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As a member of the Church it’s really frustrating witnessing people who are rightfully critical of Tim Ballard be labeled as “pro p3dophilia”. People are allowed to be critical of the Church and its members without huge accusations like this being perpetuated. It’s a very sneaky way of shutting down necessary dialogue. I sincerely hope that we members can look past some of our own biases in the future to actually participate in meaningful dialogue.
@@stoptrudeau42 I’m sorry I’m a bit confused about your comment. I don’t think that topic is really relevant to what’s being discussed. Did I misunderstand you?
I believe there’s a TON of sunk cost going on here. No one likes being wrong, and some people handle it way better than others. These people do not. The cognitive dissonance this is creating is super uncomfortable for them, imo that’s why they’re lashing out so bad. People are really really upset. Like, calm tf down already. Be happy you learned this, then maybe learn more about how to recognize frauds & grifters so you won’t find yourself in the same place sometime in the future.
@@marquitaarmstrong399 Yup. That’s why Bernie Madoff got away with his grifting for so long. No one wanted to bring solo charges. That’s just one example but there’s tons more.
As a gentle correction: the statement from the church came in the form of a response to a request for comment from Vice. It wasn't a press release. I know it might not seem like a huge thing, but it's actually very important, and explains why the church has not said anything in its newsroom. They only post press releases there, which this was not. It was a response to a request for comment. 🙂 Love y'all's work! ❤️
I subconsciously knew there was something up with this guy from the get go. I didn’t necessarily think it was sexual misconduct, but I learned at a young age in general never to trust people with large bravado and need for attention. There were men like that in the church when I was growing up, they all head high positions in the church, and subsequently they all fell from grace due to some type of controversy, whether fraud, lies but most commonly infidelity.
Sam's ability to eyeroll to Pluto is 1) absolutely amazing and peak sarcasm but also 2) I'm autistic and come to videos for learning and escape and the clarity is really comforting and I just wanted to mention it.. thank you
It's so wild to me that my uncle is a McConkie. Every once in a while they talk about the difficulties of being a trans exmormon McConkie. The familial pressure is insane. That being said, I'm so proud of them 💛
My daughter-in- law leant me Ballard book. She was very concerned and was donating money. When I read it, I had a suspicion feeling about him. I guess my intuition was right.
My mother-in-law told me many years ago, in a small town in Idaho, a girl told her bishop her father sexually abused her. The bishop told to forget it and go home because her “father is a good man. “ I couldn’t believe it.
The Davis County Attorney stated that the OUR NDAs do not cover/prohibit speaking truthfully to actual law enforcement, so if anyone else has inside info about OUR they shouldn't be afraid to do expose it
The question I wonder about David McConkie is why was he released after 5 years of a 10 year calling. Did the church know in 2021 he was abusing underage people or was there another reason he left early?
I was on vacation with my in laws who are Mormon and one of the evenings I was wearing tank top and loose shorts cause I was getting ready for bed and that is what I was going to sleep in and got scolded by my mother in law that my husband’s at the time 15 and 17 year old brothers would be tempted. It’s made me feel so gross and ashamed. >.
When i lived with my parents my sister and i werent allowed to walk around without a bra on. It would be a temptation for our two younger brothers and our father. I was pissed and felt so grossed, and it’s taken a while for me to feel comfortable enough walking in my own place without a bra on.
This all just screams to me repressed sexuality abounds in lds culture. Also have thought bishop interviews re child's sexuality Plus homophobic crap throughout spells brethren protest too much. Loafers afloating...
In several interviews, Tim Ballard claimed that when he approached his wife about quitting his job and starting OUR she said, "I won't let you jeopardize my salvation by not doing this!" Can someone please explain to me (like I'm five) how Katherine Ballard's 'salvation' would have been jeopardized had her husband not quit his job to live his action-hero fantasy dreams?
Love how Tanner has entered his early 90’s vanilla ice, fashion era. 🤗 Amazing to see you guys find your authentic selves since the earliest videos of you guys in the cookie cutter mormon style. Sending good vibes.
You two always break stuff down in such an intelligent and thoughtful way. You are both such an inspiration to me. Thank you. "A good person isn't a person who never does anything wrong, it's someone who does something wrong and learns and grows from it." I needed to hear this sooo hard, thank you Tanner.
Had the opportunity to interact with Ballard a few years ago (2020) over the whole Wayfair thing. I was critical of him, and immediately flooded by his supporters calling me a child abuser in very, let's just say uncharitable ways. He was also just about the most dishonest, and arrogant man I've ever met. Completely incapable of engaging without trying to refer to his self proclaimed heroics like they are some kind of shield. This is about the only time I will ever root for the church because I think they are the only entity that can actually prevent Ballard from becoming a senator in Utah. As dangerous and harmful as they are, Ballard with power would be even more dangerous and harmful.
My sister in law was raised in the Mormon church. She was repeatedly r@ped by members of the church, on several occasions. They are still running the church. My poor sis in law, is in psychiatric help. LET US TALK ABOUT THAT. 🤔💯
I hope you guys got to see the Cringy painting of Tim center with Abe Lincoln and Harriet Tubman looking on in awe at the hero Tim Ballard saving a woman from Trafficking. So gross.
The problem is men in power. It seems obvious to me now.Funny thing is that the church says men are called to be leaders, but whenever men are in positions of leadership we find most of them become abusers. Whenever there is a more diverse group in power, we find less corruption. I think everyone who finds themselves in power or suddenly having a lot of money, should go through training to understand what is gping to happen in their brains, and this training should be different for men and women.
You should look up Princilla the queen maker who talks a lot about the biology of a man's brain... It made me realize how much the world has been suffering because it's set up under a patriarchy versus matriarchy. She comes with tons of receipts and explains it really well. We're not all as narcissistic naturally as many of these men are That join the Masons and whatever church organization that makes them gets them automatic clout lol. In general we just need good people to step up. Power hungry people are always the ones that when the positions and then they control everything because good people don't want to.
To an extent, perhaps, but we can’t dismiss how many women also can become abusive when they are in positions of power. The whole 8 passengers thing is a good example of that.
It's going to be interesting if there's a maga wing of exmormonism. I never really imagined that. I just wonder how they'll fit into exmormonism which is very liberal from my experience with local exmormon groups. Do we create space for them or are they just going to be full-time qanon?
My opinion is that instead of heading into ex-Mormonism, they would create yet another Mormon schism... but maybe there would be variations of either!!
The news is absolutely horrible and I feel terrible for the people affected by the actions of this weirdo. But watching his downfall and seeing conspiracy theory right wingers freak out is satisfying.
@@FaisaBeautyIf there's no charity that does the work, including the one you've given money to, it's okay to withhold your money in the meantime until you find something better. The only options aren't supporting child predators and supporting the government. You can support neither until something changes.
I’ve just gotta day it; I can’t hold it in any longer… i LOVE Sam’s consistent willingness to stand up and walk away from the camera while it is rolling. Idk what it is about it but it feels so refreshing like shes not a “performer.” I just don’t know a single other youtuber who does this and I think it’s neat
I heard about all this from Cults to Consciousness and could not wait for you guys to post a video about it after your last videos about him. This did not disappoint!
I LOVED sound of freedom, I read the Lincoln hypothesis when it came out as a teen and to me, Tim Ballard was a hero, even after leaving the church I thought - this man is one of those Mormons who is transcending the organization he is a part of, I can view him as a hero despite his membership in the church. It took A LOT, nuancehoes videos and posts were PAINFUL to read and it felt like losing my faith all over again. It’s hard to hear things that so starkly contrast what you believe to be true, but it’s so important to do. Coming out of Mormonism made me feel immune to propaganda/indoctrination, and the truth is, none of us are, and sometimes thinking you’re “hyper aware” or a “critical thinker” makes it even more difficult to see when you believe things that are deeply untrue.
Just curious, what is something that you all do to regulate yourselves after discussing an upsetting topic like this? I have found gardening to be a good outlet where I can just zen out a bit and it puts me in a better headspace.
In order of how likely I am to do them (haha): 1. Go on a walk 2. Journal 3. Meditate Gardening is the best!!!! I only have a little balcony garden but it’s nice even watering plants! 😅
A few weeks ago I was watching an interview on Chris Williamson's Modern Wisdom podcast with a man saying he was approached by the Underground Railroad to play a wealthy paedophile to help child victims. I couldn't get through more than 20 minutes of the interview, as the guy was so cringeworthy, I felt dirty just listening to him. I am not American so that bravado immediately puts me off. But there was something more I just couldn't put my finger on. Wanting to learn more about that organisation and the movie (that id heard a little bit about), I searched on youtube and found your brilliant 2 part video. Through your video I read about the real child advocates, so thank you. Then today as I was watching watching this video and you were reading the Vice article, i was thinking OMG was this that cringeworthy guy that I couldn't stand listening to? So I went back to Modern Wisdom, and yep it was Paul Hutchison!
When I was 15 or 16, my stake youth conference invited Ballard to give us a several-hours long presentation about OUR and his career (essentially a very early teaser trailer for his personal propaganda film). My shelf broke with the church about a year later, and at the time I didn’t connect the experience much with my faith crisis, but looking back on the whole experience now I think it was actually major for me. A few reasons why: He emphasized a /lot/ the prevalence of trafficking of minors in developing countries, which struck me then and now as racist and non-nuanced. He used so. many. images. of trafficking victims in his presentation. It was completely inappropriate, and deeply uncomfortable, made more so by the fact that in many of the photos the victims were in clear distress. Again, this was a presentation to a room of 14-18 year olds. He was somehow anti-American government and pro-American government at the same time. He left HS because he felt “too restricted” but revered America for being “a safe-haven of the church” (that’s an actual quote I have written down, not sure if it’s verbatim). Also in my notes “I feel like there’s nothing I can do to help this situation, I feel horrible”. Now I know that that feeling of overwhelming fear was intentionally provoked to legitimize OUR’s inane and illegal tactics-and to a group of TEENAGERS! And that he likely victimized many of the people he claimed to save, the majority of whom would have been around the ages of our youth conference group, I’m disgusted that he was even allowed to speak to us. Before anyone asks, no, I don’t know who invited him. I vaguely remember there being some HS connection in our stake who invited him (as in, they had worked together as colleges), but I also seem to remember that he had been from our area? (North Texas) Maybe he just did this presentation all over the country? I haven’t a clue, but whoever’s fucking cockamamie idea it was to have him speak to a whole bunch of youth, I hope you’re having trouble sleeping. PS, Sam and Tanner, love you both and your content, you’re wonderful and I always appreciate your perspectives 🩵
Maybe Tim had his "calling and election made sure" through the second annointing by M R Ballard and he therefore couldn't be disciplined by his local leaders?! Just saying... Tim would think he could get away with anything while "saving the children"
No tank tops at my house or anything else like it because I had to be responsible for not being a temptation for evil thoughts for my dad and 3 brothers -- yeah purity culture sucks
Good update. Ik you don’t love doing videos on this, but I’m certainly glad you have, and would love to continue hearing updates from your perspectives going forward, if/when more events transpire and surface. Also glad you did a video on the Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrant situation, will be heading over there next 😉💙
It’s got to be harrowing to deep dive into these topics on a regular basis and then on top of that having to deal with some of the comments you get. Such important work though. You deserve a million followers
do they even know if the traffickers are actually, traffickers? people do sex work sometimes. not because they were tricked or trapped but because its a job. This sounds like a handler with how he says not to touch them til they pay etc. there is a difference between that and a trafficker. There is. Does OUR know that?
I don’t think OUR or Tim Ballard understand what’s the difference between sex trafficking victims and sex workers 1. Sex trafficking victims are underaged girls that are being exploited by men to engage in commercial sex acts. 2. Sex workers are usually grown women that are making a choice to sell them selves online by having an OF account and work for themselves and make their own money.
I was thinking that. I mean, not in those words because i don't know the right terms in english. My thoughts were more like this doesn't sound like the guy who abducts children, it sounds like the salesman who is trying to appease the wealthy tourists by finding the youngest looking girl they have working there.
The situation is so warped and disturbing. Here is someone who appears to be using the label as a fighter of child sex abuse (sex trafficking, sex assault, child prostitution, or whatever) as a way to gain favor with people for money and status. All while he is (allegedly) a sex abuser... and is lashing out at those who point out his (alleged) blatant wrongs. Those of us who were sexually abused as children likely are all viewing this as some sort of surreal craziness that reaches a new level of disgusting. I'm not sure if I view child sexual abuse as "almost as bad as murder." Maybe it's worse. It is psychologically maiming, killing something within that is a base of being human. Leaving someone sexually crippled with ugly feelings that can be triggered in surprising, random, quick, and troubling ways. Being a person who experienced child sexual abuse greatly increases the risks of the person becoming and addict, or otherwise leading a troubled life, and perhaps one that ends early through OD or suicide. I've lost friends to those situations. It seems that Tim Ballard has to be a certain level of psychologically devious (damaged?) to (allegedly) use being a fake hero to the sexually abused as a self-promotion tool. I wonder what his childhood was like, and what was done to him. Or what he has done to others. I would not be surprised if there was child abuse in his history. Otherwise, why the focus? (Especially if he grew up in a church rich with cases of child sexual abuse among the members.) It all seems more sad and tragic than it does anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of his children change their last name so they won't carry such a stain on their life created by their father's monster behavior.
I hope you two are getting your Doctorates in any type of theological philosophy, or run for office, or start a non profit counseling group. You are both 🔥!
I totally agree with you about the cause of sexual acting out. I wrote this poem about it. I was raised in fundamentalist Baptist religion. Shame Religion has shamed us for using our senses. “Pleasure’s a sin” that has Hell consequences. This has caused disconnection of body from soul. Created taboos that we cannot control Created this polarized world torn in two The good and accepted and the hated taboo. From overweight people to hypocrite priest Denial and the shame for our pleasure increased Secret compulsions unconsciously stored That make us act out what we say we abhor. We’ve all become addicts fueled by our shame With religion made scapegoats created to blame These “Demons” that taunt us to do these bad things Like we are just puppets tied to their strings. But if we all deal with our feelings denied Shout out our anger and let tears be cried Go through the grief process till there’s no shame Pay back our debts without demons to blame No longer will shame and taboo have control Because now our body is guided by soul!
I'm on the church's side on this. Mostly because Q'Anon is way worse than the church. And Ballard is a Q'Anoner just like many of the members of the church are.
You guys are on fire 🔥I'm sorry people shame you with their righteous ignorance (religious or not). I can't speak to being a trafficking victim, but as a csa victim I'm tired of people invoking our pain, in the name of fighting this stranger danger white van dream and hurting real children in the process.
Let's not please forget the innocent animals along with the children Who constantly are abused and marginalized by society Sending you love and light ❤❤❤❤
"You're the People You're Trying to Bust.' Please put that on a coffee mug or something because that Really Nails it best. 100% Been trying to say that since Q happened.
We enjoyed your perspectives, missed the videos! Stephanie! STEPHANIE! Also there was something we had talked about commenting specifically but too high can't remember. Hope you're both doing well!
My dad (who is Christian) wanted to watch The Sound of Freedom then I showed him how Tim had himself painted in art that portrayed him like an idol (or Jesus). He never watched it in theaters but we watched it for free, because it’s honestly an okay movie. I just don’t like the disgusting glorification.
Saying that while having girls tell middle-aged men if they are sexually in a room alone...? adults for goodness sake are telling men their business instead of just telling god. Its different if you steal from someone and they go to your church leaders to help resolve but when it has nothing to d o with others per say .Like some go to the bishop and about watching R movies like even shindlers list..Historic stuff
Hey my friends. Your understanding of what causes pedophilia is super naive and also just sort of conveniently fits your narrative. As a CSA victim, raised in a very liberal environment….every one of my perpetrators had a very “open” and unrepressed view of their sexuality and it’s expression. They just liked kids. Full stop. There are less environmental factors influencing pedophilia/hebophilia than either side of the political spectrum would like. The right wants it to be about negative secular/cultural influences. The left wants it to be about repressive religious shame. Pedophilia is a paraphilic sexual presentation based on power and control. It just is what it is my sweet loves. Some people got it. They were born with it. Gratefully most people don’t.
@@ZelphOntheShelf It’s okay guys. I just want you to think critically about this. It’s easy to imagine that “our side” would not institutionally protect pedophiles, but that sort of tribalism is as bad as what churches do. We just need to be concerned about the behavior, not worry about what causes it. The solution is to simply say “Absolutely not.” About the behavior. Children are off limits. In our families. In our institutions. It doesn’t matter how “cool” or “Godly” we think the perpetrators are. It’s just a giant No.
Hey thanks for commenting about this! It’s been on my mind since we filmed this conversation. We totally agree the problem transcends all religious, political, or affinity group affiliation. We were trying to shed light on specific psychosocial dynamics that may be playing out in this case, not trying to make definitive blanket statements about the cause of all abuse, specifically child abuse. I apologize for not making that clearer! Thank you for bringing more clarity to the convo! I am so sorry for what happened to you and am grateful that you are helping raise awareness ❤
I agree that the problem spans across all spectrums. But the systematic coving up of abuse seems to have a uniquely religious flavor. Although Hollywood crimes were also covered up. I’m just thinking about Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church. We can probably agree that pedophiles are attracted to positions that place them into proximity of their victims. Most important thing to remember is that the abuse is most likely in the child’s close community, not trafficking. I feel that the real issue is ignored in favor of sensationalism and the lore of a cult.
@@Elusive.magick Amen to that. Trafficking is not the problem. It’s protection of the “good” person we all know and care for - continuing to allow access to victims, not believing victims, thinking a perpetrator’s social proximities and affiliations mean they could “never”.
The “boob grabbing thing” is very common in the sex trade industry to prove one isn’t a cop. It’s still super creepy, especially given the situation & the way they were talking about it. Although sadly I’m not all that surprised.
Hi friends! If you appreciate videos like these PLEASE please consider supporting the channel! We still need to increase our income in order to make the channel fully sustainable, so every little really helps!
As a member of the Church it’s really frustrating witnessing people who are rightfully critical of Tim Ballard be labeled as “pro p3dophilia”. People are allowed to be critical of the Church and its members without huge accusations like this being perpetuated. It’s a very sneaky way of shutting down necessary dialogue. I sincerely hope that we members can look past some of our own biases in the future to actually participate in meaningful dialogue.
" drag queen teaches kids how to twerk" yal support this lol baby drag shows lol 😢😢
@@stoptrudeau42 I’m sorry I’m a bit confused about your comment. I don’t think that topic is really relevant to what’s being discussed. Did I misunderstand you?
Wow you're a smart member
@@Cocobarbie342I think that's exactly what they are discussing, did you watch the video?
@@stoptrudeau42there's nothing wrong with drag. There's nothing wrong with all ages drag shows. Die mad about it.
I believe there’s a TON of sunk cost going on here. No one likes being wrong, and some people handle it way better than others. These people do not. The cognitive dissonance this is creating is super uncomfortable for them, imo that’s why they’re lashing out so bad. People are really really upset. Like, calm tf down already. Be happy you learned this, then maybe learn more about how to recognize frauds & grifters so you won’t find yourself in the same place sometime in the future.
👏🏻🩵
Love the proper use of "sunk cost." Such a useful idea in so many ways beyond economics.
No one likes to admit they were duped and played for fools.
@@marquitaarmstrong399 Yup. That’s why Bernie Madoff got away with his grifting for so long. No one wanted to bring solo charges. That’s just one example but there’s tons more.
The absolute irony of a Hobby Lobby ad interrupting this video. I know that's off topic, but fuckin fuck that gave me whiplash.
Read the room, Google Ads 🙄🤣👍🏼
I got a Prager U ad.
As a gentle correction: the statement from the church came in the form of a response to a request for comment from Vice. It wasn't a press release. I know it might not seem like a huge thing, but it's actually very important, and explains why the church has not said anything in its newsroom. They only post press releases there, which this was not. It was a response to a request for comment. 🙂
Love y'all's work! ❤️
I subconsciously knew there was something up with this guy from the get go. I didn’t necessarily think it was sexual misconduct, but I learned at a young age in general never to trust people with large bravado and need for attention. There were men like that in the church when I was growing up, they all head high positions in the church, and subsequently they all fell from grace due to some type of controversy, whether fraud, lies but most commonly infidelity.
Sam's ability to eyeroll to Pluto is 1) absolutely amazing and peak sarcasm but also 2) I'm autistic and come to videos for learning and escape and the clarity is really comforting and I just wanted to mention it.. thank you
💛💛!!
It's so wild to me that my uncle is a McConkie. Every once in a while they talk about the difficulties of being a trans exmormon McConkie. The familial pressure is insane. That being said, I'm so proud of them 💛
My daughter-in- law leant me Ballard book. She was very concerned and was donating money. When I read it, I had a suspicion feeling about him. I guess my intuition was right.
My mother-in-law told me many years ago, in a small town in Idaho, a girl told her bishop her father sexually abused her. The bishop told to forget it and go home because her “father is a good man. “ I couldn’t believe it.
Ugh 🤮🤮🤮
The Davis County Attorney stated that the OUR NDAs do not cover/prohibit speaking truthfully to actual law enforcement, so if anyone else has inside info about OUR they shouldn't be afraid to do expose it
The question I wonder about David McConkie is why was he released after 5 years of a 10 year calling. Did the church know in 2021 he was abusing underage people or was there another reason he left early?
Sad.
They knew before he was called.
That phrase "mas fresca" just makes me sick. Fresca means fresh. They are literally asking for fresher girls.
😔🤮
The fact that Mitt Romney seems reasonable compared to these folks is deeply concerning 😂💀
I was on vacation with my in laws who are Mormon and one of the evenings I was wearing tank top and loose shorts cause I was getting ready for bed and that is what I was going to sleep in and got scolded by my mother in law that my husband’s at the time 15 and 17 year old brothers would be tempted.
It’s made me feel so gross and ashamed. >.
🙃🩵
My MIL criticized my SIL for putting her 3 y/o daughter in a blouse that was kind of off-shoulder. 🤢
When i lived with my parents my sister and i werent allowed to walk around without a bra on. It would be a temptation for our two younger brothers and our father. I was pissed and felt so grossed, and it’s taken a while for me to feel comfortable enough walking in my own place without a bra on.
This all just screams to me repressed sexuality abounds in lds culture. Also have thought bishop interviews re child's sexuality Plus homophobic crap throughout spells brethren protest too much. Loafers afloating...
Relevance?
In several interviews, Tim Ballard claimed that when he approached his wife about quitting his job and starting OUR she said, "I won't let you jeopardize my salvation by not doing this!" Can someone please explain to me (like I'm five) how Katherine Ballard's 'salvation' would have been jeopardized had her husband not quit his job to live his action-hero fantasy dreams?
Love how Tanner has entered his early 90’s vanilla ice, fashion era. 🤗 Amazing to see you guys find your authentic selves since the earliest videos of you guys in the cookie cutter mormon style. Sending good vibes.
You two always break stuff down in such an intelligent and thoughtful way. You are both such an inspiration to me. Thank you.
"A good person isn't a person who never does anything wrong, it's someone who does something wrong and learns and grows from it."
I needed to hear this sooo hard, thank you Tanner.
Thank you so much!!! 💛💛💛
Predators will always find the easiest place to hide and find their prey.
Had the opportunity to interact with Ballard a few years ago (2020) over the whole Wayfair thing. I was critical of him, and immediately flooded by his supporters calling me a child abuser in very, let's just say uncharitable ways. He was also just about the most dishonest, and arrogant man I've ever met. Completely incapable of engaging without trying to refer to his self proclaimed heroics like they are some kind of shield.
This is about the only time I will ever root for the church because I think they are the only entity that can actually prevent Ballard from becoming a senator in Utah. As dangerous and harmful as they are, Ballard with power would be even more dangerous and harmful.
Interesting
My sister in law was raised in the Mormon church. She was repeatedly r@ped by members of the church, on several occasions. They are still running the church. My poor sis in law, is in psychiatric help. LET US TALK ABOUT THAT. 🤔💯
💔
Thank you for discussing such difficult topics with delicacy and rational points. I really appreciate the way you guys approach these subjects
I hope you guys got to see the Cringy painting of Tim center with Abe Lincoln and Harriet Tubman looking on in awe at the hero Tim Ballard saving a woman from Trafficking. So gross.
YUP
The problem is men in power. It seems obvious to me now.Funny thing is that the church says men are called to be leaders, but whenever men are in positions of leadership we find most of them become abusers. Whenever there is a more diverse group in power, we find less corruption. I think everyone who finds themselves in power or suddenly having a lot of money, should go through training to understand what is gping to happen in their brains, and this training should be different for men and women.
You should look up Princilla the queen maker who talks a lot about the biology of a man's brain... It made me realize how much the world has been suffering because it's set up under a patriarchy versus matriarchy. She comes with tons of receipts and explains it really well. We're not all as narcissistic naturally as many of these men are That join the Masons and whatever church organization that makes them gets them automatic clout lol. In general we just need good people to step up. Power hungry people are always the ones that when the positions and then they control everything because good people don't want to.
To an extent, perhaps, but we can’t dismiss how many women also can become abusive when they are in positions of power. The whole 8 passengers thing is a good example of that.
How would the training differ for men and women?
It sounds like you're essentializing abuse of power to men, and that simply isn't accurate.
@@CT-bc6jh true. It happens to most humans. Sudden power tends to distorts people's minds
@@zacheryeckard3051 Because we are different.
It's going to be interesting if there's a maga wing of exmormonism. I never really imagined that. I just wonder how they'll fit into exmormonism which is very liberal from my experience with local exmormon groups. Do we create space for them or are they just going to be full-time qanon?
My opinion is that instead of heading into ex-Mormonism, they would create yet another Mormon schism... but maybe there would be variations of either!!
The news is absolutely horrible and I feel terrible for the people affected by the actions of this weirdo. But watching his downfall and seeing conspiracy theory right wingers freak out is satisfying.
I am suffering from a horrible case of Schadenfreude 😂 I'm giggling as "Rome" falls
Tims a grifter with hero complex. He takes away from those authorities trying to actually help kids. Shame on him. People fell for his grifting
Do you know the names of those legitimate authorities who try to help the victims so we know who to donate our money to.
@@FaisaBeautyIf there's no charity that does the work, including the one you've given money to, it's okay to withhold your money in the meantime until you find something better. The only options aren't supporting child predators and supporting the government. You can support neither until something changes.
"Utah Grifter Industrial Complex" 👏
I appreciated this phrase so much!! 😂
This is sickening to think they did this all in the name of protecting kids.
Well, js did polygamy in the name of salvation and fear of angel with flaming sword so...
I’ve just gotta day it; I can’t hold it in any longer… i LOVE Sam’s consistent willingness to stand up and walk away from the camera while it is rolling. Idk what it is about it but it feels so refreshing like shes not a “performer.” I just don’t know a single other youtuber who does this and I think it’s neat
👍
I heard about all this from Cults to Consciousness and could not wait for you guys to post a video about it after your last videos about him. This did not disappoint!
The people at Vice said that they asked for a statement and the church responded. The church didn't approach them.
They responded hold the church accountable, that where the confusion is embedded
I LOVED sound of freedom, I read the Lincoln hypothesis when it came out as a teen and to me, Tim Ballard was a hero, even after leaving the church I thought - this man is one of those Mormons who is transcending the organization he is a part of, I can view him as a hero despite his membership in the church. It took A LOT, nuancehoes videos and posts were PAINFUL to read and it felt like losing my faith all over again.
It’s hard to hear things that so starkly contrast what you believe to be true, but it’s so important to do. Coming out of Mormonism made me feel immune to propaganda/indoctrination, and the truth is, none of us are, and sometimes thinking you’re “hyper aware” or a “critical thinker” makes it even more difficult to see when you believe things that are deeply untrue.
Just curious, what is something that you all do to regulate yourselves after discussing an upsetting topic like this? I have found gardening to be a good outlet where I can just zen out a bit and it puts me in a better headspace.
In order of how likely I am to do them (haha):
1. Go on a walk
2. Journal
3. Meditate
Gardening is the best!!!! I only have a little balcony garden but it’s nice even watering plants!
😅
A few weeks ago I was watching an interview on Chris Williamson's Modern Wisdom podcast with a man saying he was approached by the Underground Railroad to play a wealthy paedophile to help child victims. I couldn't get through more than 20 minutes of the interview, as the guy was so cringeworthy, I felt dirty just listening to him. I am not American so that bravado immediately puts me off. But there was something more I just couldn't put my finger on.
Wanting to learn more about that organisation and the movie (that id heard a little bit about), I searched on youtube and found your brilliant 2 part video. Through your video I read about the real child advocates, so thank you.
Then today as I was watching watching this video and you were reading the Vice article, i was thinking OMG was this that cringeworthy guy that I couldn't stand listening to? So I went back to Modern Wisdom, and yep it was Paul Hutchison!
When I was 15 or 16, my stake youth conference invited Ballard to give us a several-hours long presentation about OUR and his career (essentially a very early teaser trailer for his personal propaganda film). My shelf broke with the church about a year later, and at the time I didn’t connect the experience much with my faith crisis, but looking back on the whole experience now I think it was actually major for me. A few reasons why:
He emphasized a /lot/ the prevalence of trafficking of minors in developing countries, which struck me then and now as racist and non-nuanced.
He used so. many. images. of trafficking victims in his presentation. It was completely inappropriate, and deeply uncomfortable, made more so by the fact that in many of the photos the victims were in clear distress. Again, this was a presentation to a room of 14-18 year olds.
He was somehow anti-American government and pro-American government at the same time. He left HS because he felt “too restricted” but revered America for being “a safe-haven of the church” (that’s an actual quote I have written down, not sure if it’s verbatim).
Also in my notes “I feel like there’s nothing I can do to help this situation, I feel horrible”.
Now I know that that feeling of overwhelming fear was intentionally provoked to legitimize OUR’s inane and illegal tactics-and to a group of TEENAGERS! And that he likely victimized many of the people he claimed to save, the majority of whom would have been around the ages of our youth conference group, I’m disgusted that he was even allowed to speak to us.
Before anyone asks, no, I don’t know who invited him. I vaguely remember there being some HS connection in our stake who invited him (as in, they had worked together as colleges), but I also seem to remember that he had been from our area? (North Texas) Maybe he just did this presentation all over the country? I haven’t a clue, but whoever’s fucking cockamamie idea it was to have him speak to a whole bunch of youth, I hope you’re having trouble sleeping.
PS, Sam and Tanner, love you both and your content, you’re wonderful and I always appreciate your perspectives 🩵
Sorry, I just have to comment that Tanner's little "May I have some?" was ADORABLE!!!
I love that you two also listen to you're wrong about!
It’s the best!!! Sarah is just my favorite ever 🥰
Maybe Tim had his "calling and election made sure" through the second annointing by M R Ballard and he therefore couldn't be disciplined by his local leaders?! Just saying... Tim would think he could get away with anything while "saving the children"
Listening to you guys has done a lot towards helping me see the nuance in situations and people, thank u ❤
Same 💚
No tank tops at my house or anything else like it because I had to be responsible for not being a temptation for evil thoughts for my dad and 3 brothers -- yeah purity culture sucks
:( 💛
Good update. Ik you don’t love doing videos on this, but I’m certainly glad you have, and would love to continue hearing updates from your perspectives going forward, if/when more events transpire and surface. Also glad you did a video on the Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrant situation, will be heading over there next 😉💙
It’s got to be harrowing to deep dive into these topics on a regular basis and then on top of that having to deal with some of the comments you get. Such important work though. You deserve a million followers
Oh boy, popcorn time!
🙃
Sam's passion and compassion really rings on this topic.
This is a difficult subject so I'm really appreciative for both your voices and views.
I need you to know that the Hallow Prayer App ad played before this video lol
I mean this in the best way possible: this video feels like when I get stoned with my friend and he is explaining this fucked up adventure
Gorgeous 🥰
do they even know if the traffickers are actually, traffickers? people do sex work sometimes. not because they were tricked or trapped but because its a job. This sounds like a handler with how he says not to touch them til they pay etc. there is a difference between that and a trafficker. There is. Does OUR know that?
I don’t think OUR or Tim Ballard understand what’s the difference between sex trafficking victims and sex workers
1. Sex trafficking victims are underaged girls that are being exploited by men to engage in commercial sex acts.
2. Sex workers are usually grown women that are making a choice to sell them selves online by having an OF account and work for themselves and make their own money.
I was thinking that. I mean, not in those words because i don't know the right terms in english. My thoughts were more like this doesn't sound like the guy who abducts children, it sounds like the salesman who is trying to appease the wealthy tourists by finding the youngest looking girl they have working there.
Listening to this while I walk to Sprouts. I appreciate you timing your videos exactly to my walk time. Thank you for your evidence based discussion!
The situation is so warped and disturbing. Here is someone who appears to be using the label as a fighter of child sex abuse (sex trafficking, sex assault, child prostitution, or whatever) as a way to gain favor with people for money and status. All while he is (allegedly) a sex abuser... and is lashing out at those who point out his (alleged) blatant wrongs.
Those of us who were sexually abused as children likely are all viewing this as some sort of surreal craziness that reaches a new level of disgusting.
I'm not sure if I view child sexual abuse as "almost as bad as murder." Maybe it's worse. It is psychologically maiming, killing something within that is a base of being human. Leaving someone sexually crippled with ugly feelings that can be triggered in surprising, random, quick, and troubling ways.
Being a person who experienced child sexual abuse greatly increases the risks of the person becoming and addict, or otherwise leading a troubled life, and perhaps one that ends early through OD or suicide. I've lost friends to those situations.
It seems that Tim Ballard has to be a certain level of psychologically devious (damaged?) to (allegedly) use being a fake hero to the sexually abused as a self-promotion tool.
I wonder what his childhood was like, and what was done to him. Or what he has done to others. I would not be surprised if there was child abuse in his history. Otherwise, why the focus? (Especially if he grew up in a church rich with cases of child sexual abuse among the members.) It all seems more sad and tragic than it does anything else.
I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of his children change their last name so they won't carry such a stain on their life created by their father's monster behavior.
A playlist of your videos about this subject would be great!
I hope you two are getting your Doctorates in any type of theological philosophy, or run for office, or start a non profit counseling group. You are both 🔥!
I totally agree with you about the cause of sexual acting out. I wrote this poem about it. I was raised in fundamentalist Baptist religion.
Shame
Religion has shamed us for using our senses.
“Pleasure’s a sin” that has Hell consequences.
This has caused disconnection of body from soul.
Created taboos that we cannot control
Created this polarized world torn in two
The good and accepted and the hated taboo.
From overweight people to hypocrite priest
Denial and the shame for our pleasure increased
Secret compulsions unconsciously stored
That make us act out what we say we abhor.
We’ve all become addicts fueled by our shame
With religion made scapegoats created to blame
These “Demons” that taunt us to do these bad things
Like we are just puppets tied to their strings.
But if we all deal with our feelings denied
Shout out our anger and let tears be cried
Go through the grief process till there’s no shame
Pay back our debts without demons to blame
No longer will shame and taboo have control
Because now our body is guided by soul!
I was eager to hear your take on this whole mess, and you definitely didn't disappoint! Thanks. ❤️
I am excited for another video! I hope Sam had a nice visit with family!
I DID, thank you!!! 💜💜💜
this is the 1st video I can understand what the big deal is with tim ballard. thank you for explaining clearly.
Boyscout cover ups were just horrible
You guys are so awesome! I am so glad that I found your channel.
Love, peace, and empathy. 🧡
I'm on the church's side on this. Mostly because Q'Anon is way worse than the church. And Ballard is a Q'Anoner just like many of the members of the church are.
I not sure about most but many are.
@@kirklandmeadows I never said most, I said "many" if you read the end of my statement again. 😉
Thank you for speaking about this. It is important to speak about. I hope that you don't get any hate comments.
Love you guys
🤗
I have been praying that these idiots get caught. Best news I have heard in Five years. Literally
I think excommunication is called “membership removal” now to make it sound less offensive.
!!!
How did the video or commentary come out about the guys with the grabbing of the young girl?
Methods detailed here: www.vice.com/en/article/z3mq5w/sound-of-freedom-producer-underage-trafficking-victim
Thank you for creating such awesome content! You guys seriously rock.
🥹💛
Another great video. Thanks! Proud Patron here :-)
OMG I absolutely love Tanner’s look! I am in love with it! Hell yes!
You two are amazing!
Thanks for sharing this. It is important information.
You guys are on fire 🔥I'm sorry people shame you with their righteous ignorance (religious or not).
I can't speak to being a trafficking victim, but as a csa victim I'm tired of people invoking our pain, in the name of fighting this stranger danger white van dream and hurting real children in the process.
Let's not please forget the innocent animals along with the children
Who constantly are abused and marginalized by society
Sending you love and light ❤❤❤❤
Vegan for the animals! 💚
Yes! 👏
He's a weird fantasist, amongst other things.
Pleas start leaving links to where you talk about. I can't find the SA website
floodlit.org!
"You're the People You're Trying to Bust.' Please put that on a coffee mug or something because that Really Nails it best. 100% Been trying to say that since Q happened.
We enjoyed your perspectives, missed the videos! Stephanie! STEPHANIE!
Also there was something we had talked about commenting specifically but too high can't remember. Hope you're both doing well!
Hmm man of principles...I suppose everything is relative but I can't forget the roofrack incident.
It’s like Tim IS the church, Tim Ballard: the new faith crisis
Thanks! Please keep yelling in the wind. We need advocacy that fights against religious zealots.
Thank you so much! 💛💛💛💛💛
a pioneer trek train wreck lol😂
Someone should make that into a song. 😂
love you guys!
The double ruse is diabolical & legendary.
My dad (who is Christian) wanted to watch The Sound of Freedom then I showed him how Tim had himself painted in art that portrayed him like an idol (or Jesus).
He never watched it in theaters but we watched it for free, because it’s honestly an okay movie.
I just don’t like the disgusting glorification.
I had no idea there were 400!! Damn. I just found out about the first 70😮.
Saying that while having girls tell middle-aged men if they are sexually in a room alone...? adults for goodness sake are telling men their business instead of just telling god. Its different if you steal from someone and they go to your church leaders to help resolve but when it has nothing to d o with others per say .Like some go to the bishop and about watching R movies like even shindlers list..Historic stuff
Tanner! Not only do you have an awesome name (my 18 year old is Tanner also), you're hair! I love it!
Assange, Tate, Brand and now Ballard? What do they all have in common? Think, people, think.
Hey my friends. Your understanding of what causes pedophilia is super naive and also just sort of conveniently fits your narrative. As a CSA victim, raised in a very liberal environment….every one of my perpetrators had a very “open” and unrepressed view of their sexuality and it’s expression. They just liked kids. Full stop.
There are less environmental factors influencing pedophilia/hebophilia than either side of the political spectrum would like. The right wants it to be about negative secular/cultural influences. The left wants it to be about repressive religious shame.
Pedophilia is a paraphilic sexual presentation based on power and control. It just is what it is my sweet loves. Some people got it. They were born with it. Gratefully most people don’t.
We didn’t mean to imply that it’s one thing or that perpetrators can’t be very conscious about their crimes! We’re so sorry you went through that. 💛
@@ZelphOntheShelf It’s okay guys. I just want you to think critically about this. It’s easy to imagine that “our side” would not institutionally protect pedophiles, but that sort of tribalism is as bad as what churches do. We just need to be concerned about the behavior, not worry about what causes it. The solution is to simply say “Absolutely not.” About the behavior. Children are off limits. In our families. In our institutions. It doesn’t matter how “cool” or “Godly” we think the perpetrators are. It’s just a giant No.
Hey thanks for commenting about this! It’s been on my mind since we filmed this conversation. We totally agree the problem transcends all religious, political, or affinity group affiliation. We were trying to shed light on specific psychosocial dynamics that may be playing out in this case, not trying to make definitive blanket statements about the cause of all abuse, specifically child abuse. I apologize for not making that clearer! Thank you for bringing more clarity to the convo! I am so sorry for what happened to you and am grateful that you are helping raise awareness ❤
I agree that the problem spans across all spectrums. But the systematic coving up of abuse seems to have a uniquely religious flavor. Although Hollywood crimes were also covered up. I’m just thinking about Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church. We can probably agree that pedophiles are attracted to positions that place them into proximity of their victims. Most important thing to remember is that the abuse is most likely in the child’s close community, not trafficking. I feel that the real issue is ignored in favor of sensationalism and the lore of a cult.
@@Elusive.magick Amen to that. Trafficking is not the problem. It’s protection of the “good” person we all know and care for - continuing to allow access to victims, not believing victims, thinking a perpetrator’s social proximities and affiliations mean they could “never”.
The “boob grabbing thing” is very common in the sex trade industry to prove one isn’t a cop. It’s still super creepy, especially given the situation & the way they were talking about it. Although sadly I’m not all that surprised.
Sources? This is interesting!
What a 💩 storm.
marcus
I take 1 day off of TikTok. Wow
This goes on in all religions churches hollywood etc. Just follow and obey Jesus Christ and his teachings . Period
Poor little Timmy
Lol is this the new salesmader letter ?
Y’all are awesome. Anyone calling you a pedo is clearly brainwashed or just plain stupid and nasty.
Every word.
Got my popcorn
Maybe he’s undercover agent
Nice hair Tanner
Funny with Florida. Last time I checked didn't LDS own tons of Florida?
I believe a fifth?!
How about quantos anos?
I'd like to come out and personally condemned the Mormon Church for not doing enough to protect children from trafficking.
Sure, they’ve been shown time and time again to cover up child sex abuse even within their own communities.
@@ZelphOntheShelf Tell the truth and shame the 15.