Making of a Reverse Tilting Cargo Trike with Adjustable Geometry #5 - Full Build
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- Reverse Tilting Trike Build - This is my 5th video about how to make a Reverse / Tadpole Tilting Cargo Trike / Tricycle. Each iteration has some improvements!
In this version, I created a trike with adjustable geometries with the intention of finding all the best possible setting for being great to ride.
Thank you to PCBWay for helping with the project. Please check out their website and consider them for having your parts manufactured:
www.pcbway.com/
Checkout the cargo trike playlist here if you like to see how it got started and developed: • How to Make a Cargo Trike .
Video chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:45 Wishbones
10:45 Caster disc
17:18 Knuckles
19:50 Hubs
28:03 Assembly
33:05 Steering
40:35 Tilting
41:15 Preview
41:35 Next
43:32 Riding - Навчання та стиль
A 2nd steering arm will get rid of the constant left right wobble in the steering. Instead of push or pull, it will become: push+pull, which results in less/ no wobble. I had the same problem. The second steering arm was the solution.
Thank you very much for the suggestion to improve! I agree with the push-pull situation. I've been looking forward to upgrade to cable steering which would be pull-pull as well. Let me know what you think.
How would it work if you just use a bike chain instead of rods?
Might be more susceptible to road bumps..
My other thought would be, if the rods were bent at each end, so that the bulk of rod length was under frame, it would be out of the way.. If you use the bent rods, you could make channels on the frame for them to slide in, so they wont wobble..
Also, I was wondering if this type of tilt steering could be adapted to make a self balancing system.. Using some kind of inverse feedback of the centrifugal force of the turn...
I am thinking that people in a car going around a turn are pushed in their seats to the outside of the curve.
If the bike seat has the same force, then linking the seat's left/right shift action to the tilt of the wheels, could possibly make auto correcting self balance system..
I saw someone on UA-cam that did also o cargo bike with pull pull cables.
@@WagonLoads I wonder if bent rods wouldn't act as springs thus making the steering wobbly again
@@ghicione , me too! I'm also inspired my other makers that share their work on UA-cam. Here's a great example of making a cable steering: ua-cam.com/video/Ie3uTHq4LSE/v-deo.htmlsi=tsnqfaxDZjOhNZyT
The reverse trike you're designing is going to be used to design future reverse trike bikes. This video has tons of value, even the theory of wheel alignment is same with cars.
Thank you for your kind comment;)
I agree. This video is full of excellent info and Pedro really engages with the comments too.
This is the way to UA-cam!
Amazing: you show how you use the machines you built from 3D printed and CNC-cut parts to make the parts for the machine you're building. This is inspirational. You take bootstrapping to a higher level!
Thank you so much! Ya, I don't have much money to buy machines so I make them;) And I make the machines fit for the purpose so it's all very custom built;) Happy that you enjoyed it! Cheers!
Bootstrapping is so misused. It's impossible. If you don't have boots, try picking yourself up by your shoelaces.
This is the most amazing and perfectly engineered cargo bike I ever seen. Great Job!!!
Thank you so much!
Dude... you're just a perfectionist! Everything you did, you did it precisely. 😂. Very very good work and what an ASMR video to watch. Thanks for sharing your work 👍🏻
Thank you very much! Also, happy that you find it satisfactory to watch;)
on the welding jigs, if you drill a hole through the plank where the tubes need to be welded you can easily tack 3 points without any problem and movement of the pieces
the knowledge in this video alone is remarkable. Thank you so much for sharing, from the tool making to actually making the parts. I think I might of said "this man is brilliant a few times".
Thank you so much! Make me happy to know that it was useful;)
Absolutely excellent , love your method , thought and conclusion . I know this is not an out dated discipline but to see it in action what ever the project is inspiring. many thanks
Thank you very much for the compliments! I'm glad you enjoyed it;)
I love this video!! your way of waalking through the process is awesome! Got into the video just to see the end result but I was hooked watching the whole thing, keep making such great videos!!!!
Thank you so much! Happy to read that it's time well spent watching the video. I'll try to make the next ones as good or better;)
I really like the belt sander idea to grind the notches into the tubes.
Thank you very much! I'm working on a video about how I made this tool.
@@pedro-neves Thank you, that would be helpful!
Very nice. Excellent work. I'm here thinking I wish I had the patience or actually the drive to make such a nice project. I love it. Thank you for sharing
Thank you very much!
Excellent video, I like how you show all the details of every step. Thank you!
Thank you very much! I try to improve a little something on every video. Nice to get that feedback;)
Superb, really well thought out and well made with relatively simple tools - this is proper iterative engineering!
Thank you!
Bravo, this is something I have played with trying to figure out just from an intellectual curiosity basis from time to time over the past two decades.. lots of pencil and Cad skedtches…. only to give up when I realized I dint have time to learn all the intricacies of steering geometry… So it’s fascinating to watch you actually do it!
Thank you! When I started I also didn't know all these concepts of steering geometry! I've been learning on every iteration and quite a lot from viewers comments! I do consider all the suggestions for improvements that I get. I'm happy that I can help you understand these concepts after learning them;) Cheers!
@@pedro-neves best of luck to you. This form factor of bike makes so much sense to me. I really hope you can develop it to the point where they can be commercialized. I want one!
@@ucdwinoThank you! I will keep making it better and better for sure;)
Im learning some great language about steering by watching this thank you for sharing! Great build!
Thank you! Happy that it's useful;)
The carefully selected preview for this video definitely did its job. The result, like the process of creating this work of art, is amazing! I'm delighted, you are unique. A person who knows how to design parts on a computer and then is able to bring them to life independently. This is a video from the category of “save by downloading to your computer so as not to lose”
p.s. I translated using Google translator, if there are any mistakes, I apologize. Greetings from Russia!
Your comment is very kind, thank you! I'm glad that you liked it and want to save it;) And, there will be several developments to make it better in the future;) I hope you continue watching the next developments. Greetings from Amsterdam!
I'll definitely be watching!
@@66__99, thank you again for the inspiring kindness.
Awesome and I Love It, 👍🙂
@@onnobesd324 thank you very much!
Excellent workmanship. Looks like it is a joy to ride.
Thank you! And it is;) But I think I can adjust the geometry to make it even better;)
I admire your minimalist skills!
Thank you;)
Well done! You made a very stable turning mechanism, it will allow you to drive with a load without fear of losing control.
Thank you very much! Ya, this is the point - making it more stable and agile to ride.
Great skills, design, workmanship and execution!
Thank you!
The way you talk us through your creative process reminds me of This Old Tony.
Thank you! Didn't know this channel but looks cool. Just subscribed;)
Amazing engineering and a beautifully completed job. It works the charm. Well done!
Thank you!
What an amazing development platform, great work!
Thank you!
like this video!! the way you design This process is amazing! Well done, I watched the video just to see the end result but I was hooked when I saw the whole thing, I'm currently building a cargo tricycle and waiting to see your process in more detail,
Thank you very much! It's great to think that these videos help other maker with their build! Just as I get help from videos of other makers. I'll keep on testing and improving and sharing the lessons learned.
Nice work, but when pressing bearings in you should always press on the outer races not the inner.
Hello, ya, that's right... I'm using the spheres to pull the outside. I will not do this again. Cheers!
I think you should test a heavy load and see how it steers
@@theoriginalrecycler, I will!
Brilliant! Those welds look like bird droppings, but hey, they work! You installed the disks for brakes, but they are not functional yet. Then you need to install a HUGE bell! 🙂
Thank you, I enjoyed watching.
Thank you very much! I'll keep improving my welds;) Next big project will be with TIG. The disc brakes are not functional yet, you are right. As long as I am changing the front all the time, I just use the rear brake,
This really is outstanding work. Very impressive.
Thank you!
44:30 that's some crazy flexing and shimmying of the front inside wheel.
Hello, that's correct. The front right wheel wobbles. This is because it's not trued. I'll make sure to fix that before the geometry tests.
Same as I said to Phil Vandelay: I hope you'll always succeed professionally. People like you should always be hired in whatever they want in this area of expertise. It's hard to do all you do, but also document it and make a decent video out of it. That front component is a masterpiece.
As someone said before, it might be copied by cargo bike builders. I just hope they reach out to you to be part of the development process. Cargo bikes are the future and hopefully, they'll replace cars and vans for most use-cases in urban areas.
On the other hand, I'd love to see how you install the cargo bay and carry stuff around. I'm not sure if the last big hole you made for the steering is going to compromise the structure once you carry heavy loads and hit a pothole. Take my point with a pinch of salt because I studied industrial engineering but haven't performed as such for a long time haha.
Hello, your comment is incredibly kind, thank you so much!
I am a big fan of this new generation of city vehicles. I believe this is the future - small, affordable, designed for the city.
I already installed a cargo bay for the tests that I'm performing. Looks very nice;) The hole in the front has been structurally corrected because I welded a vertical tube for the steering.
I am now in the process of tuning the geometry and doing multiple tests. I'm working on a video for this. I hope you watch it;) Cheers!
That's some remarkable engineering! 🙂
Thank you!
This trike looks great! Awesome work there good sir, very well done! :D
A leaning trike with suspension is no easy feat to pull off, quite impressive!
The idea of a second steering arm suggested previously is a solid solution, but it doesnt have to be a "chunky" piece like a mirror of your current singlesided version.
It would suffice with a bowden cable, like a bike brake cable and tube.
The goal is to tension the system in both directions, eliminating any slop/give in the steering mechanism, and you only need a small force to accomplish this.
You can easily fabricate some wireclamps and tube end sockets with a drill and a hacksaw.
Thank you very much! The next version will have for sure a pull-pull system on the steering extension!
Awesome and inspiring! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so much for the kind and inspiring comment!;)
Absolutely brilliant, the whole thing beautiful
Thank you!
Kudos and Love from Latin America my friend, amazing work!
Thank you very much! Cheers!
Looks great! Looking forward to the tests video
Thank you very much! I'm looking forward to the tests too actually;) And to the video;)
In the 1990's I was in an electric car racing club in HS. For my senior project I designed a trike with active camber front steering. It had a disc that the steering mounted to, as well as the upper control arms. The control arms would move in proportion to the amount of steering input. At the time we raced fairly large karts with 2 lead acid car batteries for power. With 20" bicycle wheels we had to slow down severely in the tight corners given our moving mass. If we went too fast, we would taco the rims.
By this point in my high school career, I was a fairly disengaged loner who would rather be at home playing Half Life. I was given the opportunity to build my design, but at that time I was intimidated by metal fabrication, and very self conscious about my welding skills (even though I became a professional metal fabricator later in life). So I never built it. Teacher aide even tried to flunk me on my senior year for not taking the initiative, but I didn't care. I was over it.
I had already competed in an international engineering competition a few years prior, so I just wasn't interested for whatever reason. I personally think it was just being a loner in a very cliquey small town school. I didn't feel like I belonged there.
Thank you for sharing. Just want to say that if you want to do something and this thing that you want to do is good for you and perhaps even good for the world, then I think you should do it. There is more regret from things we didn't do than from things we do. If you are kind and with positive motivation, your project should create happiness. Cheers!
Super video! I am full of admiration for your skills.
Thank you very much!
Enjoyed watching your work!
Thank you very much for the kind comment;) Happy that you enjoyed it.
Amazing!!! I a kind of dreaming of making a recumbent one like this, you make it look feasible. Inspiring!!!!!
Thank you! How wonderful that this video inspires you to make your own;) It is certainly feasible;)
Great video.
The setup adjustment is very clever.
I was also struggling with the trail on my diy long john.
It turned out a bit unstable on slow speed but very good on speed.
Thank you! And great point, one geometry can make it good at some speed but not good faster or slower. On my geometry test, I'll share what make it better or worse at different speeds;)
Nice project! Happy riding.
Thank you!
WOW! What a project.
this is incredible, lovely video and amazing skills! i've always wanted to make my own bike and i've always wanted a cargo bike!
Thank you very much! I hope this inspires you to make your own build. It's very rewarding to ride a vehicle self-made;)
getting this done with gasless mig welding is an achievement. however some of the beads are really on the edge of safety, outside of experimenting.
you might not see it that way yet, but with a bottle of argon you could save an incredible amount of time grinding and brushing off the flux that hides defects.
my own welding experiments have run on one B50 bottle since the covid shutdown. i'm going to have it refilled at the end of this summer. it was short of 500 bucks for the bottle purchase and the first fill.
also gas welding means you can tig and mig, and both do less sparks than gasless.
i'm already checking the next video 🙂
I totally agree with everything that you wrote. Actually, I consider the welding to be the lowest point in quality of this build.
And you are soooo right about the grinding! In the end of this project, I was so tired of it.
The next investment for my shop is definitely a welder with gas.
Cheers!
Awesome build. Thank you.
Thank you!
Great teacher Pedro Neves.
Thank you very much! I do like teaching, so that's a big compliment;)
Brilliant work
Thank you!
well done for both workpiece and video.
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it.
For an amateur bike builder you have produced a good working example.
Ok you welding technique is open to debate...as well as some applications.. methods.
But heyho your not a professional fitter or welder...
However, you computer and ideas are above the norm.
Great little project...with so much to develop and improve...
Very interesting...
Look forward to some updates...
And maybe a discussion..
You get my vote if approval...
Simon a Brit in Spain 👍
Thank you very much! My welds are for sure not great. I'll buy a TIG machine soon before working on a project with a lot of welds. I'll do better with that.
Regarding the improvements, this is the point, make one, see what can be improved, learn, make another;) Cheers!
@@pedro-neves
Estas en España...y si de que parte...
Simon
@@simonbertioli4696 ,in The Netherlands. Cheers!
Looks pretty cool.
What a cool contraption :D
I really like all the jigs you use.
Thank you! Ya, I can make things much more accurate with jigs so I tend to use them often;)
Amazing Work
Thank you!
Wow what a great Project good job buddy looks amazing
Thank you!
멋집니다 !
당신의 능력이 부럽습니다.
from south korea. ^^
Thank you!
this is awesome, thanks for sharing
Thank you!
The whole design would make a killer reverse tilting ATV trike frame. 3 hub motors, battery, controller and controls and it would be a lot of fun.
Maybe I'll get there one day!;) Cheers!
Great job. Thank you for share.
Thank you!
Achei incrível seu vídeo, Pedro. Muito bom mesmo. Deu para aprender bastante.
Thank you very much! Makes me happy that this is useful!
Dat ziet er fantastisch uit.
Keep doing what you are doing. Don’t worry about steering linkage or wobbly right tire. Algorithm pushing you. Good luck.
Thank you! All hail the algorithm!;)
Acredito que sejas lusitano. Excelente trabalho, fiquei pregado ao ecrã acompanhando cada detalho. Parabéns pelo video e pelo projecto.
Sou Português. Obrigado e grande abraço!
I like to see DIY projects like this. Turned out really cool, looking forward to see brake calipers installed (how to). "Let's hammer this Pumba Pumba" sub+1
I'm looking forward to brake calipers too;) I'll include them once I close the design of suspension in steering.
Hehe, I'm having a lot of fun while doing this;)
Very impressive 👍
That is great work. Wow!
Thank you!
Can't wait for the next video
Thank you so much! This motivates me to make it faster;)
looking very interesting !
Thank you very much!
This is the need of a hour. a Human powered machine is very much welcome 🎉🎉 ✌️👥🚴👥✌️ Thanksgiving from India 🇮🇳 LIKE lIKE 👍👍
Nice video great commentary!
Thank you so much!
Amazing Pedro!
Thanks Thomas!
Bagus.. good job.
Just AMAZING!!
Thank you!
great tut vid
Fabuleux WORK..
Thank you very much!!
Bravo........I made a three wheeler......on turns it was a two wheel.........wow.......looks like pod racer.......cheers
Thank you! Haha! Never thought of comparing my trike with a pod racer;) Now I'll always think of that in my future designs;) Cheers!
Man this could be super useful for carrying things!
Hello! Since this video, I already built a cargo bay and I'm now doing some tests. I'll show it in my next video;) Cheers!
@@pedro-neves Looking forward to seeing what that looks like!
@@jonathanwarner4720, thank you for being interested! I'm aiming to publish this video early February;)
Pedro un saludo desde España, que crack!
Saludos, gracias!
Buen trabajo , Pedro
Gracias!
So awesome, ll do it too
Thank you! And if you like making videos please share it!
Plenty of caster is always desirable, as it makes for self-centering steering, and easy no-hands riding.
Most people don't understand why it's really hard to ride no-hands on a downhill mountain bike: the angle of the forks is a lot steeper, so there is much less caster effect.
In cars it means you simply let go of the wheel and the car straightens up automatically.
Thanks for the downhill bike reference. Fully agree!
Top Class, Impressive
Thank you!
well done
Thank you!
Veramente bella e geniale complimenti
Thank you!
Enjoyed the video. If you are going to brake the hub you need to have your wheels built with a cross spoke patten to resist the torque. Using radial spokes and hub braking will result in early spoke failure due to bending at the nipple. I hope that is helpful
This is helpful, and I agree! I cannot count how many times I trued these wheels... I already have rims for 36 spokes, just need to convert them to the wheels for these hubs;) Cheers!
Interesting project thanks for sharing - did you simulate the shock arms to wishbone interface - they look like they would be highly stressed at the weld interface
Hello, thank you! Good point! I did not simulate but while I was building It did look like that. On my next design I'll make sure that there are two plates coming from the wishbones and not just one.
A very thoughtful build. Is there anything preventing you from leaning left while steering right?
Thank you! You can do that. I'm designing it to ride like a bike. Also, in a bike, you can lean outwards instead of inwards in different types of maneuvering. Here's a video that I like very much about this topic: ua-cam.com/video/U1mSavQ_DXs/v-deo.htmlsi=fa4YiHRvLD3X9abC
Fantastic work, Pedro! Amazing to watch your process. I have many questions, but I am most curious about how this will handle with load. It seems you're building this as a bakfiets-style bike? Will it handle differently when you've got the bucket on it? Do you need to change your design for that?
Thank you very much! The cargo question is a good one. I will do several tests to optimize the geometry and I'll have to include tests with cargo to see how it affects handling and tune the geometry accordingly.
这个设计太棒了
doesnt matter whats going on, what they say, the time, the day, dood you make a cool trike..
Thank you very much!
Hi amazing work and I love that you do everything nice and easy, not rushing anything. and nice camera angles. That must need some patience. How long did this build take in total?
Thank you very much! This build took months! But I had a full time job and was doing this on my little free time. So I cannot share an accurate account of how many hours. But, since then, I started working for myself;) And I'm dedicating about 50% of my time to the UA-cam channel so I'll have a more correct accounting of time spent in the future. Cheers!
Awesome! How did you calculate your steering arm lengths? I’m currently building a cargo trike and have been waiting to see your process in more detail, especially your steering geometry. Great design!
Thank you very much! I calculated the steering arm lengths to match the Ackerman geometry. This way the inside wheel will turn more than the outside. This is clear in a tight right turn in minute 46:03. I will explain all about the geometry and provide numbers on the next one after I do a bunch of comparative tests!
what made you decide on the length of the main tube that connects the front end to the main chassis?
Hello, I'm designing this to be a cargo trike so I looked at the dimensions of cargo bikes in the market (Arrow, Bullitt, etc) and chose something in the middle. I'll share the exact dimensions in the video where I'll explain everything about the geometry. Cheers!
I love the engineering here. If I lived in your country, I'd ask you to build me a reverse Longstaff trike with 650b front wheels. That song at the end is a jam, got me dancing in my kitchen.
Thank you very much! And ya, this song is great;) You can find the artist in the description. They have also other very good songs on UA-cam;)
very interesting, I've always been attracted by the tilting trike geometry... will be looking forward the following details about geometry and your take on the result.
what is the current weight of the vehicle ?
Hello, I haven't measured the weight yet. But I will before I publish the video with all the measurements and geometry. Cheers!
Congratulations on your workmanship, You are very dedicated. While I do experiment on the same lines, I must say that I never reach the same level of workmanship as putting ball bearings in the wish bones. Well done, and wish you all the best. There is a lot of variables operating at the same time, but I pay a lot of attention to the relation between the contact point of the wheel on the ground and the projection of the steering angle on the ground. This relation can come up with self cantering, instability , and hard steering and oscillations.
The narrowness of that trike needs weight to be shifted around corners as otherwise the Centrifugal force will take over . At my old age I lile it to be a little wider so that the whole lot is stable when stationary and at slow speed which is all I can achieve,
Congratulations once again.
What you are preparing for at 6:10 is called " Rose-welding".
Thank you very much for the kind comment;) Indeed, I experiment quite a bit and try to increase my skill and my small workshop. Also, I've been learning a lot from comments such as yours about the geometry of vehicles so, thank you very much as well for the teachings!
Regarding the width of the vehicle, this is very much on purpose because I want it to go, as much as possible, through narrow spaces. The tilting mechanism allows for a compensation of the centrifugal force and makes it feel more like a bike, which I like.
When I search the internet for Rose-Welding, all I get is people making roses;) If you have a link to a reference that you can share, I would be happy to learn more about it.
Cheers!
@@pedro-neves I call it "rose weld" but perhaps I misled you as many call it " Rosette welding". This is used to join plates or sleeves in a pipe or a hollow section, One drills a through hole in the " outer plate" and then slide or "the sleeve" or the other plate behind it, Then weld in the hole to fuse together the upper and lower plate/sleeve . I am submitting an idea of " rosette welding" , shown in this video, I think it is enough for you to get the idea, You are a very intelligent person, I extended car chassis using these "rosette welding" on plates, rectangular hollow sections and pipes with sleeves in them.
Hope this helps. The video is described using "a rosette weld" which one may appreciate why they described as such,
How To Weld Spot Welds & Rosette Welds - Great Tech Tip From Eastwood!
ua-cam.com/users/liveQN9Y9tc7gCs?si=wZWyeeU2FdSaS5Kt
Spot Welds and Rosette Welds | TIG Time
ua-cam.com/video/bkb_hAtZS3I/v-deo.htmlsi=Z3mHjxH-oT1Qekt9
All the best. Hope it helps. Again congratulations for your workmanship and you deserve to be called, "gentleman engineer"
@@carmelpule8493, again, this is incredible kind! I appreciate the trouble that you took to share knowledge and your kind words. Cheers! And all the best to you!
very nice build! i will be waiting for the full suspension electric version :)
Thank you! And you guessed it right - after the mechanical build is ready, I'll start creating (and sharing) an electric mid-drive design and build.
i think i have the bafang ultra mid drive motor and motor mount cad files still from one of my builds if you want to use that let me know@@pedro-neves
Grandios!
So Pedro, you just made a trike that Florida needs in the worst way with their slanted roads that also are home to bike lanes. So if you do these trikes in the conventional format, I'm seeing you sell them to bike shops endlessly. Its a uncomfortable feeling on a slanted road on a trike. Yours solves that problem.
Thank you very much! I'm improving the design on every iteration and I already have some improvements in the pipeline after ths one. One day it will be good enough to be a product;)
Crazy awesome design! Only one thing I noticed that could be improved, I think the shock linkages could just be solid mounted to the A-Arms i think the secondary pivot they have is keeping the shock from really catching the forces. Also would there be any benefit to adding q spring to have the suspension pivot back to center?
Thank you! The shock linkages are not final for sure. The reason I designed them like that is because I have that disc that I use to regulate caster angle but after the riding and geometry tests I'll fix the caster angle and have space for shorter shock linkages. Regarding the spring, ya, that might work. Never tried it;) Cheers!
Great work. Is that front right rim slightly out of true. Looks to wobble on your test rides and i dont think its coming from your hubs.
Thank you! Ya, it is quite out of true... I'll make sure it's fixed before the geometry tests.