Thank You Lyle.... So I get up, make coffee, turn on this lap top, and find a new show from "mrpete222" .. I watch and I think back to my early shop days in 1971. My shop teacher talking about knurls. I so much wish I could briefly return and express how much my teachers efforts have influenced my 49 years being a machinist!!! .. LYLE I appreciate ALL YOU DO!!!..... TM
Very true about that nonesense of diameters and pitches on knurls. That "B&S" knurler is great adapted to the lathe. I have several videos of adapting screw machine/ turret lathe tooling to my Logan 10" lathe.
Mr. Pete, you know darn well that the knurl on a micrometer is there so you don't have to squeeze your water pump pliers so hard when making fine adjustments.
Your the best Lyle. I really enjoy all your instructional videos it takes me back over 50 years to my metals shop classes in High School. I wish you would put a disabled Veteran discount on a complete set of your training videos , I know I want a set. I can’t afford them separately.
Mr Pete, I greatly admire your presentation and teaching techniques. This vid could/should be used as a guide for those who want to know how to put together a teaching vid properly. I hope this day finds you well and healthy.
MR. Pete, I wish I had you as a shop teacher back in the day! I might've actually learned something! Well, I'm learning now, so it's never too late to start, I guess. I enjoyed your teaching style, keep the videos coming! Great stuff!
Thank you Mr Pete. I have the Armstrong with the three way head and have made good and bad knurls with it. I agree that it puts way too much stress on my old machine but that all that I have to work with and was happy to get it, but I will definitely be looking for better options. So far I have not seen anything in the wild that I could aquire.
Hi Danny, search for "scissor knurling tool", there are some kits too, James from Clough42 and Quinn from Blondihacks both have youtube videos building some.
Hobby machinist from Kankakee. Been learning from you for years. Thanks for posting all the information. Definitely going to track down a hand knurler.
I use my mini bolt cutters for all kinds of stuff! But mainly to clip my tig wire. After 10s of thousands of cuts on stainless and harder materials they can still clip a piece of scotch tape cleanly!! May not sound impressive but if u know you know lol. Kleins and other top brands (that aren’t much cheap) could never hold up like the knipex
I was first exposed to knurling from my shop teacher Mr. Morrison at Kewanee High School by making a ball peen hammer handle. The method I learned was to keep the rollers engaged with the cut and use multiple passes back and forth by reversing the feed and increasing the depth until the desired result was achieved. It would not be a high production method but was very good for learning the process and making a great project for a budding machinist. Thanks Mr. Pete for another interesting video!
I've wondered about the relationship between the diameter of the piece and the knurl tool wheels. Thanks for the discussion, looking forward to viewing part 2 tomorrow. I appreciate your teaching style.
We had a family of parts a few years ago that were big on appearance so we tried cut knurling as opposed to pinch... I'm not gonna lie it was a game changer, they look better than any form knurls I've seen. Love your videos, appreciate the knowledge
Mr. Pete I love your shop classes brings me back to my apprentice days learning from the GREATEST GENERATION. Pete what about the ( scissor Knurl ) my favorite top & bottom pressure no stress on machine and can knurl stock as long as your machine. PS. I never figure out any Diameter / Ratio calculations and made beautiful knurls. Keep It Going my friend.
Lyle - Good explanation of knurling. I agree completely that there is no rational relationship between work diameter and knurl pitch. At least in this old engineer's mind - does not make sense.
As a retired tool, die and gagemaker I've knurled lots of round hand held gages. I only had the bump style knurling tools to work with and it took a long time for me to find a way to knurl that doesn't double skip on one side. I never worried about the pitch either. I liked to start my knurl at the headstock where the part was the most rigid and use a center to keep it from pulling out of the chuck if possible. I purposely tipped my knurler at a slight angle so the edge nearest the headstock was touching and would put the lathe in neutral before I pushed the tool into the part, then I would rotate the chuck by hand so the knurl didn't have an opportunity to skip. Once I made a couple of revolutions and could see everything was tracking right, I would put it in gear and power feed it out to the tailstock. I could use either coolant from the lathe sump or brushed on oil, both worked fine.
A fix for worn valve guides in an engine was to knurl them with a drill driven knurl, as it used to be called where I worked. It looked like a modified tap that had six of eight "flutes" and would spiral in just like a tap but it did not cut metal, just moved it about while making a groove similar to a thread and decreasing the inside diameter. It had to be followed with what we called a broach. That was a shaft with a an enlarged dimension close to one end that would be driven through the guide to flatten the knurls to the proper size for the valve to fit properly. It also allowed oil down the guide and usually that is something you really don't want too much of as it will destroy the valve seat and valve face during combustion causing pitting. Both the knurling tool and the broach were piloted to keep them aligned when starting. Thank you for this video topic being covered. I feel I will kanow everything about kanurling after the next video.
I always enjoy your vids, I try to watch one every night. I really appreciated this one, I suspect my shop teacher thought the same thing about me and my knurls as you mentioned you had about others. Stay safe!
As for pitch / circumference relationship, I believe that you can usually get a good knurl if the "agreement" is anywhere close (meaning that the circumference is nearly an even multiple of the pitch). In fact it is more the reverse: if the "disagreement" is nearly perfect (that is if the circumference is nearly equal to a multiple of the pitch plus exactly 1/2 of the pitch),, then your chances of a bad knurl are much increased. Disagreement *does* mean that the knurls will be formed by pushing and displacing metal more from one side of the ridges than the other. This can result in occasional ridges or points breaking off or being weaker than they would have been with closer agreement. And it doesn't need much adjustment of the work diameter to come into agreement. For a 21 pitch (medium) knurl, the change in diameter to achieve perfect agreement will always be less than about 0.007". [(1/pitch)/π/2]
Indeed. I have found that agreement is more important when knurling on small lathes that inherently lack stiffness. I think being closer to agreement probably reduces the load and hence flex in the machine. So, I always make my knobs diameters close to the pitch diameter for knurling as actual diameter is not important for decorative or gripping surfaces.
Great video mrpete. BUT I must disagree with you about the Aloris 250-110 knurler. I cut the tongues off using a disc cutter on mine. I then put it in the mill and used carbide cutters to clean the end up & cut the tool slot all the way to the end. I even drilled and tapped 2 new set screws into the newly formed end. It makes an excellent extended tool holder and is much more use than a knurler. Most toolholders are only surface hard so not as difficult to cut as you may think. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the next in the series. ATB regards from the UK
@ 2:09 Kinder-garden Grammar... Or this side of the Pond;... Infant School... ... It is spelt with a "K" but the K is silent as in... Knife;... & many more;.. Knack. Knave. Knead. Knee. Kneel. Knell. Knickers.
Always enjoy your videos. As an old math teacher I've always used the pitch and diameter method with a bump tool. Have stopped knurling because of the bump tool. Would sure like for you to take the B&S tool apart showing all the details. Thanks for the instruction.
Thank you Mr. Pete. The more information the better. I read something about turning the part to the right size for the knurl a long time ago. That put me off knurling. I never tried it. We used to increase the size of pistons by lots of dots from a center punch, then file to the right size. No sandpaper. It would leave grit in the metal. It always worked okay.
Hello Mr. Peter. An excellent video and definitive guide on Knurly. I predominately use pinch style knurling tool when knurling. I also find the students struggle with the push in type (bump) knurler. Warm regards from downunder. Aaron.
Over the years working in the aerospace and defense industries, I can't tell you how many times I have come across the same argument of pitch and knurl. The proof is in the pudding and have never had a knurl fail due to diameter. The only issues I had as an engineer, was trying to convince DCAS inspectors otherwise. (Got written up several times for arguing with government "experts".)
Looking forward to part 2. I have the smallest Brown & Sharpe knurl tool but haven't mastered the adjustment . I have a very expensive cut knurling tool and that has an adjustment for the diameter of the work. Thanks Lyle nice presentation as always
Ah the ever elusive chase to form the perfect cylinder to be knurled. I remember forming on back in 1975 that came out perfect. It must have been that Southbend Heavy 10 I was running. Thank you Lyle I look forward to the follow up.
Thanks! Was surprised in 60's HS shop how simple the 'bump' knurl tool is. Also, looking forward to part 2, as having 2 fixed diameters seems obvious for a good pattern that repeats or causes an overlap. Good knurls are in the eye of the beholder.
I got a chuckle out of that too and also from your comment. I can see an English teacher at the head of her class saying in a very stern voice; “You there Mr. K, just sit right there in your desk and stay silent and don’t you correct me. Do you understand?”
My experience .. Never heard about the "pitch formula " untill I had made loads of perfect knurls. If it is perfect you have to hit it harder untill it is. That is why bump knurlers are a nonsense. Totally agree with you Lyle.
Hi Mr. Pete....NO HURT FEELINGS HERE! I hate those DANG Armstrong bump knurling tools too! Just about gave up on them too....put them all away in a drawer....then one day I took one out and grabbed a piece of leaded steel 1 1/4 in. dia. I had the tool on center and square to the axis of rotation. Then I rotated the knurling tool about 10-15 degrees CCW and locked it down. slowest speed in direct drive on a South Bend 10 lathe both tumblers set mid way, position C on left tumbler. With the corner of the knurling tool digging in and doing all of the work, I GOT A NEAR PERFECT KNURL EVERY TIME !...I'LL BE DANGED...AFTER ALL MY YEARS OF TEACHING MACHINE TOOL TECHNOLOY, I STUMBLED ONTO A METHOD THAT SEEMS TO WORK CONSISTENTLY....GO FIGURE !!!
Diameter isn’t important for cut knurling but is, theoretically, for form knurling if you want to form a perfect knurl. In practice, most formed knurls come out absolutely fine unless the diameter is way off and then it’s only only an issue precision work such as instrument making or watchmaking
Depending on which cutting roller you used, would you see that one line of diamonds were a bit shorter than the rest for example? If the circumference of the stock used didn't allow for equal bites of each tooth of the roller. Is that what you mean??
As for sizing, the same principle of upsetting material in order to increase diameter can, in some cases, be done with something as simple as a tubing/pipe cutter. I've used that method to improve the fit of a new wheel bearing on a spindle, where the previous bearing had seized and spun the inner race on the spindle. It was a desperation move that worked way better than I expected. At the time all I was after was a fix that would get a bearing to last for more than 10 miles, allowing me to get the car home for further repairs. It ended up lasting for the remaining life of that car, about 7 years. A few of those years involved several trips to either coast (dragged or driven) while moving trucks. One can experiment with a bit of scrap mild steel and an old, dulled, pipe or tube cutter, and look at the profile it makes under magnification, to see what happens.
Hi Mr Pete! Wondering if you can use the Brown&Sharpe knurling tools positioned 90 degrees? Hold it in a side holder for internal boring bars in the radial direction of the work piece. Then it should be possible to knurl longer parts. It should at least work at the 45 degree position of the B&S tool..
As usual I enjoyed your video. I've made good knurls and bad knurls. Some with the bump tool before I ever heard of the pinch type. i never worried about the diameter of what I was knurling. I can't for the life of me see how it would matter.
Aloha, the theory is the same as gear cutting the pitch diameter, blank diameter, and number of teeth matter, so thinking of making teeth that is why the diameter matters. BUT we are cutting material away with gear cutting so it is important there. In knurling we are upsetting (Swaging) by rolling the material into shape so the PD of the knurls are changing the diameter of the material to fit the PD of the knurling wheel. You can see this by making a very light cut by hand on your lathe if the diameter is not correct you will see overlap or underlap at the 360 degree point, but as we increase the depth of engagement we are squeezing the metal into the diameter needed for the PD of the knurls. That is a simple explanation.... it does matter but doesn't make any difference to knurls commonly used. I hope I didn't confuse you
I own a scissors type knurler it has no manufacturer name but , it produces very nice diamonds. With that type of knurler its all about adjusting the tool to the work piece, the one drawback of said tool is it is awkward to work with ( albeit I don't use it alot) but, once its lined up she produces.
I have spent my entire life calling straight knurling: "reeding" as we find on the edges of dimes and quarters. (and I am older than Mr. Pete) There is no such thing as over explaining details. The details are important to the observant. Ron W4BIN
I just did a project in hot rolled steel that was difficult. I am spoiled by aluminum. I wonder if you could cover different steels and their ease of working?
You can also shrink a bore with knurling. Worn valve guides are often knurled then reamed to bring them back into spec. It's done with a single wheel knurler that makes a spiral knurl.
True! I have some of those. Use them for engines that are not used frequently because the guides wear faster. I used mine for quick renovation of worn stone holders that are used for grinding the valve seats. Knurl and ream, next time I will use the K line inserts…
I have a die set for broaching straight knurls onto shafts. it was designed for instrument grade parts. I believe the clock/watch industry uses knurling broaches for small shafts as well.
@@TheUncleRuckus I pronounce the M in knife (Messer)! 🤦 I assure you as a native German speaker: the K in Knipex is actually pronounced quite clearly. If you say Nipex in Germany or Austria you will not be understood or looked at strangely.
@@TheUncleRuckus Look up any video on the Knipex company YT channel. They definitely pronounce the K. Also, they pronounce the i with a long e sound, so it's kuh-nee-pex. Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/p6QkcDRTtCc/v-deo.html
I hope in your next video you'll show us the scissor type &/or the parallel arm type of pinch knurler, since they are by far the most popular type in use today. Over the last year or so all the cool kids on YT have made the parallel Hemmingway Kits knurler. (I think it's an elegant piece, but needlessly complicated.) As for your bad knurls, I had a lot of trouble with one wheel double tracking, making asymmetric knurls like you showed. I was about to give up and order a new pair of wheels when I read the knurling advice in MSC's Big Book. It said to be sure the wheels are matched in diameter. I miked mine and, sure enough, they were a few thou different. So I stoned the larger one down to match its mate and got much better performance out of them. That said, I knurled two parts yesterday. One wheel double tracked on one part, and both wheels double tracked on the other. The knurling gods are mercurial. 🤥
Mr Pete I have a off subject question, its about making chips especially in the basement and, not carrying them throughout the house..i.e shoes ( i think)... have you come up with a way to mitigate chip dispersion in your house ? Signed barefoot chip finder in Flushing
Two things. Number one I sweep the floor almost constantly in the shop. Then I wipe my feet off before going upstairs. But I think the main thing is that I have an extremely tolerant wife that has never ever ever said anything about chips. Also, we only have carpeting in one room, and I would like to tear that out and burn it
I have often looked a driveshaft slip-type U-joint yokes from smaller cars (I have owned many British MGBs over the years and have tons of parts for them) and wondered if I could convert it into a pinch-type knurling tool. I have one in the "future projects drawer" I keep in my shop ... with a lot of other stuff I'll probably never get to.
The only time I knurled anything was about 1981 in HS shop. It was with the bump style and it was difficult to get a good knurl but after about 3 tries I got it.
I believe the bump knurled earned that name because you want to come in hard and fast so the second roller is forced to track the lead roller. If you feed in slow they will possibly not acquire timing and will not make a good knurl.
My cheap Chinese tool holder/knurler was not hardened as I was able to cut it off with a band saw. I use the holder with a chamfering tool to chamfer the ID of a bore.
I'm just wondering if the examples you showed of "bad knurling" were made using two different TPI knurls - possibly accidentally. That's what it looks like to me. Ever wrapped your head around Machinery's Handbook section on Knurls and Knurling?
You can see the knurling pattern ( called checkering when done on wood) on the handles of medieval swords in museums. There is a tactile advantage that is hard to duplicate using other methods and the practice persists on firearms.
For what ever it’s worth, the machineries handbook does have a formula for knurling. The Germans pronounce the K in Knipex pliers because they manufacture them. English words that begins with K are mostly silent, but there are exceptions like kink. Knurling is a great process to learn to do correctly.
You can take the knurls out of the Aloris holder and put a bearing in the top hole (or even just a solid piece of round) and you have an automatic "centering" gizmo for off axis parts.
Lyle, what is your opinion about the fellow who made (IMO) a very nice cut knurling tool for use on his mini-lathe? The little machine's bearings simply can't take the stresses applied by conventional knurling devices. FWIW, I like the man's work.
The bell has rung. Class is in session. With respect to the knurl pitch vs diameter discussion, as always, there’s a big difference between theoretical approach and practical application.
Thank You Lyle.... So I get up, make coffee, turn on this lap top, and find a new show from "mrpete222" .. I watch and I think back to my early shop days in 1971. My shop teacher talking about knurls. I so much wish I could briefly return and express how much my teachers efforts have influenced my 49 years being a machinist!!! .. LYLE I appreciate ALL YOU DO!!!..... TM
👍👍👍
Very true about that nonesense of diameters and pitches on knurls. That "B&S" knurler is great adapted to the lathe. I have several videos of adapting screw machine/ turret lathe tooling to my Logan 10" lathe.
👍👍
Mr. Pete, you know darn well that the knurl on a micrometer is there so you don't have to squeeze your water pump pliers so hard when making fine adjustments.
I am CRUSHED! You knurled me!
Your the best Lyle. I really enjoy all your instructional videos it takes me back over 50 years to my metals shop classes in High School. I wish you would put a disabled Veteran discount on a complete set of your training videos , I know I want a set. I can’t afford them separately.
Yes, I can give you a disabled discount. Let me know which ones you want and I will quote But do it through an email
Mr. Pete, that's one knarly Knurling video!
Good Morning Mr, Pete, thanks for another share of your knowledge.
Mr Pete, I greatly admire your presentation and teaching techniques. This vid could/should be used as a guide for those who want to know how to put together a teaching vid properly. I hope this day finds you well and healthy.
Thank you very very much for that kindly evaluation. It really encourages me.
Good Morning Mr Pete!!!
The Tennessee Mole Man 👍🇺🇸🍊🍊🍊
thank you Mr Pete
Perfect timing...just poured my first cup of coffee!! Thanks for all your hard work Mr.Pete! Take care.
Knice knowledge on knurling. Keep it komming
lol
MR. Pete, I wish I had you as a shop teacher back in the day! I might've actually learned something! Well, I'm learning now, so it's never too late to start, I guess. I enjoyed your teaching style, keep the videos coming! Great stuff!
Wow, thanks!
Very good video Mr Pete.See you in part 2.Thank you.
Thank you Mr Pete. I have the Armstrong with the three way head and have made good and bad knurls with it. I agree that it puts way too much stress on my old machine but that all that I have to work with and was happy to get it, but I will definitely be looking for better options. So far I have not seen anything in the wild that I could aquire.
😀
Hi Danny, search for "scissor knurling tool", there are some kits too, James from Clough42 and Quinn from Blondihacks both have youtube videos building some.
Great video Mr Pete
Hobby machinist from Kankakee. Been learning from you for years. Thanks for posting all the information. Definitely going to track down a hand knurler.
👍
The correct pronunciation of knipex is “darn-that’s-expensive”.
You got that right?
True but my cobras are hands down my go to multi-tool.
I use my mini bolt cutters for all kinds of stuff! But mainly to clip my tig wire. After 10s of thousands of cuts on stainless and harder materials they can still clip a piece of scotch tape cleanly!! May not sound impressive but if u know you know lol. Kleins and other top brands (that aren’t much cheap) could never hold up like the knipex
I was first exposed to knurling from my shop teacher Mr. Morrison at Kewanee High School by making a ball peen hammer handle. The method I learned was to keep the rollers engaged with the cut and use multiple passes back and forth by reversing the feed and increasing the depth until the desired result was achieved. It would not be a high production method but was very good for learning the process and making a great project for a budding machinist. Thanks Mr. Pete for another interesting video!
👍👍
I've wondered about the relationship between the diameter of the piece and the knurl tool wheels. Thanks for the discussion, looking forward to viewing part 2 tomorrow. I appreciate your teaching style.
Thanks
I love knurling, it looks great when executed properly and has a tremendous feeling when gripped. Nice video Tubalcain
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Mr. Pete: Never offended by your criticism of tools or techniques. Now that I have my own lathe I try to avoid unnecessary stress on working parts.
We had a family of parts a few years ago that were big on appearance so we tried cut knurling as opposed to pinch... I'm not gonna lie it was a game changer, they look better than any form knurls I've seen. Love your videos, appreciate the knowledge
👍😄😄
Brilliant presentation, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I have clamping knerler works great .great video Mr pete
Cool, thanks
Lots of great information. I enjoyed this video.
Knice video , looking forward to part 2
lol
Very interesting and informative video well done Mrpete 👍👍
Mr. Pete I love your shop classes brings me back to my apprentice days learning from the GREATEST GENERATION. Pete what about the ( scissor Knurl ) my favorite top & bottom pressure no stress on machine and can knurl stock as long as your machine. PS. I never figure out any Diameter / Ratio calculations and made beautiful knurls. Keep It Going my friend.
I need to buy one of those
Always hated knurling until I used the B&S type on a ward 2a capstan lathe - back in 1989
Thanks for another entertaining video 👍
👍👍
Can't wait for part 2, I could never get a good knurled. Thank you
Thanks Mr. Pete , I learned on bump type , didn't have pinch type in school , learned what I was missing later .😎👍
Very informative as always, thank you teacher
Thanks Mr. Pete, I was unaware of hand knurlers. In retrospect it’s an obvious implementation, like a pipe cutter. 👍
Thanks Mr. Pete for the video, Very informative!
Lyle - Good explanation of knurling. I agree completely that there is no rational relationship between work diameter and knurl pitch. At least in this old engineer's mind - does not make sense.
Yes
Your videos have inspired me to take some college courses. I’m currently taking CAMM 111
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😀
Lots of good information. I make perfect knurls. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thank you, I enjoyed your foundry video
Another excellent lesson! Thanks, Mr.Pete
I'm always amazed at how much stuff you ... K'now 😁
Not as much as you might think, lol
As a retired tool, die and gagemaker I've knurled lots of round hand held gages. I only had the bump style knurling tools to work with and it took a long time for me to find a way to knurl that doesn't double skip on one side. I never worried about the pitch either. I liked to start my knurl at the headstock where the part was the most rigid and use a center to keep it from pulling out of the chuck if possible. I purposely tipped my knurler at a slight angle so the edge nearest the headstock was touching and would put the lathe in neutral before I pushed the tool into the part, then I would rotate the chuck by hand so the knurl didn't have an opportunity to skip. Once I made a couple of revolutions and could see everything was tracking right, I would put it in gear and power feed it out to the tailstock. I could use either coolant from the lathe sump or brushed on oil, both worked fine.
Thank you for that short tutorial. Very helpful.
Great topic to cover!
BTW, everyone of your videos ends with me heading to Ebay for another purchase of something it seems😉
lol
Once again I learned something I knever knew.
A fix for worn valve guides in an engine was to knurl them with a drill driven knurl, as it used to be called where I worked. It looked like a modified tap that had six of eight "flutes" and would spiral in just like a tap but it did not cut metal, just moved it about while making a groove similar to a thread and decreasing the inside diameter. It had to be followed with what we called a broach. That was a shaft with a an enlarged dimension close to one end that would be driven through the guide to flatten the knurls to the proper size for the valve to fit properly. It also allowed oil down the guide and usually that is something you really don't want too much of as it will destroy the valve seat and valve face during combustion causing pitting. Both the knurling tool and the broach were piloted to keep them aligned when starting. Thank you for this video topic being covered. I feel I will kanow everything about kanurling after the next video.
Thanks for that information
I always enjoy your vids, I try to watch one every night. I really appreciated this one, I suspect my shop teacher thought the same thing about me and my knurls as you mentioned you had about others. Stay safe!
👍👍
As for pitch / circumference relationship, I believe that you can usually get a good knurl if the "agreement" is anywhere close (meaning that the circumference is nearly an even multiple of the pitch). In fact it is more the reverse: if the "disagreement" is nearly perfect (that is if the circumference is nearly equal to a multiple of the pitch plus exactly 1/2 of the pitch),, then your chances of a bad knurl are much increased. Disagreement *does* mean that the knurls will be formed by pushing and displacing metal more from one side of the ridges than the other. This can result in occasional ridges or points breaking off or being weaker than they would have been with closer agreement. And it doesn't need much adjustment of the work diameter to come into agreement. For a 21 pitch (medium) knurl, the change in diameter to achieve perfect agreement will always be less than about 0.007". [(1/pitch)/π/2]
Excellent explanation, cheers!
Indeed. I have found that agreement is more important when knurling on small lathes that inherently lack stiffness. I think being closer to agreement probably reduces the load and hence flex in the machine. So, I always make my knobs diameters close to the pitch diameter for knurling as actual diameter is not important for decorative or gripping surfaces.
Great video mrpete. BUT I must disagree with you about the Aloris 250-110 knurler. I cut the tongues off using a disc cutter on mine. I then put it in the mill and used carbide cutters to clean the end up & cut the tool slot all the way to the end. I even drilled and tapped 2 new set screws into the newly formed end. It makes an excellent extended tool holder and is much more use than a knurler. Most toolholders are only surface hard so not as difficult to cut as you may think. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to the next in the series. ATB regards from the UK
@ 2:09 Kinder-garden Grammar...
Or this side of the Pond;... Infant School...
...
It is spelt with a "K" but the K is silent as in...
Knife;... & many more;..
Knack.
Knave.
Knead.
Knee.
Kneel.
Knell.
Knickers.
Always enjoy your videos. As an old math teacher I've always used the pitch and diameter method with a bump tool. Have stopped knurling because of the bump tool. Would sure like for you to take the B&S tool apart showing all the details. Thanks for the instruction.
Thank you Mr. Pete. The more information the better. I read something about turning the part to the right size for the knurl a long time ago. That put me off knurling. I never tried it. We used to increase the size of pistons by lots of dots from a center punch, then file to the right size. No sandpaper. It would leave grit in the metal. It always worked okay.
Hello Mr. Peter. An excellent video and definitive guide on Knurly. I predominately use pinch style knurling tool when knurling. I also find the students struggle with the push in type (bump) knurler. Warm regards from downunder. Aaron.
😀😀
Fascinating talk on this. Anxious to see the process in action. I don't have the equipment but would love to be able to make my own knurled knobs.
Over the years working in the aerospace and defense industries, I can't tell you how many times I have come across the same argument of pitch and knurl. The proof is in the pudding and have never had a knurl fail due to diameter. The only issues I had as an engineer, was trying to convince DCAS inspectors otherwise. (Got written up several times for arguing with government "experts".)
Looking forward to part 2. I have the smallest Brown & Sharpe knurl tool but haven't mastered the adjustment . I have a very expensive cut knurling tool and that has an adjustment for the diameter of the work. Thanks Lyle nice presentation as always
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The Williams revolver here makes perfect knurls everytime! KIDDING.
No it doesn't. More spiral than Knurl.
Looking forward to part 2!
Ah the ever elusive chase to form the perfect cylinder to be knurled. I remember forming on back in 1975 that came out perfect. It must have been that Southbend Heavy 10 I was running. Thank you Lyle I look forward to the follow up.
Thanks! Was surprised in 60's HS shop how simple the 'bump' knurl tool is. Also, looking forward to part 2, as having 2 fixed diameters seems obvious for a good pattern that repeats or causes an overlap. Good knurls are in the eye of the beholder.
Mr Pete I laughed when you enunciated the k in knurle my English teacher said it would be silent 😂😂😂
lol
I got a chuckle out of that too and also from your comment. I can see an English teacher at the head of her class saying in a very stern voice; “You there Mr. K, just sit right there in your desk and stay silent and don’t you correct me. Do you understand?”
Used to knurl valve guides in cylinder heads. Piston skirts were knurled to reduce friction in the bore. Especially on race engines.
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I used to turn the diameter slightly undersize to get the final size .knurling makes the diameter grow and the pitch is controlled by the rollers
My experience ..
Never heard about the "pitch formula " untill I had made loads of perfect knurls.
If it is perfect you have to hit it harder untill it is.
That is why bump knurlers are a nonsense.
Totally agree with you Lyle.
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Hi Mr. Pete....NO HURT FEELINGS HERE! I hate those DANG Armstrong bump knurling tools too! Just about gave up on them too....put them all away in a drawer....then one day I took one out and grabbed a piece of leaded steel 1 1/4 in. dia. I had the tool on center and square to the axis of rotation. Then I rotated the knurling tool about 10-15 degrees CCW and locked it down. slowest speed in direct drive on a South Bend 10 lathe both tumblers set mid way, position C on left tumbler. With the corner of the knurling tool digging in and doing all of the work, I GOT A NEAR PERFECT KNURL EVERY TIME !...I'LL BE DANGED...AFTER ALL MY YEARS OF TEACHING MACHINE TOOL TECHNOLOY, I STUMBLED ONTO A METHOD THAT SEEMS TO WORK CONSISTENTLY....GO FIGURE !!!
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Thanks for sharing.
Diameter isn’t important for cut knurling but is, theoretically, for form knurling if you want to form a perfect knurl. In practice, most formed knurls come out absolutely fine unless the diameter is way off and then it’s only only an issue precision work such as instrument making or watchmaking
Thanks
Depending on which cutting roller you used, would you see that one line of diamonds were a bit shorter than the rest for example? If the circumference of the stock used didn't allow for equal bites of each tooth of the roller. Is that what you mean??
I like my scissors knurler the best, fast and no pressure exerted on the lathe.
I would be interested in buying your Knurlmaster hand knurler. Since you haven't used it in at least a decade, you probably wouldn't miss it.
As for sizing, the same principle of upsetting material in order to increase diameter can, in some cases, be done with something as simple as a tubing/pipe cutter. I've used that method to improve the fit of a new wheel bearing on a spindle, where the previous bearing had seized and spun the inner race on the spindle.
It was a desperation move that worked way better than I expected. At the time all I was after was a fix that would get a bearing to last for more than 10 miles, allowing me to get the car home for further repairs. It ended up lasting for the remaining life of that car, about 7 years. A few of those years involved several trips to either coast (dragged or driven) while moving trucks.
One can experiment with a bit of scrap mild steel and an old, dulled, pipe or tube cutter, and look at the profile it makes under magnification, to see what happens.
Thank you, that was very interesting
Hi Mr Pete! Wondering if you can use the Brown&Sharpe knurling tools positioned 90 degrees? Hold it in a side holder for internal boring bars in the radial direction of the work piece. Then it should be possible to knurl longer parts. It should at least work at the 45 degree position of the B&S tool..
Never thought of it, that might be a possibility
I hope you could disassemble one of your pinch-type knurling tools so we can see how it works. How about a vid series on building one?
As usual I enjoyed your video. I've made good knurls and bad knurls. Some with the bump tool before I ever heard of the pinch type. i never worried about the diameter of what I was knurling. I can't for the life of me see how it would matter.
Aloha, the theory is the same as gear cutting the pitch diameter, blank diameter, and number of teeth matter, so thinking of making teeth that is why the diameter matters. BUT we are cutting material away with gear cutting so it is important there. In knurling we are upsetting (Swaging) by rolling the material into shape so the PD of the knurls are changing the diameter of the material to fit the PD of the knurling wheel. You can see this by making a very light cut by hand on your lathe if the diameter is not correct you will see overlap or underlap at the 360 degree point, but as we increase the depth of engagement we are squeezing the metal into the diameter needed for the PD of the knurls. That is a simple explanation.... it does matter but doesn't make any difference to knurls commonly used. I hope I didn't confuse you
Rất yêu mến bác,tuy bác cao tuổi nhưng vẫn còn rất minh mẫn và khỏe mạnh 💪💪
I own a scissors type knurler it has no manufacturer name but , it produces very nice diamonds. With that type of knurler its all about adjusting the tool to the work piece, the one drawback of said tool is it is awkward to work with ( albeit I don't use it alot) but, once its lined up she produces.
Thank you, I would like to buy one of those
I have spent my entire life calling straight knurling: "reeding" as we find on the edges of dimes and quarters. (and I am older than Mr. Pete) There is no such thing as over explaining details. The details are important to the observant. Ron W4BIN
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I just did a project in hot rolled steel that was difficult. I am spoiled by aluminum. I wonder if you could cover different steels and their ease of working?
You can also shrink a bore with knurling. Worn valve guides are often knurled then reamed to bring them back into spec. It's done with a single wheel knurler that makes a spiral knurl.
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True! I have some of those. Use them for engines that are not used frequently because the guides wear faster. I used mine for quick renovation of worn stone holders that are used for grinding the valve seats. Knurl and ream, next time I will use the K line inserts…
I like the bump type because they can do large diameter stock.
Knurled for your pleasure, The French Knurler. If it was in a vending machine in a gas station bathroom or the public bathroom at a fishing pier.
I think I saw that in an old Texaco gas station
I have a die set for broaching straight knurls onto shafts. it was designed for instrument grade parts. I believe the clock/watch industry uses knurling broaches for small shafts as well.
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Knipex is Knipex and not nipex because its a german brand, (k)nurl is nurl becaus its english, in german knurling is rändeln
I second that.
I suppose you pronounce the K in knife? 🤦
I've never once heard a German speaker pronounce the K in Knipex and I watch a lot of them on youtube.
TPAI does, and I would trust the german commenters on here as well. I know of no german words with silent K:s
@@TheUncleRuckus I pronounce the M in knife (Messer)! 🤦
I assure you as a native German speaker: the K in Knipex is actually pronounced quite clearly. If you say Nipex in Germany or Austria you will not be understood or looked at strangely.
@@TheUncleRuckus Look up any video on the Knipex company YT channel. They definitely pronounce the K. Also, they pronounce the i with a long e sound, so it's kuh-nee-pex. Here's an example:
ua-cam.com/video/p6QkcDRTtCc/v-deo.html
I hope in your next video you'll show us the scissor type &/or the parallel arm type of pinch knurler, since they are by far the most popular type in use today. Over the last year or so all the cool kids on YT have made the parallel Hemmingway Kits knurler. (I think it's an elegant piece, but needlessly complicated.)
As for your bad knurls, I had a lot of trouble with one wheel double tracking, making asymmetric knurls like you showed. I was about to give up and order a new pair of wheels when I read the knurling advice in MSC's Big Book. It said to be sure the wheels are matched in diameter. I miked mine and, sure enough, they were a few thou different. So I stoned the larger one down to match its mate and got much better performance out of them. That said, I knurled two parts yesterday. One wheel double tracked on one part, and both wheels double tracked on the other. The knurling gods are mercurial. 🤥
As a project, do you think it's feasible to make one one using a driveshaft slip yoke as the base component?
I think it is feasible in fact, I would like to try it. But it would have to be a small one off of a compact vehicle.
Thanks for the video
Mr Pete I have a off subject question, its about making chips especially in the basement and, not carrying them throughout the house..i.e shoes ( i think)... have you come up with a way to mitigate chip dispersion in your house ? Signed barefoot chip finder in Flushing
Dedicated shop shoes that stay in the shop.
Two things. Number one I sweep the floor almost constantly in the shop. Then I wipe my feet off before going upstairs. But I think the main thing is that I have an extremely tolerant wife that has never ever ever said anything about chips. Also, we only have carpeting in one room, and I would like to tear that out and burn it
@@mrpete222 I LOATHE carpeting I believe 99.99999% of allergen issues comes from carpet , you can never get them clean!
I have often looked a driveshaft slip-type U-joint yokes from smaller cars (I have owned many British MGBs over the years and have tons of parts for them) and wondered if I could convert it into a pinch-type knurling tool. I have one in the "future projects drawer" I keep in my shop ... with a lot of other stuff I'll probably never get to.
That is a good idea, I bet it could be done. I will take that under advisement, might do it myself. But it would probably be fairly difficult.
Sounds like a good plan. Some steering shafts and farm equipment also have small U-joints that might be a good starting point.
“Now I’m gonna talk a little, actually a lot…” 😂 -Mr Pete “the GOAT”
The only time I knurled anything was about 1981 in HS shop. It was with the bump style and it was difficult to get a good knurl but after about 3 tries I got it.
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Interesting.
I believe the bump knurled earned that name because you want to come in hard and fast so the second roller is forced to track the lead roller. If you feed in slow they will possibly not acquire timing and will not make a good knurl.
How do you get a knurl on a “flat”
My cheap Chinese tool holder/knurler was not hardened as I was able to cut it off with a band saw. I use the holder with a chamfering tool to chamfer the ID of a bore.
I'm just wondering if the examples you showed of "bad knurling" were made using two different TPI knurls - possibly accidentally. That's what it looks like to me.
Ever wrapped your head around Machinery's Handbook section on Knurls and Knurling?
I will look that up in the handbook
You can see the knurling pattern ( called checkering when done on wood) on the handles of medieval swords in museums. There is a tactile advantage that is hard to duplicate using other methods and the practice persists on firearms.
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For what ever it’s worth, the machineries handbook does have a formula for knurling. The Germans pronounce the K in Knipex pliers because they manufacture them. English words that begins with K are mostly silent, but there are exceptions like kink. Knurling is a great process to learn to do correctly.
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You can take the knurls out of the Aloris holder and put a bearing in the top hole (or even just a solid piece of round) and you have an automatic "centering" gizmo for off axis parts.
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Lyle, what is your opinion about the fellow who made (IMO) a very nice cut knurling tool for use on his mini-lathe? The little machine's bearings simply can't take the stresses applied by conventional knurling devices. FWIW, I like the man's work.
I want to do it.
At 4:51. Lyle missed the most obvious use of a knurl. It provides an excellent topic for an internet shop teacher's multi-part class.
If someone gets their feelings hurt, it's because they had them hanging out to far!!!
The bell has rung. Class is in session. With respect to the knurl pitch vs diameter discussion, as always, there’s a big difference between theoretical approach and practical application.
Thank you sir.