrects sometimes, that's it.
I get the most compliments on Kiri who is easily my worst of the 3, like people saying huge suzu or Kiri carried when I litterally just threw a massive aoe splash at a critical ally or sommat.
where did this "healbot mercys" thing even come from? the only mercys who healbot are in bronze.
I think they more meant that mercy isnt consistently applying damage herself, she is usually damage boosting or healing, both of which are as boring as eachother since you just stand there and hold a button down.
@@cagxplays9602 i don't find it boring because mercys kit is about her movement, not how she heals.
at 3:16 you can see their shift ability swap between controller settings and keyboard settings, does that mean they are ximming?
I've lost count on the amount of times we've lost easy games on the final points all because the enemy team turn off their brains and counter our whole team. It's honestly just disappointing
I feel you then all they say is ez and skill issue yeah skill issue on their side for being so bad they rage switch to ez hero
Yeah I've started to notice I'm having more success with lower visibility crosshairs. I don't think I could go full hidden ever, but I might want to reset all of my crosshairs to the ones on the characters I'm most successful with and adjust from there.
The counter thing, just my take, if you don't know how to use the hero that can counter the enemies, example: Sombra to counter doom/ball, zarya to counter orisa, I would suggest try to use the hero you great at and communicate with the teammates if possible,
Because even if you change to counter enemy but you don't know how to use the the hero properly, it still doesn't help the team and you just easily get stressed out
Would suggest at least know basic of the hero if possible, can be much more good if you actually master the whole hero pool
11:00 As a Genji main, YES THAT'S SO RIGHT I GET A 5K WITH BLADE AND THEN MY SUPPORTS GO "Well we healed you so we carried." NO YOU DID NOT. I did the play, I killed them all, I did that with skill not getting healed. (Still thought thanks)
If they nano agreed but as a lucio player that speed boost genji blade and beat if their are low I won't say I carried I just did what a good lucio do
Ain’t no way that Ana lived
I do the first tiktok as kirko all the time and people think I do nothing despite having the same amount of kills as the dps with like 2 deaths because I'm like 2000k healing less then the other support.
Sombra isn't as oppressive against ball as she used to be. The reduction on the silence made her hack so much more reasonable. Yes, she's still a good pick against ball, but it's not like she shits him down completely like she used to.
But isn’t the crosshair there to show where the center of the screen is?
Since blizzard is trying to get some changes in the game (quickerplay) let them try OW with hero changes only in between maps and a pick and ban phase.
Tbf flats as a support player ive seen dude claim my work as them carrying, like I dueled the flanking dps and killed them, slept that tank for you to hit the big ult and purpled the team ao you could finish the kill and dps and tanks think the feast they were served was somehow their work. Hell, half the time it's tanks that either want to wait behind a shield till thw heat death of fhe universe or they blow all their CDs and then push around a corner and I have to do God's work to keep them from committing suicide.
9:43 and they say they need to nerf the damage in this game, and let the supports alone, or even buff them.
And you see plays like this.
No other words can sum better all of this than: SupportWatch!
she was in the ult for less than 1 second and ram missed all his punches
@@bladeclanhalo3 cope harder
Support is quite simple. Play zen for a season and you will learn the role of a support quite fast.
People that say zbra is rank 1 ignore the fact that he plays primarily in a region where people hard ignore meta and only play what they like
i played against zbra last season. he was at masters 2 at the time and honestly didnt do much on doom
what was the first tiktok ? as a mercy main I wanna comment something
I wish these videos were longer :(
let's go another flats video
Let's be honest. A really good junkrat is the best pharah counter.
wait, you can meat tank rammatras ult?
Tbh I feel like tracer and torb is A 50/50 because on one hand torb has turret but on the other hand tracer can hit torb real easy because of how circular he is.
10:30
This is so factual and it happens in game in the lower ranks too. I can be on Echo against double Hitscan while my supports are Lucio and Moira. I can farm that lobby and it’s obvious who was carrying but you see “Support diff” at the end. Like are you blind? I went 40-3 and it was a Support diff? Really?
Supports clearly carried throughout the entire video
winton
Ok if we have supports tanking full on ults i think the healing in the game should be toned down a bit
Mercy literally cannot carry lol she’s completely reliant on teammates. No point damage boosting if people aren’t hitting shots lol
awkwardOW lived up to his name with the tiktok.....awkward lmao
OH HELL NAH!!! You drink Dasani water how dare you lol
You don't pick sym in to genji unless the genji is gold or lower
That pharah mainin question being exposed for boosting and win-trading bs really doesn't help that dude's point about counters
metro rank 12 LOL
I played Ball against a Sombra, i vowed to not switch, she was impossible to kill or avoid. End game result shes 10-10, im 21-8, i say that to confirm that even a horrible Sombra can and will hard counter ball.
Tanks get the most blame in this game hands down. Tanks easiest to blame when things go south. Tanks easiest to ignore when they’ve done more for the team🤷🏾♂️
Supports really carried this video.
yo flats, your editors carried fr
the theres no counter tiktok makes no sense bc he is comparing some top 500 player who been playing for years vs some player in maybe diamond or masters 😭
Audio?