Surprised you didn’t mention that the San Francisco Giants had signed an agreement to move there in in 1992. Amazing to think about now but the Giants were in a similar situation as the A’s in 92. The A’s were averaging 30,000 a game and the Giants were struggling at 19,000. They’d had 4 failed stadium referendums voted down over the years. The NL denied the move and the Giants were sold to Peter McGowan who 100% financed his own stadium (imagine that). Not only that but baseball took a LOWER offer from McGowan than what was being offered in Tampa Bay $100M as opposed to $110M (imagine that). MLB actually did the right thing for a change instead of just making a pure money decision (imagine that). Of course MLB actually had a competent commissioner back then in Fay Vincent. Also, there was NO STADIUM on the horizon when McGowan bought the team, they were STILL stuck in decrepit, multi purpose Candlestick Park(any of this sound familiar) while Tampa already had a park in place and they still kept the team in San Francisco until they finally got a beautiful waterfront ball park (where have I heard all this before) by just waiting it out. Gee MLB, do you still wish the Giants had moved?
That decision is part of why the A's are moving. MLB gave San Jose to the Giants as part of their area. It had been the A's. The Giants wouldn't allow the A's to build a stadium in San Jose.
@@jahanas22 MLB didn't give them San Jose, the A's gave it to them in the first place. There error was not taking it back when the Giants didn't move to San Jose. It actually was a joint area until the Giants were granted permission to move to San Jose when they were exploring it. After that The Giants put effort into that area, the A's have not. MLB upheld the rights because they didn't want it to become a habit of other teams moving at will to other areas. MLB would have faced a huge legal claim from the Giants, like they still have with Bal for moving the Expos into DC. Had the A's granted a limited time to explore a move they may have been able to retain the rights. A's should have been more careful about giving up that area. Some fault is on the A's. As as result of the lawsuit from San Jose the A's don't have to pay any relocation fee's which was part of the settlement that came out of that. To be honest the A's are much better off in Las Vegas or even Nashville if Vegas falls through. Oakland has no money, no place to build and even a new stadium will not fix the fact that they will not get any larger of a TV deal The money just is not there.
To be fair again the difference was the Giants were being sold at the time, the A's are not. MLB knew there was a local buyer before the vote even took place, they just forced Luri to take a slightly less deal. He knew that MLB was not going to approve the sale to the Tampa Bay group when there was a generally good workable local buyer. The other point is McGowan had proposed a new ball park with private money in the deal, he told MLB he intended to build a new park with private money. He had already been scouting locations when he was investigating buying the Giants. There had been talk about 3rd and Townsend location and a couple other right before the deal was made. Problem with the A's is there simple is no place to build. The proposal at HT is just not feasible. The Port of Oakland which owns the land never has agreed to anything. the City and the A's had been talking but the Port had not been involved. They were planning a building on land they don't own. It was a farce IMO.
The Rays attendance won't get any better wherever they move. The era were people were okay with teams moving is dead. The era were tax payers will waste money to attract a team is dead. Also the Pyamid stadium was actually purposed by the Rays themselves. St Pete is also one of the fastest growing metro areas. Lots of homes are planned to be built on the current stadium site. The team needs to inspire fans to come, and not be so cheap or traitorious. The plan they put forward, if it goes through would be a nice sign of good will to the community. Also given all the spring training teams, and other attractions, plus summer heat, nowhere in Florida is going to be good for a regular season team. They need to play in the winter and spring months when it's cool and low humitity not during the height of summer, when even staidums up north are unbarable due to the heat. The St. Pete Rays better stay or their will be hell to pay.
We cannot play in an open air stadium. In the Bay area, it literally rains every day in the summer. It's the lightning capital of the country. 100% humidity with highs in the upper 90s is normal. The expense of a retractable roof just isn't justifiable if that roof is opened 5 games a year. Windows like in Miami are one thing, but the retractable roof will just be a huge unnecessary expense.
One of my favorite times of year is the start of the Indycar season, and that's on the streets of St. Petersburg, in March, and it's beautiful. There's a reason FLA was only known for spring training before the Marlins were the first MLB team to arrive. Years ago (YEARS) I was in Tampa watching my friends brother play the single A Tampa Yankees (he played for the Port Charlotte Rangers). There must have been only 100 people at that game, I'm not exaggerating, mostly family and friends, hardly any fans, it was sad.
The Tampa Bay Lightning played their first season at the Expo Hall at the Florida State Fairgrounds, just east of downtown Tampa. Then they played the next two seasons at the Trop, yhen called the Thunderdome.
What I don't understand is, the Lightning always had big crowds there. The Trop seated 28,000 for hockey. I never heard their fans complain. The Rays have always been a good baseball team, but nobody wants to go to The Trop to see them.
the problem with the Trop is not the stadium itself, it's the location, the Rays either need to get a new stadium that's actually in the city of Tampa or they are doomed
If the Rays had a better stadium it might be a start. The Rays have been a good team and contender for several years now going back to 2008. So I don't think it would have the same problems the Marluns had after building a bew stadium.
What really sucks for Tampa is even when they are contenders they don’t draw well. Up until the Guardians blew everything up this year, I think average attendance this year was as closer to 23,000 with a lot of games drawing a lot more than I have seen in their crappy years
Could be. I'm not convinced that tourists will stop gambling, hooking up and going to brothels long enough to work in a baseball game. I believe they should have built it in the suburbs and marketed it to locals, but the politicians and the owner want the glamor of being on the strip.
my guess is that the rays move to orlando because it just seems like whatever they come up with in tampa they just seem to make it work & i doubt mlb would approve another stadium in st. pete. just think with the average attendance you mentioned that miami averages is just enough to fill the triple a stadium in buffalo from your video the day
I think both the Rays and Marlins have proven that Florida can't support teams despite the population. The Rays might've done better if they didn't have a horrible stadium in a horrible location but I think that MLB didn't give the market its due diligence.
The Marlins have shown in their history that they have the capability to draw upwards of 3 million, 1993 and in 94 they were well on their way, as with most of MLB, attendance dropped but around 97 Marlins attendance began to increase, than ownership began their annual tear downs, the 2017 WBC has shown Miami has the capability of drawing, Tampa Bay on the other hand has always been a waste, compared to Miami which drew 3 million plus in their first campaign, the Rays couldn’t draw over 2.8 million and have never drawn over 2 million since 98, even with the fact that since 08 for the most part they’ve been a model organization, Florida is a one team market and that’s Miami, the 98 AL expansion should’ve went to Charlotte or Buffalo who had a stadium in the waiting.
@@GeraldM_inNC in my opinion the Rays do not draw because of the Tampa Bay Area population and where alot of transplants are from, the Rays draw decently when teams like Boston, New York and maybe Baltimore come in but when other opponents who’s team doesn’t originate in the NE where many Tampa Bay transplants come from, the Rays don’t draw as well because the fans don’t have that much of an interest for the Rays and teams that are not from the area they are from, I also believe location and traffic is a factor but not the deciding factor as a team as good as the Rays should be able to break 2 million, traffic and location be damned, it also comes down to the fact that many other teams have had their flags planted in the Tampa Bay Area and surrounding areas for decades with spring training, those fanbases are entrenched due to spring training, the Rays have an uphill climb against those entrenched fan bases especially competing with the Yankee’s and other teams who practice in Florida and have been in the area longer than the Rays.
Sadly, The Rays have more than ballpark issues. Yes, they play in a toilet with the lid down. Yes, it’s in a poor location.. it should be in Tampa (but let’s face it.. St. Pete built it.. Tampa did not… Tampa dropped the ball on that one).. but the biggest problem the Rays have… Tampa has been home to the Yankees spring training home… the area and tampa itself are Yankee fans. That is the biggest reason why even when being a winning team.. they don’t draw. (well, until the Yanks come to town). The A’s want to blame their stadium on their problems… but the real problem is the team on the field sucks. When they were a winner, their stadium was full (see early 90’s) but since then.. They’ve not really tried. The Rays sucked in the early years.. expansion teams will do that.. but they are now perennially at or near the top of their division every year.. but still don’t draw.. why? Shitty stadium in a poor location (but still not that bad) in the middle of a hotbed of fans of their biggest rival. The Rays will never draw in the Tampa/St. Pete area. Hell, the Buffalo AAA team probably outdraws them most years. The Rays need to move… The A’s need to spend more than the QB for the Chiefs makes in a year and actually field a quality team.. Oakland isn’t helping them because the city and state knows.. the team is not going to win ANYWHERE unless they change their ways.. a new stadium won’t change that. The Rays.. it might.. but the biggest problem is.. the Yanks are a bigger draw in their City than the Rays will ever be.
Same here. Food was less expensive than other parks. I appreciated that. Sometimes you just want to watch a good baseball team and eat a reasonably priced hotdog. Wasn't a bad experience at all. I was on vacation though. I can see where it would be a headache for someone from the Tampa side to fight rush hour traffic to get to the other side of the bay.
@@mj6493 my parents moved down to the Fort Myers area, I went down to see them and the Orioles (my team) was in town so we drove up. The refills on drinks help too. Since my dad is in his 70s the park was perfect for him plenty of shade and it was cool. Orioles ended up winning and well they’re in first now
So pleased to see how wrong you are. They are staying in Saint Pete and building a new stadium on the same property. Amazing how that works. So much bloviating.
There’s no rail service between Tampa and St Pete. CSX wants 800 million for the Clearwater subdivision. Pinellas County won’t do it. I hope Ybor happens but again no rail service. Who wants to have a couple beers then try to drive on 275?
Their attendance apparently got very bad after the 94 strike though they never were that successful in Montreal anyway. I have also heard, (though take this with a grain of salt because I didn’t exist for most of their tenure) that many said the language barrier and French culture not being used to baseball may have played a role in their failure to build a contending team and fanbase. I also heard Olympic Stadium was pretty bad too.
The narrative of many of the Ray's fans are that they don't play in Tampa... I don't think it even matters... maybe they get 5000 more fans if they move to Tampa. Still not good enough after having such a good team for many years. Yankee and Dodgers fans commute far as well to see their teams play. Tampa is not a good MLB market.
@breadandcircuses8127 First of all... St. Pete is in the Tampa region. Rays have been good for over a decade and no one seemed to cared... also probably no sell out games. Tampa is a city with a lot of retirees... they need young fans who care like they support the Lightning and Bucaneers. Fans in New York travel out of their way to the Bronx. I bet you have no idea what the Bronx looks like right? It's not exactly a place full of palm trees and ocean. The Yankees have more fans in the Tampa region... even their minor league team is in the region and draws better attendance. A new stadium would be like the new Miami Marlins stadium... no one cares enough to buy tickets and they even won 2 world series. Would you be willing with another 25000 fans to put money down on season tickets to show MLB that you will support a new stadium in Tampa?
@saltbae865 tampa is a good market but commuting and get to the stadium is super tough if you don't already live in St. Pete, it's not super accessible
@@chancecherry6055 There are plenty of markets like this all over North America where fans have to go out of their way to watch a game. Many teams have built stadiums in smaller towns or on the other side of a city due to building costs and accessible land. It will continue... like the Chicago Bears most recently looking to move to a horse racing track with no public transportation. Atlanta Braves moved to a small community outside of the city. What about outside downtown core stadiums for the Texas Rangers, New York Yankees, LA Dodgers, KC Royals? What assurance do you have you will get 30000 a game by moving to Tampa? Okay let's say the Ray's agree with your vision... what excuse will you have if the attendance doesn't improve? Do you want to be the billionaire investing in this move to Tampa or would move to another market?
@@saltbae865you sound like you have no idea the money or burden it puts on the average Floridian to drive from the inner countryside or suburbs of the tamp bay region and get to downtown st pete. If the rays were smart they’d build a stadium right next to the hard rock casino in the State Fair grounds where’s there’s alreaady plenty of parking, space to build, not far from schools and neighborhoods that would easily make the trip.
The Rays wouldn’t be in this conversation if they were in Tampa proper from the beginning. It’s not the team, organization, ownership, or even the Trop itself. St. Pete is just a pain to get in and out of. The Diamondbacks and Marlins were worse expansion team ideas.
Diamondbacks won the World Series in 2001, and the Marlins have won two World Series. Both metro areas are in the top 12 most populous in the USA, yet there are 30 teams, so each has a population base greater than at least 60% of MLB teams, including every team in the two Central Divisions outside Chicago (which is losing population, many moving to FL and AZ). Look at population data. How could they be bad expansion choices?
After failing to lure the ChiSox, the group controlling the Trop had a deal to lure the Giants from San Francisco...but MLB owners voted it down The Rays need to be IN TAMPA, not St Pete Maybe Floridians just don't care for baseball
While nothing you said was false or irrelevant, you failed to mention some of the most important factors. First, in calculating the demographic demand they treated seniors just like anyone else. Seniors don't attend sports events. They may follow a team on TV but they won't go in person. When you're 70 you will understand why. Second, Manfred is demanding a minimum of 300 million kicked in by the city towards a stadium, and Sternberg is demanding at least 500 million. Tampa can't raise more than 100 million. Evidently Orlando has the money Sternberg is demanding. Third, the politicians in Nashville are pledged to no further spending public money on sports stadiums. In fact, no city except Orlando is willing to build a stadium for Sternberg.
. To be fair the team is very good and has had some good teams. The sole issue is the location in Tampa Bay, it just does not draw the walk up ticket sales which is why weekday games are so poor. They would be better off in Orlando downtown someplace.
Ok so I lived in the Tampa Bay area and was in High school when they built it you should go back to when they were going to build this stadium because as I remember they had people living in the area who didn't want this built and as I remember could be wrong but I believe they bought or for-close on people's home
I wonder what would happen if the Rays (or the city) would tear off the roof, including the wall. (If doable.) Would more people attend the games at an open-air stadium?
Don't see The Rays getting a stadium in Tampa. The whole region does not like Sternberg the owner. Tampa or St. Pete cannot get Sternberg to commit to what % he is willing to pay. Most people including me was not happy that we paid for Legends Field(Yankees Minor League team next to Raymond James). We paid for Raymond James Stadium and we paid for T. B. Bucs workout facility. Also USF has been treated poorly by the Bucs ownership in parking, ticket sales and concessions through the years. In a stadium that we gave them. Cheap A** Sternberg will try to force either Orlando or Nashville to pay for the relocation fees. I love the Rays but do not want to pay higher taxes to keep them. The Commissioners have already tapped out the motel tax and other tourist tax this century.
Also it has to be voted on during the General Election. We wanted Jeffrey Vinik(T.B. Lightning owner)to purchase the team if it was for sale. He said no. I would vote yes if he were the owner. H e is beloved. Top owner in all of sports.
Went to 2 games there around 20 years ago while on vacation in Bradenton. Didnt feel like a baseball stadium. Weird vibe. The surrounding area wasn't very nice. Not sure if its still like that. We got 2nd row seats for $50.
The Rays are doomed to never build a fan base because of it being the retirement capital of the world. There will always be more Yankees, Red Sox, and Orioles fans in the St. Petersburg area.
Still won't help them... the team could be good but residents don't care enough like the NHL team or football. Yankee and Dodgers fans also commute far but support their team regardless the distance. You build a stadium in Tampa... maybe 5000 more fans... just another Marlins situation with their new stadium.
In 1958, when Dodgers moved to LA, most people living in California at that time had moved to California from somewhere else, so many had grown up as fans of other MLB teams. However, most people in greater LA area became Dodger fans.
Biggest failed? I’d say one of the AL’s most consistent teams who has made multiple trips to the World Series isn’t the biggest failure. Not when there was an expansion team that damn near went bankrupt in Year 1 and moved to another city for year 2. I always enjoy your content, but they’re far from the biggest failed expansion project.
Think the whole Wander Franco debacle means the Rays likely won't have another contract more than 5 years 40 million for a decade or more regardless of who it is
Well despite the 2 World Series wins I still think the Ray's franchise is way better than the Marlins! Marlins ownership overall is a complete joke compared to Ray's ownership.
As you said though, the Marlins do have two World Series wins, and they won both in their first 10 years of existence. That’s much more successful than the Rays who still have none.
@chepelatino- trade the marlins not the rays. I actually think if you get the rays to tampa or orlando they would do well. shockingly miami has not been a good market.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
Surprised you didn’t mention that the San Francisco Giants had signed an agreement to move there in in 1992. Amazing to think about now but the Giants were in a similar situation as the A’s in 92. The A’s were averaging 30,000 a game and the Giants were struggling at 19,000. They’d had 4 failed stadium referendums voted down over the years. The NL denied the move and the Giants were sold to Peter McGowan who 100% financed his own stadium (imagine that). Not only that but baseball took a LOWER offer from McGowan than what was being offered in Tampa Bay $100M as opposed to $110M (imagine that). MLB actually did the right thing for a change instead of just making a pure money decision (imagine that). Of course MLB actually had a competent commissioner back then in Fay Vincent. Also, there was NO STADIUM on the horizon when McGowan bought the team, they were STILL stuck in decrepit, multi purpose Candlestick Park(any of this sound familiar) while Tampa already had a park in place and they still kept the team in San Francisco until they finally got a beautiful waterfront ball park (where have I heard all this before) by just waiting it out. Gee MLB, do you still wish the Giants had moved?
That decision is part of why the A's are moving. MLB gave San Jose to the Giants as part of their area. It had been the A's. The Giants wouldn't allow the A's to build a stadium in San Jose.
@@jahanas22 MLB didn't give them San Jose, the A's gave it to them in the first place. There error was not taking it back when the Giants didn't move to San Jose. It actually was a joint area until the Giants were granted permission to move to San Jose when they were exploring it. After that The Giants put effort into that area, the A's have not. MLB upheld the rights because they didn't want it to become a habit of other teams moving at will to other areas. MLB would have faced a huge legal claim from the Giants, like they still have with Bal for moving the Expos into DC. Had the A's granted a limited time to explore a move they may have been able to retain the rights. A's should have been more careful about giving up that area. Some fault is on the A's. As as result of the lawsuit from San Jose the A's don't have to pay any relocation fee's which was part of the settlement that came out of that. To be honest the A's are much better off in Las Vegas or even Nashville if Vegas falls through. Oakland has no money, no place to build and even a new stadium will not fix the fact that they will not get any larger of a TV deal The money just is not there.
To be fair again the difference was the Giants were being sold at the time, the A's are not. MLB knew there was a local buyer before the vote even took place, they just forced Luri to take a slightly less deal. He knew that MLB was not going to approve the sale to the Tampa Bay group when there was a generally good workable local buyer. The other point is McGowan had proposed a new ball park with private money in the deal, he told MLB he intended to build a new park with private money. He had already been scouting locations when he was investigating buying the Giants. There had been talk about 3rd and Townsend location and a couple other right before the deal was made. Problem with the A's is there simple is no place to build. The proposal at HT is just not feasible. The Port of Oakland which owns the land never has agreed to anything. the City and the A's had been talking but the Port had not been involved. They were planning a building on land they don't own. It was a farce IMO.
JUST TO BE CLEAR
"Tampa Bay" includes both St Petersburg and Tampa
They've lasted a lot longer than the Seattle Pilots.
Facts
No shit
Who????
@@horacepollard368 Seattles first mlb team (now the brewers) basically they don’t exist anymore because of Kansas
The aquatic mosaic on the walk-way in, with all the palm trees is a nice vibe. Also, no one ever mentions all the great parking this stadium offers ;)
As a former resident of the TB area, St Petersburg is PART of the Tampa Bay area. Please make sure to have your facts correct.
FYI- St Petersburg is a part of the Tampa Bay region.
The Rays attendance won't get any better wherever they move. The era were people were okay with teams moving is dead. The era were tax payers will waste money to attract a team is dead.
Also the Pyamid stadium was actually purposed by the Rays themselves. St Pete is also one of the fastest growing metro areas. Lots of homes are planned to be built on the current stadium site. The team needs to inspire fans to come, and not be so cheap or traitorious. The plan they put forward, if it goes through would be a nice sign of good will to the community.
Also given all the spring training teams, and other attractions, plus summer heat, nowhere in Florida is going to be good for a regular season team. They need to play in the winter and spring months when it's cool and low humitity not during the height of summer, when even staidums up north are unbarable due to the heat.
The St. Pete Rays better stay or their will be hell to pay.
Thank you, This comment is perfect!!
I'm so glad they stayed
We cannot play in an open air stadium. In the Bay area, it literally rains every day in the summer. It's the lightning capital of the country. 100% humidity with highs in the upper 90s is normal. The expense of a retractable roof just isn't justifiable if that roof is opened 5 games a year. Windows like in Miami are one thing, but the retractable roof will just be a huge unnecessary expense.
One of my favorite times of year is the start of the Indycar season, and that's on the streets of St. Petersburg, in March, and it's beautiful. There's a reason FLA was only known for spring training before the Marlins were the first MLB team to arrive. Years ago (YEARS) I was in Tampa watching my friends brother play the single A Tampa Yankees (he played for the Port Charlotte Rangers). There must have been only 100 people at that game, I'm not exaggerating, mostly family and friends, hardly any fans, it was sad.
The Tampa Bay Lightning played their first season at the Expo Hall at the Florida State Fairgrounds, just east of downtown Tampa. Then they played the next two seasons at the Trop, yhen called the Thunderdome.
It was called the Thunderdome again in 2020 when WWE used it to do their shows during the pandemic.
What I don't understand is, the Lightning always had big crowds there. The Trop seated 28,000 for hockey. I never heard their fans complain. The Rays have always been a good baseball team, but nobody wants to go to The Trop to see them.
the problem with the Trop is not the stadium itself, it's the location, the Rays either need to get a new stadium that's actually in the city of Tampa or they are doomed
MLB has so many headwinds in the next few years and the Rays are just one example. I'm surprised the lockout didn't cancel this season.
After the disaster of the 94 strike no way
If the Rays had a better stadium it might be a start. The Rays have been a good team and contender for several years now going back to 2008. So I don't think it would have the same problems the Marluns had after building a bew stadium.
Would not help
What really sucks for Tampa is even when they are contenders they don’t draw well. Up until the Guardians blew everything up this year, I think average attendance this year was as closer to 23,000 with a lot of games drawing a lot more than I have seen in their crappy years
If Oakland builds a stadium it will end up exactly like the Marlins, they will continue to be in the bottom of attendance.
Same like Tampa.
Could be. I'm not convinced that tourists will stop gambling, hooking up and going to brothels long enough to work in a baseball game. I believe they should have built it in the suburbs and marketed it to locals, but the politicians and the owner want the glamor of being on the strip.
my guess is that the rays move to orlando because it just seems like whatever they come up with in tampa they just seem to make it work & i doubt mlb would approve another stadium in st. pete. just think with the average attendance you mentioned that miami averages is just enough to fill the triple a stadium in buffalo from your video the day
St.Pete is Tampa Bay. The bay is everything that’s surrounding the water. Tampa is just Tampa
The Left field upper deck has natural light.
Goat
I think both the Rays and Marlins have proven that Florida can't support teams despite the population. The Rays might've done better if they didn't have a horrible stadium in a horrible location but I think that MLB didn't give the market its due diligence.
MLB counted heads in Florida instead of counting the average age. Seniors don't attend baseball games.
The Marlins have shown in their history that they have the capability to draw upwards of 3 million, 1993 and in 94 they were well on their way, as with most of MLB, attendance dropped but around 97 Marlins attendance began to increase, than ownership began their annual tear downs, the 2017 WBC has shown Miami has the capability of drawing, Tampa Bay on the other hand has always been a waste, compared to Miami which drew 3 million plus in their first campaign, the Rays couldn’t draw over 2.8 million and have never drawn over 2 million since 98, even with the fact that since 08 for the most part they’ve been a model organization, Florida is a one team market and that’s Miami, the 98 AL expansion should’ve went to Charlotte or Buffalo who had a stadium in the waiting.
@@richiemartinez8078 Do you have an explanation why they don't draw? They've been a much improved team the last few years.
@@GeraldM_inNC in my opinion the Rays do not draw because of the Tampa Bay Area population and where alot of transplants are from, the Rays draw decently when teams like Boston, New York and maybe Baltimore come in but when other opponents who’s team doesn’t originate in the NE where many Tampa Bay transplants come from, the Rays don’t draw as well because the fans don’t have that much of an interest for the Rays and teams that are not from the area they are from, I also believe location and traffic is a factor but not the deciding factor as a team as good as the Rays should be able to break 2 million, traffic and location be damned, it also comes down to the fact that many other teams have had their flags planted in the Tampa Bay Area and surrounding areas for decades with spring training, those fanbases are entrenched due to spring training, the Rays have an uphill climb against those entrenched fan bases especially competing with the Yankee’s and other teams who practice in Florida and have been in the area longer than the Rays.
Marlins have had more success though, winning two World Series
Re: No natural sun, can never lose a fly ball to looking into the sun here. 🤷🏼♀️
Sadly, The Rays have more than ballpark issues. Yes, they play in a toilet with the lid down. Yes, it’s in a poor location.. it should be in Tampa (but let’s face it.. St. Pete built it.. Tampa did not… Tampa dropped the ball on that one).. but the biggest problem the Rays have… Tampa has been home to the Yankees spring training home… the area and tampa itself are Yankee fans. That is the biggest reason why even when being a winning team.. they don’t draw. (well, until the Yanks come to town). The A’s want to blame their stadium on their problems… but the real problem is the team on the field sucks. When they were a winner, their stadium was full (see early 90’s) but since then.. They’ve not really tried. The Rays sucked in the early years.. expansion teams will do that.. but they are now perennially at or near the top of their division every year.. but still don’t draw.. why? Shitty stadium in a poor location (but still not that bad) in the middle of a hotbed of fans of their biggest rival. The Rays will never draw in the Tampa/St. Pete area. Hell, the Buffalo AAA team probably outdraws them most years. The Rays need to move… The A’s need to spend more than the QB for the Chiefs makes in a year and actually field a quality team.. Oakland isn’t helping them because the city and state knows.. the team is not going to win ANYWHERE unless they change their ways.. a new stadium won’t change that. The Rays.. it might.. but the biggest problem is.. the Yanks are a bigger draw in their City than the Rays will ever be.
I went to a game back in July. It wasn’t that bad.
I went to a game just to get out of the humidity in May. Had a nice afternoon, beer hotdogs etc. it wasn’t a bad day out
Same here. Food was less expensive than other parks. I appreciated that. Sometimes you just want to watch a good baseball team and eat a reasonably priced hotdog. Wasn't a bad experience at all. I was on vacation though. I can see where it would be a headache for someone from the Tampa side to fight rush hour traffic to get to the other side of the bay.
@@mj6493 my parents moved down to the Fort Myers area, I went down to see them and the Orioles (my team) was in town so we drove up. The refills on drinks help too. Since my dad is in his 70s the park was perfect for him plenty of shade and it was cool. Orioles ended up winning and well they’re in first now
Yes its old, but the people who hate on the Trop are the ones who never been. They’ll have a great time
So pleased to see how wrong you are. They are staying in Saint Pete and building a new stadium on the same property. Amazing how that works. So much bloviating.
There’s no rail service between Tampa and St Pete. CSX wants 800 million for the Clearwater subdivision. Pinellas County won’t do it. I hope Ybor happens but again no rail service. Who wants to have a couple beers then try to drive on 275?
Having been to Florida a couple of times on vacation, traffic is overall pretty atrocious as well.
Ever hear of the Montreal Expos?
Their attendance apparently got very bad after the 94 strike though they never were that successful in Montreal anyway.
I have also heard, (though take this with a grain of salt because I didn’t exist for most of their tenure) that many said the language barrier and French culture not being used to baseball may have played a role in their failure to build a contending team and fanbase.
I also heard Olympic Stadium was pretty bad too.
Sorry, the Seattle Pilots were a much bigger fail than the Rays.
St. Petersburg IS in Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay is a region. I think you meant Tropicana isn't in Tampa.
The narrative of many of the Ray's fans are that they don't play in Tampa... I don't think it even matters... maybe they get 5000 more fans if they move to Tampa. Still not good enough after having such a good team for many years. Yankee and Dodgers fans commute far as well to see their teams play. Tampa is not a good MLB market.
@breadandcircuses8127 First of all... St. Pete is in the Tampa region. Rays have been good for over a decade and no one seemed to cared... also probably no sell out games. Tampa is a city with a lot of retirees... they need young fans who care like they support the Lightning and Bucaneers. Fans in New York travel out of their way to the Bronx. I bet you have no idea what the Bronx looks like right? It's not exactly a place full of palm trees and ocean. The Yankees have more fans in the Tampa region... even their minor league team is in the region and draws better attendance. A new stadium would be like the new Miami Marlins stadium... no one cares enough to buy tickets and they even won 2 world series. Would you be willing with another 25000 fans to put money down on season tickets to show MLB that you will support a new stadium in Tampa?
@saltbae865 tampa is a good market but commuting and get to the stadium is super tough if you don't already live in St. Pete, it's not super accessible
@@chancecherry6055 There are plenty of markets like this all over North America where fans have to go out of their way to watch a game. Many teams have built stadiums in smaller towns or on the other side of a city due to building costs and accessible land. It will continue... like the Chicago Bears most recently looking to move to a horse racing track with no public transportation. Atlanta Braves moved to a small community outside of the city. What about outside downtown core stadiums for the Texas Rangers, New York Yankees, LA Dodgers, KC Royals? What assurance do you have you will get 30000 a game by moving to Tampa? Okay let's say the Ray's agree with your vision... what excuse will you have if the attendance doesn't improve? Do you want to be the billionaire investing in this move to Tampa or would move to another market?
@@saltbae865you sound like you have no idea the money or burden it puts on the average Floridian to drive from the inner countryside or suburbs of the tamp bay region and get to downtown st pete. If the rays were smart they’d build a stadium right next to the hard rock casino in the State Fair grounds where’s there’s alreaady plenty of parking, space to build, not far from schools and neighborhoods that would easily make the trip.
“On the verge of possibly?” What does that mean?
The Rays wouldn’t be in this conversation if they were in Tampa proper from the beginning. It’s not the team, organization, ownership, or even the Trop itself. St. Pete is just a pain to get in and out of. The Diamondbacks and Marlins were worse expansion team ideas.
Diamondbacks won the World Series in 2001, and the Marlins have won two World Series. Both metro areas are in the top 12 most populous in the USA, yet there are 30 teams, so each has a population base greater than at least 60% of MLB teams, including every team in the two Central Divisions outside Chicago (which is losing population, many moving to FL and AZ). Look at population data. How could they be bad expansion choices?
They are getting a new Stadium Built
They don't even have a big stadium in Miami and all that stuff.
After failing to lure the ChiSox, the group controlling the Trop had a deal to lure the Giants from San Francisco...but MLB owners voted it down
The Rays need to be IN TAMPA, not St Pete
Maybe Floridians just don't care for baseball
People in the Tampa Bay Area care about baseball. They just hate going to and from St. Pete.
@@91_C4_FL lol Yankee and Dodgers fans commute too ... a new stadium will still get the same turnout as the Marlins.
Let’s see a piece on ARCO Park (Sacramento)! Crazy story.
While nothing you said was false or irrelevant, you failed to mention some of the most important factors. First, in calculating the demographic demand they treated seniors just like anyone else. Seniors don't attend sports events. They may follow a team on TV but they won't go in person. When you're 70 you will understand why. Second, Manfred is demanding a minimum of 300 million kicked in by the city towards a stadium, and Sternberg is demanding at least 500 million. Tampa can't raise more than 100 million. Evidently Orlando has the money Sternberg is demanding. Third, the politicians in Nashville are pledged to no further spending public money on sports stadiums. In fact, no city except Orlando is willing to build a stadium for Sternberg.
I know some 70 something year olds that go to games though LOL
. To be fair the team is very good and has had some good teams. The sole issue is the location in Tampa Bay, it just does not draw the walk up ticket sales which is why weekday games are so poor. They would be better off in Orlando downtown someplace.
Ok so I lived in the Tampa Bay area and was in High school when they built it you should go back to when they were going to build this stadium because as I remember they had people living in the area who didn't want this built and as I remember could be wrong but I believe they bought or for-close on people's home
Nashville Howlin Rays. just like the chicken!
Ryan Day can't coach
yup
Automated Teller Machine Machine, Vehicle Identification Number Number, Major League Baseball Baseball.
Indianapolis Arrows need a video
I wonder what would happen if the Rays (or the city) would tear off the roof, including the wall. (If doable.) Would more people attend the games at an open-air stadium?
Everything I hear is that the trip over the bridge to and from the game is a nightmare.
The Orlando stadium render looks hideous
tropicana field is worse than the kingdome was and thats saying a lot of how bad it is
Don't see The Rays getting a stadium in Tampa. The whole region does not like Sternberg the owner. Tampa or St. Pete cannot get Sternberg to commit to what % he is willing to pay. Most people including me was not happy that we paid for Legends Field(Yankees Minor League team next to Raymond James). We paid for Raymond James Stadium and we paid for T. B. Bucs workout facility. Also USF has been treated poorly by the Bucs ownership in parking, ticket sales and concessions through the years. In a stadium that we gave them. Cheap A** Sternberg will try to force either Orlando or Nashville to pay for the relocation fees. I love the Rays but do not want to pay higher taxes to keep them. The Commissioners have already tapped out the motel tax and other tourist tax this century.
Also it has to be voted on during the General Election. We wanted Jeffrey Vinik(T.B. Lightning owner)to purchase the team if it was for sale. He said no. I would vote yes if he were the owner. H e is beloved. Top owner in all of sports.
Hey, I apologize for last nights comment. You’re a Great reporter thank you for what you do.
Went to 2 games there around 20 years ago while on vacation in Bradenton. Didnt feel like a baseball stadium. Weird vibe. The surrounding area wasn't very nice. Not sure if its still like that. We got 2nd row seats for $50.
Today, $50 is pretty damn good for an MLB game LOL
Look the trop isn’t bad it’s just the location
Sucks because St. Pete is actually very nice
The Rays are doomed to never build a fan base because of it being the retirement capital of the world. There will always be more Yankees, Red Sox, and Orioles fans in the St. Petersburg area.
No NL fans retire there?
@@huskyfaninmass1042 yeah, NL fans do, but my comment was directed at their division rivals
Because of Spring Training. Theirs like 6 teams less than 50miles away from the Trop.
People may forget during 2021 WWE used Tropicana field as it's thunderdome
MLB wants a team in Tampa Bay. I live in St.Petersburg and it not a secret that the Rays will thrive better in Tampa!
Will you buy season tickets?
Not even in the top 5 worst expansions in the American League
If the new TB Rays ballpark fail, in 2027 is Montreal, Quebec’s turn for Major League Baseball In ⚾️ 🇨🇦
No way Montreal is kicking in 500,000 Dollars for a stadium.
Montreal doesn't like sports outside of hockey
It’s up to the president of Major League Baseball and the mayor of Montreal, Quebec
@@manuelgrothe608 Has the mayor of Montreal ever said he's willing to build a stadium to lure a team to Montreal?
@@samelmudir The people advocating for a MLB are loudmouths who don't speak for the majority.
Move the Rays to Tampa
Still won't help them... the team could be good but residents don't care enough like the NHL team or football. Yankee and Dodgers fans also commute far but support their team regardless the distance. You build a stadium in Tampa... maybe 5000 more fans... just another Marlins situation with their new stadium.
In 1958, when Dodgers moved to LA, most people living in California at that time had moved to California from somewhere else, so many had grown up as fans of other MLB teams. However, most people in greater LA area became Dodger fans.
Biggest failed? I’d say one of the AL’s most consistent teams who has made multiple trips to the World Series isn’t the biggest failure. Not when there was an expansion team that damn near went bankrupt in Year 1 and moved to another city for year 2. I always enjoy your content, but they’re far from the biggest failed expansion project.
Think the whole Wander Franco debacle means the Rays likely won't have another contract more than 5 years 40 million for a decade or more regardless of who it is
Go Nashville Ray's
Well despite the 2 World Series wins I still think the Ray's franchise is way better than the Marlins! Marlins ownership overall is a complete joke compared to Ray's ownership.
As you said though, the Marlins do have two World Series wins, and they won both in their first 10 years of existence.
That’s much more successful than the Rays who still have none.
Move to Ybor and this thing is buttoned up overnight
MLB in Florida just wasn't a good idea, the cities in Florida aren't big enough, and there are too many snow birds with no loyalty to Florida.
Florida is the third most-populous state in the USA
People should be loyal to the state that they move to, or otherwise they shouldn't move
@@HighpointerGeocacher but there aren't any huge population centers, Miami and Tampa Bay really aren't big enough to support 81 games a year.
The Marlins have had good success in Florida though, as they’ve won two World Series titles
Ticket price 60 dollars all food 25 dollars
trade the team to montreal
I agree!!
@chepelatino- trade the marlins not the rays. I actually think if you get the rays to tampa or orlando they would do well. shockingly miami has not been a good market.
@@infoguy1978 but MTL need to be in AL East to have more game against Toronto
@@chepelatino they can have them play against each other annually in interleague play.
@@infoguy1978 but rivalry between Montreal and Toronto is like Boston and New York for Canada. 3 games year is not sufficient
‼️Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved 😊🎉 Bible teaches it. Acts 16:31
Oklahoma might be good place to relocate
Nah
Oklahoma could use an NFL franchise since Oklahoma is big on football.
First
MOVE THEM TO MONTREAL 😉🇨🇦
And play in what stadium💀. The Olympic stadium is out of date just like Tropicana 😭
@@boca.firefighter.videos 😑you’re damm right but I’m miss them and would love to see MLB return to Montreal 🫡