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Teddy Atlas's Mythical Matchups Part III - Hagler, Jones Jr., Duran, Mayweather & More | Episode 42
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2019
- Teddy Atlas and co-host Ken Rideout talk through Teddy's Mythical Matchups. Who wins in the below Mythical Matchups?
ROBERTO DURAN vs FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR (2:30)
ROBERTO DURAN vs AARON PRYOR (21:35)
MARVIN HAGLER vs ROY JONES JR (33:15)
JACK DEMPSEY vs JOE FRAZIER (50:30)
*Sorry for the less-than-awesome audio here guys. File had some issues; we did our best to clean it up.*
Mythical Matchups Part I is here: • Teddy Atlas on Mike Ty...
Mythical Matchups Part II is here: • Teddy Atlas's Mythical...
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Sorry for the less-than-awesome audio here guys. We had an issue with the audio file and did our best to clean it up.
@THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas, that’s alright man, Teddys going to sound like Dark Vader when yelling BANG! But it’s all good, appreciate your work, many thanks.
Lochtaupo ahahahahaha
THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas I love this podcast, but I've never heard a podcast have so many audio issues. Audio engineering is part of my job, it sounds like you tried to remove background noise and when this is over done things sound like they are underwater. I would much rather have some background noise than this....it's almost unwatchable....but the content really saves it. Sorry for the tough love guys.....thanks for your time and devotion nonetheless
maybe suggest getting some bass traps in the room aswell guys, its a brick wall so very bouncy and not great for talk
love the show, long may it reign
I will never ever forget the old time fighters and how great they were! Jack Johnson hammerin hank armstrong. 35 fights in a year! Dempsey all of them. Tyson fanatics be damned!
*I never clicked on something faster in my life, love you teddy and Ken!!*
Wow. You guys are the best. I've been waiting 40 years for these insights. Frazier vs Demsey gives me chills. 2 killers. Unbreakable men. Mr. Atlas, bless you.
I wanna see an episode with max kellerman on it!
☝️
Max on boxing meets the Fight with Teddy and bring in The great Jim Lampley.
Emajanashun max is just disrespectful and annoying thinks he know everything. He shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence
he shoots save agreed
@Jb88 Miss his scorecards.
Great stuff guys I think I speak for everyone when I say Ken has become everyone’s next favourite boxing show host. Really, great stuff fellas! All the way from Ireland ❤️🌀
Roy Jones at middleweight might be the best fighter of all time
Defo up there
Carlos Monzon
@@TimmyTurner421 now that would be a tasty one
This is probably pretty close to true if not true
@@TimmyTurner421 no
Prime roy vs prime hagler is one of the greatest mythical matchups ever! I can visualize it in my head but i just cant pick a winner.Hagler was the greatest of one of the best era's-prime roy was supernatural.
Ahhh shit my head hurts lol
Haha ya that would be crazy. I'd have to go with Hagler, no doubt. He gotta be in the top 5 or 10 at least on a list of who has the hardest chin, lol. I think he was only knocked down once in his career. Id have to check that so hold me to it but anyways, Haglers grit is like no other. I remember hearing that he had extra muscles in his head a that why nobody could knock him out.🤷 Thats why I'd go with Hagler without question. Also cuz on skill, they are equal at best. FYI, Hagler is in my top 5 (probably #1) personal favorite boxers of all time so, for me, Hagler definitely has more skill. Call me bias but that my opinion and im stickn to it! Haha
For what happen in the hagler leonard fight then i pick jones in this one
@@who_am_ii Hagler was at the end of it in that fight. Now, remember, they are supposed to both be in their prime.. Hagler ha d every skill offensive a d deffencive and oooonn top of that!..... punching power awwww man,....ITS Hagler all frickn day!
Im sorry!,
But it ain't much of a match up to me.
@@vincentvega6932 jones too fast man
@@who_am_ii he was. But Hagler had fought many dangerous people. And really was never faded by anyone ever. High ring IQ. And determination like no other.. He'll jump in closing the gap on jones with locks n holds while sneaking in hard hits. He'll answer any combo with another and is in better shape any day of the week. He'll figure out Roy even if he has to take a shot to make one or two. Hagler is by faaaarrr a tougher SOB
Hagler had an intangible. He was always in tremendous condition and was a dog in determination.
He had a very close fight with sugar ray who is slower smaller and less powerful with arguably lesser skills theres no way marvin would win
@@Dash-dd1ro that was the last fight of Haglers career. We’re talking about prime early 80s Hagler
@@deandalton8482 yea but it wasn't like he was shot just not what he his and its kit like roy isn't significantly better then sugar if prime sugar was a 5 roy is like 10-15 lol
@@Dash-dd1ro Hagler had slowed down considerably by that stage. That’s the only reason Leonard fought him. My opinion is similar to Teddy’s- Hagler chin allows him weather the storm and catch Roy
@@deandalton8482 man sorry to say but roy jones was probably the best fighter to ever exist and Marvin Hagler was way less skilled then ppl give him credit and much more wild then the older boxing crowd would like too admit I jus think yea what your saying Is possible but unlikely I feel it's much more likely hes completely dazzled by the speed power and reflexes and is left get hit on the outside all night or even getting reckless and running into a fucking thunder bolt from God or in other words a straight right from a prime roy Jones and getting dropped and finished afterwards and its not like marvin didnt get hurt or wobbled cause he did kinda often against guys nobody remembers you know??
Who else is here for Jack Dempsey
When is it?
Ken, please do more of these with Teddy, there's not many people that are still alive or that have the knowledge to give the insight we are getting with these. This is an amazing discussion.
duran would have scared the bejesus out of floyd ,duran beats the daylights out of him no contest
Ray Leonard could outbox Duran but Floyd couldn’t?
@@nickcaesar7650 Exactly. Nobody seems to remember Floyd had an issue with his shoulder which was very obvious vs Castillo in the first one. The second one was a whitewash. I think Floyd wins, but Teddy is entitled to his own opinion.
@@nickcaesar7650 don't forget, Duran out boxed Leonard too. He's the only one who beat Leonard out of the fantastic four.
I think Duran would have slowed Mayweather down with body shots and then knocked Mayweather out, he was that good in his prime.
@@nickcaesar7650 Floyd never would've fought Duran, he would have gone in-and-out of fake retirement and ducked him. He also ain't no prime SRL in Montreal
Marvin Once said...to knock me out your gonna have to take that corner post out and use that coz I ant going out anyother way ...that says it all..
I think Ricky Hatton once said that as well. Maybe that's why Mayweather was lining him up for that check hook from round 2 when they fought...
@@marcsys 🤣🤣 although I'm a Pacquiao fan he did it more impressively...can't stand Mayweather
Super Human Roy at 160. Your premise is that the flaw that he and Ali suffered from past their prime would be exploited when he was an alien by Hagler, who by all measures is great but a mortal. He wasn't a tall southpaw nor tall middleweight which many whispered about early in Roy's career. Give me 20 something RJ, he'd pull back all night long and make it look easy. Hagler wouldn't be able to accept what happened to him and claim he ran. None of his Philadelphia seasoning could prepare him for RJ in his 20's.
@@creditorclass6513 I haven't watched enough of jones to make the comparison...I've watched alot of hagler...I guess it.s because I wasn't a big jones fan...but I'll start watching him early years onwards and make my own mind up...thanks for your input...
marcsys ha ha ha
Like Duran said "I would break all of Floyd's ribs!"
Eric Thompson he damn near killed him the 1st fight tho and 81 other fighters before then
floyd was the one who can break the ribs of bum duran😂😂😂
...... not a bum you dumb fucking casual shut the fuck up
@@pettwaymichael killed who? Leonard lost but it wasn't a mauling. He performed well but fought the wrong fight.
Do a davey Moore on him
Listening to this episode was as magical and whimsical as listening to a bedtime story as a kid. Magic. I love this podcast. Teddy Atlas you are truly a gift. Thank you.
Sounds really bad. Echos. I think it’s the room u guys are in. The conversation is great but very low quality in sound with echos everywhere
Yeah, they need sound deadening material on the walls, even some paintings or some flags or memorabilia hanging will help.
get some bass traps guys, always enjoy the show but the sound is awful in this video
Looks as if they posted the camera sound instead of the mic audio.
Agreed. Certainly sounds like camera audio, or they need a new audio engineer.
Teddy forgets things. Duran lost to Ray Lenard due to him being outboxed, out of frustration he quit! I'm not a fan of Mayweather but what would he do if faced with a boxer like Mayweather?
Duran wasn’t in the same shape in the second as in the first. Leonard knew that would happen because Duran liked party
That speaks to duran's preparation and dedication, no excuses.
The Moment sugar ray stopped fighting duran's fight and just boxed, he won every single time against duran after his first initial loss to him.
Duran was set up by his own manager. King offered Eleta and extra 2 million if he got Duran to fight on a certain date which gave Duran no time to train. Duran didn’t have a fight set up because Cuevas got ko by Hearns. So Duran was enjoying his self and when Eleta told him the date Duran flipped and said I can’t be ready by then. Arcel tried to change the date but King said he would ruin Arcel. They also were talking about fighting at 135 and Duran would have hit Mayweather so hard in the body and wore him down and stopped him later.
I know Teddy is trying his best of offer us insight into how it might go down and love it, but we need a bit of consistency here. In one breath he says how Demsey would be bigger in today's world, but then in another breath he talks about how Demsey is the smaller man and would be quicker, ignoring the fact that if he were bigger and filled out around 200+lbs, he'd also be slower and a bigger target. Similarly, I don't think he gives Floyd enough credit. If we didn't see that Canelo fight, and Canelo was undefeated, in a fantasy match up, we'd all predict Floyd would get absolutely mauled by Canelo who fought bigger men. Floyd struggling against Castillo isn't necessarily the best version of Floyd to face Duran. It's like comparing the Canelo version of Floyd to the Leonard 2 version of Duran. Who's to say Floyd wouldn't frustrate him and get him swinging at plain air, like he did Canelo and Duran wouldn't just say "No Mas" again? There's a bias here to the old timers. As much as Hagler is a legend, styles makes fights and I'd predict Roy Jones dancing around him for a wide UD 12 round decision. If it were 15 rounds, maybe Hagler would catch up to him late.
I hear you sir!.. Man I would love to sit down with a few of you guys (and ladies) to thrash these points out, this is what dreams are made of!..
Great point boxers are more athletic nowadays it's not jus about brute strength
@@cameronstewart6662 yes but the oldtimers where brought up in tougher environments, the mentality of the fighters in those days where different
@@loveboxinglucky1716 i absolutely agree
also floyd was injured in the first fight he schooled castillo the2nd time
Duran vs Pryor would have been an absolute classic savage fight !
Mike Tyson said Pryor vrs Leonard
Duran vs almost everyone Is a mythical matchup
Duran chavez though is excellent. Duran pryor at junior welterweight even better
This episode has to be redone with better quality it’s literally the best topics imaginable and we can’t hear it 😭
Mayweather would get destroyed pre fight, get beaten and knocked out during the fight against Duran IMO. I wouldn't be surprise if Sr. Mayweather beats up Jr back in that day haha. Hey guys thanks so much taking time out in order put this stuff out. I live for it in some ways...
2 minutes in and Teddy starts talking about Jack Johnson, an hour later I'm finally back after going thru a Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey fights black hole, thanks Teddy and Ken
I always look forward to your discussions and Teddy's wisdom. Keep them coming. Thank you.
Great work ken , you are establishing yourself as a well liked and respected commentator amongst the boxing public.
@T Morales clueless
Fighters who make the fight! Who are the aggressor’s, deserve MORE credit!
I think Roy would have played with hagler like Leonard did and wouldn't have caught him but interesting thoughts from atlas
Controversial but always honest
Always fascinating hearing a different perspective from a scholar in the sport and legendary trainer ,analyst,teacher ,philosopher
Learn a lot from listening to him and Ken
You've helped me tremendously to appreciate the great fighters of the day. Great point, and true, they don't get talked about enough. I'm 33, and you've helped my boxing IQ be even better than my dad's, and he's the reason I love 🥊. Thank Teddy
I really enjoy this podcast, thank you so much, you offer an opportunity to imagine these exciting matches with these special fighters in this moment of anxiety in Italy under lockdown
Teddy and Ken thanks for always throwin love to us boxing fans here in the UK-we love you guys too 👊👊👊 and yes a prime duran beats a prime floyd as would sugar ray leonard!
I enjoyed the Mythical Matchup Show, keep up the good work. When y'all get a chance to can do Mike Tyson 🆚 David Tua. Mike Tyson 🆚 James Toney, Mike Tyson 🆚 Earnie Shavers.
How are you gon have duran beating floyd when duran got outboxed by sugar ray
And Wilfredo Benitez
Floyd went life and death with Castillo and Maidana. Duran is better than both those guys combined. Duran is a bad style matchup for Floyd. At 135 it's an extremely close fight but at 147 Floyd wasn't the same as he was at the lower weight classes. Duran wins at 147 hands down.
@@jordancooke5980 life or death doesnt mean loss . floyd still won and he convincingly beat both guys inna rematch so what your saying doesnt even matter
@@jordancooke5980 i know your mad floyd wasnt able to be beat but suck it up hater
@@jordancooke5980 your clearly a fan boy cuz your trying to convince me a guy who has been outboxed and knocked out in their prime can beat a pretty boy floyd 😮
Enjoyed the perspective, especially on Duran, Dempsey and my favorite growing up as a kid - Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Great stuff Teddy great stuff Ken. Loved the Rocky Marciano Jersey Joe breakdown.
Great video I would love to hear Teddy Atlas breaking Andre Ward vs Roy Jones Jr .... Andre Ward vs Joe Calazghe and Ali vs Joe Louis ... Thank you
Ali vs Louis? Easily Ali. Terry said that on at least one occasion. Styles makes fights, and Joe always struggled with boxer that can move, like Billy Conn. Ali would have been a nightmare for him.
Jones was faster than Leonard and more powerful than Hagler at Middleweight. I think if Jones decided to box and stay put of trouble, he wins
Jones operated knees from playing basketball for hours everyday wasn't mentioned either.
Hagler was not in his prime against leonard, and leonrad has basically admitted as much when he said he waited marvin out. Yet, despite being slower and older, hagler still hurt leonard, landed all the meanginful blows and was the tougher guy. He just lacked agile, hand speed and movement at that age, probably cause of the wars with hearns, duran and mugabi. In his prime, hagler could, and would, eventuially land multiple punches on jones and a hurt roy jones did not have the toughness to beat hagler once bhurt.
@@glennbullock1490 as if leonard was an unstoppable prime force when he fought hagler lol leonard fought 9 rounds in the past 5 yrs and was coming off a 3 year layoff and its not like leonard had the reflexes of roy toney has fast hands much faster than hagler and he couldnt do shit to roy but hagler lands multiple punches on him lol no
@@bruh_1627 on what planet does toney have faster hands than a prime hagler? On what planet is toney's lazy ass comparable to hagler? We r talking about prime jones vs prime hagler over 15 rounds. If it were 12 rounds, jones could hide enough to win a close decision, maybe. But over 15 rounds, he is gonna be put to the test. And he aint gonna pass
You bugging leonard wasnt more powerful if he was he wouldnt have had to use all them combinations. And jones didnt have a chin.
Ira Berkow, 'Sports of the Times; The Toughest Man in the World 'NYT, June 4, 1983
"It was 1970, and [Dempsey] was at Madison Square Garden to watch Jimmy Ellis in training for his heavyweight title bout with Joe Frazier.
"Dempsey was then 74 years old. His dark hair had turned gray but was still combed straight back, and his hazel eyes were somewhat rheumy. He looked dignified in dark suit and red sweater.
"I asked him how he would fight Joe Frazier, who had a crouching style. ''Gotta get the man up,'' said Dempsey, pleasantly. He did not raise his right arm off the arm rest, but he made a quick fist and gave an upward snap of the wrist. A slight movement, but it carried an electricity of brute power."
At 135 Floyd was offensively much more like uncle Roger and still had that defensive prowess...I see that fight being a lot like the dejesus fights...where Floyd could win a close decision...
I think Duran would maul Mayweather at 135. Mayweather's hands were brittle at that weightr, and duran was way more relentless than say Jose Castillo. Now, at 140, 147, maybe Mayweather. You know who is a better matchup against duran at 135? Sweet Pea Whitaker. Whitaker was capable of fighting in the pocket, and his body shots were sick. look at his figt against an undefeated julio cesar chaver. late in the fight, whitaker stopped chavez in his tracks with a body shot and started hurting and bossing his around. duran would be tougher to do that to, but whitaker's skill, unorthodic style and body punching could have overcome duran at 135.
@@glennbullock1490 Floyd's hands weren't brittle at lightweight. It's hard to maul someone who isn't in range to be mauled.
Duran lost to Benitez who was a really good defensive fighter but he wasn’t Floyd
That was at 154 pounds though. Duran was a natural 135 pounder.
RealMsantiago RMS This ☝🏽
I’m loving all these excuses for Duran remind me what weight did Mayweather turn pro at again
Tris 87 Don That’s not the issue, though. I’m not saying Floyd didn’t also jump up in weight-I’m saying that the guy that gave Duran problems was a bigger dude; arguably, because Floyd started off at a smaller weight class, too-it’s very unlikely he could actually hurt Duran. (So Benitez isn’t a better boxer than Floyd, but he was a bigger guy who had heavier hands.)
Also, that is not really the Duran we’re talking about, right? Like, that’s not prime Duran.
VicMicable lol Floyd moved up from 130 to 154 so that excuse means nothing. Floyd consistently fought people who out weighed him
Roy Jones at MW vs Marvin Hagler that’s a tough fight. I think Hagler wins because he’s a more skilled boxer and he’s not getting knocked out with that iron chin.
Patrick Bronske he was not more skilled than RJJ, tougher but not more skilled
Haseeb khan arguably but Roy was a physical specimen and Marvin Hagler was the most decided and hard working boxer ever
Jones was knocking good fighters out with one punch in his prime, unless Hagler had an amazing chin i fancy him in this one
speaking as someone who met Frazier several times, i'll say he had alot of heart and one of the greatest left hooks ever, although he was limited in some areas. the only precedent for Frazier losing was the much Bigger Foreman and the Greatest Muhammad ali, whom he defeated. i see the smaller Dempsey going out like Bob Foster did haha Ko'd.....
Dempsey had more of a chin than Foster, and was harder to hit with that bobbing and weaving style. I think it goes 4 rounds with action and knockdowns on both sides, more like Dempsey vs Firpo.
You’re lucky to have meet him.
I’d love to hear Teddy’s take on Floyd Mayweather Jr vs 5 great fighters of the past like Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leanord, Marvin Hagler and 2 others
Absolute treat listening to this
So absorbing ,captivating ,entertaining and educational
Big up
Love and respect from the uk
Thanks so much to this
Teddy is the best ! I could listen to him talk all day .
would love to see floyd vs leonard in their primes.
I'm not much of a comment guy as a matter of fact I don't ever comment on any video but if commenting helps keep this content then I'll do my part. Teddy is in National Treasure will never be another one like him so let's listen while we have the opportunity. It's not just about boxing it's about life it's about knowing yourself it's about behaving the way you're supposed to behave there's so much you can take away from this besides boxing. Ken does a great job playing second microphone. Nobody realizes in radio / podcast how difficult of a job that can be sometimes. Kudos to you both can't forget Rob either Teddy thank you for always telling the truth thank you for behaving like a man in today's world it's becoming harder and harder to find
Hi Teddy greetings from Scotland
Thank you teddy for talkin about the old-school great Fighters spiders that will kill these guy today God if the rain were fighting today Pryor was fighting today Hagler fighting today Leonard fighting today these guys would kill today's Fighters
How about some mythical match ups with the great Sugar Ray Robinson. Some sample opponents:
Roy Jones
James Toney
Julian Jackson
Gerald McClellan
Tommy Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Duran
Or maybe he just beats them all hands down?
This was really cool. :) It's a great way of explaining strategy.
Lets go Ken and Teddy!
Floyd Mayweather JR is one of the most accurate punchers of all time as well in addition to his sensational defense and nearly unmatched stamina. Floyd could also take a punch, even though he didn't need to most of the time. That's why I go with him.
Yea him vs duran would be fucking incredible and i love floyd but thats a pick em fight.
Floyd is also one of the fastest counterpunchers of all time and in my opinion his timing is the best.
I liked the “No Mas.” I’d rather the guy say “no mas” then watch a bad fight.
Another great show (Audio excluded) ..I love these match ups..I have been watching films on fighters for the last 30 years,this wasn't as easy back when i was a kid .... Duran/Mayweather: The outcome of this fight would depend on whether the great Duran could get to Floyd's body..Along with amazing reflexes and ring IQ Floyd possessed amazing footwork..If Duran can get to Mays body he can slow him down...Both men have excellent defense ,so your compubox numbers would be low in connection rate with Duran out punching the craftier Matweather..Floyd had a better straight right hand than he gets credit for ,but Duran would eat it and keep coming..I always have a hard time picking against Legends ..I see this fight 50/50..If Floyd can keep his range and sharp shoot Duran with speed and quickness (Sugar Ray II) he may eek out a split decision,but if Duran gets to that body and makes Floyd trade (Sugar Ray I) then Duran wins a split decision.. Pryor/Duran: In full disclosure I think Pryor in his prime was almost unbeatable , that being said this fight breaks compubox records, Both men had incredible will to win ..Pryor fought at awkward angles similar to Tyson Fury and Billy Joe Saunders BUT Pryor was the much busier fighter and better condition..Duran being the better boxer would probably circle to his left and try to establish the jab to work his way into the body BUT unlike the Mayweather fight Aaron would be more than willing to trade on the inside where Duran could do his damage ,but Pryor being just a hair faster would probably win these exchanges and get out on the angle only to rush back in to the always willing Roberto...Duran not the same puncher he was at Lightweight ,although he could crack at any weight (Barkley) ...I dont usually disagree with Teddy on anything boxing BUT I like Pryor by split decison in this one ,neither man would get KO"d....Hagler/Jones: I really like this match up because Hagler could brawl and box ,lets keep in mind this is the Hagler that fought Vito Antifermo (prime) ...Hagler sometimes struggled against good crafty boxers (Seales,) ,but this could be lack of focus NOT so much style..Against Jones that fire would be there...Jones lighting quick at middleweight with decent pop in both hands..Hagler had a GREAT chin and would surely be able to handle anything Jones threw at him BUT Jones had great footwork and reflexes ,which gave Hagler fits ..This is prime Jones , at the end of Roy's career his reflexes did him in much like we are seeing with Gamboa now..When a fighter has God given reflexes with speed and power they generally dont develop proper defense..But in the end I like Roy by a very tough Unanimous decision , based on his speed ,reflexes and footwork ...Of course when we are talking about Legends every fight is a 50/50, so basically we are discussing STYLES ...Like they say "Styles make fights"
Yo, you know your stuff brother. Your take on duran and mayweather spot on, only thing i would add is that mayweATHER AT 135 HAD BRITTLE HANDS. Duran may have just mauled him at 135. At 140, 147, i would give mayweather to slight edge. The further duran got saway from 135, the less he became. Your take on duran pryor is spot on. best fight that never happened. Lastly, I would slightly disagree with ur take on jones, hagler. Prime hagler was hagler from minter fight to hearns fight. prime roy was the one who beat (but not dominantly) hopkins and made toney (who was notoriously lazy) look bad. Hagler's greatness was in his all around ability, he had no true weakness. The destruct and destroy hagler from 1980 to 1985 also decide to knock all his opponents out. The winner of this fight may depend on the fights distance. at 12 rounds, hagler may not have enough time to break jones down. Jones would have the edge. maybe clsoe majority decision. But 15 rounds, forget it! Hagler knocks him out.
Glenn Bullock you definitely know your stuff ..great analysis
floyd was so good defensively, he hardly ever got hit. The few shots he took had him wobbling. Duran would of tko floyd
Floyd could take a punch and come back from it, unlike most fighters.
Great vid couldn’t wait for this
Great discussion. noting what weight class these matchups were at would be a plus
Amazing analysis..Rocky and Jersey Joe..Thx
Hagler was pelted w/ bottles in Britain, soon as he won the title from Minter.right, Teddy. he had everything tough. whereas, Roy in his prime didn't have a great MW division. Hill, Toney, Bhop, and an out of shape McCallum were the best he faced. not being tested before Hagler is winging it.
Teddy has a brilliant boxing mind and a brilliant mind on human character. He also really educates the audience well on the difference on why the general boxing fan attitude that the "older" era fighters were supposedly inferior to the modern era or current era fighters is wrong. Dempsey is probably the best example of a fighter from the far past who could have been very successful today or say in the 1970's. Great choices on the matchups. I agreed on each assessment.
A great size comparison between a small Heavyweight of old vs a modern day Heavyweight is Dempsey vs Willard. 6' 182 vs 6'6" 245. Dempsey murdered Willard.
No fighter in history could have beaten the ferocious animal Jack Dempsey that night.
At 135 lb I like Duran at 140 lb I like Pryor
What a bummer the audio is so broken
Thanks Teddy! You are a great boxing mind . Who do think wins between Tyson vs Tua and Duran vs Chavez SR ?
All I’ll say is Mayweather at 130-135 was knocking top dudes out on the regularity really don’t see Duran beating him, but Mayweather is one of the few fighters in history I think Duran wouldn’t beat at lightweight.
Roberto Duran versus:
Henry Armstrong;
Ray Robinson;
Carmen Basilio;
Jake La Motta;
Stanley Ketchel;
Julio Caesar Chavez;
Kostya Tszyu;
Ricky Hatton;
Vasyl Lomachenko.
Audio problem here?....
Mayweather vs Duran is an all time barn burner @135
Floyd had more pop on his punches and 135 was more his natural weight. Despite all that I think Duran edges him in a spilt decision for all the points Teddy made.
At 147 Floyd UD Duran for the same reasons Duran said no mas. The weight slowed Duran just a tad and an in shape mayweather does enough to probably win 115-113 with effective punching.
This is from a die hard Floyd fan. But remember when you ask his uncle Rodger, Rodger will tell you about Hands of Stone.
I don't think the fight @135 would be close.
Duran would be too much at that weight class for anyone not named Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Henry Armstrong, or possibly Ike Williams.
Floyd had more pop on his punches compared to Duran at Lightweight? I don't think so. Duran wasn't named Hands of Feathers. Floyd only fought 3 guys at Lightweight (Castillo 2X's, Sosa, Ndou) - and he only stopped the defensively suspect Ndou. I also think that the Duran that fought & beat Leonard in their 1st fight also beats Mayweather @147, but the rematch version and the Jr. Middleweight version of Duran loses to Mayweather by a good amount.
TainoMantis I said Floyd had more pop on his punches at 135. That’s a fact. No where did I state he hit harder than Duran.
A lot of people even folks like Dan Rafael who despise Floyd have said at 130 he might be the best ever in that weight class 🤷🏿♂️
I think Duran wins south of 147 but Floyd isn’t Leonard. He wouldn’t have been dumb enough to engage the way sugar did in the fire fight. I do agree with your assessment above 147.
@@Drummajortsu Oh my bad, yeah, Floyd did have more power down in those lower weights. I think most fighters that start in stable lower weight classes also have more power. Even someone that had less power than Floyd (but was another defensive genius) - Pernell Whitaker, also had most of his KOs in the lower weight classes.
At 130, Floyd would definitely be in the mix, but unfortunately you had monsters like Henry Armstrong, Alexis Arguello, Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. (who TKO'd Roger Mayweather in 2 rounds), Kid Chocolate, Azumah Nelson, and a 130Lb version of Pacquiao.
"I think Duran wins south of 147 but Floyd isn’t Leonard. He wouldn’t have been dumb enough to engage the way sugar did in the fire fight" .
That's just it. It doesn't matter what you want to do or what you don't want to do. At 135Lbs, the only way to beat Duran was to match him in terms of A-level power counters from mid-range, throw lots of jabs & punches, and nullify his inside-fighting ability. Floyd wouldn't have been able to do any of these things - as Floyd never had a high punch output & he would have immediately get on the defensive. Floyd was never on the level of a Leonard (offense, volume, or power). Duran would have taken away Floyd's spacing (inside-fighting) & timing (feints, slips, ducks, rolls, and counters). I mean, a flat footed, awkward Maidana actually stunned Floyd in their rematch. Maidana couldn't hold Duran's jockstrap in 100 years.
TainoMantis Really strong analysis. To play on Rodger Mayweathers words no one can say “you don’t know s*it about boxing”
Speaking of Rodger that beating he took at the hands of Chavez senior and the loss he took to Sweat Pea is why he made his nephew Floyd focus more on defense after taking over from Floyd senior.
How do you think Whitaker does vs Duran? I think it looks a lot like Pryor vs Alexis but switched. I could see Duran taking over early but sweat pea putting it together midway through the fight and edging Duran late.
In a 12 round fight it’s dicey but 14 round fight, I feel Sweatpea would have never lost a fight.
@@Drummajortsu I'll be honest. I like Whitaker to do a lot more things to Duran than Mayweather Jr. at 135Lbs. And the prime reason is punch volume. While Duran wouldn't have respected Sweet Pea's power, Sweet Pea would have thrown enough punches from the outside & midrange to frustrate Duran a lot. The problem is going to be (in an old school 15 round fight), how long can Sweet Pea keep it up. Also, Duran's infighting was a problem over a whole fight. That's a lot of pressure, and punches to the arms, hips, and ribs he would have taken over 10-15 rounds. Duran, also - wasn't an idiot in ring IQ. The guy was always 4 - 5 moves ahead, wasn't as easy to hit as you think. Check out this defensive highlight:
ua-cam.com/video/5H237KkHe74/v-deo.html
I think Benny Leonard would have beaten Duran at 135Lbs because: 1) He would have matched him from the outside & midrange 2) He would have blasted Duran occasionally with power (something overlooked in B. Leonard's arsenal) and 3) He would have neutralized Duran's in-fighting.
I think Joe Gans would have beaten (maybe even stopped) Duran because everything Duran did...Gans did better.
Ike Williams was another one of those devastating boxer-punchers that could put you to sleep if you make one little mistake. Duran vs Williams would have been a crazy, edge of your seat fight.
Young Duran was the best
yound durAN vs aaron pryor at 140 may have been the best fight ever.
2nd Comment: Hagler was special. With that, the most athletic and intelligent fighter he faced was Sugar Ray. Compound that athleticism by X factor, and you have Roy in his prime. Unlikely (IMO) that Hagler (or anyone) has the ability to "catch" a prime Roy, unless Roy willingly opened himself up to an exchange. Much different result than Roy's mishaps of being caught by Tarver and Johnson (amongst others) after reducing from Heavyweight. Roy by unanimous decision.
You act like the leonard fight wasn't at the END of Haglers career. Roy has to fight prime hagler prime hagler was from 81' to about 84. Marvin was three yrs past his prime when he fought leonard.
Yeah, but hagler was also special. Quick, name another fighter who was better at more things than hagler.
box, punch, switch, fight backwards, forewards, sideways, iron chin, iron body, great stamina, better than average speed and quickness (in his prime), better than average power in both hands from both sides, no true weakness. We know Roy's weaknesses (chin, resilency, toughness). Just saying.
You people keep holding the ARL fight against Hagler. Hagler was past his prime in that fight, just like Roy Jones was past his prime vs tarver. Could roy jones have stopped the hagler who came lookin to kill tommy hearns? I dont think so. Destruct and Destroy Hagler (1980 to end of hearns fight) beats RJJ. Yes, Roy beats the Hagler who fought Leonard. But the fight would still be competetive cause hagler was so great.
Hagler was 33-34 when when he retired. Suggesting he was beyond his prime is borderline ridiculous. He wasn't 25, but he wasn't 45 either. He was an intelligent, strong and skillful pressure fighter, with excellent timing... Those tangibles alone could've lasted him for a few more years, easily. Adding the intangible ring intelligence, and you never know. He was no more beyond his prime against Leonard, than Leonard was against him... And it's far more arguable that Leonard was beyond his prime, but just had a hell of a night... Like Teddy says, he brought it back...
@@nitty100He also had 60+ fights under his belt and was fresh off from two wars with Hearns and Mugabe. Leonard in actuality was in much better condition compared to Hagler he also secretly had unsanctioned fights to get rid of his three year ring rust. Hagler slowed down considerably due to the slug fests and didn't posses any footwork. The fact that the fight was really close showcased how dangerous Hagler is when he was in his prime. Roy had a sus jaw and couldn't finish Bernard so how is he going to hurt the granite chined Hagler? Hagler was also a much better pugilist compared to Jones. Hagler win this by KO.
GREAT list, but . . . Gene Tunney and Jack Dempsey fought 30 rounds total in their 2 fights. Tunney won 29/30, according to the judges and referees who scored each fight. He won both Dempsey fights, one as challenger and one as champ, by unanimous decision. Tunney finished his career 65-1-1. His only loss, ever, was in his first of five matches against Harry Greb, 4 years before he won the heavyweight championship. In the interim he fought Greb four more times, had 3 wins and 1 draw. He retired as heavyweight champion. So Demspey vs. Frazier would have been amazing to watch, but Tunney vs. Louis, or Tunney v. Ali, or Tunney v. Liston, would have been better, in my opinion.
1st comment: A great fighter who's shown, even by exception, to be less than fully mentally and/or physically prepared, has that in the back of their mind. Duran has shown those exceptions; while Mayweather, has not. He has been the epitome of mental and physical preparedness in all ~49 of his professional fights (obviously excluding McGregor). Mayweather by "no mas".
Joe Frazier Statue in Philly is definite must. And so is a Marvellous, Marvin Hagler statue in Brockton next to Marciano would be great also and a must do.
pryor duran would be an incredible match up. Cannot seem to be the winner. Probably the greatest matchup you can make.
Ken: “Marvelous Marvin Hagler v. Roy Jones Jr.”
Teddy: “Great fight. Let me tell ya about Rocky Marciano….” 😂😂
I love you guys. Keep up the great work!
Tough fight last night, keep your heads up brothers
Good stuff guys
I'd love teddy to give his opinion on some match ups i wish we got back than:
Hearns vs benn
Saad muhammad vs holyfield
Mcclellan vs toney
Hagler vs toney
Duran vs pryor
Teddy! What’s your definition of a fighter? Someone that overcomes! You can’t can’t can’t sweep Durans “no mas” under the carpet like that. Call it how it is when it comes to those old fighters too
Thats horsecrap, anyone can be ill enough to not be able to perform on any given night. Duran would have beat him. The best fight I ever saw was Hagler vs. Duran.
This was a fascinating podcast but I don;t agree about Roy Jones. I can't remember anyone even seriously testing him before he fought Ruiz so, as marvellous as Hagler was, can't agree that he'd knock him out. Plus he'd be a totally different test. I would actually have been more intersted to know Teddy's opinion on Hagler/Monzon.
Let's not forget that Duran was the fighter of the 70s and in 1980 when he moved up to become part of the four kings he was already 32 which in those days was an old man for a boxer.he would have battered Floyd in a 15 round fight and no way it goes the distance
If Duran retired after the 1st Leonard fight he goes down as the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time! He stepped up in weight & beat Leonard, out thinking him & forcing him to fight his fight. The sham of the 2nd fight when a bloated Duran cut weight wrong should have never happed when it did. He had proved everything & should have stepped away, either for good or for an extended time.
Terrible sound quality. Annoying!
I disagree with Teddy on the heavyweight talk... If Dempsey & Marciano fought heavier than 187-195 they'd of not of been as good as they were... Small men trained down small as possible to be as fast as possible and conditioned as possible to throw non-stop punches for 15 rounds if necessary... If they fought 200-220 pounds, forget it... They just wouldn't have the same tenacity and ability
Tyson 5 foot 9 at best and 212lbs
Out of all of these great fights being mentioned I still rate Duran vs Pryor being the fight of the night. That would just be an incredible fight. Teddy Atlas’s addressed that fight bang on the mark for me. But let’s be honest. Nobody wanted any part of Pryor. The man was a Honey badger and you never come out in a fight with a honey badger unscathed. Pryor was a scalp all fighters of his era would have liked to have had but the risk was very very high with low money rewards unfortunately. No one wanted Pryor he was just to much of a savage, an animal a whirl wind hurricane.
I'm curious to hear how you think Marciano would do in some of these mythical match ups. That Dempsey vs Frazier one really whet my appetite.
respect but Floyd would have embarrassed Roberto unless Duran got Mayweather to fight outside of his style which Floyd just never would allow so I see it as Floyd making him miss all night and catching him with clean counters and stopping Duran late 13 - 15 round when Duran would be gassed from his work rate and missing so many punches.To me it comes down to the mental game and Duran famously broke under the mental pressure against Leonard whereas Floyd always elevated under the pressure of big moments. Also i just dont think Duran could just decide not to let Floyd not counter him. I mean Floyd is a mastermind boxer and the idea that Duran is just going to negate that is some of the dumbest shit ive ever heard teddy say. ai mean teddy really is reaching with that and you can tell he gives Mayweather almost no credit for his boxing because he doesnt like the guy or his style.
Finally some ol school stuff!!!
1.Duran would beat Floyd at 135 any time.
2. Duran stops pryor.
3. No one beats Joe Frazier when he is in his ritham except of Ali. But he is a slow starter. I think he beats Dempsey.
Pernell Whitaker vs Aarron Pryor who wins.
Wonderful show!
Thank you, gentlemen!
I knew Jack Dempsey, had the honour to call him friend, from a little after my seventh birthday until his death when I was seventeen.
He was a wonderful human being and tremendously kind to me and my family. He was The Champ!
Teddy Atlas spoke a lot of sense with some of his comments, unusual for modern trainers.
Jack was a fan of Joe Frazier and used to attend his fights, he liked Joe's work, thought him a little one dimensional. He was very fond of Floyd Patterson, too.
He told me he liked Liston, too, but stopped watching him because of some criminal elements around him and Clay, too.
Jack had a top ten list of heavies, but, ever humble he left himself out. His number 1 was Jim Jeffries. He openly admitted that Jeffries would have beaten him. Many of his top ten had never owned the HW title.
Teddy, I must disagree about the draw. I see Jack dispose of Joe within two rounds, before Joe had even woken up, as he would have Lennox Lewis.
U remember the other 9 he mentioned?
I’m not sure why certain boxing fans like Ken talk about Roy coming down in weight as the principle reason for his loss to Tarver in 2003. When that was their second fight, and Jones had initially fought Tarver before he even moved up in weight to fight Ruiz. And in that fight Roy looked ordinary and was lucky to get the decision!
if i ever pick against teddy, i'd hate to have a big bet on it, because this man has an incredible x-ray vision into how these things turn out and i'm not even over stating that. He has crazy insight into was is and how things would turn out, and has proven this time an again. teddy is the name of my pug dog! how crazy is that?
Very interesting broadcast. But please, do something with the awful audio!
I GO WITH TEDDY'S CLOSE DURAN'S PICK OVER THE HAWK. AND HIS ANALYSIS & REASONS WHY IN HIS ASSESSMENTS. HE'S A GREAT BOXING MIND.
Fight wasn't tough with Castillo...it was close. And if weightcutting and chasing Leonard wore Duran out....what would you think would happen chasing Floyd?
Duran vs Mayweather, I take Duran. Sugar Ray beat him with like lateral movement and being a nuisance. But Sugar Ray lost when he tried to stand there and trade or parry. I don't think Floyd would keep the pace he would need to before he succumbs to Durans overwhelming barrages.
Floyd slows the pace down in his fights. That's why most guys he fights throw less than they normally throw. Floyd would know he needs to control the pace against Duran.
WTF? No word about the crazy Slugfest between GGG and Derevyanchenko?
Btw. The Sound is crap
That's gonna be for the podcast. This was their side series thing where they strictly talk about the mythical matchups.
My grandpa taught me about Jack Dempsey. Tough tough tough.
Me and Ken are on the same wave length. This was entertaining to say the least lol....
a better fantasy matchup would be hagler vs monzon. I think most of us here agree that roy jones lacked toughness and a chin, and that both would be fatal problems against a non stop fighting machine like hagler, despite roy's gifts. Monzon on the other hand was a beast! Can teddy do a hagler monzon review.