One thing stokely missed in his video is that AB was not punished with more than 2 strokes for a bad shot, he was punished with 1. He threw 6 bad shots, 6 strokes. He was in the lead and could have handed the pressure away by laying up and playing for par. He made the choice over and over again to go for the island with confidence, that's his style - he attacks, it is part of his game, totally understandable. His game just lacked the accuracy in those "90 seconds" and he didn't have it in him to lay up. You can artificially play the hole with a drop zone by laying up closer to the pin. You can't cry wolf and AB so far hasn't, all the credit to him.
You don’t have to throw to the island from where your tee shot lands. There’s a whole bunch of space in front of you that’s inbounds that you can throw to if you want to get closer. Doesn’t happen too often though because then your playing for par.
AB could have easily stayed in the fight by laying up and taking and easier shot into the green instead of going for it. This was bad course management on full display by AB and it cost him. AB is a great player but has struggled execute in the moments that matter. Corey Ellis had his win at maple hill slip though his fingers and he stepped up and nailed it.
Exactly. The risk reward is very straight forward. Scott talking about he hates seeing train wrecks, well it can only be a full blown train wreck if the player stubbornly keeps going for it. I loved the course. Thought it’s what pro disc golf SHOULD look like
AB screwed up off the tee, you have to mildly challenge the LEFT OB line, a slightly shorter drive is actually better, (like Ellis did ending up center fairway) then it's a shorter approach shot where on a forehand, you have an elongated island green with a one bale high backstop. Look at my comment on Stokley's video on hole 16.
The european open actually made the penalty less severe than a drop zone. If you go OB, you can throw your third shot to the edge and then pitch up 180 feet and take bogey. The break down that happened was a break down in Anthony's mental game. The course offered him a very mild penalty, which he chose not to take. Had he taken it, he would have been 1 shot down with 2 to play. Instead he gambled everything to take a 4 instead of a 5.
The out before the island i believe was same as all outs around the island... You need to throw again. So either he needed to make a short put to the out line and then try from there ..
Are you saying he could have advanced to the closest OB line, taken his 1 meter back and thrown from there? I thought Philo had mentioned on coverage that he wasn’t able to advance until he stuck the island.
I think they meant he could have pitched up and made the island shot significantly easier at the cost of a stroke, essentially giving himself the 'drop zone' with ob that Stokely wants.
@@stephenshuka2360 he could have pitched up much closer to the OB line. Yes, Philo is correct. If you don't stick inbounds you have to play from your previous lie. You don't advance to the OB line.
This was my reply to Scott: Anthony could have thrown a layup after he went OB. He could have made sure the worst he takes is a bogey, and keep himself in contention with 2 holes to play. He chose to tin cup the island instead, but that was his choice as a professional athlete. I do get where Scott's coming from but Anthony had options, and he made his choice when made 4 consecutive island attempts. A tough situation, a tough choice, but he could have played for par after the tee shot, and guaranteed he still had a lead, when with Corey's birdie. Choices were made, a professional tournament was won and lost, and I like the hole format. Plot twists are important, and so is the mental game required to navigate the professional state of play.
That's an interesting point, although I don't expect many elite players in the final holes to make that decision. Still, you're right about that choice. Another compromise would be to allow discs to advance on the fairway after the OB throw, but still require an in-bounds shot to attain the island. Still not a stop zone, but would provide some advancement and make this situation less likely.
It's a pro shot, on a pro hole, in a pro tournament. A pro should be able to execute this shot. Courses need more scoring separation, not less. He could have chosen to lay up.
@@shrapnel77 Touchy shots are hard when you are under all the pressure you could ever be on a tournament! The lie was about 280ft/85m from the 60 x 25ft island that is fast green.. From his lie he did not have the advantage of the forehand turn steering the disc into the island from the back side road and it stopping to the hay bales, so it was pure touchy distance soft landing forehand shot that he had to make
@@kahlaaja I get your point, but the man is a pro and should not have to take the amount of shots he did to execute it. if you or I did it, it's totally believable. That's why Anthony is out there and we're not. He HAS to be subjected to the criticism. It's the price you pay for being a pro.
No drop zones makes great TV coverage. Pros should gamble or play safe. Most folks love to watch a train wreck especially when the train goes off the track.
@@derpderpin1568ah… what the crap does this statement even mean ? its it the fan that makes sport even relevant. If the fans are not entertained youd be throwing frisbees for whatever you personally bet your card on. Your statement is illogical and quite frankly embarrassingly thought out.
@@derpderpin1568That is fairly illogical. From the game’s perspective, putting training wheels on the highest level of players in the game doesn’t enhance the experience for anyone in the tournament. It’s a free pass for those who fail at particular spots and is unfair to those to get unlucky in other moments. Why install a free pass at this crucial mark and not on every hole? Also, from the fan’s perspective, we absolutely drive the sport! Without fans, there are no sports. It’s as plain and simple as that! We aren’t the ones handcuffing every TD to make all sorts of changes or anything, but we move the needle in terms of entertainment purposes. Why would fans be okay with a product that eliminates all risk/reward and turns an athletic competition into a joke? That’s like if the NFL made a rule change that says if a receiver drops a pass, they actually get to move the ball to that line mark just because they tried really hard to catch it. It wouldn’t make sense and all it would do is piss off everyone watching.
I was rootin for Calvin, it's ok that Corey won. But I have to say - the way AB took it like a pro was really impressive. I've never kicked my backpack but in this situation I feel like I would have kicked it to the moon...
@@ShadowFaction24haha he would have been kicking Paul to the moon! 😂 and why didn’t Paul tell him to lay up after he went OB the first time? Isn’t that what a caddy is for? I mean it’s just one stroke come on your still in contention you put the pressure on Cory now and don’t allow him to look at the scoreboard to see if he easily won or not!!!!!!! Come on bois! Don’t blow it from one bad shot when you’re in the damn lead just take your medicine and get the hell out of there and forget it! ❤
AB handled it so respectfully post round. I'm sure it hurts but with a guy like AB, he will be in this position so many more times in his career. He has a chance to redeem himself a hundred times over. I would feel bad if it happened to someone who might not ever be in contention again but I have a feeling we might see redemption within a couple of weeks. It may be tough to see right now but good people have great things happen to them.
Definitely don't agree with Scotts opinion. It's not a hard hole on paper they don't have to throw a 450 feet flex to get to this island this is a stock hyzer for all the pros. You need this kind of mental test hole coming down the stretch on a Major level course. Personally I think it would take a way the excitement if they made the last holes easy lay up lay up par type of holes just my opinion tho.
Why didn't the majority of the field have dumpster fires on this hole? To prove the point of needing a drop zone would be that people 40 to 50 players were failing on this hole daily
Stokely is holding on to the good old days, while also wanting the sport to advance professionally and financially. Can’t have it both ways, unfortunately. As a fan, it might be heart wrenching to watch a meltdown like AB’s take place, but the fact they are able to take place just adds to the excitement and suspense.
Yeah, and these guys, while not making as much money as golfers, are still living the dream. People go through hard things in life, much harder than what AB went through here. In fact, he himself has probably been through much worse in his own life. Something that makes sports great is the struggle. When AB finally breaks through and wins, this moment will make the win even more special. Just like the struggles Ellis has had make his win that much more special.
@@thefriesens1071Yep, which brings me back to the statement Stokely makes about pro disc golf being small and still having a family feel. Perhaps the pros feel that way, but as a fan, I stopped feeling like family the moment they started charging admission to spectate at events.😁
Stokely sounded like a parent watching their little 5-6 year old play in those tee ball leagues where kids just run around in circles and there’s no actual game occurring. Sorry Scott, this is supposed to be a professional game done the right way. That’s going to involve heartbreak and stress from time to time to those who are unlucky or just collapse in moments. That’s how all sports work! If all sense of risk/reward are taken away by you holding everyone’s hand, then nobody would watch since the excitement of a live sporting event have been diminished or fully erased. When you’re out with your friends, you can let one buddy re-do a throw if they’re in a shitty mood and you just want them to not explode and ruin the round for everyone. That isn’t the case on the highest level of the game though, especially with how much funding there is nowadays.
I believe having Mcbeth as a caddie was a mistake... He got there with out him why would you change. Mcbeth is a great player that does t make him a great caddie or coach
@@ryancollins5111mcbeth is a great coach he has coached so many people it's ridiculous. Even on coverage you can see him talking with people about thier techniques and shot choices. He has held countless clinics and help people in other countries who never even seen a disc get to throwing fairly well.
I am new to disc golf and I can easily say that I love to see professionals playing in situations such as the hole 16 on the European Open. I was right there in Nokia this year and it's pretty cool to see how pros approach this hole. Unfortunately, this year was Barella and last year Conrad. I really hope this hole continues the same way next year.
I personally like these kinds of holes. They are few and far between, which makes them more of a unique thing to see and the make the pro have to think and make decisions. The whole idea of "a train wreck could happen and that's not good" is a silly take, in my opinion. Train wrecks happen in every sport in some way. Disc golf pros are constantly talking about how so many courses don't have scoring separation, well there you go.
I think AB’s decision making was solid. The fact that he could get there with a zone really brings into question the idea that burning a stroke to get closer would help his score on the hole. It was a shot that he could make so it made sense to throw it. I think that it was the execution that was poor not the decision making. His caddy was Paul McBeth. There is a good reason Paul didn’t grab him by the arm and tell him to lay up. The reason is that it wasn’t the play that offered the best chance of winning at the time.
If players were getting 8's and 9's left and right, Scott might have a point. Most didn't, though, including Scott. It's a mental test and AB failed it this time around, and it's a part of the game he's struggled with in the past. No hate for AB, but that's a part of the course that he'd practiced and prepared for. Lay it up or stick the shot next time.
Ab is a beast and seeing him take that quad like a man really showed how mature he is. I mean think about how many people might have cracked right there and bared thier emotions in a negative way. Lol shii i dont even have a pdga# and still beat myself up over bad results and large numbers on holes.
I feel Scott but I threw away a podium finish earlier by missing an island... I didn't think about how the hole sucked I thought about my shitty first shot
While I do agree with mr. Stokely I feel that it's on the player to make sure that you don't keep doing that. The drop zones possibly would have helped but not trying to throw the same shot five times in a row would have also done a huge difference for him
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the number of discs you can carry during a tournament. So wouldn't they come with duplicates of the same mold for this exact hole just in case. Sure at some point if they throw 20 shots at this green they're going to have to improvise, but I'd expect the first 3-4 attempts could easily be made with essentially the same disc, right?
Was just thinking about this, Mike! Personally I do bag the same mold and weight of discs.... Mainly because I'm at risk of losing them at any random moment and don't want to finish the round without it 😂🤣. These guys don't have that exact problem, but yeah, Icebergs right here. AB would def want that first disc back for his 3rd
Well, another reason that I prefer the drop zones over just constantly throwing from the point of your last throw is that if somebody, like AB, keeps missing the landing, it could take a little bit for them to finally land like he did. When that happens, that slows down the pace of play. Slowing down the pace of play punishes not only the player who keeps missing, is punishes the people on their card, having to wait before they can take their next turn, while also punishing the people on the card behind them waiting to start that hole.
Wrong analysis in everyway. AB could have simply gone putter/putter par and like most in DG their course mgmt sucks. Why do you think KT won by 20?, go watch her course mgmt. Also, why is it anytime DG is hard all they do is cry?
@@FormerAmericanIdol Im saying after he threw his "best disc" for the shot, there were other ways to play. And he had two shots, simple course mgmt and situational analysis.
he shouldve immediately went for the approach disc that he lands on the island with on his last throw, the first one was too long and was a driver, instead of going to a slower disc he keeps throwin drivers and keeps going long
I was saying that to myself when he went long several times in a row. Paul could have said something? In the end, it was not THAT difficult of a shot, it just got to the kid.
@@shrapnel77 yea I feel like caddies are just bag carriers in disc golf often, while they could offer suggestions and mental support if they know the player well enough, which I believe Paul does
He barely went long on his first shot. I'm not sure what he threw for his approach for his previous rounds but I'm assuming after barely going long that he'd rather throw a similar disc and make a slight adjustment vs throwing a completely different disc.
Shortly.. This event is best in the whole world everytime so it need to be special many ways. Special courses like 16. Atmosphere and Finnish fans are allways their own level every way. Been there 4 days and see those 8 AB bad shots and more awesome one’s in the weekend. Welcome everybody come next year to Finland see what’s the Beast all about and feel the vibe. Peace ✌🏼
Watching highlights, I was really pulling for AB to finally get his win and was absolutely crushed to see this meltdown. Man. That was brutal. He was playing so well.
Basically his disc choice should have been the Zone to start. Lesson learned. You have to allow for the adrenaline and the ground play with a faster disc
The 'train wreck', as Stokely puts it, was the most exciting and dramatic part of the tournament. Watching professionals crack under pressure is wildly entertaining. Maybe this a case where the interests of the players and the fans diverge.
@@derpderpin1568Um,…yes, it should. Take baseball and the pitch clock as a reason why it should. “Professianal Sports” are a business, and fans are the customers. If you don’t appease your customers, your business won’t last long.
Have to agree here with the @derpderpin1568. I mean sport nowadays is a business (doesn't matter you like it or not). So it must be entertaining! Otherwise nobody would pay to professionals.
So if fans wanted every player to pull from a hat to see if they birdied or bogeyed a hole they should do that? There still needs to be sport integrity
I don't give a sh*t what Scott Stokely feels about the meltdown. It was riveting to watch. I don't root for AB, I actually root against him. So for me, this was must watch TV. For those that love him heartbreak. It's much more exciting than a 50ft Putt from a dropzone. Meltdowns are part of sports. Deal with it ladies. 😂
AB going for it was the right decision. He only was leading Corey by 1 stroke and Kyle and Ezra by 3. Laying up would be conceding a stroke and momentum with two holes to play where anything can happen. Also he would think that even if he missed it on a first attempt he would likely stick it on a second attempt and still only lose one stroke. Hindsight is 20-20 but at this point in a major I don’t think any major champion would recommend laying up and conceding momentum.
I have to agree with Scott, it's not entertaining to watch a train wreck, you may not be able to look away but it's not because of the joy you feel watching. Watching AB wreck out, or Catrina Allen at OTB, or Eveliina having putting problems makes my soul hurt.
Cant agree with here with Eveliinas putting problems would brake somebody's hear. It's just fundamentally part of the game. It's like saying that it brakes my heart that you cant drive straight :D or what ever part of the game. So name one true champ from the MPO who cant putt reliably. It's just not the case...
@@thomak28 not saying it's not part of the game, just that watching train wrecks is not really good entertainment. That's why no one is lining up to watch me miss the island until my bag is empty.
Great breakdown. AB was just on Drew Gidson UA-cam. He said he watched this videos and others like this. And read all the comments until the pain stopped. 😮
You're out of position with a stroke lead. Lay up, take an easy par. He didn't have a catastrophic meltdown, he made a bad decision. He learned a lesson and next time will have the experience to make a better play.
I couldn’t believe that when I saw it and absolutely feel for AB. To be that dialed in for 3 5/6ths of a tournament to fall apart on the last couple holes is brutal. That said it is part of the game and we’ve witnessed it many times with lots of different players. How many times has Gossage chocked away victory with yipping east putts to seal the win? I’ve seen sudden death bonus rounds where Heimburg threw OB off the tee and lost it. Recently you have Semeraud and Henna both 4/5 putting from inside the circle. Focus and finishing is part of the game, despite how painful it can be to watch someone get the yips, or just have their game break down after such a steady start it happens. AB will hopefully learn from this and become a better player for it.
I love this hole I wished every course had a hole like this, mental game is part of competitve sport. Scott stokely is just to soft the hole didnt cost him the tournament his mental game got him, and that separated him from the group, lots and lots of players nailed this shot with ease
Looking at the footage AB's teeshot was not the greatest. He was not in the preferred landing zone but pretty far back near the OB-line. He was not forced to make the shot. He could have laid up near the line and played for a safer par. Just like in woods golf. If you miss the fairway and end up deep in the woods. The hardest shot in disc golf is to know when you have to accept the situation and pitch up to the fairway. That would have been an option to AB. Accept the par and keep hopes alive. He choose to take the risk and attack for birdie from out of position. That is what makes this hole totally different from USDGC hole 17. Here you have the option to lay up and play for par. Plus you only get penalised 1 stroke per missed shot. I am a fan os Stokely's but on this topic I disagree with him. This is a good hole. The player has options to choose from.
AB is not the first person to lose this tournament on that exact hole. Super bummer, I have been a fan of AB for a long time. He will win multiple elite series and majors.
Nothing is ruined in his case lol. He's. Kid his career is really just getting started. He's gaining more fans every event because he's a beast and has power that exceeds most of the top pros. It's exciting to have him on a lead card ever time. Look at people like matty-o, never won but sill loved and has been having success. AB is still just getting started. Lol "ruined"
We aren’t the PGA tour.. this is disc golf. There is not enough separation on the courses and the drop zone seems to be a bail out in most cases. At the professional level you should be able to execute that shot with the pressure or changed his course management
I mean, its same for all. And for me im always fan of harder and harder courses. Its stupid that they are able to play every course -10 they could make the beast even harder. Its totally fine to have throws that just is make it or break it.
I was wondering where caddy/friend McBeth was on this hole ? I did not see him offer "advice" - and I'm guessing he knew all the options ? In fairness, maybe he did advise and I did not see it. It's the same for all players, in any case. I get Scott's point, to me it's sort of a 6 of one, half dozen of the other - all the players have the same set of rule based options on a hole. I appreciate AB going for it, sometimes it just ain't workin'. Another great selection video.
The first card I ever followed in person was Corey v Calvin at DGLO last year. That was such an epic battle and his throw in was so sick, I have been rooting for him to get a W ever since.
You should at least be able to move up to the first point that it crossed the OB line. Throwing three. Corey sure did have a perfect drive. I like to watch that hole with a 20 MPH cross wind, right to left...face wind for the tee shot. They would all be making eights, or worse!
The gamble factor adds a little flavor to these courses. Play it safe or let it ride? No golfer is spared and everyone is left with a choice. It would make no sense to me if this was like.... Hole 5. But hole 16 at a major tournament? You can't say it's not exciting for the fans
I think adrenaline got AB. All the throws were long. 16 is known for this. Makes it exciting and terrifying. It's part of the game and it's happened before. Hopefully AB puts it behind him and focuses on the next event.
I get what Scott Stokely is saying and I agree with his "sick to his stomach" sentiment. However...... More holes like this may be the kind of thing Simon Lizotte is asking for. What else would create the stroke separation and jeopardy that he wants?
Though I also hate to see it.. I have to agree with you. Its the same playing field for all players.. Is the breakdown heartbreaking.. sure.. yup... AB is a pro discgolfer that will bounce back but Im sure it absolutely is crushing him right now. Its the same playing field for all.
I don't think stokley had a good take but I do agree that island holes with no real lay up or drop zone option is not exciting. It puts too much emphasis on one shot.
If you ask me, he threw solid shots the first two times, the adenaline was high along with his extreme power, made him throw a tad long. The third disc was a matter of not having his correct disc to throw. Props to him. He played great, handled it well.
The one surprise to me was McBeth, who said NOTHING to Barela during these tense minutes. Paul could have called him off, told him to pitch up for the bogey, slow him down. It was clear Barela was rushing and overwhelmed. These are the moments when a real experienced person (like McBeth) can help a great deal. Barela still has to make the shot.
I saw this meltdown live. I have to say, I was really surprised how AB played the hole being in the worst spot to cross. I have seen Kevin Jones and many others to lay it up when in similar position. It was just bad decision making by AB.
Scott forgets, that AB did this to himself - he is not a victim! He would´ve had that exact "2 stroke penalty" but he himself chose otherwise: if he would´ve after the first missed try gone and laid up closer to the island, there the shot over would've been A LOT easier than from back there. That was one of harder spots to try and stick a shot in anyways, and imo he should've risk managed rather than tried to get more into lead there.. (Trust me I was in the crowd behind the island! :D) And that is the brilliance of the 16: there is no safety net, and you can choose how much risk you will have to handle! Sometimes a lot of risk costs, just like in real life. Disc golf at high level is a lot about performing on a good level while under pressure of people watching, many big cameras pointing, every shot counting, not messing up when you're in a good placement etc.. This sort of hole at that point of a course/tournament is also just one way to increase the pressure
Just curious. Does anyone know if someone in the AB situation could just walk up to the green and retrieve his disc(s) and go back and shoot the same one again?
A train wreck hole should be included in EVERY major! And on every course (IMO). Matter of fact, I’m now going to create one on my personal course! What kind of BS is Stokley saying? If all players had million dollar contracts?! Idiota! IF DISC GOLF TOURNAMENTS PAID OUT ONE MILLION DOLLARS THEN THE TRAIN WRECK WOULD BE AS BIG AS WINNING THE MILLION!
I feel a person's opinion on drop zones has a correlation to their level of empathy for the professionals. A person who sees the human being first sees the logic of the drop zone and a person who sees the professional first dislikes the drop zone. Where your opinion of the topic lies depends as much on your temperament as it does on how you see the game design played.
I really felt bad for AB and did not enjoy the incident. But, I had not realised he had the option of advancing to the edge of the hazard area with a penalty, as people pointed out below. So I suppose it was his choice in the end.
If it is an “artificial island” hole as in, it’s not an actual island but something marked off … anything outside of the marked area should be hazard and you play from where it lies with a penalty stroke. It seems gimmicky to me to pretend something is an island when it’s not.
Champions win because of their mental toughness, not skill. Both AB and Clavin have shown to crack under pressure. Especially when expectations come into play. When there are no expectation, they have spectacular rounds, when they are expected to have a great round, they choke. As far as the landing zone, I loved the drama! More courses need to create such moments and reward good play and penalize bad. Too many courses allow you to get away with a PAR if you throw OB.
Calvin has his moments. Followed him the last 2 years on Sunday at Jonesboro, and he played great and won. He has also failed a bunch of times. Interesting to know what the difference is when he succeeds under pressure and when he doesn't.
I'm kind of getting bored of so many players getting injured because courses stress distance over accuracy. Disc golf at the highest level should reward placement over raw power, and it should emphasize this value by doing away with what is a time saving device known as a drop zone.
Admittedly I don’t know how far it is from the front of the OB across, because I think if it’s pretty easy to pitch up and across for a par, then I agree with you, the No drop one is a great idea
@@weedmanbrandon yeah id say 200 is routine for a pro, but 330 is still not too bad, as if I know damn well id be throwing OB at least as many times as AB did
Respectfully, I have to go with Scott on this one. The initial shot is exciting, yes. But the second, third, and fourth shots aren’t exciting - they only make me feel bad for him… it’s almost cringy. Plus… this isn’t good score separation, it’s punishment for not making the island. A two stroke penalty is all that’s needed.
I was thinking the same thing about AB losing discs that he would normally choose to throw on that hole. Why can't his caddy just run down there and retrieve them really quick?
Sorry Scott, but that opinion is downright whacky for any professional sport. At the highest level, there is supposed to be risk/reward and this level of heartbreak from time to time. The course design wasn’t at fault, since that throw isn’t supposed to be too difficult for a high-end pro. It’s a shame AB broke down and lost in this fashion, but suggesting what Stokely did is the definition of holding back disc golf from being taken seriously. That would only hurt the game!
There should be a drop zone with a chance at a long par save. Even if he pitches up to the end of the fairway with his 4th shot here (after going OB) he's staring down double unless he sinks the 100ft+ throw in. Having players simply pitch up with their 2nd shot is boring and doesn't make for good golf. A likely bogey from going OB and having to throw from a drop zone is penalty enough, rewards good throws, punishes bad ones, and would have made for a more interesting finish, no one wants to see the train wreck.
At the end of the day it’s sports. I know there are humans on the other side but at the end of the day, the players get paid because they are entertainment.
The only course without a drop zone though and AB chances were good to win , y'all saying excuses and no drop zone is okay ... I would agree when the zone your throwing for is bigger and actually a island hole. This is not ... There's no water and a tiny zone to land in not even is big as circle one... There definitely should be a drop zone. This is not a true island hole and this should of not happened. I completely agree with Scott Stokey and you would think all you amateurs commenting and also the host of this video would realize that Scott knows what he's talking about here.
One thing stokely missed in his video is that AB was not punished with more than 2 strokes for a bad shot, he was punished with 1. He threw 6 bad shots, 6 strokes. He was in the lead and could have handed the pressure away by laying up and playing for par. He made the choice over and over again to go for the island with confidence, that's his style - he attacks, it is part of his game, totally understandable. His game just lacked the accuracy in those "90 seconds" and he didn't have it in him to lay up. You can artificially play the hole with a drop zone by laying up closer to the pin. You can't cry wolf and AB so far hasn't, all the credit to him.
Do we think Paul had any of that advice as midround caddy?
Didn't think you could lay up on an island hole
You don’t have to throw to the island from where your tee shot lands. There’s a whole bunch of space in front of you that’s inbounds that you can throw to if you want to get closer. Doesn’t happen too often though because then your playing for par.
This is exactly how I feel!
Great points. Stokely is just bringing his feelings into things unnecessarily. His relationship to players makes him a tad squed.
AB could have easily stayed in the fight by laying up and taking and easier shot into the green instead of going for it. This was bad course management on full display by AB and it cost him. AB is a great player but has struggled execute in the moments that matter. Corey Ellis had his win at maple hill slip though his fingers and he stepped up and nailed it.
Exactly. The risk reward is very straight forward. Scott talking about he hates seeing train wrecks, well it can only be a full blown train wreck if the player stubbornly keeps going for it. I loved the course. Thought it’s what pro disc golf SHOULD look like
AB screwed up off the tee, you have to mildly challenge the LEFT OB line, a slightly shorter drive is actually better, (like Ellis did ending up center fairway) then it's a shorter approach shot where on a forehand, you have an elongated island green with a one bale high backstop. Look at my comment on Stokley's video on hole 16.
The european open actually made the penalty less severe than a drop zone. If you go OB, you can throw your third shot to the edge and then pitch up 180 feet and take bogey. The break down that happened was a break down in Anthony's mental game. The course offered him a very mild penalty, which he chose not to take. Had he taken it, he would have been 1 shot down with 2 to play. Instead he gambled everything to take a 4 instead of a 5.
Well put
The out before the island i believe was same as all outs around the island... You need to throw again.
So either he needed to make a short put to the out line and then try from there ..
Are you saying he could have advanced to the closest OB line, taken his 1 meter back and thrown from there? I thought Philo had mentioned on coverage that he wasn’t able to advance until he stuck the island.
I think they meant he could have pitched up and made the island shot significantly easier at the cost of a stroke, essentially giving himself the 'drop zone' with ob that Stokely wants.
@@stephenshuka2360 he could have pitched up much closer to the OB line. Yes, Philo is correct. If you don't stick inbounds you have to play from your previous lie. You don't advance to the OB line.
This was my reply to Scott:
Anthony could have thrown a layup after he went OB. He could have made sure the worst he takes is a bogey, and keep himself in contention with 2 holes to play.
He chose to tin cup the island instead, but that was his choice as a professional athlete.
I do get where Scott's coming from but Anthony had options, and he made his choice when made 4 consecutive island attempts. A tough situation, a tough choice, but he could have played for par after the tee shot, and guaranteed he still had a lead, when with Corey's birdie.
Choices were made, a professional tournament was won and lost, and I like the hole format. Plot twists are important, and so is the mental game required to navigate the professional state of play.
That's an interesting point, although I don't expect many elite players in the final holes to make that decision. Still, you're right about that choice.
Another compromise would be to allow discs to advance on the fairway after the OB throw, but still require an in-bounds shot to attain the island. Still not a stop zone, but would provide some advancement and make this situation less likely.
And your reply to Scott indicates why Scott is viewed as "the conscience of disc golf" and lesser experienced players aren't.
While I would give AB a 98% chance of hitting it, a shorter approach shot can be messed up too.
It adds chaos to golf. Like painted ob on a golf course.
I just don’t understand how a player can avoid the smart play and keep failing like that with Paul McBeth as their caddie.
It's a pro shot, on a pro hole, in a pro tournament.
A pro should be able to execute this shot.
Courses need more scoring separation, not less.
He could have chosen to lay up.
Honestly, it was not THAT difficult of a shot. He had a great lie, good footing. No trees to throw around.
Ah yes...the old coulda shoulda woulda...didn't...lol.
@@shrapnel77 Touchy shots are hard when you are under all the pressure you could ever be on a tournament! The lie was about 280ft/85m from the 60 x 25ft island that is fast green.. From his lie he did not have the advantage of the forehand turn steering the disc into the island from the back side road and it stopping to the hay bales, so it was pure touchy distance soft landing forehand shot that he had to make
@@kahlaaja I get your point, but the man is a pro and should not have to take the amount of shots he did to execute it. if you or I did it, it's totally believable. That's why Anthony is out there and we're not. He HAS to be subjected to the criticism. It's the price you pay for being a pro.
No drop zones makes great TV coverage. Pros should gamble or play safe. Most folks love to watch a train wreck especially when the train goes off the track.
Sports should never ever favor fan interest over the game.
@@derpderpin1568ah… what the crap does this statement even mean ? its it the fan that makes sport even relevant. If the fans are not entertained youd be throwing frisbees for whatever you personally bet your card on. Your statement is illogical and quite frankly embarrassingly thought out.
@@derpderpin1568That is fairly illogical. From the game’s perspective, putting training wheels on the highest level of players in the game doesn’t enhance the experience for anyone in the tournament. It’s a free pass for those who fail at particular spots and is unfair to those to get unlucky in other moments. Why install a free pass at this crucial mark and not on every hole? Also, from the fan’s perspective, we absolutely drive the sport! Without fans, there are no sports. It’s as plain and simple as that! We aren’t the ones handcuffing every TD to make all sorts of changes or anything, but we move the needle in terms of entertainment purposes. Why would fans be okay with a product that eliminates all risk/reward and turns an athletic competition into a joke? That’s like if the NFL made a rule change that says if a receiver drops a pass, they actually get to move the ball to that line mark just because they tried really hard to catch it. It wouldn’t make sense and all it would do is piss off everyone watching.
I was rootin for Calvin, it's ok that Corey won. But I have to say - the way AB took it like a pro was really impressive. I've never kicked my backpack but in this situation I feel like I would have kicked it to the moon...
But didn't he have a caddy carrying his backpack? ;) Seeing him take it like this is really impressive, it shows he is a really great guy.
@@bjorngrundey5695 He could have kicked his caddy 😆
@@jaym6945I'm not sure how Mcbeth would have taken that kick. Lol
@@ShadowFaction24haha he would have been kicking Paul to the moon! 😂 and why didn’t Paul tell him to lay up after he went OB the first time? Isn’t that what a caddy is for? I mean it’s just one stroke come on your still in contention you put the pressure on Cory now and don’t allow him to look at the scoreboard to see if he easily won or not!!!!!!! Come on bois! Don’t blow it from one bad shot when you’re in the damn lead just take your medicine and get the hell out of there and forget it! ❤
@@MikeJones. Paul would not have layed up either
AB handled it so respectfully post round. I'm sure it hurts but with a guy like AB, he will be in this position so many more times in his career. He has a chance to redeem himself a hundred times over. I would feel bad if it happened to someone who might not ever be in contention again but I have a feeling we might see redemption within a couple of weeks. It may be tough to see right now but good people have great things happen to them.
Definitely don't agree with Scotts opinion. It's not a hard hole on paper they don't have to throw a 450 feet flex to get to this island this is a stock hyzer for all the pros. You need this kind of mental test hole coming down the stretch on a Major level course. Personally I think it would take a way the excitement if they made the last holes easy lay up lay up par type of holes just my opinion tho.
Why didn't the majority of the field have dumpster fires on this hole? To prove the point of needing a drop zone would be that people 40 to 50 players were failing on this hole daily
Add a 20 MPH wind, and see how fast it becomes ridiculous. They would have to go up and collect their discs to keep going...lol.
Stokely is holding on to the good old days, while also wanting the sport to advance professionally and financially. Can’t have it both ways, unfortunately. As a fan, it might be heart wrenching to watch a meltdown like AB’s take place, but the fact they are able to take place just adds to the excitement and suspense.
Yeah, and these guys, while not making as much money as golfers, are still living the dream. People go through hard things in life, much harder than what AB went through here. In fact, he himself has probably been through much worse in his own life. Something that makes sports great is the struggle. When AB finally breaks through and wins, this moment will make the win even more special. Just like the struggles Ellis has had make his win that much more special.
@@thefriesens1071Yep, which brings me back to the statement Stokely makes about pro disc golf being small and still having a family feel. Perhaps the pros feel that way, but as a fan, I stopped feeling like family the moment they started charging admission to spectate at events.😁
Stokely sounded like a parent watching their little 5-6 year old play in those tee ball leagues where kids just run around in circles and there’s no actual game occurring. Sorry Scott, this is supposed to be a professional game done the right way. That’s going to involve heartbreak and stress from time to time to those who are unlucky or just collapse in moments. That’s how all sports work! If all sense of risk/reward are taken away by you holding everyone’s hand, then nobody would watch since the excitement of a live sporting event have been diminished or fully erased. When you’re out with your friends, you can let one buddy re-do a throw if they’re in a shitty mood and you just want them to not explode and ruin the round for everyone. That isn’t the case on the highest level of the game though, especially with how much funding there is nowadays.
@@Flint_Hyzermatici agree wholeheartedly. Charging for admission was a "seachange".
I blame the caddie! Terrible advice by Paul to his son! 😂
Actually, Anthony looked like Paul's dad.
I’m honestly surprised this happened to a player with McBeth as their caddie.
I believe having Mcbeth as a caddie was a mistake... He got there with out him why would you change. Mcbeth is a great player that does t make him a great caddie or coach
@@ryancollins5111mcbeth is a great coach he has coached so many people it's ridiculous. Even on coverage you can see him talking with people about thier techniques and shot choices. He has held countless clinics and help people in other countries who never even seen a disc get to throwing fairly well.
@@weedmanbrandon Coach and caddie are two very different jobs.
Surprised McBeth didn't talk him off the ledge.
It very well could have made it worse had he said anything. IMHO, PM should not have taken up his bag mid round.
I am new to disc golf and I can easily say that I love to see professionals playing in situations such as the hole 16 on the European Open. I was right there in Nokia this year and it's pretty cool to see how pros approach this hole. Unfortunately, this year was Barella and last year Conrad. I really hope this hole continues the same way next year.
I personally like these kinds of holes. They are few and far between, which makes them more of a unique thing to see and the make the pro have to think and make decisions. The whole idea of "a train wreck could happen and that's not good" is a silly take, in my opinion. Train wrecks happen in every sport in some way. Disc golf pros are constantly talking about how so many courses don't have scoring separation, well there you go.
Such a great observation about disc selection making the problem worse as it worsens
I think AB’s decision making was solid. The fact that he could get there with a zone really brings into question the idea that burning a stroke to get closer would help his score on the hole. It was a shot that he could make so it made sense to throw it. I think that it was the execution that was poor not the decision making. His caddy was Paul McBeth. There is a good reason Paul didn’t grab him by the arm and tell him to lay up. The reason is that it wasn’t the play that offered the best chance of winning at the time.
When AB thrrew his first shot it looked great to me. It was just slightly long. Had he stuck it nobody would had ever questioned him going for it.
If players were getting 8's and 9's left and right, Scott might have a point. Most didn't, though, including Scott. It's a mental test and AB failed it this time around, and it's a part of the game he's struggled with in the past. No hate for AB, but that's a part of the course that he'd practiced and prepared for. Lay it up or stick the shot next time.
Ab is a beast and seeing him take that quad like a man really showed how mature he is. I mean think about how many people might have cracked right there and bared thier emotions in a negative way. Lol shii i dont even have a pdga# and still beat myself up over bad results and large numbers on holes.
I've played at a high level, and no matter how many birdies I had, if I made a bogey I would want to leave the course...it was that bad...lol.
I feel Scott but I threw away a podium finish earlier by missing an island... I didn't think about how the hole sucked I thought about my shitty first shot
While I do agree with mr. Stokely I feel that it's on the player to make sure that you don't keep doing that. The drop zones possibly would have helped but not trying to throw the same shot five times in a row would have also done a huge difference for him
I cannot believe with a 6 time champ as caddy, that this happened!?!?
Paul isn't a caddie, and should not have intervened.
@@raymondvorndran4306 Maybe not, but AB should have asked for advice. IMO
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the number of discs you can carry during a tournament. So wouldn't they come with duplicates of the same mold for this exact hole just in case. Sure at some point if they throw 20 shots at this green they're going to have to improvise, but I'd expect the first 3-4 attempts could easily be made with essentially the same disc, right?
Was just thinking about this, Mike! Personally I do bag the same mold and weight of discs.... Mainly because I'm at risk of losing them at any random moment and don't want to finish the round without it 😂🤣. These guys don't have that exact problem, but yeah, Icebergs right here. AB would def want that first disc back for his 3rd
Well, another reason that I prefer the drop zones over just constantly throwing from the point of your last throw is that if somebody, like AB, keeps missing the landing, it could take a little bit for them to finally land like he did. When that happens, that slows down the pace of play. Slowing down the pace of play punishes not only the player who keeps missing, is punishes the people on their card, having to wait before they can take their next turn, while also punishing the people on the card behind them waiting to start that hole.
And he has the best player ever on his bag. He should have consulted Paul
Wrong analysis in everyway. AB could have simply gone putter/putter par and like most in DG their course mgmt sucks. Why do you think KT won by 20?, go watch her course mgmt. Also, why is it anytime DG is hard all they do is cry?
Maybe at YOUR level par is considered good enough. But remember that's why you are where you are, and not where they are.
@@FormerAmericanIdol Im saying after he threw his "best disc" for the shot, there were other ways to play. And he had two shots, simple course mgmt and situational analysis.
he shouldve immediately went for the approach disc that he lands on the island with on his last throw, the first one was too long and was a driver, instead of going to a slower disc he keeps throwin drivers and keeps going long
Exactly! He should've known to disc down to a zone.
I was saying that to myself when he went long several times in a row. Paul could have said something? In the end, it was not THAT difficult of a shot, it just got to the kid.
@@shrapnel77 yea I feel like caddies are just bag carriers in disc golf often, while they could offer suggestions and mental support if they know the player well enough, which I believe Paul does
He barely went long on his first shot. I'm not sure what he threw for his approach for his previous rounds but I'm assuming after barely going long that he'd rather throw a similar disc and make a slight adjustment vs throwing a completely different disc.
@@Derek_1111 he went like 15ft long, it went under the fence
Shortly.. This event is best in the whole world everytime so it need to be special many ways. Special courses like 16. Atmosphere and Finnish fans are allways their own level every way. Been there 4 days and see those 8 AB bad shots and more awesome one’s in the weekend. Welcome everybody come next year to Finland see what’s the Beast all about and feel the vibe. Peace ✌🏼
AB will get more fans because of this. Not less!
Watching highlights, I was really pulling for AB to finally get his win and was absolutely crushed to see this meltdown. Man. That was brutal. He was playing so well.
Basically his disc choice should have been the Zone to start. Lesson learned. You have to allow for the adrenaline and the ground play with a faster disc
I think it was still exciting, What I could not figure out was why Barela kept throwing drivers why not disc down to a mid after 2-3 shots going long.
1st 2 were mids i think.
The 'train wreck', as Stokely puts it, was the most exciting and dramatic part of the tournament. Watching professionals crack under pressure is wildly entertaining. Maybe this a case where the interests of the players and the fans diverge.
Sports should never ever favor fan interest over the game.
@@derpderpin1568Um,…yes, it should. Take baseball and the pitch clock as a reason why it should. “Professianal Sports” are a business, and fans are the customers. If you don’t appease your customers, your business won’t last long.
Have to agree here with the @derpderpin1568. I mean sport nowadays is a business (doesn't matter you like it or not). So it must be entertaining! Otherwise nobody would pay to professionals.
So if fans wanted every player to pull from a hat to see if they birdied or bogeyed a hole they should do that? There still needs to be sport integrity
@@ryancollins5111 There would be zero fan interest in complete randomness with no skill component.
I don't give a sh*t what Scott Stokely feels about the meltdown. It was riveting to watch. I don't root for AB, I actually root against him. So for me, this was must watch TV. For those that love him heartbreak. It's much more exciting than a 50ft Putt from a dropzone. Meltdowns are part of sports. Deal with it ladies. 😂
Agreed wholeheartedly.
So hard to watch, absolutely gutted for AB. Can’t wait to watch him finish a big tournament on top!
AB going for it was the right decision. He only was leading Corey by 1 stroke and Kyle and Ezra by 3. Laying up would be conceding a stroke and momentum with two holes to play where anything can happen. Also he would think that even if he missed it on a first attempt he would likely stick it on a second attempt and still only lose one stroke. Hindsight is 20-20 but at this point in a major I don’t think any major champion would recommend laying up and conceding momentum.
Yup. 100% agree
I have to agree with Scott, it's not entertaining to watch a train wreck, you may not be able to look away but it's not because of the joy you feel watching. Watching AB wreck out, or Catrina Allen at OTB, or Eveliina having putting problems makes my soul hurt.
Cant agree with here with Eveliinas putting problems would brake somebody's hear. It's just fundamentally part of the game. It's like saying that it brakes my heart that you cant drive straight :D or what ever part of the game. So name one true champ from the MPO who cant putt reliably. It's just not the case...
@@thomak28 not saying it's not part of the game, just that watching train wrecks is not really good entertainment. That's why no one is lining up to watch me miss the island until my bag is empty.
Great breakdown.
AB was just on Drew Gidson UA-cam.
He said he watched this videos and others like this. And read all the comments until the pain stopped. 😮
There's nothing wrong by trying on a final round of a major. He took 6, 3 and 4 on previous rounds. Ellis 6, 4, 4. Full respect for AB.
Cory layed up ever round and still won. It’s a choice. All players got to decide if they where gamblers.
You're out of position with a stroke lead. Lay up, take an easy par. He didn't have a catastrophic meltdown, he made a bad decision. He learned a lesson and next time will have the experience to make a better play.
I couldn’t believe that when I saw it and absolutely feel for AB. To be that dialed in for 3 5/6ths of a tournament to fall apart on the last couple holes is brutal.
That said it is part of the game and we’ve witnessed it many times with lots of different players. How many times has Gossage chocked away victory with yipping east putts to seal the win? I’ve seen sudden death bonus rounds where Heimburg threw OB off the tee and lost it. Recently you have Semeraud and Henna both 4/5 putting from inside the circle. Focus and finishing is part of the game, despite how painful it can be to watch someone get the yips, or just have their game break down after such a steady start it happens. AB will hopefully learn from this and become a better player for it.
I love this hole I wished every course had a hole like this, mental game is part of competitve sport. Scott stokely is just to soft the hole didnt cost him the tournament his mental game got him, and that separated him from the group, lots and lots of players nailed this shot with ease
Stokely seems like such a kind soul
That course is perfect. Don't touch it.
Looking at the footage AB's teeshot was not the greatest. He was not in the preferred landing zone but pretty far back near the OB-line.
He was not forced to make the shot. He could have laid up near the line and played for a safer par.
Just like in woods golf. If you miss the fairway and end up deep in the woods. The hardest shot in disc golf is to know when you have to accept the situation and pitch up to the fairway.
That would have been an option to AB. Accept the par and keep hopes alive.
He choose to take the risk and attack for birdie from out of position.
That is what makes this hole totally different from USDGC hole 17. Here you have the option to lay up and play for par. Plus you only get penalised 1 stroke per missed shot.
I am a fan os Stokely's but on this topic I disagree with him. This is a good hole. The player has options to choose from.
The problem lies in the pdga wanting a waiver signed for having a drop zone. Weird. It is worded weird as well.
He went to the Kevin Jones course mgmt school
AB is not the first person to lose this tournament on that exact hole. Super bummer, I have been a fan of AB for a long time. He will win multiple elite series and majors.
90 seconds of disc golf is not what ruined Barela's career. I think we can agree that the lack of wins in general has ruined his present.
Nothing is ruined in his case lol. He's. Kid his career is really just getting started. He's gaining more fans every event because he's a beast and has power that exceeds most of the top pros. It's exciting to have him on a lead card ever time. Look at people like matty-o, never won but sill loved and has been having success. AB is still just getting started. Lol "ruined"
We aren’t the PGA tour.. this is disc golf. There is not enough separation on the courses and the drop zone seems to be a bail out in most cases. At the professional level you should be able to execute that shot with the pressure or changed his course management
I mean, its same for all. And for me im always fan of harder and harder courses. Its stupid that they are able to play every course -10 they could make the beast even harder. Its totally fine to have throws that just is make it or break it.
I was wondering where caddy/friend McBeth was on this hole ? I did not see him offer "advice" - and I'm guessing he knew all the options ? In fairness, maybe he did advise and I did not see it. It's the same for all players, in any case. I get Scott's point, to me it's sort of a 6 of one, half dozen of the other - all the players have the same set of rule based options on a hole. I appreciate AB going for it, sometimes it just ain't workin'. Another great selection video.
Dude has McBeth caddying for him....
Absolutely agree with Scott
The first card I ever followed in person was Corey v Calvin at DGLO last year. That was such an epic battle and his throw in was so sick, I have been rooting for him to get a W ever since.
Is there any insight on the conversations between Barela and McBeth while this is happening?
You should at least be able to move up to the first point that it crossed the OB line. Throwing three. Corey sure did have a perfect drive. I like to watch that hole with a 20 MPH cross wind, right to left...face wind for the tee shot. They would all be making eights, or worse!
The gamble factor adds a little flavor to these courses. Play it safe or let it ride? No golfer is spared and everyone is left with a choice. It would make no sense to me if this was like.... Hole 5. But hole 16 at a major tournament? You can't say it's not exciting for the fans
I think adrenaline got AB. All the throws were long. 16 is known for this. Makes it exciting and terrifying. It's part of the game and it's happened before. Hopefully AB puts it behind him and focuses on the next event.
I get what Scott Stokely is saying and I agree with his "sick to his stomach" sentiment. However...... More holes like this may be the kind of thing Simon Lizotte is asking for. What else would create the stroke separation and jeopardy that he wants?
He could have laid up for an easier upshot though right?
Though I also hate to see it.. I have to agree with you. Its the same playing field for all players.. Is the breakdown heartbreaking.. sure.. yup... AB is a pro discgolfer that will bounce back but Im sure it absolutely is crushing him right now. Its the same playing field for all.
I don't think stokley had a good take but I do agree that island holes with no real lay up or drop zone option is not exciting. It puts too much emphasis on one shot.
If you ask me, he threw solid shots the first two times, the adenaline was high along with his extreme power, made him throw a tad long. The third disc was a matter of not having his correct disc to throw. Props to him. He played great, handled it well.
The one surprise to me was McBeth, who said NOTHING to Barela during these tense minutes. Paul could have called him off, told him to pitch up for the bogey, slow him down. It was clear Barela was rushing and overwhelmed. These are the moments when a real experienced person (like McBeth) can help a great deal. Barela still has to make the shot.
Ya how is McBeth your caddie and he doesn’t tell you to play the smart move. He’s the king of playing smart
He could have made it worse by saying something...we will never know though. I'm sure he was thinking AB was gonna base each shot though.
Hole 16 is a tournament killer. It absolutely wrecked James Conrad last year. At least you don't take penalty strokes.
Also Ricky Wysocki has bitter memories from hole 16 some years ago. He emptied his bag the same way as AB this year.
must have watched 'Tin Cup' on the flight over
Foot fault
@@dalereinhold640 second
@@footfaultdiscgolf 👍😂
I saw this meltdown live. I have to say, I was really surprised how AB played the hole being in the worst spot to cross. I have seen Kevin Jones and many others to lay it up when in similar position. It was just bad decision making by AB.
Kept wondering why he didn't throw a slow back hand, when you miss a shot long in regular golf,you drop down a club, throw it a little softer
New Year, new AB. After his 4th win of the season this is not gonna happen again!
Scott forgets, that AB did this to himself - he is not a victim! He would´ve had that exact "2 stroke penalty" but he himself chose otherwise: if he would´ve after the first missed try gone and laid up closer to the island, there the shot over would've been A LOT easier than from back there. That was one of harder spots to try and stick a shot in anyways, and imo he should've risk managed rather than tried to get more into lead there.. (Trust me I was in the crowd behind the island! :D) And that is the brilliance of the 16: there is no safety net, and you can choose how much risk you will have to handle! Sometimes a lot of risk costs, just like in real life. Disc golf at high level is a lot about performing on a good level while under pressure of people watching, many big cameras pointing, every shot counting, not messing up when you're in a good placement etc.. This sort of hole at that point of a course/tournament is also just one way to increase the pressure
I love it!!
Just curious. Does anyone know if someone in the AB situation could just walk up to the green and retrieve his disc(s) and go back and shoot the same one again?
Shot clock makes it rough.
The shot to the island was 280ft / 85m. Usain Bolt maybe could've :D
Is Paul McBeth his caddie?
A train wreck hole should be included in EVERY major! And on every course (IMO).
Matter of fact, I’m now going to create one on my personal course!
What kind of BS is Stokley saying?
If all players had million dollar contracts?! Idiota! IF DISC GOLF TOURNAMENTS PAID OUT ONE MILLION DOLLARS THEN THE TRAIN WRECK WOULD BE AS BIG AS WINNING THE MILLION!
A mando is a train wreck hole? Right?
No. But it could be.
I feel a person's opinion on drop zones has a correlation to their level of empathy for the professionals. A person who sees the human being first sees the logic of the drop zone and a person who sees the professional first dislikes the drop zone. Where your opinion of the topic lies depends as much on your temperament as it does on how you see the game design played.
I really felt bad for AB and did not enjoy the incident. But, I had not realised he had the option of advancing to the edge of the hazard area with a penalty, as people pointed out below. So I suppose it was his choice in the end.
You HAVE TO re-throw or lay up.
If it is an “artificial island” hole as in, it’s not an actual island but something marked off … anything outside of the marked area should be hazard and you play from where it lies with a penalty stroke.
It seems gimmicky to me to pretend something is an island when it’s not.
meltdowns have always been a part of sports and always will be....
Champions win because of their mental toughness, not skill. Both AB and Clavin have shown to crack under pressure. Especially when expectations come into play. When there are no expectation, they have spectacular rounds, when they are expected to have a great round, they choke.
As far as the landing zone, I loved the drama! More courses need to create such moments and reward good play and penalize bad. Too many courses allow you to get away with a PAR if you throw OB.
Calvin has his moments. Followed him the last 2 years on Sunday at Jonesboro, and he played great and won. He has also failed a bunch of times. Interesting to know what the difference is when he succeeds under pressure and when he doesn't.
It's a hard hit, but a skill shot like that is needed at the pro level.
I'm with Scott 100%! Drop zones all the way...
No drop zones 🎉
He just needed a good, experienced caddie to help talk him through he shot…
I'm kind of getting bored of so many players getting injured because courses stress distance over accuracy. Disc golf at the highest level should reward placement over raw power, and it should emphasize this value by doing away with what is a time saving device known as a drop zone.
i look forward to AB becoming more consistent and executing key moments
Probably top 5 arm speed, putts really well too. He will learn a lot from this. I like to watch him play!
Sooo why did Macbeth drop out??
Paul should've told him to just lay up...cut your losses
Admittedly I don’t know how far it is from the front of the OB across, because I think if it’s pretty easy to pitch up and across for a par, then I agree with you, the No drop one is a great idea
Is roughly 200 feet a pretty easy shot to be sure. Where ab was at was maybe 330ft from the pin.
@@weedmanbrandon yeah id say 200 is routine for a pro, but 330 is still not too bad, as if I know damn well id be throwing OB at least as many times as AB did
He couldn't throw with all the gangster bling weighing him down. What a clown!
Respectfully, I have to go with Scott on this one. The initial shot is exciting, yes. But the second, third, and fourth shots aren’t exciting - they only make me feel bad for him… it’s almost cringy.
Plus… this isn’t good score separation, it’s punishment for not making the island. A two stroke penalty is all that’s needed.
AB absolutely threw it.
I was thinking the same thing about AB losing discs that he would normally choose to throw on that hole. Why can't his caddy just run down there and retrieve them really quick?
Can he do it in 30 seconds?
@@raymondvorndran4306 when does the clock start?
would love to see his caddy, Paul McBeth, gophering for Barela. lmfao
Sorry Scott, but that opinion is downright whacky for any professional sport. At the highest level, there is supposed to be risk/reward and this level of heartbreak from time to time. The course design wasn’t at fault, since that throw isn’t supposed to be too difficult for a high-end pro. It’s a shame AB broke down and lost in this fashion, but suggesting what Stokely did is the definition of holding back disc golf from being taken seriously. That would only hurt the game!
Didn’t somebody take an 11 on this hole before?
There should be a drop zone with a chance at a long par save. Even if he pitches up to the end of the fairway with his 4th shot here (after going OB) he's staring down double unless he sinks the 100ft+ throw in. Having players simply pitch up with their 2nd shot is boring and doesn't make for good golf. A likely bogey from going OB and having to throw from a drop zone is penalty enough, rewards good throws, punishes bad ones, and would have made for a more interesting finish, no one wants to see the train wreck.
I feel bad for AB, he threw an incredible tournament. Except for one hole.
At the end of the day it’s sports. I know there are humans on the other side but at the end of the day, the players get paid because they are entertainment.
Tin Cup moment
The only course without a drop zone though and AB chances were good to win , y'all saying excuses and no drop zone is okay ... I would agree when the zone your throwing for is bigger and actually a island hole. This is not ... There's no water and a tiny zone to land in not even is big as circle one... There definitely should be a drop zone. This is not a true island hole and this should of not happened. I completely agree with Scott Stokey and you would think all you amateurs commenting and also the host of this video would realize that Scott knows what he's talking about here.