It's so rare to find another person who identifies as atheist, but has a fundamental appreciation for Christianity and explored it with an open mind! I really appreciate your sense of nuance.
It’s very interesting for me. I think a lot of atheists CAME from religion, and many of those from Christianity. To be entirely honest, as an atheist who grew up in the church, it’s hard for me to have much appreciation for Christianity at all. That isn’t to say there aren’t Christians I find to be wonderful people - my parents, for example, who are genuinely good people. However, overall, I’ve seen too much to have a lot of respect for it.
Emerald Atheism maybe rare in your brainwashed Christian country mate. There is a whole world out there! Pretty stupid ignorant comment. 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
As a former Christian from a past Christian metal band (Seven System), I can say that I agree with you comments. If the music is solid it will hold up. If it is not, it will be forgotten. Dont use religion as the driving force behind the music, let the music stand on its own.
As an Arkansan and Christian metal fan, I really appreciate that you gave a shout out to Living Sacrifice. I also really appreciate that you're open-minded and accepting of those Christian bands and bands with Christians who are authentic in their message, branding, and musicianship. I pretty well agree on all points with your video. It was obviously extremely well researched and informed. Thanks!
Living Sacrifice is still one of my favorite bands. I remember seeing them play in a very small club in New Hampshire and they put on a hell of a show.
As a christian I'm glad impending doom was mentioned, they easily had one of the most balanced images that a "christian" band could have. They were boldly christian in their songwriting and lifestyle, but they also were talented, sincere, didn't spare the grit and even called out BS in the Christian community when they saw it, and it was done without being judgemental. The serpent servant, deceiver, baptized in filth, and hellhole were just a few that managed to catch the gritty, less-fun side of it all. I have massive respect for bands that are sincere in whatever it is they choose to do, even if I don't agree with them.
Yep, I would add Living Sacrifice and Demon Hunter to that list. Ryan Clarke does not hold back when he sees something that needs to be called out. Case in point "Cross to Bear".
Demon Hunter is a very unapologetically Christian metal band. Yes, it's that "American Christian" flavour but their conviction is admirable, songs like Cross to Bear, Death and Undying are just brutal as hell with an aggressive delivery of a Christian message.
Learned about those bands in a videogame (impending doom, ffak, Demon hunter) and i gotta say as an ex atheist Impending doom drop the hardest stuff i ever heard and the lyrics make you rethink your belief without preaching
As a Christian, I appreciate how charitable you are to them so much. You acknowledge that there are distortions of the faith, and those do not embody true belief. That is huge man. It is so frustrating to feel misrepresented by televangelists and celebrities who care more about their reputations (or who try to have their wife killed).
Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. I can't count the times I had conversations about the guys from Tension carrying guns and pulling them on people, or even when certain straightedge bands talking about PMA start using violence against others who drink. But if only 1 out of every 10 people ask me a question with sincerity and introspection- then it's all worth it.
I second the good feelings from the way you are charitable towards faith people. Interesting that Time doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to (and/or came from) his full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife. Really seems like he wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer. Not to say that people aren't out there trying to look like christian politicians while also being murderers but just pointing out that the two are not compatible. "Christians" who intentionally screw people over (or hire hitmen) are probably always not Christians at all. They are atheists (sorry) who are duping people.
i think demon hunters new stuff has more depth. for sure it isnt fast and heavy like the first album, but still love it. i especially love how they and living sacrifice have stuck to their beliefs instead of giving in to societal pressure.
They're not really hardcore anymore but Emery will always be my favorite band. Underoath and Norma Jean are still awesome to this day. Thanks for the insightful and open-minded video.
I'm a Christian, I loved this video. You are right on. Just remember that humans are the ones who make those mistakes, not the God they try to worship. Whether you believe in God or not, we should love everyone with nothing expected in return.
Gotta say, as a Christian, I deeply appreciate the approach you took in this video. You were very respectful toward all these bands that I have loved, and you were also fair in your judgment of the preachy arrogance some of the bands adopted toward the end of that era. It’s good to hear see that movement acknowledged in this way, and calling attention to the unhealthy idea of “Christian music” versus “secular music.” Music doesn’t belong to anyone-we’re all sharing in something that is human, regardless of our beliefs.
I think you are so right when you mentioned that a label as a “Christian band” is so hard to be sustainable. Even if you’re a Christian we all mess up, and when all that scrutiny is put on you because it’s part of your brand, it’s so unhealthy. I grew up in the church, and I thought this was a cool video. Probably some things I’d say differently, but most of it is very well said. It’s such a touchy subject and really is just a label.
Brent Jenner The debate isn’t about the reality of God, rather labels associated with Christianity in the music scene. I said I grew up in a church, aka as a kid, when you go where your parents take you. I’ve got a brain. One that can see that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and respects alternate views of the world. And one that can understand your anger since you’ve been dealt such a shitty situation. Cancer sucks, and I sincerely wish you the best with wherever you are in the process. I know I’m just a rando on the internet, but kick it’s ass if you haven’t already! Stay strong dude!
Shout out to Disciple!! The band that got me into this genre as a young Christian Kid. Just recently my band opened up for them, they are still around and as relevant as ever. They’ve always been preachy but I think people have respected them for not changing their message literally since the 90s. And they’re just a killer band
I grew up in the Christian metal scene and when I described the difference between a Christian hardcore pit and a regular hardcore pit I'd say they are just as brutal except in the Christian pit if you get knocked over someone always stops to pick you back up. Living Sacrifice, Zao, Project 86, Mercury Switch, As I lay Dying. So many good bands from that era.
Fun story, back in high school one of my friends was wearing an underoath tour shirt, I say to him, "you know that's a Christian band right?" he kicked me on my leg and yelled "don't ever say something like that again!" I still laugh about that to this day
I grew up in the church scene and I think the main draw for us wasn't the lyrics or the message of the music. It was a way we could convince our parents to listen to rock music. "But mom, look it's a song about Jesus." It was a gateway to a genre that was otherwise forbidden. I wonder where bands like mewithoutYou/Thrice/Brand New fall in this discussion. Are they on the Underoath/NJ side of the equation or the Reliant K side? Great video man. Keep it up.
A lot of kids I grew up with were evangelicals, and their parents would only let them listen to Christian bands, and that was how I got into a lot of those bands. I could have cared less about the message, I loved the guitar work, it was heavy, it made you wanna mosh, it was totally cool with me. But my friends’ zealot parents drove me insane
I know Dustin Kensrue from thrice is super religious, but I never really got that feeling from Brand New (even with a song called Jesus Christ) and especially not from mewithoutyou. Maybe Ive just missed it or don’t know any better. I’m curious to learn more about that though.
Yea Thrice isn't really Christian band but Dustin is very religious, he has a solo basically praise and worship sutff. Mewithoutyou was for a long time but they started looking into other religions and and trying out influences form several other religions. He is super awesome and humble and after shows you can talk to him and ive had several discusions with him bout all kinds of things. But haven't in a while so don't know where he stands. and Brandnew that who album was made after the girl from Eisley and him fell out and she went on to marry the guitarist from New Found Glory. It wasnt so much religious it was him in a bad place and mad at her and questioning everything.
Same. I remember putting on Zao and my mom started freaking out. "If you can't understand what he's saying then you don't know if he's a christian!" So I show her the cd sleeve. "Lies!" she screams. "It sounds like satan!" To this day she still wont accept that metal can be christian. lol.
Loved this video Finn. I've thought the same thing as you when listening to Christian Hardcore bands regarding lyrics. It's one of the things that kept me listening to them because they weren't taking the "life is hard so I'm going to bitch about it" approach but rather a "life is hard so I'm going to power through it and be a better person because of it" approach. That really resonated with me. I loved the positivity versus wallowing in sadness.
I am a pastor in Payson, Arizona, and I was super hard-core into the metal scene at probably about the same time that you were. I actually got into Christian metal in 1999 with Skillet. My first exposure to Christian metal was there album “invincible.“ I did not know that such a thing as good Christian music existed until I heard their music. It wasn’t long before I got into thousand foot Krutch, Rod, Laver, embodiment, living sacrifice, spoken, and many other Christian metal artists. I remember when Underoath got really big, and embraced a more emo sound to their music. What I appreciate about your video, is, it gives me an outsider perspective as to how that genre of music affected everyone else. I also appreciate that you try to stay in the center with your review, and show respectful sides to this genre, instead of slamming everybody. Thank you. I appreciate it. :-)
I was a Christian for 20 years, a youth pastor for 10 years, and a pastor for 4 years. I didn't even know what hardcore music was until I heard the aforementioned Tooth & Nail bands. It opened me up to a whole new world. Right before Underoath released The Changing of Times, right at the end of their black metal days, a buddy of mine and I paid them $400 to come play a show in Shreveport, Louisiana. There was no scene here so most of the kids who showed up were expecting a sound like Third Day or maybe a little harder sounding. We made it a free show so many youth group kids came and listened to some black metal and didn't know what to think. Looking back, I bet the experience was awkward for the guys in Underoath but my friends and I were glad to be able to see them live before they hit it big. I am no longer a Christian but still appreciate this music which is still a big part of my life. Thank you for posting this.
Really appreciate the emphasis on openness, reflection, and change. P.O.D. was my first ever "favorite band" as a kid and Underoath is easily my favorite metalcore band. Despite being agnostic, I've always found the genre very cathartic and important to my own personal growth. Cheers, dude.
@@alexnicastro9255 Southwest Ohio was a breeding ground for metalcore in this era. Sucks that it's completely deteriorated now. It was truly up there with Socal and Florida with pumping out bands and dope shows.
Alex Nicastro saw as i lay dying at the attic once. Went to see RED almost every time they played there too. The scream the prayer stuff was cool too with the two stage setups
Underøath are still one of my favorite bands of all time. Since I've left the faith since first finding them, the newest album is not only fantasy, but incredibly relatable for me.
So I first discovered the Christian Metal scene back in 2011/12 after I started going to church again and rededicated my life to Christ. I was honestly blown away by how big it was and how much passion was involved with these bands. It’s something I honestly miss with bands nowadays. Unfortunately, a lot of the big bands in the scene either called it quits or ended abandoning the faith altogether. It’s a shame as I’ve always had such a huge love for the Christian Metal community. I even started a small group at my church for people who liked the same music as I do (which were only like 4 people in the whole church but it’s still pretty dope).
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but GOD DAMN I loved me some TnN bands in the 90's....Focal Point, Zao, Strongarm, Blindside, Unashamed, etc.
As a guy who came of age in the church, in the 90’s, discovering T&N, and then as an adult moving away from my roots, thanks for this video. Great summary. A lot of us are like that: grew up churchy, moved away, but still enjoy the positive or philosophic lyrics and just plain musical genius of many of these bands. It’s been amazing as a father to be able to turn my kids toward actually good music with a positive message, when that option really didn’t exist growing up. What’s so fucking cool today is seeing teens at my son’s HS “discovering” some of these bands, like it’s some cool new thing - and not giving a shit what religion the band identifies as.
"I'm still an atheist, but I have learned a lot from Christianity." Amen brother, it's refreshing to hear someone with such an open mind. Rock on. Thanks for the solid content.
I remember growing up in the church and also growing up in the punk/hardcore scene as a teenager. Being a christian was an absolute battle to hold onto my beliefs while still enjoying the music and lifestyle. They both felt right to me; speaking out against the ills of the world in a way that speaks in the angry and rough manner that I felt in my heart, but still holding strong to my convictions. When I first started looking into Christian Metal there were a LOT of Hair Metal horse crap that really turned me off to the idea. Then, one of my church friends told me about Project 86. While their sound was a bit more mainstream than what I was looking for, it still gave me hope that there was more out there, I just had to look for it. So, I did. I found stuff like Underoath, Seventh Angel, Mortification, Crashdog, you know... Wow... I suddenly didn't feel like I was being ripped in half anymore. I felt like I could be a Christian and Punk/Hardcore at the same time. I felt... complete. If nothing, the christian-core movement strengthened me as a person, but I also noticed that metal and punk started to take on more of a positive tone from thereon. Even if it wasn't a christian band, I was noticing that bands were starting to take on more empowering and self-affirming lyrics and tones. So, I think that christian-core kinda opened people's eyes to the need for a bit more positivity in the genre, whether they be christian bands or not.
Zao strictly toured on churches for a long time, but the band kept getting shit for the style of their music being "demonic." It's easy to see why they got frustrated.
Demon Hunter got it worse for having the word Demon in their name, I remember just laughing at the ignorant religious zealots spewing hate on great bands just because they chose to dislike the music
I remember the time I was in a local Christian bookstore and asked the owner if she had any Tourniquet albums. She looked left, looked right, and pulled three different Tourniquet CDs out and just gave them to me. Apparently some woman had yelled at her the week prior about the evilness of the band. It was one of the best/saddest days I have had in regards to music and the Church.
If churches practiced what they preached, the christian metal scene would probably rival most just from churches being willing to be venues for them. They only have theirselves to blame for so many of them turning away from Christianity.
Just a shout out to Demon Hunter. Besides the great mixture of metalcore and alternative metal, their vocalist Ryan Clark did a packaging and design for many bands inside/outside the scene. Thanks for the video Finn!
Yeah actually know a guy who grew up in like rural Iowa and Demon Hunter was huuuuuuge for him, like the only heavy music he was able to get his hands onto and relate to and they opened up the scene to him. Good stuff
And let's not forget Training For Utopia pre Demon Hunter... I spotted the 'Two Hands' video... Plastic Soul Impalement is still one of my favourite albums all these years later, and I'm not a Christian but the purity (and intensity) of their delivery hit home so much.
Yep such a great band, I got saved in '98 and it was extremely hard for me to find good heavy music that I liked in the christian scene; There weren't many bands to listen to, when there were thousands of bands in the secular scene. Extol and a few other bands definitely made the transition a bit easier for me personal. But yea the selection was very slim, just the same as now.
I don’t understand why bands like Unashamed and Overcome never get the respect they deserve even in the spirit filled hardcore scene they seem to go unnoticed
My favorite Christian band has been and always shall be The Chariot. No band has ever had more energy or stage presence than them. They could even take on Dillinger for most chaotic shows.
My first introduction to Josh Scogin was at PurpleDoor festival in 2004(?) with NJ. I believe the next year he was there with the Chariot and that show was crazy. Also the festival where I discovered Still Remains on a tiny side stage.
Oh man, Norma Jean brings me back. One of my old bands used to jam Memphis Will be Laid to Waste before every show. In fact, we were told that they had recorded their entire album as a complete ensemble in one take so we recorded out first album the same way. It's was actually a pretty cool experience. I don't recommend it for everyone, but it really forces you to focus on your musicianship which I think brings an interesting dynamic to the record.
What a time that was! It seemed like most of all the biggest bands were Christian. Not only that, there weren't many bands that were openly atheist or against Christianity (except in the death metal scene). I'm not a religious person (quite the opposite), but some of the Christian bands from that era are still some of my favourites and made some amazing tunes!
I cut my teeth on Spirit Filled Hardcore in the mid-late 90's. My dad was a preacher in a small Illinois farm town but we had a lady from our church who went west and ended up working for T&N Records. She came back to visit occasionally and was basically my connection to the outside world musically. Being a PK I had it rough in that little town and always felt very isolated, so when she turned my on to Unashamed, Focal Point, Living Sacrifice (still my favorite band), Embodyment, Zao...my whole life changed. The music these bands created became like the friends I never had. I would occasionally drive far away to get a chance to see them and went to Cornerstone every year I could. Were it not for that music I don't know what I would be. I love most of the bands that came later, but I was in a regional touring Christian band from 2008-2012 that played with a number of bigger bands and I was not surprised when things began to implode. We could smell the blood in the water and frankly what happened probably needed to. But those early days man...were spiritual for me. Thank you so much for this video Finn. xSFHCx
i was never in a touring band but if you went to and/or played cornerstone and other shows in illinois in the past 20ish years there's a good chance we've crossed paths. what was your band called? have you been to audiofeed?
Absolutely loved this video man, I know I'm a year late but as a christian, hearing you say you're an atheist, but a Christian ally, gives me mad respect for you. The bands have been listening to a whole lot recently have been fit for a king, sleeping giant, saving grace, August burns red, and demon hunter.
I grew up in the christian punk/hardcore scene, played in many bands all along the spectrum and I've gotta say this video hits the nail on the head. I think the last part about people kinda "growing up out of their faith" is accurate. People change their perspectives and opinions as they get older sometimes, so it's kind of a natural occurance when it happens. Great video, keep up the good work. PS. this video made me remember a lot of the stuff i grew up listening to. Living Sacrifice, ZAO, EXTOL... basically the entire Tooth and Nail/Facedown catalog. My band's first show was with Embodyment back in 2000. Also if you haven't already- check out these Facedown bands: HANDS (no longer active but super amazing), EVERYTHING IN SLOW MOTION (Singer from HANDS formed this band), My Epic is also really great! Peace.
Don’t ever bring up “church camp shower” again. U know what happened at church camp showers. Horrible horrible and hardly any arrests were made. This sickos man!!!
I'm late to the party, but I really appreciated this video. I'm a Christian. I got I to Christian hardcore in the mid 90s with early Tooth and Nail bands and feel the same way you did about them having something to say. I also feel the same way you did about some of the more "bash them over the head with a Bible" bands of the 20teens as being fake and not really needed with the way they went about things. Its really refreshing to listen to a non Christian talk about what was going on with the Christian scene and being open to the bands and being able to take something away even if they didn't agree with the beliefs.
You're right--there was this weird period from like 2003-2008 where nearly every band was some form of Christian-core. I grew up in a holler in the Appalachia region of Kentucky and Christian 'core' was huge. There were a ton of local, regional, and touring bands that made their way to our neck of the woods. My personal favorite, Beloved, played one night in a double-wide trailer. There were many others such as the Showdown, Chasing Victory, and other Mono vs Stereo bands (I think this was an imprint on Solidstate, I may be wrong). And then there were bands like Thrice... still to this day my favorite band despite the underlying Christian lyrical themes. Excellent video as always.
Really enjoyed that! Thought it came across really balanced and the personal side was quite touching. I've never been religeous or had any supernatural beliefs, but I totally get what you are saying about the lyrics having a meaning and personal connection. As much as I love the usual metal tropes, as I get older lyrics about self improvement and being a better person, resonate far more than lyrics about serial killers etc
I grew up in the church fell out and came back. I’ve heard not good things about tooth and nail and I think there is something going on behind the scenes in Christian labels. Also I think Christians viewed these bands as preachers or leaders in the church (unfairly). Leaders preachers And deacons are held to a high standard and I think the pressure was to much. So when they struggled publicly with sin the Christian community rebuked them rather than loved them.
I've known people in bands and people who know people in bands that were on tooth and nail. You are correct, they screwed quite a few people making their way to the top of the Christian label ladder.
I never paid attention to people in my church who said that metal is inherently satanic when I was a kid. As an adult, I've grown in my faith and I'm really happy that there are christian metal bands who's music teaches lessons that no other genre can. Bands like Wolves at The Gate and Rival Choir do a fantastic job at teaching about the brokenness of humanity and the effects of sin. That's why they're two of my favorite bands.
One honorable mention was the band The Crimson Armada. Which everyone thought was a Christian band because they had spiritual lyrics but the vocalist came out and said it wasn't about Christianity at all. And that they had quoted the Qur'an. They completely fell off the planet after that.
For Today was very preachy, but definitely not bigots or fakes. They took their faith seriously and we're just following the command of spreading the gospel to others. And many people were touched by it, and that's why I'm a Christian today.
I'm a protestant Christian and have been for 12 years. I also grew up with a ton of these bands so I can probably give you some insider baseball here: When you have any kind of worldview that is so encompassing like Christianity calls for, there is a sort of "maintenance" aspect to that worldview. This isn't exclusive to religion, it's the same with sports, veganism, politics, etc. Soccer players hang out with other soccer players, vegans hang out with other vegans, democrats with other democrats, etc. The problem with a lot of these Christians in bands is that they had to spend 99% of their year on the road for their band to succeed with people who are generally hostile to religion. Think of a democrat spending 5 years working for a republican campaign, a vegan spending 10 years employed by McDonald's, etc. Their minds will almost inevitably change. Some of these guys are still Christians, but because they've spent so much time away from a HEALTHY church that doesn't preach "Jesus makes you rich after you make me rich" bullcrap, they will adapt a more secular view of Christianity that is essentially not Christianity. For fans like me, it took some time to realize that the success of these bands did not make them any more Christian. As a matter of fact, it made them the opposite. As Christians like me grew up we stopped handing over money and attention to these fake bands and so Tooth & Nail and even SolidState had to start signing bands that didn't even make an effort to profess Christianity. It was a recipe for disaster. God worked through it for sure, but that testifies to His mercy that He would "draw straight lines with crooked sticks" The Christian music industry is also incredibly disgusting. Inside and outside the church. Inside the church we widely accept and promote songs that are incredibly vapid, don't even mention Jesus, and would better fit a Taylor Swift record (see Good Good Father by HouseFires) Outside the church it's just trying to be deceptively unChristian while being Christian? People feel cheated haha. See what Lecrae is doing. Listen to Aaron Gillespie's podcast episode on BadChristian. It explains why he was so disillusioned with the Christian music industry. Dude went from making a worship album to saying religion should be nowhere near music. Anyway, love your videos! Hope my comment added something to you.
Thanks man its really refreshing to see that. And I wanna be another "as a Christian myself, here's my story" but I started questioning my faith for sure cause I well grew up listening to all sorts of punk and metal while being raised Catholic. Thankfully despiye being gullible & stupid looking back, I was able to grow up open minded and attempt to be more comprehensive; and it honestly scary hearing the idea that some bands are not who they say they are much having the uncertainty cause it can make you go crazy. To this day I'll still go to church (in choir), go to a charismatic conference yet listen to ABR, Sleeping Giant, Bad Religion, PWD, Casting Crowns, and thats an odd list and wide spectrum. And thanks to Punk Rock MBA. I love your content cause it reminds there are times I can learn things outside the church settings and exposes to more great bands whether I like em or not. Hopefully I can keep committed to my faith and be have clairvoyance. Have a good one bros.
You're absolutely right. As a Christian who grew up listening to a lot of the Christian punk and hardcore bands, I've been saddened to see how many have fallen away or given up their faith or have watered down the Gospel until it's too vague to be of any substance. Many of them just got burned out or lacked a solid group of believers to fellowship with. Thankfully there are a few (like Craig's Brother) that are still going and seem to have that same fire, which is a blessing!
Woah, Andres is on here? That's awesome, thanks for commenting. Your time with Mouth of the South & working on The Saving was so cool to watch from the outside.
I personally relate more with what Finn alluded to in the video. As someone that was raised Christian with a hyper conservative father in the heart of BFN Tennessee, I loved finding new Christian bands. It was the only thing that made me feel any kind of welcome in the church at all. A band like For Today really felt like such a positive thing, almost like church for those who didn’t feel all that welcome in the actual church. It wasn’t until 4-5 years ago in my early 20’s where I really started questioning the beliefs and indoctrination that I was raised with. It was then that I asked myself the question, “do I really believe this stuff or is the idea of faith just what makes me feel comfortable because I was raised with it, and it’s all I’ve known?” The answer became pretty obvious at that point, as I’m a very logically thinking person, and it just never made much sense to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these bands had similar revelations that caused them to stop identifying as Christians.
average joe why to bad? He’s out, they have a new album and it’s damn good. Couldn’t get a ticket to their reunion shows either. Think they’re just fine.
@@btgkg9639 Tim Lambesis is a hack and a horrible person to represent christianity. Forgiveness doesn't mean outright support and including them in the community anymore.
@@IHateMyAccountName Well they have been accepted back in the community and they’re doing just fine. Seems a lot of people have forgiven him, so I’m pretty sure Jesus forgave him too. Doesn’t seem very Christian to act like that.
I am not a christian but ive always felt a deep appreciation for those churches around the country that allowed our band to tour and have amazing shows in a great atmosphere. They really stepped up and gave kids an outlet/weekly activity to stay out of trouble and find something they identified with. That 2004-2007 scene was golden.
I loved MxPx as a teenager, and even though I've always identified as a Christian, I didn't know they were a "Christian band," I just liked their music. I met them at a Warped Tour, and they were the nicest dudes, still have an autographed t-shirt!
This video was rad. I think it would be cool if you did a video on the Christian punk bands of the late 90s and early 2000s. Bands like Headnoise, Officer Negative, and you could even go into a little ska like the O.C. Supertones. Good video dude
I played in a metal band Called this or the apocalypse and had the chance to tour with many of these bands. Thanks for this video. It was awesome to reminisce a major part of my life.
I played in a Christian metal band and y’all was who I wanted to tour with the most and I may or may not have used haunt what’s left as a guidebook when I was writing for them.
I still listen to Christian metalcore "religiously" like its seriously my shit. And wolves at the gates newest album is extremely good as are the last 2 sleeping giant albums. To speak of wolves as this really cool spoken word song called rearview memories
This video is amazing. I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, was only allowed to listen to Christian music as a kid and so I found stuff I liked. I’ve shared the stage with Extol, Demon Hunter, been in bands with members that were in Zao and Embodyment. I vividly remember hanging out with Tim from As I Lay Dying in parking lots after shows. I would just move the dates a little earlier, like the Christian hardcore scene really started slapping I’d say more 2000 rather than 2005. But I was in the scene at the time so my estimates might be a bit earlier. Love this video though, gonna be sharing it with some old friends for sure.
I think he's right about the 2005 era. Christian bands started showing up in videogames left right and centre. Guitar Hero and MX vs ATV (Pillar) is where I learned about a few of them personally. But I'm also in the boat where Demon Hunter , P.O.D., Emery and Thousand Foot Krutch were already cool (though I was late to Living Sacrifice and Overcome - was a bit young, Canadian and tech impaired I think when they were big). Realize some of my notes here aren't hardcore, but just trying to let you know I was into the Christian scene more generally.
That shit was wild. So many bands just caught it because they got signed to a specific label and didn't use any "unacceptable" language in their lyrics. The Agony Scene being called a christian band was absolutely nuts lmao.
Also,one of the most powerful things I ever heard a Christian band say about beliefs at a show was Maylene and the Sons of Disaster. They were playing this 3 day fest that a local Christian radio station put on (RIP M88) and Dallas stood up and basically said "the truth is out there but the most important thing is if you're going to believe in something, make sure that you don't just believe because your friends do or some band up here told you to."
As a kid that grew up in a Christian house, finding these bands was my introduction to heavy music. And I identified with it for the same reasons you mentioned, it challenged my mindset, I saw myself in the lyrics. I’m not religious any more, but dancing barefoot at a Sleeping Giant show in 2007 was still a spiritual experience in my eyes.
ZAO was probably the first truly heavy band that I would listen to front to back, way before I knew they were xtian or anything. Loved seeing them get a shout out, I owe them a lot. Great video
You'd actually be surprised at how many people in Christian bands are phonies. I got a friend in one of Solid State Records's biggest bands and he's told me stories about how the majority of bands after the Christ core explosion didn't believe what they claimed and were only doing it for the fame, which as a Christian really pisses me off that someone would claim what I believe just for the money. I'm just glad we're getting back to a point where bands are only gonna call themselves Christians if they actually believe what they're preaching
The Crimson Armada was one of the worst about this. They played a bunch of Christian festivals and tours, featured only Christian singers on their records and then came out with a shitty drunken party music video and tried to say they were never a Christian band.
This was true in the late 90s-early 00s as well, there were always accusations, particularly toward Tooth & Nail/Solid State bands but others as well, that they didn't take Christianity seriously and only signed because there was a bigger built-in fanbase in the "Christian music" scene. It's reflective of the long-standing conflict in Christian music about whether bands should primarily be a vehicle for evangelizing, or whether it was ok to be Christians using music to talk about other things in their life.
So true. I used to work for Tooth and Nail/Solid State. I noticed a lot of the bands I met were pretty awful people and I casually asked a coworker: so is tooth and nail really a christian label? (Ftr, I didn't care either way but a lot of things made me curious). He didn't answer me for a long time then finally said "Tooth and Nail markets to a Christian audience." And that perfectly sums them up.
@@soulexchangemusic Solid State is the metal/hardcore imprint for Tooth & Nail, literally every christian band passed through there at one point... Now... there biggest are probably Demon Hunter, The Devil Wears Prada, Norma Jean, Oh, Sleeper, Fit for a King But pretty much every major player in the chrisitian scene was on the label at one point: Zao, Underoath, August Burns Red, The Agony Scene, Emery, Few left Standing, Living Sacrifice, Haste the Day, Devil Wears Prada, HE is Legend, Extol, Figure Four, No Innocent Victim, Training for Utopia, Stretch Armstrong
I grew up Mormon which was weird because I felt ostracized by both the "Christian" crowd AND the secular crowd. I ultimately ended up feeling more at home in the secular punk and hardcore scene because it just felt more normal to me (Mormons culture is very different from evangelical christian culture). That being said there were still bands that I loved that were Christian. MxPx - Life in General was one of the first punk cds i ever bought when i was in middle school. Now that I have left the church and am in my mid 30's, I look back on my experiences with the Mormon Church in the same way you look at the christian scene. It helped shape who I am and I am glad I had those experiences. Another great video man. Always excited to see what you come up with.
@@ThePunkRockMBA Yeah, definitely. I still have a lot of friends and pretty much all my family that are "active" in the church. Great people, but I have a lot of problems with the organization and belief system.
@@danielhance1467 Nice man! I still remember looking through the pages of my Transworld Skateboarding magazine and seeing that ad and then they had a review of the album as well. I was at the record store a couple days later with that CD in my hand. They were also my first show with Home Grown, Jeffries Fan Club, Kara's Flowers (Maroon 5), and The Ataris opening.
I grew up Catholic, but friends go me involved in the Protestant churches around age 18. Basically, Tooth and Nail records defined my life at that time in 1995. I have seen those friends of mine try different segments of the faith or leave the faith entirely(including myself a couple times). You did a good job at being impartial here(which seems rare these days). Yes, some of those bands were very good from a musical standpoint, and good people, too. I remember meeting POD at a music festival back in 1998 before they went on MTV and became big shots. Another band to mention was 6 Feet Deep(1994 -1996).Within the scene itself, I knew a lot of people, between Philadelphia and Illinois. At most suburban churches, though, there were a lot of judgmental pricks with a double standard that didn't think the bands were "Christian enough". That ended up pushing me away from the church in the early 2000s. In 2005, I was rocking out to "Jesus of Suburbia" by Green Day LOL. I think judgmental people that had a good place within their little church community were what really killed the scene.
I’m really impressed by the way you spoke about this with a lot of respect. It’s refreshing to see someone respecting other people’s beliefs and opinions even if they disagree with them. I think we should all aspire to be as open-minded and understanding as you are. 🙂
I grew up in the church and went to worship every week because my parents made me. I hated the music that was played and preferred rock/metal. Even though I really liked A7X, MCR, Atreyu, and Bullet for my Valentine, they weren’t “Christian” and I battled internally between listening to what I wanted and trying to be a “Good Christian.” Christian metal was a way to listen to music I liked, and not feel guilty about it.
I’m a Christian myself raised a Christian my whole life but Christianity itself is an umbrella for so many different believes. The way I was raised was to respect God first and follow his commandments, the church doesn’t save Jesus does, I was also taught that we’re all sinners and only God can forgive us when we come to him, not the church, I love metal, all the way to slamming brutal, it’s music, I have respect for a lot of bands that I chose not to listen to because I feel their lyrics are against my personal values with God. But I don’t feel guilty for the one that I do listen to. Our relationship with God as Christians is a personal one and I think that should always be the case, an organization for the most part only serves to ruin that personal relationship in a lot of cases. Once you really meet god and it’s not just a forced belief for the sake of believing then nothing will break that bond, not music and not the church.
You should listen to whatever you like without worrying what others think. Everyone has valid points and theres no reason not to apply them to your opinions
Awesome video! Chad from Strongarm shared it on facebook today and complimented you on your accuracy! ha. While doing Eulogy, John and I were discussing bands we had the opportunity to release and one of them was Christian at the time. We ultimately decided that our personal beliefs were not relevant to the audience and if we dig the music and the people making the music, we should work together. I was super into a few Christian bands at the time too like Zao and Stretch Armstrong which helped make the decision.
The sub genre is still alive, it’s just more rare to find artists as good as they were in the 2000’s. I just found a solo artist, A Secret Ending, who is probably in my top 3 bands now. Fucking beautiful deathcore.
bow_to_fitzy I suggest checking out some of their earlier stuff like Snuff the Punk. I met them early on in a church show lol. The name itself, Payable on Death, is a Christian reference. I think when bands get that big, though, they of course softened the message and focus on being more marketable to a broader audience
I'm right there with you my man. At first I honestly thought that P.O.D was actually a Political Band at first. Because the reason how I found out about P.O.D was honestly because of Rage Against The Machines. And I kid you not when I found out they were Christian's, I looked at there Lyrics differently in a diffrent perspective. Honest truth 🙌🙌
As a Christian myself, I'm glad to hear that although you did attend some bible studies with a friend, you stayed with your beliefs and true to yourself. I have nothing but respect towards you. Christianity isn't the answer for everyone and unfortunately there are a lot of bad parts in the Christian community. I also love that you always kept an open mind to these bands. As you said, you don't need to be a christian to appreciate the themes in the music.
Because half of the people in the Chri9 community is not really Christians. If they were. They would know that God want us to love our neighbors. As Christians we need to keep am open mind too 🤗
@@radzo1675 nice to know that I made history for you haha. But yeah. It isn't for everyone. Plus it's not always easy finding "Christians" that act in the way Christ would want. Just look at all the Christians that yell at the lgbt community about how they're abominations that will burn in hell. That is not something Christ would preach and it's contrary to actual Christian values. Because of hatred like that being spewed is why even though I'm a Christian, I don't actually go to church. I practice my faith in my own way.
@@dragonsfire295 I couldn't have said it any better. I have a Christian friend who is very open about his faith. However, like you, he does not attend Church and the other Christians we worked with used to talk shit about him all the time to me just because of that fact. Even people that attend services practice in their own way without realizing it.
@@dragonsfire295 I'm curious to know what Christ would actually preach and what Christian values are? Didn't Jesus talk about Hell more than anyone else in the whole Bible? And what does a Christian do with verses that talk about the church?
My favorite hard band from the last 15 years must be Demon Hunter. Perhaps they don’t belong on the list because they may not be considered a hard-core or punk band but I consider them one of the most important bands in Christian hard rock for the last 15 years. Thanks for this video and for your respect and sensitive approach.
I remember the first show I ever went to was a Christian show. I wasn't Christian, though, being raised in the South, I was surrounded by Christians, and somehow, the promoters for these tiny, hole in the wall venues were able to bring in some pretty prominent Christian hardcore bands. This first show was was opened by a band I didn't know at the time, but ended up becoming friends with members of the band years later, the second band was touring with the headliner, and I don't remember who they were either, and the third band, the headliner, was For Today. I had heard of For Today from my friend's older sister and her boyfriend, and they were the ones who took us to this show. My friend and I, both guitarists, stood in front of the lead guitarist for For Today for their entire set, and he talked with us between songs, answering our endless questions about his pedals and amp, and I was really taken aback by how nice he was the whole night. What absolutely blew me away though, was when he began playing the intro to "Agape." Growing up, I was into Sabbath, Zeppelin, The Ramones, and The Misfits, so when this dude broke out this sweeping arpeggio intro, I was amazed. I'd never seen anything like it, at that point in my life. Over the years, I saw For Today a handful of times after that, and, sadly, each time it felt more and more like their band was a vehicle to recruit Christians, which I was adverse to, so I stopped being a fan. On the topic of how this genre has died down, I don't have any factual reasoning, but I have a guess based upon my own observations of the guys I grew up attending shows and playing music with. Everyone seemed to get older and slowly stopped being religious. I had friends who formed a band in high school, who played very Christian metalcore music, and I know as time went on they had multiple members leave due to ideological differences, either because the band was not Christian enough, or because the band was too Christian, and that seems to be the course for most of the bands I knew growing up. The local headlining bands from my youth all broke up around the time they hit my current age(mid-20s) because they stopped believing in Christianity, or because the members who were still Christian wanted to be more Christian with their music, and the members who had become agnostic/atheist didn't want to keep preaching about a religion they no longer believed.
I've been a devout Christian my whole life and am so happy Christian metalcore bands existed. I've always been a huge metal fan but felt somewhat conflicted when it came to my faith and taste in music, a lot of these bands showed me that these don't have to be mutually exclusive from eachother and that I can absolutely enjoy both. It's what kept my inspiration up and helped me continue to pursue music as a passion.
I've love a what killed Christian punk rock scene video. When I was younger I was all into that scene. I still love me some old skool Hawk Nelson and Relient K.
The second RK left GoTee records, things started dying for them. Anberlin did pretty well, but they just couldn’t reach the success that Switchfoot or Underoath were able to. A lot of the guys in the really good bands ended up having families and leaving the music lifestyle behind.
It isn’t Christianity that’s killing itself, Colin, it’s fake Christians who outwardly profess to be Christians, but secretly are pieces of shit. I believe Jesus called them “hypocrites.” He also said He wanted nothing to do with them. #Corrected
Seeing so many positive comments here and really haven't stumbled on any ignorant comments here! Makes me happy :) I can't wait to give this a good watch when i have a bit more time
@@raremetalmusic1312 first off, naice. Excellent and criminally underrated band. Coolest album cover of all time and one of my very favorite bands. When i tried doing vocals for my own music, matt jensen was the vocalist i learned from and tried to copy and i later realized that a lot of guitar riffs id write ended up sounding like itmol riffs because i listened to them so much. So bummed i never got to see them live. Second, username checks out.
I got into “core ”music when I converted to christianity. I can say becoming a Christian is what took me from listening to normie metal like SOAD and Slipknot to listening to With Blood Comes Cleansing and Impending Doom, some of the heaviest bands in my book. I’m no longer Christian but the faith and these bands taught me a lot. Mostly “Don’t be a dick.” Great video Finn!
I remember Speaking with Dan from Zao two years ago after a show and I asked him why they stopped talking about Jesus or calling themselves Christian hardcore. He said the church the band attended since they were kids turned on them and called them satanic and that they weren’t true Christian people because of their music style. I’m anti religion but I’ll never not love ZAO. Just sucks they got done like that.
hell yea dude - who are a couple of your top favorite tooth and nail bands you only know because of tooth and nail.... mine would be slick shoes, strongarm ....
When I was a teenager (mid 2000s) friends and I went to Sonshine Christian music festival in Minnesota like 3 or 4 years in a row specifically because they had a "heavy metal stage" in a cleared out hockey arena. Saw several of the bands you mentioned and had some of my best concert memories there, lots of great bands, great sound and awesome crowd energy, huge mosh pits and circle pits, throw-down pits. Everyone was just happy to be there and fully into the heavy music. ANYWAY, It was really cool and interesting and nostalgic listening to this video👍
That's wild brother. I got to see Seventh Star, TOURNIQUET(!!!), and some others on that exact stage. Sonshine was great overall. Hung out with old school Disciple for a minute, saw Project 86 put on one of the best performances I've been too, saw Flyleaf before they hit the radio. Man, those were good times...
Great job man. This video gave me chills. Enjoyed it a lot and grateful for you being fair. Cool to hear about your experience with early Tooth and Nail.
Living sacrafice, underoath , cheers ! I love this shit and am whole heatedly an atheist! I don't agree with the message , but the passion is there. Many cornerstone shows under my belt I must say they are undeniably powerful.
You are definitely one of the best people in the scene in YT as far as doing reviews and explaining how and why the alt scenes have changed and evolved over time. Thanks for your awesome content!
As someone who has worked in Christian rock for the past 8 years, during the downward spiral, this is really on point. Mad respect for your perspective and your thoughtful handling of the progression of the genre. :-)
Great video man! I’ve been a fan of your videos for a while. I grew up in this scene, or better one parallel to it Christian Pop Punk. Got to tour with a few of these bands, I still tell the story of getting to play shows with Strongarm and how great those guys were and playing Nintendo with MXPX haha. Today I’m a 41 year old worship pastor at a church in my hometown with full sleeve tattoos and a continuing punk rock mentality. It makes people in my church laugh when I get to show them old tour van photos. Anyway, I loved the honesty in this video and hearing not only about the bands but your experience with them and faith. I love your open mindedness and wish more people had it on “both sides”. Keep up the good work. And yeah it would be cool to see you talk about Christian punk bands from that time (Loved some silliness of Ghoti Hook).
Tim Lambeisis's fall was the thing that woke me up a bit -- that dude lived the stereotype of the christian who was raised in the church, studied the faith deeply, found problems in it that caused him to doubt, and ended up losing that faith. I look back on albums like The powerless rise and Awakened and some of the lyrical content in that music and can totally see the guy doubting in his religion and starting to get desperate. In that sense as soon as it came out that he had renounced christianity tried to have his wife killed It was more clear what this dude had been going through. just one of the biggest things that highlighted what happened to the christian scene in my view.
Interesting that his doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to a full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife. Dude wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer.
I was able to see the band backstage a week before he was arrested. It was very obvious from their Green room and the two women on his arms they were not a Christian band at that point. It was actually heartbreaking as I grew up listening to them.
Preface: I am a reformed Christian who believes completely in the Word of God. I absolutely loved your take on this topic! Informative and personal. You had me locked in...until the end. I agree with the fact that the fake/lying Christians needed to be exposed as wolves in sheep’s clothing, but the “preachy ones” are a different story. I think if you actually examine the Scriptures, bands like For Today were the one actually being obedient to the Bible. Which as Christians we are called to do. Anyway, loved the video, thanks for the content!
Lou Sensei I’m far from religious in any way but if you can’t take someone’s opinion seriously because they’re religious then I’d say you’re no different than bigoted Christians.
As a former Christian who was super into this whole scene I appreciated the trip down memory lane and respectful approach to this vid. I also believe you are right that many of us grew up in the Church and as we got older shed this belief system in parallel with many of our favourite bands doing the same.
@@psn-nightmarez_tk-fanboy5899 dont get me wrong, i love ABR, but they were just one of many bands when they came out. difference is they found whatever the secret is to longevity in the scene and not breaking up
I feel like, in the same way bands, “evolved,” philosophically with us, AGR continued evolving musically, as well. I’m almost 30 and barely listen to much hardcore or scene music anymore, yet have thoroughly enjoyed their newer stuff
Follow me on Instagram if you enjoy my dumb videos: instagram.com/finnmckenty
I wonder when you will get a show on Vice. That would be sick
dang man you work really hard on these. respect
Or, interestingly, you could get to know actual Christians that like music. Some of us are intelligent.
What happened to Nardcore?!
thanks to your list of retro christian metalcore, I got like, 5 new albums to junk on. thanks
That was possibly the best non biased video i have ever seen on UA-cam. The world needs more people like you, great job.
Yeah, unbelievable lol
I really really appreciate you mr mckenty!
It's so rare to find another person who identifies as atheist, but has a fundamental appreciation for Christianity and explored it with an open mind! I really appreciate your sense of nuance.
So true.
Yes, there is a reason for that...
It’s very interesting for me. I think a lot of atheists CAME from religion, and many of those from Christianity. To be entirely honest, as an atheist who grew up in the church, it’s hard for me to have much appreciation for Christianity at all. That isn’t to say there aren’t Christians I find to be wonderful people - my parents, for example, who are genuinely good people. However, overall, I’ve seen too much to have a lot of respect for it.
Emerald Atheism maybe rare in your brainwashed Christian country mate. There is a whole world out there! Pretty stupid ignorant comment. 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
TIMRAT1 I think you misread the comment ya dummy.
The Christian bands were the real punks. The rock culture didn’t like them and the church condemned them, but the still did their thing.
A true rebel is hated by all, and apologetic to none. 😎
A true punk doesn’t follow the rules of any man but follows that of a higher power or their own accord 🙏🏻🤘🏻
AGREEEEEEED!!!!
Homeslice130 I always saw them that way, the same thing with christian rap.
As a former Christian from a past Christian metal band (Seven System), I can say that I agree with you comments. If the music is solid it will hold up. If it is not, it will be forgotten. Dont use religion as the driving force behind the music, let the music stand on its own.
As an Arkansan and Christian metal fan, I really appreciate that you gave a shout out to Living Sacrifice. I also really appreciate that you're open-minded and accepting of those Christian bands and bands with Christians who are authentic in their message, branding, and musicianship. I pretty well agree on all points with your video. It was obviously extremely well researched and informed. Thanks!
Living Sacrifice is still one of my favorite bands. I remember seeing them play in a very small club in New Hampshire and they put on a hell of a show.
I’m from Arkansas too! 🐗
As a christian I'm glad impending doom was mentioned, they easily had one of the most balanced images that a "christian" band could have. They were boldly christian in their songwriting and lifestyle, but they also were talented, sincere, didn't spare the grit and even called out BS in the Christian community when they saw it, and it was done without being judgemental. The serpent servant, deceiver, baptized in filth, and hellhole were just a few that managed to catch the gritty, less-fun side of it all. I have massive respect for bands that are sincere in whatever it is they choose to do, even if I don't agree with them.
Im mad I never got one of their "we'll scare the hell out of you" shirts
Yep, I would add Living Sacrifice and Demon Hunter to that list. Ryan Clarke does not hold back when he sees something that needs to be called out. Case in point "Cross to Bear".
Demon Hunter is a very unapologetically Christian metal band. Yes, it's that "American Christian" flavour but their conviction is admirable, songs like Cross to Bear, Death and Undying are just brutal as hell with an aggressive delivery of a Christian message.
"Nailed. Dead. Risen." is beyond underrated. Got me into grindcore which I originally thought sounded retarded.
Learned about those bands in a videogame (impending doom, ffak, Demon hunter) and i gotta say as an ex atheist Impending doom drop the hardest stuff i ever heard and the lyrics make you rethink your belief without preaching
As a Christian, I appreciate how charitable you are to them so much. You acknowledge that there are distortions of the faith, and those do not embody true belief. That is huge man. It is so frustrating to feel misrepresented by televangelists and celebrities who care more about their reputations (or who try to have their wife killed).
There are good and bad people in any subculture and it would be dumb to assume everybody is like the bad ones, you know?
Unfortunately, it comes with the territory. I can't count the times I had conversations about the guys from Tension carrying guns and pulling them on people, or even when certain straightedge bands talking about PMA start using violence against others who drink. But if only 1 out of every 10 people ask me a question with sincerity and introspection- then it's all worth it.
Distortions of Faith would be a SICK name for a christcore band!
I second the good feelings from the way you are charitable towards faith people.
Interesting that Time doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to (and/or came from) his full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife.
Really seems like he wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer.
Not to say that people aren't out there trying to look like christian politicians while also being murderers but just pointing out that the two are not compatible. "Christians" who intentionally screw people over (or hire hitmen) are probably always not Christians at all. They are atheists (sorry) who are duping people.
@@VCCassidy do you mind if I steal this or my shitty hs band?
Shout out to Demon Hunter
Ex-Focal Point 😎
@@ThePunkRockMBA And Training for Utopia! The Clark brothers are Christian metal royalty
100%
@IRONHILLdwarf * Right?
i think demon hunters new stuff has more depth. for sure it isnt fast and heavy like the first album, but still love it. i especially love how they and living sacrifice have stuck to their beliefs instead of giving in to societal pressure.
They're not really hardcore anymore but Emery will always be my favorite band. Underoath and Norma Jean are still awesome to this day. Thanks for the insightful and open-minded video.
Emery was awesome!
"I'm only a man" was soooo good.
That emery album with "walls" is so damn good.
Came here looking for Emery mentions
I always chuckled whenever i saw the meme
Before Christian-Core:
*Listens/Moshes to Metalcore*
“I wish I could do this for the Lord”
Hahahaha I laughed really hard at this
I'm a Christian, I loved this video. You are right on. Just remember that humans are the ones who make those mistakes, not the God they try to worship. Whether you believe in God or not, we should love everyone with nothing expected in return.
amen
tegu tantrums ZAO!!!
@@ishoa5018 point of recognition
I have to constantly remind myself that sometimes you just have to separate Christ from Christians.
@Nick Trybull - I'm proudly and happily a sheep. Thanks for the compliment!
Gotta say, as a Christian, I deeply appreciate the approach you took in this video. You were very respectful toward all these bands that I have loved, and you were also fair in your judgment of the preachy arrogance some of the bands adopted toward the end of that era.
It’s good to hear see that movement acknowledged in this way, and calling attention to the unhealthy idea of “Christian music” versus “secular music.” Music doesn’t belong to anyone-we’re all sharing in something that is human, regardless of our beliefs.
Well said- thanks for watching!
I think you are so right when you mentioned that a label as a “Christian band” is so hard to be sustainable. Even if you’re a Christian we all mess up, and when all that scrutiny is put on you because it’s part of your brand, it’s so unhealthy. I grew up in the church, and I thought this was a cool video. Probably some things I’d say differently, but most of it is very well said. It’s such a touchy subject and really is just a label.
As someone with a brain. God is not real and if he is ill punch him right in the mouth for giving me cancer.
Brent Jenner The debate isn’t about the reality of God, rather labels associated with Christianity in the music scene. I said I grew up in a church, aka as a kid, when you go where your parents take you. I’ve got a brain. One that can see that we are all entitled to our own opinions, and respects alternate views of the world. And one that can understand your anger since you’ve been dealt such a shitty situation. Cancer sucks, and I sincerely wish you the best with wherever you are in the process. I know I’m just a rando on the internet, but kick it’s ass if you haven’t already! Stay strong dude!
Well said. As an atheist, I back bands like The Chariot, Norma Jean, and Zao pretty hard. Just can’t deny a banger when it’s a banger.
As a Christian who grew up in that scene, thank you so much for you portrayal and opinion on this sub genre. I found this real and refreshing
Shout out to Disciple!! The band that got me into this genre as a young Christian Kid.
Just recently my band opened up for them, they are still around and as relevant as ever.
They’ve always been preachy but I think people have respected them for not changing their message literally since the 90s. And they’re just a killer band
I still listen to them a lot
Seriously can’t believe he mentioned disciple. Meaning the “real” hardcore disciple. Xdisciplex ad. They were fkn awesome
I'm not the biggest fan of Disciple post "Scars Remain", but I still love that "This Might Sting a Little" was the first CD I ever bought!
Thanks for the tour of my gen 1 iPod nano.
haha late to the game but this comment couldnt be any more on point.
This is, like, the most reasonable thing I've ever heard in my life.
I grew up in the Christian metal scene and when I described the difference between a Christian hardcore pit and a regular hardcore pit I'd say they are just as brutal except in the Christian pit if you get knocked over someone always stops to pick you back up. Living Sacrifice, Zao, Project 86, Mercury Switch, As I lay Dying. So many good bands from that era.
How dare you leave POD off that list
@@joelrolph9229 POD is great also. Hung out with them at Inside Soul Fest here in NH years and years ago.
@@woodchuckknight7820 jealous. Seen them live twice
Fun story, back in high school one of my friends was wearing an underoath tour shirt, I say to him, "you know that's a Christian band right?" he kicked me on my leg and yelled "don't ever say something like that again!" I still laugh about that to this day
I grew up in the church scene and I think the main draw for us wasn't the lyrics or the message of the music. It was a way we could convince our parents to listen to rock music. "But mom, look it's a song about Jesus." It was a gateway to a genre that was otherwise forbidden. I wonder where bands like mewithoutYou/Thrice/Brand New fall in this discussion. Are they on the Underoath/NJ side of the equation or the Reliant K side? Great video man. Keep it up.
Ty Elrod totally true! I couldn’t go to a concert unless there was a “Christian” band
A lot of kids I grew up with were evangelicals, and their parents would only let them listen to Christian bands, and that was how I got into a lot of those bands. I could have cared less about the message, I loved the guitar work, it was heavy, it made you wanna mosh, it was totally cool with me. But my friends’ zealot parents drove me insane
I know Dustin Kensrue from thrice is super religious, but I never really got that feeling from Brand New (even with a song called Jesus Christ) and especially not from mewithoutyou. Maybe Ive just missed it or don’t know any better. I’m curious to learn more about that though.
Yea Thrice isn't really Christian band but Dustin is very religious, he has a solo basically praise and worship sutff. Mewithoutyou was for a long time but they started looking into other religions and and trying out influences form several other religions. He is super awesome and humble and after shows you can talk to him and ive had several discusions with him bout all kinds of things. But haven't in a while so don't know where he stands. and Brandnew that who album was made after the girl from Eisley and him fell out and she went on to marry the guitarist from New Found Glory. It wasnt so much religious it was him in a bad place and mad at her and questioning everything.
Same. I remember putting on Zao and my mom started freaking out. "If you can't understand what he's saying then you don't know if he's a christian!"
So I show her the cd sleeve. "Lies!" she screams. "It sounds like satan!"
To this day she still wont accept that metal can be christian. lol.
Haha my mom introduced me to Stryper because she saw me getting into heavier stuff, good mom trying to compromise and show interest
Stryper is an underrated band and great musicians
@@michaelblack9458 So good!
Stryper is an awesome band musically whether you dig the lyrics or not.
That’s so sweet of her, she’s a cutie lmao
Same here
I'm still jamming August Burns Red, Norma Jean, Fit for a King
Silent planet , Wolves at the gates, Phinehas
@@kfdjkdjjdjfjdjfjdjfj For All Eternity
@@iceize212 Hallelujah You are my King, hallelujah to You I will sing.
You going to FF2020?
xIAMDAVEx hell yeah
Loved this video Finn. I've thought the same thing as you when listening to Christian Hardcore bands regarding lyrics. It's one of the things that kept me listening to them because they weren't taking the "life is hard so I'm going to bitch about it" approach but rather a "life is hard so I'm going to power through it and be a better person because of it" approach. That really resonated with me. I loved the positivity versus wallowing in sadness.
I am a pastor in Payson, Arizona, and I was super hard-core into the metal scene at probably about the same time that you were. I actually got into Christian metal in 1999 with Skillet. My first exposure to Christian metal was there album “invincible.“ I did not know that such a thing as good Christian music existed until I heard their music. It wasn’t long before I got into thousand foot Krutch, Rod, Laver, embodiment, living sacrifice, spoken, and many other Christian metal artists. I remember when Underoath got really big, and embraced a more emo sound to their music. What I appreciate about your video, is, it gives me an outsider perspective as to how that genre of music affected everyone else. I also appreciate that you try to stay in the center with your review, and show respectful sides to this genre, instead of slamming everybody. Thank you. I appreciate it. :-)
I was a Christian for 20 years, a youth pastor for 10 years, and a pastor for 4 years. I didn't even know what hardcore music was until I heard the aforementioned Tooth & Nail bands. It opened me up to a whole new world. Right before Underoath released The Changing of Times, right at the end of their black metal days, a buddy of mine and I paid them $400 to come play a show in Shreveport, Louisiana. There was no scene here so most of the kids who showed up were expecting a sound like Third Day or maybe a little harder sounding. We made it a free show so many youth group kids came and listened to some black metal and didn't know what to think. Looking back, I bet the experience was awkward for the guys in Underoath but my friends and I were glad to be able to see them live before they hit it big. I am no longer a Christian but still appreciate this music which is still a big part of my life. Thank you for posting this.
Really appreciate the emphasis on openness, reflection, and change. P.O.D. was my first ever "favorite band" as a kid and Underoath is easily my favorite metalcore band. Despite being agnostic, I've always found the genre very cathartic and important to my own personal growth. Cheers, dude.
If u never spinkicked a kid in the head at The Attic in Dayton, can u even say u MOSHED 4 CHRIST
Lol!!! Saw winds of plague there
That venue lived and died by this genre lol.
@@chosenxone7 RIP to the Underground in Cincinnati too.
@@alexnicastro9255 Southwest Ohio was a breeding ground for metalcore in this era. Sucks that it's completely deteriorated now. It was truly up there with Socal and Florida with pumping out bands and dope shows.
Alex Nicastro saw as i lay dying at the attic once. Went to see RED almost every time they played there too. The scream the prayer stuff was cool too with the two stage setups
I'm not a Christian at all but I love the first two Norma Jean albums and everything that The Chariot did
Norma Jean kills it
Norma Jean is still cranking out top tier stuff
Fun fact: my first ever Facebook photo was my scene ass in a Norma Jean T-shirt
The Chariot was probably to this day, my favorite band to see live. Their live set was always crazy.
Underøath are still one of my favorite bands of all time. Since I've left the faith since first finding them, the newest album is not only fantasy, but incredibly relatable for me.
So I first discovered the Christian Metal scene back in 2011/12 after I started going to church again and rededicated my life to Christ. I was honestly blown away by how big it was and how much passion was involved with these bands. It’s something I honestly miss with bands nowadays. Unfortunately, a lot of the big bands in the scene either called it quits or ended abandoning the faith altogether. It’s a shame as I’ve always had such a huge love for the Christian Metal community. I even started a small group at my church for people who liked the same music as I do (which were only like 4 people in the whole church but it’s still pretty dope).
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but GOD DAMN I loved me some TnN bands in the 90's....Focal Point, Zao, Strongarm, Blindside, Unashamed, etc.
Dude. I forgot about Blindside. I'm no teddy bear, I'm no teddy bear!
@@SpacemanXC Right?!?! They were a TnN staple for me!
Same thread as you. Loved these bands pretty firmly atheist too
@@ChaosandComics Same with Sleeping Giant, total preach core, but it is still good as fuck. #atheist
As a guy who came of age in the church, in the 90’s, discovering T&N, and then as an adult moving away from my roots, thanks for this video. Great summary. A lot of us are like that: grew up churchy, moved away, but still enjoy the positive or philosophic lyrics and just plain musical genius of many of these bands. It’s been amazing as a father to be able to turn my kids toward actually good music with a positive message, when that option really didn’t exist growing up.
What’s so fucking cool today is seeing teens at my son’s HS “discovering” some of these bands, like it’s some cool new thing - and not giving a shit what religion the band identifies as.
"I'm still an atheist, but I have learned a lot from Christianity." Amen brother, it's refreshing to hear someone with such an open mind. Rock on. Thanks for the solid content.
Thanks for watching!
I remember growing up in the church and also growing up in the punk/hardcore scene as a teenager. Being a christian was an absolute battle to hold onto my beliefs while still enjoying the music and lifestyle. They both felt right to me; speaking out against the ills of the world in a way that speaks in the angry and rough manner that I felt in my heart, but still holding strong to my convictions.
When I first started looking into Christian Metal there were a LOT of Hair Metal horse crap that really turned me off to the idea. Then, one of my church friends told me about Project 86. While their sound was a bit more mainstream than what I was looking for, it still gave me hope that there was more out there, I just had to look for it. So, I did. I found stuff like Underoath, Seventh Angel, Mortification, Crashdog, you know... Wow... I suddenly didn't feel like I was being ripped in half anymore. I felt like I could be a Christian and Punk/Hardcore at the same time. I felt... complete.
If nothing, the christian-core movement strengthened me as a person, but I also noticed that metal and punk started to take on more of a positive tone from thereon. Even if it wasn't a christian band, I was noticing that bands were starting to take on more empowering and self-affirming lyrics and tones. So, I think that christian-core kinda opened people's eyes to the need for a bit more positivity in the genre, whether they be christian bands or not.
Zao strictly toured on churches for a long time, but the band kept getting shit for the style of their music being "demonic." It's easy to see why they got frustrated.
Demon Hunter got it worse for having the word Demon in their name, I remember just laughing at the ignorant religious zealots spewing hate on great bands just because they chose to dislike the music
I remember the time I was in a local Christian bookstore and asked the owner if she had any Tourniquet albums. She looked left, looked right, and pulled three different Tourniquet CDs out and just gave them to me.
Apparently some woman had yelled at her the week prior about the evilness of the band. It was one of the best/saddest days I have had in regards to music and the Church.
CASSIUS AT BEST absolutely loved Zao man they absolutely throwed down live!! Living Sacrifice was also my first love for Christian Hardcore Metal!!
If churches practiced what they preached, the christian metal scene would probably rival most just from churches being willing to be venues for them. They only have theirselves to blame for so many of them turning away from Christianity.
Basically a byproduct of being around mentally lazy people. Undoubtedly a result of having all of life's answers in a book.
Just a shout out to Demon Hunter. Besides the great mixture of metalcore and alternative metal, their vocalist Ryan Clark did a packaging and design for many bands inside/outside the scene.
Thanks for the video Finn!
He is an amazing designer!
Yeah actually know a guy who grew up in like rural Iowa and Demon Hunter was huuuuuuge for him, like the only heavy music he was able to get his hands onto and relate to and they opened up the scene to him. Good stuff
And let's not forget Training For Utopia pre Demon Hunter... I spotted the 'Two Hands' video... Plastic Soul Impalement is still one of my favourite albums all these years later, and I'm not a Christian but the purity (and intensity) of their delivery hit home so much.
Holy smokes... You mentioned Extol...they were.........waaaaaaaay ahead of any curve. Sick.
Yep such a great band, I got saved in '98 and it was extremely hard for me to find good heavy music that I liked in the christian scene; There weren't many bands to listen to, when there were thousands of bands in the secular scene. Extol and a few other bands definitely made the transition a bit easier for me personal. But yea the selection was very slim, just the same as now.
The're still amazing
Their self titled is really something else considering the hiatus they went on. They came back in full force
As a black metal fan. Extol was pretty dope.
Extol blows any of the bands mentioned in the entire video out of the water.
I don’t understand why bands like Unashamed and Overcome never get the respect they deserve even in the spirit filled hardcore scene they seem to go unnoticed
That was the most punk intro I've ever seen
My favorite Christian band has been and always shall be The Chariot. No band has ever had more energy or stage presence than them. They could even take on Dillinger for most chaotic shows.
Saw them on the Haste the Day ending tour with A Plea for Purging and Still Remains, all of that was an amazing show.
Anything with Josh Scogin singing is gonna be a good band.
Luti-Kriss, Norma Jean, The Chariot, and he is now in "68"
My first introduction to Josh Scogin was at PurpleDoor festival in 2004(?) with NJ. I believe the next year he was there with the Chariot and that show was crazy.
Also the festival where I discovered Still Remains on a tiny side stage.
Yes! The chard idiot KILLS! Need more chariot in my life now.
Best concert I've ever seen.
I got chills when i saw Extol on the list, thank you so much for making this video.
No joke!
Extol is lit. One of the more underrated bands of the Christian genre
Matthew Trego extol 🔥
Repping Extol is awesomeness
Oh man, Norma Jean brings me back. One of my old bands used to jam Memphis Will be Laid to Waste before every show. In fact, we were told that they had recorded their entire album as a complete ensemble in one take so we recorded out first album the same way. It's was actually a pretty cool experience. I don't recommend it for everyone, but it really forces you to focus on your musicianship which I think brings an interesting dynamic to the record.
What a time that was! It seemed like most of all the biggest bands were Christian. Not only that, there weren't many bands that were openly atheist or against Christianity (except in the death metal scene). I'm not a religious person (quite the opposite), but some of the Christian bands from that era are still some of my favourites and made some amazing tunes!
I cut my teeth on Spirit Filled Hardcore in the mid-late 90's. My dad was a preacher in a small Illinois farm town but we had a lady from our church who went west and ended up working for T&N Records. She came back to visit occasionally and was basically my connection to the outside world musically. Being a PK I had it rough in that little town and always felt very isolated, so when she turned my on to Unashamed, Focal Point, Living Sacrifice (still my favorite band), Embodyment, Zao...my whole life changed. The music these bands created became like the friends I never had. I would occasionally drive far away to get a chance to see them and went to Cornerstone every year I could. Were it not for that music I don't know what I would be. I love most of the bands that came later, but I was in a regional touring Christian band from 2008-2012 that played with a number of bigger bands and I was not surprised when things began to implode. We could smell the blood in the water and frankly what happened probably needed to. But those early days man...were spiritual for me. Thank you so much for this video Finn. xSFHCx
i was never in a touring band but if you went to and/or played cornerstone and other shows in illinois in the past 20ish years there's a good chance we've crossed paths. what was your band called? have you been to audiofeed?
Pk here too man..
Absolutely loved this video man, I know I'm a year late but as a christian, hearing you say you're an atheist, but a Christian ally, gives me mad respect for you.
The bands have been listening to a whole lot recently have been fit for a king, sleeping giant, saving grace, August burns red, and demon hunter.
I grew up in the christian punk/hardcore scene, played in many bands all along the spectrum and I've gotta say this video hits the nail on the head. I think the last part about people kinda "growing up out of their faith" is accurate. People change their perspectives and opinions as they get older sometimes, so it's kind of a natural occurance when it happens. Great video, keep up the good work.
PS. this video made me remember a lot of the stuff i grew up listening to. Living Sacrifice, ZAO, EXTOL... basically the entire Tooth and Nail/Facedown catalog. My band's first show was with Embodyment back in 2000. Also if you haven't already- check out these Facedown bands: HANDS (no longer active but super amazing), EVERYTHING IN SLOW MOTION (Singer from HANDS formed this band), My Epic is also really great!
Peace.
Luke LoChiano or, does it hit the tooth and nail on the head?
Oh man, all this talk about tooth and nail is bringing back my youth.
Don't listen to any of the current Tooth and Nail stuff, but ya.
Yeah I was a big Foreigner fan too 👍 it was my favourite shower song at church camp ...
Don’t ever bring up “church camp shower” again. U know what happened at church camp showers. Horrible horrible and hardly any arrests were made. This sickos man!!!
I'm late to the party, but I really appreciated this video. I'm a Christian. I got I to Christian hardcore in the mid 90s with early Tooth and Nail bands and feel the same way you did about them having something to say. I also feel the same way you did about some of the more "bash them over the head with a Bible" bands of the 20teens as being fake and not really needed with the way they went about things. Its really refreshing to listen to a non Christian talk about what was going on with the Christian scene and being open to the bands and being able to take something away even if they didn't agree with the beliefs.
You're right--there was this weird period from like 2003-2008 where nearly every band was some form of Christian-core. I grew up in a holler in the Appalachia region of Kentucky and Christian 'core' was huge. There were a ton of local, regional, and touring bands that made their way to our neck of the woods. My personal favorite, Beloved, played one night in a double-wide trailer. There were many others such as the Showdown, Chasing Victory, and other Mono vs Stereo bands (I think this was an imprint on Solidstate, I may be wrong).
And then there were bands like Thrice... still to this day my favorite band despite the underlying Christian lyrical themes.
Excellent video as always.
Really enjoyed that! Thought it came across really balanced and the personal side was quite touching. I've never been religeous or had any supernatural beliefs, but I totally get what you are saying about the lyrics having a meaning and personal connection. As much as I love the usual metal tropes, as I get older lyrics about self improvement and being a better person, resonate far more than lyrics about serial killers etc
I grew up in the church fell out and came back. I’ve heard not good things about tooth and nail and I think there is something going on behind the scenes in Christian labels. Also I think Christians viewed these bands as preachers or leaders in the church (unfairly). Leaders preachers And deacons are held to a high standard and I think the pressure was to much. So when they struggled publicly with sin the Christian community rebuked them rather than loved them.
Thats a very good point- at a certain point no human can live up to those expectations
I've known people in bands and people who know people in bands that were on tooth and nail. You are correct, they screwed quite a few people making their way to the top of the Christian label ladder.
We used to call it tooth and fail
I never paid attention to people in my church who said that metal is inherently satanic when I was a kid. As an adult, I've grown in my faith and I'm really happy that there are christian metal bands who's music teaches lessons that no other genre can. Bands like Wolves at The Gate and Rival Choir do a fantastic job at teaching about the brokenness of humanity and the effects of sin. That's why they're two of my favorite bands.
Bless you for putting an extended clip of the chariot tearing a record store apart in this. long live.
The Fucking Chariot. Not many bands were as absolutely insane as those guys
One honorable mention was the band The Crimson Armada. Which everyone thought was a Christian band because they had spiritual lyrics but the vocalist came out and said it wasn't about Christianity at all. And that they had quoted the Qur'an. They completely fell off the planet after that.
Love their first album. Sick af break downs.
I had no idea they quoted the Quran
Aren't they a NC band...I think they are. We had a lot of great bands come out of NC that you wouldn't expect.
I think they classified themselves as a religious band
@@brandonburns9046 the band has Christan members but the vocalist said they aren't a Christan band.
For Today was very preachy, but definitely not bigots or fakes. They took their faith seriously and we're just following the command of spreading the gospel to others. And many people were touched by it, and that's why I'm a Christian today.
I'm a protestant Christian and have been for 12 years. I also grew up with a ton of these bands so I can probably give you some insider baseball here:
When you have any kind of worldview that is so encompassing like Christianity calls for, there is a sort of "maintenance" aspect to that worldview. This isn't exclusive to religion, it's the same with sports, veganism, politics, etc. Soccer players hang out with other soccer players, vegans hang out with other vegans, democrats with other democrats, etc.
The problem with a lot of these Christians in bands is that they had to spend 99% of their year on the road for their band to succeed with people who are generally hostile to religion. Think of a democrat spending 5 years working for a republican campaign, a vegan spending 10 years employed by McDonald's, etc. Their minds will almost inevitably change.
Some of these guys are still Christians, but because they've spent so much time away from a HEALTHY church that doesn't preach "Jesus makes you rich after you make me rich" bullcrap, they will adapt a more secular view of Christianity that is essentially not Christianity.
For fans like me, it took some time to realize that the success of these bands did not make them any more Christian. As a matter of fact, it made them the opposite. As Christians like me grew up we stopped handing over money and attention to these fake bands and so Tooth & Nail and even SolidState had to start signing bands that didn't even make an effort to profess Christianity.
It was a recipe for disaster. God worked through it for sure, but that testifies to His mercy that He would "draw straight lines with crooked sticks"
The Christian music industry is also incredibly disgusting. Inside and outside the church.
Inside the church we widely accept and promote songs that are incredibly vapid, don't even mention Jesus, and would better fit a Taylor Swift record (see Good Good Father by HouseFires)
Outside the church it's just trying to be deceptively unChristian while being Christian? People feel cheated haha. See what Lecrae is doing.
Listen to Aaron Gillespie's podcast episode on BadChristian. It explains why he was so disillusioned with the Christian music industry. Dude went from making a worship album to saying religion should be nowhere near music.
Anyway, love your videos! Hope my comment added something to you.
Very interesting and insightful- and makes perfect sense. Impossible to spend that much time around people without being influenced by them.
Thanks man its really refreshing to see that. And I wanna be another "as a Christian myself, here's my story" but I started questioning my faith for sure cause I well grew up listening to all sorts of punk and metal while being raised Catholic. Thankfully despiye being gullible & stupid looking back, I was able to grow up open minded and attempt to be more comprehensive; and it honestly scary hearing the idea that some bands are not who they say they are much having the uncertainty cause it can make you go crazy. To this day I'll still go to church (in choir), go to a charismatic conference yet listen to ABR, Sleeping Giant, Bad Religion, PWD, Casting Crowns, and thats an odd list and wide spectrum. And thanks to Punk Rock MBA. I love your content cause it reminds there are times I can learn things outside the church settings and exposes to more great bands whether I like em or not. Hopefully I can keep committed to my faith and be have clairvoyance. Have a good one bros.
You're absolutely right. As a Christian who grew up listening to a lot of the Christian punk and hardcore bands, I've been saddened to see how many have fallen away or given up their faith or have watered down the Gospel until it's too vague to be of any substance. Many of them just got burned out or lacked a solid group of believers to fellowship with. Thankfully there are a few (like Craig's Brother) that are still going and seem to have that same fire, which is a blessing!
Woah, Andres is on here? That's awesome, thanks for commenting. Your time with Mouth of the South & working on The Saving was so cool to watch from the outside.
I personally relate more with what Finn alluded to in the video. As someone that was raised Christian with a hyper conservative father in the heart of BFN Tennessee, I loved finding new Christian bands. It was the only thing that made me feel any kind of welcome in the church at all. A band like For Today really felt like such a positive thing, almost like church for those who didn’t feel all that welcome in the actual church.
It wasn’t until 4-5 years ago in my early 20’s where I really started questioning the beliefs and indoctrination that I was raised with. It was then that I asked myself the question, “do I really believe this stuff or is the idea of faith just what makes me feel comfortable because I was raised with it, and it’s all I’ve known?” The answer became pretty obvious at that point, as I’m a very logically thinking person, and it just never made much sense to me. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these bands had similar revelations that caused them to stop identifying as Christians.
I saw As I Lay Dying at the church down the street from my house back in '00.
There were probably 40 people there..... good times.
average joe why to bad? He’s out, they have a new album and it’s damn good. Couldn’t get a ticket to their reunion shows either. Think they’re just fine.
@@btgkg9639 Tim Lambesis is a hack and a horrible person to represent christianity. Forgiveness doesn't mean outright support and including them in the community anymore.
@@IHateMyAccountName Well they have been accepted back in the community and they’re doing just fine. Seems a lot of people have forgiven him, so I’m pretty sure Jesus forgave him too. Doesn’t seem very Christian to act like that.
I am not a christian but ive always felt a deep appreciation for those churches around the country that allowed our band to tour and have amazing shows in a great atmosphere. They really stepped up and gave kids an outlet/weekly activity to stay out of trouble and find something they identified with. That 2004-2007 scene was golden.
MAKE A VIDEO ON THE CHRISTIAN POP/PUNK SCENE! Relient k, Hawk Nelson, Stellar Kart, Switchfoot, Mxpx, that was my life growing up!!!
Finn, this is a good idea ☝🏽
Your life was shit then
@@TheLexiconDevils not to him, maybe for you though. Different strokes for different folks 🤷♀️
I loved MxPx as a teenager, and even though I've always identified as a Christian, I didn't know they were a "Christian band," I just liked their music. I met them at a Warped Tour, and they were the nicest dudes, still have an autographed t-shirt!
Lexicon Devil who hurt you? Holy fuck lol
Nothing killed us. We're still here. We just lost some bandwagoners. Which is fine by me.
Lol oh no......
This video was rad. I think it would be cool if you did a video on the Christian punk bands of the late 90s and early 2000s. Bands like Headnoise, Officer Negative, and you could even go into a little ska like the O.C. Supertones. Good video dude
Thank you!
I couldn't agree more! Still totally listen to them!
@@ruppertb320 Me too dude. I love all three of those bands I mentioned. They are killer!
@@ezekielgehr6930 Yeah they are!
@@ruppertb320 Ya don't meet very many people who even know what I'm talking about
I played in a metal band Called this or the apocalypse and had the chance to tour with many of these bands. Thanks for this video. It was awesome to reminisce a major part of my life.
I played in a Christian metal band and y’all was who I wanted to tour with the most and I may or may not have used haunt what’s left as a guidebook when I was writing for them.
We're you on the tour with Inhale Exhale?
I still listen to Christian metalcore "religiously" like its seriously my shit. And wolves at the gates newest album is extremely good as are the last 2 sleeping giant albums. To speak of wolves as this really cool spoken word song called rearview memories
Sleeping Giant has never stopped killing it. So damn good.
@IRONHILLdwarf * they arent that great after hearing a few songs from each
Wolves At The Gate are a great band. I saw them in San Diego like 5 years ago and I was blown away.
WATG just my favorite band of all!!!
To Speak of Wolves is amazing
This video is amazing. I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, was only allowed to listen to Christian music as a kid and so I found stuff I liked. I’ve shared the stage with Extol, Demon Hunter, been in bands with members that were in Zao and Embodyment. I vividly remember hanging out with Tim from As I Lay Dying in parking lots after shows. I would just move the dates a little earlier, like the Christian hardcore scene really started slapping I’d say more 2000 rather than 2005. But I was in the scene at the time so my estimates might be a bit earlier. Love this video though, gonna be sharing it with some old friends for sure.
I think he's right about the 2005 era. Christian bands started showing up in videogames left right and centre. Guitar Hero and MX vs ATV (Pillar) is where I learned about a few of them personally. But I'm also in the boat where Demon Hunter , P.O.D., Emery and Thousand Foot Krutch were already cool (though I was late to Living Sacrifice and Overcome - was a bit young, Canadian and tech impaired I think when they were big). Realize some of my notes here aren't hardcore, but just trying to let you know I was into the Christian scene more generally.
The "assume they are Christian unless they say otherwise" comment was spot on for that time period. It was weird.
That shit was wild. So many bands just caught it because they got signed to a specific label and didn't use any "unacceptable" language in their lyrics. The Agony Scene being called a christian band was absolutely nuts lmao.
Also,one of the most powerful things I ever heard a Christian band say about beliefs at a show was Maylene and the Sons of Disaster. They were playing this 3 day fest that a local Christian radio station put on (RIP M88) and Dallas stood up and basically said "the truth is out there but the most important thing is if you're going to believe in something, make sure that you don't just believe because your friends do or some band up here told you to."
As a kid that grew up in a Christian house, finding these bands was my introduction to heavy music. And I identified with it for the same reasons you mentioned, it challenged my mindset, I saw myself in the lyrics. I’m not religious any more, but dancing barefoot at a Sleeping Giant show in 2007 was still a spiritual experience in my eyes.
ZAO was probably the first truly heavy band that I would listen to front to back, way before I knew they were xtian or anything. Loved seeing them get a shout out, I owe them a lot. Great video
Zao is great
Zao is the best metal band that came out from that bunch. And oh yeah living sacrifice
They were definitely the Christian hardcore band that was "acceptable" to listen to haha. Maybe also Walls of Jericho.
You'd actually be surprised at how many people in Christian bands are phonies. I got a friend in one of Solid State Records's biggest bands and he's told me stories about how the majority of bands after the Christ core explosion didn't believe what they claimed and were only doing it for the fame, which as a Christian really pisses me off that someone would claim what I believe just for the money. I'm just glad we're getting back to a point where bands are only gonna call themselves Christians if they actually believe what they're preaching
The Crimson Armada was one of the worst about this. They played a bunch of Christian festivals and tours, featured only Christian singers on their records and then came out with a shitty drunken party music video and tried to say they were never a Christian band.
This was true in the late 90s-early 00s as well, there were always accusations, particularly toward Tooth & Nail/Solid State bands but others as well, that they didn't take Christianity seriously and only signed because there was a bigger built-in fanbase in the "Christian music" scene. It's reflective of the long-standing conflict in Christian music about whether bands should primarily be a vehicle for evangelizing, or whether it was ok to be Christians using music to talk about other things in their life.
one of solid states biggest bands? who are the big bands of solid state now? i only know of SIlent Planet
So true. I used to work for Tooth and Nail/Solid State. I noticed a lot of the bands I met were pretty awful people and I casually asked a coworker: so is tooth and nail really a christian label? (Ftr, I didn't care either way but a lot of things made me curious). He didn't answer me for a long time then finally said "Tooth and Nail markets to a Christian audience." And that perfectly sums them up.
@@soulexchangemusic Solid State is the metal/hardcore imprint for Tooth & Nail, literally every christian band passed through there at one point...
Now... there biggest are probably Demon Hunter, The Devil Wears Prada, Norma Jean, Oh, Sleeper, Fit for a King
But pretty much every major player in the chrisitian scene was on the label at one point: Zao, Underoath, August Burns Red, The Agony Scene, Emery, Few left Standing, Living Sacrifice, Haste the Day, Devil Wears Prada, HE is Legend, Extol, Figure Four, No Innocent Victim, Training for Utopia, Stretch Armstrong
I grew up Mormon which was weird because I felt ostracized by both the "Christian" crowd AND the secular crowd. I ultimately ended up feeling more at home in the secular punk and hardcore scene because it just felt more normal to me (Mormons culture is very different from evangelical christian culture). That being said there were still bands that I loved that were Christian. MxPx - Life in General was one of the first punk cds i ever bought when i was in middle school. Now that I have left the church and am in my mid 30's, I look back on my experiences with the Mormon Church in the same way you look at the christian scene. It helped shape who I am and I am glad I had those experiences. Another great video man. Always excited to see what you come up with.
I sincerely love Mormons! Never met one that wasn’t a genuine, kind, friendly person
I’m also a Mormon. I’m still active in the church. I totally agree with you’re comment.
@@ThePunkRockMBA Yeah, definitely. I still have a lot of friends and pretty much all my family that are "active" in the church. Great people, but I have a lot of problems with the organization and belief system.
I literally just posted the same thing! Lol. Life in general was the first punk CD I ever bought when I was 12 and it changed my life.
@@danielhance1467 Nice man! I still remember looking through the pages of my Transworld Skateboarding magazine and seeing that ad and then they had a review of the album as well. I was at the record store a couple days later with that CD in my hand. They were also my first show with Home Grown, Jeffries Fan Club, Kara's Flowers (Maroon 5), and The Ataris opening.
I grew up Catholic, but friends go me involved in the Protestant churches around age 18. Basically, Tooth and Nail records defined my life at that time in 1995. I have seen those friends of mine try different segments of the faith or leave the faith entirely(including myself a couple times). You did a good job at being impartial here(which seems rare these days). Yes, some of those bands were very good from a musical standpoint, and good people, too. I remember meeting POD at a music festival back in 1998 before they went on MTV and became big shots. Another band to mention was 6 Feet Deep(1994 -1996).Within the scene itself, I knew a lot of people, between Philadelphia and Illinois. At most suburban churches, though, there were a lot of judgmental pricks with a double standard that didn't think the bands were "Christian enough". That ended up pushing me away from the church in the early 2000s. In 2005, I was rocking out to "Jesus of Suburbia" by Green Day LOL. I think judgmental people that had a good place within their little church community were what really killed the scene.
I’m really impressed by the way you spoke about this with a lot of respect. It’s refreshing to see someone respecting other people’s beliefs and opinions even if they disagree with them. I think we should all aspire to be as open-minded and understanding as you are. 🙂
I grew up in the church and went to worship every week because my parents made me. I hated the music that was played and preferred rock/metal. Even though I really liked A7X, MCR, Atreyu, and Bullet for my Valentine, they weren’t “Christian” and I battled internally between listening to what I wanted and trying to be a “Good Christian.” Christian metal was a way to listen to music I liked, and not feel guilty about it.
I’m a Christian myself raised a Christian my whole life but Christianity itself is an umbrella for so many different believes. The way I was raised was to respect God first and follow his commandments, the church doesn’t save Jesus does, I was also taught that we’re all sinners and only God can forgive us when we come to him, not the church, I love metal, all the way to slamming brutal, it’s music, I have respect for a lot of bands that I chose not to listen to because I feel their lyrics are against my personal values with God. But I don’t feel guilty for the one that I do listen to. Our relationship with God as Christians is a personal one and I think that should always be the case, an organization for the most part only serves to ruin that personal relationship in a lot of cases. Once you really meet god and it’s not just a forced belief for the sake of believing then nothing will break that bond, not music and not the church.
You should listen to whatever you like without worrying what others think. Everyone has valid points and theres no reason not to apply them to your opinions
I’m a Christian and I just listen to whatever music that I enjoy
@@omnipotentgaming166 Very well said.
Awesome video! Chad from Strongarm shared it on facebook today and complimented you on your accuracy! ha. While doing Eulogy, John and I were discussing bands we had the opportunity to release and one of them was Christian at the time. We ultimately decided that our personal beliefs were not relevant to the audience and if we dig the music and the people making the music, we should work together. I was super into a few Christian bands at the time too like Zao and Stretch Armstrong which helped make the decision.
Ha! That’s awesome to hear
The sub genre is still alive, it’s just more rare to find artists as good as they were in the 2000’s. I just found a solo artist, A Secret Ending, who is probably in my top 3 bands now. Fucking beautiful deathcore.
Never knew that P.O.D was considered a part of the whole Christiancore scene. I’ve added some new knowledge to my repertoire, thanks for that.
bow_to_fitzy I suggest checking out some of their earlier stuff like Snuff the Punk. I met them early on in a church show lol. The name itself, Payable on Death, is a Christian reference. I think when bands get that big, though, they of course softened the message and focus on being more marketable to a broader audience
@@AlexJewellAlex Yep. They also founded Rescue Records. Snuff the punk was amazing album back in the day.
@@AlexJewellAlex I love finding out stuff like this. thanks
My favorite pod song is abortion is murder, just a classic
I'm right there with you my man. At first I honestly thought that P.O.D was actually a Political Band at first. Because the reason how I found out about P.O.D was honestly because of Rage Against The Machines. And I kid you not when I found out they were Christian's, I looked at there Lyrics differently in a diffrent perspective. Honest truth 🙌🙌
As a Christian myself, I'm glad to hear that although you did attend some bible studies with a friend, you stayed with your beliefs and true to yourself. I have nothing but respect towards you. Christianity isn't the answer for everyone and unfortunately there are a lot of bad parts in the Christian community. I also love that you always kept an open mind to these bands. As you said, you don't need to be a christian to appreciate the themes in the music.
Because half of the people in the Chri9 community is not really Christians. If they were. They would know that God want us to love our neighbors. As Christians we need to keep am open mind too 🤗
You are literally the first Christian I have ever encountered that believes Christianity isn't for everyone.
@@radzo1675 nice to know that I made history for you haha. But yeah. It isn't for everyone. Plus it's not always easy finding "Christians" that act in the way Christ would want. Just look at all the Christians that yell at the lgbt community about how they're abominations that will burn in hell. That is not something Christ would preach and it's contrary to actual Christian values. Because of hatred like that being spewed is why even though I'm a Christian, I don't actually go to church. I practice my faith in my own way.
@@dragonsfire295 I couldn't have said it any better. I have a Christian friend who is very open about his faith. However, like you, he does not attend Church and the other Christians we worked with used to talk shit about him all the time to me just because of that fact. Even people that attend services practice in their own way without realizing it.
@@dragonsfire295 I'm curious to know what Christ would actually preach and what Christian values are? Didn't Jesus talk about Hell more than anyone else in the whole Bible? And what does a Christian do with verses that talk about the church?
My favorite hard band from the last 15 years must be Demon Hunter. Perhaps they don’t belong on the list because they may not be considered a hard-core or punk band but I consider them one of the most important bands in Christian hard rock for the last 15 years. Thanks for this video and for your respect and sensitive approach.
hey finn, this video was done beautifully and respectfully. always killin it dewd
I remember the first show I ever went to was a Christian show. I wasn't Christian, though, being raised in the South, I was surrounded by Christians, and somehow, the promoters for these tiny, hole in the wall venues were able to bring in some pretty prominent Christian hardcore bands.
This first show was was opened by a band I didn't know at the time, but ended up becoming friends with members of the band years later, the second band was touring with the headliner, and I don't remember who they were either, and the third band, the headliner, was For Today.
I had heard of For Today from my friend's older sister and her boyfriend, and they were the ones who took us to this show. My friend and I, both guitarists, stood in front of the lead guitarist for For Today for their entire set, and he talked with us between songs, answering our endless questions about his pedals and amp, and I was really taken aback by how nice he was the whole night. What absolutely blew me away though, was when he began playing the intro to "Agape." Growing up, I was into Sabbath, Zeppelin, The Ramones, and The Misfits, so when this dude broke out this sweeping arpeggio intro, I was amazed. I'd never seen anything like it, at that point in my life.
Over the years, I saw For Today a handful of times after that, and, sadly, each time it felt more and more like their band was a vehicle to recruit Christians, which I was adverse to, so I stopped being a fan.
On the topic of how this genre has died down, I don't have any factual reasoning, but I have a guess based upon my own observations of the guys I grew up attending shows and playing music with. Everyone seemed to get older and slowly stopped being religious. I had friends who formed a band in high school, who played very Christian metalcore music, and I know as time went on they had multiple members leave due to ideological differences, either because the band was not Christian enough, or because the band was too Christian, and that seems to be the course for most of the bands I knew growing up. The local headlining bands from my youth all broke up around the time they hit my current age(mid-20s) because they stopped believing in Christianity, or because the members who were still Christian wanted to be more Christian with their music, and the members who had become agnostic/atheist didn't want to keep preaching about a religion they no longer believed.
this was great, you didn't slam everything. This was super unbiased and a well thought essay on this topic.
I've been a devout Christian my whole life and am so happy Christian metalcore bands existed. I've always been a huge metal fan but felt somewhat conflicted when it came to my faith and taste in music, a lot of these bands showed me that these don't have to be mutually exclusive from eachother and that I can absolutely enjoy both. It's what kept my inspiration up and helped me continue to pursue music as a passion.
Amen! 🙏❤️
I've love a what killed Christian punk rock scene video. When I was younger I was all into that scene. I still love me some old skool Hawk Nelson and Relient K.
Seconded!
My bad I realized I wrote my comment wrong lol. I meant to say I'd like to see a what killed Christian punk rock/pop punk lol.
CCM and syndicated Christian radio killed it :(
The second RK left GoTee records, things started dying for them. Anberlin did pretty well, but they just couldn’t reach the success that Switchfoot or Underoath were able to. A lot of the guys in the really good bands ended up having families and leaving the music lifestyle behind.
Rachel Elizabeth switchfoot sold out to secularity and after their first album they just sucked anyway
Christian core killed Christian core
Brett screwed Brett!!!
It isn’t Christianity that’s killing itself, Colin, it’s fake Christians who outwardly profess to be Christians, but secretly are pieces of shit. I believe Jesus called them “hypocrites.” He also said He wanted nothing to do with them.
#Corrected
^^^ #butthurt
Billy Scheel lol how or where in his words is he hurt u dummy
@@SuptricLucid101 calm down I was referring to the music genre CHRISTIAN CORE, not attacking anybody religious beliefs
Love your objective view on a divisive genre. As a Christian I appreciate how you did this. Seriously, you are in my prayers brother.
Seeing so many positive comments here and really haven't stumbled on any ignorant comments here! Makes me happy :) I can't wait to give this a good watch when i have a bit more time
Its refreshing isnt it?? Only a few dummies
Demon Hunter is THE Christian-core/metal band for me
Santa Claus is DEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAD! XD
Man, i love Disciple.
They are the best man. I been listening to them a long time
@@andrewm9978 in the midst of lions was my favorite band
@@raremetalmusic1312 first off, naice. Excellent and criminally underrated band. Coolest album cover of all time and one of my very favorite bands. When i tried doing vocals for my own music, matt jensen was the vocalist i learned from and tried to copy and i later realized that a lot of guitar riffs id write ended up sounding like itmol riffs because i listened to them so much. So bummed i never got to see them live. Second, username checks out.
I got into “core ”music when I converted to christianity. I can say becoming a Christian is what took me from listening to normie metal like SOAD and Slipknot to listening to With Blood Comes Cleansing and Impending Doom, some of the heaviest bands in my book. I’m no longer Christian but the faith and these bands taught me a lot. Mostly “Don’t be a dick.” Great video Finn!
You're always welcome to come back, brother :)
I remember Speaking with Dan from Zao two years ago after a show and I asked him why they stopped talking about Jesus or calling themselves Christian hardcore.
He said the church the band attended since they were kids turned on them and called them satanic and that they weren’t true Christian people because of their music style.
I’m anti religion but I’ll never not love ZAO. Just sucks they got done like that.
thats not uncommon. At all.
So.... They proved their church right?
Tooth and Nail was also a lasting impact on my teenage years. Glad to see some props given to that scene e
hell yea dude - who are a couple of your top favorite tooth and nail bands you only know because of tooth and nail.... mine would be slick shoes, strongarm ....
Knew a lot of the tooth and nail guys. Bunch of douche bags nothing good to say about them.
@@bramblecino wow i didn't know that. was that back in seattle like before it was really really big
Yeah I think so. I left that scene in 1993-94. Was in it for a couple years top. It was very “clique” and a big popularity contest and kinda churchy
When I was a teenager (mid 2000s) friends and I went to Sonshine Christian music festival in Minnesota like 3 or 4 years in a row specifically because they had a "heavy metal stage" in a cleared out hockey arena. Saw several of the bands you mentioned and had some of my best concert memories there, lots of great bands, great sound and awesome crowd energy, huge mosh pits and circle pits, throw-down pits. Everyone was just happy to be there and fully into the heavy music. ANYWAY, It was really cool and interesting and nostalgic listening to this video👍
That's wild brother. I got to see Seventh Star, TOURNIQUET(!!!), and some others on that exact stage.
Sonshine was great overall. Hung out with old school Disciple for a minute, saw Project 86 put on one of the best performances I've been too, saw Flyleaf before they hit the radio. Man, those were good times...
Stretch your ears for Jesus Christ.
necktattoos for Jesus!
yeah! put an ear tunnel piercing!
Sorry buds. My ears and asshole are closed for business. Take that Jesus shit back to Kentucky or wherever you come from.
Great job man. This video gave me chills. Enjoyed it a lot and grateful for you being fair. Cool to hear about your experience with early Tooth and Nail.
Oh, Sleeper - "The Fire Dawn".
You're welcome.
Yes sir
Oh sleeper is 👌👌👌
Oh, Sleeper are one of the best. Insane lyrics and concepts.
Favorite band.
Living sacrafice, underoath , cheers ! I love this shit and am whole heatedly an atheist! I don't agree with the message , but the passion is there. Many cornerstone shows under my belt I must say they are undeniably powerful.
You are definitely one of the best people in the scene in YT as far as doing reviews and explaining how and why the alt scenes have changed and evolved over time. Thanks for your awesome content!
Thank you!
As someone who has worked in Christian rock for the past 8 years, during the downward spiral, this is really on point. Mad respect for your perspective and your thoughtful handling of the progression of the genre. :-)
Thank you!
Great video man! I’ve been a fan of your videos for a while. I grew up in this scene, or better one parallel to it Christian Pop Punk. Got to tour with a few of these bands, I still tell the story of getting to play shows with Strongarm and how great those guys were and playing Nintendo with MXPX haha. Today I’m a 41 year old worship pastor at a church in my hometown with full sleeve tattoos and a continuing punk rock mentality. It makes people in my church laugh when I get to show them old tour van photos. Anyway, I loved the honesty in this video and hearing not only about the bands but your experience with them and faith. I love your open mindedness and wish more people had it on “both sides”. Keep up the good work. And yeah it would be cool to see you talk about Christian punk bands from that time (Loved some silliness of Ghoti Hook).
Thanks man, appreciate it!
Oh man, I loved Ghoti Hook back in the day. Banana Man was a classic!
I see you
Skallywag haha what’s up
Tim Lambeisis's fall was the thing that woke me up a bit -- that dude lived the stereotype of the christian who was raised in the church, studied the faith deeply, found problems in it that caused him to doubt, and ended up losing that faith. I look back on albums like The powerless rise and Awakened and some of the lyrical content in that music and can totally see the guy doubting in his religion and starting to get desperate. In that sense as soon as it came out that he had renounced christianity tried to have his wife killed It was more clear what this dude had been going through. just one of the biggest things that highlighted what happened to the christian scene in my view.
Interesting that his doubting seemed to justify his probable affair which lead to a full on denial of his faith and then to trying to kill his wife.
Dude wasn't trying to be a christian and a murderer at the same time his denial lead to him becoming a murderer.
@@mattkrammmusic1401 great point! That amount of cognitive dissonance has driven a lot of people crazy!
I was able to see the band backstage a week before he was arrested. It was very obvious from their Green room and the two women on his arms they were not a Christian band at that point. It was actually heartbreaking as I grew up listening to them.
I would not let the views of a drug addict who tried to hire a hit man to kill his wife affect you too much. He’s got a few issues.
Preface: I am a reformed Christian who believes completely in the Word of God.
I absolutely loved your take on this topic! Informative and personal. You had me locked in...until the end. I agree with the fact that the fake/lying Christians needed to be exposed as wolves in sheep’s clothing, but the “preachy ones” are a different story. I think if you actually examine the Scriptures, bands like For Today were the one actually being obedient to the Bible. Which as Christians we are called to do.
Anyway, loved the video, thanks for the content!
You lost me at your first sentence. I couldn't take anything after that serious I'm so sorry👾
Lou Sensei I’m far from religious in any way but if you can’t take someone’s opinion seriously because they’re religious then I’d say you’re no different than bigoted Christians.
@@estevanruiz31 well said
@@estevanruiz31 I completely believe in the Word of the holy Bacon Sandwich in my fridge. Please take me serious.
brother i could not agree more.
As a former Christian who was super into this whole scene I appreciated the trip down memory lane and respectful approach to this vid. I also believe you are right that many of us grew up in the Church and as we got older shed this belief system in parallel with many of our favourite bands doing the same.
August Burns Red is still King of the scene. Their last 2 records are by far their best!
They're one of the pioneers of modern day metalcore.
@@psn-nightmarez_tk-fanboy5899 dont get me wrong, i love ABR, but they were just one of many bands when they came out. difference is they found whatever the secret is to longevity in the scene and not breaking up
@@toddh3147 Totally correct. They have somehow managed to keep that metalcore sound kinda "fresh" on each record. And man, they are good live.
I feel like, in the same way bands, “evolved,” philosophically with us, AGR continued evolving musically, as well. I’m almost 30 and barely listen to much hardcore or scene music anymore, yet have thoroughly enjoyed their newer stuff