How Packaging Could Be Intel's Secret Sauce
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Adam talked with Wendell from @Level1Techs at Intel Innovation 2023 about how packaging could be the companies secret to success and how it's going to play a big part in the future.
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00:00 - Innovation For Developers
01:02 - Packaging Technologies
03:10 - All In On Packaging
06:35 - Packaging Cost
07:13 - Pushing Compute
08:07 - Downsides Of This Strategy
09:02 - Open Questions
10:07 - CXL 3.0 - Наука та технологія
Adam has started to get really good at interviewing people. Like looking at this interview versus some of his earlier interviews. This is really great!
He has been slowly eating Gordon...
@@ZenStrive52 Next thing you know he's gonna start saying "all that goodness" and talking about how SFF PCs suck
Packaging is the future of CPUs and GPUs. There is only so much you can do with node shrinks and how fast you can transition to compelling nodes. Look at how TSMC has now stumbled with 3nm, it was delayed and now we see the A17 pro with it, and its a disappointing node. Packaging doesnt solve node issues, but it allows far more flexibility, cost savings, specialization, etc. Intel has done a great job in positioning themself for the future.
The biggest challenge now is the energy invested for cross-chiplet/tile communication. This is make or break. Real innovation happening behind closed doors, here's hoping that Intel can still innovate.
How do you know the A17 pro sucks because of the node and not because of chip design exactly ?
@@nekogami87it does in part suck because of the node, but the node Apple is using isn't "real" TSMC N3. it's best thought of as an N3 beta. Apple pays ludicrous amounts of money to get the best node before anyone else, and usually it's not as good as the standard node that other companies get access to
@@zuckdaddy1596 yeah but that's business as usual, we know that apple basically paid for the previous 3 nodes or so what they had might not be the best N3 but if they consider the perfs of A17 as bad, it's more because of the design choice rather than the node imo ?
@@nekogami87 N3 in particular had some issues, that’s why the standard N3 node was delayed. Apple’s secret sauce node is just a little subpar relative to what they usually get. it may well also be a design issue in part. their new mac SOC doesn’t seem that much more performant either. but personally I’d place my bets at least for the mobile silicon on funky N3 not panning out too well
I wish I could feel excited about anything as much as Wendell is about new tech :')
I'm not an analyst but merely a consumer and I think it's a good step forward. At this point everyone's gotta be excited that they're able to do that since Intel's recent history concerning their ability to innovate is kinda...I don't wanna say disappointing but in the end I guess that's what it has been recently...
A market leader of the past, just gotta hope they can be again in the future. Until then, prepare for cheaper CPUs for us consumers - which is exciting :) Always cheer for the Underdog for the sake of healthy competition!
Our receptors are fried with so much dopamine spikes throughout the day. The best way to ge tthose sensations back is by letting go for a while. @@costafilh0
Wendell is like a kid on Christmas morning! I love it! I have no idea what he is talking about but damn it sounds cool!
Wendell!
Wendell operates several tiers above many people and it comes through so well on UA-cam. He's got the long-game view for silicon to understand implications for the industry from these press releases where I'll be glazed over wondering how this could ever benefit me. I've been watching his stuff off and on for years and he's right more often than wrong. He's part journalist, part nuclear physicist!
Wendell on the big screen crazy
The real question is what powers Wendell's teleportation device? Or does he have clones?
Intel is supposedly investing in packaging facility in Poland. People are thinking that it would be just putting products fabricated in Germany into boxes. I try to explain them that "Packaging" means something more when dealing with silicon. Packaging facilities can be as much advanced as fabrication and are more important than ever.
Intel's new packaging is one of the few things they have going for them. Also interesting that packaging and tiles is how they want to be known for breaking into what has historically been called chiplets. It makes sense in that every brand tries to forge it's own identity and marketing approach. Ultimately though, how successful it is will depends on Intel's execution, not marketing and academics. As Wendell said, it it's a bit tricky to ensure everything works well together and performance continues to scale, i.e. it's not just a given.
we love wendell
Wendell is such a good human being. I had a button on a Level1 KVM break when a cleaning service was too rough on it, and he 3D printed a replacement and sent it to me for free.
BIG packages are definitely the future!
I love new upcoming technology.
Products that makes it intact to the purchaser as well as looking cool on a shelf or In backdrop.
Wendel is #1!
Cxl sounds really interesting, almost revolutionizes modern computer architecture
WENDELL
I have never thought way about interposers. They're added cost to save costs. I'm dum and wendells a genius
The expanse offered insight into the future = all-glass phones.
Mix of glass and titanium, lol
The 'backside power delivery' will make way for smaller nodes in an area because there is less interference, so the performance will increase. They say they are 2 nodes ahead of everyone else, whatever that means.
It simply means they are two steps ahead.😢
It could mean 4 years but i think others will catch up sooner than that
Please put subtitles in your videos!
5:30 a bit like AMD resuing IO dies with newer generations of Ryzen (3000-5000, and 7000-)
Intels looking at all the benefits and posibilities AMD has been doing for the last few years.
Interesting 🤓
I've been covering this since Intel wanted to start selling TSMC package services in Arizona 2 years ago where have you been Adam and Wendell? mb
Wendell, a hundred different versions of a Xeon, haha. I do have the exact count of merchant open market and some of the custom SKUs. mb
'Developers. Developers. Developers' Woohoo!
packaging is reality
Holy shit I never realized how tall Adam is. I know Wendell is a big boy but damn I never thought APM would be even taller. Friend of the show wants to know how tall are you really Adam? Does the mere sight of you make Asians run in fear?
Yeah but what's APM's APM?
6'2", and it strikes fear in me when I need to make a thumbnail :P
-Adam
Was never a pro Starcraft player so it's gotta be low!
-Adam
Glas? Does it use light instead of electric?
No, it's glass vs their current substrate. The transistors and electrical remain the same materials.
Wel yea. It is all Veri cool but I hope Intel Daz on tha ultra cpu only p core an big ones and hipertreding.. for tha sek of tha name ey . !!
did he just avoided the question on glass can break ?
So, smaller dies to improve yields. Crazy packaging to reduce yield??
As for it being about developers? I was hoping for a few things that didn't get to me via keynotes, pre show, post show or even outside coverage. All I hear is "HybridAI" and using Intel DevCloud.
I want a workstation accelerator card, not Xeons and DDR5
Wendell is huge but Adam is huger 😵
Adam, how tall are you?
6' 2"
-Adam
Intel's been banging on about packaging and interconnects for God knows how long. They just kept missing targets or failing to secure customers. They were also their own worst customer...
It's so entertaining hearing people excited about AMD's previous technologies.
"OMG they can mix different generations of chiplets and IO dies"
"the cost to produce each chiplet is reduced"
"they can bin just the cores for server and the higher power draw dies to go desktop, they don't have to bin a whole monolithic chip"
It's like watching a Adored video from 2018, You wait Intel will make GPU's and 3D vcache chips next ;)
It's funny how things changed in just a few years oh how Intels comments that AMD's gluing their chips together didn't age well especially now that they are gonna be using a similar type of technology for their future processors .
Intel vs AMD approach are quite different, AMD's approach ends up with far more latency, hence why they dropped the amount of chips they are placing together. But of course there are pros and cons to each approach. And Intel actually had their tech about one generation after AMD had there's just that, with the fab issues Intel was having that slowed down their ability to bring it to market at the same.
@@entium1 it still doesn't change the facts that they said what they said even though they were building towards the same technology by the end of it all we can argue about semantics and how much better Intel's approach is compared to AMD when that all that matters here is that Intel said those things in a desperate attempt t o downplay AMD's achievement.
I'm waiting for a CPU with a bad-ass discrete GPU
Won't happen any time soon.
Depending on your definition of bad-ass the AMD Strix Halo leaks are looking pretty good
Maybe making a GPU with integrated CPU would be better for gaming related things
Network Attached Memory. NAM.
lmao adam's still using that intro from LTX
I really need to ditch it :P
-Adam
@@pcworld Please put subtitles in your videos!
Serious question. Are they twins?
In 2021 intel radically changed their cpu core paradigm with 2 type of cores
In 2023 intel radically chages their interconnected again
Things radically changes these days
I new Intel would have to go chiplet to stay competitive.
😏
they have been using chiplet designs for many years now
intel was using "chiplets" since the pentium d in 2005. thats when AMD said "intels cpu is just 2 dies glued together".
I am just a truck driver , Intel where would you like this load of gorilla glue ,,, lol ...ha ha
IMO, Intel has a plan to switch everything around, from being a TSMC customer, to making TSMC (and Samsung) its own customers, if we trust what Gelsinger says, (everything is on schedule) Intel is on the path becoming the semiconductor leader again with 20a and 18a process nodes, and then with gaining monopoly on glass packaging, TSMC and Samsung won't have a choice but to be the customers of Intel (assuming that Intel is going to provide them packging services), they won't have a choice but to fabricate their customers chips in house and send them to Intel for the packaging. (the other choice would be to develop their own glass substrate technologies which would take them 10-20 years, in the best case scenario).
More likely that either their patent on the glass substrate is not enforceable (for any reasons like from "it was patented before" to "others have actually a different manufacturing process") or there is gonna be a cross licensing happening. Also, you assume none of the others have started working on this. pretty sure samsung had something about glass substrate already.
I wanna see Intel's fancy new glass substrate. Why? RGB baby!
I'm pretty sure Ian from TechTechPotato mentioned it wont be see through.
At least that is what he mentioned from his latest video.
@@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527 I've seen some samples on display and they are definitely transparent, though some are also more like frosted glass.
They were making fun at AMD for gluing chips andd look at them now lol
AMD: You could not live with your failure, where did that bring you? BACK TO ME 🔥🚀
The implementation of it is very different. AMD uses the substrate to connect chiplets together. Intel will use active silicon (foveros) to connect all the chiplets together.
Much greater efficiency in doing that because the chiplets won't waste a lot of power when they're trying to communicate with other chiplets.
Instead of kid Adam, can you please have someone credible on these interviews? Adam is simply not qualified.
Engineering & worshipping commentary by grateful butlers...
For the sake of competition I really wished Intel had some "real" secret sauce. Just seems like some "glued together" stuff, of which they accused their competition years ago. While the glue is different, let's not pretend they are years behind at this point 🫣
Please put subtitles in your videos!